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Can I start by thanking you all for making the time to come and speak to | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
the Select Committee this morning. The inquiry on women in the House of | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
Commons is something we feel strongly about and we felt ht was | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
appropriate to ask you to come together. As Parliamentary | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
colleagues we know this is `n issue you feel strongly about yourself and | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
that we can discuss this in a very sensible manner with four p`rties | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
around the table. So thank xou again for your time and for your hnput. We | :00:51. | :00:59. | |
can start the questions. A historical start here. It is nearly | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
100 years since the first fdmale MP was elected but we just had 452 | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
women can appeared in that time Compared to 6005 men, there are more | :01:11. | :01:16. | |
men in the House of Commons now than ever before. I will give yot a | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
little hint about how many from each party. 260 and Labour, London 2 | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
SNP, 17 Lib Dem and aching from other parties. What has progress | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
been since then? I think progress has been slow. I think therd is much | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
more of a recognition now bdtween all of the parties as to thd | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
necessity to get better representation across the whole | :01:47. | :01:54. | |
spectrum of society. I think partly a lot has changed in the wax the | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
House of Commons operates. Ht will be interesting to try and fhnd out | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
whether it has had an impact on increasing female MPs as it might | :02:04. | :02:13. | |
have been. I think both mysdlf and Germany have been in the Hotse for a | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
very long time. If you go b`ck to the early days when we would be | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
sitting till 10pm or two rare and quite often, that was something that | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
put off a lot of woman from wanting to be in Parliament. That is | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
possibly why some of the ch`nges have come about. I think thd way in | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
which the Parliamentary year is now structured a bit better so that you | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
can find other time to do constituency business and | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
constituency activity as ch`nge The year is more balance. I think that | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
maybe making some of the differences. Thank you for hnviting | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
us and I hope you will also be taking evidence from women | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
representing all of the polhtical parties, as it seems quite strange | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
to have four white men giving evidence. That is your thought not | :03:10. | :03:17. | |
ours. I see that that I'm vdry proud to be the leader of the Labour Party | :03:18. | :03:23. | |
and to represent our views on it. We have 43% of Labour MPs are women, I | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
wanted to be more and our aspiration is to have at least 50% of women MPs | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
in Parliament. We have had the process over 30 or years of | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
development of women's secthons on forums and the Labour Party and a | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
big debate about all women short lists that was won and we now have a | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
processor number of constittencies have all women short lists which | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
results in a women being selected as the candidate. I think the hssue | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
about women in Parliament is deeper than that goes back to the | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
aspirations of girls and wolen and their interest in public and | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
politics. It is an interesthng dichotomy. I attend local Youth | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
Parliament elections in my constituency and it is | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
overwhelmingly young women who want to be elected and overwhelmhngly | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
young women who are passion`te about politics rather than young len stop | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
somewhere along the line th`t gets reversed and in their late 20s or | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
30s, most political parties are dominated by young men who dnd up in | :04:28. | :04:35. | |
Parliament. There has to be an insurance that we get more women | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
selected. Our party is keen on developing women's interests. We | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
have just set up the Labour's woman network. They will help to promote | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
and train young women who w`nt to be in politics in the memory of the | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
late Jo Cox. We are promoting women in a positive way within thd party. | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
Labour supported female suffrage in the first place. One of our early | :05:05. | :05:14. | |
leaders in Parliament resigns.. Thank you for inviting us. There are | :05:15. | :05:22. | |
other writing of reasons whx progress has been so slow. One of | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
which over the years has bedn the failure of men to take on inequality | :05:29. | :05:42. | |
for a woman and representathon of underrepresented groups. Men as well | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
as women need to take a lead in fighting for equality. It is | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
evidence throughout the citx and the move towards the 30% target of woman | :05:50. | :05:58. | |
on city boards and that has been achieved in no small part bx Inc | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
urging men to realise that was right as well as woman in fighting for | :06:03. | :06:09. | |
that. I would also say when one looks at leadership and | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
participation within politics and public life there is a dangdr that | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
men tend to have a high confidence to ability ratio and women sometimes | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
have the opposite. That is `n observation and you deal with that | :06:24. | :06:31. | |
culturally. As Germany was referring to before. In terms of our failure | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
as an institution and a bodx to reach the levels we are no sooner, | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
we need to reach higher levdls and get towards 50-50 balance in | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
Parliament. If you look at what works around the world therd are two | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
things that massively affect the numbers in the country's Parliament | :06:52. | :06:59. | |
- whether that are restrictdd short lists of appropriate -- short lists | :07:00. | :07:08. | |
for proportional representation If we want to be serious in terms of | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
the organisations and reallx tackling this problem we nedd to | :07:14. | :07:14. | |
address both of those things. Thank you very much. Firstlx, I | :07:15. | :07:23. | |
would make the point that the challenge we have had with the | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
underrepresentation of women is not a challenge that is unique to the | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
UK. I would make the observ`tion that the societal and cultural | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
reasons that have excluded women and other minorities are felt rhght | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
across the world, and if we look at other countries which took this more | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
seriously than the UK did e`rlier, so one can look at our Scandinavian | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
neighbours, they were able to make great strides earlier than we have | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
done. I would just observe that I think all political parties realise | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
that there is a problem. All political parties have been trying | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
to find their way to help promote the involvement of women and | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
minority groups within their parties, with a view to candidacy | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
parliaments, when they have been parliaments, when they have been | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
established, so I would mention the creation of the devolved | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
institutions in the UK, which do involve proportional represdntation, | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
which did discuss their working practices of the parliament and | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
whether the working hours, `s an example, were conducive to family | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
life, have led to a higher representation of women in the likes | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
of the Scottish Parliament than has been the case in the UK Parliament. | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
But just as a starter, I thhnk I would observe that we are ddaling | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
with an international phenolenon on. I think we are some way to dealing | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
with the shortcomings, but we still have a significant way to go. | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
So, what was your party's approach in the last election to getting more | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
women in? I can give you sole figures here. 1033 actually stood. | :09:01. | :09:08. | |
22 for the SNP, Green Party 216 which is the highest, Labour 21 , | :09:09. | :09:15. | |
conservatives 169, and Lib Dems 164. None of them got in, | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
unfortunately. So how do yot think it can be improved? You havd sort of | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
touched on it, about what your party did to try and get more womdn in the | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
last election. We will go into the other stuff later on. | :09:30. | :09:37. | |
In a number of constituencids, we ensure there was a woman candidate | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
selected. We have done a lot to promote and | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
support women within the party and women's's forums, and indeed, we are | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
taking that further with thd policy-making women's conference, | :09:52. | :09:53. | |
which I think we'll have a big effect in promoting women whthin the | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
party and giving them an opportunity to have a say. So those are two | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
specific areas, and they mentioned the mentoring programme which we do | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
through a local women's network OK. So, we had up until the last | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
election, and indeed, renewdd since, and if we are going to move on to | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
what we're doing in future, I will leave those comments when wd come | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
onto that surely. We have something which beg`n in | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
2010, the leadership progralme, which is about making sure that we | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
funnelled additional support, funding, advice, mentoring, to all | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
be representing groups, but especially women. The consepuence of | :10:34. | :10:41. | |
that was, yes, 164 out of 633 seats in Britain, which is far too few. It | :10:42. | :10:52. | |
is worth bearing in mind th`t of the retiring MP seats, they held seats | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
up until the 2015 election, 55% of candidates for the Liberal Democrats | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
the BLT is, when you get thd the BLT is, when you get thd | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
hammering we got a year last May, pretty much any diversity mdchanism | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
you put in place will be put under immense strain. -- I think the | :11:10. | :11:18. | |
result for diversity, or indeed for result for diversity, or indeed for | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
the party. I think what we have seen, we have | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
seen a good increase since 2005 if you look at our figures before 005, | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
they were absolutely appallhng. They are a bit better now, so we have had | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
organisations such as the one led by Anne Jenkins, which is really pushed | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
and try to support women candidates throughout England. There is more | :11:43. | :11:49. | |
work that is being done on that now. The deputy chairman of the party has | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
been very involved in also helping promote a winning -- Elwood helping | :11:53. | :12:04. | |
to promote women. We're makhng sure they help get through short list and | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
get selected. For us, the Scottish parlialentary | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
elections, our female representation went from 27 to 43% in the course of | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
one election, and that happdned for a very specific reason, bec`use | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
there was intervention. What happened, wherever an incumbent SNP | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
member of the Scottish Parlhament stood down or National Execttive | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
Committee had the power to direct or woman short list in such a seat | :12:30. | :12:37. | |
that resulted in, of the 17 new SNP MSPs, 13, three quarters of them, | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
were women. So there is one conclusion from that - intervention | :12:41. | :12:48. | |
works, and it did work. We have found our own way to do it, and | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
we're having to pick of how we do that for local government elections | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
next year, and we will no doubt come onto what that means for Westminster | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
elections in terms of bound`ry review and things like that. It | :12:59. | :13:00. | |
might take away from the biggest step change in female representation | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
in the SNP is with a mechanhsm with the intention of dealing with an | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
imbalance, it dealt very effectively imbalance, it dealt very effectively | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
with an imbalance. We come onto the boundary rdviews, | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
which we don't know whether they will go through what they look like. | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
So it is slightly difficult to answer. But on current forecasting, | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
and I realise it isn't. And, specifically, considering the Labour | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
Party and the Conservative Party, the Labour Party stands to lose 17 | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
women and the Conservative Party stands to lose two. So I want to | :13:34. | :13:40. | |
basically know what actions, I suppose this is more to the Labour | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
Party than the Conservative Party, they aim to do to protect the number | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
of women MPs in the boundarx proposal review. To Jeremy, first. | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
Obviously, it is a hypothethcal question, because we don't know what | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
the boundaries are going to be, or indeed, I would wish they wdren t | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
going ahead at all, because too many going ahead at all, because too many | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
are left uncounted. Let's imagine it is going through. | :14:03. | :14:11. | |
OK. If it goes ahead as it hs, there will be a number of women who would | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
be in a problem because of the delineation of new constitudncies. | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
Our national and it has obvhously got to consider this, and mx wish | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
would be to have all women short lists where we can, and to lake sure | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
that we maintain at least the current percentage of women. | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
What do you mean, where we can? It is a question of how far you can | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
go in imposing things from ` national perspective, when there is | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
a rule that automatically, `n MP with 40% of the population lake up | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
of a new constituency must be short listed in the new constituency | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
selection, and after that, what we know as a trigger ballots could take | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
place in a constituency, whhch would decide whether to have an open | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
contest or not. I will be asking our national lives it to look at this | :14:57. | :15:03. | |
now -- our national executive, to make sure we achieve what wd are | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
determined to do, which is `t least 50% of women representation in the | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
next Parliament from the Labour Party, but we'll so have in place as | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
an indicator a number of other programmes such as women's repeat -- | :15:15. | :15:23. | |
representation on all levels of the local level. It is nice as `bout | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
selections. -- it is not just about selections. | :15:30. | :15:31. | |
Specifically to the boundarx, the Labour Party is essentially going to | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
go backwards. It is the next election, not forwards, but that is | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
without even taking into account any particular losses in elections, | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
which as Tim Farron has pointed out, is damning on diversity, because | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
women are more likely to hold marginal seats in the Labour Party | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
and across the board. So I suppose what we are seeking, with rdgard to | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
the boundary review, from all colleagues, is what exactly are you | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
going to do about the reduction and the Labour Party stands to hold the | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
greatest reduction, so the Labour Party stands a chance of gohng the | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
most backwards. I fully understand the dangdr of the | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
situation. I have let you know that we are determined to achievd 50 | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
representation, and our nathonal lives could will be considering this | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
burgeoning at my request. -, our national executive will be | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
considering this burgeoning. So as we go into the post boundarx review | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
period, it may well be that we will intervene to ensure that thdre are | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
all women short lists, or in some cases, make sure that women are | :16:35. | :16:37. | |
added to short lists to enstre that there is a choice. | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
Patrick. Well, and Jeremy's point about the make-up of present | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
boundaries, based on data in 20 0, so by the time we get to thd next | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
general election, it will bd 20 years out of date. | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
So I am rather surprised he is so opposed to the changes, which | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
Parliament approved in the last Parliament, and should be | :17:01. | :17:02. | |
intermittent. I think it is important that they are demdnted. I | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
think there is far too much disparity amongst some | :17:06. | :17:08. | |
constituencies at the present time. But if we move on from that... | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
We're here to talk about thd women. Of course. I wanted to respond to | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
what Jeremy said. He made hhs point, and I wanted to make mine as well. I | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
think we have got to do everything we can to ensure that firstly, we | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
don't see a decrease in the amount of women Conservative members | :17:31. | :17:31. | |
parliament, but actually, I want to parliament, but actually, I want to | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
see an increase. One of the things that has made, as far as I'l | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
concerned, the Conservative Party better, is that we've actually got | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
far more diverse representation across all sections of the | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
community, and I don't want to see us go back on that. We will take the | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
necessary actions we have got to take. Without straying to override | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
local associations. The boundary commission of only just published | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
their first stab at it. Obvhously, there are all the represent`tions | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
feel for where we are going, feel for where we are going, | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
probably this time next year, as far as the seats are concerned. But I | :18:12. | :18:17. | |
the Prime Minister taking a very the Prime Minister taking a very | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
direct interest in these matters, she won't want to see the shtuation | :18:21. | :18:22. | |
deteriorate. So at the moment, you don't have | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
any... You haven't identifidd any specific things you are going to do | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
who may be reduced? Well, the party who may be reduced? Well, the party | :18:32. | :18:40. | |
board has agreed in injuncthon with a 1922 committee about proportions | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
of seeds and what happens whth proportions of seats, and h`d a | :18:44. | :18:45. | |
brief section will go on. But there will be some new seats, | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
and some that actually aren't selected as far as candidatds are | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
concerned, and I'm pretty stre, as the last Parliament showed, you | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
actually do get some retirelents. I think one of the impacts of fixed | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
term Parliaments is that it does make people think a lot mord as to | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
whether they want to do another seven or eight years when they are | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
making the decision about whether to stand again. | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
But at the moment, as it st`nds the Conservative Party don't have any | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
particular strategy you could tell it about today with regard to women | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
in the boundary review? The strategy overall for wolen is to | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
get more women into winnabld seats. If you don't mind me interrtpting, | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
that is a laudable strategy, like I have many laudable strategids in my | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
life that never come to fruhtion. One has to know the detail of such | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
us to allergy, rather than just its overarching mission. -- the detail | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
of such a strategy. By think it is more than a laudable | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
strategy, if I may say so. Ht was nearly a laudable strategy, we would | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
not seem to mind is progress. In 2005, 17, at the last gener`l | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
election, 68. We must move forward, so I put that as my defence for my | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
laudable strategy, which has been put into operation. | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
Jeremy, I will move onto thd Labour Jeremy, I will move onto thd Labour | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
Party, so I wonder if I could ask because time is limited, sole closed | :20:14. | :20:22. | |
questions that might help us to get some short answers as well. Would | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
you agree that all women short list of the most effective mechanism we | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
have found for the selection of reselection of women? | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
Absolutely, and I have supported all women short lists from all the time | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
I have been in the Labour P`rty I think it has made an incredhble | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
that the men in the party h`ve to that the men in the party h`ve to | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
play in ending the play in ending the | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
underrepresentation of women, and we initially did it on a regional | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
basis, so we would put all women short lists into most, if not all, | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
selections in a particular region until that region had reachdd the | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
50% that we wanted, and aftdr that, there would be a more open contest | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
where both men and women cotld contest a selection process. I think | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
it has been a wholly good thing I have to say, it was extremely | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
controversial when first promoted in the party and nearly 1970s. It was | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
seen as... I was accused of being a far left extremist for promoting | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
ideas like that. Can you im`gine such a thing! | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
Let me ask you a few things related to the all women short list, then. | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
You said in your first answdr that you believe there is a drop,off for | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
women's representation coming through in perhaps their 20s and | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
30s. What do you think is c`using a drop-off? | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
It is hard to know exactly. Young woman of school and college name are | :21:47. | :21:55. | |
often passionately interestdd in politics and representing their | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
classmates and college mates in school and college elections. The | :22:01. | :22:07. | |
Tehran there seems to be an overtaking of Machell culture and | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
that reduces their representation. I think it is a question of extending | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
the idea of balance representation and office holding. In our | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
constituency parties we reqtire a balance between men and womdn and I | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
think that is an important lessage from the very beginning. In the last | :22:28. | :22:35. | |
18 selections for mayor, do you know how many were women? There hs a | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
problem with this election of Mayors in that in the selections wd just | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
went through for Liverpool, greater Manchester and Birmingham, three men | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
have been selected. In the case of Manchester there were no wolen put | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
forward. In the case of Livdrpool and Merseyside there was ond proof | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
for it. I have asked that the national accept YouTube revhews this | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
to ensure that we do give consideration to all woman short | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
listed for mayor as we do for parliamentary elections. Yot are | :23:14. | :23:21. | |
right to identify it. The 18 Labour mayor since 2002, only two of those | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
have been men. Is there any philosophical reason why an all | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
female short list should not be applied at the level of Mayor? | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
Absolutely not. This was before I became leader. I have asked the | :23:38. | :23:46. | |
national executive to look `t this because it is not acceptabld to have | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
the vast majority of Fat candidates for mayor being men when we want to | :23:50. | :23:58. | |
achieve the same as we want to achieve in parliamentary | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
representation. I want to ASCII some questions about the party wd both | :24:02. | :24:09. | |
belong to. There were 23 potential selections when men and womdn could | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
go head-to-head in a new botndary seat. Based on what you know, how | :24:13. | :24:20. | |
many do you think will be women I would hope that around half because | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
I would hope to get 50%. I `m concerned about this as indhcated in | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
my reply and that is why I've asked the NEC to look carefully at this. I | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
cannot give a definitive answer as to what the rule will be because it | :24:38. | :24:42. | |
has not yet been formulated. I am very determined to achieve 40% | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
representation. Your view on this is very important and your leadership | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
on this is important. That hs why there is a process going through the | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
NEC and I understand that is important. In the Labour Party we | :24:59. | :25:08. | |
have a process where a checker ballot could cause a fool | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
reselection process in a particular seat. If any Labour MP goes through | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
a checker ballot process and they are a woman, do you think it would | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
be appropriate to put in pl`ce an all-female short list there? That | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
could be done. If you looks like we're going to end up with two few | :25:33. | :25:38. | |
women being selected and eldcted I would want to look at that. There | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
was a young woman removed from the NEC by members. She tried to get a | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
sexual harassment policy through the NEC to improve the structurd and | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
culture. And now you are a lember of the NEC and have been for the last | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
year. Why do you think that it not go through. I have now put something | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
through the national executhve which was a statement that came ott of the | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
concerns about racism and wd put forward a policy which prohhbits | :26:12. | :26:19. | |
intimidatory behaviour against individuals or communities `nd | :26:20. | :26:27. | |
anyone caving in a way that is sexist, racist or discrimin`tory and | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
anyway could face action within the party, including expulsion from the | :26:32. | :26:39. | |
party. I am serious about this. I've put this forward personally to the | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
NEC and it has been adopted. That was after I became the leaddr. Do | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
you think that a sufficient on the issue of sexual harassment? We have | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
codes of conduct that apply throughout the whole party that | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
concern behaviour at branch level, constituency level and at any other | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
level within the party about behaviour and attitudes tow`rds | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
people. Members who behave inappropriately can be suspdnded | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
from membership and could bd expelled. There has to be a process | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
to examine each case becausd obviously there are two sidds to an | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
argument but I am determined to resolve these quickly and not to let | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
them drag on. I am very serhous about this. What I read in the | :27:26. | :27:34. | |
newspaper and hear from colleagues is that there is a level of | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
intimidation and trolling which would put the hardest person of | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
going into politics than thd Labour Party. What are you doing about | :27:44. | :27:51. | |
that. It is not coming from within the party, that is abuse on social | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
media that is beyond disgusting If you look through it and see what is | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
there you will see some horrible stuff. If there are people | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
identified as from within otr own party, behaving inappropriately and | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
putting things on Facebook or Twitter, they can be suspended from | :28:12. | :28:19. | |
party membership and investhgated. In the Conservative Party wd have a | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
policy of no one left behind. Do you have that same policy? Are xou going | :28:24. | :28:38. | |
down that route to say that when people retire they will be replaced? | :28:39. | :28:48. | |
Our processes one that the local party makes the decision and has the | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
selection process. They do not have the power to impose candidates or | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
tell people who to select. We do have the power to ensure a process | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
takes place and there is a fierce election and we achieve what we are | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
determined to do which is 50% of female representation. You `re going | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
to make an effort to stop the intimidation? I already am `nd | :29:13. | :29:23. | |
haven't for continued to do so. It is not used to tell local | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
memberships what to do, that disagrees with your view about | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
all-female short list. We both know that no local branch of was to have | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
an all-female short list but we put that on to them. At what level do | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
you think you do now have a role in what local membership does? The | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
national executive of the p`rty can and does require an all-fem`le short | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
list. We have done that for more than 20 years and it has had a huge | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
effect on increasing the nulber of female MPs and we will conthnue with | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
that process. I cannot tell a constituency who to choose | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
preconception parameters. If we have an all women short lists, then | :30:11. | :30:18. | |
obviously they will choose woman. During the leadership campahgn you | :30:19. | :30:25. | |
mentioned a 50-50 represent`tion policy. What are you going to change | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
to bring that back? An examhnation of where we are at the moment on | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
selections for me know what the boundaries will be. What do when | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
ability of those seats are. This goes back a very long way, dven to | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
the 1920s, that women tend to represent more marginal than safe | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
constituencies. This also applies in other parties. I want to look very | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
carefully at all-female short list so it is not just on the totality of | :30:59. | :31:03. | |
constituencies but in ones that are more likely to be one to ensure that | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
we do achieve 50%. So when the bell curve of seats from when a ball to | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
less winnable, you think thhs should be a more woman selected in safe | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
seats? I would like that to be the case. But I do not like seehng safe | :31:19. | :31:28. | |
or unsafe. There is no safe seat. I want to make sure that they get 50%. | :31:29. | :31:37. | |
To go back, you mentioned a drop-off and I posited that there might be | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
something about the culture in the Labour Party, particularly for young | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
woman involved in represent`tion in levels outside Parliament. @s you | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
come across any examples whdre you think there is a particular problem | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
for women? I think sometimes there are behavioural issues that young | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
women are not treated with the respect they deserve and Labour | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
groups and councils and think this probably applies across the board | :32:09. | :32:14. | |
and other parties as well. Ht is a process of respect and educ`tion | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
that is very important. This is why I'm interested in the attittdes of | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
young women towards politics and activity in public life. I have been | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
looking at the way in which Youth Parliament and youth councils | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
operate as a way of ensuring that young woman do continue to be | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
involved and interested in representational politics. They | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
think weather situations with young woman coming forward with c`ses of | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
misogyny and bullying within the Labour Party that we handle does | :32:48. | :32:56. | |
well? I am trying to ensure that they are all examined quickly and | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
sensitively and the names of all parties are withheld until there has | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
been released an initial investigation of it. That w`s on the | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
recommendations to our national executive. I will keep it under | :33:10. | :33:16. | |
review because we have set hn train the process that I have described | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
here, we certain plays the codes of conduct you have described, although | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
they are open to review bec`use you have to check how these things are | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
getting on. It is also a qudstion of the educational culture with an all | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
parties about how people behave towards each other. Parliamdnt sets | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
an appalling example. The attitude of MPs towards each other in the | :33:41. | :33:49. | |
Chamber and in committees, H think we have an example to set as well | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
and we do not. What would bd your message to young woman in the Labour | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
Party who feel they are expdriencing at an addition or abuse bec`use of | :34:00. | :34:07. | |
their gender or age. If thex feel that they are make sure that the | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
officers and the local partx branch know about it and it is invdstigated | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
in a proper way. If they ard not with the uncertain ticket to the | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
stage. Before you finish I know that others want to comment... Journey, | :34:21. | :34:31. | |
you believe in equality, of course. So why is there not all-black short | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
lists or disabled short lists or LGBT short list? There have been | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
suggestions about that. There have been idea is that that should be put | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
forward. I have some sympathy with that. I'll so have sympathy with | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
ensuring that there is a pl`ce on selection processes for people | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
representing LGBT, black or disabled communities. I think there should be | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
processed ensure that happens because Parliament has to bd | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
representative of our society and it is up to all of us to recognise we | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
are in a party political system and that our parties operate in a way | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
that all those groups end up with representation. It is sad that it | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
was not until 1987 that there were four black MPs elected to | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
Parliament, the first one shnce the 1920s and one lost his seat. How | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
will you deliver that withott breaching the equality act? I think | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
you can deliver it by requiring them to be included in the short listing | :35:38. | :35:46. | |
process. Jeremy, you mentioned earlier that this Parliament has a | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
responsibility and I think xou use the word leadership and I agree with | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
you that it is crucial to this. You seem quite philosophical nature | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
about the future and young people and aspirations young woman. I'm | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
interested to know what asstrances will you give to your members right | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
now that your party will do more to end intimidation and bullying that | :36:10. | :36:10. | |
is taking place in your party? You assume the party is rifd with | :36:11. | :36:24. | |
intimidation. It is not. Thdre are some intimidation, and we are in the | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
process of dealing with it. We have codes of conduct and rules, and we | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
are in the process of dealing with it. We are a large party, whth over | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
very fast, and I want to make sure very fast, and I want to make sure | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
that all those new members understand the rules and thd code of | :36:39. | :36:40. | |
behaviour expected from thel within behaviour expected from thel within | :36:41. | :36:43. | |
the party. Just one last question, which is | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
this. Why do you think that a woman doing the job that I do as ` member | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
of Parliament is far more lhkely to receive abuse while doing it than | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
me? The society in which we livd is | :36:58. | :37:03. | |
unfortunately still quite sdxist, in many cases, quite misogynist. Read | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
the style of writing of an `wful lot of popular newspapers that H'm sure | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
see where a lot of the stuff comes see where a lot of the stuff comes | :37:14. | :37:24. | |
from, and the acceptance of... Too ready acceptance of racism, sexism | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
in our society, which is solething in our society, which is solething | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
we must challenge. We are to represent everyone in public life, | :37:31. | :37:32. | |
and we must challenge it. Before we move onto the next set of | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
questions, I know you to le`ve a little early, Jeremy. I will ask you | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
the final question we will `sk to all parties. What commitment will | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
your party make today to thhs committee to make sure that the | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
number of women in your party increases in the 2020 Parli`ment? | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
It is our policy to achieve at least 50-50 representation. We have got a | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
long way towards it with 43$ representation, but it is also | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
important to the cultural development within our partx, and I | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
hope within other parties, that we achieve that representation and | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
that is clearly a route into that is clearly a route into | :38:09. | :38:09. | |
So how many more women will you have So how many more women will you have | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
to get elected at the next dlection to achieve your objective? | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
Well, we have 43% at the molent it clearly depends on how many seats we | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
win at the next election. That say we won... I would put a figtre, but | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
more than 50%. You very much. | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
-- thank you very much. I'm going to question you on the record of the | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
Conservative Party. The former Prime Minister w`s very | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
keen, or did talk about all women keen, or did talk about all | :38:39. | :38:40. | |
short lists, and the Conservative short lists, and the Conservative | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
Party is one of the few parties that doesn't use all women short lists to | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
select its parliamentary candidate, but that hasn't happened. So what | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
are your thoughts on all wolen short list, and do you think it is | :38:53. | :38:54. | |
something the Conservative Party will use in the future? | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
There is nothing to stop all women short lists going for assochations, | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
and I think there have been a few occasions, although I don't have the | :39:05. | :39:11. | |
exact historical record, and was not responsible for those of thd last | :39:12. | :39:13. | |
general election, but I think there was some areas where there were all | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
women short lists, that just naturally happened. We don't impose | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
all women short lists, becatse we do try to get local associations to | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
have as much freedom as possible in the way they go about selecting | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
general election. Different rules general election. Different rules | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
apply in a by-election, but in some cases, I think, there are all women | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
short lists. I was selected from an all women | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
short list that happened naturally, but if you were pushed, and the | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
Prime Minister came to UN s`id, how will we get more conservative women | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
MPs in Parliament, would yot to her, all women short lists are the way to | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
go? I think imposing that on | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
Conservative associations would possibly risk a resentment which | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
would not help that member of Parliament once they were sdlected, | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
or that candidate, once thex were selected. I would rather usd other | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
measures, working with associations, working with women who are on the | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
candidates list or are trying to get on the candidates list. We have | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
various organisations where we do that, so, for example Women To Win, | :40:23. | :40:30. | |
and our deputy chairman of the party has special responsibility for the | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
women candidates -- for all the candidates, and looking aftdr the | :40:35. | :40:36. | |
women candidates as well. Shgh her weird and all those things hn the | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
right way, but I am willing to be persuaded. -- so I hope we have done | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
all those things in the right way. So from what you are saying, using | :40:46. | :40:52. | |
mentoring such as the Women To Win programme and these role models is | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
as effective as all women short lists, or... | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
? Well, we need to see how we are moving along. | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
I think we have come a long way in the Conservative Party in a | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
relatively short time, and last ten years, and with the work thd David | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
Cameron and a razor made it, when Leader of the Opposition, to try and | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
redress the balance a bit. ,- to reason me. I also think that sends a | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
break of message out to constituents' associations H was | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
reflecting on it, that in all the general elections I have fotght in | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
my time standing for Parlialent I have never, ever had a woman | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
candidate against me from any of the party, which is quite staggdring, | :41:41. | :41:42. | |
really. And in terms of the discusshon this | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
morning, much has been on the parliamentary party and tridd to get | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
more female parliamentary c`ndidates in place and elected. But if you are | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
that the Conservative Party as a whole, it is very male dominated. If | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
you look at the professional party, only two out of the ten dirdctors of | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
the party are women. If you look at the voluntary party in my area, the | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
south-east, only eight of the nine area chairman... Eight of the nine | :42:09. | :42:18. | |
area chairman Harold Mann, `nd even in the 1922 committee there is a new | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
one woman out of 12 in that. Does the Conservative Party have a | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
problem with women outside of the parliamentary selection process | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
I think we have awarded points for numbers, and I hope we get ` bonus | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
that the Prime Minister! As to sort of the make-up of parties, but you | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
are right. It is sometimes that people don't want to put thdmselves | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
forward for various bodies, and you can't force them to do that. I take | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
the point on the elections. I don't think I get vote on that, btt you | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
do. In terms of when candidates are | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
selected being selected, I know you thought about boundary changes and | :42:58. | :42:59. | |
one of the areas you have bden working at helping create the number | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
of women MPs and help those potential female MPs that mhght lose | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
their seats in retirement, but historically, the Conservathve Party | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
have been very poor in selecting female candidates for either | :43:15. | :43:20. | |
retirement seats or target seats. Only 28% in the last election of | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
female candidates were in t`rget seats compared to, say, 54% in | :43:25. | :43:30. | |
Labour. So why is it so difficult for female candidates in thd | :43:31. | :43:32. | |
Conservative Party to be selected for either retirement seats or | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
target seats, when they are much more likely to be selected for | :43:37. | :43:42. | |
nonmember seats? Well, as I say, I think there has | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
been progress. There is mord work there needs to be done, but I think | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
actually, we have started to address that and will continue to address | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
that. We have given extra hdlp to women candidates through | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
organisations like Women To Win and other organisations, helping women | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
to get forward in the selections. In the written selection to this | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
committee, you said that a third of Conservative candidates seldcted for | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
2015's general election with e-mail, but the House of Commons library | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
says it is less than that, `round 26%. What is the true figurd? | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
Well, I think the figure I have given this true, but I have not | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
caught up with a discrepancx between the House of Commons librarx, and as | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
we all know, we argue with them members of Parliament seem to take | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
the House of Commons librarx as a certain bylaw which is not to be | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
questioned, but I will check that out. I thought the figure I was | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
given was correct. So are there any specific things you | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
have kind of ruled out? You have ruled out all women short lhsts so | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
together is women into retirement seats in target seats, apart from | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
men touring and, we have highlighted the lack of role models in the | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
Conservative Party -- mentoring is the Reading specific you can do to | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
try and increase the number of female candidates in those seats | :45:04. | :45:06. | |
that are more likely to win? I think the number of things are | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
going on. First and foremost, we would get a better idea what we | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
expect those seats to be, and those people that are affected or not | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
affected by changes in how we work with those. But the work th`t we are | :45:19. | :45:26. | |
doing, there is more to be done I go back to the point that in 20 5, | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
we were 17 women on the Conservative benches. Today, we are 68. So is the | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
party aware of the problem? Is the party tried to address the | :45:37. | :45:38. | |
Yes. Has it been as successful as we Yes. Has it been as successful as we | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
would like? I think we have made good progress in a number of | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
directions, but there is a lot more work to be done, and that is being | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
done through the candidates' department, not just through Women | :45:51. | :45:55. | |
To Win, though that has been very important, and they have bedn very | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
successful in helping us to do that. We had a special video made at the | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
conference about getting wolen selected into winnable seats, which | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
was shown at the conference. So I hope we're made progress along those | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
lines. And just reflecting the boundary | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
changes, the potential impact on female Conservative MPs is not as | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
drastic as it could be, potdntially, on female Labour MPs, but what is | :46:21. | :46:27. | |
the party going to do to ensure that women MPs who may be affectdd are | :46:28. | :46:35. | |
supported through that, and are there specific measures in place to | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
help female MPs deal with boundary changes? | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
There will be. When we're clear on what the changes are, I think all | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
this has to be done... One of the problems in which the legislation | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
was changed, so we can't actually take a decision on these until late | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
2018, does actually leave a shorter period of time for the fixed term | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
Parliament to be able to st`rt looking at this, but I think when we | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
first review that is done, we will first review that is done, we will | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
start to think about those `s the seats to go forward. | :47:17. | :47:19. | |
And the final question, I rdally just want to build on what Jess | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
asked all of you previously, but particularly for the Conservative | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
Party. If the polls are to be believed, the Conservative Party are | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
likely to win the next general election, so the pressure is even | :47:32. | :47:34. | |
harder on you to make sure that if we are going to increase felale MPs | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
across the board, that the Conservative Party have really got | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
to step up, because they ard more likely to produce more of the MPs | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
after 2020. So what is the Conservative Party doing, and you as | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
the chairman doing, to ensure that those MPs that are elected hn 2 20 | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
and more likely to be women? Well, the usual cautionary tale is, | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
on polls, inevitably them. There is on the one that matters, and by the | :48:03. | :48:05. | |
time you know the results of that, it is too late. But I think the work | :48:06. | :48:13. | |
that is being done now in drawing up candidates' lists, in preparing | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
women candidates and helping them, giving them extra training courses, | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
all of that is important. I have just appointed a chairman for | :48:21. | :48:28. | |
training, one of our MPs in the West Midlands. She will have a s`y in how | :48:29. | :48:37. | |
we do the training, right across the board for the party, not just on | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
candidate selection. There has been quite a bit of work done on that, | :48:41. | :48:43. | |
Women To Win, and I don't w`nt to Women To Win, and I don't w`nt to | :48:44. | :48:46. | |
undermine what is really bedn a successful organisation. -- what has | :48:47. | :48:54. | |
been a successful organisathon. As the party and government in the | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
UK, and this question is specifically for Patrick... | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
Sorry, I missed what you just said. As the party and government in the | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
UK and the party that hosts the second female Prime Minister, will | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
your party live up to its commitment and its aspirations for a gdnder | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
balanced cabinet and a 50-50 Parliament by 2020? | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
I hope we see an improvement in our overall representation as f`r as | :49:24. | :49:25. | |
women are concerned, yes. Actual figures, I can't give you those | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
actual figures, but I think the Prime Minister has made a vdry | :49:32. | :49:34. | |
important start in the way hn which she formed her first governlent | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
Eight of the Cabinet are felale so I think... And her commitment has | :49:40. | :49:47. | |
gone back for quite some tile. It is not something she has newly come | :49:48. | :49:50. | |
onto. She has actually fought against where she has seen | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
discrimination in the past, and has actually come through it as well. | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
Can I take you back to, I think one of your first answer is, whhch was, | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
what evidence do you have that women who are selected through an all | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
women short list enjoy less legitimacy in parliament? No, what I | :50:10. | :50:17. | |
said was, if you impose it. I think it can get resentment. I'm not | :50:18. | :50:25. | |
saying that, and I don't be that. I was misquoted if I was. But I think | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
the point was made that she was part of an all woman short list, and that | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
is where I was drawing "Is from So your belief is that, while an all | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
women short list is an imposed, that could prevent a woman from dnjoying | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
the full legitimacy? Know, once a member of Parlhament is | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
elected to the Hausa commons, I think we know that one of the things | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
that does not matter when you are actually in the House of Colmons, is | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
actually what sort of majorhty you have got or anything like that. A | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
number of Parliament is tre`ted the same as any other, so that should | :51:03. | :51:04. | |
be. Do you think that there are women in | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
Parliament who feel that thdy have less legitimacy because thex were | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
selected on an all woman short list? No, because once they have got the | :51:13. | :51:21. | |
mandate of their constituency, their rights as members of Parlialent as | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
far as I'm concerned, are the same as any other. Thank you. | :51:25. | :51:33. | |
More women are in marginal seats. What will you do to make sure they | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
are supported in the next election so we can keep up that numbdr? Quite | :51:41. | :51:48. | |
a bit, but I'm not perhaps willing to talk about it in front of the | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
Committee. The evidence points to the fact that in other countries | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
where they have a good numbdr of female representatives that has been | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
achieved by quarters such as all-female short lists and support | :52:03. | :52:10. | |
mechanisms. Some of these c`n be aired by breaking down barrhers Why | :52:11. | :52:20. | |
have you rejected the evidence of good positive discrimination, | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
because we can see in this room that some of us are here because we were | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
wrong all-female short lists and that is why we have representation. | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
I am worried that you are s`ying you do not want to do that. We have made | :52:33. | :52:40. | |
progress. I want to see us lake more progress. I think the progrdss we | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
have made in the last ten ydars has been to measures that have been | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
taken and are acceptable within the Conservative Party. If we wdre not | :52:50. | :52:52. | |
making progress through but have to look at the other means avahlable to | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
us but we have been making progress and want to see that continte. I | :52:56. | :53:03. | |
have to ask the question, the Conservative Party have onlx ever | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
managed to get 123 woman eldcted and we have got thousands of wolen who | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
are members. I hear warm words from you but how are you going to | :53:13. | :53:17. | |
convince this Committee that those warm words world lead to more women | :53:18. | :53:22. | |
and the next election rather than simply a status quo? Judge ts by our | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
actions and what has happendd in recent years. The thing I would say | :53:29. | :53:36. | |
is that we have made lots of progress and we will continte to do | :53:37. | :53:43. | |
that. We have done that by `ctually taking the party with us and not | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
having an issue as far as the parties concerned. There was some | :53:48. | :53:53. | |
resentment and David Cameron tried an alternate list, although that was | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
a balanced a list, but therd was a lot of criticism about that and a | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
lot of woman felt left out, so we are learning from that and working | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
with associations when it bdcomes clear that has a vacancy, when it | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
becomes clear that there is an opportunity, we work with those | :54:15. | :54:16. | |
associations and do a lot more work in the run-up to their selection of | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
their candidates than we have in the past. We have done things lhke open | :54:22. | :54:27. | |
primaries, which I don't thhnk other parties have done, which have been | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
very successful in certain cases. When you're coming to situation of | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
bringing down the size of the House of Commons to 600 then therd are | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
other problems which come into being during that reduction. My | :54:42. | :54:52. | |
objection is to Angus Robertson the leader of the SNP Westminstdr grip. | :54:53. | :55:01. | |
Over the last ten years the party has been a substantial journey and | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
you as the former party chahrman work quite instrumental to some of | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
the more successful elections that we have ever witnessed. What | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
improvements to Jamaica durhng your time this campaign coordinator in | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
business convener of than the party to ensure gender balance and | :55:22. | :55:28. | |
representation of women? Thd first observation is made for the benefit | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
of colleagues who might not understand the timing of our role. | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
It is a structure because I was effectively the person who was | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
chairing the party, chairing the national executive and the | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
conference, at the same timd as having been our campaigns dhrector, | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
how did we win elections and run the party? It would be fair to say that | :55:49. | :55:57. | |
at that time I had inherited a culture of dealing with the issue of | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
women and minority representation from the perspective of we really | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
want this to be better, and we have had some of that today, and we are | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
really going to try and hopd that things get better so we will exhort | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
and encourage, rather than have mechanisms in place. I think by the | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
end of my period in both of those rules, I realised that was not going | :56:23. | :56:29. | |
to be enough. We could exhort as much as we liked and encour`ges much | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
as we liked, we could speak to people who were thinking about | :56:35. | :56:36. | |
becoming candidates and telling them they would be good candidatds, but | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
they would be no mechanisms in place to help that happen. That mhght be | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
the position of some other parties that are giving evidence today. We | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
decided we would look at thhs and change it. That involved a certain | :56:48. | :56:59. | |
retinas between members who did not want the party imposing as well and | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
local democracy, but we havd gone on a journey that has seen a shmple men | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
mechanisms that have led to the significant change. The SNP is a | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
very democratic political p`rties so is not of them happen because one | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
person wanted, there were pdople throughout the party, | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
parliamentarians and members, who is thought that change we are still in | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
a process because what we h`ve now introduced, all women short lists in | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
some circumstances for the Scottish Parliament, is something th`t we are | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
now doing from local Governlent elections in Scotland. It is | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
difficult for us to know wh`t will happen next to increase our | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
representation because we won nearly every seat in the Parliament. We | :57:45. | :57:53. | |
will deal with that women nded to. I'm being encouraged to advhse | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
someone else on the panel. H digress. To bring you back to the | :57:57. | :58:04. | |
point, we have the first felale Prime Minister, First Minister I | :58:05. | :58:12. | |
mean, Nicola Sturgeon. The three main political parties in Scotland | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
each have female leaders, the Conservatives, Labour and the SNP. | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
Do you think the SNP have it targets for a greater proportion of female | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
MPs? How would you like to lake that happen? How can that be achheved? It | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
is more than ensuring you h`ve better representation in Parliament. | :58:34. | :58:36. | |
When you have the opportunity to make decisions as First Minhster Rod | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
Parliamentary group leader, you saw an obligation, I think, to work out | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
what the balances in your parliamentary team. When thd First | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
Minister became First Minister she ensure gender gender balancd | :58:49. | :58:50. | |
Cabinet, one of the few in the world. When I had the good fortune | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
to remain as SNP group leaddr of the party that was the third political | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
party in this place, I was hn a unique situation, no party leader in | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
Westminster has been in this situation, when from six to more | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
than 50 members. I sat down and spent a lot of time ensuring that | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
the rules and responsibilithes within our parliamentary group for | :59:15. | :59:20. | |
gender balance. Yes it is about making decisions that relatd to | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
candidacy is in making sure that you have more female and minority | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
participation, but you also have an obligation to try and make sure that | :59:28. | :59:30. | |
when you can make decisions that will insure you are reflecthng | :59:31. | :59:38. | |
society in terms of the responsibilities within the | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
parliamentary Government, that he do it. Something I would observe that | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
the Prime Minister at a UK level has not another Cabinet nor has read | :59:47. | :59:48. | |
Davidson done it with than her Parliamentary group on the Scottish | :59:49. | :59:55. | |
Parliament. The local Government elections in 2017, and the wider | :59:56. | :00:07. | |
representation in 2020 it is about representation of all ethnic | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
minority groups and the equ`lity strategy includes the MPs as well, | :00:14. | :00:18. | |
of which the SNP has it. I believe that is the highest percent`ge of | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
gay parliamentarians, it is the gayest Parliament in Europe. What do | :00:25. | :00:32. | |
you think in that case can be done to improve the situation looking | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
towards future elections within our party? You are reflecting a question | :00:36. | :00:41. | |
that was posed earlier about other minority groups that I think is | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
interesting, because without any mechanisms we have gone frol being a | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
political party where we had no openly LGBT parties in the ,- LGBT | :00:49. | :00:59. | |
parties in the Cabinet to one of many. I would observe that with the | :01:00. | :01:09. | |
first black - Asian, ethnic minority parliamentarian elected frol | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
Scotland, it would be fair to observe that the visibly ethnic | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
minority community in Scotl`nd is very small. I would posit that we | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
have a good level of represdntation both in Westminster and in the | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
Scottish Parliament where otr colleague as a Minister in the | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
Scottish Government. We had the first Scots Asian parliamentarian | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
the Scottish Parliament we can do more and more but I think there are | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
busy structural difference between the rate of female particip`tion as | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
opposed to other minority participation. As you know, we have | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
systems in place and no othdr parties have them, we have ` woman's | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
Academy and a women's conference and we have the first equality 's | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
conference that brings together the different minority strands, | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
including disabled members. We had a disabled conference as well. We re | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
working hard. I would like to finish on this point. You can encotrage and | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
exhort as much as you like, but it is still going to take more than | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
that. This is a challenge for the SNP and for all of us. We h`ve to do | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
more than just have structural change. We have to proactivdly work | :02:20. | :02:27. | |
to encourage and ensure we have a higher percentage of partichpation | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
across all the minority str`nds and particularly amongst women. I have | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
come to the final conclusion as somebody where both of my SNP leader | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
services were women and not great fans of mechanisms to changd this. I | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
represent a constituency whdre the local party was very resist`nt to | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
the notion of having mechanhsms in place. I am now completely convinced | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
it is the only way that you can write the imbalance and it hs | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
working for us, there is more that we can do, and I would encotrage | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
those behind the curve to look at it seriously. It is not without its | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
challenges, but frankly we need to do it. I do have to say that | :03:11. | :03:22. | |
the Lib Dems do you look at female representation and it seems that | :03:23. | :03:34. | |
your high was in 2005 whethdr a 62 MPs and only ten were women. In 2010 | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
that slipped back and then xou had 57 MPs and still only ten of them | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
were women. At the last election, eight MPs were returned to the | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
Parliament and they were all men. I just wanted to have skewed, in the | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
view of that fact you could beat EA in a reserve Jensen 2020. What are | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
you doing to make sure that women will be part of that and will have | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
an equal chance? I should not really see this, but it was worse than | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
that, it was nine and seven. We apologise. I think as lamentable as | :04:13. | :04:25. | |
their service, various things I could say. Our operation and | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
leadership programme did put a majority of the candidates `s a | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
woman candidate, but not ond of them is elected. We talked earlidr about | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
women being in marginal seats and have to say that my evidencd and | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
time in the party since I w`s 1 shows me that there are no safe | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
seats for the Liberal Democrats so that is one challenge that we face. | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
In places where we have proportional representation, not in Scotland at | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
the moment, but in Wales and London and the European Parliament, we have | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
a habit of having 100% female representation in all three of those | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
places. That is not to diminish our record in this place been | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
lamentable. I am of the view for some time, and as party president | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
and party leader, that restricted short list are all-female short | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
lists are clearly part of the hands are full if you look in her career | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
in the world, the Parliaments with the best record for electing women, | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
like South Africa and Sweden, the two things they have in comlon is | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
proportional representation and all women short lists. I cannot do | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
anything immediately about the former but I can about the latter. | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
When I was president, I madd an effort to persuade the partx that it | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
was right to have all women short lists. Three years ago the party, | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
largely led by young women, resistance for many reasons like | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
Angie Seth out before the notion of having all women short lists. In the | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
spring conference this year, we passed a motion that I lead and | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
spoke on in the body of the debate in favour of all women short lists. | :06:16. | :06:25. | |
To give you a quick run through what the motion said, it provided for all | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
women short lists in every region of the country, every region in | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
England, Scotland and Wales are different. There are strong setups | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
there. We also have all dis`bled short lists and I should sax that we | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
are just selected from one of our most winnable seats from thd | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
disabled short lists. Likewhse, although the law does not allow it | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
to have restricted short lists for LGBT, it does allow places | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
restricted on short lists and we will ensure that as well. | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
The other thing we have dond, and there is evidence that this will | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
make a big difference, is to spend quite a lot of time talking to our | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
sister party in Canada, the Liberal Party there, who talked us through | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
what they had done. One of the things they did about affecting | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
culture, and it is about affecting the numbers in this place, `nd I'm | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
absolutely sure that all wolen short lists are a critical and essential | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
part of achieving that, but it is also right to say that if you don't | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
shift the culture at the Gr`ssroots, you are only really dealing with the | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
symptoms, rather than what light be the cause of the problem. What the | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
Canadian Liberals have done, what we are now doing, is demanding an | :07:48. | :07:55. | |
evidence base, an audit trahl, of evidence from all constituencies, | :07:56. | :07:57. | |
irrespective of whether thex are all women short list seats or not, to | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
demonstrate efforts have bedn made to go and talk to underreprdsented | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
groups, women and others, to try to bring people into the fold, not just | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
as candidates, but otherwisd. Otherwise, as has been said, people | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
like the deer of greater gender balance, and indeed, greater | :08:21. | :08:22. | |
representation and underrepresented groups. They might like the idea of | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
it, but do they will to do `nything about a gimmick that is why I would | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
say a more muscular approach is essential. | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
I would agree, let me give ht is the right thing to do, it is thd right | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
thing to do, and if people don't like it, they have just got to get | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
used those ideas, because wd it works. I would just like to produce | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
and the fact that you are s`ying you are making sure they will bd women | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
in safer seats. I know it is difficult in your situation to | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
identify this, but there must be some way you can say, whethdr they | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
all women short list is in ` safe seat or a seat whether you think you | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
can win. Yes, of course. Evdn when we had our sort of post-war high of | :09:03. | :09:11. | |
63 seats in 2006, after Willie Rennie won the dump thermal and | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
by-election, even at that point -- the Dunfermline by-election, our | :09:20. | :09:21. | |
numbers were relatively low in terms of women, and I wouldn't have said | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
any one of our seat is safe. I think the notion of safe seats is | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
ugly, and dismissive of the ugly, and dismissive of the | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
electorate, but it is a feature of the first past the post electoral | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
system, just not for all parties and certainly not for us. So our job is | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
to major women are in winnable seats. One other comment I light | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
make about the boundary changes Wheeler, bright side of lifd. When | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
you are in a situation without a bus number of sitting MPs, you can | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
impose much more easily. We don t have to worry about people being | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
precious and about whether ` seat is there, whether seat X or Y hs theirs | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
or not. The fact is, it is therefore is to be able to use to achheve | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
gender balance under the balance if that is going to be part of our aim, | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
which it is. So I think the rule is, I remember rightly, it is going to | :10:13. | :10:21. | |
be 50-50 in every region, and given that we are neighbours and | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
nationally, that the category of our stronger seats. And a compulsory all | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
women short lists for all hdld seats where the sitting MP steps down | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
Thank you. You have only got eight MPs at the moment after last year's | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
result, so presumably they `re your safest seats. You would hopd, | :10:42. | :10:43. | |
wouldn't you? Every election starts at 0-0. That | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
is the right way to look at it. So I suppose that is somewhdre to | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
start with an all women short list, but I do understand the difficulties | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
around that. You have said ` bit about the boundary changes, but I | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
would like you to comment on why you think women don't come forw`rd. To | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
my mind, you got to identifx the barriers first before you c`n really | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
have all women short lists, but it might not be the women you | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
particularly need to represdnt you, for all sorts of reasons. So, have | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
you identified anything in xour party, and have you started putting | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
any measures to abolish those barriers, so it is easier for women? | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
Well, alongside the Labour Party, and I don't know what the SNP's | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
figures are, but I'm sure Angus can tell us what they are, in Britain as | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
a whole, in the UK wide parties along with Labour, we have the | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
highest proportion of women councillors, about 33%, which is | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
still a lot lower than it should be, but it demonstrates that at the | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
Grassroots, the problem may not be as hideous as we fear. But ht also | :11:49. | :11:54. | |
tells you that we are a long way short of 50-50, and we have to ask | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
record of strength and local record of strength and local | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
government, why is that not even in our better years, in 2001, 2005 and | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
2010, shall we say, why has that not worked its way through in tdrms of | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
women getting elected to parliament? And that tells you an amount, | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
perhaps, about a culture on the ground. And I identify that as being | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
an issue across society. Yes, you can tackle it in some small part, | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
well, in some very signific`nt part, by creating role models and by | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
fixing the numbers at the top, so to speak, which you can do mord easily | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
by restricted short lists. But actually, it is about understanding | :12:33. | :12:34. | |
place, what you need to givd people place, what you need to givd people | :12:35. | :12:40. | |
the opportunity to thrive and to see a parliamentary career, if we can | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
call it that, as something that is desirable, not just for womdn, but | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
from people from other underrepresented backgrounds, I | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
would say as someone who proudly struggles and self working class, it | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
was a more difficult job for me to find myself able to support myself | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
and my family as I became a candidate, an MP, over two | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
elections, one where I was not successful and one where I was. So | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
that gives me some affinity and understanding of the challenges that | :13:07. | :13:08. | |
are therefore underrepresented groups. We tackle that in v`rious | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
ways. We talk about the leadership programme, which was very effective | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
at getting women into our bdtter seats. They did not win thel, but | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
they were in our better seat, 5 of those handovers eat at a wolan | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
candidate last time round. H also think it is important for us to | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
focus on not just the peopld coming forward or not coming forward, but | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
the people who may be a barrier to them coming forward, and th`t means, | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
there is something we did in the last five years, which was to | :13:39. | :13:41. | |
undertake a kind of root and branch review of selections and how they | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
are done, but also selection panel, and frankly, training in unconscious | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
bias. I think there are people in every party who are out and out | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
dinosaurs, but I think therd are also people who consider thdmselves | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
to be liberal, progressive, open-minded, tolerant peopld, but | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
who nevertheless have bias that they did not recognise in themselves and | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
we all need to be trained to understand that. It is also about | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
constituency parties as well, to constituency parties as well, to | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
give a sense of women and other underrepresented groups havhng, if | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
you like, the mission to be in those visible front line positions. | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
non-white woman MP either, over the non-white woman MP either, over the | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
years, so I'm sure you will be wanting to do something abott that. | :14:30. | :14:38. | |
Yes, indeed. And I would hope - I can't give anything away about who | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
is in line to be selected - but I can think of at least one vdry | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
winnable seat where we will have such a person in it. | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
You have a string of supplelentary You have a string of supplelentary | :14:49. | :14:55. | |
questions, Tim. Ben, Gavin, Maria, Jason, Angela. So keep them brief if | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
you can. One of the first campaigns H ever | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
worked on was a campaign in Kingston where a leaflet went out a couple of | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
years ago saying, it is a straight choice, just as the gay candidate | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
just lost his husband, and ht was a Liberal Democrat that was | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
campaigning at that stage. That s also said to me, there is a problem | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
I was campaigning myself for my I was campaigning myself for my | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
constituency, and I said at a hustings that I wanted to h`ve | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
children, so the Liberal Delocrat candidate in Bath, who were standing | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
against me, said on that panel, how can you have children? He is gay. I | :15:33. | :15:39. | |
mean, how can you end up saxing to us on this panel that you bdlieve in | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
equality when your own candhdates are saying such disgraceful things | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
and delivering such disgracdful things, and also, I have a | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
particular question. There `re a huge number of rumours about what is | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
going on during the gay marriage debate as well, particularlx with | :15:56. | :15:58. | |
yourself, Tim, when it is alleged that you went up to my colldagues, | :15:59. | :16:06. | |
openly gay MPs, and said, don't worry, I will pray for you. How is | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
Well, first of all, that is a Well, first of all, that is a | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
downright lie, OK? Why is it the case that nothing is | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
being done? You have just repeated it. | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
This is on the record and on This is on the record and on | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
television, so you have just repeated an untruth. That is why it | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
is out there. You did say it was alleged, but it would be good if you | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
would withdraw that. It is alleged. Can I come b`ck onto | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
the counterpoint? How can wd trust the Liberal Democrat in orddr to | :16:40. | :16:42. | |
promote equality of opportunity when ultimately, I am facing that, when | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
the LGBT community are facing that, and when currently, your tr`nsgender | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
member of Parliament, who is a woman at the moment, in Chippenhal, is | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
facing deselection because she is eight bit freaky? How is th`t right? | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
-- ABTA freaky. I think the issue in terms of things | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
the candidate said, and thex carry the party bat banner, and rdpresent | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
the party in various circumstances, whether in a hustings or anx local | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
council election, frankly, the Liberal Democrats and the Lhberal | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
party before us have a record of promoting LGBT plus rights that | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
pretty much predate anybody else, and is stronger and prouder than | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
anybody else. But it does not mean that we are immune from people | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
choosing to behave in outrageous ways, and I think I am right in | :17:33. | :17:35. | |
saying that in both those c`ses the people you have mentioned, H tell | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
that it is the first ever hdard of it, but frankly, individuals, if | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
there should be a complaint made about individuals like that, and if | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
individuals have been found guilty of bringing the party into | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
disrepute, and such actions, if they are as alleged, potentially could be | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
so, then potential action should be taken. | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
So a firm message coming from you. Would you say your party is in a | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
general election footing, and that has led to selections? | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
It has, yes. So how many seats have you selected? | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
We have selected and the overwhelming majority of se`ts in | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
England and were, and the Scottish party is doing things differently, | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
but will be prepared to havd a list of candidates, should there be an | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
election at some point before May 20 17. | :18:22. | :18:23. | |
I realise it is a snapshot right now, but do you have an ide` of the | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
number of women have been sdlected? Yes, my sense is that we have picked | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
something in the region of 33% of women for those seats, which is not | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
enough. I think my quick caveat for that is that those selections have | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
been done under the old rulds, not been done under the old rulds, not | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
under the rules that we posted our conference in York. And so, those | :18:44. | :18:52. | |
selections expire in summer 201 , if there is not an early electhon. And | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
we would also expect that, given that many of the candidates who are | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
stepping forward to be short-term candidates for us were formdr MPs, | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
and we have already talked `bout how many of them are men, that come the | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
2020 election, should that be the case instead, the gender balance | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
would be significantly bettdr. So under this current systel, you | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
has selected about a third of your candidates, but you believe that | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
there may be changes? Of the candidate is selected, about | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
a third are women, yes. Can I just ask one brief qudstion? | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
Philosophically, is there anything about the ideology of the Lhberal | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
Democrats that would prevent, in effect, kind of positive or lenient | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
discrimination to support women being selected in the mechanism we | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
have talked about? Well, in a sense, there has been. I | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
guess, as I have just indic`ted the party has been in favour of equality | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
of all kinds throughout its existence, and has led on it, often | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
being criticised as a marginal voice calling for equality for LGBT | :19:59. | :20:05. | |
communities, for women, and for BAME people, and then that becomds | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
mainstream in years to come, and you also have this complete contndrum | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
where we are, what, eight straight white blokes in the House of | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
Commons. I think there is a connection, and it is not dhssimilar | :20:19. | :20:20. | |
to some other things that Angus reflecting on earlier on, bdcause | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
the debates I have been involved in as a young member of the party, as a | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
student, one little of that all women short lists back in the early | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
90s, and the late 80s, the response is always look, we are a Liberal | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
Party, we don't go interferhng, and I understand that, but I just think, | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
how can a Liberal Party seek to represent every part of sochety and | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
then not look like it? And actually, I am a believdr in | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
muscular liberalism, in makhng sure that if something is unfair, you | :20:55. | :20:55. | |
don't sit there. And I'm not laissez don't sit there. And I'm not laissez | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
faire about economic, because that does not create a free markdt | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
situation or equality. It enshrines privilege and prevent equalhty. | :21:06. | :21:12. | |
Likewise, we should not be laissez faire when it comes to equality in | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
parliament and across society, across men and women and all other | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
groups, and so it was right for us to fight, and it took sever`l | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
attempts to overcome that. H think it is an understandable twist on | :21:24. | :21:25. | |
liberalism to say that you should step back and hope things gdt | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
better, but that is not the way you make things happen. If you want to | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
make things happen, you havd to bowl of your sleeves and make thdm so. -- | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
roll up your sleeves. The impression I get is that the | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
Liberal Democrats are claimhng to things as to why it is not lore | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
representative of the public games. Firstly, PR. Well, we had a | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
referendum on that during the last Parliament, and it seems to be that | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
the Liberal Democrats and rdspecting the result of that referendtm, | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
because that seems like we're going to have first past the post, so it's | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
seems like you will have to live with that and then elect more women | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
MPs with that system that the British public voted for. The second | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
issue is the excuse that yot are only a small party, and so that is | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
why it is white man in Parlhament. But actually, in 2010, you only had | :22:15. | :22:22. | |
one MP than the SNP currently have, and yet they have managed to elect | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
MPs that are representative of the populations they serve. It hsn't | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
about the Liberal Party is of the moment but there are problels there, | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
and you are using those two excuses to say, this is why we are `ll white | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
men? I think first of all, if yot lose an | :22:39. | :22:47. | |
election,... Oh, you to you at the alternative | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
referendum. That was lost, `nd it was not proportional represdntation | :22:54. | :22:54. | |
in any event. | :22:55. | :22:56. |