06/04/2014 Sunday Politics East


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 06/04/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!



Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.


Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Pressure on Culture Secretary Maria


Miller mounts as the Tory press Tory voters and even a Tory Minister


turn against her. That's our top story.


The economic outlook is getting rosier. But Ed Miliband is having


none of it. The cost of living crisis is here to stay, says Labour.


Shadow Minister Caroline Flint joins us for the Sunday Interview.


And we bring you the Sunday Politics Gallery. But which former world


leader is behind these paintings of world


Here in the East, what has Durope ever done for us? We can reveal


surprising new figures showhng just how much


new London borough. A blue flint for regeneration or economic Armageddon?


And with me as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the


business - Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Their tweets will be


as brief as a Cabinet Minister's apology.


A frenzy of betting on the Grand National yesterday. But there was


one book on which betting was suspended, and that was on the fate


of Culture Secretary Maria Miller, now the 2/1 favourite to be forced


out the Cabinet. She galloped through her apology to the Commons


on Thursday in just 32 seconds. But speed did her no favours. There s


been mounting pressure on her to resign ever since, especially from


Tories. And this weekend the Chairman of the Independent


Parliamentary Standards Authority, Ian Kennedy, said it's time MPs gave


away the power to decide how colleagues who break the rules are


punished. An inquiry into Maria Miller's expenses claims was launch


in 2012, following allegations he claimed ?90,000 to fund a house she


lived in part time with her parents. She had designated this her second


home. She was referred to the Parliamentary Standards


Commissioner, who recommended that she repay ?45,000. But this week the


Commons Standards Committee, comprising of MPs from all parties,


dismissed the complaint against Maria Miller and ordered her to


repay just ?5,800 for inadvertently overclaiming her merge claimants.


She was forced to apologise to the Commons for the legalistic way she


dealt with the complaints against her. But Tony Gallagher told the


Daily Politics on Friday: We got a third call from Craig Oliver who


pointed out, she is looking at Leveson and the call is badly timed.


I think if you are making a series of telephone calls to a newspaper


organisation investigating the conduct of a Cabinet Minister, that


comes close After that interview Craig Oliver


contacted us, saying there was no threat in anyway over Leveson. I


mead it clear at the time. Tony Gallagher is talking rubbish about


me, and you can use that. The Daily Telegraph have released a tape of a


phone call between Maria Miller s aid, Joanna Hindley, and a reporter


investigating her expenses claim. Joanna Hindley said:


Maria's obviously been having quite a lot of editor's meetings around


Leveson at the moment. So I'm just going to kind of flag up that


connection for you to think about. The Prime Minister is sticking by


his Culture Secretary, but this weekend's crescendo of criticism of


her presents him with a problem and he could be wishing Maria Miller


would just fall on her sword. Even over 80% of Tory voters in a Mail on


Sunday poll think she should go On the Andrew Marr Show, the Work and


Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, defended his colleague. I've


known her always to be a reasonable and honest person. But is she doing


the Government or her any good by staying in office at the moment do


you think? This is a matter the Prime Minister has to take


consideration of and she herself. My view generally is I'm supportive of


Maria, because if we are not careful we end one a witch-hunt of somebody.


And I'm joined now by the Conservative MP, Bob Stewart, and


the man in the white suit, former MP and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin


Bell. Welcome and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin


Stuart sturkts let me put this to you, a Conservative MP told this


programme, this is a quote, she has handled this appallingly. Downing


Street has acted like judge and jury, for Craig Oliver to get


involved is disastrous. She's been protected by the whips from the


start. What do you say to that? It's not great, is it? The fact of the


matter is the question one should ask is, did she deliberately try to


make money? Did she deliberately try to obscure ate? The answer is she


certainly didn't deliberately try to make money, in the system, which was


the old system, and with regard to obscure ago, I wasn't there, but


let's put it this way. She was going through a quasi-judicial process and


might have ended up in court, so she has a right to defend herself. Hold


on o you said she doesn't do it to make money, she remortgaged the


house a couple of times to earn more interest to us, the taxpayer, and


when interest rates went down she didn't reduce the amount she was


charging in expenses. Well, the point is the adjudicator said there


was ?45,000 she was owed. And then a committee, Standards Committee, said


actually it should be reduced. That was mainly MPs but there are three


lay members. Yes, but they don't have the vote. OK, fine, that is


where it is wrong and we've got to get it sorted. Let me put another


quote from our Conservative MP. He didn't want to be named. None of you


do at the moment. I'm being named. But you are backing her. George


young in cahoots. He's been leading on the Standards Committee to find


her innocent. The Standards Committee is unfit for purpose. I


think the Standards Committee should be revisited. I think the system is


still evolving. And I think actually we ought to have totally independent


judgment on MPs' pay and allowances. We haven't have not got there yet


and that is where it is wrong. Martin Bell, have MPs interfered in


the Maria Miller process and with the current Standards Commissioner


in the same way that they saw off a previous Commissioner they thought


was too independent? Andrew it is exactly the same. Yesterday I looked


at a diary entry I made for May 2000, I said, dreadful meeting


standards and privileges, they are playing party politics. One of them


told Elizabeth fill kin to her face the gossip in the tea room was she


had gone crazy. Nothing's changed. What this shows is most of all,


what's the committee for? If it is just going to rubber stamp what the


party wants and its mates, I don't see any point. But it hasn't rubber


stamped. It's changed it. Well, it has watered down. That's why we


should make it totally independent and it shouldn't be involved in the


House of Commons. It is plus plus ca change isn't it? MPs', scandal, and


MPs closing ranks for one of their own. Has the Commons learned


nothing? And this is after the expenses scandal, where everything


was out for everybody to see, you would think MPs would be careful.


This is before the expenses scandal. We are looking at an historical


event, during your time, Martin not mine. I'm clean on this. You


campaigned for him as an independent. I did, he was a good


friend of mine. And now you've joined the club. And now you are


defending Maria Miller? I'm defending someone who hasn't been


proved guilty of anything beyond the fact she was rather slow to come


forward with evidence. My point on that, is I understand that. MPs are


being lambasted the whole time these days. There were a heck of a lot of


them, Martin, who are utterly decent. She didn't try to make


money. We've just been through that. I don't think that's right. The jury


is out on that. What should have happened in the Miller case, Martin


Bell? I don't think there should be a committee on standards. I think


the Commissioner should make a report. There has been to be justice


for the MP complained against. Then the committee of the whole House can


consider it. But we are, the House of Commons, then as now is incapable


of regulating itself. That's been proving yet again. She made a


perfunctory apology. She threatened and instructed the Standards


Commissioner investigating her, and her special adviser linked expenses


to Leveson, when trying to stop the Daily Telegraph from publishing I


mean, is that the behaviour of a Cabinet Minister? Well, it's


probably not the behaviour of someone that's got time on their


hands. She's a very busy Cabinet Minister. Well, she had enough time


to write lots of letters to the Standards Commission ser. She felt


under such threat. She had the time. She had to make the time. Die know


the lady is not trying desperately to make money. I


the lady is not trying desperately that. The fact of the matter is


this was an old, old system, that we've tried to put right, or the


Commons has tried to put right. I agree that MPs shouldn't get


involved in this. Should we get rid of this committee? It serves no


purpose except to cause trouble The adjudicator has said that and it


should be the end of it. It shouldn't come back to the Commons.


Although her special adviser threatened them over Leveson she was


and is the Minister responsible for trying to introduce something like


Leveson and that is something a big chunk that the press doesn't want.


She is a target. It has a good record on this issue. It played wit


a straight bat. The facts aren't in dispute are they? Will she make it


to the next cabinet reshuffle and then go? Iain Duncan Smith said it


is a matter for the Prime Minister. In my view, as things stand, I


question did she deliberately want to make money? I don't think she


did. Should she go? No. Should she be reshuffled? I don't know.


Goodness me, you are asking someone who will never be reshuffled,


because he will never make it. I was only asking for your opinion, not


your ability to do it. This is a problem for Cameron isn't it? It is


a problem for Cameron. There is nothing wrong with returning to be


badge benches, as you know. Hear, hear. To that. Stick with me. Helen,


can she survive? Is I'm going out of the prediction game when I said


Clegg is going to win the date, so I owe Janan a tenner on that one.


Grant Shapps has supported her. She was ringed by Sir George young and


Jeremy Hunt... This is pretty devastating. On past form David


Cameron hates having to bounce people out of the cabinet. He will


want to keep Maria Miller until the summer reshuffle. This is a question


mark on whether she survive this is. This isn't damaging to the


Conservative or the Labour Party, it is damaging to everyone. This is


catastrophic damage to the entire political establishment. Every


single speech that David Cameron and Ed Miliband have given since 20 9,


talking about restoring trust, they can wipe them from their computers,


because voters are going to look that there and say, this lot haven't


learnt anything. They are giving perfunctory apologies and then you


have MPs sitting in judgment on MPs and rather than paying back ?45 000,


she pays back ?5,800 after MPs have been into it. Damage is huge. Just


getting rid of one Cabinet Minister, you will need to do more than that.


You will notice that Labour haven't made huge weather of this. No,


goodness me, they have their own skeletons. Exactly. The person who


has made hay out of this is Nigel Farage, who has not been backwards


in coming forward. He doesn't seem to care about skeletons. The Prime


Minister has be-Gunby backing her, but that's not popular even with


Tory voters. How does he get out of this? This is the problem for him.


Five years ago his reaction to the expenses scandal was seen by many


Tory backbenchers as excessive. They felt hung out to dry by a man who is


independently wealthy. To go from that to making a special exemption


to Maria Miller because it is politically suitable is more


incendiary and provocative. It is not just upsetting the voters and


the Daily Telegraph but a good number of people behind him. I think


they will get rid of her. I think the Government, to paraphrase


Churchill, will zoo the decent thing after exhausting all options, of the


European elections a reshuffle. The culture department has gone from a


baulk water in haul to one of the most politically sensational jobs


because of its proximity to the Leveson issue. She has to be


replaced by someone Lily skillful and substantial. Mr Cameron is not


short of smart women? Nikki Morgan, the education department, these are


absolutely outstanding women and the problem that the generation elected


in 2005, Maria Miller generation, there are some really good people


elected in 2010. You are not responsible for hacking into the


culture Department's Twitter account last night? I was out at the time!


They all say that! One so, Maria Miller is like a modern-day Robin


Hood... She robs the poor to help the rich. Which one of us has not


embezzled the taxpayer? I reckon it is the lady. You have the perfect


cover. We would not know how to would we? You cannot tweet from a


mobile device, can you? Play it safe. No, do something dramatic


Have lots of pledges. Have just a few pledges. Ah, there must be a


Labour policy review reaching its conclusion because everyone has some


free advice for the party about its message and the man delivering it.


Here's Adam. He is well liked by the public don't quite buy him as a


leader. The papers say he is in hock to the unions and the party has a


lead in the polls but it is not solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That


is what they said Winnie solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That


the 1982 election. The whole country deserves better and we will work to


ensure that the day will come when with the Labour government, the


country will get better. Someone who was there can see some spooky


parallels. The important lesson from 1992 is it cannot rest on your


laurels and hope for the best, you cannot sit on a lead of seven points


because the election narrows that and you cannot rely on the


government not getting its act together because the Conservative


Party was well funded and organised, the double whammy posters, the tax


bombshell, but incredibly effective and the message was unified and they


beat us on the campaign. The lesson for Labour today is this lead will


evaporate quite possibly over the next few months and we might go into


the election behind in the polls. But Ed Miliband is getting


conflicting advice about how to avoid 1992 happening. Be bold, be


cautious and then, the idea that Labour can squeak into office with


just 35% of the vote, which worries some people. Each month, the Labour


Party meets around the country and last week, everybody spoke about the


dangers of this 35% strategy. They were increasingly unhappy and it is


very important that those people around the leader naturally have a


duty to protect him and they make sure he gets this message that while


there is total support for him, they do want this key year in the run-up


to the General Election to be putting out an alternative which we


can defend on the doorstep. The doorstep where Neil Kinnock made his


concession speech is crammed with Spanish back hackers. The old Labour


offices are no a budget hostel. Labour headquarters is down the road


and they are putting the finishing touches to a speech Ed Miliband will


give this week about the cost of living and I am told he will drop


hints about new policies in juicy areas like housing, low pay, growth


and devolving power. As for the charge that they are not radical


enough, his people say they want to be bold but they have to be credible


as well. They say that Labour is more united than it has ever been


but there has been some grumbling that the cost of living campaign is


not the same as a vision for the country. And that Ed Miliband was


not statesman-like enough at Prime Minister's Questions and one figure


who sat at the same table in the Neil Kinnock years summed it up like


this. Things are OK but it feels like we're playing for the draw


Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint joins me now for the Sunday


Interview. This 35% victory strategy, it does not sound very


ambitious? I am campaigning to win this election with a majority


government and everybody else around the table is also. But we want to go


to every corner of the country and win votes for Labour and win seats,


that is what we are working towards. To avoid last time, the coalition


bartering. But that 35% is a victory strategy so are you saying there is


no 35% strategy and that no one at the heart of Labour is not arguing


for this? We are working to win around the country and to win all of


those battle ground seats and we must have a strategy that appeals to


a cross-section of the public but within that, that broad group Queen


Elizabeth Olympic Park and. You could do that with 35% of the vote?


There is lots of polling and everyone looks at this about what we


need to do to get seats and we want to have a comprehensive majority at


the next election to win to have a comprehensive majority at


this country. Last week, we have been reading reports of splits in


the party over policy and on tactics, even strategy. A struggle


for control of the General Election manifesto, we are told. What are you


arguing over? I said on the committee and just listening to the


film before, it is about being radical but also credible and we are


talking about evolution and that is an important subject but we are also


united and to be honest, in 201 people were writing us off saying we


would turn on ourselves and that has not been the case. We are not


arguing about the fundamentals, we are discussing the policies that are


coming up with different colleagues and talking about how we can make


coming up with different colleagues sure they are presented to the


public and that is part of a process. That is a discussion, not


disagreement. The Financial Times, which is usually pretty fair,


reports a battle between Ed Miliband's radical instincts and the


more business fiscal conservatism of Ed Balls. What side are you on? I am


for radical change, I am for energy and I believe strongly we must be


formed the market and people might portray that as anti-business but


this is about more competition and transparency and others coming into


this market so our policy on this is radical, not excepting the status


quo. It is also for business. Opinion polls show that few people


regard Ed Miliband as by Minister material -- Prime Minister material.


That has been true since he became leader. And in some cases, they have


been getting worse. Why is that Opinion polls say certain things


about the personalities of leaders, David Cameron is not great either.


And they were not great when he was in opposition. At this stage, he was


getting 49% as Prime Minister real material and Ed Miliband, 19. -


Prime Minister material. When you look at certain questions that the


public is asked about who you think you would trust about being fair in


terms of policy towards Britain who understands the cost of living


crisis, they very much identify with Ed Miliband. We are ahead in the


polls. Ed Miliband has made that happen. We have one more


councillors, we have been running in by-elections and we have held this


government over the barrel over six months on energy prices. That is to


do with his leadership. The more that voters save him, the less they


seem convinced. In 2011, he had been leader for one year, and only 1 %


regarded him as weird, by 2014, that was 41%. Look at that! Look at that


weirdness! What people need is to know where the Labour Party stands


on fundamental issues. And in those areas, particularly the cost of


living and fairness and people being concerned that we are entering into


a period where people will be worse for the first time ever at the end


of the Parliament, these things are important and Ed Miliband is part of


our success. Definitely. I think this is ridiculous, to be fair, he


is not a politician that says, I am dying with the Arctic monkeys, I


know who is the number one. He did not play that game. -- down. He is


not either there to portray himself as someone who was with the


children, I know everything about popular culture. His authenticity is


the most important thing. People do not think he is authentic, unless


they think we were at is authentic. Is it true that his staff applaud


they think we were at is authentic. him when he comes back after giving


even a mediocre speech? I have never heard that. I have never heard about


him being applauded. And I am pleased to applaud him with he makes


speeches, I have given him a standing ovation. You have to do


that because the cameras are rolling! No, he made a good speech.


Five minutes without notes. It took a long time to memorise I don't


blame him! The cost of living. Focusing on that, it has paid


dividends. But inflation is falling and perhaps collapsing, unemployment


is falling faster than anybody thought, as we can see. Wages are


rising, soon faster than prices Retail sales are booming, people


have got money in their pockets Isn't the cost of living crisis


narrative running out of steam? I do not think so and I should say that I


welcome any sign of positive changes in the economy, if anybody gets a


job in Doncaster, I am pleased by the end of this Parliament families


will be over ?900 worse off because of tax and benefit changes and the


working person is ?1600 worse off and it is the first government since


the 1870s where people will be at the end of the Parliament. We


believe the government made wrong choices that lead the rich off at


the expense of those on middle and lower incomes. -- let the rich. The


average family ?794 worse off from tax and benefit changes. That has


been backed up. They are those figures. But he has skewed these


figures by including the richest, where the fall in tax and the


penalty they pay is highest. If you take away the richest, it is nowhere


near that figure. Everybody agrees and even the government and


knowledges that at the end of their tenure in Parliament, people will be


worse off. 350,000 extra people who would desperately like full-time


work who are working part-time and 1 million young people unemployed and


the reason the cost of living has a residence is people feel that. I was


in a supermarket and at Doncaster and someone summed this up, he said


I work hard and at the end of the week, beyond paying bills, I have


got nothing else. If you take away the top 10% who are losing over


?600,000, the average loss comes down to around ?400, less than half


of what you claim. That figure is totally misleading. These are the


figures from the IFS. It still shows... Whatever way you shape


this, people will still be worse off, families worse off because of


these changes to tax and benefits and working people because wages


have not kept up with prices. Your energy portfolio, you back the


enquiry into the big six companies and you intend to go ahead with the


price freeze and reconfigure the market even before it reports. If


you win, this is a waste of time? Whilst we have had this process


before the announcement, we always feel if it goes that way, there


might be areas we have not thought of that the enquiry will also draw


attention to that we might want to add on. You are right, our basic


reforms for the new regulator, to separate generation supply, we will


pursue that. What happens if this report concludes that your plans are


not correct? You will still go ahead? I don't think so. Actually,


if you look at the report that Ofgem produced, some of the issues Labour


has been drawing attention to like vertical integration, they cover


that. I was asking about the Competition Commission? The report


last week is a result of working together and I think it is clearly


accepted in this sector, look at SSE last week, they will separate the


business. We are pushing at the open door. It has already pulled out of


gas. So it follows if you freeze energy prices across the market it


might be the right thing to do but there will be a cost in terms of


jobs and investment, correct? Well, I met with SSE last weekand the


chief executive and talked about these issues. The jobs changes are


partly about them looking at how they could be more efficient as a


company. On offshore wind that wasn't really to do with the price


freeze. That was more to do with issues around confidence in that


area and therefore willing to put the money into it, as well as


technical issues as well But there'll be job losses. Is that a


price worth paying? We believe the reason we are having a price freeze


is these companies have been overcharging customers and haven't


been investing in their organisations and making them more


efficient. I do not believe a price freeze is linked to job losses.


These companies do need to be more efficient. Goal for all of us is


realising the fantastic opportunity for more jobs and growth from an


energy sector that has certainty going forward. That's what Labour


will deliver. Caroline Flint, thank you.


It's 1130 and you're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to


viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland.


Coming up Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics


in the East. Coming up, we dxplain why David Cameron has been waxing


lyrical about our region. E`st Anglia is one of the fastest`growing


parts of our country with world`class companies and


universities. The ball starts rolling in this year's EU elections.


We ask, what has been EU done for us? And Nick Clegg is back hn the


debate over Europe, making the case that we are all better off thanks to


the EU. I want more people to listen to the facts and not the fiction,


and appreciate that whatever its imperfections, it is better for us,


it creates jobs and prosperhty and strength in numbers.


First, high guests, Lib Dem MP for Cambridge Julian Huppert, and


Douglas Carswell of the Conservatives. I would like to speak


about this week's promise of a new era for rail passengers in the East.


?2 billion is being spent in the next five years overhauling services


in the region. Work is alre`dy underway to link Cambridge `nd


Peterborough to the South coast with a tunnel under London. One LP argued


the case for faster trains to Norwich at the end use. Will ye


agree with me that East Anglia needs faster and better rail


infrastructure? I pay tribute to the honourable lady and others for the


work they are doing on the Norwich task force. This is an important


project. I welcome the interest shown by business leaders and local


authorities. East Anglia is one of the fastest whirring parts of our


country with world`class universities. I look forward to the


task force report. Meetings this week in Essex to back


the business campaign behind Norwich in 90. Canada knocked growth? It is


key. Chloe Smith has done an important job in spearheading this


campaign. Norwich in 90 also means Colchester in 40. That will be great


news for Essex. Railways arteries. We need them to flow properly to


bring growth and jobs. Is about linked to the South coast `` good


news about links to the South coast. Are these small strategic


investments the way forward rather than huge schemes? We need `s much


as we can get. HST will makd a huge difference for capacity on the West


Coast, but we also need improvements locally. Ideally, we would get a


connection out to Oxford. If you can connect regional towns, that has


huge potential for growth. White investment in transport links is one


of the plus points put forw`rd by the pro`European lobby. This week,


the UK Independence Party l`unched its local campaign for the Duropean


elections, while party leaddrs Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage traddd blows


in a live television debate. What exactly have our Euro end is issued


for us at the end of their five years? It certainly secured a love


of funding for the East. Figures obtained by this programme secured


that `` revealed that more than ?1 billion has come our way. I wonder


if that is something that UKIP's candidate for the region, P`trick


Flynn, will be celebrating. We went to Brussels to find out why our MEPs


feel they have done a good job. It is nearly election time, and in


Brussels, there has been an end of term feeling this week as the party


is nearly election time, and in Brussels, there has been an end of


term feeling this week as the parties prepare and win over a


sceptical public. Europe has always been a divisive issue, parthcularly


in our country. There are some who think that what goes on herd is


completely irrelevant and ott of touch with ordinary life and that


those who were elected here in 009 have wasted five years of their


lives. Perhaps not surprisingly most of our MEPs feel it has been


worthwhile. Lib Dems, by far the most Euro friendly of the p`rties


here, believe the EU has done nothing less than save the dconomy.


Their MEP for the East says it is only by coordinating rescues and


regulations that we have made it through the recession. With all our


problems and the complexitids, the European Union has survived. We have


almost, not quite, fixed thd banking system. But how much of that is down


to the EU and how much is down to government being sensible and


working together? I don't think that if we had left it to governlent on


their own, this would have happened. For the Conservatives, it is all


about stopping Europe from having too much of a say in our lives. New


girl Vicky Ford, here visithng fishermen in Kings Lynn, talks about


her fight against red tape, banking regulations and winning back power


from Brussels. We have said and continued to say that our


relationship with Europe nedds to change. The fishing industrx is one


in `` area where we have already brought back powers from Brtssels.


This is irresponsible and dangerous! The reason I am winning


those negotiations, and thex are worth a lot of money, is because the


other people around the table know that we are serious about gdtting it


better deal for Britain. Thhs week, a new freight line opened in Ipswich


part funded by Europe. Labotr likes to talk about the investment and the


economic benefits that comp`nies and communities have had in recdnt


years. I am very proud to bd on committees in the European


Parliament. They determine rules there about how many from Etropean


funding can come to businesses, councils, European `` universities


and so on in our region. And to ensure the vital transport routes,


that we have had investment. In fact, Monty topped it all up, the


region has done well when it comes to European funding. This is the


office where they look out for pots of money and help businesses and


MEPs to bid for it. We generally don't get as much as other regions


in England because we are rdlatively more affluent, however, we have made


some good investments, so wd have had ?300 million from the Etropean


social fund, but if we look at some of the other funds, we have been


very competitive. Looking at the research and innovation funding


?663 million so far. That h`s come to our universities, and ?47 million


of that has come to ethnic dnemies `` SNP.


Critics will point out that we have paid much more money that you


Brussels than we have ever received, but those who work here


CEU is more than just about money. They think they have done a good


job. It is now up to voters to decide.


As promised, here is Patrick Flynn, the lead candidate for UKIP in the


East. ?1.2 billion to this region over the last seven years from


Europe. That has to be a good thing. It is our own money back at


something like 30p in the pound If someone took ?30 out of your wallet


or purse and gave you a tenner back and asked you to be grateful and


told you what to spend it on, you might not think that is the most


fantastic deal in the world. But as we saw, our universities, transport


system, our councils and farmers, they are all getting money. We could


pay them much more ourselves if we were left with our own funds. The


point is, we are putting far more in. We are putting far more in.


You're a massive net donor to the European Union, and that is before


you even take account of thd cost of regulation and the downside of


membership. We are getting ` rotten deal. The business argument,


locally, Corby, had and I h`ve a base in Corby. They have warned


against leaving the EU, sayhng that you just throw up barriers to


business. If we have got thdse big manufacturers employing thotsands of


people, saying that, it is damaging to business, isn't it? I relember


when the boss of Nissan in Sunderland said he would certainly


leave the EU if we'd join the Eurozone. We didn't join thd euro


and we have doubled employmdnt there since then. We turn out products at


competitive prices and make money all over the world and that is not


dependent on our membership of the EU. Region `` the reasons some


companies here are getting foreign investment, now, leave the DU and


there is a risk that the investment drops away. There is no such risk.


There is a risk, because thdse foreign investors want to use


Britain as a gateway for access to Europe. Yes, we carry on tr`ding


with Europe. The trade minister in the last government, the boss of the


CBI for many years, Mr big business in Britain, he said that if we left


the EU within 24`hour is we would have our own free`trade deal with


it, and the reason why was because Germany in particular would insist


on it. We are the Eurozone's boost export market in the world. That if


you have access to Europe, xou will have to abide by the regulation If


anyone exports to another country, they have to abide by the export and


import relations to those countries. We import ?50 billion more from


Europe every year than we exported them. It is massively in thdir


interests. Let me go to Julhan Huppert. What about the assdrtion in


that film by our live demo LEP that Europe saved our economy? There is


no doubt that if we were to leave or even flirt with leaving it will hit


the recovery that is now happening. It will cost jobs and growth. When I


talk to companies around Calbridge, they are terrified by the idea of


pulling out. It will cause them in its problems. UKIP do like to


scaremongering. We have seen time again. Students can go on a Rasmus


schemes, have interactions, we innovate because of our connections


with Europe. Douglas Carswell. Patrick is absolutely right. The


idea that trade and investmdnt between Europe and the country


depends on EU manage it is `bsurd. Switzerland is four times more trade


her head with Europe from ottside the single market than we do from


within. The EU is a scam. The Euro Cross is in Brussels and thd


political elite are rules for their advantage. What is the diffdrence


between you and Patrick, thdn? Both of us agree we want to leavd the EU.


Why not join UKIP then? The way to withdraw from the EU is to lake sure


that David Cameron is in nulber ten after the next election, we have the


referendum he promises as in 20 7, which will give my constitudnts the


opportunity to vote to leavd. That is a clear pathway to exit. I think


it is urgent that we do it. Why do you think UKIP have such a strong


called in the East? Douglas is completely wrong about the Swiss


model. The Swiss themselves have pointed out that they struggle to


make deals. I was talking to a Swiss company recently who said they do


not have any peace, they can't lobby, but they are bound bx the


same rules. They have all of the disadvantages without any of the


benefits. Douglas also pointed out wide David Cameron and Ed Mhliband


could not talk in the debatd we had last week. The Labour and


Conservative editions are both to avoid talking about the isste. I


want to put 1.2 Patrick O'Flynn Wouldn't it be better if Caleron


could renegotiate powers with Europe, rather than coming out?


Renegotiation is a cruel deceit on the British public, right from the


Treaty on `` Treaty of Rome onwards, the aim has been the creation of a


superstate. Powers are not coming back, and if we do not like the


rules of the membership club, the honourable thing is to leavd. I want


to bring in Nick Clegg here, because he was fresh from this week's


televised debate, when he vhsited eight pharmaceuticals company in


Cambridge. It was there that I met with him to talk about his frank


exchange was Nigel Farage. H have to and how he thought he had pdrformed.


I ain't `` enjoyed enormously. When somebody like Nigel Farage, and many


populist politicians like that in other European countries, when they


come along and say, I can lhst all the problems off your shoulders


because it is somebody else's fault and we don't need to allow people to


come into our country and wd don't need to deal with all the fhddly


things easy, I can understand that if it very attractive thing to hear


will stop nevertheless, he hs convincing a lot of people hn this


region. The UKIP that stands at 21% here, and last year, 16 by`dlections


went UKIP. We now have over 50 councillors at county and dhstrict


level. They are a force to be reckoned with. Indeed, it is an


attractive but dangerous ard denied. Immigration is a central


issue here. Yeast has the hhghest number of EU immigrants in the


country, but at the same tile, as we have got that, and yes, thex are


contributing to the economy, there is pressure being put on schools, on


housing, on hospitals. Do you accept that there is that pressure? I


accept that, in any community in any part of the world where there is a


change of people moving in `nd out, you need to reflect that in the way


that you support schools and hospitals. That is exactly what we


do. But you have to look at the bigger picture. One in seven of the


businesses in this country were created by people who came from


elsewhere in the world, pay their taxes, play a constructive role and


create jobs. Thank you very much. Do you think your leader's debate


with Nigel Farage helped hil? It has raised the profile of Nigel Farage.


It may well have helped Nigdl Farage, but it helped the Lhberal


Democrats. It was an import`nt message. We have had myths `bout


Europe for decades with nobody stepping up to challenge thdm. I am


really proud that Nick Clegg did that. We saw Nigel Farage m`king


stuff up in the debate. That will work for a while, but what we need


now is not just Lib Dems making the factual case, but to see other


people. I wish the Conservatives and Labour party hats and courage to


stand up, but we know they have their own internal problems. It is


important to make the case `bout why we benefit from Europe. And one of


those benefits is that 60% of trade in this region is done with Europe.


Are you prepared to just throw that away? Aye of course not. We have


already established that tr`de with European countries does not depend


on membership of the EU. Yot picked up Nick Clegg there on the lassive


issue of open`door immigrathon. Until we get the ability to control


our borders again, until we can have both volume control and quality


control over immigration from two dozen or more neighbouring


countries, we will never give immigration a good name in this


country again. I also picked up Nick Clegg underwriting support for UKIP


in the East, and that is to the disadvantage of the Tories. Some


politicians argue that we should withdraw from the EU. I'm htgely


pleased by the developments. The fact is, there's only party that


will allow us to vote to le`ve, and that is the Conservatives. This


debate will run on and on. Gentleman, thank you very mtch.


We have also been looking at long`running political sagas in our


62nd round of political news this week.


The future of maternity unit at hospitals in Clacton and Harwich was


raised by Douglas Carswell this week. Last week, the managelent team


of the already troubled trust decided to ship units anywax, which


has caused anger and concern locally. While Julian Huppert was


concerned by the underfunding of mental health services in C`mbridge.


Health care in Cambridge has been underfunded for years, ment`l health


care particularly so. Controversial plans for a w`ste


incinerator at Kings Lynn h`ve been scrapped finally after years of


wrangling. A five`year battle, workers from a car park company in


Basildon have wind compensation from its parent company after thdir


pensions were hit by the firm going into administration.


Cambridge MP Andrew Lansley discussed how a woman Mr Kil for a


store manager when he was chopping at Tesco. I was the only person


there in a seat, and therefore I must be the manager and I would know


where she could find washing powder!


Douglas Carswell, hasn't had any of mistaken identity? I have ndver been


mistaken for anything other than me, I'm afraid to say. Cert`inly not


for a Liberal Democrat! And not mistaken for being a UKIP mdmber? We


shall have to see. Right! OK! Interesting reaction. Julian


Huppert, what about you? A tour guide at Westminster has a ginger


goatee and occasionally looks like the end we are sometimes confused


for each other. It can be qtite useful, because people tell me what


is going on in a way that the staff talk about and that they don't tell


the other MPs. Thank you both very much indeed. That is all for now.


You can keep in touch on our website. You can also follow links


from that website to our Political Editor's bog `` blog.


Next week, we are on at the later time of


Dobson. Tim Donovan is back in the chair next week. And with that, back


to Andrew. Welcome back and time now to get more from our panel. So they


can justify their meagre patents. This cost of living mantra will last


all the way until the election. Cannot? Ed Miliband leaves he is


onto something and for most of this Parliament, inflation has


outstripped wages. That is going to go the other way and wages will


rise, to which you say Ed Miliband has nothing to say. He says if you


think people are going to feel better in the blink of an eye, you


are a Conservative and do not understand the depth of this and he


is taking the message from a presidential election in America in


2012 and make Romney was ahead on some of the economic indicators but


Barack Obama was ahead on the key one, do you believe this candidate


will make your family's life better? The message that Ed Miliband


will try to say is the next election is about whose side are you on?


will try to say is the next election he believes Labour will be on the


side of more voters than conservatives. It would be crazy for


Labour not to talk about the cost of living because even if wages exceed


inflation next year, it is not as if voters will walk around feeling like


Imelda Marcos, they will still feel as if they were struggling and not


just compared... Retail sales are slowing? That is not the sign of


palpable disparity. Circumstances are better than three years ago but


not better than five years ago. The Reagan question will still be


employed, are you better off than at the last election? But things in


America were actually getting worse when he asked that. I covered that


election, that is why it resonated and they did get worse. The


election, that is why it resonated Ayatollah had quadrupled the price


of oil. This is based on things getting relatively better, after a


very long wait, so the cost of living critique will have to adapt?


It will but it gets out of a very sticky spot and the IFS says wages


will not outstrip inflation and by that time they can start talking


about other things, plans for the railways and tuition fees and at the


moment, everything is up for grabs. Labour know that every time they


talk about something they want to do, the question is, how do you pay


for it? They can talk about the economy and they don't have


substantial things to say. Is it true that Mr Iain Duncan Smith was


going to make a major announcement on benefit cheats? Or something to


do with that this morning? But he decided against it because of the


tobacco over Maria Miller? It would be very odd to go on to The Andrew


Marr Show to have a chat and see what he is having for lunch. Patrick


went from the Guardian said he was going to set out higher financial


penalty phase for providing inaccurate information in claims.


This is a bad day to do that, given that MP expenses are treated far


more lenient the than any one from Joe public. That would be


fascinating, if true. And he is making a very big speech on well for


tomorrow and this tweet from Patrick went at the Guardian, he has proper


sized on welfare matters and he tends to know what is going on. But


it would be deeply unfortunate if that was the message today. How can


he make a speech that has anything about cracking down on benefit


claimants? Not today but I am not sure tomorrow. Do you get the


impression that nobody in both main parties is very confident of winning


in 2015? I column last week said the result, the most likely result from


one year on is another hung parliament and which government


results from that depends on the mathematical specifics of whether


the Tories can do a deal as well as Labour, leaving everything in the


hands of Nick Clegg or whether one party can do a straightforward deal


but I do not detect any sense of exuberance or confidence in either


camp. And the Tories are still shooting themselves over losing the


boundary commission reforms because that was going to net them 20 seats


and they lost that because they messed up the House of Lords reform


and messed up the House of Lords reform


themselves. The former US President, George W Bush, has been a busy boy


and here at the Sunday Politics we thought you'd like to see the


results of his artistic endeavours. Time for the gallery.


I was a prize to find myself saying, some of these are not bad! --


surprised. Vladimir Putin? I like the one of Tony Blair but his early


ones of dogs, to be in the presence of the master is to see his portrait


of a Joanne Love. He is not of the Turner prize but I was surprised. He


gets the mask of Vladimir Putin also Tony Blair. I was impressed


that he did not allow personal or political grudges to influence his


artwork. Jacques Chirac, he comes out of this incredibly well! And


Angela Merkel comes out astonishingly well. Quite generous


as well. Tony Blair is the best one and the reason is he had the closest


relationship with them and he has talked about this portrait, saying


he was quite fond of him and you can see that. These are awful, they


would not get you an A-level but you must admire him to have the guts to


do this, and display them publicly! An A-level? Just doing joined up


numbers gets you that these days! What do you do when you retire? This


is less embarrassing than some of the other things people have done.


As good as Churchill? I don't know... No! Churchill was brilliant!


And on that! That's all for today. Tune into BBC Two every day at


lunchtime this week for the Daily Politics. And we'll be back at the


later time of 2:30pm next Sunday after the London Marathon. Remember,


if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.


Download Subtitles