Education Scottish Parliament

The Cabinet Secretary will take questions at the end of the

statement. No interventions. I will ask any members who wish to ask

questions, press the request to speak buttons as soon as. -- as soon

as possible. I call on John Swinney. Over the

last ten years, the Government has been implementing an ambitious

programme to reform post-16 education. The purpose has been

clear and consistent. To create a national sector more efficient and

effective and able to meet stretching measures and outcomes. We

remain committed to creating a sector better suited to the national

pretties, including the delivery of skills and opportunities

particularly for young people to meet the needs and the economy. I am

confident our colleges have a clear focus on delivering skilled

workforce for the regions and have developed new and enhanced

relationships with employers around curriculum planning, work experience

and employability skills. Delivering the right curriculum in the right

place has been critical to this development, alongside significantly

improved partnership arrangements with local authorities,

universities, schools and community planning partnerships. The focus is

now very much on full-time learning opportunities leading to recognised

qualifications and employment, particularly for young people. The

evidence increasingly demonstrates this approach is working. The number

of full-time funded students aged 16-24 has increased by over 11%

since 2006-7. Unemployment is third lowest in the European Union. In

2015-16, almost 4000 more students successfully completed full-time

courses in both further and higher education, leading to recognised

qualifications, than in 2008-2009. Colleges are also delivering for

students over 25 and over. The sector has also delivered for women

with the number in full-time courses up by over 12% over the same period.

Our colleges play a key role in our success in higher education, over

41% of all full-time college activity in 2015-16 was in higher

education, the highest proportion ever. Colleges are playing a crucial

role in widening access. Many students from the most challenging

backgrounds begin post-16 education in college. Over 16% of college

provision goes to students from the 10% most deprived areas in 2014-15

and over 29% of all students came from the 20% most deprived

communities. These are real achievements for our colleges to be

proud of. Staff, lecturing and support, and the students have all

helped to make this happening. I am in no doubt our college sector is

better placed than ever to enable students to flourish and succeed and

to build the workforce Scotland's employees need now and in the

future. As we move forward, the colleges must continue to develop

and innovate to deliver the type of learning society, the economy and

individuals need for the future. I know all college staff and leaders

are committed to this ambitious programme of change and improvement.

I appreciate we have seen significantly restructuring of the

sector to deliver high-quality further and higher education.

College staff have played the full part in securing the necessary and

beneficial changes and I want to commend them for their commitment. I

also understand the is more to be done to secure the vision we have

fought a world-class college sector. We agreed with college employers and

staff from the outset that a harmonised approach to play, terms

and conditions for lecturers and support staff was integral to

creating a modern flexible sector. We agreed that this would best be

delivered by a system of national bargaining that rightly places

responsibility for reaching agreement with representatives of

employers and staff through the national joint negotiating

committee. The present dispute has its roots in the agreement reached

last March by that national joint negotiating committee and a

disagreement between the College employers Association on the

relationship between pay and terms and conditions. On page, the precise

levels of increase will vary depending on personal circumstances,

the agreement already reached will see all unpromoted lecturing staff

receive an average pay rise of 9% over a three-year period. This means

unpromoted staff will now earn up to 40,000 and ?26 per year, at the top

of the salary scale. Whilst some details remain to be resolved, that

part of the agreement has been in place. The. What has not been agreed

the terms and conditions. -- in place for some time. They agree in

principle to harmonisation, but the nature of the harmonisation is

disputed. The employers are clear that a national pay award has to be

linked to agreement on harmonised terms and conditions, but another

organisation maintains a should be set. Staff teaching hours and

annually should be the same across the country instead of varying from

college to college as they do now, they disagree on what the harmonised

terms and conditions should be. Two key issues, the number of core

teaching hours and the number of annual leave days. The employers

have proposed up to 24 hours per week of core teaching time for the

majority of lecturers. The AIS has proposed up to 22. The union does

not accept this. On annual leave, the employers have offered the

existing staff retain current entitlement without change while new

staff would have 56 days per year. That can one has proposed 64 days

per year for all lecturers with no detriment for existing staff. This

dispute is not about pay, with the issues of core teaching hours and

annual leave being among the most difficult to resolve. Talks have

been under way for some time. The Minister for further education,

higher education and science has met each side on several occasions over

the last six months to encourage and facilitate a resolution. Over the

past few weeks, the sides have made welcome progress but a settlement

has not yet been reached. We remain in the middle of a period of strike

action which is having an impact on students. Four days have already

been lost to strikes since the end of last month with a further two

days planned for this week. They plan to escalate the action to three

strike days a week until the beginning of next month. That

escalation will see the impact on students deepen and harden, with

some at real risk in this crucial end of year period of not being able

to progress to future years study or qualify. That is not acceptable to

me. I therefore decided alongside the Minister for further education,

higher education and science, we decided to formally intervene and we

met with both sides separately on Sunday evening to this effect.

Through this interaction, we actively sought a way forward that

allows both sides to work constructively for a solution so the

sector can focus on delivering the education it students have a right

to expect. There are five key elements to this intervention.

Firstly, I emphasised in both meetings my serious concerns about

the detrimental and disruptive impact of the current dispute on

students and this should be to the fore of all of our thinking.

Secondly, I insisted a robust evidence base was needed to

establish baselines on the issues of key importance, the annual leave and

contact time, so that it could be fairly assessed. Without this, and

undisputed understanding of the current terms and conditions of

lecturers, there is no prospect for agreement. Thirdly, in both

meetings, I reaffirmed the Government's absolute commitment to

securing national bargaining, I know there is a concern on the part of

unions that the employers are not committed to national bargaining, I

therefore made it crystal clear to the employers Association my firm

expectation that they would act collectively to deliver national

bargaining. Fourthly, most significantly, I informed the union

and the employers that I was making a significant change to the way that

talks will be conducted from now on. We are placing a Scottish Government

appointed mediator in the talks, charged with seeking to help the

parties to break the deadlock. A highly respected Queens council and

widely recognised as a leading mediator and facilitator. As an

independent guide to the process, he will now facilitate the talks in an

effort to bring about improved relations between both parties,

encourage effective communication and respectful dialogue, help

identify options for progress, and work with the parties to try to

break the logjam. Speak Anglo and followed while this

process of active dispute resolution is in progress. I asked that the

union give this careful consideration following our meeting,

and I reiterate that the quest to date. Presiding officer, I want this

dispute to end, and I want agreement to be reached on harmonising pay and

conditions from college staff tonight 's customer -- through

national bargaining. For us to directly intervene would be the end

of national bargaining. I am not prepared to consider that. I

therefore aren't both parties to find common ground and achieve an

agreement. This will enable all to move forward together to the benefit

of this sector and its students, the students and colleges deserve

nothing less. There will now be around 20 minutes for questions. Can

I think the Cabinet Secretary for early sight of the statement. Can I

also restate the Scottish Conservative's very strong

condemnation of the strike action taken place. I'm sure I'm not the

only parliamentary who has received letters from constituents very angry

about the action taking place, especially at this crucial time of

exams. My first question is to as what discussions the Minister is

having with the colleges to ensure that and the marking of these exams,

consideration is been given to the circumstances of the industrial

action. Secondly, on page eight the Cabinet surgery has earned very

robust evidence for the baseline. Given the nature of this very

long-running dispute and the commitments the Scottish Government

originally made, can I ask why has taken over a year for him to make

this call for evidence which would clearly be so crucial to dissolve

the dispute. Finally, what timescale has been put in place for this

baseline evidence to be put in place by both sides of that mediation can

be effective. First of all, Ken ICT Liz Smith... And I note that as

several things she has to say from her perspective as a Conservative

education spokesman, but my perspective in this is to resolve

this dispute, because of the effect it is having on student and their

well-being and their prospects, and that is what is driving the actions

that I take forward, and that is why I want to secure an agreement

between both parties to resolve these issues. Secondly, on the

questions of marking of examinations and other material, I know that

college staff, despite the fact that they are out on strike, I working in

many ways beyond some of the normal arrangements to put in place the

type of support and assistance that tries to minimise the effect of the

industrial action on student, and, this, the best way to minimise the

effect on student as for the strike to end so that the education process

can return to normal. On the question of baseline evidence, and I

have in front of me baseline evidence that is provided to me

which indicates, for example, that if the number of hours of court

class contact time was set at 24 hours, five colleges would see an

increase in the number of out of hours that are taught. If there was

set at 22 hours, 18 colleges would see a reduction in the number of

hours that are taught, so I have that information in front of me, but

that is disputed by their trade union within the dispute. So, what I

think, and what became very clear to me in my discussions at the weekend,

was that unless there is an evidence base line to put that material

together, that is accepted across-the-board, that cannot be a

source of dispute, there is no prospect of agreement. It is not the

Government's responsibility. This is a process of bargaining between two

sides, between the employers and the trade union, and it is a type of

work that I would expect it to be undertaken and agreed to facilitate

the process, so the fact that I have now had to intervene to make that

happen is a matter of regret. Finally, in relation to the

deadlines, John Sturrock comments his work, at my request, at short

notice yesterday, and their work is going on today to assemble the

baseline evidence, to enable a swift progress to be made as soon as

possible, and I can assure the smirk that all urgency will be applied to

that process. But I reiterate the point that I have made. The

Government has made an unwavering commitment to national bargaining,

so that be no doubt the national bargaining is here to stay. We have

put in place a system which is designed to break the impasse, and I

therefore think there is every justification and reason why the

industrial action should be suspended to enable these talks to

take their course. Thank you to the Cabinet Secretary for Ellis site.

This is the tenth anniversary of SNP Government here, and, my goodness,

those who work in colleges have suffered even more than most at

their hands. They have seen their colleges forced to merge, workplaces

displaced across cities are regions, budgets slashed, thousands of their

colleagues, 150,000 of their students disappear from the sector

altogether. Indeed, the only positive thing was national pay and

conditions. Equal pay and terms were doing the same job for ever the

work. That is a pretty basic fairness. But as the statement, they

are still waiting. It is a disgrace that they have had no option but to

strike, with all the impact that has had on students, just to get

Ministers attention. For months, we have called on ministers to

intervene, honour the promise, and see the deal honoured. While the

Cabinet Secretary simply apologise to college lecturers and their

students were taking so long to intervene and apologise to

Parliament for bringing as a process instead of a resolution to this

dispute. Iain Gray of as the paid no attention whatsoever to the point I

made in my statement about the achievements of the Father education

sector and quite a number of full-time students has increased by

over 33%, that the sector is involving more full-time courses for

women, that we have secured the third lowest use our deployment rate

in the European Union, and young people are going through courses. It

is just part of the ongoing, relentless narrative that Mr Gray

wants to peddle was can see nothing positive that is existing in

Scotland. So, Mr Gray can say all that he wants on these things, but

that the deal stands the test of time. I want to directly counter Mr

Gray's question and point about strike action being required to get

Minister 's attention. Ministers have been involved in discussion for

some time with both sides. The education minister has been

undertaking that work to encourage a process of national bargaining,

which is a process of dialogue between the employers and the trade

unions, and that is exactly what we have tried to do, and we encourage

the parties to resolve that. I would have thought, if this Gray was

remotely interested in the education of students and our country...

Remotely interested... Absolutely remotely interested, because he

never demonstrate any interest whatsoever in it, he would have

welcomed the fact that the Government was intervening to bring

this matter to her head in the fashion that we are doing. So I

simply say to Mr Gray, perhaps you should focus on the outcomes that

can be achieved within our colleges and not come here with a diatribe of

complaints which helps nobody. If they can make some progress through

the rest of the questions here. Deputy First Minister, my immediate

concern is sexier students and families, not employers are unions.

-- six year students. Can I have information on how this detrimental

impact can be mitigated by colleges, and what support can be given to

individual student constituents who is on a path into employment or

university are currently been jeopardised. Others that I encourage

the colleges to take every step to ensure that there is no disruption

to the education of students, and as I indicated in my statement and in

my earlier answer to lust but that there are measures being taken to

support young people and ensure they are able to secure the necessary

support that is required. An relation to some of this pacific

examination issues. 1541 students sat there higher examine colleges

last and colleges affected major those exams are able to happen as

planned, and they continue to insure students undertaking ST eight

qualifications at this time that they will be provided for, and that

no student will have their exams interrupted. In addition, the

employers Association has issued comprehensive cadence on the

practical steps colleges should take to medic scatter mitigate any

effects. Teaching at any level is a great privilege, but with the Deputy

First Minister not agree with me that the overriding professional

duty on all teachers is to act at all times in the best interests of

their students, and given this industrial action is manifestly

contrary to student's best interest, the union to call it off immediately

and apologise for the harm their action has already caused to

Scotland's college students. Perhaps slightly more bluntly than Liz Smith

did it, you have said what you have had to say on these matters. I take

the view that the best thing that Parliament can do is encourage both

sides to seek a resolution, and what I have done, and what the Minister

has done, is put in place a process of resolving this dispute on a basis

of evidence and dialogue, to ensure that the education of young people

is not interrupted in any way. What the proposals that I have put on the

table at their weekend are designed to do is to provide a means of

taking that cause that would see the industrial action suspended to

enable discussions to take place in an environment which I think could

be successful, and ensure that young people are able to secure the

education that they deserve. That is the approach that the Government

Baltic and advancing this issue. I welcome the First Minister's

statement. Can I ask him about support staff in colleges? And can

you advise what progress is being made to harmonising their terms and

conditions. I must refer members to my register of interests. There is

an ongoing process to ensure that the support staff unions are part of

the process to secure harmonisation. And meeting is scheduled to take

place this coming Thursday, and it will look at issues around job

evaluation, pay claims and work plans, and a minister recently met

with support staff unions as part of her engagement and this whole

process. I want to put on record my thanks to Unison and other support

staff for the patient and willingness to engage in a national

bargaining process, and we will continue our dialogue to ensure that

they are fully participating in this process. Thank you. Given that he

has asked the EIS to call off the planned strike action, can the

Cabinet Secretary tell me why he hasn't directly as the employers to

implement the first part of the pay deal which was agreed to be paid on

the 1st of April 2017. As an act of good food so that the ongoing strike

action can be suspended? I will remind the gallery that all public

members are welcome to join the proceedings, but not to applaud or

intervene in any way. Both parties agreed to jointly

develop it record up towards a harmonised workforce for the future

which includes reducing the subsequent points to salary and also

terms and conditions. The obligation is both parties to agree all about.

That is the process that both parties must take part in and must

resolve of national bargaining is to prevail. That is what the position

of the Government has been throughout this process. If we

require individual parties in this dispute to agree to certain terms

and conditions we break national bargaining. I think that would be an

undesirable move because she would set back the process of national

bargaining which has been an important reform that the Government

has been determined to put in place. I should declare I have a family

member on strike today due to this dispute. As has already been

mentioned, a number of students have got in touch with every member here.

Every e-mail I received was to request from a student for the

lecturer to get the page deserved, not undermining the lecturers in

this dispute. A fair pay deal was agreed last year. The Deputy First

Minister has outlined the importance of the strike ending. The EIS have

maybe offered the Mac thing is though that the strike action would

be suspended FTP deal was delivered. Surely they should be recommending

that the agreement be taken and then negotiate on terms and conditions. I

prefer Ross Greer back to what I said in my answer to Monica Lennon,

the agreement of March 2016 in which there is an obligation to develop a

road map for a harmonised future, jointly developed, that includes

issues on pages and dashed on pay and terms and conditions. Advancing

on all of these conditions, and resolving all of these questions

allowed people to get there be and to get back to work. All of these

issues have to be resolved. That is what I appealed to both parties to

do, to ensure that only secure the necessary agreement to enable the

pay increases to be delivered, the terms and conditions to be applied

and most importantly, the students in colleges to be able to have

access to the education resources. Can I thank the Deputy First

Minister for the statement and the advanced copy of it. John Swinney

would have to accept the bid has nothing positive about the strike

affecting students and lecturers across Scotland in the strike. It is

on his watch after ten years of his Government. He said he had no

responsibility for the baseline data, why is that the position given

that this started with his own statement, in March of last year, 14

months ago. I'm not an intervention earlier? For the very reason that

they have been indulging the process of national bargaining. That is what

national bargaining is about, it is about the employers and the trade

unions working collaboratively and together to resolve these issues and

put in place the necessary information that allows that to be

the case. We have encouraged or the regular bases progress on the

question of national bargaining and the resolution of these issues.

Fundamentally, national bargaining ceases to exist demand that the

Government begins specifying what are the terms of agreements to be

reached. What we are doing is facilitating the process of that

agreement and that is what I am setting out and encouraging both

parties to follow as part of statement today. The Deputy First

Minister has indicated that the agreement on pay was reached last

year with an average of the 9% increase. Can he provide some

further detail on what of that agreement actually means for

lecturing staff? As I indicated in my statement, it will be possible

under the pea agreement that all unpromoted lecturing staff will earn

up to ?40,026 per year at the top of the salary scale. It is useful to

note that the 9% increase in pay as the average, zero lecturing staff

member will lose paid as a result of harmonisation. Admittedly, some will

stay the same. For many, the increase in pay will be

substantially more than 9%. There will be an application of that to

individual circumstances as part of the process. Unlike a bass player,

the students who have contacted me are deeply concerned about what is

going to happen. I welcome the remark from the Cabinet Secretary

that he made about intervening in that. The students who contacted me

are concerned about assessments that should have already taken place. But

haven't taken place because of previous strike action that has

already occurred. What assurances can you give to my constituents and

people across Scotland that any assessment that is not taken place

will not then mean that a lower mark will occur in the final grade? There

is discussion is that Will Beatty had in colleges -- that will be had.

To ensure that we are there has been the issue of industrial action, that

is not detrimental to the educational opportunities and

possibilities of young people in colleges. If you are concerns we

will try to squeeze in three members. It is my understanding that

a harmonisation process through national bargaining needs to involve

both sides willingly moving towards each other but my possessions. By

its very nature, harmonisation also involves compromise from both sides.

Can the Deputy First Minister provide more detail on the

respectable positions at how these have shifted during negotiations to

reach a compromise? I indicated in my statement that there has been

movement and compromise by both sides and some progress has been

made. It is not progress that has allowed us to get to a resolution

which is why I have taken the action that I have to try to close the

remaining gaps and to resolve the dispute. I agree in principle with

Mr MacDonald's pointer that there is an important emphasis on the entire

question of dialogue to ensure this process of national bargaining can

be successful. What will John Sturrock be able to achieve that

ACCAS could not and how much will it cost the public purse? I am willing

to spend the money to resolve the issue rather than doing nothing. I

am always mindful of the importance of the public purse to ensure...

Anna Sarwar as accusing us of doing nothing for months and then when we

do something, Mr Johnson accuses us of spending public money. This is a

disgrace of interventions that they come up. We will get involved in the

process to resolve it, Mr Johnston. Any nice gestures of support from

the Labour Party would be helpful in the process but we not holding our

breath that. Can the Deputy First Minister advise how the proposed

terms and conditions and in particular the changes to annual

leave that are compare to other roles in the public sector? There

will be comparisons of the different arrangements that will Beatty from

sector to sector. What is important is that we focus on the evidence and

the sector to find the common base and unable to resolve these

questions to ensure the strike comes to a conclusion and the dispute is

resolved and we can implement national bargaining which is the

objective of the Government. I thank all members for participation.