15/09/2014 Scotland 2014

The referendum rhetoric is getting louder.

The country's future is in your hands.

And the fight for your vote is getting fierce.

Two very different visions for the future of Scotland were laid

out today by the UK Prime Minister and the Scottish First Minister.

The one thing they seem to agree on is that this is a once

in a lifetime chance to decide the future of Scotland.

Whether the vote is Yes or No we will not be doing it all again

So whose vision will Scotland choose?

This campaign has been the most expensive ever fought in Scotland.

So where did the money come from and what was it spent on?

And would you vote Yes if meant Scotland could win the World Cup?

Vote No to see Scottish athletes succeed in Team GB in the Olympics?

We'll look at the role sport plays in the referendum and how it

David Cameron delivered a personal and a passionate speech

in favour of continuing the United Kingdom in Aberdeen today.

But once again he addressed an invited audience and didn't dare

Alex Salmond meanwhile surrounded himself with Yes supporting business

leaders trying to counter the threats from more big companies

that independence would be bad for the economy.

Our Political editor Brian Taylor has been watching the day?s events.

A quiet word in a busy Hamilton cafe. Nicola Sturgeon promises that

pensions will be protected and she urges the elderly to vote yes to

improve prospects for the next generation. I believe that people

understand the choice we have. I think people will port yes to keep

control of the future of Scotland. On the other side of the campaign

former Defence Secretary John Reid at the ship yard in Glasgow. It is

not the national lottery. You cannot go back next week and asked for

another ticket. It is not buying a car where you get warranty and you

can take it back if it does not work. This is for life. It is the

jobs of these people here and their children in the future. Tonight in

Aberdeen the Prime Minister warned that the family of nations

comprising the UK with break apart if there was a Yes vote. He said

Scotland should not be motivated by a desire to harm the Tories. Head,

heart and soul we want you to stay. Do not mix up the temporary and the

parents. Do not think, I am a student of politics so I will walk

out and never come back. If you do not like me, I will not be here

forever. They do not like this Government, it will not last

forever. But if you leave the United Kingdom, that will be forever. Home

again. Alex Salmond back in the North over he was born. He said the

next time the Prime Minister comes to Scotland he will be negotiating

the terms of independence after a Yes vote. He dismissed claims that

businesses struggle in an independent Scotland. This, the land

of Adam Smith, nobody sensible bullies other than this country

which founded the science of economics, this country which gave

the world so much, how did they see that this country is not capable of

running its order fears? Today the argument is on the students of

Scotland. On Thursday its moves to the polling stations.

How did the leaders do today? It is a remarkable campaign. This

all passion spent? Far from it. To emotional and emotive speeches. One

from David Cameron in Aberdeen, inevitably a fitting visit given the

global crisis in which Britain is involved, but he still felt it

important to come to Scotland. And he most disavowed his own party,

seeing that he and his party would not be about forever. It was

astonishing. From Alex Salmond, boisterous support of the team

around him made up for the weather. Reach actress" passion -- he reached

it resend all of passion when he referred to Adam Smith.

What can we expect over the next couple of days?

More on the negative from each side. The union side will top up the

negatives as they see it of independence. The positive side --

The Independent side will say. Are we going to get final details of

what war powers offered will be? Will we get final details of the

sheep of the economy in an independent Scotland? We are not. I

am struck by how many people are still seeing, can somebody not come

to a conclusion and explain to us which way is right that which we is

wrong. It is not going to be like that. Right up until the moment when

voters go into the polling booths they will be faced with two offers

and they have to decide, and they have to choose.

Joining me now, Campaign Director for

And Chief Executive of Yes Scotland, Blair Jenkins.

It was a passionate case for the United Kingdom that we heard from

the Prime Minister today. It was the UK that abolished slavery, set up

the Enlightenment, but a fire under the industrial revolution. He should

have been making these speeches before now. We have been making

those speeches and argue at all the way through the campaign. The other

thing we saw to date was thousands of people gathering in Trafalgar

Square. We are used to seeing the Tartan Army beer, but today we saw

people from the rest of the UK giving a passionate message that

they want us to stay. The last week has been about the head, economic

risks. Now we are talking, rightly, about the emotional side of things.

Alex Salmond repeated again the message that we heard over the

weekend, but this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to

vote for independence. David Cameron has said for quite a a while but

this is irreversible. Is this because you are worried that people

might be tempted to try further devolution for 15 years and then

think they could vote for independence afterwards? I always

thought this referendum would come down to the choice between

independence and devolution. It was up to those who believe in

independence to define what we mean by independence. Was up to the

people who wanted to advocate devolution to define what they

meant. It is only our campaign that has met our part of the obligation.

Whether they agree with us or not people are very clear as to what is

proposed in the independence proposal. People are not clear on

what happens if there was a No vote and what happens in terms of further

devolution. The Prime Minister said the status quo is not on the ballot

paper, yet nobody can tell us what the alternative to that is. The idea

that the proposition being put forward is less or more clearly

defined... He has got 650 pages in a White Paper. 650 pages that'll tell

us we will be in a Eurovision Song contest, but that will not tell us

what currency we will have. Where is the currency that tells us how you

will marry at the promises of Labour, Liberal Democrat and the

Conservatives? All three parties have set out their policies. All

three parties have come together to see that is broad consensus over

income tax and welfare. But they do not agree on taxation powers. Nobody

has any idea what they are voting for. The difference between the

three parties is the difference between devolving three quarters of

income tax to Scotland and 100% of income tax. Nationalists think that

is worth dealing up the 300-year-old union for. The rest of us recognise

that the parties can get together and work out the details. After

people had voted. You are seeing that he does will be worked out

after people have bolted. We are not so arrogant to think that we have

all the answers. We will involve the Scottish people in this process as

we could the Calman Commission to improve devolution. We will involve

people like where Jenkins who have rightly said that if there is a Yes

vote date will not erase devolution. There is a broad consensus in

Scotland over devolution. There is a broad consensus of what that looks

like. Now we will deliver that. We will love it in Scotland over

devolution. There is a broad consensus of what that looks like.

Now we will deliver that. We will deliberate and will you work with

these devolution puzzles? -- devolution processors? I certainly

would. Will we see both of you embracing each other on Friday. A

firm handshake. The uncertainty with the No vote is we do not know who

will be driving the chain. We do not know what cargo the chain will be

carrying. People are realising that job-creating powers to protect

public services, the only way to do that is with a Yes vote. Stay with

me for a moment. We have more to talk about.

From JK Rowling to the lottery winning Weirs.

Donations have poured in to bankroll both sides

The final tally shows that more than ?4.5 million has been donated to

the rival sides - dwarfing the spend of any other political

Our Economics Correspondent Colletta Smith has the details.

In the fourth and final donations period, the three weeks to 5th

September, The Yes Scotland campaign received ?120,000.

The majority of that, ?100,000, came from William Tait Senior who

owns a fishing business, while Sir George Mathewson, former

On the other side, Let's Stay Together, the UK campaign

that was today backed by David Beckham, was gifted ?10,000 by

It means the final totals for the lead campaign groups stand

at just over ?1.5 million for the Yes campaign and nearly ?2.5

When you add in the smaller groups such as Christians for Independence

and Let's Stay Together the Yes side have received more than ?1.8 million

pounds, while the No side have been given nearly 2.8 million.

That's 66% more for the pro-union groups.

So what's all the money being spent on and to what extent could

Everything is important in this campaign. It is very close.

Billboards, posters, canvassing. The amount of stuff we are getting

through our letter boxes as incredible. It is less important how

much money you have, it is more reported about how you get that

message out and how many people can repeat the message. This is not

that. Read when it comes to donations. The overall total will be

higher. There is individual party spending. Any donations given to the

prounion parties on the SNP have not been included in this total. It will

be higher. We will get that figure in November. It does not include

smaller donations. Anything under ?7,500 is not registered by the

Electoral Commission in this formal process. Anecdotally we have heard

people are giving smaller donations. That is not included. But

it all adds up to an even bigger total. The donations have dropped

off as the campaign has gone on. That reflects the rules of the

election Commission. There are tighter rules about spending as the

campaign has gone on. tighter rules about spending as the

restrictions have over the last year or more. It

obviously does have a significant impact. They have done research, and

it is interesting to see the market analysis about where to put those

billboards. They obviously believe it has an impact. But we were

hearing in that clip there about social media, which is free, and can

be organised much more cheaply, so it is not necessarily the biggest

spenders who will be it is not necessarily the biggest

So how might Scotland's most famous footballer but?

Maybe I, maybe no. It turns out, living in England, King Kenny

doesn't even have a vote. I never get involved in politics, and I

never will, so... I'm not intelligent enough to understand

what it means, and certainly not well versed enough to let someone

run on the back of my opinion. I wouldn't have a clue what would

happen. It looks as though Lindsay Sharp could get the silver medal.

By contrast, the position of Scotland's silver medallist Lindsay

Sharp couldn't be clearer. She's based in England, and if Scotland

votes yes, she would opt to compete for Great Britain at the Olympics.

British athletics is based down here, and they are able to provide

us with every thing we need, we have videos and psychologists and

nutritionists, and all the facilities in one place, which I

know Scotland is able to offer for some sports, for example swimming.

At but for example, Chris Hoy had to spend a lot of time in Manchester,

Andy Murray is not in Scotland bring much, and myself, I spend a lot of

time down south, because I don't think Scotland have the funding

resources to get athletes to elite level a lot of the time well,

athletes are entitled to their opinion, and Lindsay Sharp is

obviously entitled to hers, but there are different opinions within

the athletes. Some, of course, see the big

opportunity for Team Scotland, and remember, there are many athletes

that don't get to compete for Team GB because of the tightness of the

numbers, so Team Scotland will give an opportunity to many more athletes

to compete with the bass and the international sporting stage. The

big question is, when it comes to funding, Scotland's top sports

stars, will they be Better Together or independent?

I think there would be a difficulty for athletes in the short term,

because of the arrangements in place, which are inevitably

UK-based. I think one thing that will be important would be, there is

no disadvantage to those athletes in the short term, because of the

arrangements in place, which are inevitably UK-based. I think one

thing that will be important would be, there is no disadvantage to

those athletes in the is not in any sense harmed by a political

decision. I think if you look over the medium to long-term, there would

need to be a commitment, of course, by the Scottish Government to

replicate or to create a similar structure which would allow that

support to exist for athletes. And the Scottish Government insists

there will be funding for Scotland's elite athletes

postindependence. UK sport is funded through the taxpayers of all of

these islands, so we would want to make sure that the resources are

currently go to UK sport after independence, obviously, those

resources will stay here in Scotland, and there will have to be

some transitional arrangements between now and 2016, which we will

sit down and discuss with Uk Sport. If we all keep the needs of our

athletes in mind, I'm sure we can do that in a way that ensures they have

the continuity and resources they require.

Independent Better Together, how will Scotland's sporting future be

best served? And will it actually implement the way any of us vote?

Joining me now are the former European Championship

gold medallist Brian Whittle, who's Better Together,

and the former footballer Michael Stewart, who's in the Yes camp.

Brian, you have brought your gold medals, I can see. Do you really

think you would have been less likely to win them if you had been

in an independent Scotland Umag not less likely, I wouldn't have. These

three medals here, I brought them in particularly because they are part

of the Great Britain four x 14. We won three European titles. I

absolutely would not have won those metals, and more than that, maybe

the Great Britain team wouldn't have won these medal either, because we

won them as a team, and you could say we were Better Together. So,

what we are doing would be removing this opportunity, especially in team

sports, from the Scottish playing fields, and I think sport is very

much performance lead, and without aspiration or inspiration, I would

worry for our youth. Michael Stewart, your own career

involved you going to Manchester United before you came back to

captain hearts. That would have been harder in an independent Scotland,

wouldn't it? Do you not believe Brian about sportsmen being Better

Together? I don't particularly see how me

moving to Manchester would have been more difficult in an independent

Scotland. Plenty of my colleagues down there were from the Republic of

Ireland, and went on to have successful careers. So I don't think

that has any impact. On the Olympic stage and things like that, the

biggest thing that will be a benefit with a Yes vote is the greater

opportunities. Brian talked about the Team GB winning the gold medal,

he wouldn't have won it. All we need to do to see the benefits for

independence of Scotland, and Team Scotland, is look at the swimming

team we put together at Stirling University. There is such a

world-class amount of talent in there, and all of those guys are not

going to be able to go to Rio in 2016 if there is a Team GB. That, to

me, is a tragedy, and what you are not going to be able to go to Rio in

2016 if there is a Team GB. That, to me, is a tragedy, and what you're we

had a pretty competitive Scottish team in Rio in 2016 for the the

swimming was absolutely fantastic. I was down at the award of the other

night. Of course, he is wrong, because there is 24 Olympic sports,

Scotland won 14 medals in 2012, as an independent Scotland, we would

have won three. That would have been one training in Spain, one in

Manchester, and one in the USA. All the rest will medals as part of the

Great Britain team, the hockey, for example. And that level, the ability

to win medals in teams at that level would be removed. Completely. There

are 24 Olympic sports, and there is not a chance that Scotland can fund

24 Olympic sports to the level that they are funded at in Great Britain,

and there are loads of arguments against wide we would be Better

Together. Michael Stewart, we have seen quite

a lot of high profile athletes saying they are supporting the

union, and some say it is because of access to training facilities and

regimes that there are across Great Britain. It is interesting that

Brian talked about one athlete being in Spain, one in America. Listen,

money goes where the talent is. There is no argument that because we

are part of the UK, these people shouldn't be competing and training

in America or Spain. Mo Farah is over in America. I think it is a

fallacy to suggest that the swimming team would all be going to Rio. They

wouldn't. It describes simple. And if you look at the Scotland team

that took part in the Commonwealth Games, the vast majority of the

medal winning athletes were funded and trained solely in Scotland, so

we can compete, and we can fund. We are a vastly wealthy nation that can

back it up. And one point about the athletes backing the union, I'd just

like to make a quick point here that there is a lot of people within the

sporting world who have been quiet and, that I know personally, who

wanted to come out and speak on behalf of yes-macro, and have been

quietened down. I am all up for hearing people's opinions. That is

part of what has been a great debate here, but too many people have been

quiet and on the sporting issue. Well, there are accusations that

when it comes to the cultural world, the sporting world and on

both sides. But Michael, he makes a basically

good point, people can train across the world and at the moment they

would not be prevented from doing so in an independent Scotland. No, they

would not be stopped at all. But the thing about this is, the first time

I walked into a Great Britain room, I walked into a room with Daley

Thomson, Sebastien Coe, Steve Ovett, Chris Akabusi, Derek Redmond, and

others. It was incredible. I ran for Great Britain 45 times and I learned

so much from those people. It is kind of like, if you remove the

Great Britain layer, it is like asking somebody to move from school

straight at university. You had to learn your trade through the

levels. We would be in trouble if they remove that level. He still

hasn't answered the question. 40 medals at 22. We would have won

three. Team spot would be destroyed. It is a question we will have to

wait for another day. Thank you very much for coming in to talk to us

tonight. Now let's take a look

at the news around the world. China daily looks at the rising

temperature in Scotland at the latest polls show rival camps

running desperately close. Russia today reports on a pro-independence

rally that took place outside BBC Scotland yesterday to protest

against perceived bias. While the Wall Street Journal takes the

referendum abroad, looking at how the debate is playing out in

America. Now let's take a look at the rest

of the day's news. Joining me now,

the Observer's Kevin McKenna and Thank you both for coming in. We

will pick up some of the other referendum developments there have

been today. It seems to Patrick Harvie has gone a little bit of

script, and as we know, Yes Scotland have been very keen to reassure us

that the Queen would remain head of state. Now he says he thinks she

should be challenged if there is a Yes vote, which is contrary to

mainstream yet opinion, but maybe not a surprise? Yes, but I think

there is also quite a lot of people in England who are Republicans,

because in England, there has been this debate for years about the

monarchy. Personally, I would be very surprised if Alex Salmond, if

it is to be a yes-macro on Thursday, why he wouldn't want to actually

actively seek the council of this great lady, who, let's face it, has

the wisdom of ages. If it were me, I would be beating a pact to her,

because she has seen a dozen prime ministers come and go. She has got

piles of wisdom that I would, especially in the fledgling years of

a newly independent country, I would want to be borrowing rather than

talking about ditching her. Do you think she would want to share it

with an independent Scotland Umag as you made a guarded comment on Sunday

saying people should think carefully. Absolutely, you have to

feel sorry for her. She made this comment to a well wish, and clearly

did not mean it for public conception. I think she clearly does

have a huge amount of experience, and Alex Salmond has been very clear

that he wants her to remain as Queen of Scots. I think when you actually

look at the Yes Scotland literature on this, for all that Patrick Harvie

is part of the campaign and has made his position very clear, they say

that Yes Scotland does not represent a government as such, and the

Scottish Government have been very clear that they want to see her as

Queen of Scots and that the final decision will be taken by the

people. I don't think it is too much to worry about.

We know that throughout the campaign, there have been

accusations of bullying and threatening and intimidating

behaviour. It does seem to have ratcheted up a notch as we get

closer to the boat. Alistair Carmichael was complaining today

that No supporters were being jostled in the street, people had

tweeted pictures of signs being defaced. Ruth Davidson tweeted a

picture of an No sign that had had trade to watch sprayed across it. No

sooner do you see that, then Yes Scotland will show that their

posters have had Vote No scrawled across them, and that is just one

example of some of the things that are going on out there. Do we need

to worry that it is getting nasty out there? I don't think we need to

worry. I think it is natural that this is happening now, very close to

the vote, and people's passions are running high. However, what a thing

has not been helpful is the language that has been used from the very

start of the campaign. It has been confrontational, oppositional,

characterised as them and us, and so I am not surprised that that is

where we are now. As you say, it is happening on both sides, but the big

Alex Salmond described it as a joyful campaign. I don't think it

has been joyful. I think in some areas, it has been very positive,

but I think we have seen a lot of that abuse, and it is a concern, and

I think it will continue. Alex Salmond say the 99.9% of people in

this campaign have conducted themselves admirably, and only a

tiny fringe are getting nasty. Is that true? Yes, I tend to agree with

that. The instances that you outlined there, they have been acts

of social delinquency, which you are going to get, no matter what

campaign. This has been running for two years, and most political

campaigns, let's face it, only run for five or six weeks. I think

you're too previous guests, the two Blairs, let's face it, a lot of them

can take great heart from the way both of them have conducted

themselves, and they have been on the road for a couple of years, and

their behaviour has been exemplary, and they have conducted this debate

in an extremely good-natured way. They are remarkably polite to each

other at matter I fear they will miss each other. We were saying

earlier, I think many -- both of them have probably seen each other

more than their own spouses. I hope they have a good drink together when

it is over. That have a good look at the Let's

Stick Together rally into other swear this evening. There were a

couple of thousand people, certainly wanted Scotland to stay with the

union. A quick look at the pictures. We say no! We say no! So, that is in

contrast to the rallies that there were across Scotland at the

weekend, both Yes and No rallies. Doesn't make any difference how many

people turn up into other swear? It is very nice to see that they care

about is up here from time to time! They have noticed what is happening.

I don't think it will particularly sway many people, because I think a

lot of these events are for activists, and they celebrate with

other activists, and I'm not entirely sure people passing by Will

be swayed one or another. We are on their agenda, finally, though? Yes,

absolutely, and easily they were interviewing the theme of family

today, which David Cameron and Bob Geldof made their theme. Thank you

very much. That's all from us tonight.

Thank you for watching. I'll be back

at the same time tomorrow night.