18/05/2014 Sunday Politics East


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Good morning. Welcome to The Sunday Politics. Just four days to go until


election day, and be warned, coming to a street near you, a party leader


on a charm offensive. They all want your vote in the European elections


on Thursday, and in the local elections across England, too. Polls


are all over the place this morning. Your vote could make a


difference. This man is 11 points ahead in one poll, he has promised


an earthquake on Thursday, but what then? Our Adam has braved the


campaign trail, he has been asking all the big


campaign trail, he has been asking Here in the East: We are in Luton


discussing the European elections, where a panel of candidates will


join me to answer questions from our audience here today ahead


elections, and the 50th anniversary of the first elections to London's


32 boroughs. I am in the studio, with those who think they have got


all the big answers. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So, it


is the European elections for everybody on Thursday, local


elections for England and a bit of Northern Ireland as well. They are


the last elections before the big one, the 2015 general election. Some


say that these European and local elections will not be much of a


pointer to how the big one goes. But that will not stop political


commentators and party gurus from examining them closely. So, what is


at stake? Thursday May the 22nd is local elections and European


Parliament elections. These local results should be known


by Friday. In the European elections, all 751 members of the


European Parliament will be elected across Europe. 73 MEPs will be let


it by people living in the UK. But the results will not be announced


until Sunday night, after voting has closed throughout the 28 member


states of the EU. Nick Watt, we are in a position where the polls this


morning cannot tell us what the outcome is going to be on Thursday,


and the general election is still wide open - we really are in


uncharted territory? Also it is difficult to know where we are,


because there is that ComRes poll which shows an 11 point lead amongst


those certain to vote for UKIP, and another poll in the Sunday Times


showing that it is a much more slender lead for UKIP. But we know


that will they win? We do not know, but clearly they will unsettle the


major parties. Fall or five months ago, we assumed that the UKIP


success would create panic in the Conservative Party, but that has


been factored into David Cameron's share price. The Conservative Party


is remarkably relaxed at the moment, and I wonder whether this time next


week, when we have the results, whether the two political leaders


who will be under pressure will be Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg. Nick


Clegg, because they could go down from 12 MEPs to maybe just three or


four. And Ed Miliband, because, one year before a general election, he


should be showing that he is a significant, potent electoral


force. So, they should all be worried about UKIP, but whereas a


couple of months ago, we would all have said David Cameron was the one


who should be worried, now, we are saying it is Mr Miliband and Mr


Clegg? And of the two, I think it is Ed Miliband who should be worried.


The Lib Dems are an incredibly resilient party. He described his


own party as cockroaches, and incredible resilience! I think the


Lib Dems are ready to take this one, but I think Labour are really wobbly


at the moment. What UKIP has done, to England, it means that England


has caught up with Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, England


now has a four party system, which makes it all the more uncertain what


the outcome will be? Yes, but whether UKIP finish first or second,


it will be the biggest insurgent event since the European elections


began in 1979. People talk about the Greens in 1989, but I think they


finished third. Were UKIP to win a national election or even finish


runner-up, it would be truly historic. It is reflecting on


something which is happening across Europe, pianist in Italy, Holland,


France and in this country. -- populist parties. And it makes first


past the post look absolutely ridiculous. You could be in a


situation after the next general election where Labour do not get the


largest percentage of the vote but they get the largest number of


seats. First past the post works fairly if there are only two


parties, but when there are four... We will talk more about that. Let's


speak now to Suzanne Evans of UKIP. She is at Westminster. Now, UKIP


claims that there is going to be an earthquake in British politics on


Thursday. Suppose there is, what does UKIP then need to do to become


a more grown-up, proper party? I think UKIP has very much become a


grown-up, proper party. We have been around for 20 years. What we are


going to be doing after the European elections, if we do cause this


earthquake, and the polls are looking like we are going to, is we


will be firmly looking towards 2015, getting our general election


manifesto out, to keep those votes on board from the euro elections and


putting forward common-sense policies which really will bring


Britain back to the people. We want to be able to hold the balance of


power come the general election. If we can do that then there will be a


referendum. That will be our aim. You say you are a more grown-up


party, but when you look at the stream of gaffes and controversies


created by your candidates and members, I will not go into them


this morning, at the very least, I would suggest you are needing a more


robust system of selection? You could say the same for the other


three parties, who have been around for a lot longer. They have got


nothing like the embarrassments you had. I am afraid they had. Just this


week, since Monday, we have had 17 Liberal Democrat, labour or


Conservative councillors either arrested, charged or convicted on


all manner of offences. In addition we have had 13 who have been


involved in some kind of racist, sexist or homophobic incident. I am


not saying I am proud of any of that. The whole of politics probably


needs to be cleaned up, but I certainly do not think we are any


worse than the other parties, who have much greater resources than we


do. Those other parties are even putting people in power who they


know have got criminal convictions or who have previously belonged to


far right, fascist parties like the BNP. Can you continue to be a


one-man band? The only time any other UKIP petition makes the


headlines is when they say something loony or objectionable? We have a


huge amount of talent in this party. We have fantastic spokespeople


across the patch, the huge amount of expertise in the party. Inevitably


the media focuses on Nigel Farage, who is a fantastic, charismatic


leader. But believe me, there is a huge amount of talent. When we get


our MEPs into power after the European elections, we will see many


more of them I think on television and radio and in the newspapers. We


are not a one-man band. Who runs your party? The party is run by


Nigel Farage, our leader. But he spends all his time running between


television studios and in and out of the pub! You would be amazed how


much he does, and of course we have a National Executive Committee, like


the other parties. So who runs it? The National Executive Committee, in


conjunction with Nigel Farage, the MEPs, the spokespeople, it is a


joint effort. Your Local Government Minister Stosur is, if you vote


UKIP, you go on to pledge that your councillors will not toe the party


line, how does that work? -- your local government manifesto says...


On the main policies, they will toe the party line, because that is


obviously what people will be voting for. It is no good putting forward a


manifesto like the Lib Dems did on 2010 and going back on it. We have


put forward a lot of positive -- a lot of policies at local government


level, and those we will stick to. But when it comes to individual,


local issues, say, a particular development or the closure of a


school, whatever, UKIP then will vote what they think is in the best


interests of the people in the borough, and not according to any


party whip system. This plays out really well on the doorstep, I find.


People do not want their politicians to be in the pockets of their


party, putting party first, ahead of the people. You want people to vote


to leave the European Union in a referendum - have you published a


road map as to what would then happen? Yes, there will be a road


map. The Lisbon Treaty for the first time gave us that exit opportunity.


Have you published a road map? I am not the legal expert on this but


there are ways in which you can come out of Europe fairly quickly. There


is a longer you all as well. But have you published any of that


detail? Not that I have read. But certainly there are ways to do it.


We are the sixth strongest world economy, I think we are in a strong


position having left the EU to be able to negotiate a very good trade


deal with the European Union. It is what people voted for in 1975. What


would be our exact status? It would be I think what people voted for


back in 1975. An independent, sovereign country in a trade


agreement, a very positive and valuable trade agreement with the


European Union. I voted in that referendum, I remember it well, 1975


involved the free movement of people 's... That is something which I do


not think UKIP or the country wants. 70% of people now are deeply


concerned about immigration. So it would not be 1975, then? Andrew, it


sounds like you are complaining that we might have something which is


better than 1975. I am just trying to find out what it is! That sounds


like positive to me. We will negotiate a trade deal and all


manner of issues, whatever is best for the British people. We want our


sovereignty back, we want our country back. Would you be upset if


a bunch of Rumanian men moved in next door to you? Where I live, I am


surrounded by one and two-bedroom flats. If ten Rumanian men moved in


next door to me, I would want to ask questions. That is very different


from say a Robinho family moving in next door. I would think, are they


being ripped off, are they up to no good or are they perhaps being


trafficked by a gang master? So I think it would be of concern, and I


do not think there is anything wrong with that, it is a humanitarian


approach. That would be different from a family moving in who were


learning to speak English, who wanted to contribute to the British


economy. Maybe if your boss is watching, he will now have found out


how to answer that question. Now, what is more glamorous, 24


hours in the life of a counter-terrorism agent, or 12 hours


in the life of Adam Fleming, on the campaign trail? I will let you make


up your own mind. So, it is eight o'clock in the morning here in


Westminster. Today's challenge is, how much campaigning for the local


and European elections can we fit into 12 hours? See you back here at


eight o'clock tonight. Wish me luck. With my cameraman and


producer, we went to Thurrock in Essex first. I got a very, very warm


welcome from Abe buoyant UKIP. They have never had this much attention.


One candidate's misdemeanour ends up on the front page. But you have got


Lib Dem candidates being convicted of racially aggravated assault, and


that was not on the front pages of the newspapers. Houdini is fine but


it must be applied evenly. Have you had to sack Thurrock UKIP members


for dodgy tweets or anything? Oh, God, no. Next we head to meet a top


Tory in a different area. We are heading to Eastbourne. But stuck in


traffic. We are going to miss William Hague. We got there, just in


time, to ask the really big questions. David Cameron went to


Nando De Colo last week, where are you going to go for lunch? I do not


even get time for lunch. I think something in the back of the car. We


will go down the street and see what people have got to say. Even the


Foreign Secretary has depressed the flesh at election time? Even the


Foreign Secretary meets real people. The message William Hague impresses


upon everyone he meets is that the Tories are the only party offering a


referendum on our membership of the EU. He's off for lunch in the limo.


I've got five minutes by the beach. This is the best thing about


elections, lunch. Do you want one? And chips are weirdly relevant at


our next stop - the Green Party battle bus which is parked in


Ashford in Kent. What is special about this vehicle? It runs from


chip fat oil so it is more friendly to the environment. But boss was


boiling. The next stop is Gillingham to see Labour. Labour have just


hired Barack Obama's election guru David Axelrod to help them craft


their message. What does David Axelrod know about the people who


live on the street? I know the local details but you handle those. Ed


Miliband and his party have had to handle a few dodgy opinion polls


lately, prompting some leadership speculation from one activist. Who


is your favourite Labour politician? Ed Balls. Back in the car and we're


flagging. Final stop, Southwark in south London. We are in the right


place, this is Simon Hughes' Lib Dem taxi. The Lib Dems are campaigning


as the party of in. But are they in trouble? Your party president said


the party would be wiped out and lose its MEPs. Is that helpful? If


he did say that, then no, that's not terribly helpful. And let's not


forget, every London council is having elections too. I have 40


minutes to get back to the office in Westminster, which calls for


something drastic, like this. After 212 miles, but will be make it home


for eight? We have made it, aided, 12 hours of pure politics. Happy


elections, everyone. Adam Fleming impersonating Jack


Bauer! Natalie Bennett is in our studio, welcome back. The Greens


used to be the upcoming party in Britain, now it is UKIP. What went


wrong? We are in a very good place, looking towards travelling our MEPs


and we could be the fourth largest group in Parliament after these


elections. More and more people are recognising we are the only party


calling for real change, the only party saying we have two stop making


poor, disadvantaged young people over the mistakes bankers. You have


made a strong pro-environment stands synonymous with the politics of the


left, why have you done that? Why should an equal minded Conservative


vote for you? I think one of the reasons why many Conservatives, I


met them in Chester where they are stopping coalbed methane


exploration, lots of Conservatives are looking to vote for us beyond


issues like fracking and the Green belt, and many of them are concerned


about the fact we haven't reformed the banks. This morning we had the


Bank of England chief coming out and saying we have a huge house price


bubble and people recognise that many of the parties offering the


same are not working. And yet the polls show that the hardline


greenery is not winning. We are looking to travel our number of MEPs


and we have people recognising that we have to change the way our


economic 's, politics and society works so that everyone has


sufficient resources within the limits of the one planet because one


planet is all we have got. You want all electricity to be generated by


renewables, is that right? So where would the electricity come from on


days when the wind is not blowing? Most of the electricity is there. It


is mature. We need to be hooked into a European wide grid, we need a


smart grid that will allow for demand to be adjusted according to


supply. So we would take French nuclear power, would we? We need to


work with a partnership across Europe. We are being left behind and


we are losing opportunities. 50% of German renewable electricity is


owned by communities and it stays within communities, rather than the


big six energy companies. So you have still got to take the French


nuclear power. What we need to do... Nuclear is a dead technology,


going down in the developed world. At the moment the Government


proposes the most expensive proposal for Britain and yet the last two


plans took 17 years to bring online, way too slow for what we need now.


We know what the Green council would be like if you were to win more


seats on Thursday because you run Brighton. Your own Green MP joined


strikers against the council, the local Greens are at each other's


throats, a council ridden with factionalism, attempts to raise


council tax to 5%, attempted coups against the local Green leader by


other Greens and you have had to bring in mediators. If you look at


the life of people in Brighton and Hove, it has seen its visitor


numbers go up by 50,000, it has become the top seaside resort in


Britain, we have seen GCSE results going up significantly. These are


the things affecting people's lives in Brighton and Hove. 60% of


Brighton and Hove people think life is better and the Greens. We have a


debate to be had from next is better and the Greens. We have a


election and perhaps we can have that debate next


election and perhaps we can have up Brighton as the way the city


should be run? We have made huge progress, we have found money to be


brought into the city to improve Green spaces. I was on the big ride


in London yesterday, and we need to change our roads so they worked the


people as well as cars. Which side of the picket line were you on in


Brighton? With Caroline Lucas? I was in London, travelling around as I do


most days. From Penzance to Newcastle and many areas in between.


Probably a good move. Thank you. I'm joined now by the Conservative MP,


the Lib Dem MP Simon Hughes and Sajid Javid. We want to see a


European Union resolutely focused on the single market, free trade, and


only we can bring about that change. Labour and Lib Dems are happy with


the status quo, in fact they would like more integration, and a UKIP


party can not deliver the change. Hilary Benn, at this stage positions


usually romp home in European elections and no party has gone on


to form a government without winning the European elections first. Now it


suggests you could become second, you haven't handled UKIP very well


either. There is a lot of alienation from politics around, globalisation


has left some behind and people are concerned about that but UKIP will


not provide the answer. Nigel Farage only talks about Europe. We are to


hear it would not be in the interests of British people to come


out of Europe. We do want a season change in Europe, for example we


want longer periods when new member states come in. We don't think child


tax credits should be paid to children not living in the UK, but


Nigel Farage is also proposing to charge us when we see the GP, to


halve maternity pay, and he wants a flat tax. UKIP is not the answer to


the problems we face and we will continue to campaign as we have done


to show that we are putting forward policies on energy prices, and in


the end that is what people will look for. Simon Hughes, you will be


lucky to come forth. The voters decide these things. Really? I never


knew that. My response to the UKIP question is that they get support


because they have never been in power, they are never likely. A bit


like the way you used to never get into power. I accept that, but now


we are in government. The reality is that laws made in Brussels, we make


together by agreement, and it is the case from the Commons figures that


only seven out of 100 laws are made in Brussels. Actually they have been


shown not to be the only ones. 14 out of 100. If we were to come out


of Europe, we would seriously disadvantage our economics and the


jobs... 3 million jobs depend on the European Union. If the Conservatives


comes third or even a poor second, it will show that people don't


really trust your promise about European referendum. They have been


there before, they don't trust you. What we have already shown, despite


being in coalition with Liberal Democrats, we have shown progress on


Europe, we have vetoed a European treaty when people said we


wouldn't, we have cut the European budget which is something Liberal


Democrats and Labour MEPs voted against, we cut it by ?8 billion.


But overall we are still paying more. We have still cut it. We have


taken Britain out of the bailout fund that Labour signed us up to. We


are now going to take that same energy to Europe and renegotiate our


relationship and let the British people decide in a referendum. Why


has Ed Miliband become such a liability for your party? Even your


own MPs are speaking out against him. If you look at the polls, we


have been in the lead almost consistently. The voters will


decide. Ed Miliband is a decent man, but what really marks him out is


that he is thinking about the problems the country faces. Simon


and Sajid both support the bedroom tax, we will scrap it. Ed Miliband


said the energy market doesn't work for consumers, we will freeze energy


prices while we change the system. So why are his ratings even lower


than Nick Clegg's? They will be voted for next year in the general


election, and if I were David Cameron I would ask myself this


question - the economy is recovering, why is it that David


Cameron and the Conservatives have been behind in the polls? Because in


the end the big choice in British politics is between the two parties


that say, if we sought the deficit everything is fine, and Labour who


say that there are things about this country, the insecurity that has


given rise for support for UKIP, and we are the ones talking about doing


something about zero hours contracts. The more your leader


bangs on about Europe, the worse your poll ratings get. He is out of


the kilter with British people. It may not be a majority of people who


think that we ought to stay in the European Union, but when you speak


to people about it, people understand that we are better in


them out. In the elections on Thursday, that is not about who runs


Britain, that is for next year. In terms of the local councils, we have


battles on the ground, like in my community, where we are trying to


take it back from the Labour Party. Affordable housing has just not been


delivered. We have delivered that in office and we had admitted to that.


-- we are committed to that. Labour have actually demolished homes. So,


people want more affordable homes. One issue which is behind people's


antipathy towards immigrants is that they cannot get the affordable


housing they need. We as a government have delivered more


affordable housing in this Parliament -170,000 new properties


earning and more, over the next three years. That does not work out


that very many per year. Overall housing is a lot less than it was in


2006. Let me tell you, under the Labour government, we lost nearly


half a million affordable homes. Fewer built than under Mrs Thatcher


or under the coalition. What is your last ditch message to the millions


of Tory voters thinking of voting UKIP on Thursday? First, what I


would say is, Ed Miliband also said that we should not tackle the


deficit, it was not a priority. As a result of our resolute focus, we now


have the fastest growing economy in the developed world, and more people


employed than ever before. I am sure you will have more chance to say


that at the general election, what is the answer to my question? We


need a Europe which is focused on free trade and the single market.


Labour and Lib Dems are happy with the status quo, we are not. We are


the only party which can bring about change, UKIP cannot bring about any


change. Hilary Benn, why not have a referendum on Europe? If you think


like Nigel Farage that you should get out of Europe, I do not agree


with him, because Britain's future lies in Europe. My message simply


would be, vote for a party which wants to tackle insecurity in the


workplace, to give more security to the 9 million people who are now


privately renting, build more homes. What Simon has just said about the


coalition's housing record, it has been appalling, the lowest level


since Stanley Baldwin was Prime Minister. With Labour, you have got


a party which will freeze energy prices, more childcare, policies


which directly address the problems which people face. I think the


public will realise that. UKIP offers absolutely nothing at all for


the future of the country. You used to be in favour of a referendum? We


are in favour, we voted for one, we have legislated for one. The next


time there is a change between Britain and Europe, in the


relationship, there will be a referendum. We have supported that.


We voted for it. You would obviously want to vote yes in any referendum.


We would. But if you had one now, it would be for coming out or staying


in, and you are going to wait until there is another step son shall


transfer of powers to Brussels, and then say to people, either vote for


this substantial transfer or vote to leave! Of course they will vote to


leave! Yes, we are not natural partners with the Conservatives, but


we do not want to be distracted at the moment by a referendum in the


future in relation to Europe. Because what we have done is built


our own economy back. That has been the priority. We do not want


artificial priorities. The Tories want an artificial date plucked out


of the air for their own advantage. We say, let's get on with being


positive about being in Europe, and many people on the doorstep


absolutely understand that. Yesterday, the Energy Minister said


that he thought the party would be willing to campaign for a British


withdrawal from the EU if there was not a successful negotiation, a


successful repatriation, do you agree with that? First of all, I am


very optimistic... I got that I am going into these negotiations with


confidence but Michael Fallon is one of your ministerial colleagues, he


said that if we cannot get a deal on substantial repatriation, then the


party should be willing to campaign for a British withdrawal - do you


agree? My view is that I am confident we will get a deal, and


then we will put it to the British people. But you will have to take a


line. If you do not get substantial repatriations, will you side with


Michael Fallon all with the Prime Minister, who seems to want to stay


in regardless? I may only have been in politics for four years, but I am


not going to ask that kind of hypothetical question. Every


question I ask is hypothetical, that is the fascination of the programme!


I go into these negotiations with complete confidence. If you look at


our track record, it suggests we will be successful. Hilary Benn,


what is the difference between your attitude and that of the Lib Dems


towards a referendum? We have been very clear that if it is proposed at


sometime in the future, further powers would be transferred, then,


we would put that to the British people in a referendum. That is the


Lib Dem position. This is our position, which I am planing to you.


It would be an in-out referendum. We would only agree to a transfer of


powers if we thought that it was in the interest of Britain. But we


believe that Britain's place remains and should remain in Europe, for


economic reasons. But we also want to see some changes in our


relationship with Europe, and electing Labour MEPs on Thursday


will be a way of boosting that argument. In what way is everything


you have just said not entirely sell my must with the Lib Dem position? I


am not worried about that. -- entirely synonymous. It is the


dividing line between us and UKIP, because they somehow believe that


Britain leaving the European Union would be good for our economy. Truth


is, it would be really bad, because so many jobs depend on being part of


a large market in an increasingly globalised world. I have got one


more question for you on the locals. We seem to have lost our connection


with Leeds. What is the single most important reason that people should


vote for you in the local election? Because taxpayers' money is just


that, it does not belong to the politicians, and we can do a lot


more and get more for less with taxpayers money. If you look at


Conservative councils up and down the country, most of them have not


been raising council tax, they have been getting more for less, and that


is what people deserve. We will produce the maximum amount possible


of affordable housing to meet the housing needs of Britain, instead of


the richest minority having flats and houses that nobody can afford.


We seem to have lost Hilary Benn. I can answer for him. I will do it -


he would certainly say, vote Labour. You are watching The Sunday


Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who now leave us for


Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up in Scotland, who now leave us for


Hello and welcome to the University of Bedfordshire's Luton campus,


where these European candidates will answer questions from our audience


about the EU and its influence on our lives. For Labour, we have


Richard Howitt, a long`standing MEP. For the UK Independence Party,


Patrick O'Flynn, who's the former political editor of the Daily


Express. For the Conservatives, MEP Vicky Ford. She is the spokesman on


the European Industry and Research Committee. The Green Party candidate


is Dr Rupert Read, a lecturer at the University of East Anglia. And for


the Lib Dems, MEP Andrew Duff, a committed federalist and respected


author of many books and pamphlets on the EU. All five of them the


leading candidates for their parties. Ladies and gentlemen, our




. Our first question is from John


Scully. If we were to leave Europe, what


will remain of our credibility with regard to future commerce?


First of all I see myself as an English and British candidate in


this election and I believe our relationship with Europe must change


but it must be a change that suits British businesses and local


businesses and British jobs. A lot of people say to me that we voted to


go into a common market but not a federal Europe, we want to see


powers come back to Britain, we want a negotiation that works for


business as well. This is a complex negotiation, but it is change that


we need and then we want to put that to you in a referendum and give you


a choice, so you will then see the decision on in and out but after we


have delivered AB negotiation. Richard Howitt. She did not answer


the question, there are 336,000 jobs and the east of England dependent


upon our membership of the European Union, the Bex `` the business


organisation of Britain, the CBI, says that families are thousands of


pounds better off because of our trade within the EU. The Nissan


plant created thousands of jobs. Some jobs could be lost to forward


elsewhere in the country. The bosses of those companies have said that if


Britain was to leave the European Union, they would leave Britain and


that is why David Cameron and UKIP are playing a dangerous game in


sleepwalking this country into an exit from Europe. What Richard said


was correct but I would add to further things. We must remember


that the European Union has kept the peace amongst its member states for


65 years, that is an extraordinary achievement. We must remember that


most of our good environmental legislation comes from the EU, I am


talking about our rivers and beaches being clean and not covered in


sewage, that was of it was in the 1970s before we joined the EU. It is


not enough to talk about the trade benefits which are important, two


other important points, the EU is undoubtedly a good thing, it needs


reform but on balance it is better being in than out. Patrick O'Flynn.


I will begin on a pedantic note. Norman is talking about leaving


Europe, geographical and that is impossible, we are talking about


withdrawing from a federal superstate. Talking about the CBI,


the most respected head and former head of the CBI is Digby Jones and


he has said that Britain would have a trade deal in place 24 hours after


leaving the EU because the German manufacturing sector would assist


upon it and he is correct about that because yes, Europe an important


market, it is important for our exports and it is not membership of


you that those jobs depend upon, it is the ability to export. We are the


biggest market in the world for the eurozone, bigger than China or


America or any other country. We explored about ?100 million worth of


goods each year, we import about 150 million, so they can trade without


being a member of a political union and there is absolutely no doubt


about that, we would also have the benefit of being able to sing our


own trade deals with the faster growing countries of the


Commonwealth. Andrew Duff. Can I say how nice it is to see Patrick and


the region, this is your first trip here I believe. I have made many


public meetings, have you? Let us move on, thank you. Regarding trade,


it would be severely damaged if we were to leave. Employment is


imperilled and you do not have to believe us, speak to the CBI, the


Federation of Small Businesses and so forth, but the idea that the


union is static that it is some sort of monolithic thing stuck in the


past, I think it actually has to be addressed. It is changing all of the


time. It is expanding the strength of the single market and indeed the


size of that single market, and, of course, at present it has embarked


upon a hugely important trade negotiation with the USA, which is


of huge advantage to our economy. Trade apparently has been falling


within the EU. Look at this 2013 statistics. It was 42% back in 2008.


How worried are you at the prospects, John Scully? I am quite


worried because I do not want Britain to be cut adrift of Europe


with regard to trade. As Ruppert mentioned, things that have been put


in place as regards the policy and Green Party policy, it is important


that if we stay within Europe that we are fully present as a pause to


partially present. Let's take our next question, from


Anca Tinica, a Romanian student. My question would be ` why Romanians


and Bulgarians are blamed for coming to work in the UK if we have this


right in the EU, and what can be done to change this negative


perception? Thank you for that question.


Firstly, Patrick O'Flynn. No one should blame Romanians or Bulgarians


for coming to Britain, they have the right to do so under our current


arrangements, the point is, is it in our interest to have an open door


immigration system with two dozen neighbouring countries and over 400


million people, UKIP says it is not and all of the polls suggest that


the public agree with us that it is not a good idea. What would help in


terms of giving immigration a good name in this country again is a


proper work permit system with a British National Party to rest could


be the thing where we judge who comes into our country, whether they


have high skills or are filling the gap in skills and they comply to our


core values. If we have a system like that which we can only do


outside of the U, I believe race relations will improve remarkably.


But these people have a right to be here. That is correct. What about


the negative perception, turning that around? The negative


perceptions will not turn around whilst we have is open door and


there is pressure on social housing. Pressure on transport. But as your


leader doing enough to dispel those negative perceptions? It is his job


to make them less bad! Why did your leaders say the other day that


people have a right to be concerned if Romanians moved next door to


them? You were there, you tried to stop him seeing that. I ought to be


able to answer. Hang on, I should be able to answer. There are


differential figures and Romania has been susceptible to organised crime


on a high level, it is true in this this this ticks. Rupert Read, could


you answer that question. It is a great question and I am concerned


about it. If anyone said that people have a concern about Dewes or Irish


people or black people living next door, everyone would condemn that


statement. Patrick O'Flynn knows that is incorrect. He tried to stop


Nigel Farage from seeing that. That is absolutely not true. You tried to


stop the interview. The interview was running overtime. You tried to


stop the interview, admit it. Gentlemen, let us get back to the


question. Thank you both for the moment. Vicky Ford, please answer.


The whole issue of immigration has complicated and we went through a


period under the Labour government where it was very uncontrolled and


the Labour government have admitted that and that means that in certain


parts of the east of England we have seen very significant migration and


very significant pressures on local services. In other areas, we also


have world`class scientist, world`class research, people from


all over the world are coming together and making a huge


difference and discovering new Cure 's for diseases, new ways to live


and ways of solving the energy problems. We must make sure we stay


part of that global community, but at the same time control the impact


of immigration. I believe that we must have controls upon immigration,


we have put some in place already and have started to make sure that


you cannot come only for benefits so that people cannot get this


misperception that people only come here for benefits, close those doors


and reform so that you cannot have another new country entering without


changes on the freedom of movement and restrictions and then we will be


able to move former `` forward calmly. Freedom of movement of


people within the single market is a very key and precious principle. It


defines us as Europeans that we can move and live abroad and the


European Union. Millions of Brits have decided to opt for that. The


second point, employers in the east of England are crying out to employ


Bulgarians, Romanians, people from Poland and so forth. There is a


shortage of labour supply in this region and as the economic recovery


starts to boom, which I hope it will and I expect it will, the problem of


the labour supply will be even more acute. Very briefly, please. With


respect to Dr Rupert Read, I do not believe that Nigel Farage was being


xenophobic, I think he was being racist and marching to the beat of


the nationalist drum, that is a disgrace. There has never been open


door immigration, this is simply said to make people feel fearful.


The Labour Party believes in controlled immigration and we will


put controls when they get back into government. I am sorry about the


negative perception, I am a patriotic man and we have always


given a warm welcome and courteous welcome to people that visit us and


the embarrassment for UKIP is that they put out leaflets saying that 29


million Bulgarians and Romanians would come to Britain. One estimate


that there were only 30 people, another said they are even fewer now


than there were in January! The shame is regarding UKIP as a party


and the fact that one of their members resigned last week and said


they were being deliberately racist. The Labour Party believes that if


you are fair to everyone, and stop people being brought in to undercut


the jobs and wages, that is in the interest of everyone. We will move


on. We want to talk about farming. Our next question is from William


Dickinson. In the East of England we farm some


of the UK's most productive farmland, but thanks to decisions


taken in Brussels, we're losing tools in our armoury to deal with


crop pests and diseases. What will you do, in the next European


Parliament, to help ensure decisions taken in Europe are based on sound


science, with policies that promote rather than preclude innovation in


food and farming? William is asking about sound


science and better protection for our farmers and their interests.


Richard Howitt, let us start with you. I have backed the technology


Centre in Cambridge with European funding that has created the Glass


that is helping small farmers in the region. I believe the common


agricultural policy reform should have gone further and I have backed


our farmers in this region in terms of getting a fair price for their


mocks at supermarkets. And making sure that they get payments back to


them that with `` that were withdrawn on a European level. But


we should also make sure there is greater help for environmental


stewardship. We must also talk about the quality of food. After the horse


meat scandal when the Tories prevented us from giving honest


labelling where the source of our meat comes from, we would have to


overcome that and make it and the interest of British farmers. 5.7


million loaves of bread are produced in the East, two thirds of sugar


beet and one third of UK potatoes. What can we do to protect farmers? I


want Britain to be in control of agricultural standards, pesticides


and regulations. That is the number one think that UKIP can offer. What


we also have is that we have trapped subsidising inefficient farmers who


farm on a smaller scale in many European countries, so we are in the


absorbed condition where we can support our own farmers more and


still reduce food prices for British consumers and that we can do outside


of the Common Agricultural Policy and outside of the European Union


and that is the number`1 issue with agriculture and food in this


country, we'll Richard goes on about food banks where the Common


Agricultural Policy is not helping. Farmers tend to grumble. I think we


have fantastic farming and the east of England, which is competitive and


always pushing the advances of science. I certainly think that we


must follow the signs `` the silence as you have proposed, but we have to


experiment because science means experiment and rear experimenting at


present with the bands upon pesticides near lakes which


encourage biodiversity. I would've peeled to our agricultural comment


unity to play their part and to support the fantastic research and


development that we have in the east of England. Vicky Ford. The east of


England as the breadbasket of the country and we also have some world


leading scientists. We must listen to those scientists because they are


doing fantastic work in terms of overcoming drought and disease and


that is what will help us to feed the world's growing population and


with the growing food prices. Before we rush into some sort of a ban in


Europe on the latest chemical solution which the Green Party and


the Labour Party tend to do, we must listen to the voice of science and


to work with scientists to make sure that people understand what is being


used. A like Fried potato, which means you do not need to spray your


crops 50 times are here, what could be wrong with that? We must look at


each individual crop and decide what we want and which ones we do not and


that's how we will the world. And the Green Party we are all in favour


of sound science and that is why be back climate science. Unlike the


Tories. Sound science does not mean backing genetically modified crops


and it does not mean taking the gene from a fish and sticking it into a


tomato recklessly, it does not mean throwing more pesticides and


herbicides onto the land. We must build an agricultural policy fit for


the 21st`century that will reduce the amount of artificial inputs and


move us towards a system of improved aggro forestry and systems that will


work in the long term. William Dickinson, what are your own


concerns? From my point of view, the scary thing is that if we cannot


produce food in this country that we will import it and most other


countries in the world are using new crop technologies and the public


will be exposed to reading that new technology, will we in Europe and


build a wall around the farmers telling them that they cannot use


it. Time for one more question. We are short of time.


Our next question is from Bronwen Philpott.


A lot of the employment legislation that has a big impact due to cost


and complexity on small and medium`sized businesses when they


employ people is from the EU. What is your view on that? Very brief


comment on red tape, Andrew Duff. I would agree that sometimes


employment law from Brussels or from Whitehall which is just as bad can


be very intrusive and can be a burden for industry, both small and


big. It is essential that as we go forward into the next phase of


reform of the European Union that we are tougher on the bigger things and


smaller on the smaller things. Richard Howitt. Everyone appears to


be against red tape but people must look at the health and safety, think


about that tragedy locally where people died. People will ask why


were health and safety not better put into place. One in five workers


in the east of England feel insecure in the workplace and we must get rid


of those zero`hour contracts and make sure that the minimum wage is


properly enforced. Rupert Read. The level playing field is not present.


It must be more friendly to smaller businesses. We believe that small is


beautiful. Rolling back the red tape is critical for small businesses. We


have identified the ten most burdensome and I want to unwind that


red tape but sadly the Green Party and the Labour Party are blocking is


doing that and Europe. Patrick O'Flynn, finally. The European Union


as the club of big business. Some of that big business is like red tape


because they can't afford the compliance teams and the lobbyists,


we must get out of this feeling organisation and get back to having


our enterprising spirit and bring jobs back to the UK. Bronwen


Philpott, what do you think? My concern is that a lot of small


companies particularly in terms of maternity, the impact upon small


businesses as salt important. We are sadly out of time. Thank you Thanks


to all of you and, of course, there are some other parties fighting


these European elections in the Eastern region.


Here they are on screen now. We are back next Sunday morning and we will


have all of the results from the local elections. We will see you




thank you very much indeed. Back to Andrew.


Welcome back. Politicians always insist in public that opinion polls


do not matter. Even though their own parties each spend a small fortune


on private polling. If they take them seriously, so do we! Let's take


a closer look. First up, how the votes might fall for the European


Parliament. Back in January, Labour looked set to finish first. By


April, UKIP had edged into the lead. According to today's poles, Nigel


Farage's party is either down into place, or has soared ahead. Both


cannot be right. It is a similar picture for the general election.


Labour's lead has been cut back by the Tories. This is the most


unpredictable general election in a long time. It keeps us in a job! We


are joined now by the managing director of the pollsters, ComRes.


Welcome to the programme. While the polls all over the place on the


European election? We are trying to do two things, figure out who is


going to be voting, and how they are going to be voting. I think a lot of


the polls are predicting quite high turnout. They are looking at more


than 50% turnout, which is simply not can be the case. So, what we are


than 50% turnout, which is simply those who are ten out of ten,


certain to vote, and it really benefits UKIP, it benefits them


democratically, demographically, with the older age profile, who are


going to vote. Another poll gives them only a one-point lead, so, come


the results coming out, you are either going to look away ahead of


your time or very stupid? Absolutely. That is the job of


pollsters. Somebody has to be wrong. Ultimately, we were spot on in 2009,


and we are hoping to be spot on on Thursday. So you were spot on on


voting intention in 2009? Yes. What does the indications of what is now


a four party system mean, does it change the nature of your methods?


It changes how we look at the polls, how we look at what is going to


happen as a result of the vote. Predicting the number of seats is


becoming more and more important and more difficult to do, because


distribution is becoming fundamentally important. Because it


is for parties? That's right. . Does the polling give us any evidence to


try to settle the matter of whether UKIP votes are coming from? Yes. We


know that over 50% of the UKIP vote share is coming from the


Conservatives come people who did vote Conservative in 2010. But


actually, the other 50% is coming from a wide range of different


sources. And what we are seeing is that ultimately, every single


establishment party should be worried, because the people voting


for UKIP are the people that really do not like politics at the moment.


They are wanting people to speak on their behalf, so it affects all of


them. There is evidence that there is now a move of some working-class


Labour votes to UKIP as well? That's right. That is what I mean about the


establishment vote, the people that they can really reach out to, who


are really interested in things like immigration, in those single issues,


where they do not feel the political parties of the mainstream are


representing them. I would suggest that for the European elections,


where turnout is low, ComRes may be right or wrong, but likely to vote


would seem to be the yardstick. I would say that is true in almost any


European election apart from this one. Because there has been so much


attention on this election, because of UKIP and the probably do that


they will win second, I wonder whether it is now such a big topic


of conversation, the subject of Nigel Farage, that people who would


otherwise talk a good game about voting UKIP but do not show up on


the day are this time around likely to show up on the day? I am not


entirely convinced by that. We underestimate how many people are


completely disengaged by politics. I think it is very easy for us to


think, and I agree that by any other standards, this is the most coverage


a European election has ever had in Britain, but still, most people


don't care. Instinctively, Nick, you would think, if you are a UKIP


photo, if you have made that choice, then you would probably be more


motivated to go and vote on Thursday? I am sure that is right.


Also, the publicity that Nigel Farage has had. And also, as


Catherine says, people are attracted to UKIP because they are annoyed


with the established parties. If you have made that big decision to do


it, then you will probably do it. The really big question which we


want to take out of these elections is, how many people who have left


the established parties, left the Conservative Party, in these


elections on Thursday, how many of them will stick with UKIP and how


many of them will go back? Nigel Farage is very confident, he is


saying that 60% of those certain to vote UKIP will stick with UKIP. If


that happens, it is a real problem for Downing Street. Downing Street


are basically saying that many Tories will have a fling with UKIP


but they will return to the marital home next year. You do two sorts of


polling, for the European elections, and for the general election, which


may be more relevant to the local election voters, but what is the


answer to his question? We do not know at the moment. We when you ask


people how likely they are to vote in the same way, they are thinking


that actually, I am going to vote in exactly the same way at the general


election, they are not going to say, I am going to split my vote. I think


the key point is, what happens in the Euros. We have a fixed term


parliament, which means momentum is crucial. What comes out of the Euros


will be a statement about how well UKIP can last for the next year, or


indeed, if it comes second, it is about momentum and feeling about the


parties. I do not think we can tell yet. If UKIP does well, there could


be some leadership crises we will have to cover. I want to look at a


couple of the headlines on the screen. Now, it seems, as you can


see from the Mail, Mr Miliband could be in some trouble. The Labour MP


for Rochdale talking about the mantra of misery which is Labour's


policy is not going down well. And there are also rumbles about, if Mr


Clegg comes fourth or even fifth in the European elections, that there


will be a plot to remove him. There are not many names behind that plot


yet, but Vince Cable does get an honourable mention! Not that he is


plotting, but he could take over! If Labour comes a poor second, and the


Tories are third, and Nick Clegg is nowhere, there is a


Clevedon-Miliband agenda, isn't there? It will be very different for


each man. The worst thing that could happen to Labour is if Nick Clegg


loses his job, because he will be replaced by somebody substantially


to the left of him, you would have to assume, someone like Tim Farron.


I think it is unlikely that David Laws Danny Alexander, the two


prominent figures who are to the right of him, would win the


leadership. If it is someone who is quite a way to the left of Nick


Clegg, then some voters might find the party a more attractive


proposition. Which is why the Tories want to hold on to Nick Clegg.


Absolutely. But I think you are right, there is a really big bubble


for Ed Miliband here. The second big thing, I do not know if you saw the


photo opportunity this week, Boris Johnson strolling through a garden


with David Cameron, they got off the chew one-stop early just to


appreciate the spring sunshine. But where are the shadow cabinet? I hear


rumours of a politician called Yvette Cooper, but I do not know


what she has been up to recently. And Rachel Reeves and Andy Burnham,


all of these big hitters are not lashing themselves to the mast of


the Labour election campaign. And some of these big hitters are


immensely talented, Rachel Reeves, Chuka Umunna, these guys are really


talented. You get the impression that they are watching this as you


say and biding their time. Ed Miliband has bet the farm on this


calculation that there has been this rupture between the rise in wages


and the rise in inflation, although that is now beginning to slow. The


calculation he is making is that in the 2012 presidential election, Mitt


Romney was ahead on many of the economic indicators, but Barack


Obama won because he said, I am on your side. He has bet the farm on


that. But there is a big difference between Miliband and Barack Obama,


which is that Barack Obama was elected in 2008 after the crash, so


everything he did was about rescue. The problem for Ed Miliband and Ed


Balls is that they were in power when the crash happened, so it is


difficult to make that comparison. Labour is nip and tuck with the


Tories, or ahead by a small amount - Mr Miliband's personal ratings are


much worse than what David Cameron's were at the same stage in


the political cycle, does that matter? I think personal ratings do


matter, particularly if things like Ukraine gained more prominence in


the media. It is a question of who you want as your statesman. But on


the economy specifically, actually, the economic ratings in terms of


confidence in the leader has not changed. That has not changed for


years now. It is pretty stable. Actually, the narrowing of the polls


could be due to the usual narrowing about 12 months out from the


election, and Labour really need to use the momentum. Thank you for


that. Plenty to talk about after you all go to the polls on Thursday.


There will be tonnes of election coverage and results on the BBC,


Thursday night, Friday, and of course, Sunday night, when the


European results come out. Daily Politics is back on BBC Two tomorrow


lunchtime. I will be back here next Sunday at 11 o'clock as usual for


The Sunday Politics. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is The Sunday


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