Urgent Question - Migrants Questions and Statements

Urging question, Mr Alistair Carmichael. Thank you Mr Speaker.

Does the Secretary of State for defence what to make a statement on

the announcement that the Royal Navy will join naval forces and

interception and returned of migrants and refugees in the

Mediterranean? Secretary of State for defence, secretary Michael

Fallon. The scale of the migration challenge, Mr Speaker requires Nato,

the European Union and other European countries across Europe to

work together to address both its symptoms, the constant flow of

migrant and the conditions we see them face, and because of injury and

beyond. We must also work with local civilian authorities to tackle the

gangs that profit from smuggling I grant. The United Kingdom has

already been engaged for several months with the home office ship

deployed in the region since November, with a detachment of

border force officers. On the 11th of February, Nato defence ministers

took the decision to deploy Nato ships, that are to enable Turkish

and Greek Coast Guard to intercept the migrant boat and disrupt the

smugglers business model. Nato s standing Maritime group to arrive in

the region within 48 hours of that decision, and has been conduct gang

and the sober reconnaissance and surveillance of illegal crossings

since then. The Nato secretary-general outlined in the

gaming yesterday evening, the discussions between Nato, Turkey and

Greece have now agreed that Nato vessels can now operate in Greek and

Turkish territorial waters. We have therefore decided that the UK

contribution is to send our at a man's pay and a maritime wildcat

helicopter to the Aegean Sea. Their roles will be to support the Nato

monitoring and surveillance task. They will work alongside three

border force boats, which of one is on the way to the region and the

other expected to start operations later this month. Together they will

support the Turkish and Greek Coast Guard and the you Frontex mission.

The Prime Minister, Mr Speaker, is it ending today s EU Turkey summit

on migration. Venture beating to the Eland Nato missions to counter

smuggling is only part of the government s wider approach to

tackling the root causes of irregular migration. The United

Kingdom is leading the way in tackling these issues at their

source providing significant amounts of aid to assist in stabilising

troubled regions and lessening the need for people to leave. Meantime,

this Royal Navy deployment is an important part of the international

effort to assist the Turkish and Greek authorities in reducing this

criminal and dangerous people trafficking. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Can I thank the Secretary of State for that answer and in particular

thank him for coming here to make this payment today. What he

describes is a series of tactics, many of which I think we'll find

broad support in this house. But, it does seem to me that taken together,

they do not add up to a strategy. It is referred to today in the press of

being a war against people joggers. If we are to win that war, I feel

what we need to do is to cut off the supply to the people joggers of

those who are desperate enough to pay to use them and of course that

means in the getting piece in the countries of origin, but in short to

medium term surely that means a series of essays and legal route

into Europe, expansion of the refugee families in and introduction

of humanitarian visas. Can the Secretary of State tell me today

what will happen to those seeking refuge who are intercepted in the

Aegean Sea? Will they be taken back to Turkey? And does that not been

run contrary to the principle of non-refinement, which is at the

centre of international refugee law? Will be done to keep under review

the Wiley questioned that is of Turkey as a safe entry to which

people can be returned. Aware of the reports from human rights watch,

describing people being sent from Turkey back to Syria? And what

impact does the government think that this action will have on the

flow of refugees elsewhere? The Secretary of State, I'm sure, will

be aware that last year, 35,000 people came to Europe through

Russia. What will be the impact on that land route if the sea route is

to be closed down? And what will this mean for the deployment of

resources elsewhere in the Mediterranean, in particular

assisting those travelling from Libya to Italy. The Secretary of

State will be aware that the guard cutters were the plate on that route

last year. Will they be available to help those who get into difficulty

on that route which has seen many more deaths by drowning man that in

the Aegean Sea? Victor beaker, if this is to be a war against people

trafficking then I feel that with all wars there'll be innocent

victims, and the end of the victims, it seems to me, will be those were

desperate enough to undertake the journey across the Aegean Sea,

across the land route and across other parts of the Mediterranean.

Will the Secretary of State in Germany and a sturdy house that

these people will be uppermost in the government s concerns. I'm

grateful to the right honourable gentleman, there are of course

already and a civic and of this people trafficking. Several hundred

have drowned this winter, several thousand drowned this year. Last

year, and it is in all our interest to reduce the number of people, who

attempt this dangerous crossing. He's right, we have to work at

cutting off the supply, much further back and we have done that I think

through our contribution to the reconstruction of Syria and our aid

programmes on the boat in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And much further

south and east and west Africa. So far as the creation of safe route is

concerned, I'm not convinced that establishing some routes as safer

than others will do anything to reduce the flow will stop on the

contrary, I think we need to increase the capacity, particularly

of the Turkish authorities and the Turkish coast guard to be able to

intercept these boats before they set off on what is a very very

dangerous crossing. He asked me as that the vaguely about interception.

The position is that if a boat in distress can be intercept it in

Turkish waters, I the Turkish authorities, perhaps alerted by the

helicopters that are now deploying from the international forest then

there is a greater chance the Turkish coast Guard will be able to

return that particular boat to the Turkish side. If they are

intercepted and international Greek waters they are more likely to be

taken to the Greek reception points. So far as the affect on the

alternative route that opened up last summer from Libya to Italy is

concerned, HMS Enterprise is still on station in the Iranian Sea and

indeed just yesterday rectitude around 100 people. What's important

in this I think, is to begin to establish a policy of return so

there is less incentive for migrants to attempt these extremely dangerous

crossing and less incentive is for the criminal gangs to make money out

of them doing so. If it is now established European union policy

and UK policy that illegal migrants should be returned, why aren't the

instructions to personnel on our bows to the BK people back to where

they have come from a page not have equal papers or are genuine asylum

seekers. My right honourable friend, the prime minister isn't Brussels

today discussing the entire issue of returns with European Union and

other countries who are attending that particular meeting. It is

unlikely that RFA Mounts Bay itself is going to be involved in rescuing

from both in distress, of course there is the law of the sea of place

to the vet obligation on her but she will be further off the coast and it

is more likely that a helicopter is going to be able to identify those

that are closer to shore and in immediate distress that can then be

picked up by the Turkish or Greek authority of and returned under

their law. Gratitude to the whole house as they

join the Nato deployment, this crisis demonstrates how British

Armed Forces play a critical role in peace and stability around the world

and in Britain. People trafficking is the worlds second largest form of

crime, taking advantage so of the most desperate people. We must deter

the victims from undertaking those journeys. The role RHF will plays a

small role and it is a reminder of how the world has been reduced by

a... I will asked the Secretary of State whether... Kenny tells whether

he believes the border force on the AGN are there not because of the

reduction enable capacity... How quickly does he think a new class

will be available to replace the other forgets. It demonstrates the

role in which we must enhance our global security. Does he believe

that the role we play may bring the refugee camps to the streets of

Britain? Mr Speaker, once again we saluted British servicemen and women

who are making the world safer and error, the government must make sure

that we strategy in place to make sure that air, sea and land bridge

and can always answer the call. And land Britain can always answer the

call. I'm grateful to the honourable gentleman and we send our good

wishes to the captain of Mounts Bay, 200 Marines embarked on her and the

helicopter squadron that is accompanying Mounts Bay. So far as

the sufficiency is concerned. There are five Nato ships stationed at the

moment. A German ship that is a flagship of the group, a Greek ship,

Canadian, Italian and Turkey ship. We will be making it six, spread out

across the Aegean Sea. Of course there are 22 other members of Nato

and I hope they too will be considering what contribution they

can make. Mounts Bay is a substantial ship and has the lab

form to contribute significantly to the survey ends, particularly of the

middle part of the Aegean and it will be operating on waters just

west of kiosk. As far as the relevance of the ship strategy is

concerned, we are developing a strategy as he knows it might of the

strategic Defense review and we will complete later this year. As far as

his attempt to bring in Nato and European Union membership into this

today, let me be clear with him, the mission in the sea between Libya and

Italy is a European union mission, because it employs that in many the

legal authorities that the European Union can add in dealing with the

new Libyan government. The group deployed, the force deployed in the

Aegean is a Nato mission because of course it involves a ship with a

Turkish Navy and is dealing largely with migraines from Turkey, which is

a member of Nato. Perfectly illustrating that we need to be

members of both Nato and the European Union. And that being

members of both gives us the best of both worlds.

Thank you Mr Speaker. I think my right honourable friend for his

statement and indeed the world maybe Ford their commitment to this

mission, demonstrating that we have an important role to play in

European defense and security. But my right honourable friend, by

making is clear that this is a Nato mission, underlines the point that

it is Nato that provides the security of our continent and not

the European Union. As the government seems to pretend. This is

a Nato mission, not the proposal of Germany, because Germany was leaving

this particular maritime standing crew. But the equally important

mission in Mediterranean Sea between Sicily and Libya is a European Union

mission. Their other examples of European Union missions in Bosnia,

off the Horn of Africa that have been equally effective in saving

lives. We welcome the decision by the government to bond with Nato in

trying to tackle this truly level of human trafficking in the

Mediterranean. But this has to be, you believe, a 2-pronged approach,

one that involves stopping the trafficking, but also rescuing the

dissembling of the refugees. People of my constituency have shown such

support and compassion to those refugees who have wound up in their

community. The Scottish Government have given refugees the best

possible chance to integrate as fully as possible. As this... The

need to take in a desperate children becomes more of a priority. And

looking at the Brickyard too bigger picture when will the Secretary of

State update this house as he promised he would do under

government's military shoji and Syria? -- strategy. On the first

Bolelli welcome the contribution that Scotland is making. I am sure

he will want to know that some of the Marines on board Mounts Bay are

bred from Scotland. And I am glad that he welcomes this particular

mission. As sparse as question on refugees is concerned, he will know

that we have already counted to take refugees from the camps in Syria and

indeed taking unaccompanied children that the UNC HR can identify further

west in Europe. We have played a leading part in that. As indeed we

have in the reconstruction conference that is taking place for

the future of Syria. As far as military operations in Syria are

concerned we will regularly up date the information available on the

ministry of defense website. I am very happy to answer any additional

questions that he has. Thank you Mr Speaker and I welcome of course is

that Jerry is a's statement on the role of the Navy and many... I would

like to understand, is this latest comment purely about moving bodies

back to coastlines or how to integrate the resettlement of

refugees in the chaos at our European neighbors find themselves

in? The purpose, the primary purpose of this mission, is to provide

monitoring, surveillance -- survey ends and... Which will better enable

the Turkish and wreak postcards to intercept boats and disrupt the

business model of the criminal traffickers. -- Greek Coast Guard.

And where they can intercept in either Turkish agreed waters they

are able to better rest of those on board before they get too far out to

sea in the more dangerous areas. Obviously, people are risking their

lives by making such a dangerous journey for the EU and Nato... But

for those who have RAD arrived, there are 30,000 of them now at the

Macedonian border in terrible weds and damp, cold conditions.

Children's with bronchitis, he has said that the Berdych government

will not do anything to take any of them. -- Britain. Where does he

think that they should go? The British Government is taking

refugees from Styria as we have Artie made clear and to some of

those have arrived here in the United Kingdom and my right

honourable friend the Prime Minister is urging his European counterparts

to get to grips with the problem of those who have arrived within

savaging of area and make sure that they are not being shuttled from one

spends to the next. And that year a more sensible policy. Thank you, Mr

Speaker. May I ask my right honourable friend about the rules

for interception? For instance, what would happen if the people on these

makeshift crops refused to get on board a Royal Navy vessel or indeed

some of the people traffickers opened higher on our sailors or

Marines? On the first point, certainly it has been our experience

so far last year that migraines in boats that are sinking or in

distress are very much welcome of the presence of the world maybe in

her eager to get on board the ships that we have deployed. They know

then that they are going to be saved. The traffickers themselves,

take great care not to be on these vessels. They have been launched by

those who are being smuggled. Where they can be identified, this is

where the monitoring and survey -- surveillance... They can be charged

and prosecuted as indeed they are not being in some parts of Turkey.

Can I welcome the deployment, as he knows, million migrants have been

through the EU and the Lasher, 885,000 degrees and Europe told is

that 90% of those who entered have come as a result of assistance from

criminal gangs. We're in this place because of the failure the EU, in

particular Frontex to do with these gangs properly. There has been

alternative the business model that he has described. Does he agree with

me that the critical country here is Turkey. And the issue is to stop the

boat leaving in the first place? What is keyed to that is giving

Turkey the resources that the EU promised of the 3 billion to help

with this problem? I agree with almost all that. It is important

that the union follows through on its commitment of financial help. It

is important we build up the capacity to help our Coast Guard. I

hope that this deployment will build up a picture of the information and

intelligence that the Turkish Coast Guard need so that they can start to

intercept these vessels before they have left Turkish borders and can be

returned to Turkey and that will be the clearest possible signal to

those who are paying a large sum of money that this journey will be

futile and they can then discourage them from making it. Is my right

honourable friend satisfied that Turkey is doing enough at the moment

to help itself? And tens of thousands of plastic injuries being

imported by Turkey from China to allow this trade to continue,

similarly there are blackjack is being sold is Mia, why isn't the

Turkish government doing something about this. Of course attackers

government can do more, but so can other governments in Greece, the

Greek government there is a lack of capacity in both Greece and Turkey

to do with what is now a migration on a substantial scale. We all need

to help, the European Union needs to get a group of its migration policy

and that Turkey will need help. But it too needs to be more robust in

dealing with these migration routes. We have decided, as a government,

with the largest navy in Europe that we too often be helping where we

can. I welcome the deployment and I wish the crew of Mounts Bay and the

-- all the best. What is the legal status of immigrants that they are

picked up by Mounts Bay, particularly if they claim asylum?

This is an issue we faced when we were in office in terms of operation

off the coast of Somalia. The legal position is that they cannot claim

asylum on board Mounts Bay if Mounts Bay is not in UK territory waters.

It is not as easy as the honourable gentleman might ankle. But we are

working with other governments to develop a policy that will ensure

that those were picked up in international waters can be returned

to Turkey, at present the position is if they are picked up in Turkish

waters of the Turkish Coast Guard that obviously they can be taken

back to Turkey. As I have said, currently in their picked up in

international waters and the boundary there is complex and indeed

disputed in the islands of the Eastern Aegean Sea. Their picked up

in Greek or international waters, at the moment they will be taking the

place of safety in Greece. This is a very lucrative trade for people

smugglers, there not the capacity in Turkey for them to do it on their

own. Aogo be sure that this is not a revolving door of migrants who are

actually being taken back to Turkey, allowed to stay there for a while

and then back again on the boat and trying their luck several times stop

what assurance can would be that that is not occurring? The best

assurance I can give is that we are determined to try and help Turkey

break this business model. In ensuring those who smuggle it said

women were unaccompanied children out on insecure boats, onto what is

a short but dangerous sea crossing, that they can be identified and will

be charged and prosecuted for the Turkish courts. In that we can

eventually, therefore, discourage the flow from the beginning. And

2014, we fail to finance properly the Frontex operations, the single

lack of strategy and emergency... Mounts Bay was announced two months

ago, and I am not sure what they are saying that we have not heard

before. On the specific point, can we invite the Secretary of State to

put in writing his understanding of the position picked up by Mounts

Bay. It is my understanding is closer to the other member than what

he has just enunciated. As far as the deployment and Mounts Bay is

concerned, it was announced late last night following the agreement

of the Secretary-General that was reached between Nato, Greece and

Turkey. She is not right on that. It is not the aim of Mounts Bay to pick

up large numbers of migrants. She will be further offshore than that.

As I said, the object is that she will be able to deploy her

helicopter and help with the rest of the Nato standing unit and help the

Turkish and Greek coast guards and the Frontex operation. Help them

build up their proper of where these migrants are setting off from and

hope -- help them be intercepted before they get out into

international waters. I am happy to write to her about it precisely, the

legal point that she raised. I visited the point of embarkation and

arrival and spoke to migrants and refugees I found them to be

generally well informed and to respond to clear signals went

government gives them. The migrants I spoke to were under the strong

impression, they are generally unlikely to be turned around in the

Mediterranean and were turned back to Turkey. On the experience of the

migrants I spoke to, surely my honourable gentleman will agree with

me that it is essential that Europe is brave and intercept as many

crowds as possible and returns them to Turkey because it will be heard

by migrants, refugees and the people smugglers. They will take notes and

it is the only sure way to deter the trend. I agree with my honourable

friend. The signals that are sent are picked up very quickly and very

clearly and by large numbers of young men who are further down the

chain in Pakistan, Afghanistan or indeed in Iraq. And as we have seen

over the Libyan coast line, further south in Africa itself. What has not

happened so far is that has not been any policy of returns. No one has

actually been sent back. And we need to start with those who are

intersecting in Turkish waters and get them sent back to Turkey so that

we start to stem the flow. On Friday I had the pleasure of meeting with

oasis center in Cardiff in my own constituency and with a group

supporting some of those making those dangerous journeys. I also met

with the UN humanitarian coordinator who raise concerns with me about the

widening instability, driving factors making people make this

journey. His attention being paid to those conflicts and instability as

well as in Syria and Iraq? The honourable member is right, when I

visited the ship after she had just started operation, she had Artie

picked up at least 20-25 different nationalities. That is why it is

important to help tackle this much further back, at a source, doing

what we can to stabilize these regions to grow their economies and

to give young man every incentive to stay behind them build a light there

rather than to set out on these very hazardous journeys. We are

contributing, substantially, to development in Africa, both on the

east and West. We have laterally announce peacekeeping measures to

serve sedan and Somalia. -- said I'm. I welcome the deployment and I

ask is that the jury of State whether the capability exists on the

Royal Navy ship to gather evidence in particular about the

seaworthiness of the boats and statements for many people that are

picked up, so that those can be used in future prosecutions to tackle

these criminal gangs that traffic them with yellow yes. Mounts Bay in

other units deployed there are well able to gather the information that

my honourable friend refers to. The key here is that Iniesta be brought

together and brought to the attention of the Turkish authorities

so that they can start to beer down more heavily on this particular

operations and to get the masterminds behind these criminal

gangs and get them charged and prosecuted to start to reduce the

flow. I appreciate that Mounts Bay is going to be on an observation and

deterrence mission, the chances are be involved in picking up migrants.

Can I ask what personnel will be there from the Home Office and what

training will be given to the staff in relation to working with

vulnerable children, isolated children and burnable adults who may

well be picked up and we don't want them to be returned back into the

hands of people traffickers. Goes to put on the border for us do have

that kind of training. Mounts Bay will be operating in deep

waters, it is less likely that Mounts Bay will be picking up large

numbers of migrants. It is Mounts Bay's helicopter that will be

identifying the boats in distress much closer to the shore and working

closely perspective Coast Guard. The EU Naval force concentrates on

Somali piracy, but it claims in its mandate to other EU nations, can he

explain for what reasons EU Naval force has not been able to meet this

ask without Nato support. When does he expect that you too expensive the

point that it is capable of deploying British naval power

without Nato? The maritime standing group two which operates in the

Eastern Mediterranean says it was the logical group to deploy to the

GN and it happens to comprise as well a Greek and eight Turkish ship

which is equally important when operating in the Aegean waters as

well as the Canadian, German and Italian vessel. It is the Nato group

in this instance that was ideally placed. As he says, that you may

will force commanded from... Is bearing down on piracy of. It has

been a very successful mission and that is an EU mission, to enable the

Pirates to be prosecuted you need legal instruments available to the

European Union which would not be available to Nato. Another

illustration of how disease. Be members of both the European Union

and of Nato. I welcome this announcement by the defense

secretary, Kim asking whether he foresees the need to have additional

deployment of Royal Navy ships in the Mediterranean to assist those

that aren't in there, including the two border force cutters. In respect

of those two cutters, what assessment has been made on the

impact of policing our own waters as well, which is obviously of equal

importance to people living in the United Kingdom? We will certainly

keep our deployment under review. As I said, we have Mounts Bay and the

three border force cutters in the Aegean Sea. HMS enterprise and the

Iranians see helpings of police the root between Libya and Sicily. We

are able to do that if for understanding commitments we made

both in the balls and in home waters. The border force cutters

have the systems of military personnel on board supplementing the

border force and adding force protection as well. Chancellor

Merkel's unilateral and ill-advised announcement that Germany's borders

were open and everyone was welcome usually compounded the migration

problem by creating a huge pool factor. To my routable Fran Kilby

house would assurance he has had from the German Chancellor but she

will not repeat this mistake. -- can my honourable friend. The German

Chancellor is in Brussels today engaging with my right honourable

friend the Prime Minister, in a search for better control of

migration policy. As far as the legal basis for what is happening

inside Europe at the moment, that is the Schengen area which we are not a

part of. We still have control of our own borders. That is not of

thought was of the responsibility, the humanitarian responsibility, to

help where we can. That is the thought was is one of the larger

countries in Europe in continuing to call on the European countries to

get some grip of the migration crisis. With more refugees being

sent back to Turkey, and must accept the Jerry is state again, questions

posed by my right honourable friend which is among what protection is in

place for the refugees going back to Turkey that they will be sent back

to Syria. Is he confident that Turkey is a country where refugees

can safely be returned to? We certainly abide by international

obligations under the refugee convention, which means that we

could not return any individual to a country where they might be in

danger of persecution or inhuman treatment. Which is why those picked

up in international waters or in Greek waters will not be returned to

Turkey. In the first instance, there are discussions going on with the

Turkish government to be sure that anyone who is returned to Turkey,

from outside Turkish waters can be dealt with safely. In associate

myself with tributes that are being paid so Royal Navy Marines and

border force percentile, with the secretary of state agreed that it is

not just those people we should be thinking, but also their loved ones

and families the people that leave at home. Vicki sure that separation

is that short as possible, will further support can we provide on

the policing front to go after these criminal gangs that prey on human

weakness and people's desperation? My honourable friend is right to

draw the House's attention to the hidden heroes, the families who

stand behind our service men and women and who of course cannot know,

because it is the nature of service life how these unexpected

deployments are likely to arise and opt it will not know just how long

they are expected to last. That's often. As far as the one

intelligent, there is increasing cooperation with counterterrorism

and intelligence sharing with the authorities in Turkey. Turkey itself

has been subject to terrorist attacks from Daesh. And has every

interest in cooperating with us. My right honourable friend has

fielded many questions on the terrible situation off the coast of

Turkey but has also been pointing out that there is a migration

challenge from North Africa across the Mediterranean. Can you say was

that the Italian naval forces and Coast Guard are taking to enhance

their ability to intercept refugee boats? My honourable friend is right

to draw these house s attention to the other route which opened up

significantly last summer and is beginning to open up again as the

season moderate. It is a longer route, a much more dangerous route.

In answer to his specific point, yes, the Italians are bearing the

brunt of the naval effort. South of Sicily, they are there with the most

ships and they are committed to continuing to develop the reception

centres in the processing of those migrants that are rescued and taken

to Sicily. Does my right honourable friend agree with me that this Royal

Naval deployment shows the importance of the type 26 global

combat ship programme, not least because these frigates will have the

flexibility to embark passionate and play a really important role in

future military and efforts, and not least of course because David Brown

gear systems in my constituency which he's visited are in the

obliging. I recall my visit to David Brown and his D gearing systems

already been designed and produced. He's right about the usefulness of

the forthcoming type 26 frigates. What's important above all in this

particular operation of course is the ability of a ship to carry a

helicopter and that is what the Mounts they will bring to this

particular operation, but I note his point in respect to the future

development of the type 26 designed. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I recently

spent a day at the as part of the Armed Forces to learn more about the

crucial break up -- work of the Royal Navy and of our armed forces.

Can my right honourable friend outline the work and role of the

Royal Navy to date in helping to tackle the migration crisis? The

Royal Navy has been engaged on the Libyan route, last summer. One ship

was first on the scene and rescued several thousand migrants and helped

them to be resettled in Italy. HMS Enterprise is on station Mir now.

Continuing that particular task. She rescued around 100 migrants

yesterday, and in the Aegean, Mounts Bay is on station as I said west of

keels, I imagine it will not be too long before her helicopter is

involved in physically saving lives as the Royal Navy has done already

and has done for the centuries. The Royal Navy deployment announced

today will turn up heat on the traffickers and help towards keeping

migrants and asylum seekers say. Does my right honourable friend a

groove that our ability to take these steps alongside our other

commitments underscores why it is right to increase defence spending

for each year of this Parliament? Yes it does and the Royal Navy

itself was the biggest beneficiary of the increase in defence is

bending that my right honourable friend and out in his July budget

and which we gave more details of in the strategic defence review. It is

worth the house noting that defence expenditure will start to rise again

in three weeks' time, the first time or six years and will then go on

rising every year of this Parliament because we are putting the public

finances in order from what we inherited and because we are running

a strong economy. A model village on the Greek border with Macedonia have

hundreds of stranded refugees awaiting a decision at the EU summit

which could determine their fate. It has been reported a young boy has

been killed after he was accidentally electrocuted at the

camp. Does the Minister accept that the human cost of this crisis is too

high and that it clearly shows that much more needs to be done to tackle

this problem, simply by deploying ships to the Aegean Sea? Clearly

lives have been lost already. Thousands have drowned in the

Mediterranean last year, several hundred have drowned already this

winter. But I hope the honourable a would not decry the contribution not

we are making, the Royal Navy saved lives last year and will be saving

lives through this operation this year. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I think

my right honourable friend for his characteristic courtesy in coming to

the house and person to answer the urgent question. There is a very

adjusting case study between the European Union and Nato that Nato

manages to get on and save lives in a problem for which the EU at least

have to take a large share of the blame, exacerbated by the

consequences of Chancellor Merkel s incision. And it was -- while Nato

is there actively doing things, the best and those mealy-mouthed meeting

of ministers that can be providing Dave European Union does not think.

I think my honourable friend s views on this are fairly well-known and I

to tell him that sadly I do not entirely share them. But to me, it

does not really in the end matter under whose auspices this mission is

organised. The European union mission is there between Libya and

this happens to be a Nato mission. What's more born I think is that the

mission takes place, that we do get involved in saving lives under whose

ever auspices of the mission happens to be organised. Thank you, Mr

Speaker. Does my right honourable friend agree that the fact that Nato

has had to be called upon to try to protect the Greek border is further

evidence the European Union is incapable of securing its own

borders and people will be well advised to bear this in mind when

they vote in the referendum on the 23rd of June? My honourable friend

and I may not agree on everything that people should have to bear in

mind when it comes to the referendum, both recent and Turkey

are members of Nato. And if that is why I think this mission has a

greater chance of success under Nato auspices. I hope other countries

also will join it and I hope that despite what my honourable friend

said earlier, I hope all of -- there will be a successful outcome to

discussions in Brussels today and that the union will rise to the

challenge of coping with what is a quite extraordinary migration

crisis. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Over the last few months I have been

meeting both Marines and serviceman on ships of women who have been

involved in the rescued and some of the details they show our are

breaking therefore it is welcome they are bringing their

professionalism to this deployment. With the Minister agree with me that

it's absolutely vital we do break this link between being smuggled in

a dangerous unseaworthy boat to Europe and be resettled and that is

vital to smashing the business model these criminal gangs profit from? I

absolutely agree with that, there are clearly people smugglers in

Turkey who are making huge amounts of money from this operation. And

you have no care at all as to whether those that they've pushed

off in these unstable boats are going to make it safely to the Greek

island that they are sailing to. The sooner we can start to disrupt this

particular evil trade be better. Quarter. -- order.

Parliament is all about getting inside. Which party do you join? Are

you left or right? But what if you just aren't a political animal more

see yourself above the party system? Well, in the House of Lords there is

a third way. Those who pick that different path said here. Right

across the middle of the chamber. They are known as the cross benches,

the PMs who do not belong to any political party. They're not a small

group, there's over 180 of them, so they are a force to be reckoned

with. They regularly meet to discuss the coming debates but don't take a

collective view or have a party whip, so they can often click and

vote for away from the same issue. They do not have a leader, but