08/06/2014 Sunday Politics East


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David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers


over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.


And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.


We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live


Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?


David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist


But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?


Here's to the quarter of a million votes.


And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with


The unusual alliances are bding success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.


The unusual alliances are being formed in


Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?


And with me our panel of top political journalists,


who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee


and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme


This morning's political news is dominated


by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and


The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior


Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling


The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of


investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham


where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken


Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office


was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.


He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.


In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,


"why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people


Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the


An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.


Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's


Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning,


this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.


There's been a disciplinary matter within the Government,


which the Prime Minister has dealt with in a very firm, clear way.


There will be discipline in the Government.


The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.


The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s


put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.


Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she


has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael


Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during


13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an


act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website


and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of


conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a


leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a


vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In


the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.


She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is


interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse


differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is


tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.


Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the


politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is


deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but


replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in


ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that


ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the


Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with


Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick


Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and


criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the


Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is


fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What


separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The


view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic


extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is


criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour


government introduced to do with the previous Labour government


introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people


and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous


home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in


the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has


used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the


swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed


those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove


would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech


the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2011


Munich Security conference in 2 11 when the Prime Minister talked about


warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system


is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.


Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.


Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of


their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents


in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political


infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the


resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs


to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.


There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for


four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact


that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on


for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much


stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations


like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the


Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the


leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an


overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We


want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate


themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which


makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to


be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted


curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an


education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender


segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender


segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling


Where you have a state education system, which is about gender


equality between boys and girls, and equality between boys and girls and


there is an unofficial policy of gender segregation, that is


unacceptable. We should not be tarring communities with the same


brush in terms of radicalisation. We do want to see a successful,


multicultural education. Two years ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as


outstanding. Now it looks like tomorrow it is going into special


measures. What is it up to? I do think there is an issue for Ofsted


that you can go from outstanding to inadequate so quickly. That is why


we are asking for a new criteria to be introduced to look at a broad and


balanced curriculum. We have healthy sex and relationship education.


There is a real issue this morning as the BBC has been reporting on the


night for the Department of Education. We are hearing that some


of those involved in the schools were not allowed to open a free


school on security grounds. They were allowed to allow one of the


schools to be taken over as an academy. We have a lack of oversight


and accountability in schools within Birmingham. What the Labour Party


wants is a local director of school standards to make sure we challenge


underperformance and make sure we get in confronting Islamic extremism


when it was in power? I was speaking to Hazel blears and she was very


clear about the prevent programme which they rolled out when in


office. A very atomised and fragmented school system where every


school is looked at from behind a desk in Whitehall and he put that


together and you do have an increased risk of chances of


radicalisation. You have attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. Was it


the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for gross negligence. We are dealing


with a government which has been in since 2010. The Government needs to


hold the executive to account. We note the Department Michael Gove was


warned by a senior and respected head teacher about fears over


radicalism. What did he know and what did he act upon? We are hearing


more reports of conversations about fears, about radicalisation, taking


over some of the governing bodies of schools. We need to know what


ministers did. Let me continue. You mention the capital to prevent


strategy. Was it gross negligence for Labour to regularly consult a


man who once headed a group dedicated to making Britain an


Islamic state and wrote a book about schools full of Taliban style


decrees. I think the events in Birmingham are enormously


significant. About the nature of multiculturalism, the nature of


education, the role of civic education, the role of faith


schools. I will say to you this morning that Birmingham City


Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party, the Department for Education were


all involved in this conversation. In 2010, ministers were warned about


potential radicalisation of schools and they fell to act. We need to


know why, for years on, they allowed this situation to exacerbate. When


you look at the record of labour and this government 's record, there are


plenty of examples where both of you fail to act. Would it not be better


to drop the party politics and get together to confront this problem


for the sake of the children? There are a number of reports going on in


Birmingham. Some are led by the city council, some by the Department for


Education. Labour MPs this morning have come forward with the Bishop of


Birmingham talking about faith in schools. If you have a minister


failing to do their job, if you have a minister being given warnings in


2010 and failing to act on them for four years, the opposition has a


role to hold the executive to account. This is about the safety


and standards of teaching for pupils in Birmingham schools. It is about a


great education for these young people so they can succeed in a


modern, multicultural Britain. Do you agree with your Shadow Cabinet


colleague, Rachel Reeves, that Labour' as core voters are


abandoning the party? She was building on what Ed said the day


after the elections in Berwick. We have to make sure those communities


who we historically represent regard Labour as having a successful


message for them. I am passionate about making sure we have great


vocational and technical education, the great academic education in our


schools. If we have more work to do to get people to the polling


booths, we must do that. We must with listen to what she says.


David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping the former PM of Luxembourg


- named by one newspaper as 'the most dangerous man in Europe'


because of his federalist views - from becoming the next president


Mr Cameron has reportedly described Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from


the 80s who cannot solve the problems of the next five years .


But with the German Chancellor Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr


Juncker, it's not a dead cert that Mr Cameron can stop his appointment.


This is what he had to say at the G7 summit earlier this week:


It is important that we have people running the institutions of Europe


who understand the need for change and reform. I would argue that view


is widely shared amongst other heads of government and heads of state in


the European Union. I am clear what I want to achieve for Britain's


future, to secure Britain's placed in a reformed European Union and I


have a strategy for delivering that, a strategy for dealing with an


issue which I think if we walk away from it would see Britain drift


towards the exits. We've been joined from Berlin


by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is a senior figure in the EPP - that's


the party backing Mr Juncker. He's also Chairman of the Union


of European Federalists. And in our Newcastle newsroom is


the former Conservative MEP Martin Callanan who until last month led


the European Conservatives and Reformists group in Brussels.


Welcome to you both. The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary,


they don't want Mr Junker, the new Italian Prime Minister doesn't look


keen either, should he bow out gracefully? First of all, he wants


to have Mr Junker but he wants to have his conditions. Will he become


president of the European Council, a high representative? It is a


discussion to be had in the next three or four weeks until the


European Parliament can elect the president of the European Council


after the proposal of the European Council, which has to be done after


consultation with the Parliament in the light of the European elections


and by a majority vote. If not Mr Junker, then who? There are many


available candidates, I am not going to mention them in front of someone


so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us one name that you would prefer? The


prime Minister of Sweden, Christine Lagarde, the minister from


Lithuania, these are people who have a record of old reform. Junker is


the ultimate Europe insider. We need radical inform. We need to respond


to the message the electorate gave us in the elections -- radical


reform. Junker said he had to lie in public, he allowed the security


services to conduct a dirty tricks campaign against his opponent. This


is not who we want leading the European Commission. Elmar Brok,


European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent


a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status


quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?


First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks


against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man


who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro


group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the


financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible


financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who


works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in


Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government. But


European Union, less government But we need Europe more and he is not a


man from the 80s. He is a man of this century and in this century he


made his own policy. He is the winner of the European elections, he


has a majority will stop Mrs LANguard is not running because she


knows she will not get the majority in the European Parliament. --


Christine Lagarde is not running. It is the Council of minister is that


decides. No, the European Parliament has the final word. The European


Council can make a proposal by majority in the light of the


European elections after consultation with the European


Parliament. The council cannot get a candidate against the will of the


European Parliament. Mr Junker has a majority in the European Parliament.


Theoretically he is right, the Parliament has do vote on the


candidates proposed by the council. I want to challenge the view that


somehow he won the European elections. There is no provision for


Jean Claude Junker to stand in the elections. He is saying that the EEP


party got the most number of seats in the Parliament but none of the


electorate knew they were taking part in this election. How many


people who voted Labour in the United Kingdom realised that their


vote would count towards a German socialist to be a candidate for the


commission of presidency is a nonsensical proposal. The elections


were 28 individual elections with hundreds of parties across Europe.


To try to claim there is a democratic mandate for somebody


nobody has heard from Luxembourg to take over the commission is a


nonsense. People should know him, if I should say that ironically.


Newspapers talking about members of the family of his wife with Nazi


links... What is the answer to Martin Callinan's point? I think it


is clear that British Conservatives have no candidate because they are


not a broad European family, they have not impacted on the selection


of top candidates but it is a form of isolation of the British Tory


Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr Junker is appointed it could lead to


Britain drifting towards the EU exit, is that credible? Is it


melodramatic? It is true that we want to renegotiate the


relationship. We want some serious reform in Europe so the people who


vote in a referendum will be able to vote to stay in if that is what they


want. We need a bold reformer, somebody prepared to engage. That is


not anti the interests of the UK. We need to recognise there is a problem


with public perception of the European Union. Elmar Brok is proud


to be one of the last bastions of federalism that that is not where


most of the public opinion is in Europe. I understand why he wants


his man installed but we need to take into account the message of the


letter -- the electorate. 25% of the publishing of France were prepared


to vote for an openly racist party. We can't just ignore the signal that


the electorate were sending us. If enthusiasm for federalism was at an


all-time low, it would be a slap in the face for the voters of Europe to


have a federalist as the president, would it not? 70, 80% of the members


of the European Parliament, selected by their people, are pro-Europeans.


These are the winners of the European elections. Even in France,


a majority of voters have voted pro-European and that should be


clear, not to make this a populist thing which is not only to do


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