
Browse content similar to How Rolls-Royce Bribed Its Way Around the World. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Three, two, one... | 6:53:10 | 6:53:12 | |
It is Britain's most iconic brand, | 6:53:12 | 6:53:17 | |
but has Rolls-Royce's success been fuelled by corruption? | 6:53:17 | 6:53:21 | |
Their business model has been based on | 6:53:22 | 6:53:25 | |
the systematic use of agents or middlemen | 6:53:25 | 6:53:28 | |
to effectively try and bribe their way to contracts. | 6:53:28 | 6:53:32 | |
We travel to places where Rolls-Royce | 6:53:32 | 6:53:36 | |
is accused of paying bribes. | 6:53:36 | 6:53:38 | |
He states the names of several companies | 6:53:38 | 6:53:41 | |
that he received bribes from. | 6:53:41 | 6:53:43 | |
One of those companies is Rolls-Royce. | 6:53:43 | 6:53:46 | |
'We find the middleman who reveals how corruption wins business.' | 6:53:46 | 6:53:52 | |
Wouldn't it be reasonable, then, for Rolls-Royce to say, | 6:53:52 | 6:53:55 | |
"We don't know what they were doing"? | 6:53:55 | 6:53:56 | |
They had to have known, they would have known. | 6:53:56 | 6:53:59 | |
It's just the way it works. | 6:53:59 | 6:54:01 | |
Mr Ginger? | 6:54:01 | 6:54:02 | |
'And why would an arms salesman | 6:54:02 | 6:54:05 | |
'pay a bag full of cash into a Swiss bank?' | 6:54:05 | 6:54:08 | |
Was the money that went into your Swiss account a bribe? | 6:54:08 | 6:54:11 | |
Was the money that went into that Swiss account, | 6:54:11 | 6:54:14 | |
-was that a bribe, sir? -Don't be ridiculous! | 6:54:14 | 6:54:16 | |
CROWD CHANTS | 6:54:28 | 6:54:31 | |
'People are on the streets in Rio. | 6:54:40 | 6:54:43 | |
'The Brazilian President has just been forced from office | 6:54:46 | 6:54:49 | |
'and the country is divided.' | 6:54:49 | 6:54:51 | |
Fora Temer! | 6:54:51 | 6:54:53 | |
'It is a political crisis caused by corruption. | 6:54:53 | 6:54:57 | |
'For years, politicians and state officials have been taking bribes.' | 6:54:57 | 6:55:02 | |
I never saw my countrymen so angry as in the last couple of years. | 6:55:04 | 6:55:08 | |
If you are afraid of losing your job and then you watch TV and you see | 6:55:09 | 6:55:14 | |
all these guys taking millions of dollars in bribes, | 6:55:14 | 6:55:17 | |
you are going to feel angry - very, very angry. | 6:55:17 | 6:55:20 | |
'Now the truth is coming out | 6:55:24 | 6:55:26 | |
'and it doesn't look good for Rolls-Royce. | 6:55:26 | 6:55:30 | |
'It all centres on Brazil's state oil company. | 6:55:34 | 6:55:38 | |
'It's called Petrobras and it's huge.' | 6:55:38 | 6:55:41 | |
This gives you a sense of the scale of the Petrobras operation. | 6:55:43 | 6:55:48 | |
This facility is just off the coast of Rio. | 6:55:48 | 6:55:51 | |
Petrobras is one of the biggest companies in South America, | 6:55:51 | 6:55:54 | |
it produces two million barrels of oil every day | 6:55:54 | 6:55:58 | |
and it does that using equipment | 6:55:58 | 6:56:00 | |
supplied by foreign companies, like Rolls-Royce. | 6:56:00 | 6:56:04 | |
'For Rolls-Royce, this was big business. | 6:56:05 | 6:56:08 | |
'One contract alone was worth 100 million. | 6:56:08 | 6:56:13 | |
'But to win contracts like this, companies were paying bribes.' | 6:56:13 | 6:56:18 | |
TRANSLATION: | 6:56:21 | 6:56:25 | |
'This is Pedro Barusco, | 6:56:31 | 6:56:33 | |
'one of the Petrobras executives who handled the bribes.' | 6:56:33 | 6:56:38 | |
'He's done a deal and named the companies who paid bribes. | 6:56:46 | 6:56:51 | |
'This is the first time | 6:56:51 | 6:56:53 | |
'the prosecutor has spoken about Rolls-Royce and Barusco.' | 6:56:53 | 6:56:56 | |
I could point you towards a deposition | 6:56:56 | 6:57:00 | |
where he states the names of several companies | 6:57:00 | 6:57:03 | |
that he received bribes from. One of those companies is Rolls-Royce. | 6:57:03 | 6:57:08 | |
'And Barusco told the authorities about that 100 million contract.' | 6:57:10 | 6:57:15 | |
Rolls-Royce made some payments. | 6:57:17 | 6:57:20 | |
He does not remember exactly who benefited | 6:57:20 | 6:57:23 | |
from the division of bribes, | 6:57:23 | 6:57:25 | |
but remembers he got at least 200,000 US dollars. | 6:57:25 | 6:57:30 | |
'The Rolls-Royce bribes were paid by a middleman. | 6:57:30 | 6:57:35 | |
'It was the standard way of moving the corrupt money.' | 6:57:35 | 6:57:38 | |
With the foreign companies, the most common means to pay bribes | 6:57:40 | 6:57:44 | |
would be to hire a consultant, | 6:57:44 | 6:57:47 | |
and that person would be responsible to deliver the money | 6:57:47 | 6:57:51 | |
to Petrobras directors or the politicians. | 6:57:51 | 6:57:54 | |
'Prosecutors in Brazil say Rolls-Royce is co-operating. | 6:57:57 | 6:58:02 | |
'But its reputation here has been badly damaged.' | 6:58:04 | 6:58:07 | |
What do you think, then, of a company like Rolls-Royce | 6:58:09 | 6:58:12 | |
that's paying bribes to get contracts? | 6:58:12 | 6:58:15 | |
I think they are a big part of the problem. | 6:58:15 | 6:58:17 | |
Perhaps even a bigger part than the Brazilian government is, | 6:58:17 | 6:58:20 | |
in the sense that... Come on! We're talking about | 6:58:20 | 6:58:23 | |
VERY rich companies, you know, very powerful. | 6:58:23 | 6:58:25 | |
They operate everywhere across the globe. | 6:58:25 | 6:58:28 | |
So they come to Brazil to do that?! | 6:58:28 | 6:58:31 | |
They are just like the bad companies in Brazil. | 6:58:31 | 6:58:34 | |
I mean, that's awful! | 6:58:34 | 6:58:36 | |
'So how has Rolls-Royce ended up in this position? | 6:58:42 | 6:58:47 | |
'The company doesn't make cars any more - that was sold to BMW. | 6:58:49 | 6:58:53 | |
'This promotional video shows what Rolls-Royce is famous for now - | 6:58:58 | 6:59:03 | |
'building engines for aircraft. | 6:59:03 | 6:59:06 | |
'It employs 23,000 people in the UK.' | 6:59:06 | 6:59:10 | |
Every day, aircraft are taking off with British wings, | 6:59:10 | 6:59:15 | |
British landing gear, Rolls-Royce engines. | 6:59:15 | 6:59:18 | |
We can be incredibly proud of this industry. | 6:59:18 | 6:59:21 | |
'Up until a couple of years ago, growth was spectacular. | 6:59:23 | 6:59:27 | |
'In 15 years, the company's sales tripled, | 6:59:27 | 6:59:32 | |
'profits increased fivefold.' | 6:59:32 | 6:59:34 | |
Rolls-Royce is that sort of Great British tradition | 6:59:34 | 6:59:37 | |
of engineering excellence which I think people really respect. | 6:59:37 | 6:59:41 | |
It is a respected and trusted brand. | 6:59:41 | 6:59:42 | |
The company has been through phenomenal growth. | 6:59:42 | 6:59:45 | |
It entered into new markets, it went into new geographic territories | 6:59:45 | 6:59:49 | |
and it became a real global power. | 6:59:49 | 6:59:51 | |
'But serious questions are being asked | 6:59:55 | 6:59:58 | |
'about just how Rolls-Royce managed to grow so quickly. | 6:59:58 | 7:00:02 | |
'Alongside The Guardian newspaper, | 7:00:03 | 7:00:05 | |
'we've been investigating the company.' | 7:00:05 | 7:00:08 | |
We've got evidence that Rolls-Royce was using dubious middlemen | 7:00:09 | 7:00:13 | |
to win contracts in countries where corruption was widespread. | 7:00:13 | 7:00:18 | |
One of Britain's most prestigious companies | 7:00:18 | 7:00:21 | |
was bribing its way around the world. | 7:00:21 | 7:00:23 | |
'In 2013, the Serious Fraud Office in the UK started investigating | 7:00:31 | 7:00:36 | |
'the way Rolls-Royce had won contracts for jet engines. | 7:00:36 | 7:00:40 | |
'A former Rolls-Royce employee | 7:00:42 | 7:00:44 | |
'claimed big bribes had been paid in Indonesia. | 7:00:44 | 7:00:48 | |
'He said 20 million was given | 7:00:48 | 7:00:50 | |
'to the former president's son Tommy Suharto | 7:00:50 | 7:00:54 | |
'to make sure Indonesia's main airline used Rolls-Royce engines.' | 7:00:54 | 7:00:59 | |
The fact that there is credible evidence from inside the company | 7:01:01 | 7:01:05 | |
that the company is paying bribes | 7:01:05 | 7:01:07 | |
to people very closely linked to senior politicians | 7:01:07 | 7:01:10 | |
suggests, in all instances, prima facie evidence of corruption. | 7:01:10 | 7:01:15 | |
'Tommy Suharto has denied the allegations, but in 2011, | 7:01:18 | 7:01:23 | |
'a second whistle-blower, using the cover name Soaringdragon, | 7:01:23 | 7:01:27 | |
'suggested Rolls-Royce had paid bribes | 7:01:27 | 7:01:31 | |
'to win contracts at two airlines in China. | 7:01:31 | 7:01:34 | |
'According to Soaringdragon, | 7:01:35 | 7:01:37 | |
'a middleman paid bribes to a Chinese airline executive.' | 7:01:37 | 7:01:41 | |
The Chinese authorities investigated | 7:01:45 | 7:01:47 | |
and the airline executive involved was convicted of taking bribes. | 7:01:47 | 7:01:52 | |
Now, he has been jailed for life, | 7:01:52 | 7:01:55 | |
but no action has been taken against Rolls-Royce. | 7:01:55 | 7:01:58 | |
'Crucial parts of the case have been kept secret, | 7:02:01 | 7:02:04 | |
'including the name of the company paying the bribes, | 7:02:04 | 7:02:08 | |
'but Rolls-Royce secured contracts worth 2 billion | 7:02:08 | 7:02:13 | |
'from two Chinese airlines | 7:02:13 | 7:02:15 | |
'in the same period that the bribes were paid.' | 7:02:15 | 7:02:18 | |
If one puts the information | 7:02:19 | 7:02:21 | |
that we have been able to glean from the court case, | 7:02:21 | 7:02:24 | |
in which someone was sentenced to a life term for corruption, | 7:02:24 | 7:02:28 | |
if we look at the sort of aircraft involved, | 7:02:28 | 7:02:31 | |
the sorts of engines that that aircraft uses, | 7:02:31 | 7:02:34 | |
if we look at the allegations made by Soaringdragon, | 7:02:34 | 7:02:38 | |
that were instrumental to this court case, | 7:02:38 | 7:02:41 | |
all of those things together point to Rolls-Royce. | 7:02:41 | 7:02:44 | |
'Rolls-Royce says it's fully co-operating with the authorities | 7:02:49 | 7:02:52 | |
'and cannot comment on ongoing investigations. | 7:02:52 | 7:02:56 | |
'It says it completed | 7:02:58 | 7:02:59 | |
'a thorough review of its anti-corruption policies, | 7:02:59 | 7:03:02 | |
'including the use of advisers and intermediaries. | 7:03:02 | 7:03:06 | |
'Rolls-Royce has sold equipment | 7:03:15 | 7:03:17 | |
'in some of the most corrupt countries on the planet. | 7:03:17 | 7:03:21 | |
'It used middlemen to help. | 7:03:23 | 7:03:25 | |
'I've come to the south of France | 7:03:29 | 7:03:31 | |
'to meet someone who knows how it works.' | 7:03:31 | 7:03:33 | |
Right now, I'm probably the only guy that is stepping up to the plate, | 7:03:39 | 7:03:42 | |
kind of giving you a kind of inside look | 7:03:42 | 7:03:44 | |
from my perspective on how it worked when I was there. | 7:03:44 | 7:03:47 | |
'Lindsey Mitchell used to work for a Monaco-based company called Unioil. | 7:03:47 | 7:03:53 | |
'It's also under investigation by the Serious Fraud Office.' | 7:03:53 | 7:03:58 | |
You know, you became the guy that had the connections. | 7:03:58 | 7:04:01 | |
'Unioil worked for Rolls-Royce | 7:04:01 | 7:04:04 | |
'in countries like Iraq, Angola and Kazakhstan.' | 7:04:04 | 7:04:08 | |
Just beyond this FedEx truck, on the right-hand side, | 7:04:08 | 7:04:11 | |
is the Unioil office. | 7:04:11 | 7:04:14 | |
-Just down there? -Yeah. Right in there. | 7:04:14 | 7:04:17 | |
'This is the first time Lindsey has talked about | 7:04:17 | 7:04:21 | |
'the corruption he saw when he worked here.' | 7:04:21 | 7:04:23 | |
Strange to see it again? | 7:04:23 | 7:04:25 | |
Very strange. | 7:04:25 | 7:04:26 | |
'He is about to make an extraordinary confession. | 7:04:26 | 7:04:30 | |
'He bribed an oil official to try to help a client win business.' | 7:04:30 | 7:04:35 | |
I don't call it a bribe, I call it a facility payment or commission, | 7:04:36 | 7:04:39 | |
but in layman terms, it would be called a bribe. | 7:04:39 | 7:04:42 | |
I...made the payment at the gentleman's house | 7:04:45 | 7:04:49 | |
at 11 o'clock at night, dropped it off. | 7:04:49 | 7:04:52 | |
How heavy was the envelope? | 7:04:52 | 7:04:54 | |
Thick. | 7:04:54 | 7:04:56 | |
-Thick with money? -Yeah. | 7:04:56 | 7:04:58 | |
I just dropped it off, "Here is your gift," yeah. | 7:04:58 | 7:05:01 | |
And what did he say? | 7:05:01 | 7:05:02 | |
"Thank you, let's have a coffee." | 7:05:02 | 7:05:04 | |
So we had a coffee. | 7:05:04 | 7:05:06 | |
And that's it? | 7:05:06 | 7:05:08 | |
-That's it. -That how it works? | 7:05:08 | 7:05:09 | |
That's how it works. | 7:05:09 | 7:05:11 | |
But Unioil was happy to pay that bribe? | 7:05:11 | 7:05:13 | |
They were happy to pay the facility payment. | 7:05:14 | 7:05:16 | |
'Rolls-Royce wasn't one of Lindsey's clients, | 7:05:17 | 7:05:21 | |
'but he believes Unioil paid bribes for Rolls-Royce too.' | 7:05:21 | 7:05:26 | |
If they are representing Rolls-Royce, | 7:05:26 | 7:05:29 | |
it would be Unioil's responsibility | 7:05:29 | 7:05:31 | |
to make sure that the commissions, the facility payments, | 7:05:31 | 7:05:34 | |
and/or you want call them bribes, | 7:05:34 | 7:05:36 | |
were made to the proper officials to make the... | 7:05:36 | 7:05:39 | |
er... | 7:05:39 | 7:05:40 | |
the sale. | 7:05:40 | 7:05:42 | |
Would it be reasonable, then, for Rolls-Royce to say, | 7:05:42 | 7:05:44 | |
"Look, we went to Unioil to get us work, | 7:05:44 | 7:05:47 | |
"we don't know what they were doing"? | 7:05:47 | 7:05:49 | |
They had to have known, they would have known. | 7:05:49 | 7:05:51 | |
Someone within the management of Rolls-Royce or any other company | 7:05:51 | 7:05:55 | |
that Unioil represented knew there was facility payments | 7:05:55 | 7:05:58 | |
or commissions being paid to get business. | 7:05:58 | 7:06:00 | |
It's just the way it works. | 7:06:03 | 7:06:04 | |
'There is evidence that appears to support what Lindsey is saying. | 7:06:08 | 7:06:11 | |
'Unioil e-mails that were leaked to the Fairfax Media Group | 7:06:13 | 7:06:17 | |
'suggest paying bribes was commonplace. | 7:06:17 | 7:06:21 | |
'And some involve Rolls-Royce. | 7:06:21 | 7:06:23 | |
'This document shows Unioil put aside 284,000 | 7:06:26 | 7:06:31 | |
'for middlemen or sub-agents on a Rolls-Royce job in Iraq. | 7:06:31 | 7:06:36 | |
'And this e-mail shows how gifts were bought | 7:06:36 | 7:06:39 | |
'for an official involved with the contract.' | 7:06:39 | 7:06:42 | |
Mr X is our key contact to obtaining the current contract | 7:06:44 | 7:06:48 | |
valued at 17 million, | 7:06:48 | 7:06:51 | |
and I am pursuing him hard for the next set of turbines | 7:06:51 | 7:06:55 | |
valued in excess of 23 million. | 7:06:55 | 7:06:59 | |
'The e-mails show that Unioil took the official shopping in London, | 7:06:59 | 7:07:04 | |
'spending more than 2,000 on luxury goods. | 7:07:04 | 7:07:09 | |
'They even spell out why they are doing it.' | 7:07:09 | 7:07:12 | |
Spending 2,684 on a key decision-maker | 7:07:12 | 7:07:17 | |
is worth 100 times that value, | 7:07:17 | 7:07:20 | |
without which we would have no contract in our hands now. | 7:07:20 | 7:07:24 | |
The value of that jacket starts to show now. | 7:07:24 | 7:07:28 | |
"Spending 2,700 on a key decision-maker | 7:07:30 | 7:07:33 | |
"is worth 100 times that value, | 7:07:33 | 7:07:35 | |
"without which we would have no contract in our hands now." | 7:07:35 | 7:07:38 | |
-These are all internal Unioil e-mails? -That's right. | 7:07:38 | 7:07:42 | |
They refer to people who are working on Rolls-Royce accounts. | 7:07:42 | 7:07:46 | |
'We showed the evidence to a bribery expert.' | 7:07:46 | 7:07:50 | |
The e-mail is describing | 7:07:51 | 7:07:53 | |
gifts entirely intended to secure business. | 7:07:53 | 7:07:56 | |
When there's quite clearly stated | 7:07:56 | 7:07:59 | |
the object of giving the gifts is to get access to a decision-maker | 7:07:59 | 7:08:03 | |
who might otherwise not favour your business, | 7:08:03 | 7:08:06 | |
then it plainly is intended to induce a positive decision. | 7:08:06 | 7:08:11 | |
Some of the numbers are quite small, just over 2,000, | 7:08:11 | 7:08:14 | |
things like a leather jacket. | 7:08:14 | 7:08:16 | |
It seems very small amounts. | 7:08:16 | 7:08:18 | |
It doesn't matter. | 7:08:18 | 7:08:19 | |
What matters is the purpose for which the gift is given. | 7:08:19 | 7:08:22 | |
If the expectation is, and plainly what these e-mails reveal, | 7:08:22 | 7:08:27 | |
is that these things were done | 7:08:27 | 7:08:29 | |
with a clear expectation of business being granted, | 7:08:29 | 7:08:32 | |
that's bribery. | 7:08:32 | 7:08:33 | |
'Unioil told us any allegations of corruption are denied | 7:08:36 | 7:08:41 | |
'and it would be inappropriate to make further comment | 7:08:41 | 7:08:45 | |
'because of the ongoing investigation. | 7:08:45 | 7:08:47 | |
'The company...' | 7:08:47 | 7:08:50 | |
Rolls-Royce faces questions around the world | 7:09:12 | 7:09:15 | |
about the way it does business, | 7:09:15 | 7:09:17 | |
but some of the biggest are here in India. | 7:09:17 | 7:09:20 | |
'Rolls-Royce has already been caught out here. | 7:09:23 | 7:09:27 | |
'In 2014, it offered to pay back £1.8 million commission | 7:09:27 | 7:09:33 | |
'that it had secretly paid to a middleman.' | 7:09:33 | 7:09:36 | |
Rolls-Royce actually wrote, | 7:09:38 | 7:09:40 | |
offering the return of the money that it had paid in those deals. | 7:09:40 | 7:09:44 | |
Is the suggestion, then, | 7:09:44 | 7:09:45 | |
that there were bribes involved, that there were kickbacks? | 7:09:45 | 7:09:48 | |
Why was the agent being paid that kind of money | 7:09:48 | 7:09:51 | |
if it was not something illegal? | 7:09:51 | 7:09:53 | |
'The most serious questions relate to the biggest deals | 7:09:59 | 7:10:04 | |
'and, for Rolls-Royce, they're often defence contracts.' | 7:10:04 | 7:10:08 | |
No big defence deal takes place without money changing hands. | 7:10:10 | 7:10:16 | |
Defence deals are big deals. | 7:10:16 | 7:10:18 | |
Most of government consists of small-ticket items, | 7:10:18 | 7:10:21 | |
building a bridge here, or building a road there, | 7:10:21 | 7:10:23 | |
but once you come to defence, | 7:10:23 | 7:10:25 | |
you suddenly get into multi-million dollars, | 7:10:25 | 7:10:28 | |
or 10 billion, 5 billion, | 7:10:28 | 7:10:30 | |
so the payoffs there are huge. | 7:10:30 | 7:10:31 | |
CROWD CHEERS | 7:10:41 | 7:10:45 | |
'Rolls-Royce supplies engines for the Hawk jet used by the Red Arrows. | 7:10:45 | 7:10:50 | |
'The Indian government bought 123 of them | 7:10:53 | 7:10:57 | |
'and that earned Rolls-Royce around £400 million. | 7:10:57 | 7:11:02 | |
'David Cameron was in India to celebrate. | 7:11:02 | 7:11:05 | |
'It's just one of Rolls-Royce's defence deals in India | 7:11:08 | 7:11:12 | |
'and, once again, they are said to involve a secretive middleman. | 7:11:12 | 7:11:18 | |
'He is a London-based billionaire who has built a business empire - | 7:11:18 | 7:11:22 | |
'Sudhir Choudhrie. Here he is, | 7:11:22 | 7:11:25 | |
'picking up a business achievement award from Theresa May.' | 7:11:25 | 7:11:30 | |
The entire community was there, the Asian community, | 7:11:31 | 7:11:34 | |
and everyone was very delightful. | 7:11:34 | 7:11:38 | |
'The Choudhrie family | 7:11:38 | 7:11:39 | |
'has given more than £1.6 million to the Liberal Democrats | 7:11:39 | 7:11:44 | |
'and Mr Choudhrie is now an adviser on India | 7:11:44 | 7:11:48 | |
'to party leader Tim Farron.' | 7:11:48 | 7:11:51 | |
Sudhir Choudhrie is a most important defence agent in India | 7:11:51 | 7:11:54 | |
and he probably is among the world's most powerful arms agents today. | 7:11:54 | 7:11:58 | |
He is a global figure. | 7:11:58 | 7:12:00 | |
We are talking about billions of dollars of money worth of deals. | 7:12:00 | 7:12:04 | |
'But Sudhir Choudhrie | 7:12:04 | 7:12:07 | |
'was not registered as a defence agent in India. | 7:12:07 | 7:12:11 | |
'It is illegal to pay secret middlemen to win defence contracts, | 7:12:11 | 7:12:15 | |
'but that seems to be what Rolls-Royce was doing.' | 7:12:15 | 7:12:19 | |
When the defence scam surfaced in this country, | 7:12:20 | 7:12:24 | |
the ministry and the government banned agents | 7:12:24 | 7:12:27 | |
and they said companies have to deal | 7:12:27 | 7:12:30 | |
through recognised offices opened in the country. | 7:12:30 | 7:12:33 | |
They are not allowed to deal through these little agents, you know, | 7:12:33 | 7:12:37 | |
who represent opportunities for unseen diversion of funds. | 7:12:37 | 7:12:41 | |
'A man who knows India's murky world of agents agreed to meet me. | 7:12:50 | 7:12:56 | |
'He wanted to remain anonymous, but what he told us | 7:13:02 | 7:13:05 | |
'links Sudhir Choudhrie to both Rolls-Royce and the Hawk deal.' | 7:13:05 | 7:13:11 | |
Does Sudhir Choudhrie work for Rolls-Royce? | 7:13:19 | 7:13:22 | |
I was approached by someone from the Sudhir Choudhrie team in India. | 7:13:22 | 7:13:26 | |
They wanted an introduction to government. | 7:13:26 | 7:13:29 | |
It was to do with the Hawk deal. | 7:13:29 | 7:13:31 | |
They were representing Sudhir Choudhrie, it was very clear. | 7:13:31 | 7:13:34 | |
Why would Rolls-Royce hire such a guy? | 7:13:40 | 7:13:43 | |
Why does it need a consultant with a shady background? | 7:13:43 | 7:13:46 | |
'Panorama understands Rolls-Royce secretly paid around £10 million | 7:13:48 | 7:13:54 | |
'to companies owned by the Choudhrie family. | 7:13:54 | 7:13:57 | |
'Now, Mr Choudhrie denies being paid by Rolls-Royce, | 7:13:57 | 7:14:02 | |
'but he hasn't answered our question | 7:14:02 | 7:14:05 | |
'about payments going to family companies. | 7:14:05 | 7:14:08 | |
'We've also found out | 7:14:18 | 7:14:20 | |
'what the Indian authorities think of Mr Choudhrie. | 7:14:20 | 7:14:24 | |
'Rolls-Royce's man in India | 7:14:24 | 7:14:26 | |
'is officially suspected of corrupt or irregular practices.' | 7:14:26 | 7:14:30 | |
We've got hold of the government's secret list | 7:14:33 | 7:14:36 | |
of undesirable contact men. | 7:14:36 | 7:14:38 | |
Now, it warns civil servants and government ministers | 7:14:38 | 7:14:42 | |
to take extra care when dealing with such unscrupulous persons. | 7:14:42 | 7:14:46 | |
Sudhir Choudhrie is on that list. | 7:14:46 | 7:14:49 | |
It's a blacklist of men with whom | 7:14:53 | 7:14:55 | |
government employees or officials should not deal with, | 7:14:55 | 7:14:58 | |
men who should not be given any contracts, and Sudhir Choudhrie | 7:14:58 | 7:15:02 | |
has had a very prominent position in the UCM list for years. | 7:15:02 | 7:15:05 | |
Why is he on the list? | 7:15:05 | 7:15:06 | |
For the fact that he is known and is accused of | 7:15:06 | 7:15:10 | |
manipulating defence procurement. | 7:15:10 | 7:15:12 | |
So why was Rolls-Royce involved with someone like Sudhir Choudhrie? | 7:15:14 | 7:15:19 | |
For a company like Rolls-Royce to be using, as a middleman, | 7:15:22 | 7:15:26 | |
somebody who clearly has a very poor reputation | 7:15:26 | 7:15:29 | |
suggests that they have very few scruples | 7:15:29 | 7:15:32 | |
about the way they go about their practice of business in India. | 7:15:32 | 7:15:35 | |
'Mr Choudhrie's lawyers told us he... | 7:15:40 | 7:15:42 | |
'And on the Undesirable Contact Men list, | 7:15:49 | 7:15:51 | |
'they said he has... | 7:15:51 | 7:15:53 | |
'In 2014, Sudhir Choudhrie was arrested in the UK as part of | 7:15:57 | 7:16:02 | |
'that Serious Fraud Office investigation into Rolls-Royce. | 7:16:02 | 7:16:06 | |
'His son Bhanu Choudhrie was arrested, too. | 7:16:06 | 7:16:11 | |
'Both men were released without charge. | 7:16:11 | 7:16:14 | |
'They both own houses in this exclusive London square.' | 7:16:16 | 7:16:19 | |
We have found evidence that suggests Bhanu Choudhrie | 7:16:21 | 7:16:24 | |
may have helped Rolls-Royce win that multi-million-pound Hawk deal | 7:16:24 | 7:16:29 | |
and it involves paying what on the face of it looks like a bribe. | 7:16:29 | 7:16:34 | |
'It centres on this man, Peter Ginger. | 7:16:38 | 7:16:41 | |
'He played a key role in selling | 7:16:44 | 7:16:46 | |
'military jets with Rolls-Royce engines to the Indian government. | 7:16:46 | 7:16:51 | |
'We've discovered that Mr Ginger visited Switzerland | 7:16:55 | 7:16:59 | |
'with Bhanu Choudhrie in 2007. | 7:16:59 | 7:17:02 | |
'He opened a Swiss bank account under the name of Portsmouth | 7:17:02 | 7:17:06 | |
'and paid in a large quantity of cash. | 7:17:06 | 7:17:10 | |
'His account later showed a million Swiss francs. | 7:17:10 | 7:17:13 | |
'A source at the bank agreed to speak to us anonymously.' | 7:17:19 | 7:17:22 | |
The documents do show one bank account | 7:17:24 | 7:17:26 | |
containing hundreds of thousands of Swiss francs | 7:17:26 | 7:17:29 | |
opened for Peter Ginger. | 7:17:29 | 7:17:31 | |
I understand that Peter Ginger lodged all of this money in one go, | 7:17:31 | 7:17:35 | |
in cash, in Switzerland. | 7:17:35 | 7:17:37 | |
'So did all that cash have anything to do with Rolls-Royce? | 7:17:41 | 7:17:46 | |
'We asked Peter Ginger what he was doing in Switzerland | 7:17:46 | 7:17:50 | |
'with Bhanu Choudhrie, the son of Rolls-Royce's man in India...' | 7:17:50 | 7:17:55 | |
Sorry, sir. | 7:17:55 | 7:17:56 | |
'..but he wouldn't answer the question...' | 7:17:56 | 7:17:59 | |
So, Mr Ginger, I think, is just over here. | 7:17:59 | 7:18:01 | |
'..so I caught up with him for a chat.' | 7:18:01 | 7:18:04 | |
Mr Ginger? | 7:18:04 | 7:18:06 | |
Hiya, I'm Richard Bilton from BBC Panorama. | 7:18:06 | 7:18:08 | |
Can I ask you a quick question? | 7:18:08 | 7:18:10 | |
-You... -No, I can't talk to you, | 7:18:10 | 7:18:12 | |
you know I can't talk to you, and please take me off camera. | 7:18:12 | 7:18:14 | |
You put cash worth hundreds of thousands of pounds in your Swiss... | 7:18:14 | 7:18:17 | |
-No, I'm not... -Was that a bribe, sir? | 7:18:17 | 7:18:19 | |
-Don't be ridiculous! -Was it a bribe? Now's your chance to tell us. | 7:18:19 | 7:18:22 | |
I'm interested. Don't touch that, just tell me the truth. | 7:18:22 | 7:18:24 | |
Did you...? Was that a bribe? Did that money come from...? | 7:18:24 | 7:18:26 | |
I am... Look, you've asked me the questions, | 7:18:26 | 7:18:29 | |
it's now with my lawyer. | 7:18:29 | 7:18:31 | |
I'm not answering any questions, my lawyer will answer the questions. | 7:18:31 | 7:18:35 | |
You've received a letter from him. | 7:18:35 | 7:18:37 | |
'His lawyer has never contacted us.' | 7:18:37 | 7:18:40 | |
-You haven't responded... -I don't... I will not respond! | 7:18:40 | 7:18:42 | |
Yeah, but you did tell us something that's untrue, because you told us | 7:18:42 | 7:18:45 | |
that you hadn't been to Switzerland with Mr Choudhrie and you had. | 7:18:45 | 7:18:48 | |
-Go away! -What did Mr Choudhrie want? | 7:18:48 | 7:18:50 | |
-Go away. -What did Mr Choudhrie want, sir? | 7:18:50 | 7:18:52 | |
I'm getting into a taxi, don't follow me. | 7:18:52 | 7:18:55 | |
Was the money that went into your Swiss account a bribe? | 7:18:55 | 7:18:57 | |
-The lawyer... -I'm not pushing you. | 7:18:57 | 7:18:59 | |
Was the money that went into that Swiss account, | 7:18:59 | 7:19:01 | |
-was that a bribe, sir? -Don't be ridiculous! | 7:19:01 | 7:19:03 | |
I've told you that before. | 7:19:03 | 7:19:05 | |
Deal with my lawyer. | 7:19:05 | 7:19:06 | |
'Mr Ginger told us he has never acted for Rolls-Royce | 7:19:13 | 7:19:17 | |
'or had any financial dealings with the company | 7:19:17 | 7:19:20 | |
'and he says he's never taken nor paid any bribes. | 7:19:20 | 7:19:24 | |
'Bhanu Choudhrie's lawyers told us | 7:19:24 | 7:19:27 | |
'he's never been paid to secure deals for Rolls-Royce in India, | 7:19:27 | 7:19:31 | |
'including the sale of Hawk jets. | 7:19:31 | 7:19:34 | |
'They add Mr Choudhrie has... | 7:19:34 | 7:19:36 | |
'..and has no knowledge of Mr Ginger's banking arrangements. | 7:19:40 | 7:19:43 | |
'The Serious Fraud Office | 7:19:50 | 7:19:52 | |
'now has 30 investigators on the Rolls-Royce case. | 7:19:52 | 7:19:55 | |
'There is a separate investigation in the United States. | 7:19:55 | 7:20:00 | |
'Rolls-Royce could face enormous fines. | 7:20:00 | 7:20:03 | |
'Employees past or present could be jailed.' | 7:20:03 | 7:20:07 | |
Why should our viewers care if a company like Rolls-Royce, | 7:20:08 | 7:20:12 | |
an iconic UK brand, is using middlemen to pay bribes? | 7:20:12 | 7:20:17 | |
They should care because Rolls-Royce is, or should be, better than that. | 7:20:17 | 7:20:21 | |
It's an important brand and it's a brand that should be entirely clean. | 7:20:21 | 7:20:25 | |
'Rolls-Royce says it... | 7:20:27 | 7:20:29 | |
'..and has intensified its... | 7:20:34 | 7:20:36 | |
'It says it has... | 7:20:39 | 7:20:41 | |
I think it's extremely unfortunate the way Rolls-Royce has behaved. | 7:20:46 | 7:20:50 | |
I think their business model has been based on | 7:20:50 | 7:20:54 | |
the systematic use of agents or middlemen | 7:20:54 | 7:20:57 | |
to effectively try and bribe their way to contracts. | 7:20:57 | 7:21:01 | |
I think that that makes, | 7:21:01 | 7:21:03 | |
not only United Kingdom, but the world in which we trade, | 7:21:03 | 7:21:08 | |
a more corrupt place, a less democratic place | 7:21:08 | 7:21:11 | |
and a far more volatile and unstable place in which to do business. | 7:21:11 | 7:21:17 | |
'The golden years for Rolls-Royce seem to be over. | 7:21:19 | 7:21:23 | |
'The company has issued five warnings about falling profits | 7:21:23 | 7:21:27 | |
'in the last two years. | 7:21:27 | 7:21:29 | |
'It's now under scrutiny as never before. | 7:21:31 | 7:21:34 | |
'Bribing its way around the world | 7:21:34 | 7:21:36 | |
'is no longer an option for Rolls-Royce.' | 7:21:36 | 7:21:39 |