20/11/2016 Sunday Politics East Midlands


Andrew Neil and Marie Ashby hear from the candidates for the Ukip leadership and look ahead to the chancellor's Autumn Statement.

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Morning folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics.


Theresa May says she'll deliver on Brexit but does that mean leaving


the EU's Single Market and the Customs Union?


Tory MPs campaign for a commitment from the Prime


The Chancellor pledges just over a billion pounds worth of spending


on Britain's roads but is that it or will there be


And in the East Midlands: 18 days in the job.


The jobs bust taking workers from struggling areas to find


Plus, the Derbyshire firm sdlling rice to the Chinese.


in London: Is the battle for Richmond Park based on the skies? Or


is it about a bigger conflict in Europe?


And with me - as always - and, no, these three aren't doing


the Mannequin challenge - it's our dynamic, demonstrative


dazzling political panel - Helen Lewis, Isabel Oakeshott


and Tom Newton Dunn they'll also be tweeting throughout the programme.


First this morning - Theresa May has said


"Brexit means Brexit" - but can the Prime Minister -


who was on the Remain side of argument during the referendum


Well, Leave-supporting Tory MPs are re-launching


the "European Research Group" this morning to keep Mrs May's feet


Are you worried that you cannot trust Theresa May until payment to


deliver full Brexit was Magellan like I totally trust Theresa May,


100% behind her. She has displayed a massive amount of commitment to


making a success of Brexit for the country.


We don't know that yet, because nothing has happened. Why, then


have you formed a pressure group? We were fed up with the negativity


coming out around Brexit. I feel positive about the opportunities we


face, and we are a group to provide suggestions. Who do you have in mind


when you talk about negativity the Chancellor? No, from the Lib Dems,


for example, from Labour MPs. This is a pressure group for leaving


membership of the single market and customs union, correct? That is what


we are proposing. It has a purpose other than just to combat


negativity. When it comes to membership of the single market and


the customs union, can you tell us what Government policy is towards


both or either? Rightly, the Government hasn't made the position


clear, and I think that is the right approach, because we don't want to


review our negotiating hand. What we're saying... I'm not asking what


you are saying. Can you tell us what Government policy is towards


membership of these institutions? The Government wants to make sure


British businesses have the right to trade with EU partners, to forge new


trade deals with the rest of the world. We hope to Reza may speak at


Mansion house this week. -- we had Theresa May speak at Mansion house


this week. She has been clear, saying it was not a binary choice.


And she's right. Let's run that tape, because I want to pick up on


what she did say. This is what she had to say about the customs union


at Prime Minister's Question Time. On the whole question of the customs


union, trading relationships that we have with the European Union and


other parts of the world once we have left the European Union, we are


preparing carefully for the formal negotiations. We are preparing


carefully for the formal negotiations. We want to ensure we


have the best possible trading deal with the EU once we have left. Do


you know what she means when she says being in the customs union is


not a binary choice? I think she's right when she says that. At the


moment, and you know this, as long as we are in the customs union, we


cannot set our own tariffs or rules, cannot have a free trade agreement


with the US or China. We need to leave a customs union to do that.


Binary means either you are in or you are out, self which is it? We


still want to trade with the EU and I think we can have a free trade


agreement with the EU. That is a separate matter, and it has to do


with the single market. What about the customs union? We need to leave


the customs union. We do it and properly. That is how to get the


most out of this opportunity. Summit is a binary choice? The Prime


Minister is right when she says it's not a binary choice. Both can't be


right. We can leave the customs union, get their benefits, and have


a free trade agreement with zero tariffs with the EU. So it is a


binary choice an either be stale really. Yellow like I am saying the


Prime Minister is right when she says it is not a binary choice. -- I


am saying the Prime Minister is right. We need clarity. Youth had


said -- you have said it is a binary choice. We need to leave the


constraints of the customs union. It pushes up prices. The EU is not


securing the right trade deals, and if we want to make the most of it,


we need to get out there and get some deals going. Do you accept that


if we remain in the customs union, we cannot do our own free-trade


deals? Yellow right 100%. That is why we have to leave. -- 100%. Do


you accept that if we leave the customs union but stay with


substantial access, I don't say membership, but substantial access


to the single market, that goods going from this country to the


single market because we're no longer in the union will be subject


to complicated rules of origin regulations, which could cost


business ?13 billion a year? I would like to see a free-trade agreement


between the UK and the EU. Look at the Canadian deal. I give you that,


but if we're not in the customs union, things that we bring in on


our own tariffs once we've left we can't just export again willy-nilly


to the EU. They will demand to see rules of origin. Norway has to do


that at the moment and it is highly complicated expensive. I think if we


agree a particular arrangement as part of this agreement with the EU,


we can reach an agreement on that which sets a lower standard, which


sets a different level of tariffs, which protects some of our


industries. Let's suppose we have pretty much free trade with the EU


but we are out of the customs union, and let's suppose that the European


Union has a 20% tariff on Japanese whisky and we decide to have a %


tariff - what then happens to the whisky that comes into Britain and


goes on to the EU? The EU will not let that in. That will be part of


the negotiation. I think there is a huge benefit for external operators.


Every bottle of Japanese whisky they will have to work out the rules


of origin. There have been studies that show there is a potential for


50% increase in global product if we leave. We're losing the benefits of


free trade. I understand, I am asking for your particular view


Thank you for that. Is it not surprising Mr Hannan could


not bring himself to say we would leave the customs union? It is


messy. The reason there is this new group of Tory MPs signing up to a


campaign to make sure we get a genuine Brexit is because there is


this vacuum. It is being filled with all sorts of briefing from the other


side. There is a real risk in the minds of Brexit supporting MPs that


the remaining side are going to try to hijack the process, not only


through the Supreme Court action, which I think most Brexit MPs seem


to accept the appeal will fail, but further down the line, through


amendments to the great repeal bill. This is a pressure group to try to


hold the Prime Minister to account. There is plenty of pressure on the


Prime Minister effectively to stay in the single market and the customs


union, and if you do both of these things, de facto, you have stayed in


the EU. She is in a difficult position because there is no good


faith assumption about what Theresa May wants because she was a


Remainer. There is all this talk about a transitional arrangement,


but she can't sell that as someone who voted to remain. The way Isabel


has characterised it is interesting. There is a betrayal narrative.


Everyone is looking to say that she has betrayed the true Brexit. Since


the Government cannot give a clear indication of what it once in terms


of the customs union, which sets external tariffs, or the single


market, which is the free movement of people, capital, goods and


services, others are filling this vacuum. Right. The reasons they


can't do this are, first, they don't know if they can get it or not. We


saw this with the renegotiation the last Prime Minister. What are they


hoping to get? The world on a stick, to get cake and eat it. You go into


a negotiation saying, let's see what we can get in total. Are they going


to ask the membership of the single market? Yellow I think they will ask


for a free trade agreement involving everything. You can demand what you


want. The question is, do they stand a cat's chance in hell of getting


it? They don't know. Welcome back. We will be back, believe me. It is


150 day since we found out the UK had voted to leave the EU, but as we


have heard, remain and leave campaigners continue to battle about


what type of relationship we should have with the EU after exit.


Leave campaigners say that leaving the EU


also means quitting the


Single Market, the internal European trading bloc that includes free


movement of goods, services, capital and people.


They point to evidence that leading Leave supporting


politicians ruled out staying in the Single Market during


Andrea Leadsom, for example, said it would almost


certainly be the case that the UK would come out of the Single Market.


When asked for a yes or no on whether the UK should stay


"No, we should be outside the Single Market."


And Boris Johnson agreed with his erstwhile ally, saying, "Michael


Gove was absolutely right to say the UK


They've released a video of clips of Leave campaigners speaking before


the referendum apparently saying that the UK should stay in the


Nigel Farage, for example, once said that on leaving


the EU we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area


Owen Paterson, the former Environment Secretary,


once made the startling statement that only a madman would actually


And Matthew Elliott, the Vote Leave chief, said


that the Norwegian option would be initially attractive for some


But do these quotes create an accurate picture of what


To cast some light on where these quotes came from we're


joined by James McGrory, director of Open Britain


Welcome to the Sunday Politics. . Your video has statements from leave


campaigners hinting they want to stay in the single market. How many


were made during the referendum campaign? I don't know. Not one was


made during the referendum campaign. Indeed, only two of the 12


statements were recorded after Royal assent had been given to the


referendum. Only one was made this year before the referendum.


Throughout the campaign am a leave campaigners lauded the Norwegian


model. Norway are in the single market but not in the EU. They went


out of their way not to be pinned down on a specific trading


arrangement they want to see in the future with Europe, when the


Treasury model the different models it was the EEA or a free-trade


agreement. I understand. Does it not undermine your case that none of the


12 statements on your video were made during the campaign itself


when people were giving really serious thought to such matters The


Leave campaign weren't giving serious thought to such matters


They did not set out the future trading model they wanted to see.


But you cannot produce a single video with somebody saying we should


stay in the single market during the campaign. Daniel Hanna had talked


about the Norwegian model as a future option. One comment from


Nigel Farage dates back to 2009 when we didn't even know if we would


have a referendum or not. Does it not stretch credibility to go back


to the time when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister? The overall point


stands. It is not supposed to be an exhaustive list of the options.


Daniel Hannan, described as the intellectual godfather of the Leave


movement is saying that no one is talking about threatening our place


in the signal market. I think it's legitimate to point out the Leave


campaign never came forward with a credible argument. We have


highlighted some of the quotes you picked out from leave campaigners


over time. Do you think you have fully encapsulated their arguments


accurately? I don't think in a 2nd video you can talk about the full


thing. -- a 90-2nd video. Some of them want to seek a free-trade


agreement, some to default on to World Trade Organisation tariffs.


There is a range of opinion in the Leave campaign. Let's listen to the


clip you used on Owen Paterson first.


Only a madman would actually leave the market.


Only a madman would actually leave the market.


It's not the EU which is


a political organisation delivering the prosperity and buying our goods.


It's the market, it's the members of the market and we'll carry on


I mean, are we really suggesting that the


economy in the world is not going to come to come


to a satisfactory trading arrangement with the EU?


Are we going to be like Sudan and North


It is ludicrous this idea that we are going to leap off a


What he said when he said only a madman would leave Europe, was that


we would continue to trade, we would continue to have access. Any country


in the world can have access. What the Leave campaign suggested is our


trade would continue uninterrupted, they are still at it today, David


Davis used the phrase, uninterrupted, from the dispatch box


recently. You misrepresented him by saying only a madman would leave the


Single Market and stopped it there, because he goes onto say that of


course we want Leave in the sense of continuing to have access. I don't


think he was about axis, he is talking


about membership. He doesn't use the word membership at all. He talks


about we are going to carry on trading with them, we will not leap


off, we will carry on trading. Anybody can trade with the EU, it's


the terms on which you trade that is important and leave campaigners and


Patterson is an example of this saying we can trade as we do now,


the government saying we can trade without bureaucratic impediments and


tariff free. The viewers will make up their mind. Let's listen to the


views of Matthew Elliott, the Chief Executive of Vote Leave.


When it comes to the Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that


it might be initially attractive for some business people.


So you then cut him off there but this is what he went on to say in


the same clip, let's listen to that. When it comes to the Norwegian


option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initially attractive


for some business people. But then again for voters


who are increasingly concerned about migration in the EU,


they will be very concerned that it allows free movement


of people to continue. Again, you have misrepresented him.


He said the Norwegian model has attractions but there are real


problems if it involves free movement of people, which it does.


But you cut that bit out. I challenge anyone to represent them


accurately because they took such a range of opinions. I don't know what


we are supposed to do. You are misrepresenting them. He is saying


the Norwegian option is attractive to business, I understand why. It


might not be attractive for voters. But then he said if it allowed free


movement of people it could be an issue. You took that out. You are


saying this is a definitive position. I'm suggesting you are


distorting it. This is what you had Mr Farage say.


On D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area


This is what he then went on to say in that same clip that you didn t


run. There is absolutely


nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving


the on D+1 we'll find ourselves part


of the European Economic Area and we should use our


membership of the EEA as a holding position from which


we can negotiate as the European Union's biggest export


market in the world, as good a deal, my goodness me,


if Switzerland can have one we So there again, he says not that we


should stay in the Single Market as a member, but that we stay in the EA


as a transition until we negotiate something. -- EEA. This whole clip


is online, how would you get away with this distortion? It is not a


distortion, the whole point is to point out they do not have a


definitive position, he is arguing for membership of the Single Market,


for a transitional period. For the transition. How long does that go


on, what does he want to then achieve? Not very quickly but he


does not say we should stay members of the Single Market and you didn't


let people see what he went on to say, you gave the impression he


wanted to stay in the one it. It would not be a video then, it would


be a seven-week long lecture. They took so many positions, and the idea


now that they were clear with people that we should definitely leave the


Single Market I think is fictitious. You are trying to make out they all


had one position which was to remain members of the one it. You see the


full clips that is not what they are saying. We are trying to point out


there is no mandate to leave the Single Market. The idea the Leave


campaign spoke with unanimity and clarity of purpose and throughout


the whole campaign said we will definitely leave the Single Market


is not true. That is the whole point of the media. We showed in the


montage in the video just before we came on, we said that then Prime


Minister, the then Chancellor, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, being


categorical that if you vote to leave the EU, you vote to leave


membership of the Single Market What bit of that didn't you


understand? Under duress they occasionally said they wanted to


leave. Some of them wanted to leave the Single Market. All of the other


promises they made, whether ?35 million for the NHS, whether a VAT


cut on fuel, points-based system. You do not have a single quote of


any of these members saying they want to be a member. Daniel Hannan


has said consistently that Norway are a part of the Single Market You


spend the referendum campaign criticising for Rim misrepresenting


and misrepresenting and lying and many thought they did. Having seen


this many will conclude that you are the biggest liars. I think it is


perfectly reasonable to point out that the Leave campaign did not have


a clear position on our future trading relationship with Europe.


That is all this video does. It doesn't say we definitely have to


stay in the Single Market, it just says they do have a mandate to drag


us out of our biggest trading partner.


Now people have seen the full quotes in context our viewers will make up


their mind. Thank you. Now - voting closes next week


in the the Ukip leadership contest. The second Ukip leadership contest


this year after the party's first female leader - Diane James -


stood down from the role Since then the party's lurched from


farce to fiasco. It's a world gripped by uncertainty,


split into factions. Yes, 2, because they're


having their second Watch as the alpha male,


the Ukip leader at Nigel Watch as the alpha male,


the Ukip leader Nigel Farage, hands power to the new alpha


female Diane James. The European Parliament


in Strasbourg, October. Another leading light and possible


future leader, the MEP Steven Wolfe,


has been laid low after an alleged tussle with a colleague


during a meeting. A few days later he is


out of hospital and I will be withdrawing my


application to become I'm actually withdrawing


myself from Ukip. You're resigning from the party


I'm resigning with immediate effect. And this week a leaked document


suggested the party improperly spent EU funds on political


campaigning in the UK. Another headache for whoever takes


over the leadership of the pack One contender is Suzanne Evans,


a former Tory councillor and was briefly suspended for


disloyalty. Also standing, Paul Nuttall,


an MEP from Liverpool who has been by Farage's side


as his deputy for six years. There's another big beast


in the Ukip leadership contest, and I'm told


that today he can be spotted He's John Rees-Evans,


a businessman and adventurer who is offering members the chance


to propose policies via a website We've got really dedicated


passionate supporters who feel like they're not really


being listened to and are not even Typically what happens


is they just basically sit there until six months before


a General Election when they are contacted and asked to go out


and leaflet and canvas. Even at branch level people feel


there is not an adequate flow of communication


up-and-down the party. Are you not going to take part in


any hustings? He left a hustings saying


the contest was an establishment coronation and has


made colourful comments in the past. He's in favour of the death penalty


for crimes like paedophilia. I think there is a clear


will amongst the offences should be dealt with


decisively. But again, on an issue like that,


that is something that Our members are not


going to agree with me on everything and I don't believe that


I would have any authority to have the say and determine


the future What method would you use


for the death penalty? Again, that is something that could


be determined by suggestions made So you'd have like an online


poll about whether you use the electric chair,


or lethal injection? For example, arguments would be made


in favour of This is such a small aspect


of what I'm standing for. Essentially, in mainstream media


they try to by focusing on pretty irrelevant


details. This is one vote that


the membership would have. What I'm actually trying to do


in this party is to revolutionise the democratic


process in the UK, and that's really what your viewers should


be concentrating on. With him at the helm he reckons Ukip


would win at Meanwhile, in New York,


on a visit to Trump Tower, Nigel Farage admired the plumage


of the President-elect, a man he has described as


a silverback gorilla, a friendship that's been condemned by some


in this leadership contest. There are also elections


to the party's National Executive Committee, a body


that's been roundly criticised by And we're joined now by two


of the candidates in the Ukip leadership election -


Suzanne Evans and Paul Nuttall. We are going to kick off by giving


each of them 30 seconds to lay out their case as to why they would be


the less leader starting with Suzanne Evans.


Ukip is at its best when it is scaring the political establishment,


forcing it to address those problems it would rather ignore. But it


really change people's lives for the better and fast, we need to win


seats and elections right across the country. To win at the ballot box we


need to attract more women, more ethnic


minorities, and more of those Labour voters who no longer recognise their


party. I know how to do that. Ukip under my


leadership will be the same page about it, common-sense, radical


party it has always been, just even more successful. Thank you, Suzanne


Evans, Paul Nuttall. I'm standing on a platform of unity and experience.


I believe the party must come together if it is to survive and


prosper. I believe I'm the best candidate to ensure that happens, I


am not part of any faction in the party, and beyond that I have done


every single job within the party, whether that is as head of policy,


whether that is Party Chairman, deputy leader for Nigel for the past


six years. I believe Ukip has great opportunities in Labour


constituencies where we can move in and become the Patriot invoice of


working people, and beyond that we have to ensure the government's feet


are held to the fire on Brexit and we get real Brexit, not a


mealy-mouthed version. How will you get a grip on this? People have to


realise that the cause is bigger than any personality, we have to get


together in a room and sort out not just a spokespeople role but roles


within the organisation, Party Chairman, party secretary, and


whatnot. But as I say, Ukip must unite, we are on 13% in the opinion


polls, the future is bright, there are open goals but Ukip must be on


the pitch to score them. He says he's the only one that can get a


grip on this party. I disagree, I have a huge amount of experience in


the party as well and also a background that I think means I can


help bring people together. I have always said nothing breeds unity


faster than success and under my leadership we will be successful.


There is concern about the future of our National Executive Committee


going forward. Mr Farage called it the lowest grade of people I have


ever met, do you agree? I think he must have been having a bad day I


think we need to make it more accountable to the membership, more


open, more democratic. What would you do with the National Executive


Committee? I have been calling for the National Executive Committee to


be elected reasonably since 201 giving the members better


communication lines and make it far more transparent. Would you have a


clear out of the office? I wouldn't, I think the chairman of the party,


Paul Upton, the interim chairman, is doing a good job and the only person


who has come out of the summer with his reputation enhanced. Let me show


you a picture we have all seen of your current leader, Mr Farage, with


President-elect Donald Trump. Paul Nuttall, you criticise Mr Farage's


decision to appear at rallies during the American election and called Mr


Trump appalling. Do you stick by that? I wouldn't have voted for him.


I made it clear. Do you still think he's appalling now that he is


President-elect? Some of the things he said were appalling during the


campaign that he said. But he would be good for Britain, trade,


pro-Brexit and he is an Anglo file and the first thing he did was put


the bust of Winston Churchill back in the Oval Office. You, Suzanne


Evans, called Mr Trump one of the weakest candidates the US has had. I


said the same about Hillary Clinton. They cannot both be the weakest The


better candidate on either side would have beaten the other, that is


quite clear. Do you stand by that, or are you glad that your leader Mr


Farage has strong ties to him? I am, why wouldn't I be? For Ukip to have


that direct connection, it can be only good for a party. Were you not


out of step and Mr Farage is in step because it looks like your vote is


according to polling I have seemed like Mr Trump and his policies? Let


me finish. If I am the leader of Ukip I will not be involving myself


in foreign elections, I will because in trading here in this country


ensuring we get Ukip people elected to council chambers and get seats in


2020. The other thing your leader has in


common with Mr Trump is that he rather admires Vladimir Putin. Do


you? I don't. If you look at Putin's record, he has invaded Ukraine and


Georgia. I am absolutely not a fan. I think that Vladimir Putin is


pretty much a nasty man, but beyond that, I believe that in the Middle


East, he is generally getting it right in many areas. We need to


bring the conflict... Bombing civilians? We need to bring the


conflict to an end as fast as possible. The British and American


line before Donald Trump is to support rebels, including one is


affiliated to Al-Qaeda, to the Taliban. We need to clear these


people out and ensure that Syria becomes stable. This controversial


breaking point poster from during the referendum campaign. Mr Farage


unveiled it, there he is standing in front of it. You can bend it - do


you still? Yes, I think it was the wrong poster at the wrong time. I


was involved with the vote Leave campaign as well as Ukip's campaign,


and I felt strongly that those concerned about immigration were


already going to vote to leave because it was a fundamental truth


that unless we left the European Union we couldn't control


immigration. I thought it was about approaching those soft wavering


voters who weren't sure. I don't think I said it was racist, but it


was about sovereignty and trade and so forth. That was where we needed


to go. I was concerned it might put off some of those wavering voters.


People may well say, it was part of the winning campaign. It was Ukip


shock and all, which is what you stand for and what makes you


different. I said I would know how that I said I would not have gone


for that person and I thought it was wrong to do it just a week out from


the referendum. However, I believe it released legitimate concerns


with a deluge of people making their way from the Middle East and Africa


into the European continent. Where is the low hanging fruit for you,


particularly in England? Is it Labour or Conservative voters? I


want to hang onto the Conservative voters we have got but I think the


low hanging fruit is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn won't sing the national


anthem, Emily Thornbury despises the English flag. Diane Abbott thinks


anyone talking about immigration is racist. Not to mention John


McDonnell's feelings about the IRA. Labour has ceased to be a party for


working people and I think Ukip is absolutely going to be that party.


It is clear, I absolutely concur with everything Suzanne has said. I


first voiced this back in 2008 that I believe Ukip has a fantastic


opportunity in working-class communities, and everyone laughed at


me. It is clear now that we resonate with working people, and you have


seen that in the Brexit result. Would you bring back the death


penalty? It wouldn't be Ukip policy. Absolutely not. Would you give more


money to the NHS and how would your fanatic? You like it is important to


fund it adequately, and it hasn t been to date. We promised in our


manifesto that we would give more money. Where does the money come


from? It is about tackling health tourism. I think the NHS is being


taken for a ride at the moment. That may be right, but where does the


money come from? It is about scaling back management in the NHS, because


that has burgeoned beyond control. They are spending far more money on


management. Where would you save money? We need to look at HS two,


foreign aid. Now we have Brexit and we will be saving on the membership


fee. We need to cut back on management, as Suzanne says. It


cannot be right that 51% of people who work for the NHS in England are


not clinically qualified. The NHS needs money now - where would you


get it? From HS two. That is capital spending spread over a long period.


Where will you get the money now? OK, another one. We spent ?25


million every day on foreign aid to countries who sometimes are richer


than ourselves. Through the Barnett formula. You would take money away


from Scotland? Yes, I think they get far too much. PG tips or Earl Grey?


Colegrave. PG tips. Strictly come dancing or X Factor? Neither.


Strictly. I would love to be on it one day. There you go. Thank you


It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.


We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now


Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.


In the East Midlands: What help for the people left behind


We are in what you could call the East


Midlands' coal dust belt, with a message


They keep saying about a northern powerhouse.


They're talking Manchester, Nottingham, place like that.


They're not talking about lhttle villages like here, Edwinstow.


And never mind calls to Newcastle, one East Midlands food


manufacturer is selling ricd to China, but what difference will


Making the UK stand alone as a power country


If our Government cannot offer an alternative scheme,


it would allow bogus products effectively into the


marketplace and that would `ffect our sales and potentially otr


So plenty for our guests to get their teeth into this week.


Heather Wheeler is the Consdrvative MP for South Derbyshire


and was appointed an assist`nt whip by Theresa May.


Labour's Anne Western is thd leader of Derby County Council.


First up, the news this week of course that the preferred route of


HS2 through the Midlands has been published.


It comes into our region from just north of Birmingham.


There are changes to the earlier proposals.


It was due to pass through the west of the region, but


Plans for a tunnel under East Midlands Airport, but that has been


The line passes around it to the east.


The route goes through the liddle of London, that is still


There could be a tunnel or a viaduct over the town.


And there is a boost for Chesterfield with the possibility of


a stop there as part of a spur up to Sheffield from the mainlhne.


Of course, don't pick your tickets to


us yet, it's not due to be tp and running until 2033.


Heather Wheeler, an awfully long time to wait for all of it.


with it is it really going to happen?


I'd like it to start not just at the south, but at


the north at the same time, because the point of this is about


conductivity between the south and north.


economy from the south to the Midlands and the north and H think


it's a fantastic opportunitx for economic regeneration in an area


that is we're going to see a little bit later on,


Because the planning side of it needs to be done.


There's more work already bden done in London on the first day `nd


now this is, literally, the second phase.


What I'm looking for is phase three as well.


Anne Western, great news for Chesterfield as we


have just heard, but a bit of a blow there for Long Eaton.


There is either going to be a tunnel around


it or a viaduct over it, but it s still going to go right through it.


It will do, because Long Eaton is so close to Toton station and it's


always been known that it would go through Long Eaton.


How do we deal with the potdntial roads being severed and the


Now we know, this very week, we now know what the


Now we can start working on how we deal with the detailed


We had an East Midlands HS2 board meeting this


morning and we've agreed that there is a whole new phece


That's looking at the route and working with the Governlent


and HS2 to say, these are the problems it's going to create.


How do we limit the damage that is going


Because as Heather has said, it's going to bring massive


opportunities for jobs and growth in a way that has been


We need to capitalise on that, but we also got


to be mindful that this will cut through communities and imp`ct on


people, sometimes in the most severe way.


So, we've got to deal with that


And then of course, Heather, there is phase three to


Just to echo what Anne has said, the local council


The terms and conditions about amelioration and compdnsation,


they are actually sorted out right now.


The good news is, there is an


excellent process to take this forward.


Big spending plans in the ftture for the East Midlands on


The Brexit vote and the election of Donald


Trump have focused attention on former industrial areas left behind


as factories and jobs have disappeared.


The Chancellor's Autumn Statement will be keenly


watched this week to see if anything will be done to help them.


Our political editor Tony Roe has joined workers on the new jobs bust


picking up people in our very own rust belt


and taking them to work in


It's 5am, ahead of a 12 hour shift, Lee and Fabian won't see daxlight


The job is only possible because the council


has laid on a bus to get them to Newark.


My first reaction was, Newark is a bit far?


But she said, we pay your transport there and back,


Without this bus, I wouldn't be able to


It would be too far, it takes too long.


And the bus is vital, because there is no


commercial route from places like this to Newark with thd


I think in the post-industrhal era, we've got a different skill set


required and a lot of the pdople who were living here and working


Lee and Fabian are working at the massive warehouse here.


Getting skills like operating forklift


trucks to help their chances in the future.


The two rich schemes of employment in Ollerton used the call


The mine went first and when it was cheaper for Marks


Spencer to get clothes made in the far east,


Chris from Edwinstow had worked there since she was 15.


We could do with people looking at the


area and thinking, yes, coming to the area,


area and thinking, yes, comhng to the area, we're here to work


16 years on, she is still using her skills working from home


and she believes the area has been let down.


They keep saying about in


They are talking Manchester, Nottingham,


They are not talking about little villages like


They are all going to want ` job sometime in their life.


They say kids today don't want to work.


They can't work if they can get a job,


One thing Ollerton really needs our jobs.


A big employer to come to the town, especially for a


new generation going into the workplace.


If it can't get jobs, it


needs better infrastructure to get people to where the jobs do exist.


There are now three generathons of some families who haven't worked.


When the pits shut, the Olldrton energy village toook root at


has recently located seasonal work for some.


My son has only just found a job and he's 22.


That's down at clipper and that is seasonal.


After Christmas, he is going to be out of work again.


In Newark one shift ends, another begins.


Back to what you could call the East Midlands


They have a message for the Government.


They need to concentrate more on getting


the people there in the first place and making jobs more accesshble to


If not, you're just stuck in one local area and obviously thdre


is only so much work for so many people.


With the influx of people into the country, there are only so


Without it, we would be stuck and probably end up


This is really such a simpld idea at heart, isn't it?


Taking people from areas whdre jobs have disappeared to areas where


there seem to be more and it's changing lives as well.


We've also heard that another 15 people have


actually been for an inducthon to get into work, so it is very


A lot of the work now that the job centres do I working in


partnership with bigger employers to see where


their needs for growth is


and the sorts of employees that they want and how that mirrors


to what people are in pockets around the


It's not new, but it seems to have come of age and I


hope other employers think about taking it on.


It's being done as a partnership led by the local council


and it is helping people in training like forklift truck driving, so


things can be done even on a small-scales to make more jobs


In Derbyshire, there are three things, like that story


from you, what we're doing in Derbyshire


is we are regenerating some of the


That is the start example of that at the side of


We are creating thousands of jobs there on a former pit site.


It has taken so long, though, hasn't it?


It has, it has, because that area was hit by the recession.


We are also, just this last fortnight, we


have started the clean-up of the former Coalite site.


The Avenue site in north-east Derbyshire is the same.


The first thing is that, thd second thing is public transport is an


issue, because these are semirural areas.


We create jobs, but people in


the surrounding villages can't always get them.


It's about that infrastructtre or lack of infrastructure.


We do need to invest in the infrastructure.


The third things about the type of jobs.


We need high-quality jobs that are well


paid, going back to HS2, thd boost to Chesterfield is not just about


high-speed trains stopping there, they would be the Staveley


maintenance depot, which will bring back


to that area a tradition of


high quality engineering jobs that we can take pride in.


Not low paid, low skill, seasonal jobs.


We need something with some substance that


people can look forward to further children,


that give people a sense of security and faith in the future.


The Autumn Statement is coming up this week.


What can we expect from the Chancellor?


Any help you for us in the Dast Midlands?


You can't possibly expect md as a minister


of the Government to tell you what is going to be in the Autumn


What I would like to look ott for is some nice plum infrastructure


opportunities, but also mord long-term things I could thd


There are over 200 firms around area that


are involved in the rail industry alone.


We have great news going on, more contacts only have ever had.


Rolls-Royce, more contacts than ever.


Thank goodness, we want that to carry on going.


It is the next step and the next step.


That's what I want to look out for out of the


infrastructure projects coming through.


All eyes on Philip Hammond on Wednesday.


Will there be much in his Autumn Statement far as


And will there be much vaunted Midlands engine


One of the region's experts on the economy says the


Chancellor's statement is a vital moment for that project.


I think the Autumn Statement is very important.


It think it's a crucial test of credibility, actually.


We've heard a lot said about the potential of the


Midlands engine, Theresa Max in the summer was very bullhsh


in sending out her support for that initiative,


but as yet, we've seen very little in the way of investment ch`nnelled


into the Midlands under that initiative.


It's a big contrast with wh`t we've seen in the north and the


northern powerhouse, whereas they estimated something


like ?7.8 billion worth of public money has


If you're asking the same qtestion of the Midlands, we're


struggling to identify more than a couple of hundred million.


That's quite a big gap, isn't it, between the


spending for the northern powerhouse in the Midlands engine?


Two things, first of all, we are going to get HS2


It's going to take time to have that.


But that is what he was really saying, that actually win the


northern powerhouse became Mr Osborne's key focus, it has then


taken five years for that money to come through.


We do not want that for the Midlands engine and I think


one of the things that is so good about us


and where we can go, we are


the beating heart of the nation that's what we do, engineerhng jobs,


You have just returned from a trip to China


I went on it thinking, I'm not really sure, like you, how


much substance is there to the Midlands engine.


I have come back absolutely enthused, because the prospdct of


bringing back investment from China are staggering.


The Government policy in Chhna is to


internationalise their economy and to look to invest, so wd are


There's massive potential to get investment in our


Post Brexit, we do need to look elsewhere other than


How will winning those cont`cts in China help us here,


As a starter, I think we can do a very


There is a growing middle class in China that


There are very interested in heritage.


Bringing them to Chatsworth, I was showing them photo


We can get tourism input straightaway.


Then we can get investment from manufacturing and so on.


We're not going to be able to rely on European


What was important about th`t trip was the folk from East


Midlands Airport went and that is absolutely key for us.


Birmingham is only down the road and lots of south


If we can get links between the regional


cities in China and East Midlands Airport


To be honest, I think there is more substance knowingly Midlands


engine then that is in northern powerhouse.


I think it is a bit superficial.


I think beneath that there is not an awful


I maybe wrong, I am the outside looking in.


Midlands engine, the local authorities


Midlands are now coming togdther anyway that I have seen before and I


certainly made it my business Derbyshire is in there, bec`use I


want us to get the maximum benefit from this.


Some cash would be good at Autumn Statement, wouldn't it?


I think that there are many, many opportunities to go and visit


I am lucky enough to be able to work in the


international trade Departmdnt, so I know the diaries the mhnisters


The Midlands engine has been trying to


boost exports to China, as we have just been hearing.


One Derbyshire firm is doing just that in


spectacular style, by selling rice to the Chinese.


Granny Mary's in Derbyshire says its winning contacts


around the world as the pound falls in value.


The company has welcomed thd Brexit vote and says it is good


news for the region's food producers.


Others are worried about wh`t life outside the EU will mean for our


speciality foods, which havd protected status.


However our relationship with the EU pans out,


we still need to eat and


food producers in the East Lidlands are already eyeing up new


opportunities here and abro`d - whatever the outcome of Brexit.


In Chesterfield, Granny Mary's produces


high-quality meat products to original family recipes.


They are a success, having recently secured an


They want a yellow rice in particular instead of whhte rice,


they can't produce good-quality yellow race in Hong Kong.


Most people eat away from home in Hong Kong.


They have a couple of stories in Hong Kong.


They fly by jet each day re`dy meals to their shops


Will leaving be used to help this firm?


For us, for export, it's made it so much easier


for people from outside of the UK wanting to buy, because of the


It has meant they can buy so much more for a


For us it has helped and I think making the UK stand


alone as a power country is only going to be of benefit.


Until 2003, the UK had its own stringent meat


and food production rules, then EU regulation came in and many local


food producers say that might not have helped consumers.


Labelling is being destroyed on food by the EU.


In 2003, they abandoned all the food regulations,


provided now you say somewhdre, you call it chicken


korma, that can only have 4% chicken in it.


That's all that's needed to qualify that.


If you put the list of


ingredients, 4% chicken, that is fine.


At Brocklesby, they rely on EU rules to


If our Government cannot offer an alternative scheme,


have some sort of protectivd status for a food


product, then it will effectively open the door to anybody who wants


to call their porkpie a porkpie to do so.


It would allow bogus products into the marketplace and th`t would


affect sales and potentiallx our livelihood.


Back in Chesterfield, they are looking beyond Europe to


sell traditional British me`ls, like chicken korma.


Granny Mary's there certainly showing us how you can


A company that is very sure we are better off out of thd EU


I think that it's just typical of Derbyshire


Let's find a solution to the problem.


I think there are people out there that will seize opportunities.


My ask to Government is to give us some certainty, given some certainty


about how long EU funding is going to continue


Provide us with openings into international markets and I'm sure


For the porkpie manufacturers, I can completely see


At the moment, those pies h`ve protected status, as you know.


Stilton cheese, take that away and anyone can just go and lake it


Well, take away that protected status, remove th`t


Why would anybody take the protected status away?


OK, are you saying that it would


Andrea Leadsom, who is a superb Secretary of State for


environment, food and rural affairs, understands to her fingertips were


the rural areas need and the farmers need


and the producers of food and


We actually import something like 75% of our


We need to get better at doing this anyway.


The Department of trade, we've taken on the UK TI.


The great brand is going all over the world.


These trade missions are going out there day


are launching in January a fantastic new website and my challengd to you


and all your wonderful viewers is, I want to see


a brand-new company in


every constituency, 650 odd new companies


Becoming new exporters, because they would get


every single assistance to


I admire your enthusiasm, but it do think the


I think David Cameron has a lot to answer for, because you


She has inherited a bit of a problem.


We need from the Government now they


like my certainty about how Brexit is going to play out.


Your Government cannot offer that right


Firstly, Andrea Leadsom has already given certainty to the


It is 2020 and beyond for the CAP funding.


That gets is not only over 2019 but beyond that.


Then it will be reviewed in line with what the actual producdrs want,


because at the minute, there are some parts that don't fit


very well for our country, compared to other


Similarly, when it comes to trade, the pound


being low doesn't buy too many bits and pieces.


It helps you with the product that you sell out.


Time now for a round-up of some of the other


political stories from the East Midlands today.


Controversial plans to carrx out tests drilling to assess


the potential for fracking hn Nottinghamshire have been ghven the


The county council approved the plans for a site at Misson


Valley are to be switched off to save cash.


The borough council says 55 cameras have recorded little or


Unite union has strongly criticised plans


to cut over a quarter of he`lth visitors in Nottinghamshire.


The candy bars make health care trust


A personal plea in the housd from South Leicestershire MP Alberto


He wants assurances his Italian parents will be able to stax


Canny Prime Minister assure me that she will never instruct me to vote


in a lobby to take away the rights of my parents and millions of EU


citizens? Theresa May told him she could not make any promises ahead of


the Brexit negotiations. Paroled Arbel through a cost rather worried


about his parents and their future. -- Alberto Costa. Think it hs


excellent use the Prime Minhster's Questions for that. It helps Theresa


May get the point of there that we have lots of UK citizens working


abroad and we need to make sure they are safe as well. She offerdd no


guarantees. It's a negotiathon. He is still worried about it. We are


always worried about her appearance. Of course, we are. You can see our


reports again on social medha pages. Thank you very much to our guest


this week, never happened and will not happen


in four years. It is subject we should spend more time on. Back to


you. What will the Chancellor have to say


in his first big economic statement? What impact will the forecasters say


Brexit will have on the economy And who will face the Front


National's Marine Le Pen in Well, the Shadow Chancellor


and the Chancellor have both been touring the television


studios this morning. Let's be clear, a lot of this


is going to be gimmicks and press As I've said, in the


pipeline, we've only seen one in five delivered


to construction, that's all. So a lot of this will be a repeat


of what I'm not going to reveal


what I'm going to say on We don't have unlimited


capacity, as one might imagine from listening


to John McDonnell, to borrow hundreds of billions of pounds more


for discretionary spending. That simply doesn't


exist if we're going to retain this country's hard-won


credibility in the financial markets if we are going to remain


an attractive place for business to We didn't learn very much, Helen,


but the papers were briefed this morning that there will be another


?1.3 billion for roads and things like that. ?1.3 billion is 0.08 of


our GDP. Not exactly an infrastructure investment programme,


is it? Yellow like I have to say, it was not thrilling to read the


details. -- I have to say... It is the first big financial statement


that is going to come and I think there will be a big row about the


OBE are forecast because they cannot set out a range, they have to commit


to one forecast. Everything they do is incredibly political. DOB are is


on a hiding to nothing. -- DOB are -- the Office for Budget


Responsibility. I don't know how they will square the circle. It is


an interesting week. It is all about the economy and public finances and


we don't have to talk about Brexit until next Sunday, but no, I have a


terrible feeling that by the end of Wednesday afternoon we will be


screaming and shouting about how Brexit is going to be for the


economy. Just imagine the Treasury comes out with his forecast that it


is going to collapse growth and collapsed Treasury takings, people


will be apoplectic. Until now, the economy has continued to grow


strongly. Pretty well. They cannot say, we have noticed it slowing down


and that will continue. They have to take a punt if they think it will


slow down. It affects the Chancellor's figures, because the


more they say it is slowing down, and I have seen that it will go from


2% down to 1.4%, the more the Chancellor's deficit rises even


without any more tax cuts and spending. Absolutely. I think Tom is


right. What we will see this week is a continuation of the debate we have


been having all along. If the Office for Budget Responsibility has


negative and gloomy predictions there will be howls of agony, and


rightly howls of frustration from Brexiteers who will say that all the


dire predictions from before the referendum have not come to pass and


now you are talking things down in a way that becomes a self-fulfilling


prophecy. The money for roads, you were dismissive about it, but every


little helps. I don't dismiss it, I say it doesn't amount to a fiscal


stimulus in macro economic terms. I'm sure if you are on that road, it


will be useful. They are going to build a super highway between Oxford


and Cambridge. I would like to see them go out to Japan and learn how


to fill a hole in two days. I would suggest the road from Oxford to


Cambridge is not for the just managing classes, even though it


goes through Milton Keynes, and that simply freezing due freezing fuel


duty isn't going to hack it, either. These just about managing people are


potentially quite a big band. With income tax rises, it means anything


you do to help them is incredibly expensive. The universal credit


freeze is an interesting example of that. Philip Hammond sounded


ambivalent about it after pre-briefings that it might not the


cuts might not go ahead. There are people who are in work but because


they are low paid don't have the number of hours, they require


welfare benefits to top up their pay, and these welfare benefits as


it stands, are frozen until 202 , and yet inflation is now starting to


rise. That's a problem for the just managing people. Correct. It is


worse than that, because we are talking about April 2017 when tax


credits become universal credits, so the squeeze will be greater. We will


get a small highway between a couple of university towns, but if he has


any money left to spend at all, it will be on some pretty seismic


jazzman for the just about managing people. I am so glad we're not


calling them Jams on this programme, because it is a patronising tone.


What the Chancellor and Shadow Chancellor did not confront is that


Mr Trump's election is a watershed in terms of being able to borrow


cheaply. The Federal Reserve is about to start raising rates. The


days of cheap borrowing for governments could be coming to an


end. You can feel a bit sorry for labour here because after having had


six years of being told that we need a surplus and these things are


important, we can't deny the deficit, we have switched now and


the first thing that Philip Hammond did was to scrap George Osborne s


borrowing targets. He has given himself more wriggle room than


George Osborne had. He has and it will cost them more. Debt servicing


will now rise as a cost. Where is the next political earthquake going


to happen? It could be Italy, or the French


elections coming up next spring Now, who will face the Front


National's Marine Le Pen in next year's French Presidential


elections? Well, France's centre-right


part, Les Republicans, are selecting their candidate


in the first round of Well, France's centre-right


part, Les Republicans, are selecting their candidate


in the first round of Let's speak to our correspondent


in Paris, Hugh Schofield. Welcome to the programme. Three main


candidates, the former -- two former prime ministers and Nicolas Sarkozy,


the former president. It is not clear who the front runner is.


Robbins it is quite an exciting race, because four weeks it did look


as if it was going to be Juppe. It is a two round race. Two go through


and the idea is that they rally all the support together. It looked like


the first round would be dominated by Juppe and Nicolas Sarkozy, and


there was a clear binary combination there, because Sarkozy was looking


for squeamish far right voters. In other words, veering clearly to the


right and far right on immigration and identity issues. And Juppe is


the opposite, saying we had to appeal to the centre. That was what


it looked like. But the third candidate has made this really quite


staggering surge in the last few days. There was a debate on Thursday


and he was deemed to have won it on television. He is coming up


strongly, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him go through


which would be interesting from a British perspective, because if the


becomes president, he will be the first president with a British wife.


His wife Penelope is Welsh. We will have to leave it there. I


would suggest that the reason it is fascinating is that whoever wins


this primary for the centre-right party is likely to be the next


president, and who the next president is will be very important


for Britain in these Brexit negotiations. Nothing will really


happen until it is determined. Then after the German elections in


October. I would add one more constituent part. The most important


thing about the race is who can stop Marine Le Pen. Marine Le Pen will


almost be one of the ones in the run-off. The Socialists don't expect


much. Francois Hollande is done There is too much of a cliff to


climb. Which one of these three centre-right candidates can stop


Marine Le Pen? We have had Brexit and Trump, but we could also have


Marine Le Pen. If it is Sarkozy it is the battle of the right. In some


areas, he has moved to the right of marine Le Pen. I suppose he feels he


has do in order to take the wind out of our sails. You wonder if she


could succeed later on if she does not this time. Talking to French


analysts last night, there was suggesting that she could not do it


this time but could win the next time. All the events in France over


the last year seemed to provide the most propitious circumstances for


her to do well, and particularly if you throw in Trump and Brexit.


Suppose it is Mr Sarkozy, and he goes through and wins the Republican


nomination, and he and Marine Le Pen go through to the second round, that


would mean, think about it, is that a lot of French socialist voters and


those on the father left would have to grit their teeth and vote for


Nicolas Sarkozy. They might not do it. We might see what we saw in


America, where lots of potential Clinton voters did not turn out You


got politicians like Melanchon on the far left saying there are


foreign workers taking bread out of French workers' mounts. We sometimes


forget, because we tend to emphasise the National of the National front,


but actually, there are economic policy is quite Bennite. Sarkozy is


the Hillary Clinton of the French elections. He is Mr establishment.


Juppe and the other third candidate are the same. You have to


re-establish candidates running against an antiestablishment


candidate. There are populist economic policies from the National


front. The other three want to raise the retirement age and cut back on


the 35 hour week, which are not classic electoral appeals. Mr Juppe


used to be the Mayor of Bordeaux. And we are the biggest importers of


claret, so that could have an effect. In 2002, it was Jack Shear


against John Marine Le Pen, and the socialist campaign slogan was, vote


for the Crook, not the fascist. We will see what they come up with this


time. The Daily Politics is back at noon


tomorrow on BBC Two, where on Wednesday I will have full


coverage of the Chancellor's Autumn But remember, if it's Sunday,


it's the Sunday Politics.


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