Representation of Women in Parliament Committee Select Committees


Representation of Women in Parliament Committee

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Can I start by thanking you all for making the time to come and speak to

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the Select Committee this morning. The inquiry on women in the House of

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Commons is something we feel strongly about and we felt ht was

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appropriate to ask you to come together. As Parliamentary

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colleagues we know this is `n issue you feel strongly about yourself and

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that we can discuss this in a very sensible manner with four p`rties

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around the table. So thank xou again for your time and for your hnput. We

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can start the questions. A historical start here. It is nearly

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100 years since the first fdmale MP was elected but we just had 452

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women can appeared in that time Compared to 6005 men, there are more

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men in the House of Commons now than ever before. I will give yot a

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little hint about how many from each party. 260 and Labour, London 2

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SNP, 17 Lib Dem and aching from other parties. What has progress

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been since then? I think progress has been slow. I think therd is much

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more of a recognition now bdtween all of the parties as to thd

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necessity to get better representation across the whole

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spectrum of society. I think partly a lot has changed in the wax the

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House of Commons operates. Ht will be interesting to try and fhnd out

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whether it has had an impact on increasing female MPs as it might

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have been. I think both mysdlf and Germany have been in the Hotse for a

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very long time. If you go b`ck to the early days when we would be

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sitting till 10pm or two rare and quite often, that was something that

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put off a lot of woman from wanting to be in Parliament. That is

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possibly why some of the ch`nges have come about. I think thd way in

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which the Parliamentary year is now structured a bit better so that you

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can find other time to do constituency business and

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constituency activity as ch`nge The year is more balance. I think that

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maybe making some of the differences. Thank you for hnviting

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us and I hope you will also be taking evidence from women

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representing all of the polhtical parties, as it seems quite strange

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to have four white men giving evidence. That is your thought not

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ours. I see that that I'm vdry proud to be the leader of the Labour Party

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and to represent our views on it. We have 43% of Labour MPs are women, I

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wanted to be more and our aspiration is to have at least 50% of women MPs

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in Parliament. We have had the process over 30 or years of

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development of women's secthons on forums and the Labour Party and a

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big debate about all women short lists that was won and we now have a

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processor number of constittencies have all women short lists which

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results in a women being selected as the candidate. I think the hssue

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about women in Parliament is deeper than that goes back to the

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aspirations of girls and wolen and their interest in public and

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politics. It is an interesthng dichotomy. I attend local Youth

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Parliament elections in my constituency and it is

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overwhelmingly young women who want to be elected and overwhelmhngly

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young women who are passion`te about politics rather than young len stop

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somewhere along the line th`t gets reversed and in their late 20s or

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30s, most political parties are dominated by young men who dnd up in

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Parliament. There has to be an insurance that we get more women

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selected. Our party is keen on developing women's interests. We

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have just set up the Labour's woman network. They will help to promote

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and train young women who w`nt to be in politics in the memory of the

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late Jo Cox. We are promoting women in a positive way within thd party.

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Labour supported female suffrage in the first place. One of our early

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leaders in Parliament resigns.. Thank you for inviting us. There are

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other writing of reasons whx progress has been so slow. One of

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which over the years has bedn the failure of men to take on inequality

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for a woman and representathon of underrepresented groups. Men as well

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as women need to take a lead in fighting for equality. It is

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evidence throughout the citx and the move towards the 30% target of woman

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on city boards and that has been achieved in no small part bx Inc

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urging men to realise that was right as well as woman in fighting for

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that. I would also say when one looks at leadership and

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participation within politics and public life there is a dangdr that

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men tend to have a high confidence to ability ratio and women sometimes

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have the opposite. That is `n observation and you deal with that

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culturally. As Germany was referring to before. In terms of our failure

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as an institution and a bodx to reach the levels we are no sooner,

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we need to reach higher levdls and get towards 50-50 balance in

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Parliament. If you look at what works around the world therd are two

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things that massively affect the numbers in the country's Parliament

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- whether that are restrictdd short lists of appropriate -- short lists

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for proportional representation If we want to be serious in terms of

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the organisations and reallx tackling this problem we nedd to

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address both of those things. Thank you very much. Firstlx, I

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would make the point that the challenge we have had with the

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underrepresentation of women is not a challenge that is unique to the

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UK. I would make the observ`tion that the societal and cultural

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reasons that have excluded women and other minorities are felt rhght

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across the world, and if we look at other countries which took this more

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seriously than the UK did e`rlier, so one can look at our Scandinavian

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neighbours, they were able to make great strides earlier than we have

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done. I would just observe that I think all political parties realise

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that there is a problem. All political parties have been trying

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to find their way to help promote the involvement of women and

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minority groups within their parties, with a view to candidacy

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parliaments, when they have been parliaments, when they have been

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established, so I would mention the creation of the devolved

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institutions in the UK, which do involve proportional represdntation,

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which did discuss their working practices of the parliament and

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whether the working hours, `s an example, were conducive to family

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life, have led to a higher representation of women in the likes

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of the Scottish Parliament than has been the case in the UK Parliament.

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But just as a starter, I thhnk I would observe that we are ddaling

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with an international phenolenon on. I think we are some way to dealing

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with the shortcomings, but we still have a significant way to go.

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So, what was your party's approach in the last election to getting more

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women in? I can give you sole figures here. 1033 actually stood.

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22 for the SNP, Green Party 216 which is the highest, Labour 21 ,

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conservatives 169, and Lib Dems 164. None of them got in,

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unfortunately. So how do yot think it can be improved? You havd sort of

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touched on it, about what your party did to try and get more womdn in the

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last election. We will go into the other stuff later on.

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In a number of constituencids, we ensure there was a woman candidate

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selected. We have done a lot to promote and

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support women within the party and women's's forums, and indeed, we are

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taking that further with thd policy-making women's conference,

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which I think we'll have a big effect in promoting women whthin the

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party and giving them an opportunity to have a say. So those are two

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specific areas, and they mentioned the mentoring programme which we do

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through a local women's network OK. So, we had up until the last

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election, and indeed, renewdd since, and if we are going to move on to

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what we're doing in future, I will leave those comments when wd come

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onto that surely. We have something which beg`n in

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2010, the leadership progralme, which is about making sure that we

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funnelled additional support, funding, advice, mentoring, to all

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be representing groups, but especially women. The consepuence of

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that was, yes, 164 out of 633 seats in Britain, which is far too few. It

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is worth bearing in mind th`t of the retiring MP seats, they held seats

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up until the 2015 election, 55% of candidates for the Liberal Democrats

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the BLT is, when you get thd the BLT is, when you get thd

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hammering we got a year last May, pretty much any diversity mdchanism

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you put in place will be put under immense strain. -- I think the

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result for diversity, or indeed for result for diversity, or indeed for

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the party. I think what we have seen, we have

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seen a good increase since 2005 if you look at our figures before 005,

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they were absolutely appallhng. They are a bit better now, so we have had

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organisations such as the one led by Anne Jenkins, which is really pushed

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and try to support women candidates throughout England. There is more

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work that is being done on that now. The deputy chairman of the party has

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been very involved in also helping promote a winning -- Elwood helping

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to promote women. We're makhng sure they help get through short list and

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get selected. For us, the Scottish parlialentary

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elections, our female representation went from 27 to 43% in the course of

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one election, and that happdned for a very specific reason, bec`use

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there was intervention. What happened, wherever an incumbent SNP

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member of the Scottish Parlhament stood down or National Execttive

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Committee had the power to direct or woman short list in such a seat

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that resulted in, of the 17 new SNP MSPs, 13, three quarters of them,

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were women. So there is one conclusion from that - intervention

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works, and it did work. We have found our own way to do it, and

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we're having to pick of how we do that for local government elections

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next year, and we will no doubt come onto what that means for Westminster

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elections in terms of bound`ry review and things like that. It

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might take away from the biggest step change in female representation

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in the SNP is with a mechanhsm with the intention of dealing with an

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imbalance, it dealt very effectively imbalance, it dealt very effectively

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with an imbalance. We come onto the boundary rdviews,

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which we don't know whether they will go through what they look like.

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So it is slightly difficult to answer. But on current forecasting,

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and I realise it isn't. And, specifically, considering the Labour

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Party and the Conservative Party, the Labour Party stands to lose 17

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women and the Conservative Party stands to lose two. So I want to

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basically know what actions, I suppose this is more to the Labour

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Party than the Conservative Party, they aim to do to protect the number

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of women MPs in the boundarx proposal review. To Jeremy, first.

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Obviously, it is a hypothethcal question, because we don't know what

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the boundaries are going to be, or indeed, I would wish they wdren t

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going ahead at all, because too many going ahead at all, because too many

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are left uncounted. Let's imagine it is going through.

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OK. If it goes ahead as it hs, there will be a number of women who would

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be in a problem because of the delineation of new constitudncies.

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Our national and it has obvhously got to consider this, and mx wish

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would be to have all women short lists where we can, and to lake sure

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that we maintain at least the current percentage of women.

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What do you mean, where we can? It is a question of how far you can

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go in imposing things from ` national perspective, when there is

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a rule that automatically, `n MP with 40% of the population lake up

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of a new constituency must be short listed in the new constituency

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selection, and after that, what we know as a trigger ballots could take

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place in a constituency, whhch would decide whether to have an open

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contest or not. I will be asking our national lives it to look at this

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now -- our national executive, to make sure we achieve what wd are

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determined to do, which is `t least 50% of women representation in the

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next Parliament from the Labour Party, but we'll so have in place as

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an indicator a number of other programmes such as women's repeat --

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representation on all levels of the local level. It is nice as `bout

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selections. -- it is not just about selections.

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Specifically to the boundarx, the Labour Party is essentially going to

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go backwards. It is the next election, not forwards, but that is

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without even taking into account any particular losses in elections,

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which as Tim Farron has pointed out, is damning on diversity, because

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women are more likely to hold marginal seats in the Labour Party

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and across the board. So I suppose what we are seeking, with rdgard to

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the boundary review, from all colleagues, is what exactly are you

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going to do about the reduction and the Labour Party stands to hold the

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greatest reduction, so the Labour Party stands a chance of gohng the

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most backwards. I fully understand the dangdr of the

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situation. I have let you know that we are determined to achievd 50

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representation, and our nathonal lives could will be considering this

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burgeoning at my request. -, our national executive will be

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considering this burgeoning. So as we go into the post boundarx review

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period, it may well be that we will intervene to ensure that thdre are

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all women short lists, or in some cases, make sure that women are

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added to short lists to enstre that there is a choice.

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Patrick. Well, and Jeremy's point about the make-up of present

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boundaries, based on data in 20 0, so by the time we get to thd next

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general election, it will bd 20 years out of date.

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So I am rather surprised he is so opposed to the changes, which

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Parliament approved in the last Parliament, and should be

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intermittent. I think it is important that they are demdnted. I

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think there is far too much disparity amongst some

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constituencies at the present time. But if we move on from that...

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We're here to talk about thd women. Of course. I wanted to respond to

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what Jeremy said. He made hhs point, and I wanted to make mine as well. I

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think we have got to do everything we can to ensure that firstly, we

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don't see a decrease in the amount of women Conservative members

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parliament, but actually, I want to parliament, but actually, I want to

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see an increase. One of the things that has made, as far as I'l

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concerned, the Conservative Party better, is that we've actually got

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far more diverse representation across all sections of the

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community, and I don't want to see us go back on that. We will take the

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necessary actions we have got to take. Without straying to override

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local associations. The boundary commission of only just published

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their first stab at it. Obvhously, there are all the represent`tions

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feel for where we are going, feel for where we are going,

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probably this time next year, as far as the seats are concerned. But I

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the Prime Minister taking a very the Prime Minister taking a very

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direct interest in these matters, she won't want to see the shtuation

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deteriorate. So at the moment, you don't have

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any... You haven't identifidd any specific things you are going to do

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who may be reduced? Well, the party who may be reduced? Well, the party

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board has agreed in injuncthon with a 1922 committee about proportions

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of seeds and what happens whth proportions of seats, and h`d a

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brief section will go on. But there will be some new seats,

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and some that actually aren't selected as far as candidatds are

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concerned, and I'm pretty stre, as the last Parliament showed, you

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actually do get some retirelents. I think one of the impacts of fixed

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term Parliaments is that it does make people think a lot mord as to

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whether they want to do another seven or eight years when they are

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making the decision about whether to stand again.

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But at the moment, as it st`nds the Conservative Party don't have any

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particular strategy you could tell it about today with regard to women

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in the boundary review? The strategy overall for wolen is to

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get more women into winnabld seats. If you don't mind me interrtpting,

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that is a laudable strategy, like I have many laudable strategids in my

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life that never come to fruhtion. One has to know the detail of such

:19:36.:19:38.

us to allergy, rather than just its overarching mission. -- the detail

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of such a strategy. By think it is more than a laudable

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strategy, if I may say so. Ht was nearly a laudable strategy, we would

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not seem to mind is progress. In 2005, 17, at the last gener`l

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election, 68. We must move forward, so I put that as my defence for my

:19:59.:20:03.

laudable strategy, which has been put into operation.

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Jeremy, I will move onto thd Labour Jeremy, I will move onto thd Labour

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Party, so I wonder if I could ask because time is limited, sole closed

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questions that might help us to get some short answers as well. Would

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you agree that all women short list of the most effective mechanism we

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have found for the selection of reselection of women?

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Absolutely, and I have supported all women short lists from all the time

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I have been in the Labour P`rty I think it has made an incredhble

:20:37.:20:42.

that the men in the party h`ve to that the men in the party h`ve to

:20:43.:20:45.

play in ending the play in ending the

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underrepresentation of women, and we initially did it on a regional

:20:50.:20:53.

basis, so we would put all women short lists into most, if not all,

:20:54.:20:57.

selections in a particular region until that region had reachdd the

:20:58.:21:01.

50% that we wanted, and aftdr that, there would be a more open contest

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where both men and women cotld contest a selection process. I think

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it has been a wholly good thing I have to say, it was extremely

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controversial when first promoted in the party and nearly 1970s. It was

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seen as... I was accused of being a far left extremist for promoting

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ideas like that. Can you im`gine such a thing!

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Let me ask you a few things related to the all women short list, then.

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You said in your first answdr that you believe there is a drop,off for

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women's representation coming through in perhaps their 20s and

:21:38.:21:41.

30s. What do you think is c`using a drop-off?

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It is hard to know exactly. Young woman of school and college name are

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often passionately interestdd in politics and representing their

:21:56.:22:00.

classmates and college mates in school and college elections. The

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Tehran there seems to be an overtaking of Machell culture and

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that reduces their representation. I think it is a question of extending

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the idea of balance representation and office holding. In our

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constituency parties we reqtire a balance between men and womdn and I

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think that is an important lessage from the very beginning. In the last

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18 selections for mayor, do you know how many were women? There hs a

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problem with this election of Mayors in that in the selections wd just

:22:44.:22:49.

went through for Liverpool, greater Manchester and Birmingham, three men

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have been selected. In the case of Manchester there were no wolen put

:22:56.:23:00.

forward. In the case of Livdrpool and Merseyside there was ond proof

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for it. I have asked that the national accept YouTube revhews this

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to ensure that we do give consideration to all woman short

:23:10.:23:13.

listed for mayor as we do for parliamentary elections. Yot are

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right to identify it. The 18 Labour mayor since 2002, only two of those

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have been men. Is there any philosophical reason why an all

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female short list should not be applied at the level of Mayor?

:23:32.:23:37.

Absolutely not. This was before I became leader. I have asked the

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national executive to look `t this because it is not acceptabld to have

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the vast majority of Fat candidates for mayor being men when we want to

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achieve the same as we want to achieve in parliamentary

:23:59.:24:01.

representation. I want to ASCII some questions about the party wd both

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belong to. There were 23 potential selections when men and womdn could

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go head-to-head in a new botndary seat. Based on what you know, how

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many do you think will be women I would hope that around half because

:24:21.:24:27.

I would hope to get 50%. I `m concerned about this as indhcated in

:24:28.:24:31.

my reply and that is why I've asked the NEC to look carefully at this. I

:24:32.:24:37.

cannot give a definitive answer as to what the rule will be because it

:24:38.:24:42.

has not yet been formulated. I am very determined to achieve 40%

:24:43.:24:49.

representation. Your view on this is very important and your leadership

:24:50.:24:54.

on this is important. That hs why there is a process going through the

:24:55.:24:58.

NEC and I understand that is important. In the Labour Party we

:24:59.:25:08.

have a process where a checker ballot could cause a fool

:25:09.:25:12.

reselection process in a particular seat. If any Labour MP goes through

:25:13.:25:18.

a checker ballot process and they are a woman, do you think it would

:25:19.:25:26.

be appropriate to put in pl`ce an all-female short list there? That

:25:27.:25:32.

could be done. If you looks like we're going to end up with two few

:25:33.:25:38.

women being selected and eldcted I would want to look at that. There

:25:39.:25:46.

was a young woman removed from the NEC by members. She tried to get a

:25:47.:25:51.

sexual harassment policy through the NEC to improve the structurd and

:25:52.:25:55.

culture. And now you are a lember of the NEC and have been for the last

:25:56.:26:00.

year. Why do you think that it not go through. I have now put something

:26:01.:26:06.

through the national executhve which was a statement that came ott of the

:26:07.:26:11.

concerns about racism and wd put forward a policy which prohhbits

:26:12.:26:19.

intimidatory behaviour against individuals or communities `nd

:26:20.:26:27.

anyone caving in a way that is sexist, racist or discrimin`tory and

:26:28.:26:31.

anyway could face action within the party, including expulsion from the

:26:32.:26:39.

party. I am serious about this. I've put this forward personally to the

:26:40.:26:44.

NEC and it has been adopted. That was after I became the leaddr. Do

:26:45.:26:49.

you think that a sufficient on the issue of sexual harassment? We have

:26:50.:26:54.

codes of conduct that apply throughout the whole party that

:26:55.:26:58.

concern behaviour at branch level, constituency level and at any other

:26:59.:27:04.

level within the party about behaviour and attitudes tow`rds

:27:05.:27:08.

people. Members who behave inappropriately can be suspdnded

:27:09.:27:11.

from membership and could bd expelled. There has to be a process

:27:12.:27:15.

to examine each case becausd obviously there are two sidds to an

:27:16.:27:21.

argument but I am determined to resolve these quickly and not to let

:27:22.:27:25.

them drag on. I am very serhous about this. What I read in the

:27:26.:27:34.

newspaper and hear from colleagues is that there is a level of

:27:35.:27:39.

intimidation and trolling which would put the hardest person of

:27:40.:27:43.

going into politics than thd Labour Party. What are you doing about

:27:44.:27:51.

that. It is not coming from within the party, that is abuse on social

:27:52.:27:56.

media that is beyond disgusting If you look through it and see what is

:27:57.:28:00.

there you will see some horrible stuff. If there are people

:28:01.:28:07.

identified as from within otr own party, behaving inappropriately and

:28:08.:28:11.

putting things on Facebook or Twitter, they can be suspended from

:28:12.:28:19.

party membership and investhgated. In the Conservative Party wd have a

:28:20.:28:23.

policy of no one left behind. Do you have that same policy? Are xou going

:28:24.:28:38.

down that route to say that when people retire they will be replaced?

:28:39.:28:48.

Our processes one that the local party makes the decision and has the

:28:49.:28:54.

selection process. They do not have the power to impose candidates or

:28:55.:28:59.

tell people who to select. We do have the power to ensure a process

:29:00.:29:04.

takes place and there is a fierce election and we achieve what we are

:29:05.:29:08.

determined to do which is 50% of female representation. You `re going

:29:09.:29:12.

to make an effort to stop the intimidation? I already am `nd

:29:13.:29:23.

haven't for continued to do so. It is not used to tell local

:29:24.:29:28.

memberships what to do, that disagrees with your view about

:29:29.:29:33.

all-female short list. We both know that no local branch of was to have

:29:34.:29:38.

an all-female short list but we put that on to them. At what level do

:29:39.:29:43.

you think you do now have a role in what local membership does? The

:29:44.:29:49.

national executive of the p`rty can and does require an all-fem`le short

:29:50.:29:55.

list. We have done that for more than 20 years and it has had a huge

:29:56.:30:00.

effect on increasing the nulber of female MPs and we will conthnue with

:30:01.:30:06.

that process. I cannot tell a constituency who to choose

:30:07.:30:10.

preconception parameters. If we have an all women short lists, then

:30:11.:30:18.

obviously they will choose woman. During the leadership campahgn you

:30:19.:30:25.

mentioned a 50-50 represent`tion policy. What are you going to change

:30:26.:30:30.

to bring that back? An examhnation of where we are at the moment on

:30:31.:30:36.

selections for me know what the boundaries will be. What do when

:30:37.:30:42.

ability of those seats are. This goes back a very long way, dven to

:30:43.:30:49.

the 1920s, that women tend to represent more marginal than safe

:30:50.:30:52.

constituencies. This also applies in other parties. I want to look very

:30:53.:30:58.

carefully at all-female short list so it is not just on the totality of

:30:59.:31:03.

constituencies but in ones that are more likely to be one to ensure that

:31:04.:31:09.

we do achieve 50%. So when the bell curve of seats from when a ball to

:31:10.:31:13.

less winnable, you think thhs should be a more woman selected in safe

:31:14.:31:18.

seats? I would like that to be the case. But I do not like seehng safe

:31:19.:31:28.

or unsafe. There is no safe seat. I want to make sure that they get 50%.

:31:29.:31:37.

To go back, you mentioned a drop-off and I posited that there might be

:31:38.:31:42.

something about the culture in the Labour Party, particularly for young

:31:43.:31:47.

woman involved in represent`tion in levels outside Parliament. @s you

:31:48.:31:51.

come across any examples whdre you think there is a particular problem

:31:52.:31:57.

for women? I think sometimes there are behavioural issues that young

:31:58.:32:03.

women are not treated with the respect they deserve and Labour

:32:04.:32:08.

groups and councils and think this probably applies across the board

:32:09.:32:14.

and other parties as well. Ht is a process of respect and educ`tion

:32:15.:32:19.

that is very important. This is why I'm interested in the attittdes of

:32:20.:32:24.

young women towards politics and activity in public life. I have been

:32:25.:32:29.

looking at the way in which Youth Parliament and youth councils

:32:30.:32:32.

operate as a way of ensuring that young woman do continue to be

:32:33.:32:37.

involved and interested in representational politics. They

:32:38.:32:44.

think weather situations with young woman coming forward with c`ses of

:32:45.:32:47.

misogyny and bullying within the Labour Party that we handle does

:32:48.:32:56.

well? I am trying to ensure that they are all examined quickly and

:32:57.:33:01.

sensitively and the names of all parties are withheld until there has

:33:02.:33:05.

been released an initial investigation of it. That w`s on the

:33:06.:33:09.

recommendations to our national executive. I will keep it under

:33:10.:33:16.

review because we have set hn train the process that I have described

:33:17.:33:21.

here, we certain plays the codes of conduct you have described, although

:33:22.:33:25.

they are open to review bec`use you have to check how these things are

:33:26.:33:30.

getting on. It is also a qudstion of the educational culture with an all

:33:31.:33:35.

parties about how people behave towards each other. Parliamdnt sets

:33:36.:33:40.

an appalling example. The attitude of MPs towards each other in the

:33:41.:33:49.

Chamber and in committees, H think we have an example to set as well

:33:50.:33:54.

and we do not. What would bd your message to young woman in the Labour

:33:55.:33:59.

Party who feel they are expdriencing at an addition or abuse bec`use of

:34:00.:34:07.

their gender or age. If thex feel that they are make sure that the

:34:08.:34:10.

officers and the local partx branch know about it and it is invdstigated

:34:11.:34:16.

in a proper way. If they ard not with the uncertain ticket to the

:34:17.:34:20.

stage. Before you finish I know that others want to comment... Journey,

:34:21.:34:31.

you believe in equality, of course. So why is there not all-black short

:34:32.:34:35.

lists or disabled short lists or LGBT short list? There have been

:34:36.:34:41.

suggestions about that. There have been idea is that that should be put

:34:42.:34:47.

forward. I have some sympathy with that. I'll so have sympathy with

:34:48.:34:53.

ensuring that there is a pl`ce on selection processes for people

:34:54.:34:58.

representing LGBT, black or disabled communities. I think there should be

:34:59.:35:03.

processed ensure that happens because Parliament has to bd

:35:04.:35:06.

representative of our society and it is up to all of us to recognise we

:35:07.:35:12.

are in a party political system and that our parties operate in a way

:35:13.:35:17.

that all those groups end up with representation. It is sad that it

:35:18.:35:22.

was not until 1987 that there were four black MPs elected to

:35:23.:35:26.

Parliament, the first one shnce the 1920s and one lost his seat. How

:35:27.:35:31.

will you deliver that withott breaching the equality act? I think

:35:32.:35:37.

you can deliver it by requiring them to be included in the short listing

:35:38.:35:46.

process. Jeremy, you mentioned earlier that this Parliament has a

:35:47.:35:49.

responsibility and I think xou use the word leadership and I agree with

:35:50.:35:55.

you that it is crucial to this. You seem quite philosophical nature

:35:56.:35:58.

about the future and young people and aspirations young woman. I'm

:35:59.:36:03.

interested to know what asstrances will you give to your members right

:36:04.:36:09.

now that your party will do more to end intimidation and bullying that

:36:10.:36:10.

is taking place in your party? You assume the party is rifd with

:36:11.:36:24.

intimidation. It is not. Thdre are some intimidation, and we are in the

:36:25.:36:27.

process of dealing with it. We have codes of conduct and rules, and we

:36:28.:36:30.

are in the process of dealing with it. We are a large party, whth over

:36:31.:36:34.

very fast, and I want to make sure very fast, and I want to make sure

:36:35.:36:38.

that all those new members understand the rules and thd code of

:36:39.:36:40.

behaviour expected from thel within behaviour expected from thel within

:36:41.:36:43.

the party. Just one last question, which is

:36:44.:36:49.

this. Why do you think that a woman doing the job that I do as ` member

:36:50.:36:54.

of Parliament is far more lhkely to receive abuse while doing it than

:36:55.:36:57.

me? The society in which we livd is

:36:58.:37:03.

unfortunately still quite sdxist, in many cases, quite misogynist. Read

:37:04.:37:09.

the style of writing of an `wful lot of popular newspapers that H'm sure

:37:10.:37:13.

see where a lot of the stuff comes see where a lot of the stuff comes

:37:14.:37:24.

from, and the acceptance of... Too ready acceptance of racism, sexism

:37:25.:37:27.

in our society, which is solething in our society, which is solething

:37:28.:37:30.

we must challenge. We are to represent everyone in public life,

:37:31.:37:32.

and we must challenge it. Before we move onto the next set of

:37:33.:37:38.

questions, I know you to le`ve a little early, Jeremy. I will ask you

:37:39.:37:42.

the final question we will `sk to all parties. What commitment will

:37:43.:37:45.

your party make today to thhs committee to make sure that the

:37:46.:37:48.

number of women in your party increases in the 2020 Parli`ment?

:37:49.:37:53.

It is our policy to achieve at least 50-50 representation. We have got a

:37:54.:37:58.

long way towards it with 43$ representation, but it is also

:37:59.:38:01.

important to the cultural development within our partx, and I

:38:02.:38:05.

hope within other parties, that we achieve that representation and

:38:06.:38:08.

that is clearly a route into that is clearly a route into

:38:09.:38:09.

So how many more women will you have So how many more women will you have

:38:10.:38:13.

to get elected at the next dlection to achieve your objective?

:38:14.:38:18.

Well, we have 43% at the molent it clearly depends on how many seats we

:38:19.:38:22.

win at the next election. That say we won... I would put a figtre, but

:38:23.:38:26.

more than 50%. You very much.

:38:27.:38:32.

-- thank you very much. I'm going to question you on the record of the

:38:33.:38:35.

Conservative Party. The former Prime Minister w`s very

:38:36.:38:38.

keen, or did talk about all women keen, or did talk about all

:38:39.:38:40.

short lists, and the Conservative short lists, and the Conservative

:38:41.:38:43.

Party is one of the few parties that doesn't use all women short lists to

:38:44.:38:47.

select its parliamentary candidate, but that hasn't happened. So what

:38:48.:38:52.

are your thoughts on all wolen short list, and do you think it is

:38:53.:38:54.

something the Conservative Party will use in the future?

:38:55.:38:58.

There is nothing to stop all women short lists going for assochations,

:38:59.:39:04.

and I think there have been a few occasions, although I don't have the

:39:05.:39:11.

exact historical record, and was not responsible for those of thd last

:39:12.:39:13.

general election, but I think there was some areas where there were all

:39:14.:39:17.

women short lists, that just naturally happened. We don't impose

:39:18.:39:20.

all women short lists, becatse we do try to get local associations to

:39:21.:39:25.

have as much freedom as possible in the way they go about selecting

:39:26.:39:29.

general election. Different rules general election. Different rules

:39:30.:39:32.

apply in a by-election, but in some cases, I think, there are all women

:39:33.:39:38.

short lists. I was selected from an all women

:39:39.:39:41.

short list that happened naturally, but if you were pushed, and the

:39:42.:39:45.

Prime Minister came to UN s`id, how will we get more conservative women

:39:46.:39:49.

MPs in Parliament, would yot to her, all women short lists are the way to

:39:50.:39:54.

go? I think imposing that on

:39:55.:40:01.

Conservative associations would possibly risk a resentment which

:40:02.:40:05.

would not help that member of Parliament once they were sdlected,

:40:06.:40:08.

or that candidate, once thex were selected. I would rather usd other

:40:09.:40:14.

measures, working with associations, working with women who are on the

:40:15.:40:17.

candidates list or are trying to get on the candidates list. We have

:40:18.:40:22.

various organisations where we do that, so, for example Women To Win,

:40:23.:40:30.

and our deputy chairman of the party has special responsibility for the

:40:31.:40:34.

women candidates -- for all the candidates, and looking aftdr the

:40:35.:40:36.

women candidates as well. Shgh her weird and all those things hn the

:40:37.:40:42.

right way, but I am willing to be persuaded. -- so I hope we have done

:40:43.:40:45.

all those things in the right way. So from what you are saying, using

:40:46.:40:52.

mentoring such as the Women To Win programme and these role models is

:40:53.:40:58.

as effective as all women short lists, or...

:40:59.:41:03.

? Well, we need to see how we are moving along.

:41:04.:41:08.

I think we have come a long way in the Conservative Party in a

:41:09.:41:14.

relatively short time, and last ten years, and with the work thd David

:41:15.:41:17.

Cameron and a razor made it, when Leader of the Opposition, to try and

:41:18.:41:23.

redress the balance a bit. ,- to reason me. I also think that sends a

:41:24.:41:28.

break of message out to constituents' associations H was

:41:29.:41:33.

reflecting on it, that in all the general elections I have fotght in

:41:34.:41:36.

my time standing for Parlialent I have never, ever had a woman

:41:37.:41:40.

candidate against me from any of the party, which is quite staggdring,

:41:41.:41:42.

really. And in terms of the discusshon this

:41:43.:41:48.

morning, much has been on the parliamentary party and tridd to get

:41:49.:41:51.

more female parliamentary c`ndidates in place and elected. But if you are

:41:52.:41:56.

that the Conservative Party as a whole, it is very male dominated. If

:41:57.:42:00.

you look at the professional party, only two out of the ten dirdctors of

:42:01.:42:04.

the party are women. If you look at the voluntary party in my area, the

:42:05.:42:08.

south-east, only eight of the nine area chairman... Eight of the nine

:42:09.:42:18.

area chairman Harold Mann, `nd even in the 1922 committee there is a new

:42:19.:42:22.

one woman out of 12 in that. Does the Conservative Party have a

:42:23.:42:25.

problem with women outside of the parliamentary selection process

:42:26.:42:31.

I think we have awarded points for numbers, and I hope we get ` bonus

:42:32.:42:35.

that the Prime Minister! As to sort of the make-up of parties, but you

:42:36.:42:40.

are right. It is sometimes that people don't want to put thdmselves

:42:41.:42:43.

forward for various bodies, and you can't force them to do that. I take

:42:44.:42:48.

the point on the elections. I don't think I get vote on that, btt you

:42:49.:42:53.

do. In terms of when candidates are

:42:54.:42:57.

selected being selected, I know you thought about boundary changes and

:42:58.:42:59.

one of the areas you have bden working at helping create the number

:43:00.:43:05.

of women MPs and help those potential female MPs that mhght lose

:43:06.:43:11.

their seats in retirement, but historically, the Conservathve Party

:43:12.:43:14.

have been very poor in selecting female candidates for either

:43:15.:43:20.

retirement seats or target seats. Only 28% in the last election of

:43:21.:43:24.

female candidates were in t`rget seats compared to, say, 54% in

:43:25.:43:30.

Labour. So why is it so difficult for female candidates in thd

:43:31.:43:32.

Conservative Party to be selected for either retirement seats or

:43:33.:43:36.

target seats, when they are much more likely to be selected for

:43:37.:43:42.

nonmember seats? Well, as I say, I think there has

:43:43.:43:47.

been progress. There is mord work there needs to be done, but I think

:43:48.:43:51.

actually, we have started to address that and will continue to address

:43:52.:43:56.

that. We have given extra hdlp to women candidates through

:43:57.:44:00.

organisations like Women To Win and other organisations, helping women

:44:01.:44:05.

to get forward in the selections. In the written selection to this

:44:06.:44:09.

committee, you said that a third of Conservative candidates seldcted for

:44:10.:44:14.

2015's general election with e-mail, but the House of Commons library

:44:15.:44:17.

says it is less than that, `round 26%. What is the true figurd?

:44:18.:44:21.

Well, I think the figure I have given this true, but I have not

:44:22.:44:25.

caught up with a discrepancx between the House of Commons librarx, and as

:44:26.:44:31.

we all know, we argue with them members of Parliament seem to take

:44:32.:44:34.

the House of Commons librarx as a certain bylaw which is not to be

:44:35.:44:39.

questioned, but I will check that out. I thought the figure I was

:44:40.:44:43.

given was correct. So are there any specific things you

:44:44.:44:47.

have kind of ruled out? You have ruled out all women short lhsts so

:44:48.:44:50.

together is women into retirement seats in target seats, apart from

:44:51.:44:55.

men touring and, we have highlighted the lack of role models in the

:44:56.:44:59.

Conservative Party -- mentoring is the Reading specific you can do to

:45:00.:45:03.

try and increase the number of female candidates in those seats

:45:04.:45:06.

that are more likely to win? I think the number of things are

:45:07.:45:10.

going on. First and foremost, we would get a better idea what we

:45:11.:45:15.

expect those seats to be, and those people that are affected or not

:45:16.:45:18.

affected by changes in how we work with those. But the work th`t we are

:45:19.:45:26.

doing, there is more to be done I go back to the point that in 20 5,

:45:27.:45:32.

we were 17 women on the Conservative benches. Today, we are 68. So is the

:45:33.:45:36.

party aware of the problem? Is the party tried to address the

:45:37.:45:38.

Yes. Has it been as successful as we Yes. Has it been as successful as we

:45:39.:45:43.

would like? I think we have made good progress in a number of

:45:44.:45:47.

directions, but there is a lot more work to be done, and that is being

:45:48.:45:50.

done through the candidates' department, not just through Women

:45:51.:45:55.

To Win, though that has been very important, and they have bedn very

:45:56.:45:58.

successful in helping us to do that. We had a special video made at the

:45:59.:46:02.

conference about getting wolen selected into winnable seats, which

:46:03.:46:05.

was shown at the conference. So I hope we're made progress along those

:46:06.:46:09.

lines. And just reflecting the boundary

:46:10.:46:15.

changes, the potential impact on female Conservative MPs is not as

:46:16.:46:20.

drastic as it could be, potdntially, on female Labour MPs, but what is

:46:21.:46:27.

the party going to do to ensure that women MPs who may be affectdd are

:46:28.:46:35.

supported through that, and are there specific measures in place to

:46:36.:46:38.

help female MPs deal with boundary changes?

:46:39.:46:41.

There will be. When we're clear on what the changes are, I think all

:46:42.:46:48.

this has to be done... One of the problems in which the legislation

:46:49.:46:52.

was changed, so we can't actually take a decision on these until late

:46:53.:47:00.

2018, does actually leave a shorter period of time for the fixed term

:47:01.:47:03.

Parliament to be able to st`rt looking at this, but I think when we

:47:04.:47:10.

first review that is done, we will first review that is done, we will

:47:11.:47:16.

start to think about those `s the seats to go forward.

:47:17.:47:19.

And the final question, I rdally just want to build on what Jess

:47:20.:47:24.

asked all of you previously, but particularly for the Conservative

:47:25.:47:27.

Party. If the polls are to be believed, the Conservative Party are

:47:28.:47:31.

likely to win the next general election, so the pressure is even

:47:32.:47:34.

harder on you to make sure that if we are going to increase felale MPs

:47:35.:47:37.

across the board, that the Conservative Party have really got

:47:38.:47:40.

to step up, because they ard more likely to produce more of the MPs

:47:41.:47:47.

after 2020. So what is the Conservative Party doing, and you as

:47:48.:47:52.

the chairman doing, to ensure that those MPs that are elected hn 2 20

:47:53.:47:57.

and more likely to be women? Well, the usual cautionary tale is,

:47:58.:48:02.

on polls, inevitably them. There is on the one that matters, and by the

:48:03.:48:05.

time you know the results of that, it is too late. But I think the work

:48:06.:48:13.

that is being done now in drawing up candidates' lists, in preparing

:48:14.:48:17.

women candidates and helping them, giving them extra training courses,

:48:18.:48:20.

all of that is important. I have just appointed a chairman for

:48:21.:48:28.

training, one of our MPs in the West Midlands. She will have a s`y in how

:48:29.:48:37.

we do the training, right across the board for the party, not just on

:48:38.:48:40.

candidate selection. There has been quite a bit of work done on that,

:48:41.:48:43.

Women To Win, and I don't w`nt to Women To Win, and I don't w`nt to

:48:44.:48:46.

undermine what is really bedn a successful organisation. -- what has

:48:47.:48:54.

been a successful organisathon. As the party and government in the

:48:55.:48:58.

UK, and this question is specifically for Patrick...

:48:59.:49:03.

Sorry, I missed what you just said. As the party and government in the

:49:04.:49:06.

UK and the party that hosts the second female Prime Minister, will

:49:07.:49:12.

your party live up to its commitment and its aspirations for a gdnder

:49:13.:49:16.

balanced cabinet and a 50-50 Parliament by 2020?

:49:17.:49:23.

I hope we see an improvement in our overall representation as f`r as

:49:24.:49:25.

women are concerned, yes. Actual figures, I can't give you those

:49:26.:49:31.

actual figures, but I think the Prime Minister has made a vdry

:49:32.:49:34.

important start in the way hn which she formed her first governlent

:49:35.:49:39.

Eight of the Cabinet are felale so I think... And her commitment has

:49:40.:49:47.

gone back for quite some tile. It is not something she has newly come

:49:48.:49:50.

onto. She has actually fought against where she has seen

:49:51.:49:54.

discrimination in the past, and has actually come through it as well.

:49:55.:50:00.

Can I take you back to, I think one of your first answer is, whhch was,

:50:01.:50:06.

what evidence do you have that women who are selected through an all

:50:07.:50:09.

women short list enjoy less legitimacy in parliament? No, what I

:50:10.:50:17.

said was, if you impose it. I think it can get resentment. I'm not

:50:18.:50:25.

saying that, and I don't be that. I was misquoted if I was. But I think

:50:26.:50:30.

the point was made that she was part of an all woman short list, and that

:50:31.:50:33.

is where I was drawing "Is from So your belief is that, while an all

:50:34.:50:40.

women short list is an imposed, that could prevent a woman from dnjoying

:50:41.:50:44.

the full legitimacy? Know, once a member of Parlhament is

:50:45.:50:50.

elected to the Hausa commons, I think we know that one of the things

:50:51.:50:53.

that does not matter when you are actually in the House of Colmons, is

:50:54.:50:57.

actually what sort of majorhty you have got or anything like that. A

:50:58.:51:02.

number of Parliament is tre`ted the same as any other, so that should

:51:03.:51:04.

be. Do you think that there are women in

:51:05.:51:08.

Parliament who feel that thdy have less legitimacy because thex were

:51:09.:51:12.

selected on an all woman short list? No, because once they have got the

:51:13.:51:21.

mandate of their constituency, their rights as members of Parlialent as

:51:22.:51:24.

far as I'm concerned, are the same as any other. Thank you.

:51:25.:51:33.

More women are in marginal seats. What will you do to make sure they

:51:34.:51:40.

are supported in the next election so we can keep up that numbdr? Quite

:51:41.:51:48.

a bit, but I'm not perhaps willing to talk about it in front of the

:51:49.:51:54.

Committee. The evidence points to the fact that in other countries

:51:55.:51:59.

where they have a good numbdr of female representatives that has been

:52:00.:52:02.

achieved by quarters such as all-female short lists and support

:52:03.:52:10.

mechanisms. Some of these c`n be aired by breaking down barrhers Why

:52:11.:52:20.

have you rejected the evidence of good positive discrimination,

:52:21.:52:24.

because we can see in this room that some of us are here because we were

:52:25.:52:28.

wrong all-female short lists and that is why we have representation.

:52:29.:52:32.

I am worried that you are s`ying you do not want to do that. We have made

:52:33.:52:40.

progress. I want to see us lake more progress. I think the progrdss we

:52:41.:52:44.

have made in the last ten ydars has been to measures that have been

:52:45.:52:49.

taken and are acceptable within the Conservative Party. If we wdre not

:52:50.:52:52.

making progress through but have to look at the other means avahlable to

:52:53.:52:55.

us but we have been making progress and want to see that continte. I

:52:56.:53:03.

have to ask the question, the Conservative Party have onlx ever

:53:04.:53:08.

managed to get 123 woman eldcted and we have got thousands of wolen who

:53:09.:53:12.

are members. I hear warm words from you but how are you going to

:53:13.:53:17.

convince this Committee that those warm words world lead to more women

:53:18.:53:22.

and the next election rather than simply a status quo? Judge ts by our

:53:23.:53:28.

actions and what has happendd in recent years. The thing I would say

:53:29.:53:36.

is that we have made lots of progress and we will continte to do

:53:37.:53:43.

that. We have done that by `ctually taking the party with us and not

:53:44.:53:47.

having an issue as far as the parties concerned. There was some

:53:48.:53:53.

resentment and David Cameron tried an alternate list, although that was

:53:54.:53:58.

a balanced a list, but therd was a lot of criticism about that and a

:53:59.:54:04.

lot of woman felt left out, so we are learning from that and working

:54:05.:54:09.

with associations when it bdcomes clear that has a vacancy, when it

:54:10.:54:14.

becomes clear that there is an opportunity, we work with those

:54:15.:54:16.

associations and do a lot more work in the run-up to their selection of

:54:17.:54:21.

their candidates than we have in the past. We have done things lhke open

:54:22.:54:27.

primaries, which I don't thhnk other parties have done, which have been

:54:28.:54:32.

very successful in certain cases. When you're coming to situation of

:54:33.:54:36.

bringing down the size of the House of Commons to 600 then therd are

:54:37.:54:41.

other problems which come into being during that reduction. My

:54:42.:54:52.

objection is to Angus Robertson the leader of the SNP Westminstdr grip.

:54:53.:55:01.

Over the last ten years the party has been a substantial journey and

:55:02.:55:07.

you as the former party chahrman work quite instrumental to some of

:55:08.:55:13.

the more successful elections that we have ever witnessed. What

:55:14.:55:18.

improvements to Jamaica durhng your time this campaign coordinator in

:55:19.:55:21.

business convener of than the party to ensure gender balance and

:55:22.:55:28.

representation of women? Thd first observation is made for the benefit

:55:29.:55:33.

of colleagues who might not understand the timing of our role.

:55:34.:55:36.

It is a structure because I was effectively the person who was

:55:37.:55:40.

chairing the party, chairing the national executive and the

:55:41.:55:44.

conference, at the same timd as having been our campaigns dhrector,

:55:45.:55:48.

how did we win elections and run the party? It would be fair to say that

:55:49.:55:57.

at that time I had inherited a culture of dealing with the issue of

:55:58.:56:02.

women and minority representation from the perspective of we really

:56:03.:56:06.

want this to be better, and we have had some of that today, and we are

:56:07.:56:10.

really going to try and hopd that things get better so we will exhort

:56:11.:56:16.

and encourage, rather than have mechanisms in place. I think by the

:56:17.:56:22.

end of my period in both of those rules, I realised that was not going

:56:23.:56:29.

to be enough. We could exhort as much as we liked and encour`ges much

:56:30.:56:34.

as we liked, we could speak to people who were thinking about

:56:35.:56:36.

becoming candidates and telling them they would be good candidatds, but

:56:37.:56:39.

they would be no mechanisms in place to help that happen. That mhght be

:56:40.:56:43.

the position of some other parties that are giving evidence today. We

:56:44.:56:47.

decided we would look at thhs and change it. That involved a certain

:56:48.:56:59.

retinas between members who did not want the party imposing as well and

:57:00.:57:02.

local democracy, but we havd gone on a journey that has seen a shmple men

:57:03.:57:06.

mechanisms that have led to the significant change. The SNP is a

:57:07.:57:12.

very democratic political p`rties so is not of them happen because one

:57:13.:57:17.

person wanted, there were pdople throughout the party,

:57:18.:57:20.

parliamentarians and members, who is thought that change we are still in

:57:21.:57:25.

a process because what we h`ve now introduced, all women short lists in

:57:26.:57:29.

some circumstances for the Scottish Parliament, is something th`t we are

:57:30.:57:33.

now doing from local Governlent elections in Scotland. It is

:57:34.:57:38.

difficult for us to know wh`t will happen next to increase our

:57:39.:57:44.

representation because we won nearly every seat in the Parliament. We

:57:45.:57:53.

will deal with that women nded to. I'm being encouraged to advhse

:57:54.:57:56.

someone else on the panel. H digress. To bring you back to the

:57:57.:58:04.

point, we have the first felale Prime Minister, First Minister I

:58:05.:58:12.

mean, Nicola Sturgeon. The three main political parties in Scotland

:58:13.:58:16.

each have female leaders, the Conservatives, Labour and the SNP.

:58:17.:58:22.

Do you think the SNP have it targets for a greater proportion of female

:58:23.:58:27.

MPs? How would you like to lake that happen? How can that be achheved? It

:58:28.:58:33.

is more than ensuring you h`ve better representation in Parliament.

:58:34.:58:36.

When you have the opportunity to make decisions as First Minhster Rod

:58:37.:58:40.

Parliamentary group leader, you saw an obligation, I think, to work out

:58:41.:58:45.

what the balances in your parliamentary team. When thd First

:58:46.:58:48.

Minister became First Minister she ensure gender gender balancd

:58:49.:58:50.

Cabinet, one of the few in the world. When I had the good fortune

:58:51.:58:56.

to remain as SNP group leaddr of the party that was the third political

:58:57.:59:02.

party in this place, I was hn a unique situation, no party leader in

:59:03.:59:06.

Westminster has been in this situation, when from six to more

:59:07.:59:10.

than 50 members. I sat down and spent a lot of time ensuring that

:59:11.:59:14.

the rules and responsibilithes within our parliamentary group for

:59:15.:59:20.

gender balance. Yes it is about making decisions that relatd to

:59:21.:59:24.

candidacy is in making sure that you have more female and minority

:59:25.:59:27.

participation, but you also have an obligation to try and make sure that

:59:28.:59:30.

when you can make decisions that will insure you are reflecthng

:59:31.:59:38.

society in terms of the responsibilities within the

:59:39.:59:41.

parliamentary Government, that he do it. Something I would observe that

:59:42.:59:46.

the Prime Minister at a UK level has not another Cabinet nor has read

:59:47.:59:48.

Davidson done it with than her Parliamentary group on the Scottish

:59:49.:59:55.

Parliament. The local Government elections in 2017, and the wider

:59:56.:00:07.

representation in 2020 it is about representation of all ethnic

:00:08.:00:13.

minority groups and the equ`lity strategy includes the MPs as well,

:00:14.:00:18.

of which the SNP has it. I believe that is the highest percent`ge of

:00:19.:00:24.

gay parliamentarians, it is the gayest Parliament in Europe. What do

:00:25.:00:32.

you think in that case can be done to improve the situation looking

:00:33.:00:35.

towards future elections within our party? You are reflecting a question

:00:36.:00:41.

that was posed earlier about other minority groups that I think is

:00:42.:00:44.

interesting, because without any mechanisms we have gone frol being a

:00:45.:00:48.

political party where we had no openly LGBT parties in the ,- LGBT

:00:49.:00:59.

parties in the Cabinet to one of many. I would observe that with the

:01:00.:01:09.

first black - Asian, ethnic minority parliamentarian elected frol

:01:10.:01:13.

Scotland, it would be fair to observe that the visibly ethnic

:01:14.:01:17.

minority community in Scotl`nd is very small. I would posit that we

:01:18.:01:23.

have a good level of represdntation both in Westminster and in the

:01:24.:01:28.

Scottish Parliament where otr colleague as a Minister in the

:01:29.:01:33.

Scottish Government. We had the first Scots Asian parliamentarian

:01:34.:01:36.

the Scottish Parliament we can do more and more but I think there are

:01:37.:01:41.

busy structural difference between the rate of female particip`tion as

:01:42.:01:43.

opposed to other minority participation. As you know, we have

:01:44.:01:49.

systems in place and no othdr parties have them, we have ` woman's

:01:50.:01:54.

Academy and a women's conference and we have the first equality 's

:01:55.:01:58.

conference that brings together the different minority strands,

:01:59.:02:02.

including disabled members. We had a disabled conference as well. We re

:02:03.:02:05.

working hard. I would like to finish on this point. You can encotrage and

:02:06.:02:10.

exhort as much as you like, but it is still going to take more than

:02:11.:02:15.

that. This is a challenge for the SNP and for all of us. We h`ve to do

:02:16.:02:19.

more than just have structural change. We have to proactivdly work

:02:20.:02:27.

to encourage and ensure we have a higher percentage of partichpation

:02:28.:02:30.

across all the minority str`nds and particularly amongst women. I have

:02:31.:02:38.

come to the final conclusion as somebody where both of my SNP leader

:02:39.:02:43.

services were women and not great fans of mechanisms to changd this. I

:02:44.:02:48.

represent a constituency whdre the local party was very resist`nt to

:02:49.:02:51.

the notion of having mechanhsms in place. I am now completely convinced

:02:52.:02:57.

it is the only way that you can write the imbalance and it hs

:02:58.:03:02.

working for us, there is more that we can do, and I would encotrage

:03:03.:03:06.

those behind the curve to look at it seriously. It is not without its

:03:07.:03:10.

challenges, but frankly we need to do it. I do have to say that

:03:11.:03:22.

the Lib Dems do you look at female representation and it seems that

:03:23.:03:34.

your high was in 2005 whethdr a 62 MPs and only ten were women. In 2010

:03:35.:03:40.

that slipped back and then xou had 57 MPs and still only ten of them

:03:41.:03:46.

were women. At the last election, eight MPs were returned to the

:03:47.:03:49.

Parliament and they were all men. I just wanted to have skewed, in the

:03:50.:03:56.

view of that fact you could beat EA in a reserve Jensen 2020. What are

:03:57.:04:00.

you doing to make sure that women will be part of that and will have

:04:01.:04:07.

an equal chance? I should not really see this, but it was worse than

:04:08.:04:12.

that, it was nine and seven. We apologise. I think as lamentable as

:04:13.:04:25.

their service, various things I could say. Our operation and

:04:26.:04:32.

leadership programme did put a majority of the candidates `s a

:04:33.:04:35.

woman candidate, but not ond of them is elected. We talked earlidr about

:04:36.:04:40.

women being in marginal seats and have to say that my evidencd and

:04:41.:04:45.

time in the party since I w`s 1 shows me that there are no safe

:04:46.:04:49.

seats for the Liberal Democrats so that is one challenge that we face.

:04:50.:04:56.

In places where we have proportional representation, not in Scotland at

:04:57.:05:01.

the moment, but in Wales and London and the European Parliament, we have

:05:02.:05:06.

a habit of having 100% female representation in all three of those

:05:07.:05:13.

places. That is not to diminish our record in this place been

:05:14.:05:16.

lamentable. I am of the view for some time, and as party president

:05:17.:05:22.

and party leader, that restricted short list are all-female short

:05:23.:05:26.

lists are clearly part of the hands are full if you look in her career

:05:27.:05:30.

in the world, the Parliaments with the best record for electing women,

:05:31.:05:36.

like South Africa and Sweden, the two things they have in comlon is

:05:37.:05:40.

proportional representation and all women short lists. I cannot do

:05:41.:05:45.

anything immediately about the former but I can about the latter.

:05:46.:05:51.

When I was president, I madd an effort to persuade the partx that it

:05:52.:05:54.

was right to have all women short lists. Three years ago the party,

:05:55.:05:59.

largely led by young women, resistance for many reasons like

:06:00.:06:04.

Angie Seth out before the notion of having all women short lists. In the

:06:05.:06:09.

spring conference this year, we passed a motion that I lead and

:06:10.:06:15.

spoke on in the body of the debate in favour of all women short lists.

:06:16.:06:25.

To give you a quick run through what the motion said, it provided for all

:06:26.:06:31.

women short lists in every region of the country, every region in

:06:32.:06:36.

England, Scotland and Wales are different. There are strong setups

:06:37.:06:43.

there. We also have all dis`bled short lists and I should sax that we

:06:44.:06:48.

are just selected from one of our most winnable seats from thd

:06:49.:06:53.

disabled short lists. Likewhse, although the law does not allow it

:06:54.:06:59.

to have restricted short lists for LGBT, it does allow places

:07:00.:07:04.

restricted on short lists and we will ensure that as well.

:07:05.:07:09.

The other thing we have dond, and there is evidence that this will

:07:10.:07:14.

make a big difference, is to spend quite a lot of time talking to our

:07:15.:07:19.

sister party in Canada, the Liberal Party there, who talked us through

:07:20.:07:23.

what they had done. One of the things they did about affecting

:07:24.:07:26.

culture, and it is about affecting the numbers in this place, `nd I'm

:07:27.:07:30.

absolutely sure that all wolen short lists are a critical and essential

:07:31.:07:36.

part of achieving that, but it is also right to say that if you don't

:07:37.:07:39.

shift the culture at the Gr`ssroots, you are only really dealing with the

:07:40.:07:42.

symptoms, rather than what light be the cause of the problem. What the

:07:43.:07:47.

Canadian Liberals have done, what we are now doing, is demanding an

:07:48.:07:55.

evidence base, an audit trahl, of evidence from all constituencies,

:07:56.:07:57.

irrespective of whether thex are all women short list seats or not, to

:07:58.:08:04.

demonstrate efforts have bedn made to go and talk to underreprdsented

:08:05.:08:08.

groups, women and others, to try to bring people into the fold, not just

:08:09.:08:14.

as candidates, but otherwisd. Otherwise, as has been said, people

:08:15.:08:20.

like the deer of greater gender balance, and indeed, greater

:08:21.:08:22.

representation and underrepresented groups. They might like the idea of

:08:23.:08:27.

it, but do they will to do `nything about a gimmick that is why I would

:08:28.:08:31.

say a more muscular approach is essential.

:08:32.:08:34.

I would agree, let me give ht is the right thing to do, it is thd right

:08:35.:08:37.

thing to do, and if people don't like it, they have just got to get

:08:38.:08:40.

used those ideas, because wd it works. I would just like to produce

:08:41.:08:47.

and the fact that you are s`ying you are making sure they will bd women

:08:48.:08:50.

in safer seats. I know it is difficult in your situation to

:08:51.:08:53.

identify this, but there must be some way you can say, whethdr they

:08:54.:08:59.

all women short list is in ` safe seat or a seat whether you think you

:09:00.:09:02.

can win. Yes, of course. Evdn when we had our sort of post-war high of

:09:03.:09:11.

63 seats in 2006, after Willie Rennie won the dump thermal and

:09:12.:09:19.

by-election, even at that point -- the Dunfermline by-election, our

:09:20.:09:21.

numbers were relatively low in terms of women, and I wouldn't have said

:09:22.:09:24.

any one of our seat is safe. I think the notion of safe seats is

:09:25.:09:27.

ugly, and dismissive of the ugly, and dismissive of the

:09:28.:09:32.

electorate, but it is a feature of the first past the post electoral

:09:33.:09:36.

system, just not for all parties and certainly not for us. So our job is

:09:37.:09:39.

to major women are in winnable seats. One other comment I light

:09:40.:09:45.

make about the boundary changes Wheeler, bright side of lifd. When

:09:46.:09:49.

you are in a situation without a bus number of sitting MPs, you can

:09:50.:09:52.

impose much more easily. We don t have to worry about people being

:09:53.:09:56.

precious and about whether ` seat is there, whether seat X or Y hs theirs

:09:57.:10:02.

or not. The fact is, it is therefore is to be able to use to achheve

:10:03.:10:05.

gender balance under the balance if that is going to be part of our aim,

:10:06.:10:12.

which it is. So I think the rule is, I remember rightly, it is going to

:10:13.:10:21.

be 50-50 in every region, and given that we are neighbours and

:10:22.:10:25.

nationally, that the category of our stronger seats. And a compulsory all

:10:26.:10:31.

women short lists for all hdld seats where the sitting MP steps down

:10:32.:10:37.

Thank you. You have only got eight MPs at the moment after last year's

:10:38.:10:41.

result, so presumably they `re your safest seats. You would hopd,

:10:42.:10:43.

wouldn't you? Every election starts at 0-0. That

:10:44.:10:48.

is the right way to look at it. So I suppose that is somewhdre to

:10:49.:10:51.

start with an all women short list, but I do understand the difficulties

:10:52.:10:55.

around that. You have said ` bit about the boundary changes, but I

:10:56.:10:58.

would like you to comment on why you think women don't come forw`rd. To

:10:59.:11:04.

my mind, you got to identifx the barriers first before you c`n really

:11:05.:11:08.

have all women short lists, but it might not be the women you

:11:09.:11:11.

particularly need to represdnt you, for all sorts of reasons. So, have

:11:12.:11:17.

you identified anything in xour party, and have you started putting

:11:18.:11:23.

any measures to abolish those barriers, so it is easier for women?

:11:24.:11:27.

Well, alongside the Labour Party, and I don't know what the SNP's

:11:28.:11:30.

figures are, but I'm sure Angus can tell us what they are, in Britain as

:11:31.:11:37.

a whole, in the UK wide parties along with Labour, we have the

:11:38.:11:41.

highest proportion of women councillors, about 33%, which is

:11:42.:11:44.

still a lot lower than it should be, but it demonstrates that at the

:11:45.:11:48.

Grassroots, the problem may not be as hideous as we fear. But ht also

:11:49.:11:54.

tells you that we are a long way short of 50-50, and we have to ask

:11:55.:11:58.

record of strength and local record of strength and local

:11:59.:12:02.

government, why is that not even in our better years, in 2001, 2005 and

:12:03.:12:07.

2010, shall we say, why has that not worked its way through in tdrms of

:12:08.:12:10.

women getting elected to parliament? And that tells you an amount,

:12:11.:12:14.

perhaps, about a culture on the ground. And I identify that as being

:12:15.:12:19.

an issue across society. Yes, you can tackle it in some small part,

:12:20.:12:24.

well, in some very signific`nt part, by creating role models and by

:12:25.:12:27.

fixing the numbers at the top, so to speak, which you can do mord easily

:12:28.:12:32.

by restricted short lists. But actually, it is about understanding

:12:33.:12:34.

place, what you need to givd people place, what you need to givd people

:12:35.:12:40.

the opportunity to thrive and to see a parliamentary career, if we can

:12:41.:12:43.

call it that, as something that is desirable, not just for womdn, but

:12:44.:12:46.

from people from other underrepresented backgrounds, I

:12:47.:12:51.

would say as someone who proudly struggles and self working class, it

:12:52.:12:54.

was a more difficult job for me to find myself able to support myself

:12:55.:12:59.

and my family as I became a candidate, an MP, over two

:13:00.:13:03.

elections, one where I was not successful and one where I was. So

:13:04.:13:06.

that gives me some affinity and understanding of the challenges that

:13:07.:13:08.

are therefore underrepresented groups. We tackle that in v`rious

:13:09.:13:13.

ways. We talk about the leadership programme, which was very effective

:13:14.:13:17.

at getting women into our bdtter seats. They did not win thel, but

:13:18.:13:21.

they were in our better seat, 5 of those handovers eat at a wolan

:13:22.:13:25.

candidate last time round. H also think it is important for us to

:13:26.:13:29.

focus on not just the peopld coming forward or not coming forward, but

:13:30.:13:33.

the people who may be a barrier to them coming forward, and th`t means,

:13:34.:13:38.

there is something we did in the last five years, which was to

:13:39.:13:41.

undertake a kind of root and branch review of selections and how they

:13:42.:13:46.

are done, but also selection panel, and frankly, training in unconscious

:13:47.:13:51.

bias. I think there are people in every party who are out and out

:13:52.:13:55.

dinosaurs, but I think therd are also people who consider thdmselves

:13:56.:14:01.

to be liberal, progressive, open-minded, tolerant peopld, but

:14:02.:14:04.

who nevertheless have bias that they did not recognise in themselves and

:14:05.:14:09.

we all need to be trained to understand that. It is also about

:14:10.:14:13.

constituency parties as well, to constituency parties as well, to

:14:14.:14:17.

give a sense of women and other underrepresented groups havhng, if

:14:18.:14:22.

you like, the mission to be in those visible front line positions.

:14:23.:14:26.

non-white woman MP either, over the non-white woman MP either, over the

:14:27.:14:29.

years, so I'm sure you will be wanting to do something abott that.

:14:30.:14:38.

Yes, indeed. And I would hope - I can't give anything away about who

:14:39.:14:41.

is in line to be selected - but I can think of at least one vdry

:14:42.:14:44.

winnable seat where we will have such a person in it.

:14:45.:14:48.

You have a string of supplelentary You have a string of supplelentary

:14:49.:14:55.

questions, Tim. Ben, Gavin, Maria, Jason, Angela. So keep them brief if

:14:56.:14:59.

you can. One of the first campaigns H ever

:15:00.:15:03.

worked on was a campaign in Kingston where a leaflet went out a couple of

:15:04.:15:07.

years ago saying, it is a straight choice, just as the gay candidate

:15:08.:15:12.

just lost his husband, and ht was a Liberal Democrat that was

:15:13.:15:16.

campaigning at that stage. That s also said to me, there is a problem

:15:17.:15:20.

I was campaigning myself for my I was campaigning myself for my

:15:21.:15:25.

constituency, and I said at a hustings that I wanted to h`ve

:15:26.:15:29.

children, so the Liberal Delocrat candidate in Bath, who were standing

:15:30.:15:32.

against me, said on that panel, how can you have children? He is gay. I

:15:33.:15:39.

mean, how can you end up saxing to us on this panel that you bdlieve in

:15:40.:15:43.

equality when your own candhdates are saying such disgraceful things

:15:44.:15:47.

and delivering such disgracdful things, and also, I have a

:15:48.:15:51.

particular question. There `re a huge number of rumours about what is

:15:52.:15:55.

going on during the gay marriage debate as well, particularlx with

:15:56.:15:58.

yourself, Tim, when it is alleged that you went up to my colldagues,

:15:59.:16:06.

openly gay MPs, and said, don't worry, I will pray for you. How is

:16:07.:16:10.

Well, first of all, that is a Well, first of all, that is a

:16:11.:16:14.

downright lie, OK? Why is it the case that nothing is

:16:15.:16:18.

being done? You have just repeated it.

:16:19.:16:23.

This is on the record and on This is on the record and on

:16:24.:16:26.

television, so you have just repeated an untruth. That is why it

:16:27.:16:32.

is out there. You did say it was alleged, but it would be good if you

:16:33.:16:35.

would withdraw that. It is alleged. Can I come b`ck onto

:16:36.:16:39.

the counterpoint? How can wd trust the Liberal Democrat in orddr to

:16:40.:16:42.

promote equality of opportunity when ultimately, I am facing that, when

:16:43.:16:49.

the LGBT community are facing that, and when currently, your tr`nsgender

:16:50.:16:52.

member of Parliament, who is a woman at the moment, in Chippenhal, is

:16:53.:16:56.

facing deselection because she is eight bit freaky? How is th`t right?

:16:57.:17:01.

-- ABTA freaky. I think the issue in terms of things

:17:02.:17:06.

the candidate said, and thex carry the party bat banner, and rdpresent

:17:07.:17:10.

the party in various circumstances, whether in a hustings or anx local

:17:11.:17:15.

council election, frankly, the Liberal Democrats and the Lhberal

:17:16.:17:18.

party before us have a record of promoting LGBT plus rights that

:17:19.:17:24.

pretty much predate anybody else, and is stronger and prouder than

:17:25.:17:28.

anybody else. But it does not mean that we are immune from people

:17:29.:17:32.

choosing to behave in outrageous ways, and I think I am right in

:17:33.:17:35.

saying that in both those c`ses the people you have mentioned, H tell

:17:36.:17:39.

that it is the first ever hdard of it, but frankly, individuals, if

:17:40.:17:43.

there should be a complaint made about individuals like that, and if

:17:44.:17:46.

individuals have been found guilty of bringing the party into

:17:47.:17:50.

disrepute, and such actions, if they are as alleged, potentially could be

:17:51.:17:53.

so, then potential action should be taken.

:17:54.:17:58.

So a firm message coming from you. Would you say your party is in a

:17:59.:18:01.

general election footing, and that has led to selections?

:18:02.:18:04.

It has, yes. So how many seats have you selected?

:18:05.:18:08.

We have selected and the overwhelming majority of se`ts in

:18:09.:18:12.

England and were, and the Scottish party is doing things differently,

:18:13.:18:16.

but will be prepared to havd a list of candidates, should there be an

:18:17.:18:21.

election at some point before May 20 17.

:18:22.:18:23.

I realise it is a snapshot right now, but do you have an ide` of the

:18:24.:18:27.

number of women have been sdlected? Yes, my sense is that we have picked

:18:28.:18:31.

something in the region of 33% of women for those seats, which is not

:18:32.:18:36.

enough. I think my quick caveat for that is that those selections have

:18:37.:18:39.

been done under the old rulds, not been done under the old rulds, not

:18:40.:18:43.

under the rules that we posted our conference in York. And so, those

:18:44.:18:52.

selections expire in summer 201 , if there is not an early electhon. And

:18:53.:18:58.

we would also expect that, given that many of the candidates who are

:18:59.:19:02.

stepping forward to be short-term candidates for us were formdr MPs,

:19:03.:19:05.

and we have already talked `bout how many of them are men, that come the

:19:06.:19:10.

2020 election, should that be the case instead, the gender balance

:19:11.:19:14.

would be significantly bettdr. So under this current systel, you

:19:15.:19:18.

has selected about a third of your candidates, but you believe that

:19:19.:19:21.

there may be changes? Of the candidate is selected, about

:19:22.:19:24.

a third are women, yes. Can I just ask one brief qudstion?

:19:25.:19:29.

Philosophically, is there anything about the ideology of the Lhberal

:19:30.:19:35.

Democrats that would prevent, in effect, kind of positive or lenient

:19:36.:19:38.

discrimination to support women being selected in the mechanism we

:19:39.:19:43.

have talked about? Well, in a sense, there has been. I

:19:44.:19:47.

guess, as I have just indic`ted the party has been in favour of equality

:19:48.:19:51.

of all kinds throughout its existence, and has led on it, often

:19:52.:19:58.

being criticised as a marginal voice calling for equality for LGBT

:19:59.:20:05.

communities, for women, and for BAME people, and then that becomds

:20:06.:20:08.

mainstream in years to come, and you also have this complete contndrum

:20:09.:20:15.

where we are, what, eight straight white blokes in the House of

:20:16.:20:18.

Commons. I think there is a connection, and it is not dhssimilar

:20:19.:20:20.

to some other things that Angus reflecting on earlier on, bdcause

:20:21.:20:26.

the debates I have been involved in as a young member of the party, as a

:20:27.:20:30.

student, one little of that all women short lists back in the early

:20:31.:20:37.

90s, and the late 80s, the response is always look, we are a Liberal

:20:38.:20:40.

Party, we don't go interferhng, and I understand that, but I just think,

:20:41.:20:47.

how can a Liberal Party seek to represent every part of sochety and

:20:48.:20:50.

then not look like it? And actually, I am a believdr in

:20:51.:20:54.

muscular liberalism, in makhng sure that if something is unfair, you

:20:55.:20:55.

don't sit there. And I'm not laissez don't sit there. And I'm not laissez

:20:56.:21:01.

faire about economic, because that does not create a free markdt

:21:02.:21:05.

situation or equality. It enshrines privilege and prevent equalhty.

:21:06.:21:12.

Likewise, we should not be laissez faire when it comes to equality in

:21:13.:21:15.

parliament and across society, across men and women and all other

:21:16.:21:19.

groups, and so it was right for us to fight, and it took sever`l

:21:20.:21:23.

attempts to overcome that. H think it is an understandable twist on

:21:24.:21:25.

liberalism to say that you should step back and hope things gdt

:21:26.:21:29.

better, but that is not the way you make things happen. If you want to

:21:30.:21:32.

make things happen, you havd to bowl of your sleeves and make thdm so. --

:21:33.:21:38.

roll up your sleeves. The impression I get is that the

:21:39.:21:41.

Liberal Democrats are claimhng to things as to why it is not lore

:21:42.:21:45.

representative of the public games. Firstly, PR. Well, we had a

:21:46.:21:49.

referendum on that during the last Parliament, and it seems to be that

:21:50.:21:52.

the Liberal Democrats and rdspecting the result of that referendtm,

:21:53.:21:57.

because that seems like we're going to have first past the post, so it's

:21:58.:22:00.

seems like you will have to live with that and then elect more women

:22:01.:22:03.

MPs with that system that the British public voted for. The second

:22:04.:22:07.

issue is the excuse that yot are only a small party, and so that is

:22:08.:22:14.

why it is white man in Parlhament. But actually, in 2010, you only had

:22:15.:22:22.

one MP than the SNP currently have, and yet they have managed to elect

:22:23.:22:26.

MPs that are representative of the populations they serve. It hsn't

:22:27.:22:29.

about the Liberal Party is of the moment but there are problels there,

:22:30.:22:34.

and you are using those two excuses to say, this is why we are `ll white

:22:35.:22:38.

men? I think first of all, if yot lose an

:22:39.:22:47.

election,... Oh, you to you at the alternative

:22:48.:22:53.

referendum. That was lost, `nd it was not proportional represdntation

:22:54.:22:54.

in any event.

:22:55.:22:56.

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