06/04/2014 Sunday Politics East

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Pressure on Culture Secretary Maria

Miller mounts as the Tory press Tory voters and even a Tory Minister

turn against her. That's our top story.

The economic outlook is getting rosier. But Ed Miliband is having

none of it. The cost of living crisis is here to stay, says Labour.

Shadow Minister Caroline Flint joins us for the Sunday Interview.

And we bring you the Sunday Politics Gallery. But which former world

leader is behind these paintings of world

Here in the East, what has Durope ever done for us? We can reveal

surprising new figures showhng just how much

new London borough. A blue flint for regeneration or economic Armageddon?

And with me as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the

business - Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Nick Watt. Their tweets will be

as brief as a Cabinet Minister's apology.

A frenzy of betting on the Grand National yesterday. But there was

one book on which betting was suspended, and that was on the fate

of Culture Secretary Maria Miller, now the 2/1 favourite to be forced

out the Cabinet. She galloped through her apology to the Commons

on Thursday in just 32 seconds. But speed did her no favours. There s

been mounting pressure on her to resign ever since, especially from

Tories. And this weekend the Chairman of the Independent

Parliamentary Standards Authority, Ian Kennedy, said it's time MPs gave

away the power to decide how colleagues who break the rules are

punished. An inquiry into Maria Miller's expenses claims was launch

in 2012, following allegations he claimed ?90,000 to fund a house she

lived in part time with her parents. She had designated this her second

home. She was referred to the Parliamentary Standards

Commissioner, who recommended that she repay ?45,000. But this week the

Commons Standards Committee, comprising of MPs from all parties,

dismissed the complaint against Maria Miller and ordered her to

repay just ?5,800 for inadvertently overclaiming her merge claimants.

She was forced to apologise to the Commons for the legalistic way she

dealt with the complaints against her. But Tony Gallagher told the

Daily Politics on Friday: We got a third call from Craig Oliver who

pointed out, she is looking at Leveson and the call is badly timed.

I think if you are making a series of telephone calls to a newspaper

organisation investigating the conduct of a Cabinet Minister, that

comes close After that interview Craig Oliver

contacted us, saying there was no threat in anyway over Leveson. I

mead it clear at the time. Tony Gallagher is talking rubbish about

me, and you can use that. The Daily Telegraph have released a tape of a

phone call between Maria Miller s aid, Joanna Hindley, and a reporter

investigating her expenses claim. Joanna Hindley said:

Maria's obviously been having quite a lot of editor's meetings around

Leveson at the moment. So I'm just going to kind of flag up that

connection for you to think about. The Prime Minister is sticking by

his Culture Secretary, but this weekend's crescendo of criticism of

her presents him with a problem and he could be wishing Maria Miller

would just fall on her sword. Even over 80% of Tory voters in a Mail on

Sunday poll think she should go On the Andrew Marr Show, the Work and

Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, defended his colleague. I've

known her always to be a reasonable and honest person. But is she doing

the Government or her any good by staying in office at the moment do

you think? This is a matter the Prime Minister has to take

consideration of and she herself. My view generally is I'm supportive of

Maria, because if we are not careful we end one a witch-hunt of somebody.

And I'm joined now by the Conservative MP, Bob Stewart, and

the man in the white suit, former MP and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin

Bell. Welcome and anti-sleaze campaigner Martin

Stuart sturkts let me put this to you, a Conservative MP told this

programme, this is a quote, she has handled this appallingly. Downing

Street has acted like judge and jury, for Craig Oliver to get

involved is disastrous. She's been protected by the whips from the

start. What do you say to that? It's not great, is it? The fact of the

matter is the question one should ask is, did she deliberately try to

make money? Did she deliberately try to obscure ate? The answer is she

certainly didn't deliberately try to make money, in the system, which was

the old system, and with regard to obscure ago, I wasn't there, but

let's put it this way. She was going through a quasi-judicial process and

might have ended up in court, so she has a right to defend herself. Hold

on o you said she doesn't do it to make money, she remortgaged the

house a couple of times to earn more interest to us, the taxpayer, and

when interest rates went down she didn't reduce the amount she was

charging in expenses. Well, the point is the adjudicator said there

was ?45,000 she was owed. And then a committee, Standards Committee, said

actually it should be reduced. That was mainly MPs but there are three

lay members. Yes, but they don't have the vote. OK, fine, that is

where it is wrong and we've got to get it sorted. Let me put another

quote from our Conservative MP. He didn't want to be named. None of you

do at the moment. I'm being named. But you are backing her. George

young in cahoots. He's been leading on the Standards Committee to find

her innocent. The Standards Committee is unfit for purpose. I

think the Standards Committee should be revisited. I think the system is

still evolving. And I think actually we ought to have totally independent

judgment on MPs' pay and allowances. We haven't have not got there yet

and that is where it is wrong. Martin Bell, have MPs interfered in

the Maria Miller process and with the current Standards Commissioner

in the same way that they saw off a previous Commissioner they thought

was too independent? Andrew it is exactly the same. Yesterday I looked

at a diary entry I made for May 2000, I said, dreadful meeting

standards and privileges, they are playing party politics. One of them

told Elizabeth fill kin to her face the gossip in the tea room was she

had gone crazy. Nothing's changed. What this shows is most of all,

what's the committee for? If it is just going to rubber stamp what the

party wants and its mates, I don't see any point. But it hasn't rubber

stamped. It's changed it. Well, it has watered down. That's why we

should make it totally independent and it shouldn't be involved in the

House of Commons. It is plus plus ca change isn't it? MPs', scandal, and

MPs closing ranks for one of their own. Has the Commons learned

nothing? And this is after the expenses scandal, where everything

was out for everybody to see, you would think MPs would be careful.

This is before the expenses scandal. We are looking at an historical

event, during your time, Martin not mine. I'm clean on this. You

campaigned for him as an independent. I did, he was a good

friend of mine. And now you've joined the club. And now you are

defending Maria Miller? I'm defending someone who hasn't been

proved guilty of anything beyond the fact she was rather slow to come

forward with evidence. My point on that, is I understand that. MPs are

being lambasted the whole time these days. There were a heck of a lot of

them, Martin, who are utterly decent. She didn't try to make

money. We've just been through that. I don't think that's right. The jury

is out on that. What should have happened in the Miller case, Martin

Bell? I don't think there should be a committee on standards. I think

the Commissioner should make a report. There has been to be justice

for the MP complained against. Then the committee of the whole House can

consider it. But we are, the House of Commons, then as now is incapable

of regulating itself. That's been proving yet again. She made a

perfunctory apology. She threatened and instructed the Standards

Commissioner investigating her, and her special adviser linked expenses

to Leveson, when trying to stop the Daily Telegraph from publishing I

mean, is that the behaviour of a Cabinet Minister? Well, it's

probably not the behaviour of someone that's got time on their

hands. She's a very busy Cabinet Minister. Well, she had enough time

to write lots of letters to the Standards Commission ser. She felt

under such threat. She had the time. She had to make the time. Die know

the lady is not trying desperately to make money. I

the lady is not trying desperately that. The fact of the matter is

this was an old, old system, that we've tried to put right, or the

Commons has tried to put right. I agree that MPs shouldn't get

involved in this. Should we get rid of this committee? It serves no

purpose except to cause trouble The adjudicator has said that and it

should be the end of it. It shouldn't come back to the Commons.

Although her special adviser threatened them over Leveson she was

and is the Minister responsible for trying to introduce something like

Leveson and that is something a big chunk that the press doesn't want.

She is a target. It has a good record on this issue. It played wit

a straight bat. The facts aren't in dispute are they? Will she make it

to the next cabinet reshuffle and then go? Iain Duncan Smith said it

is a matter for the Prime Minister. In my view, as things stand, I

question did she deliberately want to make money? I don't think she

did. Should she go? No. Should she be reshuffled? I don't know.

Goodness me, you are asking someone who will never be reshuffled,

because he will never make it. I was only asking for your opinion, not

your ability to do it. This is a problem for Cameron isn't it? It is

a problem for Cameron. There is nothing wrong with returning to be

badge benches, as you know. Hear, hear. To that. Stick with me. Helen,

can she survive? Is I'm going out of the prediction game when I said

Clegg is going to win the date, so I owe Janan a tenner on that one.

Grant Shapps has supported her. She was ringed by Sir George young and

Jeremy Hunt... This is pretty devastating. On past form David

Cameron hates having to bounce people out of the cabinet. He will

want to keep Maria Miller until the summer reshuffle. This is a question

mark on whether she survive this is. This isn't damaging to the

Conservative or the Labour Party, it is damaging to everyone. This is

catastrophic damage to the entire political establishment. Every

single speech that David Cameron and Ed Miliband have given since 20 9,

talking about restoring trust, they can wipe them from their computers,

because voters are going to look that there and say, this lot haven't

learnt anything. They are giving perfunctory apologies and then you

have MPs sitting in judgment on MPs and rather than paying back ?45 000,

she pays back ?5,800 after MPs have been into it. Damage is huge. Just

getting rid of one Cabinet Minister, you will need to do more than that.

You will notice that Labour haven't made huge weather of this. No,

goodness me, they have their own skeletons. Exactly. The person who

has made hay out of this is Nigel Farage, who has not been backwards

in coming forward. He doesn't seem to care about skeletons. The Prime

Minister has be-Gunby backing her, but that's not popular even with

Tory voters. How does he get out of this? This is the problem for him.

Five years ago his reaction to the expenses scandal was seen by many

Tory backbenchers as excessive. They felt hung out to dry by a man who is

independently wealthy. To go from that to making a special exemption

to Maria Miller because it is politically suitable is more

incendiary and provocative. It is not just upsetting the voters and

the Daily Telegraph but a good number of people behind him. I think

they will get rid of her. I think the Government, to paraphrase

Churchill, will zoo the decent thing after exhausting all options, of the

European elections a reshuffle. The culture department has gone from a

baulk water in haul to one of the most politically sensational jobs

because of its proximity to the Leveson issue. She has to be

replaced by someone Lily skillful and substantial. Mr Cameron is not

short of smart women? Nikki Morgan, the education department, these are

absolutely outstanding women and the problem that the generation elected

in 2005, Maria Miller generation, there are some really good people

elected in 2010. You are not responsible for hacking into the

culture Department's Twitter account last night? I was out at the time!

They all say that! One so, Maria Miller is like a modern-day Robin

Hood... She robs the poor to help the rich. Which one of us has not

embezzled the taxpayer? I reckon it is the lady. You have the perfect

cover. We would not know how to would we? You cannot tweet from a

mobile device, can you? Play it safe. No, do something dramatic

Have lots of pledges. Have just a few pledges. Ah, there must be a

Labour policy review reaching its conclusion because everyone has some

free advice for the party about its message and the man delivering it.

Here's Adam. He is well liked by the public don't quite buy him as a

leader. The papers say he is in hock to the unions and the party has a

lead in the polls but it is not solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That

is what they said Winnie solid. Bartenders Neil Kinnock. That

the 1982 election. The whole country deserves better and we will work to

ensure that the day will come when with the Labour government, the

country will get better. Someone who was there can see some spooky

parallels. The important lesson from 1992 is it cannot rest on your

laurels and hope for the best, you cannot sit on a lead of seven points

because the election narrows that and you cannot rely on the

government not getting its act together because the Conservative

Party was well funded and organised, the double whammy posters, the tax

bombshell, but incredibly effective and the message was unified and they

beat us on the campaign. The lesson for Labour today is this lead will

evaporate quite possibly over the next few months and we might go into

the election behind in the polls. But Ed Miliband is getting

conflicting advice about how to avoid 1992 happening. Be bold, be

cautious and then, the idea that Labour can squeak into office with

just 35% of the vote, which worries some people. Each month, the Labour

Party meets around the country and last week, everybody spoke about the

dangers of this 35% strategy. They were increasingly unhappy and it is

very important that those people around the leader naturally have a

duty to protect him and they make sure he gets this message that while

there is total support for him, they do want this key year in the run-up

to the General Election to be putting out an alternative which we

can defend on the doorstep. The doorstep where Neil Kinnock made his

concession speech is crammed with Spanish back hackers. The old Labour

offices are no a budget hostel. Labour headquarters is down the road

and they are putting the finishing touches to a speech Ed Miliband will

give this week about the cost of living and I am told he will drop

hints about new policies in juicy areas like housing, low pay, growth

and devolving power. As for the charge that they are not radical

enough, his people say they want to be bold but they have to be credible

as well. They say that Labour is more united than it has ever been

but there has been some grumbling that the cost of living campaign is

not the same as a vision for the country. And that Ed Miliband was

not statesman-like enough at Prime Minister's Questions and one figure

who sat at the same table in the Neil Kinnock years summed it up like

this. Things are OK but it feels like we're playing for the draw

Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint joins me now for the Sunday

Interview. This 35% victory strategy, it does not sound very

ambitious? I am campaigning to win this election with a majority

government and everybody else around the table is also. But we want to go

to every corner of the country and win votes for Labour and win seats,

that is what we are working towards. To avoid last time, the coalition

bartering. But that 35% is a victory strategy so are you saying there is

no 35% strategy and that no one at the heart of Labour is not arguing

for this? We are working to win around the country and to win all of

those battle ground seats and we must have a strategy that appeals to

a cross-section of the public but within that, that broad group Queen

Elizabeth Olympic Park and. You could do that with 35% of the vote?

There is lots of polling and everyone looks at this about what we

need to do to get seats and we want to have a comprehensive majority at

the next election to win to have a comprehensive majority at

this country. Last week, we have been reading reports of splits in

the party over policy and on tactics, even strategy. A struggle

for control of the General Election manifesto, we are told. What are you

arguing over? I said on the committee and just listening to the

film before, it is about being radical but also credible and we are

talking about evolution and that is an important subject but we are also

united and to be honest, in 201 people were writing us off saying we

would turn on ourselves and that has not been the case. We are not

arguing about the fundamentals, we are discussing the policies that are

coming up with different colleagues and talking about how we can make

coming up with different colleagues sure they are presented to the

public and that is part of a process. That is a discussion, not

disagreement. The Financial Times, which is usually pretty fair,

reports a battle between Ed Miliband's radical instincts and the

more business fiscal conservatism of Ed Balls. What side are you on? I am

for radical change, I am for energy and I believe strongly we must be

formed the market and people might portray that as anti-business but

this is about more competition and transparency and others coming into

this market so our policy on this is radical, not excepting the status

quo. It is also for business. Opinion polls show that few people

regard Ed Miliband as by Minister material -- Prime Minister material.

That has been true since he became leader. And in some cases, they have

been getting worse. Why is that Opinion polls say certain things

about the personalities of leaders, David Cameron is not great either.

And they were not great when he was in opposition. At this stage, he was

getting 49% as Prime Minister real material and Ed Miliband, 19. -

Prime Minister material. When you look at certain questions that the

public is asked about who you think you would trust about being fair in

terms of policy towards Britain who understands the cost of living

crisis, they very much identify with Ed Miliband. We are ahead in the

polls. Ed Miliband has made that happen. We have one more

councillors, we have been running in by-elections and we have held this

government over the barrel over six months on energy prices. That is to

do with his leadership. The more that voters save him, the less they

seem convinced. In 2011, he had been leader for one year, and only 1 %

regarded him as weird, by 2014, that was 41%. Look at that! Look at that

weirdness! What people need is to know where the Labour Party stands

on fundamental issues. And in those areas, particularly the cost of

living and fairness and people being concerned that we are entering into

a period where people will be worse for the first time ever at the end

of the Parliament, these things are important and Ed Miliband is part of

our success. Definitely. I think this is ridiculous, to be fair, he

is not a politician that says, I am dying with the Arctic monkeys, I

know who is the number one. He did not play that game. -- down. He is

not either there to portray himself as someone who was with the

children, I know everything about popular culture. His authenticity is

the most important thing. People do not think he is authentic, unless

they think we were at is authentic. Is it true that his staff applaud

they think we were at is authentic. him when he comes back after giving

even a mediocre speech? I have never heard that. I have never heard about

him being applauded. And I am pleased to applaud him with he makes

speeches, I have given him a standing ovation. You have to do

that because the cameras are rolling! No, he made a good speech.

Five minutes without notes. It took a long time to memorise I don't

blame him! The cost of living. Focusing on that, it has paid

dividends. But inflation is falling and perhaps collapsing, unemployment

is falling faster than anybody thought, as we can see. Wages are

rising, soon faster than prices Retail sales are booming, people

have got money in their pockets Isn't the cost of living crisis

narrative running out of steam? I do not think so and I should say that I

welcome any sign of positive changes in the economy, if anybody gets a

job in Doncaster, I am pleased by the end of this Parliament families

will be over ?900 worse off because of tax and benefit changes and the

working person is ?1600 worse off and it is the first government since

the 1870s where people will be at the end of the Parliament. We

believe the government made wrong choices that lead the rich off at

the expense of those on middle and lower incomes. -- let the rich. The

average family ?794 worse off from tax and benefit changes. That has

been backed up. They are those figures. But he has skewed these

figures by including the richest, where the fall in tax and the

penalty they pay is highest. If you take away the richest, it is nowhere

near that figure. Everybody agrees and even the government and

knowledges that at the end of their tenure in Parliament, people will be

worse off. 350,000 extra people who would desperately like full-time

work who are working part-time and 1 million young people unemployed and

the reason the cost of living has a residence is people feel that. I was

in a supermarket and at Doncaster and someone summed this up, he said

I work hard and at the end of the week, beyond paying bills, I have

got nothing else. If you take away the top 10% who are losing over

?600,000, the average loss comes down to around ?400, less than half

of what you claim. That figure is totally misleading. These are the

figures from the IFS. It still shows... Whatever way you shape

this, people will still be worse off, families worse off because of

these changes to tax and benefits and working people because wages

have not kept up with prices. Your energy portfolio, you back the

enquiry into the big six companies and you intend to go ahead with the

price freeze and reconfigure the market even before it reports. If

you win, this is a waste of time? Whilst we have had this process

before the announcement, we always feel if it goes that way, there

might be areas we have not thought of that the enquiry will also draw

attention to that we might want to add on. You are right, our basic

reforms for the new regulator, to separate generation supply, we will

pursue that. What happens if this report concludes that your plans are

not correct? You will still go ahead? I don't think so. Actually,

if you look at the report that Ofgem produced, some of the issues Labour

has been drawing attention to like vertical integration, they cover

that. I was asking about the Competition Commission? The report

last week is a result of working together and I think it is clearly

accepted in this sector, look at SSE last week, they will separate the

business. We are pushing at the open door. It has already pulled out of

gas. So it follows if you freeze energy prices across the market it

might be the right thing to do but there will be a cost in terms of

jobs and investment, correct? Well, I met with SSE last weekand the

chief executive and talked about these issues. The jobs changes are

partly about them looking at how they could be more efficient as a

company. On offshore wind that wasn't really to do with the price

freeze. That was more to do with issues around confidence in that

area and therefore willing to put the money into it, as well as

technical issues as well But there'll be job losses. Is that a

price worth paying? We believe the reason we are having a price freeze

is these companies have been overcharging customers and haven't

been investing in their organisations and making them more

efficient. I do not believe a price freeze is linked to job losses.

These companies do need to be more efficient. Goal for all of us is

realising the fantastic opportunity for more jobs and growth from an

energy sector that has certainty going forward. That's what Labour

will deliver. Caroline Flint, thank you.

It's 1130 and you're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to

viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland.

Coming up Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics

in the East. Coming up, we dxplain why David Cameron has been waxing

lyrical about our region. E`st Anglia is one of the fastest`growing

parts of our country with world`class companies and

universities. The ball starts rolling in this year's EU elections.

We ask, what has been EU done for us? And Nick Clegg is back hn the

debate over Europe, making the case that we are all better off thanks to

the EU. I want more people to listen to the facts and not the fiction,

and appreciate that whatever its imperfections, it is better for us,

it creates jobs and prosperhty and strength in numbers.

First, high guests, Lib Dem MP for Cambridge Julian Huppert, and

Douglas Carswell of the Conservatives. I would like to speak

about this week's promise of a new era for rail passengers in the East.

?2 billion is being spent in the next five years overhauling services

in the region. Work is alre`dy underway to link Cambridge `nd

Peterborough to the South coast with a tunnel under London. One LP argued

the case for faster trains to Norwich at the end use. Will ye

agree with me that East Anglia needs faster and better rail

infrastructure? I pay tribute to the honourable lady and others for the

work they are doing on the Norwich task force. This is an important

project. I welcome the interest shown by business leaders and local

authorities. East Anglia is one of the fastest whirring parts of our

country with world`class universities. I look forward to the

task force report. Meetings this week in Essex to back

the business campaign behind Norwich in 90. Canada knocked growth? It is

key. Chloe Smith has done an important job in spearheading this

campaign. Norwich in 90 also means Colchester in 40. That will be great

news for Essex. Railways arteries. We need them to flow properly to

bring growth and jobs. Is about linked to the South coast `` good

news about links to the South coast. Are these small strategic

investments the way forward rather than huge schemes? We need `s much

as we can get. HST will makd a huge difference for capacity on the West

Coast, but we also need improvements locally. Ideally, we would get a

connection out to Oxford. If you can connect regional towns, that has

huge potential for growth. White investment in transport links is one

of the plus points put forw`rd by the pro`European lobby. This week,

the UK Independence Party l`unched its local campaign for the Duropean

elections, while party leaddrs Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage traddd blows

in a live television debate. What exactly have our Euro end is issued

for us at the end of their five years? It certainly secured a love

of funding for the East. Figures obtained by this programme secured

that `` revealed that more than ?1 billion has come our way. I wonder

if that is something that UKIP's candidate for the region, P`trick

Flynn, will be celebrating. We went to Brussels to find out why our MEPs

feel they have done a good job. It is nearly election time, and in

Brussels, there has been an end of term feeling this week as the party

is nearly election time, and in Brussels, there has been an end of

term feeling this week as the parties prepare and win over a

sceptical public. Europe has always been a divisive issue, parthcularly

in our country. There are some who think that what goes on herd is

completely irrelevant and ott of touch with ordinary life and that

those who were elected here in 009 have wasted five years of their

lives. Perhaps not surprisingly most of our MEPs feel it has been

worthwhile. Lib Dems, by far the most Euro friendly of the p`rties

here, believe the EU has done nothing less than save the dconomy.

Their MEP for the East says it is only by coordinating rescues and

regulations that we have made it through the recession. With all our

problems and the complexitids, the European Union has survived. We have

almost, not quite, fixed thd banking system. But how much of that is down

to the EU and how much is down to government being sensible and

working together? I don't think that if we had left it to governlent on

their own, this would have happened. For the Conservatives, it is all

about stopping Europe from having too much of a say in our lives. New

girl Vicky Ford, here visithng fishermen in Kings Lynn, talks about

her fight against red tape, banking regulations and winning back power

from Brussels. We have said and continued to say that our

relationship with Europe nedds to change. The fishing industrx is one

in `` area where we have already brought back powers from Brtssels.

This is irresponsible and dangerous! The reason I am winning

those negotiations, and thex are worth a lot of money, is because the

other people around the table know that we are serious about gdtting it

better deal for Britain. Thhs week, a new freight line opened in Ipswich

part funded by Europe. Labotr likes to talk about the investment and the

economic benefits that comp`nies and communities have had in recdnt

years. I am very proud to bd on committees in the European

Parliament. They determine rules there about how many from Etropean

funding can come to businesses, councils, European `` universities

and so on in our region. And to ensure the vital transport routes,

that we have had investment. In fact, Monty topped it all up, the

region has done well when it comes to European funding. This is the

office where they look out for pots of money and help businesses and

MEPs to bid for it. We generally don't get as much as other regions

in England because we are rdlatively more affluent, however, we have made

some good investments, so wd have had ?300 million from the Etropean

social fund, but if we look at some of the other funds, we have been

very competitive. Looking at the research and innovation funding

?663 million so far. That h`s come to our universities, and ?47 million

of that has come to ethnic dnemies `` SNP.

Critics will point out that we have paid much more money that you

Brussels than we have ever received, but those who work here

CEU is more than just about money. They think they have done a good

job. It is now up to voters to decide.

As promised, here is Patrick Flynn, the lead candidate for UKIP in the

East. ?1.2 billion to this region over the last seven years from

Europe. That has to be a good thing. It is our own money back at

something like 30p in the pound If someone took ?30 out of your wallet

or purse and gave you a tenner back and asked you to be grateful and

told you what to spend it on, you might not think that is the most

fantastic deal in the world. But as we saw, our universities, transport

system, our councils and farmers, they are all getting money. We could

pay them much more ourselves if we were left with our own funds. The

point is, we are putting far more in. We are putting far more in.

You're a massive net donor to the European Union, and that is before

you even take account of thd cost of regulation and the downside of

membership. We are getting ` rotten deal. The business argument,

locally, Corby, had and I h`ve a base in Corby. They have warned

against leaving the EU, sayhng that you just throw up barriers to

business. If we have got thdse big manufacturers employing thotsands of

people, saying that, it is damaging to business, isn't it? I relember

when the boss of Nissan in Sunderland said he would certainly

leave the EU if we'd join the Eurozone. We didn't join thd euro

and we have doubled employmdnt there since then. We turn out products at

competitive prices and make money all over the world and that is not

dependent on our membership of the EU. Region `` the reasons some

companies here are getting foreign investment, now, leave the DU and

there is a risk that the investment drops away. There is no such risk.

There is a risk, because thdse foreign investors want to use

Britain as a gateway for access to Europe. Yes, we carry on tr`ding

with Europe. The trade minister in the last government, the boss of the

CBI for many years, Mr big business in Britain, he said that if we left

the EU within 24`hour is we would have our own free`trade deal with

it, and the reason why was because Germany in particular would insist

on it. We are the Eurozone's boost export market in the world. That if

you have access to Europe, xou will have to abide by the regulation If

anyone exports to another country, they have to abide by the export and

import relations to those countries. We import ?50 billion more from

Europe every year than we exported them. It is massively in thdir

interests. Let me go to Julhan Huppert. What about the assdrtion in

that film by our live demo LEP that Europe saved our economy? There is

no doubt that if we were to leave or even flirt with leaving it will hit

the recovery that is now happening. It will cost jobs and growth. When I

talk to companies around Calbridge, they are terrified by the idea of

pulling out. It will cause them in its problems. UKIP do like to

scaremongering. We have seen time again. Students can go on a Rasmus

schemes, have interactions, we innovate because of our connections

with Europe. Douglas Carswell. Patrick is absolutely right. The

idea that trade and investmdnt between Europe and the country

depends on EU manage it is `bsurd. Switzerland is four times more trade

her head with Europe from ottside the single market than we do from

within. The EU is a scam. The Euro Cross is in Brussels and thd

political elite are rules for their advantage. What is the diffdrence

between you and Patrick, thdn? Both of us agree we want to leavd the EU.

Why not join UKIP then? The way to withdraw from the EU is to lake sure

that David Cameron is in nulber ten after the next election, we have the

referendum he promises as in 20 7, which will give my constitudnts the

opportunity to vote to leavd. That is a clear pathway to exit. I think

it is urgent that we do it. Why do you think UKIP have such a strong

called in the East? Douglas is completely wrong about the Swiss

model. The Swiss themselves have pointed out that they struggle to

make deals. I was talking to a Swiss company recently who said they do

not have any peace, they can't lobby, but they are bound bx the

same rules. They have all of the disadvantages without any of the

benefits. Douglas also pointed out wide David Cameron and Ed Mhliband

could not talk in the debatd we had last week. The Labour and

Conservative editions are both to avoid talking about the isste. I

want to put 1.2 Patrick O'Flynn Wouldn't it be better if Caleron

could renegotiate powers with Europe, rather than coming out?

Renegotiation is a cruel deceit on the British public, right from the

Treaty on `` Treaty of Rome onwards, the aim has been the creation of a

superstate. Powers are not coming back, and if we do not like the

rules of the membership club, the honourable thing is to leavd. I want

to bring in Nick Clegg here, because he was fresh from this week's

televised debate, when he vhsited eight pharmaceuticals company in

Cambridge. It was there that I met with him to talk about his frank

exchange was Nigel Farage. H have to and how he thought he had pdrformed.

I ain't `` enjoyed enormously. When somebody like Nigel Farage, and many

populist politicians like that in other European countries, when they

come along and say, I can lhst all the problems off your shoulders

because it is somebody else's fault and we don't need to allow people to

come into our country and wd don't need to deal with all the fhddly

things easy, I can understand that if it very attractive thing to hear

will stop nevertheless, he hs convincing a lot of people hn this

region. The UKIP that stands at 21% here, and last year, 16 by`dlections

went UKIP. We now have over 50 councillors at county and dhstrict

level. They are a force to be reckoned with. Indeed, it is an

attractive but dangerous ard denied. Immigration is a central

issue here. Yeast has the hhghest number of EU immigrants in the

country, but at the same tile, as we have got that, and yes, thex are

contributing to the economy, there is pressure being put on schools, on

housing, on hospitals. Do you accept that there is that pressure? I

accept that, in any community in any part of the world where there is a

change of people moving in `nd out, you need to reflect that in the way

that you support schools and hospitals. That is exactly what we

do. But you have to look at the bigger picture. One in seven of the

businesses in this country were created by people who came from

elsewhere in the world, pay their taxes, play a constructive role and

create jobs. Thank you very much. Do you think your leader's debate

with Nigel Farage helped hil? It has raised the profile of Nigel Farage.

It may well have helped Nigdl Farage, but it helped the Lhberal

Democrats. It was an import`nt message. We have had myths `bout

Europe for decades with nobody stepping up to challenge thdm. I am

really proud that Nick Clegg did that. We saw Nigel Farage m`king

stuff up in the debate. That will work for a while, but what we need

now is not just Lib Dems making the factual case, but to see other

people. I wish the Conservatives and Labour party hats and courage to

stand up, but we know they have their own internal problems. It is

important to make the case `bout why we benefit from Europe. And one of

those benefits is that 60% of trade in this region is done with Europe.

Are you prepared to just throw that away? Aye of course not. We have

already established that tr`de with European countries does not depend

on membership of the EU. Yot picked up Nick Clegg there on the lassive

issue of open`door immigrathon. Until we get the ability to control

our borders again, until we can have both volume control and quality

control over immigration from two dozen or more neighbouring

countries, we will never give immigration a good name in this

country again. I also picked up Nick Clegg underwriting support for UKIP

in the East, and that is to the disadvantage of the Tories. Some

politicians argue that we should withdraw from the EU. I'm htgely

pleased by the developments. The fact is, there's only party that

will allow us to vote to le`ve, and that is the Conservatives. This

debate will run on and on. Gentleman, thank you very mtch.

We have also been looking at long`running political sagas in our

62nd round of political news this week.

The future of maternity unit at hospitals in Clacton and Harwich was

raised by Douglas Carswell this week. Last week, the managelent team

of the already troubled trust decided to ship units anywax, which

has caused anger and concern locally. While Julian Huppert was

concerned by the underfunding of mental health services in C`mbridge.

Health care in Cambridge has been underfunded for years, ment`l health

care particularly so. Controversial plans for a w`ste

incinerator at Kings Lynn h`ve been scrapped finally after years of

wrangling. A five`year battle, workers from a car park company in

Basildon have wind compensation from its parent company after thdir

pensions were hit by the firm going into administration.

Cambridge MP Andrew Lansley discussed how a woman Mr Kil for a

store manager when he was chopping at Tesco. I was the only person

there in a seat, and therefore I must be the manager and I would know

where she could find washing powder!

Douglas Carswell, hasn't had any of mistaken identity? I have ndver been

mistaken for anything other than me, I'm afraid to say. Cert`inly not

for a Liberal Democrat! And not mistaken for being a UKIP mdmber? We

shall have to see. Right! OK! Interesting reaction. Julian

Huppert, what about you? A tour guide at Westminster has a ginger

goatee and occasionally looks like the end we are sometimes confused

for each other. It can be qtite useful, because people tell me what

is going on in a way that the staff talk about and that they don't tell

the other MPs. Thank you both very much indeed. That is all for now.

You can keep in touch on our website. You can also follow links

from that website to our Political Editor's bog `` blog.

Next week, we are on at the later time of

Dobson. Tim Donovan is back in the chair next week. And with that, back

to Andrew. Welcome back and time now to get more from our panel. So they

can justify their meagre patents. This cost of living mantra will last

all the way until the election. Cannot? Ed Miliband leaves he is

onto something and for most of this Parliament, inflation has

outstripped wages. That is going to go the other way and wages will

rise, to which you say Ed Miliband has nothing to say. He says if you

think people are going to feel better in the blink of an eye, you

are a Conservative and do not understand the depth of this and he

is taking the message from a presidential election in America in

2012 and make Romney was ahead on some of the economic indicators but

Barack Obama was ahead on the key one, do you believe this candidate

will make your family's life better? The message that Ed Miliband

will try to say is the next election is about whose side are you on?

will try to say is the next election he believes Labour will be on the

side of more voters than conservatives. It would be crazy for

Labour not to talk about the cost of living because even if wages exceed

inflation next year, it is not as if voters will walk around feeling like

Imelda Marcos, they will still feel as if they were struggling and not

just compared... Retail sales are slowing? That is not the sign of

palpable disparity. Circumstances are better than three years ago but

not better than five years ago. The Reagan question will still be

employed, are you better off than at the last election? But things in

America were actually getting worse when he asked that. I covered that

election, that is why it resonated and they did get worse. The

election, that is why it resonated Ayatollah had quadrupled the price

of oil. This is based on things getting relatively better, after a

very long wait, so the cost of living critique will have to adapt?

It will but it gets out of a very sticky spot and the IFS says wages

will not outstrip inflation and by that time they can start talking

about other things, plans for the railways and tuition fees and at the

moment, everything is up for grabs. Labour know that every time they

talk about something they want to do, the question is, how do you pay

for it? They can talk about the economy and they don't have

substantial things to say. Is it true that Mr Iain Duncan Smith was

going to make a major announcement on benefit cheats? Or something to

do with that this morning? But he decided against it because of the

tobacco over Maria Miller? It would be very odd to go on to The Andrew

Marr Show to have a chat and see what he is having for lunch. Patrick

went from the Guardian said he was going to set out higher financial

penalty phase for providing inaccurate information in claims.

This is a bad day to do that, given that MP expenses are treated far

more lenient the than any one from Joe public. That would be

fascinating, if true. And he is making a very big speech on well for

tomorrow and this tweet from Patrick went at the Guardian, he has proper

sized on welfare matters and he tends to know what is going on. But

it would be deeply unfortunate if that was the message today. How can

he make a speech that has anything about cracking down on benefit

claimants? Not today but I am not sure tomorrow. Do you get the

impression that nobody in both main parties is very confident of winning

in 2015? I column last week said the result, the most likely result from

one year on is another hung parliament and which government

results from that depends on the mathematical specifics of whether

the Tories can do a deal as well as Labour, leaving everything in the

hands of Nick Clegg or whether one party can do a straightforward deal

but I do not detect any sense of exuberance or confidence in either

camp. And the Tories are still shooting themselves over losing the

boundary commission reforms because that was going to net them 20 seats

and they lost that because they messed up the House of Lords reform

and messed up the House of Lords reform

themselves. The former US President, George W Bush, has been a busy boy

and here at the Sunday Politics we thought you'd like to see the

results of his artistic endeavours. Time for the gallery.

I was a prize to find myself saying, some of these are not bad! --

surprised. Vladimir Putin? I like the one of Tony Blair but his early

ones of dogs, to be in the presence of the master is to see his portrait

of a Joanne Love. He is not of the Turner prize but I was surprised. He

gets the mask of Vladimir Putin also Tony Blair. I was impressed

that he did not allow personal or political grudges to influence his

artwork. Jacques Chirac, he comes out of this incredibly well! And

Angela Merkel comes out astonishingly well. Quite generous

as well. Tony Blair is the best one and the reason is he had the closest

relationship with them and he has talked about this portrait, saying

he was quite fond of him and you can see that. These are awful, they

would not get you an A-level but you must admire him to have the guts to

do this, and display them publicly! An A-level? Just doing joined up

numbers gets you that these days! What do you do when you retire? This

is less embarrassing than some of the other things people have done.

As good as Churchill? I don't know... No! Churchill was brilliant!

And on that! That's all for today. Tune into BBC Two every day at

lunchtime this week for the Daily Politics. And we'll be back at the

later time of 2:30pm next Sunday after the London Marathon. Remember,

if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.