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Nobody, not one organisation was

actually tackling it and doing a

0:58:510:58:54

thing about it. And that is

shocking. You are also opposed to

0:58:540:58:59

the good people trying to help the

world but you are not as good as you

0:58:590:59:04

should be.

I feel, it is truly

heartbreaking that we are in this

0:59:040:59:11

situation but I want to assure you

that we were not doing nothing. We

0:59:110:59:17

were working on it but we have

reached the point where the world

0:59:170:59:22

has woken up to the abuse of women

and girls in a very special way and

0:59:220:59:29

we find ourselves not to have done

enough but we did something, we have

0:59:290:59:32

been improving every year, but we

are not where we want to be. And we

0:59:320:59:38

admit that.

Your organisation is not

the victim in this it is the women

0:59:380:59:44

and girls being abused by the menu

employed in other agencies. -- by

0:59:440:59:50

the men you employed. No wonder the

world is angry and questioning

0:59:500:59:55

whether money should be given to

charities, sadly the people who

0:59:550:59:59

should benefit from this are the

poor people in the different

0:59:591:00:03

countries and we are going to lose

out because of all of your

1:00:031:00:06

behaviours in the aid sector.

I can

see that indeed some people entered

1:00:061:00:14

our system who did not share

guidance, the abused the trust of

1:00:141:00:19

Oxfam, the power of Oxfam in their

hands, the abused the trust of the

1:00:191:00:26

British public who contribute and

turned on the people who are

1:00:261:00:29

supposed to protect. It is true. I

am deeply sorry for that. But this

1:00:291:00:34

lifeline that we give to people

caught in conflict and in disasters,

1:00:341:00:40

I know personally, I came to this

country as a teenager fleeing a

1:00:401:00:46

brutal dictatorship in my country

and benefited from the generosity of

1:00:461:00:50

British people. I think that I find

we must keep going but we will clean

1:00:501:00:57

up.

Absolutely, it must happen.

Thank you, Pauline. Nigel.

How many

1:00:571:01:07

subscriptions have been cancelled to

Oxfam following the revelations?

I

1:01:071:01:13

think about 7000 individuals have

cancelled a regular donation to

1:01:131:01:18

Oxfam over the last ten days.

That

is a massive impact. At any

1:01:181:01:25

corporate sponsors severed

connections?

Corporate sponsors are

1:01:251:01:31

reserving judgment, they want to

look at both what we have done, what

1:01:311:01:35

policies and procedures are, how

their particular relationship may

1:01:351:01:39

have been compromised and indeed

what we are setting in place for the

1:01:391:01:43

future.

And of the new cases coming

to light, we know some of them are

1:01:431:01:52

historic, taking into regard sex

tourism was through the world, are

1:01:521:01:58

you passing the relevant information

onto the relevant police

1:01:581:02:00

authorities?

We have made an

absolute commitment that if there is

1:02:001:02:04

a possibility that a crime has been

committed we will pass that

1:02:041:02:08

information on. What I have done

already is right to the government

1:02:081:02:14

of the countries, the seven

countries from which the

1:02:141:02:17

perpetrators in Haiti came,

explained what we found them

1:02:171:02:23

culpable of. I have also given that

fool listen to the Haitian

1:02:231:02:26

government. But our commitment is

that we will report anything that

1:02:261:02:30

might be a crime and it is not for

Oxfam to decide whether it is a

1:02:301:02:34

crime, if it is potentially illegal

our job is to make sure that the

1:02:341:02:39

relevant authorities whether they be

several police are informed.

Could I

1:02:391:02:45

add something here? Oxfam works at

any one time in more than 40 crisis

1:02:451:02:51

countries, at any one moment. We

have a long history that started

1:02:511:02:56

here in 1942. Underground things are

very complex. You will find in some

1:02:561:03:03

countries where there are laws

against prostitution but where the

1:03:031:03:09

practice is that it is women who are

pursued for being prostitutes, not

1:03:091:03:14

the men who buy sex. In other

countries it is only women who are

1:03:141:03:20

under the law prohibited from

prostitution, the law does not touch

1:03:201:03:25

men. In providing this information

to authorities we must always be

1:03:251:03:31

conscious, are we risking the very

women who have been abused by doing

1:03:311:03:35

this? It is not simple.

I appreciate

that but we have domestic laws in

1:03:351:03:42

the United Kingdom where we can

pursue wrongdoers here, so I think

1:03:421:03:47

we mustn't forget that. I realise

this was out of your purview because

1:03:471:03:50

you came in 2013 but when the

Secretary of State, he seems to

1:03:501:03:55

suggest that Oxfam had with the

permanent secretary then, the

1:03:551:04:01

gravity of the situation really did

not come to light. In the

1:04:011:04:05

discussions that you have had with

the permanent secretary, how far has

1:04:051:04:12

the officials gone down to the

seriousness of the allegations of

1:04:121:04:15

the sexual problems that existed in

Haiti and other countries?

I think

1:04:151:04:20

it is completely fair to say that

Oxfam did not tell the Department

1:04:201:04:25

for International Development

enough, Oxfam contacted every donor

1:04:251:04:28

that have given money for that

appeal. The SIG was not amongst

1:04:281:04:34

those donors. But as in a sense the

parent government of Oxfam Great

1:04:341:04:40

Britain Oxfam also contacted the F

ID, it did not say enough. I think

1:04:401:04:47

Mr Mitchell's assurance that he did

not realise the gravity is backed up

1:04:471:04:52

by estimates.

Since you have taken

over at what stage have you started

1:04:521:04:55

to give full information about what

is going on?

What I did with the

1:04:551:05:00

Secretary of State last week was:

her at her request, give her a copy

1:05:001:05:04

of the full investigation report and

give her a full picture of what had

1:05:041:05:10

happened and what Oxfam did

afterwards. We have reassured the

1:05:101:05:16

Charity commission, who are our

primary regulator, will matter where

1:05:161:05:19

the money comes from that we will

not use words like sexual

1:05:191:05:25

misconduct, which is what we use in

our report to them, we will spell

1:05:251:05:29

things out and then they can make a

much more informed decision as to

1:05:291:05:34

whether they want to follow that

through. We do see the Charity

1:05:341:05:38

commission as a prime source of

formal accountability because the

1:05:381:05:41

money may or may not come from the

IFT. And at my apology, the concern

1:05:411:05:49

is that the F ID is time to be a

leader in humanitarian development

1:05:491:05:56

and in tackling violence against

women and anything that undermines

1:05:561:06:00

that effort of the widgets

government at people as comprising

1:06:001:06:04

their mission.

I appreciate that.

That is why I am not going back to

1:06:041:06:09

far beyond your time. We have is

what Andrew said what -- when he was

1:06:091:06:13

Secretary of State and the conceded

that was the case. But I'm

1:06:131:06:20

interested in now is the discussions

that demo officials had with you.

1:06:201:06:26

How often do they raise the case of

sexual must practice in projects

1:06:261:06:30

around the world? How rigorous Abbey

in drilling down with you? Ever

1:06:301:06:40

since you to go with your position.

How interested in the in the issues

1:06:401:06:45

that they have been reading?

DFID is

an important funder of Oxfam in

1:06:451:06:53

several projects, we do not get

general funds from DFID and about

1:06:531:06:56

10% of turnover per year comes from

ten the night. But as a

1:06:561:07:02

representative of the British

government we have a better

1:07:021:07:05

obligation so I detailed

accountability is to the Charity

1:07:051:07:09

commission, what we have committed

to the Secretary of State is that we

1:07:091:07:12

will give her details on all of

these new cases that have come up so

1:07:121:07:15

they can see.

What you're saying is

that discussions between permanent

1:07:151:07:20

officials and yourselves on this

issue really have not been all that

1:07:201:07:24

detail until now?

On individual

cases where they have related to the

1:07:241:07:29

British government funding, I

believe we have kept them

1:07:291:07:32

well-informed. Where we have funds

from other sources it has been much

1:07:321:07:38

more a sense of what do we do

together to pick up on the kinds of

1:07:381:07:42

issues that Miss Latham was talking

about? Which was tackling sexual

1:07:421:07:46

violence, which the former song --

former Foreign Secretary took the

1:07:461:07:51

lead on. But you never got the sense

that permanent secretaries are other

1:07:511:07:57

individuals within DFID had raised

this issue as being something that

1:07:571:08:00

is endemic in paid work in certain

parts of the world?

1:08:001:08:05

I think the British government has

shown real leadership in saying this

1:08:051:08:08

is a problem not just about the

behaviour of aid workers but

1:08:081:08:12

violence against women and the abuse

of women is something the British

1:08:121:08:15

government has given a priority to,

we're going to work with them on

1:08:151:08:19

that. We have also made a commitment

to them consistently that there

1:08:191:08:22

should not be any surprises from

Oxfam that undermine.

So when the

1:08:221:08:28

permanent Secretary needs of

officials from Oxfam and yourself in

1:08:281:08:34

October, how often have you spoken

with the permanent secretaries about

1:08:341:08:38

six practice?

I cannot say aye have

spoken to the permanent secretaries

1:08:381:08:43

or indeed ministers about sexual

practice in Oxfam until these issues

1:08:431:08:48

have arisen. I have spoken to

readers of DFID both logical and

1:08:481:08:55

civil servants about working

together to tackle violence against

1:08:551:08:58

women and abuse of women. We try to

work on the central business and

1:08:581:09:04

indeed are now doing so to respond

to things like the passport in that

1:09:041:09:08

we talked about.

Maki mentioned many

times that you are answerable mainly

1:09:081:09:20

to the Charity commission but when

Oxfam put the matter to the Charity

1:09:201:09:30

commission, what reasons behind a

door know but they failed to mention

1:09:301:09:33

that crimes have been committed. And

it is true that they may have been

1:09:331:09:40

involved. Why was that the failure?

I can't defend that decision, I

1:09:401:09:48

don't defence that decision, the

report made at the time in 2011

1:09:481:09:52

talked about sexual misconduct, it's

talked about bullying and

1:09:521:09:58

intimidation and breaches of the

Oxfam could conduct and unacceptable

1:09:581:10:02

behaviour. I believe that my

colleagues at the time thought that

1:10:021:10:05

this was sufficiently transparent. I

am not defending it, I don't justify

1:10:051:10:09

it and we are committed that we will

go further. I can see by the Charity

1:10:091:10:12

commission says that this was not

enough. At the time the enquiry

1:10:121:10:18

report which I believe you have said

that there was, Oxfam was unable to

1:10:181:10:25

establish where there was no proof

that women under 18 were involved.

1:10:251:10:30

Despite the investigation. I think

we should actually said exactly

1:10:301:10:34

that. Rather than simply leaving it

out. I think my colleagues did what

1:10:341:10:43

they thought was sufficiently

transparent at the time, we know now

1:10:431:10:46

what was not transparent enough and

our commitment is, we will give the

1:10:461:10:50

details to the relevant authorities

whether in the countries concerned

1:10:501:10:53

or in the UK and we will let them

work out what is right and wrong and

1:10:531:10:58

how we should sort it out and we

will quarterly with that.

Do you

1:10:581:11:03

agree that when the public think it

was a deliberate way of hiding the

1:11:031:11:10

truth from the general public, when

they failed to inform on such an

1:11:101:11:18

important part of the complaint to

the Charity commission?

I can fully

1:11:181:11:22

see why the public has a challenge

to any confidence in what Oxfam said

1:11:221:11:28

and did overtime. We now have to

work hard to earn back that trust

1:11:281:11:33

from the public that we will not do

my words, we will do it by deeds. At

1:11:331:11:38

the time my colleagues reflected

undecided on a form of words that

1:11:381:11:44

they thought were sufficiently

transparent, which included section

1:11:441:11:48

-- sexual misconduct. We know that

was not sufficient. And telling half

1:11:481:11:54

the story is not enough. We have to

go further and especially if we want

1:11:541:12:00

to set ourselves up to be trusted by

the public. We have actually got to

1:12:001:12:02

say we will go the extra mile, we

will be unequivocal in the way we

1:12:021:12:06

handle this and that is a commitment

that we have made.

We have quite a

1:12:061:12:14

few more questions and we have two

further panels will go to James.

1:12:141:12:19

Earlier in response to Mr Evans he

conflated preventing sexual violence

1:12:191:12:25

as perpetrated in country by the

people in country, should --

1:12:251:12:30

shouldn't we expect a higher

standard of people from a European

1:12:301:12:34

environment with the European set of

laws funded by the taxpayer and

1:12:341:12:37

funded by small donations? And could

I give you the opportunity to split

1:12:371:12:44

those two things out because I do

not think they are equivalent.

I'm

1:12:441:12:48

sorry if I give that impression. I

was trying to respond to what Oxfam

1:12:481:12:53

atop the Department for ten national

development about and I was seeing

1:12:531:12:57

we talked about the bigger issue not

only specific behaviour of the

1:12:571:13:01

organisation. Oxfam must be held to

the highest standards of personal

1:13:011:13:04

behaviour. Those individuals came

from seven different countries

1:13:041:13:08

around the world, not including the

UK. But they were being managed by a

1:13:081:13:14

UK agency and we take full

responsibility for that. We have got

1:13:141:13:19

to work on this agricultural level

in the way that when he described,

1:13:191:13:23

so that our values are driven

through everything from how we

1:13:231:13:28

collect references to how we get

them at the other end and everything

1:13:281:13:31

in between. The training, the

behaviour, the accountability. Their

1:13:311:13:36

behaviour was not acceptable, it was

not acceptable that Oxfam tolerated

1:13:361:13:39

it or indeed that is less if -- led

certain individual design rather

1:13:391:13:44

than go three former process so you

have improved commitment that we do

1:13:441:13:50

not accept those standards.

1:13:501:13:58

There was a statement that there was

no abusive beneficiaries -- abuse of

1:13:581:14:05

beneficiaries. I'm trying to get a

grasp of what a beneficiary is. I

1:14:051:14:09

think what you're saying is there

was no transaction of aid or food

1:14:091:14:14

and expecting to have sex but is

there a wider definition of

1:14:141:14:18

beneficiary? Nobody goes into

prostitution as an alternative to a

1:14:181:14:25

well-paid job somewhere else.

Completely agree. Oxfam used

1:14:251:14:36

beneficiary to mean those indirect

receipt of Oxfam assistance. The

1:14:361:14:39

whole population of much of Haiti

were beneficiaries in the wider

1:14:391:14:47

sense of which they were affected by

the earthquake. They were living in

1:14:471:14:51

poverty. Whether or not they were

affected by the earthquake. Oxfam

1:14:511:14:57

tried to distinguish in a technical

way was not the right thing to do.

1:14:571:15:03

The investigators were trying to

say, there was not the selling of

1:15:031:15:06

six in return for Oxfam aid to --

selling of sex. There was a much

1:15:061:15:13

bigger failure and misdemeanour.

you

think there is sex for aid going on?

1:15:131:15:21

Not at Oxfam but wider?

I just want

to say that this categorisation is

1:15:211:15:29

not even something we should pay

much attention to. This is about

1:15:291:15:34

abuse of power, this is about abuse

of women and girls because they are

1:15:341:15:38

vulnerable and voiceless. Whether

they have given them some money from

1:15:381:15:46

Oxfam or from their pocket, it is

still not warrant as we are ashamed

1:15:461:15:54

-- it is still abhorrent. We're

going to route it out of our

1:15:541:16:00

organisation. It's a cultural issue.

We have to fight it as a cultural

1:16:001:16:04

issue. It's also an issue of

procedures.

I think it's a legal

1:16:041:16:10

issue.

A legal issue, yes.

Could be

go back to the issue of references?

1:16:101:16:20

You said the former director of the

Haiti office went on to work with

1:16:201:16:26

other NGOs and what Oxfam provided

was a record of when he worked for

1:16:261:16:32

Oxfam rather than a reference in the

traditional sense. There were seven

1:16:321:16:39

men involved in those incidents in

Haiti. Did any of them have

1:16:391:16:46

references on Oxfam paper?

To the

rest of my knowledge, one did. One

1:16:461:16:58

gave as his referee one of the other

staff in the Haiti office who was

1:16:581:17:07

his senior, who then got sent a form

by another agency to fill in and

1:17:071:17:11

filled it in as from Oxfam. It had

no official Oxfam stamp but it was

1:17:111:17:18

from Oxfam, so because the reference

went straight to the individual to

1:17:181:17:24

be written, the former manager, he

filled it in having left Oxfam's

1:17:241:17:30

employment as an individual, but

said I was the manager of that

1:17:301:17:34

person. That's the one instance that

I've come across on which a

1:17:341:17:41

reference that an innocent third

party, another agency, could

1:17:411:17:45

reasonably believed the reference

had come from Oxfam even though it

1:17:451:17:47

had not come from the institution

and to prevent any of that happening

1:17:471:17:53

again, the improvement that we have

been talking about witches that we

1:17:531:17:57

only allow references to come

certain channels, we have now

1:17:571:18:03

introduced. We were not aware...

Well, we should have been aware that

1:18:031:18:08

that was a risk that could happen

but we couldn't stop the individuals

1:18:081:18:12

doing it. We need something that is

more proactive which is essentially

1:18:121:18:17

the central register, which is which

we are now trying to explore.

No

1:18:171:18:24

Oxfam reference will be given until

we have that database. No reference

1:18:241:18:28

is going out.

Of the manager who

gave the reference, for clarity, was

1:18:281:18:35

one of the group that had been

dismissed.

Could be just go back to

1:18:351:18:44

the 2011 report that you were

briefed on when you took over? One

1:18:441:18:52

of the recommendations of that

report was that all regional

1:18:521:18:58

management teams were to review

learnings from Haiti and consider

1:18:581:19:03

potential risk countries and further

action needed and that was meant to

1:19:031:19:06

be carried out in December 2011.

Where you briefed that that was one

1:19:061:19:12

of the results that came out that

investigation?

I wasn't briefed

1:19:121:19:22

specifically on that. I was told all

necessary follow-up actions had been

1:19:221:19:27

taken at country and regional level

and that central action such as the

1:19:271:19:34

setting up of the safeguarding team

and the whistle-blowing line had

1:19:341:19:36

been carried out, so it wasn't that

maybe thing was a specific on that

1:19:361:19:42

recommendation, but the sense that

this had been appropriately followed

1:19:421:19:45

up was the sense that I was very

clearly getting.

So has there ever

1:19:451:19:53

been an organisation wide review of

potential risk countries? If so,

1:19:531:19:59

what are they?

We have been well

aware of the high risk countries and

1:19:591:20:02

we have tried to put extra work into

them. They tend to be the countries

1:20:021:20:07

with the highest level of conflict

and destabilisation of Government

1:20:071:20:11

and civil authority. So at the

moment, places like the Democratic

1:20:111:20:17

Republic of the Congo and South

Sudan in that very high risk level.

1:20:171:20:24

Any country where you have an

immediate natural disaster is always

1:20:241:20:28

a high risk because it is people

who, like in Haiti, are people who

1:20:281:20:35

have had their lives traumatised and

so we try to put protection teams in

1:20:351:20:39

at an early stage of our response to

make sure we work on the practical

1:20:391:20:43

front and safety fund the same time.

-- safety front.

Another

1:20:431:20:54

recommendation is that headquarter

senior staff should arrange meetings

1:20:541:20:58

with female staff only were they

explore issues of culture and ways

1:20:581:21:03

of working and any problems. Does

that happen?

If I could answer that,

1:21:031:21:09

as part of my induction to Oxfam, I

have done to visits, one to

1:21:091:21:14

Pakistan. It was made clear that one

of the things I should do was have

1:21:141:21:19

this meeting with female only staff.

I did it in both cases. My

1:21:191:21:23

predecessor didn't religiously. --

did it religiously. It is about

1:21:231:21:29

building trust as much as anything

else and giving people an

1:21:291:21:34

opportunity, giving people a voice,

giving women a safe place to report

1:21:341:21:37

these are given to -- or give

indications.

By all senior female

1:21:371:21:51

staff.

It is very important is done

by the women.

It was happening by

1:21:511:21:59

the time I joined in 2013. It's

something my predecessor did and

1:21:591:22:03

other senior staff have done so it

was in place by 2013, it wasn't

1:22:031:22:08

something I had to get involved in

starting.

I want to ask for a

1:22:081:22:16

confirmation about the references

you give. It's common practice that

1:22:161:22:21

references are shown or unavailable

to the employee who is seeking them

1:22:211:22:24

to go on to another job. Is that

Oxfam's practice, that the

1:22:241:22:29

unavailable to your employees --

that they are available to your

1:22:291:22:35

employees?

I'll have to get back to

you on the universality of that but

1:22:351:22:39

don't think it is Donald practice.

In other words, if I am asked for a

1:22:391:22:43

reference, I feel no obligation to

show it to the individual and of

1:22:431:22:47

something is being shown to the

individual, I would expect that to

1:22:471:22:50

have been agreed and shared with the

person to whom you're giving the

1:22:501:22:53

reference. So it is not standard

practice.

So you can be completely

1:22:531:22:59

honest in your references but you're

not, because you allow people to

1:22:591:23:04

leave and move on to other jobs even

though they are questionably

1:23:041:23:10

perpetrators of sexual violence

against women and girls.

I think the

1:23:101:23:16

adventure describing where in 2011,

were Oxfam gave a certificate of

1:23:161:23:22

service. It should have gone beyond

that.

I'm not talking just about

1:23:221:23:27

that, I'm talking about others.

The

note actually says that the

1:23:271:23:34

statement of service that was given

in 2011 said we cannot complete the

1:23:341:23:42

form you asked us to complete. It

says for legal reasons, we cannot

1:23:421:23:48

say more. That's the note that I

just got. It then said he served

1:23:481:23:55

from 2010 to 2014 but what I had

insured with you previously was that

1:23:551:24:00

statement that this was actually for

legal reasons.

Were Oxfam's internal

1:24:001:24:11

investigation included in 2011, the

statement to the public was vague.

1:24:111:24:17

Was it a cover-up or was it head in

the sand?

I can't give you the

1:24:171:24:27

thinking of each individual. I can

tell you what is being recorded and

1:24:271:24:30

what we now know. Oxfam was trying

to deliver the programme of

1:24:301:24:36

desperately needed assistance to 1

million people, it was a huge

1:24:361:24:40

programme with 500 staff and I

believe that in making the decisions

1:24:401:24:45

at the time, my predecessors would

have looked at the balance of being

1:24:451:24:52

proactive and actually saying, we

got this wrong, wanting to reassure

1:24:521:24:55

the public that money that should

have been spent on beneficiaries had

1:24:551:25:00

not been defrauded and carry on

delivering that programme. I don't

1:25:001:25:11

defend that decision but I believe

those would have been the reason

1:25:111:25:13

that were primarily behind it at the

time. I also need to say that Oxfam

1:25:131:25:20

believed wrongly it was being

proactive in that not every

1:25:201:25:25

organisation chooses to go out and

tell the public about something

1:25:251:25:28

they've got badly wrong. That's not

an excuse, but I suspect that the

1:25:281:25:36

motivation was actually the power of

delivery of what Oxfam was trying to

1:25:361:25:39

do for 1 million people in desperate

need.

I appreciate your comments but

1:25:391:25:45

from our point of view, does it not

the click Oxfam is more interested

1:25:451:25:49

in protecting its own brand than

protecting vulnerable women and

1:25:491:25:54

girls?

It may look like that, I

can't do anything other than I think

1:25:541:25:57

it was wrong but I actually think

that the first thought in the minds

1:25:571:26:02

of my colleagues at the time would

actually have been protecting the

1:26:021:26:07

delivery of assistance to people who

were living in poverty. That money

1:26:071:26:12

had already been raised for Haiti.

It was really important that it was

1:26:121:26:17

well spent so I repeat, I don't

think they made the right call, but

1:26:171:26:23

I believe the call was made in good

faith at the time.

We've got a

1:26:231:26:31

number of further questions and we

are running overtime.

Do you use

1:26:311:26:39

your public affairs companies when

you talk about branding?

Not

1:26:391:26:46

normally. We will use companies that

help us with creation of particular

1:26:461:26:52

advertising at giving fund for -- at

a particular time for fundraising

1:26:521:27:00

but we have people in to manage our

operations.

Do you perceive the way

1:27:001:27:06

you have to bid for Government

funding and to donors and members of

1:27:061:27:11

the British public as a disincentive

for being open and transparent

1:27:111:27:15

because of your reputation?

Oxfam

has tried to be open and

1:27:151:27:22

transparent, it hasn't tried hard

enough and we haven't always

1:27:221:27:26

succeeded but far more than ten

years, well before 2007, Oxfam has

1:27:261:27:30

actually published a list of

incidents in our annual report. Not

1:27:301:27:38

many organisations do that. We've

shared details data or data with

1:27:381:27:44

regulators. That all of our

obligation. We need to go further

1:27:441:27:49

and I suspect many times there is a

difficult question about how much do

1:27:491:27:53

we say and what will the impact be?

What I can reassure you is that

1:27:531:27:58

Caroline as chair has said

explicitly we will never allow

1:27:581:28:02

Oxfam's reputation to be put ahead

of our absolute commitment to

1:28:021:28:08

deliver our mission.

I was going to

ask you, what more do you think the

1:28:081:28:15

trustees should have done

specifically in 2011? In the

1:28:151:28:20

response to the scandal at the time?

As I said, I start from the presence

1:28:201:28:28

that secrecy is an anathema to trust

and transparency is a key tool to

1:28:281:28:35

rooting out the sort of behaviour

and changing the values of the

1:28:351:28:41

organisation, and I think it has a

value beyond the accountability

1:28:411:28:43

value in terms of culture change. In

2011, I think it should have been

1:28:431:28:49

made clear that the allegations were

about prostitution and that she had

1:28:491:28:53

been clear in the report to the

Charity commission and in the report

1:28:531:28:56

to DFID and in the press release. It

should essentially have been more

1:28:561:29:04

explicit.

One of the things that

came out last week was the use of

1:29:041:29:12

prostitution in contracts because of

Civil Liberties. Slightly bizarre in

1:29:121:29:17

my view. Is there nothing in the

contract that would effectively

1:29:171:29:25

covered that? The two things that

DFID does is talking about tackling

1:29:251:29:30

global poverty. So that would have

covered that?

1:29:301:29:40

We do have that cattle and it should

have covered it. It is absolutely

1:29:401:29:44

clear that the behaviour at the time

was absolutely contrary to Oxfam's

1:29:441:29:50

code of conduct.

So would you say

that the use of prostitutes in

1:29:501:29:53

conflict or disaster zones, because

they are the wider sense the

1:29:531:29:58

beneficiaries as we were talking

about earlier would automatically be

1:29:581:30:01

against the contract?

It is implicit

in the code of conduct.

It wasn't at

1:30:011:30:08

the time?

Not in that wording but it

was in the sense that it was

1:30:081:30:13

anything that is exploitative, and

all of these relationships are

1:30:131:30:19

exploitative, we fully accept that.

And that is why we should not have

1:30:191:30:21

accepted the resignation of the

individuals. In two cases we had no

1:30:211:30:26

choice, they literally disappeared.

But we should still have completed

1:30:261:30:29

the hearing and found them culpable

and that is the practice that we now

1:30:291:30:34

have.

Was that another example of

someone misspeaking when they said

1:30:341:30:39

that it wasn't in there because of

civil liberties when the report came

1:30:391:30:43

out and said that prostitution was

not explicitly forbidden in the

1:30:431:30:48

contract was not to offend the

employees civil liberties?

I think

1:30:481:30:54

we have two things there. The code

of conduct has always said

1:30:541:30:58

exploitative relationships are

absolutely credited. The code of

1:30:581:31:05

conduct did not see the use of

prostitutes explicitly was. What we

1:31:051:31:10

should have used that issue of

bringing Oxfam into disrepute, power

1:31:101:31:14

relations, all those other

dimensions, and we could have done

1:31:141:31:17

that without worrying about legal

jurisdictions.

Can I ask you to

1:31:171:31:24

comment on this aspect.

The use of

prostitutes in conditions of poverty

1:31:241:31:32

and helplessness and conflict is

exploitation. It is abuse. And this

1:31:321:31:39

is intolerable in their

organisation. What happened to let

1:31:391:31:44

the country director Galway with

some dignity? That is wrong. It is

1:31:441:31:52

something that would not happen

today in Oxfam and it hurts me that

1:31:521:31:56

the organisation cannot be today

faced with the question about

1:31:561:32:05

whether we put our reputation, our

brand before the lives of people. A

1:32:051:32:10

reputation depends on the

relationships with the people we

1:32:101:32:14

serve and it is not helpful free

abuse the people we serve. And I

1:32:141:32:25

want to be sure that Oxfam is the

organisation, plan of action which I

1:32:251:32:28

have put out is precisely about

that. It is our top priority right

1:32:281:32:34

now. We will open their books to

investigators to tell us what we

1:32:341:32:40

need to do. It is about letting the

people who come in through

1:32:401:32:46

appropriate references. It is about

increasing money for safeguarding

1:32:461:32:50

and making sure that we do this job

properly. Chair and honourable

1:32:501:32:59

members of parliament this

organisation reaches 90 million

1:32:591:33:01

people every year in 90 countries,

most of them women trapped by war

1:33:011:33:06

and disasters. Help us to get this

right in to clean up but to keep

1:33:061:33:13

reaching people who need the British

help.

James has a follow-up

1:33:131:33:18

question.

Said there was a list of

all of the cases in the report. Was

1:33:181:33:25

that the annual report? The only

thing I saw last night was the three

1:33:251:33:28

paragraphs. Was that a different

report?

Now, we have since I believe

1:33:281:33:34

20 is -- 2007 and a summary in our

annual report which was the cases.

1:33:341:33:43

Sorry I thought it was an actual

summary.

The details get reported to

1:33:431:33:49

the relevant authorities so what we

publish is the summary number of the

1:33:491:33:54

cases.

But not a summary of the

cases.

In your statement last week

1:33:541:34:04

used book about extending the review

of the practices of recruitment and

1:34:041:34:13

monitoring and managing those people

who are employed to work in

1:34:131:34:18

challenging environments. Shouldn't

you have had that as part of your

1:34:181:34:29

review before Oxfam was exposed as

being negligent?

We should have

1:34:291:34:33

done. We believed that we had sound

recruitment systems which are very

1:34:331:34:42

occasionally fail. Now recognise

that that is not good enough and

1:34:421:34:47

that what we need is something that

goes right through the culture of

1:34:471:34:52

the whole organisation, which

includes recruitment systems and it

1:34:521:34:56

includes the commitment we have been

making to transparency. We launched

1:34:561:35:05

in November of peace offer that was

intended to help with that the whole

1:35:051:35:09

employment cycle of staff. That work

is underway and we have made a

1:35:091:35:15

commitment to report on it as soon

as it is finished. What he's done in

1:35:151:35:19

the last week is something much

bigger that looks at the different

1:35:191:35:24

strands of work and holds them

together and says is the sufficient?

1:35:241:35:27

And commit to making that public. We

have had too many people whose

1:35:271:35:31

behaviour is unacceptable, who have

been allowed to work and we have got

1:35:311:35:38

to find better ways of making sure

we don't recruit them in the first

1:35:381:35:41

place and indeed that they are

reported to the relevant

1:35:411:35:43

authorities.

And when is that review

going to report?

The first review

1:35:431:35:50

comes to our governing body in

March.

Miss Thompson would you like

1:35:501:35:55

to band on the councils -- would you

like to expand on the council?

1:35:551:36:03

Absolutely. When I arrived us chair

in October I immediately, before

1:36:031:36:08

this happened, commissioned an

external review of governance

1:36:081:36:10

because I think it is a good

practice to have external reviews

1:36:101:36:17

every three years but also because

particularly with the event creation

1:36:171:36:20

of new arrangements with Oxfam

International I thought governance

1:36:201:36:24

needed to be brought up to date.

Just a few weeks later we had the

1:36:241:36:29

initial stories in the Times about

safeguarding Sobhi immediately

1:36:291:36:34

working with the Charity commission

extended that review of governance.

1:36:341:36:37

It is an external review by a former

Charity commission member. We

1:36:371:36:43

extended to include our governance

and safeguarding. I have seen the

1:36:431:36:46

preliminary report on safeguarding,

it is making some big

1:36:461:36:49

recommendations about how we could

improve our governance. It talks

1:36:491:36:53

about the strengths as well as

weaknesses. The preliminary view is

1:36:531:37:00

coming to the council in March for

action.

On that idea of looking at

1:37:001:37:12

the recruitment of staff, I know

that there have been a number of

1:37:121:37:22

reports including for example the

sexual exploitation report, which

1:37:221:37:26

interviews a number of aid workers

about sexual abuse in the aid sector

1:37:261:37:32

over a number of years. But also

Unite the union have raised the

1:37:321:37:41

practices of short-term contracts

often mean that aid workers who are

1:37:411:37:48

the troublemakers or raise issues

are the ones who do not get their

1:37:481:37:54

contract reviewed -- renewed when is

the more established many management

1:37:541:37:57

will often be on permanent

contracts. Is that something that

1:37:571:38:01

you need to urgently look at the use

of short-term contracts may prevent

1:38:011:38:08

people people from sneaking out?

That the humanitarian organisation

1:38:081:38:14

we are committed to achieving speed

and scale when disaster strikes and

1:38:141:38:22

conflict erupts. It is true we have

a challenge of recruiting any people

1:38:221:38:32

to work on an emergency and then

they must have a short contract

1:38:321:38:34

because then they also, the

emergency ends and they have to go

1:38:341:38:39

so short-term contracts have to be

part of emergency work. The issue

1:38:391:38:44

there is about helping people who

are already vetted at least. That is

1:38:441:38:51

why it is so important that

humanitarian workers are also

1:38:511:38:55

certified, the way teachers and

doctors are certified, so that we

1:38:551:39:00

recruit from a pool of already

vetted people when there is an

1:39:001:39:04

emergency. And this is something we

are championing, this is something

1:39:041:39:07

we're putting a lot of...

Sexual

exploitation for example lists how

1:39:071:39:13

junior aid workers are being

sexually assaulted by senior

1:39:131:39:19

management in aid organisation so it

is not just about making sure the

1:39:191:39:23

short-term staff are vetted, and is

about making sure the short-term

1:39:231:39:30

staff are not the victims of some

management failure.

I think you're

1:39:301:39:36

hitting an important issue follows,

and actually also in November we

1:39:361:39:41

started it a review by an external

consultant of Oxfam Great Britain's

1:39:411:39:47

employment practices and how we

handle them and I think you're

1:39:471:39:49

absolutely right to point out that

people on short-term contracts and

1:39:491:39:53

the vulnerability they feel which

exacerbate the power relationship

1:39:531:39:57

which already exists where often

younger women feel under pressure to

1:39:571:40:02

do things for older men. Because of

the power relationship. That report

1:40:021:40:09

is coming to our March board meeting

for discussion and I will make sure

1:40:091:40:16

it covers the issue of short-term

contract because I think that is

1:40:161:40:18

really important.

You mentioned a

number of times that there are legal

1:40:181:40:24

barriers to doing some of this

checking. My understanding is that

1:40:241:40:28

you can use the DS checks for anyone

working with vulnerable people.

1:40:281:40:33

First of all, do you use devious

checking with the barring service,

1:40:331:40:41

what used to be CRB? On all of your

staff that you are sending out to

1:40:411:40:47

country? And secondly what have they

legal challenges of making sure

1:40:471:40:50

you're using those checks and that

you are reporting back to this body

1:40:501:40:56

so that then issues go on file?

If I

answer the question taking us back

1:40:561:41:03

to Haiti, we have seven staff who

are seriously culpable, none of them

1:41:031:41:07

were British. So the issue of

international verification is a real

1:41:071:41:15

challenge. For British staff in

positions of working with honourable

1:41:151:41:24

people, the BS is a central part of

the way that we work and to use the

1:41:241:41:27

example we have extended it steadily

beyond, in the UK are shop managers

1:41:271:41:33

to the supervising volunteers, we

are steadily rolling back out.

Is

1:41:331:41:40

every British person in the field

working that way?

Every British

1:41:401:41:45

person who is in a position of

directly working with vulnerable

1:41:451:41:51

people is someone who I believe

should be checked. The review

1:41:511:41:55

writing afterwards and the issuance

of how we define that. But the real

1:41:551:42:00

issue for us is we need something

that goes beyond the existence of

1:42:001:42:04

that system, as it does with social

workers and teachers. And that is

1:42:041:42:09

what we need -- we might need power

to help us but in the meantime we

1:42:091:42:14

can get our own house better in

order by trying to build this

1:42:141:42:19

humanitarian passport really need a

positive endorsement rather than

1:42:191:42:21

just an negative mark to be

recommended. In some ways we -- in

1:42:211:42:29

some things we're working with

others and in other areas we may

1:42:291:42:32

need greater help.

You alluded that

some other agencies will have been

1:42:321:42:40

cooperative forthcoming. Why would

they not be quarter of an

1:42:401:42:43

forthcoming? Who's to blame in that

lack of cooperation?

I did not say

1:42:431:42:49

that they were not cooperating, what

I wanted to say was that the process

1:42:491:42:54

of moving this was slow and I think

the big issue that was being raised

1:42:541:42:58

is due distinction. That in some

countries some of the offences in

1:42:581:43:05

our global conduct need to go and

how do you then as an employee

1:43:051:43:14

expose them for breaching her code

of conduct? These were the questions

1:43:141:43:22

that different countries have

different jurisdictions and it was

1:43:221:43:25

part, I would not want to blame

anyone, I would just that all of us

1:43:251:43:31

were slow. But now with we have to

fast-track this and we are doing

1:43:311:43:38

exactly that.

The last thing I

wanted to touch on was about the way

1:43:381:43:44

the regulation and reported to the

appropriate authorities of course. A

1:43:441:43:52

number of you mentioned about the

Charity commission being your

1:43:521:43:55

primary regulator. Do we need to

consider setting up a new regulator

1:43:551:43:59

like you have in the educational

institutions, also regularly by

1:43:591:44:04

Ofstead? Would it be your view that

maybe we need to expand and have a

1:44:041:44:10

view of looking at how effective you

are in the doing no harm part? Do we

1:44:101:44:19

need power regulation here in the UK

and how would you see that

1:44:191:44:21

happening?

That is an issue to which

we should give some thought. I would

1:44:211:44:28

say that there would be benefits and

it would give some focus and clearly

1:44:281:44:33

it also might help rebuild trust.

Against that there is a risk of

1:44:331:44:40

multiple regulators that actually

that causes confusion, things fall

1:44:401:44:44

between the cracks everywhere to do

it it would need to be done with

1:44:441:44:51

good debate.

Education charities

manage.

That might be an interesting

1:44:511:44:56

model to look at.

1:44:561:45:03

I asked you early, around reporting

to the Charity Commission.

I have

1:45:031:45:09

been sent a copy of an e-mail from

the Charity Commission to Oxfam in

1:45:091:45:15

2015 in which they say it has been

suggested there have been incidents

1:45:151:45:20

in Oxfam shops. Incidents about

fraud in charity shops but not about

1:45:201:45:24

safeguarding issues. Do you recall

that e-mail from the Charity

1:45:241:45:29

Commission and then what was done in

response to it?

I don't recall that

1:45:291:45:35

e-mail. I haven't seen that e-mail

before. What I have seen is a

1:45:351:45:41

reinforcement of Oxfam's work in

2015 in charity shops to make sure

1:45:411:45:46

not only whether systematic

reporting but there was a very

1:45:461:45:51

systematic approach to training,

vetting, upskilling senior staff and

1:45:511:46:03

systematic reporting was part of

that.

As I mentioned at the

1:46:031:46:07

beginning, we decided in her private

session early that we will be

1:46:071:46:11

conducting a full inquiry into these

matters and to reach there might be

1:46:111:46:16

at a rate that as part of that,

those who took part in the events in

1:46:161:46:26

Haiti in 2011. My summary as part of

today's evidence session, it has

1:46:261:46:31

been striking how much you have

apologised over the last two hours

1:46:311:46:34

which I think partly reflects the

scale of this scandal and therefore

1:46:341:46:38

there was a lot to apologise for

what I do appreciate the tone of the

1:46:381:46:41

evidence you have given today.

Clearly there is a set of issues

1:46:411:46:47

about what happened in 2011 and what

has happened since where Oxfam would

1:46:471:46:51

appear to have put their reputation

ahead of their beneficiaries and

1:46:511:46:55

have all said today that is

something from which you want to

1:46:551:46:57

learn and I welcome that, I welcome

the fact you have said it is about

1:46:571:47:02

deeds, not words, and it is clear

from the evidence we will explore

1:47:021:47:06

this with the other two panels, that

this is a much wider issue across

1:47:061:47:10

the sector, that there is a set of

challenges across the sector and

1:47:101:47:16

that these are not new issues and

the world has known about them for a

1:47:161:47:19

very long time. My closing comment

to you is, you have both got to get

1:47:191:47:24

your house in order and demonstrated

the British people that you're

1:47:241:47:27

getting your house in order, but

thank you for giving this evidence

1:47:271:47:30

today. If I can invite our second

panel.

1:47:301:47:43

There was a lot of ground that we

wanted to cover as the committee

1:48:341:48:38

with the previous panel. My plan at

the moment is to run this second

1:48:381:48:44

panel for probably about 25 minutes

so we would look to be taking

1:48:441:48:48

evidence from DFID at around 1:45pm.

As with our normal practice, we go

1:48:481:48:56

straight to questions -- 12:45pm. In

2002, Save the Children produced a

1:48:561:49:07

report on sexual exploitation of

women and children by aid workers

1:49:071:49:12

and peacekeepers. Save the Children

then published a further report in

1:49:121:49:19

2008, a decade ago, which came to

similar conclusions. Can you be

1:49:191:49:25

confident that Save the Children

staff have not been involved in the

1:49:251:49:27

kind of abuse we have been healing

about at Oxfam?

If I could start by

1:49:271:49:35

saying that I am utterly appalled by

the type of practices that have come

1:49:351:49:39

to light as a result of

investigative journalism, a few

1:49:391:49:43

inquiries, the work of others, both

shocked and appalled. This is an

1:49:431:49:51

issue that has been on our agenda

for a very long time. Both of those

1:49:511:49:56

reports you mentioned highlighted

the role of powerful men as

1:49:561:50:05

gatekeepers to food, to shelter and

two security. -- to security. And

1:50:051:50:14

the concerns of the people who felt

unsafe and unprotected I think what

1:50:141:50:19

has come to light over the past

couple of weeks cautions all of us

1:50:191:50:27

against it. If I sat here and told

you I thought we were doing enough,

1:50:271:50:32

that would be complacency. We are

absolutely not complacent. We had to

1:50:321:50:37

strengthen our systems across all of

our programmes and we are working to

1:50:371:50:40

do that with our colleagues in Save

the Children. We had to strengthen

1:50:401:50:45

our assistance even the UK. My

colleague Steve Reeves is head of

1:50:451:50:50

our safeguarding operation. I've

seen it argued that if you work in a

1:50:501:50:58

difficult and dangerous place, and

you should somehow be subjected to a

1:50:581:51:02

different set of rules, that the

standards should be lower. There is

1:51:021:51:05

only one rule to our organisation

and that is that you treat other

1:51:051:51:12

people as you would expect to be

treated yourself and that is the

1:51:121:51:17

standard all of us have to work

towards.

I welcome the fact you said

1:51:171:51:21

it. Do you think it is a huge

collective failure by the sector, by

1:51:211:51:25

governments, by the UN that you

published this report with the UN

1:51:251:51:29

agency 16 years ago and this was

discussed at the world of

1:51:291:51:37

humanitarian summit in 2016, but it

feels as though it has taken the

1:51:371:51:44

Times and other media outlets to

really focus this attention.

I was

1:51:441:51:50

at the summit and it was widely

discussed and has been in previous

1:51:501:51:55

summits. This is a subject that is

known about. You use the word

1:51:551:52:02

collective failure and I think that

is a very important phrasing because

1:52:021:52:06

all of us as individual agencies

have to get our house in order on a

1:52:061:52:11

no excuses basis. That is my

responsibility as CEO of Save the

1:52:111:52:15

Children in the UK. The problem we

have is that if you tip poison into

1:52:151:52:22

a river, everyone who uses that

river will get affected by it. Even

1:52:221:52:28

the UK, we have very strong

screening procedures because we are

1:52:281:52:32

the children's charity -- we are a

children's charity and as a sector

1:52:321:52:40

we would benefit from legislation

established a it worked as a

1:52:401:52:42

regulated sector that we can't just

apply that in the UK. We need a

1:52:421:52:54

globalisation of the system. It is

because of the volume of people and

1:52:541:52:58

vulnerability of people we work with

that we need that system. In the

1:52:581:53:02

course of my first year of working

at Save the Children, I have had

1:53:021:53:07

cause to visit Somalia twice, Yemen,

northeast Nigeria, and it is very

1:53:071:53:17

difficult to put into words, when

you speak to someone who has been

1:53:171:53:23

uprooted from their home,

traumatised by violence,

1:53:231:53:29

impoverished, a mother who doesn't

know where their next meal of her

1:53:291:53:33

child is coming from, that is

vulnerability and that is why there

1:53:331:53:37

is only one standard we should ever

apply in our sector.

you said last

1:53:371:53:43

week that predatory paedophiles are

particularly attracted to seek out

1:53:431:53:49

this sort of work. Will you

elaborate on that?

The point I was

1:53:491:53:54

making, I'm not sure if I mentioned

predatory paedophiles, I certainly

1:53:541:53:58

mentioned predatory men who insert

themselves into positions of power

1:53:581:54:02

as gatekeepers because for those

people I have just described, the

1:54:021:54:07

person who has access, the person

who can provide you with security,

1:54:071:54:12

that is a person of of great power

and the regulatory system is surely

1:54:121:54:18

to constrain arbitrary power and

protect people from the abuse of

1:54:181:54:22

arbitrary power. It is a consistent

thing in all of the cases you have

1:54:221:54:30

mentioned.

Can you tell us the sort

of process that is followed in Save

1:54:301:54:36

the Children when there is an

allegation of sexual misconduct?

We

1:54:361:54:43

have a single reporting line that

goes straight through to designated

1:54:431:54:46

staff who are trained specifically

to deal with allegations around the

1:54:461:54:49

safety of children and those staff

will get training and supervising on

1:54:491:54:56

a weekly basis for the work that

they do and all concerns allegations

1:54:561:55:03

are reported to statutory agencies

across the UK, even law enforcement

1:55:031:55:10

-- either law enforcement or social

care or the NSPCC if it is difficult

1:55:101:55:15

to identify the child's geographical

location. We then work the special

1:55:151:55:22

agencies on the basis we do not want

to hamper their investigations. We

1:55:221:55:28

have a process where we would to

suspend individuals as soon as we

1:55:281:55:31

were cleared to do so by statutory

agencies, we would await the outcome

1:55:311:55:36

of their investigations. Once we got

the result of those investigations,

1:55:361:55:40

if there is more work we felt we

needed to do to satisfy ourselves,

1:55:401:55:44

the better the outcome, we would

conduct an internal investigation

1:55:441:55:48

but for somebody who might commit an

offence against a child, we would

1:55:481:55:55

take that very seriously.

From the

evidence we've seen about Oxfam,

1:55:551:56:01

there were two issues, one is about

the size of the team that is working

1:56:011:56:04

on safeguarding. The second is about

their access to and how easily they

1:56:041:56:12

were taken by senior people within

the organisation. Are you confident

1:56:121:56:18

you have the resources you need to

deal with these sorts of

1:56:181:56:21

allegations?

I've been in save the

chosen for just over four years. I

1:56:211:56:28

started as a sole member of staff

and they now lead a team of six,

1:56:281:56:31

three of whom are targeted

specifically on overseas and

1:56:311:56:34

humanitarian child safeguarding. I'm

a member of the corporate leadership

1:56:341:56:41

team, so I'm a relatively senior

member of the team in my own right,

1:56:411:56:45

but I report to the executive team.

I meet with them on a biweekly basis

1:56:451:56:52

for our area. Periodically, we have

people like a trustee who I meet.

1:56:521:57:01

how often would you meet the

trustee?

It depends on availability,

1:57:011:57:06

it's every five or six weeks but we

would report back if anything crops

1:57:061:57:12

up that we think is significant and

the trustee should be aware of, we

1:57:121:57:18

would make the call and have a

conversation and our trustees are

1:57:181:57:23

very responsive. I send reports to

the trustee body on a regular basis

1:57:231:57:27

and our audit committee. I find

little criticism with the way in

1:57:271:57:34

which our organisation works from

our perspective. If I have issues

1:57:341:57:42

with senior leaders, they have been

addressed and I don't have any

1:57:421:57:44

complaints about the way in which my

team are treated by senior members.

1:57:441:57:53

to draw the distinction between

predatory males and predatory

1:57:531:57:58

paedophiles, with your work in the

UK context with Save the Children,

1:57:581:58:06

would you realise there is a

propensity for people to apply to

1:58:061:58:13

certain jobs because it gives them

access? And have you got any

1:58:131:58:18

evidence to say that Oxfam is the

tip of the iceberg and that actually

1:58:181:58:21

there predatory paedophiles is

actively seeking work in war-torn

1:58:211:58:30

countries because they can access

prostitution? Prostitution seems

1:58:301:58:43

like paving over it, it is people

who are underage, it is paedophilia.

1:58:431:58:50

Is this systematic?

Is clear over

the course of media revelations that

1:58:501:58:57

sexual abuse of children in the UK

is far more prevalent than ever.

1:58:571:59:00

People might have thought before.

The national crime agency talks

1:59:001:59:05

about one in 35 adult males in the

UK having some form of paedophilic

1:59:051:59:09

tendency. It is research that talks

about 1% of the adult population of

1:59:091:59:17

men having interest in children

sexually. A cause for the most

1:59:171:59:25

vulnerable children should be

operating with the major those

1:59:251:59:27

people will seek out opportunities

to access children and will seek out

1:59:271:59:31

access to children in places where

jurisdictions are weaker, where

1:59:311:59:36

regulations are put and therefore it

is the job of organisations to up

1:59:361:59:39

their game to meet the gap between

regulation in jurisdictions and the

1:59:391:59:46

risk that may be posed to children.

I started my career in the UK system

1:59:461:59:55

with safeguarding, which were many

people may criticise the way it

1:59:551:59:59

operates, it gives a solid framework

to organisations around the way it

1:59:592:00:03

gets its staff, the provision of

local authority designated officers

2:00:032:00:08

and local authorities where

employers are obliged to report

2:00:082:00:11

concerns. When you start working on

a global scale, that framework is

2:00:112:00:15

absent and what we have been doing

over the last two or three years is

2:00:152:00:20

trying essentially to create an

element of that framework in the way

2:00:202:00:23

we do our business. We think there

is a lot of best practice and

2:00:232:00:28

underworld saw our work is about

creating an equivalent of the system

2:00:282:00:33

on a global scale and resetting and

innovating the way we tackle these

2:00:332:00:38

things, it is critical, but there

are people with a sexual interest in

2:00:382:00:44

children who actively seek out the

opportunity to work with children.

2:00:442:00:48

It's a very considerable problem. We

know there are large numbers of

2:00:482:00:51

those people and we know that they

will seek out access into

2:00:512:00:55

organisations that appear to be

weaker and work in places where the

2:00:552:00:58

protection for children appear to be

put.

2:00:582:01:06

One in 35 had paedophilic

tendencies. Are we saying there can

2:01:062:01:12

be more in the development community

for the same reasons? As you would

2:01:122:01:19

expect there to be more than that in

volunteering youth groups or

2:01:192:01:24

applying for roles were vulnerable

available.

Certainly that is a

2:01:242:01:30

figure that the National Crime

Agency has talked about. One in 35

2:01:302:01:33

adult males. They also talk about

50,000 adults in the UK who may be

2:01:332:01:40

accessing children on a regular

basis. We are trying to establish

2:01:402:01:46

the nature of the scale of the risk

to children in the UK. We do know it

2:01:462:01:50

is significant. We know that a

number of people target

2:01:502:01:53

organisations and that the level of

abuse reported, as far as we are

2:01:532:02:04

aware, is even in a developed

context. Five to 7% of child abuse

2:02:042:02:11

will ever be reported at all. That

is in the context where we would

2:02:112:02:14

hope police would be supportive,

social care, health services. We

2:02:142:02:21

then move into jurisdictions where

that appears to be largely absent.

2:02:212:02:26

It becomes even more challenging. I

think it is almost beyond doubt that

2:02:262:02:32

there is more abuse appearing then

we know about. I think the message

2:02:322:02:36

to organisations should be that we

should behave as though this abuse

2:02:362:02:39

is happening, even if we see no

evidence of it, because we know it

2:02:392:02:45

almost certainly is and we should

behave as if it is happening, even

2:02:452:02:48

if we see no direct evidence.

I want to talk about some of the

2:02:482:02:54

proposals you have made to the

Secretary of State. We need to look

2:02:542:02:58

at some of these numbers. There are

clearly more to come out. We can't

2:02:582:03:03

look at the proposals without a

context of the size of the problem.

2:03:032:03:08

I have got a horrible feeling we're

really just scratching the surface

2:03:082:03:11

of this problem. On the initial

proposals you have brought forward,

2:03:112:03:16

what are the key proposals within

that that you think are absolutely

2:03:162:03:19

essential?

We have a number of

proposals. There are some which are

2:03:192:03:29

achievable over the shorter term,

something is slightly longer term.

2:03:292:03:33

Kevin rightly as pointed out the

fact we have a system in the UK

2:03:332:03:36

about how we regulate criminal

records checks. One of the committee

2:03:362:03:42

members asked our colleagues in

Oxfam about that. The regulations

2:03:422:03:48

around access to criminal records

checks in the UK are very complex.

2:03:482:03:51

They are complicated in a of ways.

And they work primarily on the basis

2:03:512:03:58

for how intense and frequent the

contact between children and

2:03:582:04:01

professionals is. And the real

struggle that we would have is that

2:04:012:04:05

we have staff with contact with

children over short periods of time.

2:04:052:04:11

We found the regulatory environment

around DVS checks quite challenging.

2:04:112:04:15

We use the system quite actively. We

spent in excess of £100,000 last

2:04:152:04:20

year. Stipulating that working in an

agency like ours is regulated

2:04:202:04:28

activity, regardless of the level of

access to children, it is always

2:04:282:04:35

regulated activity. The amount of

transactional cost involved in

2:04:352:04:41

trying to assess the level of check

involved individual staff is quite

2:04:412:04:47

astonishing. That would be a

short-term peace we think would be

2:04:472:04:49

relevant. We did work with Interpol

over a couple of years attempting to

2:04:492:04:56

establish a global criminal records

chest -- checking system. We part

2:04:562:05:01

funded a feasibility study to get us

over the line. That stalled at the

2:05:012:05:04

Interpol and in terms of their

willingness to deal with some of the

2:05:042:05:09

administrative and financial aspects

of that. We think those issues could

2:05:092:05:13

be overcome relatively simply.

If I could just add very briefly to

2:05:132:05:23

that, I've heard the argument over

the past few days that the

2:05:232:05:28

humanitarian passport system that we

and other agencies have advocated,

2:05:282:05:31

that it would be terribly

constipated and difficult to put in

2:05:312:05:35

operation because we don't actually

have a global multinational

2:05:352:05:38

framework for doing it. My short

answer to that problem is create

2:05:382:05:42

one. This is clearly a confiscated

problem. But the consequences of not

2:05:422:05:50

dealing with it, in human terms, are

utterly appalling, leaving aside the

2:05:502:05:54

reputational effects. What I would

say just in addition to the point

2:05:542:06:01

that Steve has made is every year we

reach around 20 to 22 million

2:06:012:06:11

children, providing life-saving

attritional interventions, health

2:06:112:06:13

support, educational support. If we

get this one thing wrong, this one

2:06:132:06:21

area of regulator except the wrong,

the whole house of cards comes down.

2:06:212:06:26

-- this one area of regulator

activity. I have a thousand people

2:06:262:06:32

are coming to our office in

Faringdon every day, dedicated

2:06:322:06:35

professionals who want us to be out

there on the front line working with

2:06:352:06:38

children. This is a condition for

making that possible.

2:06:382:06:46

A couple of quick things. We are

talking about vulnerable women and

2:06:462:06:49

girls, mainly. Is there any evidence

of young boys being abused as well?

2:06:492:06:56

And are they being abused by men or

women? You talked about having been

2:06:562:07:06

in the organisation for a few years,

not Ridgers length of time. How many

2:07:062:07:10

women have come forward to say they

have been abused in that period of

2:07:102:07:16

time? And are the women mainly

people who are the vulnerable women

2:07:162:07:21

you are trying to help, or are they

within the staff body, who are also

2:07:212:07:25

being abused by predatory men?

The

first part, globally, it's pretty

2:07:252:07:36

clear that girls and young women are

most frequently victims of sexual

2:07:362:07:40

avoidance. Di spoke -- violence. We

do see evidence of boys and young

2:07:402:07:49

men being exploited in the same way.

As far as we can tell from the

2:07:492:07:52

research available, this is abuse

largely perpetrated by men, although

2:07:522:07:58

we shouldn't discount the

possibility that somebody engaging

2:07:582:08:04

in this behaviour is largely

perpetrated by men. We do see

2:08:042:08:10

evidence of boys being harmed. There

is some evidence about crossover

2:08:102:08:13

offending, the importance of gender

for victims -- of victims for a

2:08:132:08:18

certain kind of offenders. I don't

think that is terribly significant

2:08:182:08:22

in terms of how an agency might

respond. In terms of people coming

2:08:222:08:29

forward, my role, very clearly, in

the organisation is about the

2:08:292:08:35

protection of children. My role is

that children are positive

2:08:352:08:42

experiences of the organisation. I

don't have direct responsibility for

2:08:422:08:46

the management of allegations that

may come to light about adults

2:08:462:08:50

harming other adults. That would be

a leadership responsibility for

2:08:502:08:51

Kevin.

Do you want to answer that specific

2:08:512:08:56

issue?

What I can tell you, I don't

want to give you incorrect numbers,

2:08:562:09:04

so this is very tentative. We're

reporting to Dfid on Monday a full

2:09:042:09:11

breakdown of our figures. On the

child safeguarding challenges, we

2:09:112:09:17

have 193 cases in 2016,

comprehensive data. Around 53 of

2:09:172:09:27

those were taken to full

investigation. Around 20 of those

2:09:272:09:30

cases, the files were handed over to

the police. And 11 people were

2:09:302:09:34

dismissed. The thing that is always

difficult about these exercises is

2:09:342:09:40

to know whether you are cutting the

tip of the iceberg or you are

2:09:402:09:44

catching the iceberg itself. --

catching the tip of the iceberg. The

2:09:442:09:50

system we have to build is about

creating a culture in every single

2:09:502:09:54

one of our offices, where people

feel safe enough to come forward and

2:09:542:09:57

report on these matters.

What is the

split, would you say, between

2:09:572:10:04

vulnerable women and girls in

different countries, compared with

2:10:042:10:09

women working for your organisation

who are being abused, or there are

2:10:092:10:15

many were trying to abuse them

within your system?

We also have

2:10:152:10:22

investigations on sexual harassment.

I'm not just talking about Save the

2:10:222:10:26

Children UK. This is as part of Save

the Children International. I know

2:10:262:10:30

this is a bit confusing. It is the

programme delivery platform, which

2:10:302:10:33

we share with Save the Children from

the United States, Scandinavia Omid

2:10:332:10:41

Germany, Australia and others. In

those investigations last year we

2:10:412:10:47

had 35 cases reported. Again, please

take these numbers as tentative. We

2:10:472:10:52

had 35 cases reported. From memory,

19 of them resulted in staff

2:10:522:10:59

dismissals. I don't remember the

number of files handed over to

2:10:592:11:06

police. It gives you some sense.

Thank you. Some questions about the

2:11:062:11:16

suggestions you have made. In terms

of regulated activity, if we brought

2:11:162:11:23

that in, how quick could

organisations such as yourselves

2:11:232:11:28

then implemented to ensure that all

your workers were checked and you

2:11:282:11:32

were abiding by the regulated

activity requirements under DVS?

2:11:322:11:39

From our perspective that would

happen very promptly. We criminal

2:11:392:11:43

records check every single member of

staff in our organisation. Regulated

2:11:432:11:50

activity would provide a single

level.

Would you be able to

2:11:502:12:00

implement the enhanced level within

a month if we introduced it?

2:12:002:12:05

Relatively short order, yes. You

said there was some financial

2:12:052:12:12

stalling. Do you know what kind of

order of money that Interpol... Have

2:12:122:12:21

you heard any kind of figure?

There

have been some conversations about

2:12:212:12:29

how the systems might be financed.

That may be a significant technology

2:12:292:12:37

spend. The real crux for me came at

some of the stakeholder meetings.

2:12:372:12:44

From our perspective we spend well

in excess of £100,000 a year on

2:12:442:12:48

checking her starve. But the system

only works if a small Ugandan

2:12:482:12:53

orphanage can also afford that

check. So actually just simply

2:12:532:12:59

dividing that cost by the people you

think might use it is not a workable

2:12:592:13:03

way to ensure that the very

smallest...

If the British gum gave

2:13:032:13:13

a donation for ten years to run that

system, would that be realistic? We

2:13:132:13:20

need to take a lead.

Certainly. We

had some set up costs that we may be

2:13:202:13:27

able to provide. Interpol may be

able to provide a figure quite

2:13:272:13:32

rapidly at this point.

If I may,

there are two parts to this. There

2:13:322:13:40

is a part that the UK government can

lead and drive, which I think is

2:13:402:13:44

what you are getting at. There is

also a broader international

2:13:442:13:49

leadership role. We need some sort

of international framework. The UK

2:13:492:13:56

government, I believe, could play a

critical role in helping establish

2:13:562:13:58

that. There are a number of vehicles

that could be considered. For

2:13:582:14:05

example, as an administrative

entity. We put a proposal for

2:14:052:14:12

discussion into Dfid towards the end

of last year. That was on the idea

2:14:122:14:16

of a centre of global excellence on

safeguarding.

2:14:162:14:25

Properly constructed, that centres

could potentially help to oversee a

2:14:252:14:29

local database but more critically,

it could insert people into

2:14:292:14:34

difficult areas because if you think

of the crisis, he has 800,000

2:14:342:14:41

people, a movement of people bigger

than the city of Newcastle from one

2:14:412:14:45

place to another in the space of a

couple of months. What happens when

2:14:452:14:51

that crisis erupts is we sent in our

water people, the people providing

2:14:512:15:00

education, and there is no one of

the moment is really surging in a

2:15:002:15:05

safeguarding team that can ensure

there is a proper level of

2:15:052:15:07

protection. We would have to pool

our resources as a sector to do this

2:15:072:15:14

effectively and if pulling is what

it takes, that's what we need to do

2:15:142:15:22

-- pooling.

What you think the wider

implications for the aids sector

2:15:222:15:27

following these scandals? -- aid

sector.

The journalists who brought

2:15:272:15:41

these stories to light have turned

the light on horrible stuff which we

2:15:412:15:44

as a sector have to take

responsibility for as have to take

2:15:442:15:48

responsibility for fixing. Our first

order of priority is we need to

2:15:482:15:53

recognise that this is not the

occasional bad apple we're dealing

2:15:532:15:57

with, this is a structural and

systemic problem that we have to

2:15:572:16:01

deal with through proper

integration. There is a wider set of

2:16:012:16:08

damage to the trust that UK public

put in us to deliver on incredibly

2:16:082:16:15

jealous population in the UK to some

of the most vulnerable people in the

2:16:152:16:20

world and trust is our most precious

commodity. If that goes, and ability

2:16:202:16:25

to play the linking global be

damaged. There is an issue of trust

2:16:252:16:29

with the sector and the Department

for International Development. All

2:16:292:16:33

of these things have to be the belt.

One of the things that concerns me

2:16:332:16:39

is that I have seen the argument

surfacing that this is now all

2:16:392:16:47

about... And I think this is an

opportunistic, misplaced way of

2:16:472:16:52

looking at the problem. This is a

real problem, it is systemic and

2:16:522:16:59

large-scale and we have to fix it by

duty age -- but UK aid is the most

2:16:592:17:07

effective and accountable aid in the

world. It makes enormous difference

2:17:072:17:11

to children all around the world

working with us and other agencies.

2:17:112:17:16

We cannot afford to allow this issue

to pollute the wider discussion

2:17:162:17:23

about the role of the UK in aid

leadership.

As a follow-up, it took

2:17:232:17:31

external reporters to largely

exposes this scandal. -- expose this

2:17:312:17:42

scandal. Do you think the aid sector

as a whole is capable of bringing

2:17:422:17:46

its house into order?

If I didn't

believe that, I wouldn't be working

2:17:462:17:53

in the sector. Our organisation is

staffed by incredibly professional

2:17:532:18:02

and committed people. We can resolve

this problem. I know there is a view

2:18:022:18:10

that the sector is being given a

hard time by the media and that in

2:18:102:18:14

some way we are victims. It is only

one victim in this and that is the

2:18:142:18:19

people who have at their lives

shattered I some of these practices.

2:18:192:18:24

The other victims of the people who

lose trust that prevents us doing

2:18:242:18:29

what we need to do so I am totally

convinced that we can fix it and I'm

2:18:292:18:34

totally committed to Save the

Children playing a leadership role

2:18:342:18:41

in that.

I was concerned when you

said "We could do with legislation",

2:18:412:18:48

it sounded like abdication of

responsibility but you have gone

2:18:482:18:54

back on that. But you could you talk

about... Clearly at the UN are going

2:18:542:19:05

to play a big role and clearly DFID

should stop giving money to any

2:19:052:19:09

organisation that doesn't move in

the direction we wanted to, but

2:19:092:19:13

surely the answer is never to wait

for legislation. What can Save the

2:19:132:19:18

Children do now, immediately, and

move on to protect yourself from the

2:19:182:19:24

critique that you're abdicating

responsibility by saying it is

2:19:242:19:28

Government, it is legislation, it is

too complex, it is something for the

2:19:282:19:32

United Nations? God help us if we're

going to have to wait for the United

2:19:322:19:36

Nations!

That couple to -- that

cavalry might take some time to

2:19:362:19:43

arrive. Can I be clear, I did not

say waiting for legislation. What we

2:19:432:19:48

need to do as a sector is to act now

with urgency. I believe there is a

2:19:482:19:59

great responsibility on the major

NGOs in this country to come

2:19:592:20:06

together and start framing practical

solutions. The legislation we have

2:20:062:20:13

mentioned about regulated employment

would help. It would strengthen one

2:20:132:20:18

part of the system but there is

plenty of other things we can do,

2:20:182:20:22

both to get our own house is in

order. One thing we're doing at Save

2:20:222:20:29

the Children UK with our

international partners in

2:20:292:20:31

strengthening our safeguarding

systems across the world. We want a

2:20:312:20:37

focal point in the 125 countries

that we operate in to Save the

2:20:372:20:45

Children International. That has to

be strengthened. We need to come up

2:20:452:20:48

with ideas. That is our job. We

obviously really appreciate the idea

2:20:482:20:55

is that you are generating, the

inquiry that you mentioned, but we

2:20:552:21:00

can't sit around and wait for summit

else to come and solve this problem.

2:21:002:21:04

This is our problem. We need to

generate the ideas for solving it

2:21:042:21:07

and I think they're are good ideas

out there. We have tried some of

2:21:072:21:11

them. The challenge is to move very

quickly and to build the coalitions

2:21:112:21:14

that we need to and Bond is a

critical part of that.

Thank you,

2:21:142:21:24

please feel free to stay to listen

to the final panel.

2:21:242:21:37

Thank you for joining us and for

your patience, we are running behind

2:22:032:22:07

schedule. Our usual practice, we

invite you to introduce yourself

2:22:072:22:12

when you first answer a question.

Nearly two years ago, I went to the

2:22:122:22:20

wild humanitarian summit in Istanbul

where I learned from a committee, a

2:22:202:22:26

panel that was talking, that sexual

abuse was happening by NGOs by UN

2:22:262:22:34

peacekeeping forces as well, which

is another issue, but it was common

2:22:342:22:41

knowledge but nobody really knew how

to deal with it, so I came back and

2:22:412:22:44

wrote to the Secretary of State at

the time saying that DFID is

2:22:442:22:49

respected around the world. We

should be leading this, an

2:22:492:22:53

international register should be

setup for people who in the sector.

2:22:532:22:59

I got a letter back from the civil

servants saying that actually, this

2:22:592:23:07

is just too difficult. It was in the

too difficult to do box and we

2:23:072:23:12

couldn't tackle it. We had a similar

letter back after our chairman wrote

2:23:122:23:19

on the previous committee basically

saying the same sort of thing. We

2:23:192:23:24

have heard from Oxfam and Save the

Children. Save the Children appear

2:23:242:23:29

to be doing this, Oxfam say they're

going to do it. Why do you think

2:23:292:23:33

that we cannot do this? Have a

global register for aid workers? It

2:23:332:23:39

is clearly absolutely necessary. If

the money we spend is going to

2:23:392:23:44

protect vulnerable women and girls

in incredibly difficult

2:23:442:23:49

circumstances, I am sure this is

happening in the Rohingya refugee

2:23:492:24:00

camps and other places around the

world. Why do you believe DFID

2:24:002:24:03

cannot start a global register and

hold its other people can do the

2:24:032:24:07

same sort of service as the

safeguarding services do currently?

2:24:072:24:15

It is a no-brainer, we have to do

it.

My name is Matthew Rycroft, I am

2:24:152:24:26

the permanent secretary at DFID.

I

understand you are new to the job so

2:24:262:24:32

it is slightly unfair but you bring

a fresh view to this so I think it

2:24:322:24:35

is fair to ask you these questions.

All of your questions are there and

2:24:352:24:40

I look forward to answering all of

them today and in future. Let me

2:24:402:24:43

begin by saying how shocking these

issues are and these incidents have

2:24:432:24:48

been and let me agree with you that

this is an issue that the United

2:24:482:24:52

Kingdom must lead on in terms of

this response and that is what the

2:24:522:24:56

Secretary of State for International

Development is determined to do. She

2:24:562:25:00

has written to all of the UK-based

charities to make sure and to tell

2:25:002:25:05

us what their systems are to put in

place all of their safeguarding. We

2:25:052:25:10

are doing something similar with all

of our partners around the world. We

2:25:102:25:16

are going to be working with the

United Nations, who have had a

2:25:162:25:21

long-running history in relation to

allegations of sexual exploitation

2:25:212:25:24

and abuse in relation to

peacekeeping and we need to learn

2:25:242:25:28

from that. We need to work with the

private sector and other Government

2:25:282:25:32

departments around the British

Government for development. This is

2:25:322:25:39

a huge issue for the sector and one

of the things the Secretary of State

2:25:392:25:45

has announced is a summit on the 5th

of March with the charity sector to

2:25:452:25:48

look at the way ahead and I think

central to that summit will be an

2:25:482:25:52

analysis of the issue which you

brought back from the eastern bill

2:25:522:25:57

world humanitarian summit and which

we very much hope the sector itself

2:25:572:26:05

will put forward. Nothing is too

difficult any more, even if it ever

2:26:052:26:09

was. This is a moment where we need

to be looking with fresh eyes and

2:26:092:26:13

also with experienced eyes. Everyone

coming together, whether the adding

2:26:132:26:21

Government, the private sector, an

organisation, all of us, to make

2:26:212:26:24

sure we root out this evil and that

something good can come from the

2:26:242:26:28

crisis, which has been a breach of

trust for the people of Haiti and

2:26:282:26:31

countries like that but also for the

people of the United Kingdom who

2:26:312:26:36

give so generously to charities like

Oxfam.

I think the current Secretary

2:26:362:26:44

of State has done a fantastic job

given she is new to it and she has

2:26:442:26:49

had to go out there and say some

pretty tough things that I think she

2:26:492:26:52

has done a good job on that but what

I have been disappointed about is

2:26:522:26:55

the previous Secretary of State did

raise his issues with the Department

2:26:552:27:00

and she was asked not to raise them,

not to bring them in speeches but

2:27:002:27:06

she continued to do so anyway which

I think was good that she did,

2:27:062:27:11

particularly in terms of the UN. We

know that peacekeepers have been

2:27:112:27:15

raping women in vulnerable

situations. You said you had been

2:27:152:27:21

working with them. What exactly are

you going to do to be able to stop

2:27:212:27:25

women being raped and abused and

children in very vulnerable

2:27:252:27:30

situations? Everybody knows it is

happening, it seems, so it appears,

2:27:302:27:41

"oh, that's OK then," but there must

be a system because the world is a

2:27:412:27:49

much smaller place now. We need to

work world to safeguard these very

2:27:492:27:52

vulnerable people so what is DFID

Ashley going to do to stop the

2:27:522:27:57

sexual abuse through the UN?

The

Secretary of State is leading this

2:27:572:28:04

agenda and her predecessor did a

good job of raising this issue and I

2:28:042:28:08

remember from my previous job at the

United Nations as the British

2:28:082:28:11

ambassador in New York that it was a

big theme of the UN General Assembly

2:28:112:28:16

last September and that was because

of the previous Secretary of State

2:28:162:28:19

for International Development. The

United Nations has long had a huge

2:28:192:28:26

problem with sexual exploitation and

abuse amongst peacekeepers and the

2:28:262:28:31

UK has been helping to lead the way

in response to that so first of all,

2:28:312:28:35

the UK has doubled our contribution

to UN peacekeeping in the last

2:28:352:28:38

couple of years and we make sure

that every single one of the British

2:28:382:28:42

peacekeepers who goes to joint UN

missions has proper training on how

2:28:422:28:47

to prevent sexual exploitation and

abuse. We also offer training to

2:28:472:28:52

other contingents from other

countries who perhaps have less of a

2:28:522:28:55

tradition in this area than we

ourselves do and we are working with

2:28:552:28:58

the United Nations itself to make

sure that one part of the family of

2:28:582:29:04

organisations is able to spread best

practice to another part. One thing

2:29:042:29:08

about the UN is it such a large

bureaucracy that even if there is

2:29:082:29:14

good bureaucracy, that might not be

spreading to other parts of the UN

2:29:142:29:17

so what we were seeking to do with

the previous Secretary of State was

2:29:172:29:21

to bring together all the different

parts to the native nations to the

2:29:212:29:24

best.

2:29:242:29:33

We have to stop this abuse of the

most vulnerable people in the world.

2:29:332:29:40

Have Dfid completed a review?

Yes,

the work has been completed. The

2:29:402:29:52

assurances have been met and we have

gone beyond them. We will make a

2:29:522:29:56

copy available to you right away.

Excellent. I do think this is really

2:29:562:30:02

urgent. It has been going on for

years. What I fail to understand is,

2:30:022:30:10

it is, I believe, a minority of

people in the aid sector but we need

2:30:102:30:14

to root those out. What is wrong

with those minority of men that they

2:30:142:30:18

cannot keep their trousers done up?

What is wrong with these men? Do

2:30:182:30:28

they need mental health help? If

they do, let's get them some. They

2:30:282:30:34

should not be doing this. And nobody

can believe it is right.

I am not

2:30:342:30:39

going to seek to justify, explain

her excuse that behaviour. It is

2:30:392:30:45

totally inexcusable. I am not going

to go down that route. We are

2:30:452:30:50

determined to use this crisis, and

it is a crisis for the aid sector,

2:30:502:30:54

for reasons we have been hearing

about. We are determined to use this

2:30:542:30:58

crisis to get the whole of the

sector into a better shape, to root

2:30:582:31:02

out this evil wherever it occurs and

two draw on the whole of the sector

2:31:022:31:07

and beyond to get the ideas on how

best to do that.

I am encouraged to

2:31:072:31:12

hear that. I hope you move very

quickly.

2:31:122:31:17

I want to turn specifically to the

events in Haiti in 2011. What did

2:31:172:31:23

Dfid know about these events?

I am

going to ask my colleagues, Gerrard

2:31:232:31:31

and Beverley. Oxfam did bring to

David's attention at the time the

2:31:312:31:36

factor was an investigation into

misconduct by some members of staff.

2:31:362:31:39

Dfid. They wrote three letters, the

last giving us a summary of the

2:31:392:31:49

outcome of the investigation. At no

point was either the scale or the

2:31:492:31:53

severity of the allegations made

clear to our predecessors.

2:31:532:32:00

Since last Monday I have been

fighting singularly fur Dfid's

2:32:002:32:11

safeguarding unit. The second letter

Oxfam Road told us that the country

2:32:112:32:14

director had resigned and the

investigation would be concluded.

2:32:142:32:19

The third level reported on the

outcomes of that investigation,

2:32:192:32:22

saying there had been a breach of

the code of conduct of Oxfam. None

2:32:222:32:27

of this involved beneficiaries of

the misuse of any funds. We were

2:32:272:32:30

discussing earlier on the nature of

the meaning of the word beneficiary.

2:32:302:32:35

We understood it to be the people of

Haiti that the -- Oxfam were

2:32:352:32:42

fundraising for.

In July 2015,

Oxfam's former head of global

2:32:422:32:52

safeguarding contacted Justine

Greening and informed how examples

2:32:522:32:57

of sexual misconduct in Oxfam, what

was done as a result of this and how

2:32:572:33:02

was it carried out?

At this point we

can find no record of that contact.

2:33:022:33:07

We have been looking since we

received that allegation.

You think

2:33:072:33:12

that is potentially a false

allegation?

No, there is no record

2:33:122:33:16

of that.

My understanding is a

member of Parliament then wrote to

2:33:162:33:23

the Home Secretary.

We were asked

about her approach to child

2:33:232:33:29

protection policies, protecting

children between 14 and 17. In that

2:33:292:33:34

letter Justine Greening responded to

Andrew Smith, reporting how we were

2:33:342:33:38

managing our accountable grants in

terms of the absolute requirement,

2:33:382:33:42

if people see allegations and

accusations, to tell Dfid

2:33:422:33:51

immediately. That is in line with

good practice.

Priti Patel has also

2:33:512:33:59

claimed the department knew about

this. What do you have to say about

2:33:592:34:02

this?

I want to be clear about two

different things. At no point did

2:34:022:34:07

she say there were particular

members of staff who were aware of

2:34:072:34:13

particular instances of sexual

exploitation. What she has said is

2:34:132:34:17

that the department did not respond

as quickly as she wanted to push the

2:34:172:34:27

issue up the international agenda. I

know that in the end of the

2:34:272:34:30

department did do that. Her concern

was it took too much pushing to get

2:34:302:34:33

to that point. She has not said that

individual incidents of sexual

2:34:332:34:38

exploitation and abuse were known

about by Dfid.

2:34:382:34:46

Obviously we are taking evidence in

terms of the safeguarding our lack

2:34:462:34:49

of safeguarding by non-governmental

organisations. Can one of you

2:34:492:34:54

outline what safeguarding procedures

are adopted for Dfid staff here and

2:34:542:34:59

in the field?

Let me make a start. First of all,

2:34:592:35:06

the general point is to make years

we hold ourselves at least two as

2:35:062:35:12

high a standard as our partners, and

we are explicit in doing so. We have

2:35:122:35:15

made sure that all staff are aware

of the whistle-blowing procedures

2:35:152:35:20

and so on. We need to distinguish

between UK-based members of Dfid

2:35:202:35:25

staff and staff employed locally in

individual countries around the

2:35:252:35:30

world. The former are civil

servants. They are recruited the

2:35:302:35:36

same way that other civil servants

are recruited, with the same sort of

2:35:362:35:38

abetting. -- vetting. Local staff

are recruited in an individual

2:35:382:35:47

country and are recruited according

to procedures and the law. There is

2:35:472:35:52

always some formal background check.

The precise measure of that object

2:35:522:35:56

does vary from country to country.

And contract is? The evidence from

2:35:562:36:02

Oxfam earlier gave some evidence of

someone who had left who had been

2:36:022:36:08

employed by a contract. What sort of

due diligence would there be with a

2:36:082:36:13

Dfid contractor?

We have just

started a new contract with

2:36:132:36:18

Palladium. In response, Palladium

are very aware of this and have

2:36:182:36:24

procedures in place at the moment.

They do due diligence on their

2:36:242:36:29

staff. The issue is it is as far as

you can go giving the nationality of

2:36:292:36:35

the person you are looking at. They

do have that in place. They are now

2:36:352:36:40

reviewing and looking again at all

of their processes and plan to act

2:36:402:36:44

soon with an idea of what further

steps we can take. They do have

2:36:442:36:48

measures in place, quite strong

measures.

They are your contract

2:36:482:36:52

with regard to humanitarian? Those

contract may come into contact with

2:36:522:37:00

vulnerable people, including

children. Is there a similar process

2:37:002:37:05

for other contractors?

We have just

had a very big process of looking

2:37:052:37:08

how we work with our contractors. We

have a new supply review. Part of

2:37:082:37:18

that has a code of conduct Ferraro

-- how are suppliers act.

2:37:182:37:30

The number of times you have said

depending on national circumstances

2:37:302:37:33

of the nationality of the people.

I'm struggling to quite understand

2:37:332:37:37

that. Here in Parliament I employ an

Australian national. He had to come

2:37:372:37:43

with a certificate from the

Australian police and provided to me

2:37:432:37:47

and the Parliamentary authorities.

They then still did a check with the

2:37:472:37:52

British security services. They

checked back in Australia. That

2:37:522:37:56

seemed to be no problem. I don't

understand why... May be

2:37:562:38:03

misinterpreting what you are saying,

but we are not having a standard

2:38:032:38:06

system that we are opposing --

imposing, maybe even imposing VAT on

2:38:062:38:17

any NGO we have a refund.

All I

meant was that when we employ

2:38:172:38:23

someone in country X, in addition to

what we're doing globally, we need

2:38:232:38:26

to make sure we are implying that

person within the law of the

2:38:262:38:30

country. Ice it is an addition

rather taking away? Certainly there

2:38:302:38:35

is no taking way.

If possible, could

someone from the committee, long on

2:38:352:38:43

the 5th of March when everybody is

getting together at a summit to join

2:38:432:38:49

this up? It strikes me this is a

longer term issue, it is quite

2:38:492:38:52

complex. We would be keen to hear

what you are saying and be part of

2:38:522:38:59

that enquiry.

We would welcome that. The 5th of

2:38:592:39:04

March is an important point. You are

hearing about some of the proposals

2:39:042:39:08

from Save the Children. We have been

gathering over the last while other

2:39:082:39:12

policy proposals we want to test.

That is only a start. We will be

2:39:122:39:17

working with a broader range of

organisations after the 5th of March

2:39:172:39:21

to further test of those ideas, to

potentially see whether we could

2:39:212:39:27

test them in reality through some of

our departments and look towards a

2:39:272:39:31

larger conference possibly later in

the year where we can bring a larger

2:39:312:39:34

group of people together.

I just want to develop something.

2:39:342:39:44

The UN seems to me is not fit for

purpose because it is not stopping

2:39:442:39:49

what is going on. We should be

leaving that as well. What plans do

2:39:492:39:52

you have following this summit for

working with the UN, to get all of

2:39:522:39:58

those organisations together, to

make sure that they actually put in

2:39:582:40:03

proper safeguarding procedures and

proper training, and not just leave

2:40:032:40:06

it to the UK? I have heard about

this ever since I have been involved

2:40:062:40:12

with this. Since I came into

Parliament. That was 2010. It hasn't

2:40:122:40:16

gone away. It is not going away.

What are you doing to lead the world

2:40:162:40:24

by holding the UN to account?

The

Secretary of State for International

2:40:242:40:29

Development has made it clear we are

not going to wait for the UN anybody

2:40:292:40:32

else. We were lead from the front.

We are reaching out to others to

2:40:322:40:37

encourage them to join us in that

fight because we know that the more

2:40:372:40:42

numerous we can be, the more

effective we can be. But we're not

2:40:422:40:46

waiting for anybody to catch up. In

addition to the point about

2:40:462:40:50

peacekeeping, we also have in place,

thanks to the previous Secretary of

2:40:502:40:54

State and subsequent work, a series

of performance agreements with the

2:40:542:40:58

different part of the United

Nations, which permit us to withhold

2:40:582:41:03

funding from any parts of the United

Nations that do not match our

2:41:032:41:07

requirements, either in terms of

their reform or of the results, and

2:41:072:41:13

results can mean either the

development results or if you like

2:41:132:41:18

the internal processes in relation

to sexual exploitation or abuse or

2:41:182:41:24

other priorities. We have already

announced, and we discussed this, we

2:41:242:41:28

have already made it absolutely

clear that those parts of

2:41:282:41:35

international organisations who wish

to continue to receive UK government

2:41:352:41:38

funding need to make sure that they

not only have zero tolerance for

2:41:382:41:43

sexual exportation abuse, but they

can prove it.

That would include the

2:41:432:41:47

World Bank? We have different

performance agreements with the

2:41:472:41:52

World Bank.

I would have to check if

the precise wording is the same.

2:41:522:41:57

Thank you.

Can I return to the issue we

2:41:572:42:03

discussed with Save the Children,

these reports published in 2002

2:42:032:42:10

between the UNHCR and Save the

Children, and the second in 2008.

2:42:102:42:16

What, if anything, did Dfid do about

those reports at the time?

2:42:162:42:23

I think firstly, and Mr Watkins said

earlier, I think we would

2:42:232:42:28

acknowledge that systemwide there

was a collective failure to respond

2:42:282:42:31

that scale to those messages,

including from 2007. We are all

2:42:312:42:38

taking responsibility to improve in

this area. There is no doubt about

2:42:382:42:40

that. When the committee look at

some of the measures we have put in

2:42:402:42:46

place within Dfid, you will see a

further strengthening. From early on

2:42:462:42:50

we now have in our accountable...

People have the facility to tell us

2:42:502:43:00

immediately when they have concerns.

That is really important. We are

2:43:002:43:03

doing broader work. The Secretary of

State was in Stockholm last week as

2:43:032:43:09

a founder member of the global

partnership for violence against

2:43:092:43:13

children. What you are seeing is a

broadening movement that has found

2:43:132:43:18

purchase. The global partnership was

only established two years ago. The

2:43:182:43:22

wake-up call that we had been

hearing earlier on is resonating

2:43:222:43:25

more broadly.

Why do you detect -- think it talks

2:43:252:43:32

the times journalist to give us this

wake-up call? The department has

2:43:322:43:38

known about the Oxfam allegations

for some time. Why has it taken a

2:43:382:43:43

newspaper for this to give it the

wake-up call you have described?

2:43:432:43:49

First of all, I would like to pay

tribute to the journalism that has

2:43:492:43:53

led to this wake-up call. There is a

much-needed wake-up call. I wouldn't

2:43:532:44:00

speculate on the psychology involved

over the intervening years. I think

2:44:002:44:03

it is fair to say that this whole

issue of safeguarding has, for a

2:44:032:44:09

long, been a priority for Dfid and

for the sector. But it has been a

2:44:092:44:14

priority amongst others. What we are

now doing is honing in on it, giving

2:44:142:44:21

of laser focus and making sure that

we pull in ideas from wherever we

2:44:212:44:26

can in order to root out this evil.

2:44:262:44:37

And the it is a huge collective

failure on all our cards.

-- it is a

2:44:372:44:46

huge collective failure on all our

parts.

2:44:462:44:57

The Secretary of State put Oxfam on

a pretty tight deadline saying that

2:44:582:45:01

by the end of last week, they should

show precisely how they would handle

2:45:012:45:07

any future allegations around

safeguarding. Have they done that?

2:45:072:45:13

Yes, they have. Oxfam wrote to the

Secretary of State late last

2:45:132:45:17

Thursday night. The Secretary of

State sent to feed a man's. -- sent

2:45:172:45:24

three demands. The first was

handling allegations, the second was

2:45:242:45:29

that they would cooperate completely

and fully with the Haiti authorities

2:45:292:45:34

and the third was that they ritual

leadership across this case. For the

2:45:342:45:38

Haitian authorities, I met the

ambassador yesterday to discuss this

2:45:382:45:45

case and make sure that corporation

was indeed happening and we have

2:45:452:45:48

also been talking to Foreign Office

colleagues and the ambassador has

2:45:482:45:53

been to see the ambassador in Haiti

to make sure Oxfam are doing the

2:45:532:45:59

right thing. Oxfam also confirmed

they reported these individuals to

2:45:592:46:07

the national authorities. On making

clear how they would handle

2:46:072:46:10

forthcoming allegations, Mr Golding

mentioned earlier, they handed over

2:46:102:46:14

their current caseload of life

cases. They told us they are now

2:46:142:46:19

employing an independent firm to

come and oversee and to run the

2:46:192:46:23

whistle-blowing and we will be

looking closely at their performance

2:46:232:46:26

over the next period of time. We

welcome the opening of the Charity

2:46:262:46:31

Commission inquiry which was shed

further evidence on the handling of

2:46:312:46:33

the incidents in Haiti in 2011, the

governance of Oxfam going forward

2:46:332:46:39

and hope we despond. -- how we

respond.

I take it you're satisfied

2:46:392:46:49

that Oxfam has, in terms of what

they have been asked to do, have

2:46:492:46:54

responded sufficiently.

There are

two sets of requirements, the Oxfam

2:46:542:46:59

specific requirements which had a

deadline of last week, then there

2:46:592:47:04

are the sector wide requirements.

They are one of the UK-based

2:47:042:47:09

charities that has deceived a letter

from the Secretary of State asking

2:47:092:47:13

them to set out in detail to give us

assurance that they have processes

2:47:132:47:16

in place on safeguarding. Clearly

they have themselves, following

2:47:162:47:25

discussions with the Secretary of

State, withdrawn from bidding for

2:47:252:47:29

any new UK Government funding until

they are satisfied they can meet the

2:47:292:47:35

high standards we expect of our

partners and of course the Secretary

2:47:352:47:39

of State for International

Development will be looking very

2:47:392:47:40

seriously in order to make that

judgment of the sort of moral

2:47:402:47:44

leadership they are able to show.

That is a judgment which she will be

2:47:442:47:50

making in the future.

The Secretary

of State, as you say, said that she

2:47:502:47:57

is prepared to review funding if any

agency falls below the standards

2:47:572:48:05

that are required. There are others

who have suggested that actually,

2:48:052:48:14

funding from Oxfam should be

withdrawn. If it was going to be

2:48:142:48:19

withdrawn, what do you think the

impact of that would be on

2:48:192:48:25

beneficiaries around the world?

That

is the sort of judgment which we

2:48:252:48:27

will be making in the future in

relation to future funding

2:48:272:48:33

decisions. We need to wait to get

that evidence to make that judgment.

2:48:332:48:39

It's going to be a complex judgment

to make and it will be based on

2:48:392:48:45

actions in the future as well as an

assessment of the recent past.

I

2:48:452:48:52

understand the issues that would be

brought in making a judgment about

2:48:522:48:56

whether or not that was the right

thing to do, but presumably already,

2:48:562:49:03

the department has got some

assessment of what would happen

2:49:032:49:10

around the world of funding to Oxfam

was withdrawn.

We do, that is part

2:49:102:49:17

of the assessment we will be making

in the future.

You don't have any

2:49:172:49:22

thoughts on that?

It's a very

complex question to answer and it is

2:49:222:49:28

going to be specific to individual

countries in some parts of the world

2:49:282:49:33

there will be a variety of partners

that DFID could choose to work with

2:49:332:49:38

and in others it will be harder to

find an alternative to an existing

2:49:382:49:43

partner so it is difficult to give a

global answer to that hypothetical

2:49:432:49:48

question at the moment.

I should

declare an interest because I went

2:49:482:49:54

with Oxfam in 2015 and sort the work

they do in the refugee camp with

2:49:542:50:01

Syrian refugees. Were there to be a

decision to withdraw funding,

2:50:012:50:04

presumably you would only do that

when another partner was put in

2:50:042:50:07

place so that the water and

sanitation currently provided by

2:50:072:50:10

Oxfam is still provided.

Oxfam and a

big part of water and sanitation, we

2:50:102:50:18

would need to take it into account.

We would need to do that contingency

2:50:182:50:24

planning.

Wouldn't be fair to say

that they would be a major haul

2:50:242:50:37

potentially in a lot of really

important development efforts around

2:50:372:50:41

the world, particularly water and

sanitation?

We would do our best to

2:50:412:50:49

make sure there were other partners

we could operate through. It is

2:50:492:50:53

something we're looking at number of

ways. There are also new projects

2:50:532:50:58

which would be fine because we were

just take bids from different

2:50:582:51:02

partners so on existing partners, we

would like to mitigate impact on

2:51:022:51:05

beneficiaries.

Am I right in

thinking you are now the head of the

2:51:052:51:17

safeguarding unit that the Secretary

of State promised to be established?

2:51:172:51:21

If that is the case can I just ask,

why do you think it took so long for

2:51:212:51:28

such a unit to be set up, seeing

that a number of colleagues and the

2:51:282:51:33

committee as a whole has been

raising these issues for quite some

2:51:332:51:37

time?

It is not that DFID hasn't got

about safeguarding over the past

2:51:372:51:46

period of time. As you take forward

the broader inquiry, you will see

2:51:462:51:54

this. For example, in December 2017,

we issued as smart data

2:51:542:51:58

safeguarding, the product of a lot

of work and how best to do

2:51:582:52:03

safeguarding. We have safeguarding

written into some of our procedures

2:52:032:52:07

and policies will be looked the

capability of organisations to have

2:52:072:52:12

safeguarding policies but also

operate them so until this point,

2:52:122:52:14

safeguarding was the responsibility

across the organisation. What we

2:52:142:52:19

have decided to do in response to

this crisis is draw that together to

2:52:192:52:23

categorise further action. The

responsibility of the safeguarding

2:52:232:52:27

unit is not to replace safeguarding.

It is to set and to raise standards

2:52:272:52:36

and safeguarding right across the

international sector including DFID

2:52:362:52:40

and to make sure we are responding

to that responsibility we have

2:52:402:52:45

discussed early on, the work that

out in -- our internal audits does

2:52:452:52:52

and I will advance team does, this

is about consolidating and rising to

2:52:522:52:57

the challenge that we know we all

face.

We all know that mainstreaming

2:52:572:53:05

is a code for not doing it if you

don't have some leading in the

2:53:052:53:09

centre, to having someone in the

centre and mainstreaming the work

2:53:092:53:14

very good, but just so I'm clear,

who will you report to? Directly to

2:53:142:53:22

the Secretary of State? Just in

terms of what level it sat.

You will

2:53:222:53:26

understand the Secretary of State

announced the creation of this unit

2:53:262:53:30

and we have been working that

currently. We will review those

2:53:302:53:40

arrangements as we consolidate and

consider the further functions of

2:53:402:53:44

the safeguarding unit within DFID.

She did say it was reporting

2:53:442:53:51

directly to her and Jimmy so there

is that joule chain -- dual. We put

2:53:512:54:03

together in one unit, 16 people to

provide that central impetus but I

2:54:032:54:09

wouldn't want anyone to have the

impression that there was no focus

2:54:092:54:17

on safeguarding before that grip,

but this is a new phase.

So you

2:54:172:54:25

report to three?

He directly to the

Secretary of State and have

2:54:252:54:34

conversations directly and has done

so most days, so that's a bit of

2:54:342:54:37

civil service issue. On any issues

like this, he has a direct line if

2:54:372:54:46

necessary to the Secretary of State.

From the conversations we have had

2:54:462:54:50

with Save the Children, they were

talking about some of the

2:54:502:54:53

discussions we have had with

Interpol struggling to get political

2:54:532:54:58

capital. Has the department had any

discussions with Interpol about

2:54:582:55:03

trying to oil those wheels? If so,

what were the discussions and if

2:55:032:55:13

not, is very commitment to go to

Interpol and even offers a cost of

2:55:132:55:16

what this needs to be to make sure

those wheels or oiled?

Yes, we will

2:55:162:55:23

work with them in the run-up to the

summit on the 5th of March and

2:55:232:55:28

beyond and we will be looking

imaginatively at whatever ideas come

2:55:282:55:33

out of that. As for the first

question, I don't know.

I don't

2:55:332:55:43

believe we have. The Secretary of

State met the national crime agency

2:55:432:55:48

recently and that is all part of the

process and an important

2:55:482:55:52

functionality.

In terms of this idea

of regulated profession whatever the

2:55:522:56:02

term is, so that aid agencies can

automatically... Is that a

2:56:022:56:10

discussion that is happening with

the relevant department that we need

2:56:102:56:12

to bring that statutory instrument

in and have there been any

2:56:122:56:17

consideration in the Department of

just unilaterally establishing a

2:56:172:56:20

register? Not just British aid

workers, but of all aid workers that

2:56:202:56:28

get in touch of British money or

NGOs or anything and extending our

2:56:282:56:32

jurisdiction to the Globe until

another agency comes forward and

2:56:322:56:40

takes that please? Has there been

consideration about whether that

2:56:402:56:44

would be feasible?

As I said in

answer to the question earlier, yes.

2:56:442:56:50

Nothing is any longer to difficult.

-- too difficult. This issue was

2:56:502:57:01

deemed to be difficult when she

first raised it, difficult to

2:57:012:57:05

implement and with some concerns

about lack of accountability and so

2:57:052:57:08

on. I think now on the changed

circumstances, we are looking at it

2:57:082:57:13

and seeing whether the time is now

right and we will be using the

2:57:132:57:18

summit on the 5th of March to see if

the time is right to launch it.

2:57:182:57:24

It'll be useful to share that with

the committee so that we can see the

2:57:242:57:27

thought process, even if it doesn't

go ahead, because that be useful for

2:57:272:57:31

us.

Can I criticise you for

something you said. You said if the

2:57:312:57:36

time is right. The time is right. It

is not a case of if, we have to do

2:57:362:57:43

it, we cannot let this happen again.

I am saying yes to that. The time is

2:57:432:57:53

long overdue, it needs to be done

now.

Save the Children recently

2:57:532:58:01

wrote to you in terms of giving the

number of proposals on safeguarding.

2:58:012:58:08

Will you be implementing these

proposals or do you have any

2:58:082:58:12

timescale on them?

Out of the first

part of the answer then hand over to

2:58:122:58:19

my colleague. As with previous

suggestions in this area, we want to

2:58:192:58:23

use the summit on the 5th of March

as an opportunity to gather all of

2:58:232:58:26

us together to hear from those with

most front-line experience on these

2:58:262:58:31

issues including Save the Children,

including Oxfam, including others in

2:58:312:58:34

the sector and there might be other

ideas out there as well so we added

2:58:342:58:38

the state pulling those ideas and

seeing which ones are most likely to

2:58:382:58:44

really resolve this issue -- pooling

this idea.

Unless colleagues have

2:58:442:58:55

other questions, we need to finish

with a closing question. This has

2:58:552:58:59

been a massive news story of the

last ten days, raising massively

2:58:592:59:03

serious concerns and as we have dug

further into it, we see these issues

2:59:032:59:07

that have been known about in one

form or another a very long period

2:59:072:59:11

of time. Do you recognise the damage

that this has done to the reputation

2:59:112:59:16

of the aid sector and what is DFID's

strategy to address that?

2:59:162:59:26

Yes this is a huge crisis for the

aid sector, I welcome the enquiry

2:59:262:59:32

announced today, as a contribution

to turning this crisis around and

2:59:322:59:38

learning from it, rooting out the

evil which exists within the sector

2:59:382:59:40

and through those improvements to

grab an opportunity and to create

2:59:402:59:48

something better as a legacy of this

crisis and the awful things which

2:59:482:59:53

have happened to people in Haiti and

elsewhere. The reputation of the

2:59:533:00:00

sector, the reputation of aid, the

reputation of the 0.7% commitment

3:00:003:00:03

have been pulled into the mix but as

the previous witness was saying,

3:00:033:00:11

it's very important to consider why

the British government, why all the

3:00:113:00:15

main parties have committed to spend

0.7% of our economy each year on

3:00:153:00:21

international aid and to do a better

job than we have done in the past

3:00:213:00:27

between us of explaining to the

British people why that's a good

3:00:273:00:30

thing to do for our own country, for

our own prosperity and security and

3:00:303:00:35

our own influence around the world.

All those things are threatened by

3:00:353:00:39

this crisis but we are determined to

act with you and the charities and

3:00:393:00:43

the private sector to turn that

around.

Thank you for that. Let me

3:00:433:00:48

conclude this hearing by repeating

what we said earlier this morning as

3:00:483:00:54

a committee, we will be holding a

formal enquiry into the issues we

3:00:543:01:00

have addressed this morning and

which will be looking for that

3:01:003:01:03

culpability for the past but also

importantly on how we can improve in

3:01:033:01:07

the future and we will consider

further witnesses in due course.

3:01:073:01:12

Thank you.

3:01:123:01:14

Live coverage of the International Development Committee's session on sexual exploitation in the aid sector, with evidence from Mark Goldring, chief executive officer and Caroline Thomson, chair of trustees, Oxfam, Kevin Watkins, chief executive officer, Save the Children, Steve Reeves, director of child safeguarding, Save the Children UK, Matthew Rycroft CBE, permanent secretary, Gerard Howe, head of inclusive societies and Beverley Warmington, director of CHASE, Department for International Development.


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