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Brexit Committee

Live coverage of the Lords European Union select committee session with the secretary of state for exiting the EU, David Davis.


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Importantly, in the context of Article 27 what happens rarely

:00:00.:00:15.

perfect across. I was talking to the secretary, very good friend of mine

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20 months ago, talking about the issue of the citizens right and I

:00:22.:00:25.

spend what we wanted to do he explained that you should come to

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Austria and say that there is no body knows this in Austria. The

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bigger problem is getting the argument across. The week after the

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Monday after the Prime Minister announced the citizens rights

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policy, every single embassy, 26/27, not Ireland because it is a

:00:50.:00:54.

different policy, the 26th of the 27 published in a main newspaper in

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every capital what the policy was, extensive pieces on it and every

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ambassador was sent out to do into these obviously. To be honest the

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real issue getting the message across is at that level. We had to

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have the people understand, the people of Slovenia, the people of

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Hungary, the people of France the people of the north-east. The people

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of Wales. I'm carrying out negotiation on people pulling a half

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from the north-east but not with them. The truth here is that what we

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are trying to get is that point, successfully, looking not

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immediately because there is a stand-off in the initial response, a

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few days afterwards a view of those countries, most of those countries

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had a positive response and that is what I have to worry about, the

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clarity of what we have in the officer, we have a good offer. The

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discussion that we have heard within government around a transition

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agreement or implementation period, whatever you would like to call it

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has varied enormously. Between chancel talking about no cliff edge

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and therefore really raising the question of the single market and

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the customs union membership continuing, whereas others say

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others things, what you think we stand. We will find that if we leave

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aside the briefings which I cannot speak for we will look at in the

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public statements, it is very hard to put a cigarette paper between the

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Jazz on myself, on translation or in fermentation of the agreement. We

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discussed it at length come virtually weekly, since Christmas of

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last year. Similarly you will find on other issues, in terms of

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migration policy. We have said we have both said time and again,

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bringing back control of migration policy isn't the same slamming the

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door to the UK. We want to attract talent into British industry, and we

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don't want to see labour shortages in the UK economy, or part of it, in

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Northern Ireland for example. We must look past the briefing and what

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the official statements are. That is what the real policy is, not what

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you see some unnamed, unspecified beating from unknown people. We must

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move on. Baroness Brown. The government has very much made it

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clear from the beginning that home affairs and justice matters are

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matters that are of a high priority for agreement, and since the

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election has their been some movement in the approach to the

:03:46.:03:47.

European Court of Justice because for example the European arrest

:03:48.:03:53.

warrant is very hard to see how that could be maintained at the level it

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is now without the European Court being involved. Is that an area

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where you feel that there needs to be a bit more give and take, or a

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softer line up? You are right, justice is very important. This by

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Minister takes it very important, as do all, I would imagine. Let's take

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the European arrest warrant, a good example. Our view on appropriate

:04:23.:04:30.

jurisdiction is territorial. So, if we issue a European arrest warrant,

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if we had some analog after 2019 which I think we will have, or maybe

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after 2021 if that is when the transition runs out or whenever, if

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we have some analogue after the conclusion of negotiations and

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departure, then you would expect that within the European Union that

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to be subject to the appeal all the way up through the normal national

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courts, and from then to the ECJ inside the ECJ. If a Polish police

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force subjects a request for a British citizen in Britain, or

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someone can anyone in Britain are there that would go up to the

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British Supreme Court. There, we have similar arrangements with the

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United States, with extradition arrangements, which operate under

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each court system. You don't need to have extraterritorial reach for a

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court for it to work. You can have the same thing in data, let's

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imagine we have data applications. Then the mole asking a foreign state

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and an other states to you in pigeon batterer in -- asking a foreign

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state to impinge on the rise of being the jewel, then we have the

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courts to determine. We have taken evidence from lawyers that said if a

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European Court is not the final arbiter, nonetheless lawyers going

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into the UK courts would still wish to draw on the results of case law

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as coming out of the European law courts, and I wonder what your

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thoughts are. You like it is entirely up to the court. To the

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extent to which it take that on board. Now, it will be entirely up

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to the court, case-by-case. I should raise it, it's embarrassing, but I

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have been in court with such an issue related to government before,

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in which another court Bosman judgment, a Swiss court that time,

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was taken into account, no relationship, but just at that court

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had dealt with similar cases in this way, and I would expect British

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courts to look at European case law but not to be bound by it. It is not

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being bound by it is the issue, you're not bound by the decision of

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another court. Lady four can I wanted to ask a question. -- Lady

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Faulkner. You referred to Lord Boswell on that previous September

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discussion that was had relating to the intelligence and security, I

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recall, I maybe wrong, but let me put it on the table now in case we

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didn't mention at the but we also discussed parliamentary scrutiny

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committee weighed at trade talks happen in terms of interim as the

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trade talks commence, and continue, where you would go in without being

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a privy Counsellor, parliamentarians are allowed to go into the room,

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look at documents, see what is going on. That was the example. What I

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think, and I'm sure Mr Starmer is going to be great in scrutinising

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you come in Privy Council terms, but this committee has an important role

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in the scrutiny process, and I think what people want to get from Europe

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at the time was to have at least those kinds of arrangements, for the

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comments to speak for itself, but let me say to me to this committee I

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said 40 hours over this weekend getting to Estonia and back to speak

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for three and a half minutes, but in order for the United Kingdom to bree

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represented, because their committee and the body gets so the House of

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Lords is rather more with it in that regard. But can I also dart I would

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never disagree. I wonder whether you would be the right to a specifically

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on this was I had to say that when we did these arrangements, I think

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basically it was a private role in one of the departments where people

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could go and hear no phone rains and all of that, at the moment, frankly,

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I don't think that there is anything in this arrangement which is going

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to be private for that long. I think it is more a question of timing. So

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far, every publication that we have will hit the public domain at some

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point, so for example next week as I say if we put in some submissions to

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them, we will publish it. The day we put them in. Now, that may change

:09:10.:09:17.

when we get to the later done table mat yes, and at that point I would

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certainly look at that, absolutely, but at this stage there seems to be

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no useful point. Later on I suggest I will think and maybe write to you

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about it, but the levy forgets, nag me about it, but later on it may be

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different. -- don't let me forget. We find in the interim, if we do

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need to seize some documents I hope will keep the position. As you know,

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my committee, the financial affairs committee can interact with the

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financial services sector extensively. They are taking

:09:59.:10:02.

decisions by the end of this year, so waiting for a decision later on

:10:03.:10:07.

in negotiations as to whether there will be a transitional arrangement

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or not may very well, they may have made their minds up and gone if they

:10:12.:10:16.

need to go, in order to maintain passport and rights to work. Would

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you consider... Yellow actress deciding now. Indeed, some are, I

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hear that weekly. Would you consider besides whether it transitional

:10:27.:10:32.

implementation, this would you consider that allowing the EU 27

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that if you haven't made sufficient progress on the frame for a

:10:36.:10:38.

transitional dealer, how long it will last by the end of this year,

:10:39.:10:42.

and so on, perhaps contemplating that extension for one year? That is

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allowed under Article 50. For the negotiations to continue. The arrow

:10:48.:10:54.

only by unanimity. Yes, unanimity, but you keep talking about the will

:10:55.:10:57.

and bilateral talks with the Bwe are in negotiation. I had this

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conversation on Friday with the members of the national services,

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and the ideal outcome from their point of view, not just theirs,

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others do, but the ideal outcome from their broader view is that we

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get to the of decision with enough time left for them to carry out

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regulatory and physical changes that they need to. If we can we will, but

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we are in a negotiation, and any point of leverage, and there is

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goodwill, but it isn't infinite, any point of leverage, if we say, well

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we had to have this, that will become a point of leverage. So, we

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will seek to get that through. I said, we started off by explaining

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to our European colleagues that we thought it was to their advantage as

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well as ours in order to sort of them the incentive to do something

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about it. Some of them of course to see it is their advantage to wait

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because enough American banks in particular have said oh, we will

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wait until Paris, good luck to them. Of course, they encourage the other

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sides to hold back, say they want to do it. Yes, of course, we understand

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the value of transition. We have been through this in excruciating

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detail in terms of the effect of it done and we will do it as quickly as

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we can, but it is a negotiation and I cannot, and like any area of

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government yellow would say yes, I will do this or I will do that, I

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cannot, but I will say that we will make our best endeavour. There was a

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lot to be said for Paris by the way, but I think we need to move on. Are

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you biased, sir? LAUGHTER Now the important of devolution and

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the effect of Brexit. Thank you Chairman and thank you Secretary of

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State. The Welsh and Scottish Government in the sake of Mark

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Brayford and Michael Russell wrote to you on the 13th of June and it is

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a letter with an awful lot of issues contained within it and I know a lot

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of colleagues would like to quiz you a bit on it. Perhaps I can start the

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ball rolling with starting with general concerns in the letter, the

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general concern I suppose being what they viewed as a lack of

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consultation with the general lack of engagement on the part of your

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department with the devolved administrations, and the second

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general thing was really a call for reform on their part, how the JNC EU

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negotiations were going to work. I will if I could ask on that

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narrative issue for your comment? Firstly, in January this year, my

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department was created to July, one year ago, virtually, now, created,

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as in announced, took a bit of time to build it up. But in January of

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this year we have a JNC plenary to the ministerial committee, chaired

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by the Prime Minister, and then since then we have had for the few

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month running into the election we had three, I think, JM CEO Ed. --

:14:15.:14:23.

JNC meeting. I think the first one the Scottish Government presented

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its White Paper, presenting what they described as a compromised.

:14:27.:14:32.

This was a copper wires that current prius are -- requiring Scotland to

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have a completely separate manager to the single market. I think we

:14:36.:14:38.

could negotiate it tomorrow if it were wanted, but there are issues --

:14:39.:14:45.

interesting issues with the UK single market if it were such a

:14:46.:14:48.

thing. We need to divide issues where we did agree with them, and

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the next, or the second after that's JNC, we had a presentation of the

:14:54.:14:58.

Welsh proposal. Was in many ways much more

:14:59.:15:14.

practical. It was focus very clearly on employment in industry. We are

:15:15.:15:20.

possible, we looked to pick out of these documents issues which we

:15:21.:15:29.

could agree with, for example, the example of protection of employment

:15:30.:15:37.

law. I have said are not least for occasions and the Prime Minister on

:15:38.:15:43.

frequent occasions, there will be no reversal of that as a result of

:15:44.:15:47.

departure from the European Union. In the same period, the Scottish

:15:48.:15:55.

First Minister did everything possible to use that issue of Brexit

:15:56.:16:02.

as a motor for another independence referendum. I basically take issue

:16:03.:16:17.

with the thrust of Mike Russell. I think we have bent over backwards,

:16:18.:16:24.

not to the tool, there will be no veto, a working for the people of

:16:25.:16:33.

Scotland and Wales and in particular Northern Ireland, of which we have

:16:34.:16:36.

not been able to engage with for some time. Once again, when you took

:16:37.:16:51.

evidence in Cardiff and in Edinburgh, they were disturbing

:16:52.:16:53.

criticisms of things like getting agendas on time and I repeat to you

:16:54.:17:01.

that when you have battling parties, it is actually almost resetting that

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we in which we can bring people together or at again and I would ask

:17:10.:17:14.

you in a second if you would comment on that. To move on to a second

:17:15.:17:23.

point, that is a suggestion of developing common positions and

:17:24.:17:35.

devil part of that. I think devolution issues, if you take

:17:36.:17:39.

fishing for example, although it is a slightly different mechanism,

:17:40.:17:47.

telling everyone what has gone on after words, what would you comment

:17:48.:17:52.

on Internet as well as the common suggestion of that? As long as there

:17:53.:17:59.

is no contradiction between our aims. The serious fishing industries

:18:00.:18:10.

around the United Kingdom, some want to be able to fish and other waters,

:18:11.:18:14.

others just want restrictions on others coming into our water. There

:18:15.:18:20.

has to be a compromise between that. In ongoing negotiations in Europe

:18:21.:18:27.

with ongoing issues such as fishing, there is considerable consultation

:18:28.:18:36.

and has been over many years and I would expect that consultation to go

:18:37.:18:43.

on. When it goes to the ongoing relationship, we will have extensive

:18:44.:18:45.

discussions with them. Thank you. I must mention a interest has been

:18:46.:19:05.

in the Scottish parliament for the first eight years as an elected

:19:06.:19:14.

member. How do you think of the Scottish and Welsh common request

:19:15.:19:17.

that they should be more closely involved with negotiations? I will

:19:18.:19:26.

be as diplomatic as I can be. The truth is, we will take into account

:19:27.:19:32.

what they will have to see and worry also about the interests of the

:19:33.:19:38.

Scottish people and the Welsh people. We will talk also to

:19:39.:19:47.

industry and others in Scotland and Wales. When the Prime Minister came

:19:48.:19:56.

into office last year, the first place she went was Scotland.

:19:57.:20:00.

Northern Ireland was the first place I went. In the Republic of Ireland,

:20:01.:20:12.

all with the aim of protecting the interests of the component nations

:20:13.:20:15.

of the United Kingdom Honours level playing field as you could have, to

:20:16.:20:23.

make sure we do not accidentally art and industry in a particular area.

:20:24.:20:28.

It is more than just talking to them. He recently confirmed that the

:20:29.:20:37.

repeal bill subject to legislation subject to the void -- devolved --

:20:38.:20:45.

devolved legislators, what do you think would happen with that? I do

:20:46.:20:49.

not want to go down hypothetical routes. I would think we would get

:20:50.:20:54.

onto that early next year. Between knowing them, it is important to

:20:55.:21:01.

see, to bring the committee up to speed, the repeal bill will be

:21:02.:21:08.

published and there will be elements of it which are aimed at allowing

:21:09.:21:17.

the decommissioning of what powers remain within the devolved

:21:18.:21:21.

administration, which is in effect all the powers they currently have.

:21:22.:21:25.

What powers will be further devolved to them once we are out of Europe

:21:26.:21:31.

and what we need to have to have a United Kingdom level of decision. We

:21:32.:21:39.

need that school preservation of the United Kingdom single Market or

:21:40.:21:50.

comprising single international treaty agreements and that will

:21:51.:21:54.

happen over the course of the next six to nine months. Do you think the

:21:55.:22:08.

government is being sufficiently proactive in thinking up solutions

:22:09.:22:21.

with regard to Ireland? Let me divide the problems into two groups.

:22:22.:22:26.

Those relate to Northern Ireland and those that relate to the Republic.

:22:27.:22:35.

In Northern Ireland, the first one is the preservation of the peace

:22:36.:22:42.

process and the preservation of the Belfast agreement. One of the

:22:43.:22:53.

primary elements for the preservation of the visible border

:22:54.:22:58.

and whilst at the same time been able to maintain an external border

:22:59.:23:07.

of the European Union. A lot will be according to how we can operate a

:23:08.:23:12.

customs system and that could involve a variety of things, such as

:23:13.:23:16.

whether we use in trusted trader schemes, to allow people to go

:23:17.:23:23.

across the border without being stopped, of whether we can use

:23:24.:23:30.

pre-tagged containers, that sort of thing. That is one area where

:23:31.:23:38.

talking has started. That will slightly be changed by the new

:23:39.:23:45.

government elected in Ireland. I talked to the new secretary of state

:23:46.:23:49.

they are the other day and these discussions will continue. But these

:23:50.:23:55.

are ongoing relationships. We are nowhere near any solution. But also

:23:56.:24:00.

what happens to Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, exports? A lot

:24:01.:24:09.

of them come to us but also go through the rest of the United

:24:10.:24:12.

Kingdom to the continent. How do we maintain that? We are giving thought

:24:13.:24:22.

to that as well. We are not nearer resolution on this because we have

:24:23.:24:27.

had no Northern Ireland executive to help deal with it. There has also

:24:28.:24:32.

been a change of government in the South. We will not actually have the

:24:33.:24:39.

solution to the Ireland issues probably until near the end of the

:24:40.:24:48.

Brexit negotiations. If we have a comprehensive free trade agreement,

:24:49.:24:52.

we could get away with later customs agreements than we otherwise would.

:24:53.:25:02.

It came a piece of legislation would be the rules of origin. We are

:25:03.:25:09.

making this speed, all I can see. It is not as fast as perhaps I would

:25:10.:25:19.

like. As far as the government agreement with the DUP what steps

:25:20.:25:28.

are you taking to make sure the voice of the nationalist community

:25:29.:25:37.

is being here? I tried to talk to both sides. The confidences apply

:25:38.:25:50.

but does not really impinge on our policy because both sides of the

:25:51.:25:57.

argument, of the executive in Northern Ireland, want to see that

:25:58.:26:02.

open border maintained, so I do not think there is any controversy

:26:03.:26:10.

there. I do not want to leap around in groups, because it is a very

:26:11.:26:16.

sensitive area probably try and sort out the Northern Ireland executive,

:26:17.:26:21.

we get through that, I will try and make arrangements to speak to both

:26:22.:26:25.

the major components of the executive. Could you give is another

:26:26.:26:31.

ten minutes to finish off the questions? The question on

:26:32.:26:41.

citizenship are important. Citizens rights. I notice something of key

:26:42.:26:47.

interest to yourself and to millions of people in this country and in the

:26:48.:26:53.

European Union who are currently held in suspense were awaiting the

:26:54.:26:59.

answers. The Justice committee recommended that unilateral

:27:00.:27:06.

recommendation of confirming European Union citizens rates within

:27:07.:27:10.

this country on the basis that its primary responsibility was for

:27:11.:27:18.

British citizens within the European Union. Many felt that was not

:27:19.:27:25.

helpful. There are reports today of how things are softening in the

:27:26.:27:29.

restriction and duration of it, perhaps you could enlighten as

:27:30.:27:33.

Mortimer. I guess my question is simply this, can you tell us where

:27:34.:27:39.

we are with it, what things remain and what is the timetable for

:27:40.:27:45.

getting the? How long will the suspense B is the question many

:27:46.:27:50.

people love? We made a sustained effort to get that message across to

:27:51.:27:55.

the people of the countries involved. For two reasons, one to

:27:56.:28:07.

influence the government, but also because it impacted on people here.

:28:08.:28:14.

In terms of the areas of difference, the first area we do not see the

:28:15.:28:27.

European courts to be involved. It would be unique for them to be

:28:28.:28:33.

involved in extraterritorial jurisdiction rather than on this

:28:34.:28:37.

rather limited operations in Ukraine. We do not see any need and

:28:38.:28:43.

many other member states do not see a need for it, but what they do want

:28:44.:28:47.

is some guarantee that it is going to be sustained, that the rates

:28:48.:28:53.

within the European Union will be sustained. We understand that and it

:28:54.:29:04.

will be an act of Parliament. That will be enforced by the British

:29:05.:29:14.

courts. But it will also be backed up by the treaty, so it will be

:29:15.:29:19.

subject to international and European law in maintaining the

:29:20.:29:29.

rates, so that is where we are. He vast proportion of the people did

:29:30.:29:34.

not see a problem with the European Court issue. We want to give them

:29:35.:29:42.

confidence that we will get past that hurdle. That is the

:29:43.:29:43.

expectation. I could see our citizens are at the

:29:44.:29:53.

behest of the Europeans on this bit and do not believe they will reverse

:29:54.:29:58.

its either and I do believe the need to give everyone confidence. In

:29:59.:30:02.

terms of the actual rights, we addressed that, there is a lot of

:30:03.:30:09.

real if dues and a lot of mythology. When you hear about people being

:30:10.:30:14.

deported which turned out to be security issue, so we try to deal

:30:15.:30:17.

with the worries and one of them was the issue of people thinking somehow

:30:18.:30:25.

we would treat European citizens in the UK are second-class citizens in

:30:26.:30:29.

some way. What we are trying to do is make this as close to British

:30:30.:30:35.

citizenship without the general election vote in every other

:30:36.:30:41.

respect, in terms of employment rights, economic rights, welfare

:30:42.:30:44.

rights, health rights, education rights. Pension rights, all of these

:30:45.:30:51.

will be the same. That is what we set out to do but there is one

:30:52.:30:57.

differential which is the question of the ability to bring the family

:30:58.:31:01.

members from another country, that is the difference. At the moment we

:31:02.:31:06.

do not have that right for British citizens as we agonised over this

:31:07.:31:11.

and thought it would not be right to give 3 million people write British

:31:12.:31:18.

citizens have not got. And they would not in Australia America or

:31:19.:31:23.

somewhere. That is one of the areas of tension. The other one which we

:31:24.:31:30.

have left open is exactly when the date falls. What we tried to do is

:31:31.:31:36.

to say whatever it is it will not be before the accession date, the

:31:37.:31:44.

Article 50 date. Because that gave people nine months or so after the

:31:45.:31:48.

referendum results will be with known it was coming. We did not want

:31:49.:31:56.

to say to anybody that had come here in good faith expecting their rights

:31:57.:32:01.

to be preserved to lose the fundamental main rights. Where it

:32:02.:32:08.

ends up, it will not be any earlier than that not later than the

:32:09.:32:12.

departure date but where it ends up is up for discussion. We do not want

:32:13.:32:16.

to give a date so far in the future that will attract people to come

:32:17.:32:22.

here for welfare tourism. We try to be as fair as possible, we tried to

:32:23.:32:26.

do it in such a way that does not lead to other misunderstandings, it

:32:27.:32:33.

has, even so. We are trying to avoid that. We will be discussing that

:32:34.:32:44.

next week. I shared this committee that created

:32:45.:32:49.

the report on acquired rates of EU citizens. I worked on it. It sounds

:32:50.:32:55.

to me as though this issue of the red line is one you to order the

:32:56.:33:00.

European Court of Justice, that it is a red line for the Government and

:33:01.:33:04.

you hold that view, even if others in your own Cabinet take a different

:33:05.:33:07.

view. It seems unnecessary to be any

:33:08.:33:10.

different. I wanted to point out areas it may

:33:11.:33:15.

make a difference. There are people who may be listening who are living

:33:16.:33:20.

in Spain or somewhere you might to hear with issues arise which they

:33:21.:33:24.

take through to Spanish courts to do with their rights, you make it clear

:33:25.:33:29.

to them the Spanish courts or the Polish courts are the only recourse

:33:30.:33:34.

and they will not be an overarching court which deals with supranational

:33:35.:33:39.

issues such as the right they feel they have acquired.

:33:40.:33:46.

That decision is for Spain and the European Union itself. We think our

:33:47.:33:49.

Supreme Court is probably good for that purpose.

:33:50.:33:53.

You're seeing our Supreme Court is fine for Europeans living here but

:33:54.:33:57.

you are basically saying to British people abroad, and in the same way

:33:58.:34:05.

the court of Spain or OK to deal with you and Italy and Poland, that

:34:06.:34:10.

is the message coming today. If I lived in the country I accept

:34:11.:34:16.

the rule of law in that country. One of the things you said an

:34:17.:34:23.

answering was if on the issue of the Euro warrant, it was basically

:34:24.:34:26.

territorial and should not be European Court of Justice take a

:34:27.:34:32.

different view, and you said there is nothing wrong with people

:34:33.:34:37.

invoking law from other jurisdictions. Our courts... They do

:34:38.:34:42.

that anyway. That is not right. We do it with regard to common law

:34:43.:34:46.

matters from other courts, in relation to European matters when we

:34:47.:34:54.

were in the year but not -- we do not for people in Britain of

:34:55.:35:01.

Tanzania or the law of China -- invoke the law.

:35:02.:35:10.

You will find it very rare our courts will do anything, but the

:35:11.:35:15.

question being raised, the point of European dipping chords as there is

:35:16.:35:19.

an anxiety that if we are going to be travelling, parallel lines and

:35:20.:35:24.

trading with Europe and do things in the reciprocal basis we should be

:35:25.:35:27.

travelling in the same direction on these issues to do with law, our law

:35:28.:35:33.

should work in hand sweat developed in parallel lines. You agree or not?

:35:34.:35:42.

I think to a large extent most of western law developed in parallel

:35:43.:35:46.

lines but not the same lines. The point of the referendum was it was a

:35:47.:35:53.

decision of control, of control of laws, control the borders, control

:35:54.:35:56.

of money, those were the three big issues that dominated. That is what

:35:57.:36:11.

I have to deliver. Not giving control to another legislative and

:36:12.:36:15.

another judicial authority. I want to press you on this because

:36:16.:36:19.

we have been the evidence on a number of matters to do with law and

:36:20.:36:27.

one of the great things are across Europe which have enhanced our

:36:28.:36:33.

world, and you do is to world civilisation, one of the great

:36:34.:36:36.

civilising forces has been we actually have a reciprocal

:36:37.:36:42.

fundamental principle and how we deal with matters of law and it has

:36:43.:36:47.

been developed in a very impressive way which is envied by other parts

:36:48.:36:51.

of the world. One of the things that happens is if a British person is

:36:52.:36:55.

married to an Italian and they divorced and have children and the

:36:56.:37:01.

British person is one thing, the mother of the children who wants her

:37:02.:37:06.

tell your husband to pay for the maintenance of the children and he

:37:07.:37:12.

is reluctant to do so, she can get an order in the courts here and the

:37:13.:37:19.

order will be enforced in Italy. Because of this reciprocal

:37:20.:37:24.

arrangements we have around enforcement. You cannot get back to

:37:25.:37:29.

work in China or other places and it is because of the arrangements

:37:30.:37:35.

developed over 40 years. In the new arrangements and negotiations has,

:37:36.:37:40.

well you have that sort of thing in mind?

:37:41.:37:44.

That is not quite the same. It is all to do the same sort of thing.

:37:45.:37:49.

For a lawyer you are being very vague.

:37:50.:37:55.

If you want to do things across borders and have trading

:37:56.:37:59.

arrangements across borders, manages across borders and you want to have

:38:00.:38:03.

law operating across those borders you end up having to have

:38:04.:38:06.

overarching supranational courts and that is the bit of that that was

:38:07.:38:10.

never discussed in the referendum and the piece that is missing in

:38:11.:38:15.

much of what is being discussed now. If the ordinary people of Britain

:38:16.:38:20.

realised some of this and enforcement of orders will not be

:38:21.:38:24.

taking place they might actually be thinking if only I had no one that I

:38:25.:38:29.

might have reached a very different decision in how I voted. I do not

:38:30.:38:35.

accept your premise. The simple truth is the effective system of

:38:36.:38:40.

judicial cooperation is perfectly achievable.

:38:41.:38:45.

So what will you do with trading arrangements were you happy trading

:38:46.:38:49.

arrangement with someone in Germany and that German company goes bust

:38:50.:38:53.

and you want to get your compensation? We have arrangements

:38:54.:38:57.

to make that possible currently and it is through the overarching

:38:58.:39:02.

principles and overarching court. What would you do if the same thing

:39:03.:39:09.

happened in New Zealand or America? Sometimes, as your colleague says,

:39:10.:39:12.

you are told to go whistle. That is what happens. This is our Foreign

:39:13.:39:19.

Secretary. I'm afraid you are making enormous

:39:20.:39:28.

generalisations. I work in international trade and on many

:39:29.:39:32.

occasion had to enforce judgments across other judicial areas and it

:39:33.:39:37.

is perfectly possible all the time. It is all other than the EU is. I

:39:38.:39:43.

suggest the enforcement arrangements across Europe have in fact, with

:39:44.:39:47.

great success and lawyers in Britain are very anxious about what will

:39:48.:39:52.

happen with those enforcement procedures.

:39:53.:39:55.

We can do this without subjecting ourselves to foreign courts.

:39:56.:40:02.

Can I pick up on the point that began this Salah said of questions

:40:03.:40:09.

about the disappointment with the proposal on the rights of EU

:40:10.:40:14.

citizens and ask two questions, the first one is the one about what

:40:15.:40:17.

impact do you think this will have on staffing in the NHS, that is one

:40:18.:40:24.

of the very silly questions. The second, and this may be a topic we

:40:25.:40:28.

may be looking at, is do you consider it will be easy to sort out

:40:29.:40:33.

reciprocal health arrangements for citizens in the EU and vice versa?

:40:34.:40:39.

And adding to that, you may be aware we have been contacted by a number

:40:40.:40:46.

of UK citizens living in Europe who said why are you willing to meet?

:40:47.:40:58.

Do I think it will be easy? I will never see anything is easy in this

:40:59.:41:01.

exercise but before I come back to the question on the NHS, we said in

:41:02.:41:08.

our paper on citizens' rights we will seek to maintain reciprocal

:41:09.:41:12.

health treatment and to try to either maintain or creates an

:41:13.:41:20.

arrangement. That is quite explicit. On staffing, the difficulty here is

:41:21.:41:28.

there are a whole series of issues that will affect whether people come

:41:29.:41:36.

to work in the UK. Bluntly, after the referendum there were some

:41:37.:41:39.

pretty unpleasant behaviour by some British citizens, I am ashamed to

:41:40.:41:44.

say. Which the Government was very fierce about, and so it should be.

:41:45.:41:53.

The pound has an effect, the value of the pound, right through to, with

:41:54.:41:59.

nurses, there has been a new and rigorous language standard put in

:42:00.:42:02.

place which may have been too rigorous, though that is not for me

:42:03.:42:11.

to say. These have all had effects. The aim is to bring back control of

:42:12.:42:17.

migration to the UK, not to slam the door shut. This country has had very

:42:18.:42:22.

large numbers of European and other countries' migrants come here, they

:42:23.:42:29.

do a very good job and an enormous value to society and in particular

:42:30.:42:35.

to the NHS but also social care homes and other industries which we

:42:36.:42:40.

rely on them and they should not see what I do in at stopping that, it is

:42:41.:42:52.

simply aimed at managing it. May I ask you, Minister, how many

:42:53.:42:59.

women are on the negotiating team? The photo in the Times what a

:43:00.:43:04.

disgrace. I can't remember. Are there any?

:43:05.:43:12.

Thank you very much indeed. You spent rather more claim that I think

:43:13.:43:19.

you had hoped. It is a sign of the interest the committee takes in the

:43:20.:43:23.

subject and we greatly look forward to our next hearing and discussion

:43:24.:43:26.

with you. Thank you very much indeed.

:43:27.:43:55.

With the Minister agree, like me, I have been very wary during the

:43:56.:44:01.

Brexit process to committing the Government to something that may

:44:02.:44:06.

adversely impact the industry? Essay that on a very positive day for my

:44:07.:44:12.

constituents. There is no wish to do that either side of the house. There

:44:13.:44:16.

is a general agreement on both sides of the house this must be a measure

:44:17.:44:26.

which acts both in the interests of consumers but also in

:44:27.:44:27.