Browse content similar to Britain's Equal Pay Scandal. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Every day, Britain's discovering
just how much more men | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
are earning than women. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
The gender pay gap's been
revealed at hundreds... | 0:00:11 | 0:00:14 | |
Female employees earning up
to 43% less than male | 0:00:14 | 0:00:20 | |
employees at Barclays. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:21 | |
Nearly 50 years after equal pay
became the law, could this be | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
the year that things finally change? | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
We're not little ladies any more,
we do just as much hard work. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
Chanting "What do we want?
Equal pay! | 0:00:30 | 0:00:32 | |
When do we want it?
Now". | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
The BBC, my own employer, has found
itself at the centre of the row. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
I felt somebody had to do it,
somebody had to call management out. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
When you're in a talent business,
there are many, many reasons | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
as to why people might be
paid slightly differently. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:50 | |
Now I'm off around the country,
and beyond, to find out what's | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
behind Britain's Equal Pay Scandal. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:56 | |
The glitzy enclave of Monaco might
seem an unlikely place to begin | 0:01:11 | 0:01:13 | |
a story about equal pay in Britain. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:20 | |
I've come to Monte Carlo,
to meet someone who wants to speak | 0:01:20 | 0:01:25 | |
to me about the BBC and equal pay. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
She's a world famous sports star
and she's spent years | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
appearing on the BBC. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:35 | |
The BBC reveals the pay
of its top stars. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
Of the list of 96 best paid,
only a third are women | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
and the top seven are all men. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:45 | |
Guest of honour here at a sports
awards, but she isn't one | 0:01:45 | 0:01:49 | |
of the BBC's best paid stars... | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
Martina Navratilova. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:55 | |
I left my country,
which was a totally terror regime, | 0:01:55 | 0:02:03 | |
Czech Republic, communist country -
I left that country | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
because I couldn't speak out,
so I'm speaking out because it | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
affects so many, so many
women across the board. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
The BBC's published one
tennis pundit's pay. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:19 | |
John McEnroe is getting £150-200,000
for his Wimbledon fortnight. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
Good evening to you,
I'm looking forward to discussing | 0:02:22 | 0:02:24 | |
and dissecting this match. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:25 | |
We're going to... | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
His earnings were news to his fellow
Wimbledon commentator, | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
Martina Navratilova. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:32 | |
It's hard to really compare exactly,
because some people work | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
a little longer days,
maybe fewer or more | 0:02:35 | 0:02:36 | |
programmes, whatever. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:40 | |
But overall, it was a shock
because John McEnroe | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
makes at least £150,000. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:49 | |
I get about £15,000 for Wimbledon,
and unless John McEnroe's doing | 0:02:49 | 0:02:54 | |
a whole bunch of stuff
outside of Wimbledon, | 0:02:54 | 0:02:56 | |
he's getting at least ten times
as much money. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
Ten times? | 0:02:59 | 0:03:00 | |
For very comparable
work, so, yeah... | 0:03:00 | 0:03:01 | |
At the moment, that's what I know. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
How do you feel about that? | 0:03:03 | 0:03:04 | |
Not happy, needless to say. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:06 | |
I mean, it's shocking. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
It's extremely unfair and it
makes me angry for the other women | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
that I think go through this. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:20 | |
The BBC might say, well
John McEnroe does more hours | 0:03:20 | 0:03:23 | |
or he's on air longer. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:24 | |
Ten times as much? | 0:03:24 | 0:03:25 | |
I don't think so. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:26 | |
Commentator: And the
dream has come true! | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
A pioneer, an activist, an icon... | 0:03:28 | 0:03:32 | |
Martina Navratilova
has won Wimbledon more | 0:03:32 | 0:03:37 | |
times than John McEnroe. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:41 | |
As a pundit, last year Panorama
estimates he made about three | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
times as many appearances
during the tournament as she did. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:46 | |
You cannot be serious, man,
you cannot be serious! | 0:03:46 | 0:03:53 | |
Did you ever say to theBBC,
"Am I earning a comparable amount | 0:03:53 | 0:03:56 | |
to a man doing a similar job?" | 0:03:56 | 0:03:57 | |
Absolutely, and we were told yes,
I was getting a compatible amount, | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
so we were not told the truth. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:02 | |
That's for sure. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:09 | |
Because it's 50 years now
since the Equal Pay Act in Britain. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
Wow. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:13 | |
Yeah, 50 years since equal pay. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:14 | |
So it's the law! | 0:04:14 | 0:04:15 | |
And BBC is a public corporation. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
Yeah, they've got to do better. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:18 | |
Bbc sport told Panorama the two
pundits are simply not compatible. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:23 | |
John McEnroe is contracted to be
on call throughout the tournament. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
His role is of a different scale,
scope and time commitment | 0:04:26 | 0:04:29 | |
to Martina Navratilova. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
# I want to spend my life
with a girl like you...#. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:40 | |
The fight for equal pay in Britain
is as old as this Ford Cortina. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:44 | |
Made in Dagenham, the same year that
women's sewing machinists here went | 0:04:44 | 0:04:47 | |
on strike to establish
they were as skilled as the men | 0:04:47 | 0:04:49 | |
and should be paid the same. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
How far are you prepared to go
in striking to insist | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
on being skilled labour? | 0:04:53 | 0:04:54 | |
As far as it takes. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:56 | |
It seems incredible that it's
50 years since women | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
here at Ford Dagenham fought
for equal pay. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
That's half a century, and women
across britain are still fighting. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
Do you believe in
this women's strike? | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
No, I don't, they should
get the same as lads. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:09 | |
You don't believe in equal pay? | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
No, no, no. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
The Ford women were laughed
at when they demanded their rights | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
and equal pay, but they united,
fought back and took | 0:05:17 | 0:05:19 | |
their case to Parliament. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:25 | |
Our legislation will provide,
therefore, that by the end of 1975, | 0:05:25 | 0:05:30 | |
it will at last be illegal
to discriminate against | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
women in rates of pay. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:41 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:05:41 | 0:05:49 | |
The Equal Pay Act
established that women and men must | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
be paid equally for equal work,
even if the jobs are different. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:58 | |
But how you establish
that is complicated, and, | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
to this day, it's been
open to argument. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:02 | |
4000 women have taken the region's
biggest council to an employment | 0:06:02 | 0:06:05 | |
tribunal in a fight to get the same
pay as men. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
I'm on my way to Birmingham,
this city at the centre | 0:06:08 | 0:06:10 | |
of a landmark case. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:11 | |
It was here a decade ago
the principle of equal pay for work | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
of equal value was established. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
Women council workers,
carers and cleaners argued | 0:06:16 | 0:06:17 | |
they should be paid the same
as binmen and they won. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
It's been three years
in the planning, hasn't it? | 0:06:20 | 0:06:22 | |
We've been trying to get it
through and it's a milestone | 0:06:22 | 0:06:29 | |
for all the ladies who work
for Birmingham City Council. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
Jobs that were done predominantly
by men were getting generally bonus | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
payments that were substantially
greater than the women were... | 0:06:34 | 0:06:36 | |
I mean, the women didn't get any
bonuses, so they had men | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
and women on the same grade,
where the men were getting 100-200% | 0:06:39 | 0:06:42 | |
more than the women for jobs that
were rated as equivalent. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:46 | |
Winning their equal pay case meant
six years' backpay for the women. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
It cost Birmingham Council
more than £1 billion. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:56 | |
It had to sell off
the National Exhibition Centre. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:03 | |
I was at the opening of the NEC
when the Queen came, | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
back in the '70s, and to see it
being sold off was a very | 0:07:05 | 0:07:09 | |
sad day in my life. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:10 | |
Do you think that people
realise how expensive, | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
how ruinous - potentially -
equal pay cases could be | 0:07:12 | 0:07:14 | |
across the country? | 0:07:14 | 0:07:19 | |
No I don't, no I don't,
and I don't think that we really | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
have started to see the full
ramifications of | 0:07:23 | 0:07:24 | |
the equal pay claims. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:26 | |
Councils would say that you're
an ambulance chaser, | 0:07:26 | 0:07:28 | |
you're making a lot of money out
of these equal pay cases | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
and councils are suffering
and services are suffering, | 0:07:31 | 0:07:33 | |
and you're making money. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:39 | |
Well, I'll only make money if I win
and I don't get paid until I win. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:43 | |
And you've won quite a lot of cases? | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
Well, then I'm good at what I do. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
Chanting: "Equal pay
or we walk away!" | 0:07:49 | 0:07:54 | |
Glasgow council workers mark 100
years since the suffragettes won | 0:07:54 | 0:07:56 | |
women the right to vote. | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
These women, cleaners and carers,
have also been fighting for more | 0:07:59 | 0:08:01 | |
than ten years to be paid the same
as street sweepers and binmen. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:09 | |
We're still fighting in Glasgow,
as we were in Birmingham. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
It's like deja vu all over again. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:14 | |
They fought the litigation,
the cases were resolved, | 0:08:14 | 0:08:19 | |
they changed their pay system,
we have to sue them all over again. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
Amongst the glasgow protesters
was Amanda Green, a home carer. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:29 | |
It's just quite sad that the women
risked their lives back then | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
for voting, and I think
they would be very disappointed | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
if they knew it was happening today,
that women were still doing the same | 0:08:34 | 0:08:38 | |
stuff and trying to fight for equal
pay against a man. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
Days later, as snow brought
the city to a standstill, | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
Amanda was preparing to go out
in subzero temperatures. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:49 | |
She walks five miles daily to care
for 15 housebound people. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:57 | |
We work with machinery,
we're going to people who have | 0:08:57 | 0:08:59 | |
dementia and that is a hard job. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
We're sort of like counsellors,
you could say, just trying | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
to make them feel better. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
Some people don't even have
family, so we're the only | 0:09:07 | 0:09:08 | |
people that they see. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:10 | |
Does anybody want a cup
of tea or coffee? | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
All the women in this
family are carers. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:19 | |
Amanda, her mother Nancy
and sister Samantha. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:21 | |
Nancy's been involved in the equal
pay fight right from the start. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:25 | |
The money must be there
because they found the money | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
for the gentlemen, how are they not
finding the money for the ladies? | 0:09:28 | 0:09:33 | |
Nancy's husband, Michael,
used to be a bin man - | 0:09:33 | 0:09:36 | |
the very job she thinks is of equal
value to hers. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:40 | |
Nancy used to work 50-60 hours
a week, just to get a decent wage. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:45 | |
And I worked for another council
and I could work a lot less hours | 0:09:45 | 0:09:49 | |
and still bring home more money. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:50 | |
It's terrible. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:54 | |
I'm staying with my
mum and dad, I'm 26. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:58 | |
I am trying to save for a house,
and I've been saving up | 0:09:58 | 0:10:05 | |
up but if I had more,
like obviously the same money | 0:10:05 | 0:10:13 | |
that the men were getting,
then that meant that | 0:10:14 | 0:10:16 | |
I could have been saving more,
I could have bought a house quicker. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
The women say the Labour council
and the trades unions fought | 0:10:20 | 0:10:25 | |
against their equal pay claim
for years, but now the SNP | 0:10:25 | 0:10:33 | |
is running Glasgow City Hall
and the mood has changed. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
But there's no deal, yet. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:43 | |
I've come to meet the leader
of Glasgow City Council; a woman. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
She was elected last year
on a pledge to put right the equal | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
pay issues facing the city. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:50 | |
The spectre's been raised,
Glasgow could face a bill | 0:10:50 | 0:10:52 | |
of half a billion pounds,
that could impact services and mean | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
selling off valuable property. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:56 | |
Essentially the message that has
been given to these women doing | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
these essential jobs is, "You don't
matter as much as buildings". | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
I believe that the historic assets
glasgow owns are phenomenally | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
important for this city,
and we will do everything to avoid | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
having to sell them off. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:07 | |
We need to do the right thing
by our women workers. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:10 | |
It's going to be a difficult
process and the resolution | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
is going to be difficult,
but difficult isn't an excuse. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:16 | |
Across the country, now
the principle of equal pay for equal | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
value has been established
in the public sector, | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
women in the private
sector want the same. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:27 | |
Because everything is on show
and easy to reach, housewives | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
are finding shopping easier,
quicker and more convenient. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:33 | |
This year, the supermarkets
are strongly contesting | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
multi-billion pound lawsuits. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:42 | |
I met up with Linda Wong,
a lawyer based in Manchester, | 0:11:42 | 0:11:44 | |
who's handling 20,000 claims
by women against | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
their employer, Asda. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:49 | |
It's massive. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
Asda is the largest private-sector
equal pay claim that's been | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
brought in UK history. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
Tesco is currently following
suit and in Sainsbury's | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
it's over 1000 people. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:02 | |
But this could cripple
the supermarkets, the costs | 0:12:02 | 0:12:04 | |
involved, thousands
and thousands of cases? | 0:12:04 | 0:12:05 | |
Yes, there is a potential
fiscal liability to them, | 0:12:05 | 0:12:07 | |
but you've got to balance that
with the fact that these women have | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
been underpaid for years. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
One of Linda's clients worked
for 16 years on the tills | 0:12:14 | 0:12:18 | |
and displays at Sainsbury's,
jobs mostly done by women. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:22 | |
Christine Trenchard says
she was underpaid compared | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
to workers in distribution,
jobs mostly done by men. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:30 | |
We were on less than
what the blokes, the men were, yeah. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
My maximum wage is £8.50,
and I believe theirs this | 0:12:34 | 0:12:37 | |
possibly £12 an hour. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:38 | |
So that's a £4 difference. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:39 | |
Yeah, yeah. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
What do you say to people who say
this could be very expensive | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
for the supermarkets,
if all these women win | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
their legal claims? | 0:12:46 | 0:12:48 | |
Should have thought of that. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:52 | |
Sorry, but at the end of the day
we're all employed by the same | 0:12:52 | 0:12:55 | |
people and we're all worthy
of the same wage. | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
Why should men get more
money than what we do? | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
The information Linda gets
from Christine about her job will be | 0:13:01 | 0:13:04 | |
used by independent assessors
to decide if it's of | 0:13:04 | 0:13:06 | |
the same value as a job
in storage and distribution. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:13 | |
There is a common misconception that
shop floor work is simple | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
because you are just replenishing
shelves and distribution work | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
is more difficult because they're
working in difficult conditions | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
and it's hazardous. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
When you're looking at the concept
of equal value, you will look at, | 0:13:27 | 0:13:30 | |
yes, conditions of work,
but so many other factors will be | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
taken into consideration. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:37 | |
Maybe some thought should be put
to all of the other things that go | 0:13:37 | 0:13:41 | |
on on the shop floor,
aside from the shelf stacking, | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
because they deal with customers. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:44 | |
They have do assess age restriction
items, whether they can sell knives | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
or alcohol to people,
that's not easy. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:53 | |
I'm not doing it for myself, for
money, I'm doing it for principle. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:57 | |
We had Dagenham 50 years ago, where
they were fighting for equal pay. | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
I don't want my daughters,
or my granddaughter that's due, | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
in 50 years' time to be
fighting the same. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
It's 2018. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
Sainsbury's told us... | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
I think what's happening
within these supermarkets | 0:14:20 | 0:14:24 | |
in particular is that you're really
seeing how far the hype | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
around equal pay has gone. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
That people are claiming gender
discrimination by not even | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
comparing jobs like-for-like,
but comparing their job | 0:14:34 | 0:14:35 | |
to a completely different role. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
The costs to supermarkets could be
huge and very detrimental. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
Who is the knock-on effect really
going to hurt and my suspicion | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
is that it would hit the employees
of these companies. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:49 | |
These jobs are now at threat. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:52 | |
Achieving equal pay takes
more than lawsuits. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
It requires changing
the British workplace, | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
by being more open about staff pay. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
That is why the government is making
all organisations with more than 250 | 0:15:01 | 0:15:05 | |
employees publish their average wage
difference between the sexes. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:10 | |
It is called the gender pay gap. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:14 | |
Nationally, on average, men
are being paid 18% more than women. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:19 | |
But the gap is far higher
in places like the city. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:23 | |
Dominated by top earning males. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
At Barclays, it is 48%
and at HSBC, it is 59%. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:33 | |
And then there is the airlines. | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
Thousands of girls in Britain
want to be air hostesses. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:40 | |
It is one of the world's
top glamour jobs. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:48 | |
But you have certainly got to be
a top flight charmer to win a top | 0:15:50 | 0:15:54 | |
airline personality contest. | 0:15:54 | 0:15:55 | |
This was the traditional image
of women in the skies. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
And change is proving
a slow process. | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
The winner was to be presented
with a brand-new car. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
And actor Edward Woodward,
TV's Callan, was there to hand over | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
the keys to the lucky girl. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:05 | |
We are going to Lisbon today. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
# Come fly with me. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
# Let's fly... | 0:16:09 | 0:16:10 | |
Marnie Munns is one
of easyJet's female pilots, | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
but there aren't enough like her. | 0:16:12 | 0:16:14 | |
EasyJet has a high gender pay gap,
over 50%, because most | 0:16:14 | 0:16:19 | |
of their pilots are men. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:21 | |
And they are the best paid
employees, so there is a big gap | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
across the company between what men
and women earn. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
EasyJet is trying to
train more Marnies. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:33 | |
The original female intake was 6%. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:35 | |
We then decided to double
the figures from six | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
to 12% in two years. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
We would like to recruit 20% by 2020
and that is what we are aiming for. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:45 | |
At the moment, we are
on target to do that. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:47 | |
But 20% is not 50%, half and half,
men and women, is that enough? | 0:16:47 | 0:16:51 | |
It is not 50% but it is a start
and 20% and we are going to be | 0:16:51 | 0:16:55 | |
looking at other ways that we can
increase that, but we have | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
got to start somewhere
and it is going to take time. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:02 | |
EasyJet's new male boss has taken
a pay cut to match his female | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
predecessors' earnings. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
But it will take years and a change
in culture and attitudes | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
to reduce the gender pay gap
across all industries. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:16 | |
In the time that I hope that
I retire, we are going to try | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
and normalise seeing a woman pilot
or a female pilot, so that | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
eventually, this will be
a completely normal image. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
# Pack up, let's fly away! | 0:17:25 | 0:17:31 | |
But the gender pay gap figures
do not tell us the full story. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
An organisation only has to declare
the average difference | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
between what it pays all its men
and all its women. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
Not the hard details. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:45 | |
Such as whether it is paying
the same money to a man and a woman | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
doing equal work or work
of equal value. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:53 | |
Which begs the question,
does gender pay gap reporting | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
really solve the problem? | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
I wish it would solve the problem. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
But the simple answer is, no. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:05 | |
It will be an important step
forward, but it is not going to, | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
for example, force employers
to address the pay difference | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
once that is reported. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:15 | |
Press office. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:17 | |
One moment, please. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:18 | |
Could you talk to them? | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
Get me London airport, will you? | 0:18:21 | 0:18:23 | |
The BBC is very different today,
from when virtually all the bosses | 0:18:23 | 0:18:25 | |
and presenters were men. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:29 | |
It's gender pay gap is 9%,
half the national average and half | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
what its commercial rival,
ITN, has published. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:37 | |
But many BBC women are still angry. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
Want do we want? | 0:18:41 | 0:18:47 | |
Equal pay! | 0:18:47 | 0:18:48 | |
When do we want it? | 0:18:48 | 0:18:50 | |
Now! | 0:18:50 | 0:18:51 | |
Hundreds of them came out
on International Women's Day, | 0:18:51 | 0:18:53 | |
to support the principle
of equal pay at the BBC. | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
One that I agree with. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:56 | |
There was a hero's reception
for Carrie Gracie, who had | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
taken a dramatic stand,
resigning her post as China editor. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
Carrie, Carrie, Carrie, Carrie! | 0:19:01 | 0:19:09 | |
After four years in China,
Carrie Gracie had discovered | 0:19:10 | 0:19:12 | |
she was earning at least 50% less
than two male international editors. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:19 | |
The BBC offered her a pay rise,
she turned it down, | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
saying she wanted to fight
for the principle of equality. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:27 | |
I would not go to the wall,
just for myself. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
I felt I knew by then that the BBC
was not just doing this to me. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:35 | |
They were doing this,
to many, many women. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:38 | |
It was denying their reality. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
It was breaking the law in respect
of their employment. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:43 | |
You resigned your post as China
editor, but you didn't leave | 0:19:43 | 0:19:46 | |
the BBC, you have still got
a well-paid job. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
Yeah. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:49 | |
People would say you haven't
really made a sacrifice, | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
you have taken a stand,
but what does it mean? | 0:19:51 | 0:19:53 | |
In a way, they are right. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
I haven't made a sacrifice. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:56 | |
I feel that... | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
This is not yet done. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
I may still have to leave the BBC. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:08 | |
Carrie Gracie's colleagues went
to Parliament to support her | 0:20:12 | 0:20:14 | |
when she and BBC management
were summoned there by MPs. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:19 | |
They wanted to know if public money
had been misused in not paying | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
men and women equally. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
They don't trust management. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
They have to put their hands
on the table at all times now. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
We need full
transparency in the BBC. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:33 | |
Carrie Gracie's case is astonishing. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:35 | |
There are only five international
editors, so how can it be that one | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
of them gets underpaid for a couple
of years and no one notices? | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
I think... | 0:20:41 | 0:20:42 | |
This happened because no one
was interested, no one cared. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:47 | |
And they just let it happen. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:49 | |
I do think that it was an oversight. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:50 | |
Absolutely, I do. | 0:20:50 | 0:20:52 | |
And we should have addressed that
case earlier and we admit that. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:57 | |
Why? | 0:20:57 | 0:20:58 | |
Why has this happened? | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
Why are the women not being paid
the same as the men? | 0:21:02 | 0:21:04 | |
Maxine Mawhinney had just left
the BBC after 20 years when the list | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
of top earning stars was published. | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
I do know that I have
sat beside men, on TV, | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
doing the same job, probably
the same experience or I might have | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
even been more experienced,
and I know they were earning | 0:21:17 | 0:21:19 | |
more than me. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
Did they tell you? | 0:21:22 | 0:21:23 | |
Yes. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:26 | |
Substantially more? | 0:21:26 | 0:21:27 | |
Substantially more. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
I think there is a lot of truth
in the fact that women will not push | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
themselves forward as much. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
We will accept more, probably,
rather than putting our hands up, | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
but that is changing,
Jane, it is really changing. | 0:21:38 | 0:21:44 | |
And women have had enough. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:46 | |
We have really had enough. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
There has been no admission that
the BBC has breached equal pay law. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
But after the parliamentary hearing,
there were significant | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
developments, behind the scenes. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
I have spoken to half a dozen women
who appear here on air at the BBC, | 0:22:00 | 0:22:03 | |
who claim they haven't been paid
equally to men doing | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
comparable jobs. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
Over the past few weeks,
the BBC has begun to offer these | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
women what it calls pay revisions. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:18 | |
In other words, more money. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:19 | |
In one case, up to 50% more. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:26 | |
That sounds to me as if it is
admitting they have not been paid | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
equally in the past. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:30 | |
It is. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:31 | |
I accept that. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:33 | |
That we are admitting
that we did not pay people fairly | 0:22:33 | 0:22:35 | |
or equally in the past,
yes, which is why we are looking | 0:22:35 | 0:22:38 | |
at all those cases that
people are bringing to us, | 0:22:38 | 0:22:41 | |
going back over a number
of months and years | 0:22:41 | 0:22:43 | |
and we will address them all. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
That does not necessarily mean
that we are going to agree | 0:22:46 | 0:22:48 | |
with everybody, in every case
that they bring. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
When you're in a talent business,
there are many, many reasons | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
as to why people might be
paid slightly differently. | 0:22:54 | 0:22:59 | |
It was the BBC News presenters
who grabbed the headlines, | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
but there have been concerns raised
about BBC Sport and now, tennis. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:09 | |
What is at the root of it do
you think, women don't argue | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
enough for equal pay? | 0:23:12 | 0:23:14 | |
You can argue all you want,
but we know what is at the root, | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
it is still the good
old boys network. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
And, you know, the bottom line
is that male voices are valued more | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
than women's voices. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:28 | |
People ask where there days... | 0:23:28 | 0:23:30 | |
John has a more central role
in the whole of the BBC's coverage | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
of Wimbledon and none of this
is around gender. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:38 | |
This is around what is the role
that these people are actually | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
performing for the tournament. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:43 | |
But he doesn't do ten times as much
as Martina Navratilova. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
How can that be justified, then? | 0:23:45 | 0:23:47 | |
That difference? | 0:23:47 | 0:23:50 | |
Because time spent doing the work
is only one factor in what might | 0:23:50 | 0:23:53 | |
determine what you pay people. | 0:23:53 | 0:23:58 | |
Parliament thinks that more
transparency, knowing what people | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
earn, will deliver equal pay. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:05 | |
And that means forcing the BBC
to reveal all its payments. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:08 | |
To stars like David
Dimbleby and Alan Sugar. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:10 | |
You're fired. | 0:24:10 | 0:24:12 | |
And those on Strictly,
Eastenders and many other shows. | 0:24:12 | 0:24:17 | |
Their fees are confidential,
because they work through | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
independent production companies. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:24 | |
We would be in the ridiculous
situation, for example, | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
where the pay of the judges
on Strictly Come Dancing would no | 0:24:27 | 0:24:30 | |
longer be declared and I think
the way to resolve it is to make | 0:24:30 | 0:24:33 | |
the salaries public,
whether they are being paid | 0:24:33 | 0:24:35 | |
directly by the BBC
or through a production company. | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
If the BBC refuses to do
that and they can do, | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
because the Charter does not require
them, I think we should ask | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 | |
the National Audit Office to go
in and to order this and to report | 0:24:43 | 0:24:46 | |
back to Parliament. | 0:24:46 | 0:24:47 | |
The expansion of Netflix,
Amazon, Apple TV... | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
the BBC is in a big fight here,
for the best ideas, the best talent. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:55 | |
If we are going to really make it
difficult for the independents | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
to come and work for the BBC,
by subjecting all the people | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
who work on it, to the same level
of scrutiny that our existing stars | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
are, then I don't think
that we are going to be producing | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
the best programmes. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:12 | |
On the current battle over
equal pay, the BBC points | 0:25:12 | 0:25:15 | |
to an independent report,
which found there was no | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
gender bias in on air pay
decisions at the Corporation. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:23 | |
But that won't protect them
from possible legal action | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
and potentially big bills. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
Do you think the BBC have acted
illegally in your case. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:33 | |
Yes. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:34 | |
Will you take legal action? | 0:25:34 | 0:25:35 | |
That is a very hard question. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
Because... | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
I don't want any money. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:44 | |
The BBC is short of money. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:47 | |
The BBC still has time
to do the right thing. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:51 | |
All I am asking of the BBC
is that it can say that for the four | 0:25:51 | 0:25:55 | |
years that I was China editor,
my work was of equal value | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
to that of my male peers. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:01 | |
Would you take a case
against the BBC for what you believe | 0:26:01 | 0:26:04 | |
to be an unequal pay situation? | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
If, as some of my other colleagues
are exploring at the moment, | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
if I find that I was entitled
to have been paid at a different | 0:26:10 | 0:26:14 | |
rate, during the time
I was there, of course I would. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:22 | |
It is a matter of law. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:23 | |
They are required in law to pay
people the same rate | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
for jobs of equal value. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:27 | |
What we have seen, I think, so far,
is that the BBC are not doing that. | 0:26:27 | 0:26:31 | |
They have to demonstrate how
they are complying with the law, | 0:26:31 | 0:26:34 | |
how they have settled cases people
have brought to them where they have | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
been treated unfairly,
and what mechanisms they are going | 0:26:37 | 0:26:39 | |
to put in place to make sure that
people are consistently | 0:26:39 | 0:26:42 | |
paid in the future. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
Has the BBC acted illegally
in the case of Carrie Gracie | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
and the issue of equal pay? | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
We don't believe we have acted
illegally in regard to equal pay. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:57 | |
That doesn't mean, however,
that there won't be instances | 0:26:57 | 0:26:59 | |
and cases where there is inequality. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:04 | |
And we need to address those. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:07 | |
But if there is inequality, it means
they are not being paid equally | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
and that is breaking the law. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:11 | |
Well, the law says work of equal
value and we need to judge what that | 0:27:11 | 0:27:15 | |
equal value actually means under
the terms of the law. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:23 | |
In my journey around the country,
I have seen a new spirit | 0:27:23 | 0:27:26 | |
and determination amongst the women
I have met. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:30 | |
We are not little ladies any more. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:31 | |
We do just as much hard work. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
What is so special about a man,
that he can earn more | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
money than a woman? | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
We need more women,
no matter what it is, | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
to stand up and be, like,
this isn't all right. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
I think they have got away
with it for far too long. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:48 | |
What will you do now
when it comes to Wimbledon? | 0:27:48 | 0:27:50 | |
Will you be asking for more money? | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
You'd better believe it! | 0:27:52 | 0:27:53 | |
I think I will leave it up
to my agent, who is very capable, | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
but you shouldn't be paying people
more because they have a really | 0:27:56 | 0:27:59 | |
great agent or because they scream
a lot, you should pay them | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
because it is the right thing to do. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:04 | |
It is only fair. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:10 | |
With the deadline less
than three weeks away, | 0:28:10 | 0:28:12 | |
more than two thirds
of organisations in Britain have yet | 0:28:12 | 0:28:14 | |
to report their gender pay gap. | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
There may be more shocking
figures yet to come. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
Will it take another 50 years before
a woman can know she has | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
been paid like a man? | 0:28:22 | 0:28:24 | |
MUSIC: Blondie - 'Atomic'. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:32 |