11/12/2016 Sunday Politics East


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It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.


A row has broken out between Number Ten and former


Cabinet minister Nicky Morgan over Brexit and, believe it or not,


the price of Theresa May's leather trousers.


I feel as though I'm one of the people that


If you do that, you are likely to attract attention,


It's not just Nicky Morgan making life difficult


for the Prime Minister - we'll be taking a look at the rest


Fully paid-up rebel Ken Clarke joins us live.


Protestors disrupted a speech by Jeremy Corbyn yesterday,


but is his biggest problem Labour's miserable performance


Here in the East... and Corbyn critic Chris Leslie


Taking the castle out of Castle Point.


A backlash over boundary changes and this 800-year-old ruin.


think of it as an early Christmas present from us.


We guarantee you won't be disappointed.


And speaking of guaranteed disappointments - I'm joined


by three of the busiest little elves in political journalism.


It's Iain Martin, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn.


So, we knew relations between Theresa May and some


of her backbenchers over Europe weren't exactly a bed of roses.


But signs of how fractious things are getting come courtesy of this


morning's Mail on Sunday which has the details of a series of texts


from one of Mrs May's senior advisers to and concerning


the former Cabinet minister Nicky Morgan.


Mrs Morgan is one of those arguing for a so-called soft Brexit,


and has been pressing the PM to reveal more of her negotiation


She's also apparently irked Downing Street by questioning


Mrs May's decision to purchase and be photographed in a ?995 pair


She said she had "never spent that much money on anything apart


Mrs Morgan was due to attend a meeting at Number 10 this week


But that invitation seems to be off, after a fairly extraordinary


argument by text message with Mrs May's joint chief


She texted the MP Alistair Burt, another of those arguing


for a so-called soft Brexit, cancelling Nicky Morgan's invitation


and telling him to not "bring that woman to Number Ten again".


The following day Nicky Morgan texted Fiona Hill, saying


"If you don't like something I have said or done, please


If you don't want my views in future meetings you need to tell them."


Shortly afterwards she received the reply "Well, he just did.


And according to the Mail, Mrs Morgan, who you'll see


in our film shortly, has now been formally banned


So, Tom, much ado about nothing or telling you about the underlying


tensions over Brexit? Both, if I am allowed to choose both. It says


something about British politics today, that this is the most


important thing we can find to talk about, because the Government are


not giving us anything to talk about cs especially on Brexit because they


don't have a plan as we know. There is is a lot of truth that are being


spoken from this row, one is that Mrs May comes into Downing Street


with a lot of baggage including spectacular fall outs with Cabinet


Ministers in the past. Nicky Morgan being one. We heard about the row


over banning children from school. She fell out with Boris Johnson, so,


she then enters Number Ten with history. When you are in Number Ten


you start, you cannot be controversial and my way but the


high way, which is why Fiona Hill kept Theresa May in the Home Office.


You need to behave differently in the top job. It is surprising Nicky


Morgan hats taken such a robust line. She seemed such a gentle soul


as a minister. She did, Brexit has done funny things to people.


Everything has been shaken up. It reveals really how paranoid they


are, I mean you cannot have a situation really in which the, in


which you know, Number Ten has got realise if the Prime Minister's


entire stick is her authenticity and incredible connection, which is


genuine, with voters outside the Metropolitan bubble, when she


chooses to wear ?995 leather trousers you have to anticipate that


journalists and MPs are going to take the mickey, that is how life


works, but I think they are trying to run Number Ten as they ran the


Home Office, and you see that in the rows they have had with Mark Carney


and Boris Johnson this week, now you might be able to run one Government


department in that control freakish way but not Government will hold


together for too long, if it is run in that fashion. By try doing the


whole Government like one department. This is just the start,


Polly, we are still several months away from triggering Article 50. We,


The Tory party is split down the middle, the thing that mattered most


to the nation since the last war, it is not frivolous. It may look as if


it is about trousers, it is about the most serious thing. What was


split down the middle? Aren't the Euro-files and the Eurosceptics used


to be the outliers, it is now the Europhiles, it is not a split down


the middle. They won't vote against Brexit but they will, I think exert


the maximum influence they can, to make sure that it is not a Brexit, a


self-harming Brexit, to make sure that the country understand, when it


comes to that point, that there may be really hard decision to make, do


you want a real economic damage to be done to the country, to your own


wallet, in, in exchange for being able to stop free movement or is


that trade off in the end going to be just too expensive? We have seen


polls suggesting people are beginning to move, and not willing,


a poll out now saying people wouldn't be willing to sacrifice any


money at all, for the sake of stopping immigration. So if itself


comes to that trade off, the people are going to need to be confronted


with that choice. The Irony is, I think the Tories are in the most


exceptionally strong position, I mean what is happening here is that


British politics is being realigned and remade along leave and remain


lines, if the Prime Minister's luck hold, the Tories are looking at


being somewhere 45, 46, 47% of the vote with an opposition split


between a far left Labour Party and depleted Liberal Democrats, that


sound like a recipe for something similar to what happened in the


1980s. You are seeing extraordinary alliances between left and right.


The Scottish referendum rebuilt Scottish politics along the lines of


pro independence, anti-independence and now Brexit maybe doing the same.


So, rows within the Conservative Party over the price


of trousers might be new, but over Europe, not so much.


And this week's Commons vote on when the Government will fire


the starting gun on Brexit, and what it will say


about its plans before it does so, confirmed that instead


of the eurosceptics being the outsiders,


it's now the Remainers who are leading the resistance.


While the Prime Minister was schmoozing in the gold-plated


Gulf this week, back home the Commons was voting


on a Labour motion forcing her to publish a plan for Brexit.


Through some parliamentary jiggery-pokery, the Government


basically got its way, but it did provide a platform


for some mischiefmaking by Tory MPs who voted to remain,


We are getting somewhat tired, are we not, of this constant level


of abuse, this constant criticism that we are somehow Remoaners


that want to thwart the will of the people,


go back on it and that we don't accept the result.


I don't like the result, and yes, I do believe the people


It's not good enough that these things are dragged


out of the Government by opposition day motions.


I'm pleased that it's happened but I wish the Government was taking


Is Nicky Morgan really listening to her constituents


I think I'm one of the people who stuck their head


above the parapet so if you do that you're likely to attract attention,


you're likely to attract abuse, but also actually levels of support.


I'm having e-mails from around the country with people saying thank


you for what you are doing, party members around


the country saying thank you for what you are doing


and saying, and I and others will continue to do that.


I just think, as a backbench Member of Parliament,


you've got to be there, particularly when we have a weak


opposition, to ask the question that government needs to be scrutinised


on before we embark on such a huge issue.


Nobody comes into politics to become a thorn in their party leader's


side, but at the end of the day it's such a massive issue that


if you don't stand up for what you believe in,


I'm not sure what the point is of going into politics.


That puts her on a collision course with activists in her local


party like Adam Stairs, a committed leader who accuses


Nicky has promised me and the rest of our Conservative association


she will be voting for Article 50 and she will support


the Prime Minister's timetable, and we have just got to trust that


and hope that goes ahead, but there's a lot of people


who think she's taking sideswipes at the Government


The Conservatives are very popular, she wants to be a Conservative MP


and we want to see a Conservative government being


I have no idea what she's playing at, I think she just needs to get


on with her job as an MP, which she does very well,


Now let's head to Anna Soubry's constituency nearby to see


how her stance is going down with the voters.


If Anna Soubry doesn't fully back Brexit, what does


Well, she's going to have a little bit of a problem because the voters,


especially in this area, they voted to come out of the EU


so she will definitely have a little bit of a problem.


She should stick for what she believes in,


but I guess from a democratic perspective she does...


She has admitted the fact over and over again that she wanted


to remain, but her views at the moment, even in her e-mails,


depicted the fact she's anti-Brexit still.


Theresa May will host her most pro-European MPs at Downing Street


this week to discuss the countdown to Brexit.


Although now we know not everyone is invited.


And the MP leading the resistance in the Commons on Wednesday


was Ken Clarke, he was the only Conservative MP who voted


against the Government's plan to trigger Article 50 by the end


of March and he joins us now from Nottingham.


Welcome back to the programme Ken Clarke. Now, tell me this when David


Cameron resigned after losing the referendum, you had to pick a new


leader, which candidate did the Tory Europhiles like you put up to


deliver a so-called soft Brexit, or no Brexit at all? Well, I can't


speak for the others but I voted for Theresa May, I gave a notorious


interview, it wasn't meant to be, I was chatting to Malcolm Rifkind but


somebody turned a camera on, I called her a bloody difficult woman


which the Tory party probably needs, compared with Margaret Thatcher and


said I was going to vote for her, I gave a vote for one of the younger


ones first, but I told Teresa I would vote for her, she was the only


serious candidate in my view. You voted for somebody you thought was a


difficult woman, she is being difficult in ways you don't like,


your side of the Tory party, you had your chance to put up somebody more


in line with you, instead you shut up, so, why the complaints about it


not going in your direction? I am not making complaint, it is not


Teresa's fall we are in the dreadful mess, she was on the Remain side,


she made a good speech during the campaign on the referendum, setting


out the economic case for being in, setting out the security case for


being in, which was Home Secretary, she was particularly expert in, it


wasn't her fault that not a word it was reported anywhere, in the


national media. Now, my views have been the same, I am afraid


throughout my adult life, for the 50 years I have been in politics, and


my views have been the mainstream policy of the Conservative Party


throughout all that time, I don't expect to have a sudden conversion


on the 24th June, and I think what I owe to my constituency, and to


Parliament, is that I exercise my judgment, I make speeches giving my


reasons, I make the best judgment that I can, of what is the national


interest. I understand that. I would be a terrible hypocrite if I... Of


course that is not what I am asking. How many Conservative MPs do you


think you can count on to oppose this so-called hard Brexit? Is it


40, 20, 10, 5, 1? I have no idea, because Anna, and Nicky, who you


have just seen on the video who are also sticking to their principle,


they are only saying what they are been saying ever since they have


been in politics, probably may have more idea than me.


That is three, how many more? I don't know, we will find out. We are


living in a bubble in which the tone of politics is getting nastier and


the reporting is getting sillier, so it is all about Theresa May's


trousers and whether Boris has made some inappropriate jokes. What we


need if we are going to abandon the basis upon which we made ourselves a


leading political power in the world for the last 40 years and the basis


upon which our economy has prospered because Margaret Thatcher got the


others to adopt the single market and we benefited from that more than


any other member state, so now we need a serious plan, a strategy.


What is our relationship going to be in the modern world? How will our


children and grandchildren make the best union they can? We need


Parliament's approval of a White Paper and then start years of


negotiation. This will run and run. This interview hasn't got time to


run and run so let me get another question in. You seem to be quoted


in the mail on Sunday this morning as saying if the Prime Minister


sides too much with the heart Brexit group, she won't survive, is that


your view? Yes because only a minority of the House of Commons


think it is frightfully simple and you can just leave. The referendum


campaign, the only national media reporting of the issues were


completely silly and often quite dishonest arguments on both sides.


Let me just check this, explain to me the basis... Know, excuse me, I


have to interrupt because you said the Prime Minister won't survive so


just explain to our viewers why she won't survive. She will be in a


minority she starts adopting the views of John Redwood or Iain Duncan


Smith. It's clear majority of the House of Commons doesn't agree with


that and it would be pretty catastrophic if that is what we were


going to do when we turn up and faced 27 of the nation state, and


tell them we are pulling out of the biggest market in the world. How


long do you give the Prime Minister then? If you don't think she will


survive by going for a heart Brexit? I don't think she will go for a


heart Brexit. Really, surrounded by David Davis and Liam Fox? Do you


think Liam Fox will determine the policy of the Cabinet? Liam has


always been ferociously against the European Union although he served in


a government that was pro-European for about two and a half years. Does


he not survive either? You're trying to reduce it to my trying to


forecast Cabinet reshuffle is which I haven't got a clue whether there


will be a Cabinet reshuffle, they may be ministers for the next ten


years, I have no idea. Liam and me, but also Liam and the majority of


his Cabinet colleagues don't start from the same place. The way forward


is for them to produce a White Paper setting out the strategy on which


all the Cabinet are agreed. People should stop leaking the Cabinet


papers they are getting, they should stop leaking against each other, get


down and do the work when they have got the agreed strategy. I'm sorry


to interrupt again but we haven't got much time. We saw in our film


that a number of constituency members in those areas which are


strongly Remain MPs like yourself, in our case in this film it was


Nicky Morgan, the constituency party members are unhappy about this.


What's your message to them? Don't they deserve an MP that reflects


their way of thinking? Leavers are unhappy and Remainers are very


grateful. Mine don't go in for abuse... That's probably because


you're not on e-mail, Mr Clarke. I get more from Remainers. I'm a great


fan of Anna Soubry and Nicky Morgan, I don't agree with them on


everything, but the views they are putting forward are the ones they've


always held and I think we are doing the Government to favour by saying


what it now depends on is your success in agreeing a policy and


then explaining to the public what you want to do. I shall be surprised


if they manage that by the end of March, I think it is best to get the


policy right first but we shall see. Have you been invited then, you say


you are being helpful, have you been invited to this meeting in Downing


Street on Wednesday for the soft Brexiteers? No, because I haven't


been joining any of these groups. It's fair to say most of my


colleagues know exactly what my views are. No doubt those that


haven't had this kind of discussion with their colleagues before have


been invited. I didn't expect to be invited. I get on perfectly well


with Theresa May but I haven't been invited, but I don't think there's


much significance in that. What do you think of the way Downing Street


has handled Nicky Morgan? I feel sorry for women in politics. I'm


glad to say men in politics don't have great lead stories about what


they are wearing. Apart from my suede shoes, I'm lucky because I'm


not a very snappy dresser. It is tedious in these days that we still


have a absurd pop newspaper stories about what they are wearing.


That commenting on the Prime Minister's trousers, is it really


grounds for banishment? No, of course not. Nikki and Teresa will


have serious political discussions and if they want to have an argument


about what they are wearing, their closest friends will advise them to


keep it private. It is absurd. Given that the party appears to be


deciding it has been all -- ordered to changes policies about Britain's


relationship with the world, it needs to be taken seriously and this


Lola. Is filling a vacuum before the serious discussion starts. Thank you


for filling our vacuum this morning and of course no one would ever


criticise how you dress. Of course. Now, seasoned observers will warn


against reading too much into parliamentary by-elections,


but they can provide a vital boost for a party leader under pressure,


or provide damaging ammunition Following a disappointing result


for Labour last week in Richmond, Jeremy Corbyn may have been hoping


for an early Christmas present at this week's


contest in Lincolnshire. In Sleaford and North Hykeham,


a constituency that supported Leave in the EU referendum,


there was little Christmas cheer for Labour as it fell from second


in 2015 to fourth place. That was at least a better


performance than in Remain-supporting Richmond Park,


where the party's candiate lost his deposit after attracting


fewer voters than the reported number of local


Labour Party members. Speaking for the Labour Party this


week, MP Vernon Coaker said their policies on other major


issues were "lost to an extent Some MPs feel that a lack of clarity


is holding the party back. This week three frontbenchers


were among the 23 Labour MPs to defy the party line and vote


against a motion to begin the process of leaving the EU


by the end of March. And a number of Labour MPs we've


spoken to since Thursday's vote have said they fear the party now runs


the risk of being squeezed by the Lib Dems and UKIP,


or in the words of one, "being cannabilised,


eaten from both ends". To compound their troubles,


a national poll released on Friday put Labour


at a seven-year low, trailing 17 It's still a season of joy


for many of Mr Corbyn's supporters - they point to a series of victories


under his leadership, including a by-election win


in Tooting and the London mayoral Though neither candidate was a


Corbynite. But there's a distinct lack


of goodwill on the party of his critics - although having


failed comprehensively to challenge him this summer,


what they intend to do This morning Diane Abbott played


down the significance of the results. The reports of the Labour


Party's demise are exaggerated, we are the largest social Democratic


party in Europe and the surging membership is down to the current


leadership. We have the right policies on the NHS, investing in


the economy, and as you know the Tories are fatally split on Europe.


And we're joined now by the former mayor


of London Ken Livingstone, and the former Shadow


Ken Livingstone, in the most recent by-election Labour collapsed from


second to fourth place, the one before that your party lost its


deposit. What is the positive gloss on that? There's nothing new in


this, where you have got seats which are solidly Tory, often voters


switched to Lib Dem to kick other voters out. We have had good swings


that indicate a Labour government so don't pay too much attention. It is


like Orpington 50 years ago. Labour voters switched just to kick the


Tories out. Don't read too much into these results, Labour did win


tooting so it is OK. First of all I don't think it was a problem with


the candidates in the by-elections, they did a really good job locally,


but there is an issue with those residents and their attitudes to the


national party, and I just think that when you have warning bells


going off like that, we have to listen to what people are saying. I


think what they are saying is they want an opposition party to have a


plan. So yes we have got to attack the Conservatives where they are


going wrong on the NHS, running headlong over the cliff for a hard


Brexit, but we also need a plan for what Labour's alternative will be.


When do we get that plant? Effectively you have got it already.


John McDonnell has gone on relentlessly for the need for a


massive public investment. For decades now under Labour and Tory


governments we haven't invested in infrastructure, our roads are a


disgrace, a broadband is antique. We need to be honest about this, if


Theresa May can come back and say I've done a deal, we are leaving the


EU, we will control our borders, we won't have to pay 350 million a year


and stay in the single market, well... But that won't happen. If we


are going to stumble along for two years heading for an economic


disaster, that's why only eight MPs voted to leave, because they knew


the harm it would do to their voters. If you have got a plan, why


are things getting worse for you in the national polls, 17 points


behind? If you look back, when I was leader of Chelsea my poll rating


went down... But you have not been as bad since 1983 when you lost an


election by a landslide. Over the next two years our economy will not


grow strongly, it will limp along at best, as we get closer to Brexit it


will get worse. All Labour MPs should be focusing on the economic


alternative because nobody ever wins an election without a credible


economic strategy. So as long as the country goes to hell in a hand


basket, Labour will be fine. That's not good enough. You're not a


commentator any more, you are part of the leadership of the party. It


is to you. I will continue to argue the case for credibility,


particularly in our policies, but the leadership cannot just sit back


and watch this drift. On the Brexit situation, the Conservative


manifesto at the last general election promised it would be yes to


the single market, why aren't we holding them to account for the


broken promise potentially they are about to do? If I had still been an


MP, I would have been voting with you, rebelling, because we are not


going to get any good deal to leave. Theresa May will stumble on for a


couple of years trying to balance... The party policies were heard from


Diane Abbott this morning is to get the best possible deal to leave. And


I will believe it when it happens. So you don't believe a central part


of Jeremy Corbyn's policy? Jeremy has accepted the fact people voted


to leave. He now said we now need to get the best possible deal and you


don't think it's achievable. I don't, because why would the other


27 members give us a better deal staying outside? You've confused me,


why are you such a big supporter of Corbyn with his policy you don't


think it's achievable? Everybody knows we are not going to


get a soft exit, so we either have the hard Brexit and we lose perhaps


millions, certainly hundreds of thousands of jobs, or we have to say


we got it wrong. I mean, you, a lot of people have been saying that all


Labour's unclear on Brexit, that is why it is going wrong, I would


suggest to you, that actually what the concentration on is the Tories


are unclear about Brexit, they are in power, that is what matters, a


bigger problem for Labour is whether Mr Corbyn's leadership will cut


through or not. I think the YouGov poll this weekend not only gave us


that double punch of a 17 point lead for the Conservatives but it had a


33 point lead, 33 point, for Theresa May over Jeremy Corbyn, so part of


the plan, think, has to be to address this leadership issue, to


make sure it is also a party that is listening to the wider public and


not just the small number of members or the trotsites in Momentum or


whoever is the latest Marxist on the... You The thing that is ox


fibbing Labour. One MP said Labour has quoted bunkum. We have has 18


months of Labour MPs stabbing Jeremy in the back and some in the front.


The vast majority of Labour MPs have stopped undermining Jeremy. You


weren't doing that well before. Can you imagine a situation in which you


have elected a new leader and the first year it is all about getting


rid of imand undermining him. I disagree with Tony Blair on lots of


policy issue, I didn't run wound saying this man is not fit to


govern. That is because you had no support for that at the time. The


idea people will take lectures from Ken on divisiveness, that is like


takes lectures from Boris Johnson on diplomacy, you have to make sure,


yes, that we find some accommodation after the leadership election this


summer, but the plan is not there right now, and you and the rest of


the leadership has to be held accountable for delivering that, I


want to hear what the plan is. It is FDR he told us earlier. If you have


got now because as we saw in the Autumn Statement, debt to GDP ratio


at 90%, you can't convince the public by saying we will throw more


money at the problem, the public want a credible plan, where the sums


add up, that you are not making promises that won't be delivered.


They want that plan. We need to point out our history, when Labour


Waugh the election in 45 Government debt was two times that it was now..


Now.. They generated exports and within 50 years we virtually paid


off that debt. Austerity is not the way to go. Our economy is a disgrace


compared with Germany. I agree. What we have to start saying, there is


decent jobs, where are they going to be coming from, can we have a


society based on fair play and prosperity for everybody not just


the wealthy, that means saying, some time, that people have to


contribute, they have to put in, so we have to listen to what the public


are saying on issues for instance like immigration, as they said in


the Brexit referendum, but make sure we have our approach set out


clearly, so people know there is a ability to manage, and control these


things, not just ignore them. Those tax dodgers who launder their money


through Panamanian banks. If we crackdown on what might be 150


billion a year of tax evasion and avoidance. That is a real outlier


estimate as you know, way the highest, you cannot build the FDR


programme on tax evasion revenues, alone, but let me ask you. You can


say to Starbucks, if you are not going to pay tax on your profits we


will tax every cup of coffee. Why don't you nationalise it? I was just


checking that would be the policy. Let me ask you this. By what time do


you get, start to get worrieded if the polls haven't given to turn


round? I mean, I think they will turn round. When do you start to get


worried? If they haven't? If in a year's time it was as bad as this we


would be worried. I don't think it will be. Jeremy and his team will


knows can on the economy, and that is wins every election. Bill


Clinton, remember it's the economy stupid. People know if you are going


to spend money they want to see where it is coming from, otherwise


they will think it is their taxes that will go up and the


Conservative, Theresa May, will scare the British public over plans


that are not properly... What do you do if things haven't got better in


12 months? We lost the leadership election in the summer but we will


hold our leadership to account. What does that mean? It means asking for


the plan, testing what the proposals are, are they properly credible, do


they make sure that they meet the test the public... You just have to


bite the bottom lip now, you privately, a lot of you think your


party is heading for catastrophe. I don't think it is acceptable that we


have this level of performance, currently, I am sure Ken agrees the


opinion polls, and those by by-election were just not good


enough. We have to show leadership, certainly on Brexit, hold the


Government to account. Attack them for the crisis in the NHS, yes and


on the economy, to deliver credible policy force, example on defending


national security and making sure we stand up for humanitarian


intervention. Final point, your party has lost Scotland. You are now


in third place behind the stories -- Tories. I never thought I would be


able to say that in a broadcast, if you lose the north too, you are


heading for the smallest Parliamentary Labour Party since the


war, aren't you. But that is our weakness, we in the 13 years of the


last Labour Government neglected rebuilding our manufacturing in the


way the Germans have done. Millions of people used to have good job, we


used to have 8 million jobs in manufacturing it is down two. It is


in the north, that Jeremy's strategy has the most relevance, of actually


getting the investment and rebuilding. All right. We will see.


Come back in 12 months if not before and we will check it out.


It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.


We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now


Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be talking


about Boris Johnson's tour of the Middle East after straying


off message, again, and the protestors attempting


I'm Stewart White. Politics where you are.


Later in the programme, why cutting the cost of politics


could mean taking the castle out of Castle Point.


As the political map is redrawn, Labour claims it's at their expense.


It's the first time ever, in the history of this country,


that the Government has said how many Parliamentary seats


there should be and has told the independent bodies


And the row between an MP and his local party over


the ?10 million loan to Northampton Town Football Club.


I think it's fair to say that the association is disappointed


that the MP chooses not to contribute and to


Here with us today, the Labour MP for Luton South, Gavin Shuker,


and the Conservative MP for Mid Norfolk, George Freeman,


who is the chairman of the Prime Minister's policy board.


Let's start with the spending plans for this region.


The Government expects to spend ?3 billion of public money


on new buildings and infrastructure here by 2020.


We were given the details this week with the publication


of the Treasury's funding plan for the next four years.


It tells us what has been promised and when it is


More than ?2 billion for road building and maintenance,


half a billion pounds for school buildings, 200 million for 150


different flood defence projects, there's money to increase capacity


on the West Anglia rail line into London and for improvements


to police stations, hospitals and prisons.


It totals just over ?3 billion of public spending.


That's more than most other regions are getting.


The big exception is the North West, which gets three


I think we are getting our message across.


The Government recognises this is an important region.


It's an important region because of the growth opportunities,


the jobs, the new homes, and the extra income in taxes


and so on that can help then support less prosperous parts of the UK.


When it comes to road spending, the lion's share of funding


is going to the new A14 in Cambridgeshire where


There's also money for the Northern Distributor Road around


Norwich and for new river crossings in Lowestoft and Ipswich.


Plans to improve the A47 in Norfolk and Cambridgeshire and the A12


in Essex are listed in the document but, at the moment, there is no


money allocated for the project and no proposed start date.


Gavin Shuker, this is good news, isn't it?


It's always good news when money gets reinvested back in the region.


We are net contributors to the UK Treasury.


We don't get out the same money we put back in.


As long as we do the basics of government.


With projects like that, for example, strip out the A14,


actually that sum goes quite a far direction.


It is important we do these projects.


Some have been talked about for years and years


We should be investing in the areas where places are going.


Forgive me for not getting down on my hands and knees and thanking


You're good but you're not that good yet, George, it has to be said.


It's a shame it's happening now compared to when it would have made


a really big difference to our local economies back in 2010.


The A47 was already committed, locked, loaded.


It's being held up at the moment by environmental disputes


The A47, the 300 million is locked in, and that work is scheduled in.


This is also road and rail but also the broadband announcement.


Another billion for broadband, an acceleration of


Finally, after decades of our region having been pretty neglected


actually by governments of all parties, I am really proud


that we are really getting to grips with this and investing in the whole


Nothing in there about that, although we have announced this week


a major step forward, which I hugely applaud


Finally, we're going to link two of our famous science and innovation


cities and I'm pushing hard for that programme to be extended


out through to Norwich, so we build a life, science


and innovation line, linking Cambridge and Norwich


and that Ely Junction is crucial, both for that...


This has come about because cross-pa MPs from the East have


The things we disagree on we can carry on disagreeing on.


But, actually, put party politics aside, this


Let's look at the things that aren't being done


My basic concern is these are the things a Government


The real devil is in the detail with many of these projects.


For example, East-West rail is going to be run by a private


company built by a private company, further fragmenting our railways.


It doesn't do anything for say commuters coming from Luton,


where we spent 6 billion on upgrades but we still cannot get


These are some of the basics the Government needs to do,


Actually, it is integration on East-West.


It is putting track and train together and housing the Mitsui do


-- so that we do what the Victorians did and fund rail


Let's talk about boundary changes, shall we?


In their manifesto, the Conservatives promised


This week, the end of the first stage of the public consultation


Under the plan, one constituency in this region will disappear


completely and a castle goes missing Essex.


The growing Essex town got its own MP just six years ago.


A merger with neighbouring Maldon could find John Whittingdale


The proposal is to cut 50 MPs with only one


It's Cabinet Minister Priti Patel's seat that is set to go.


I think it's a bit of a shame because you know, Witham


We've one MP, voted for her, and we're going to lose her.


The chair of Witham Conservatives is supportive of the plans.


Are you happy there's going to be this new seat of Maldon and Witham?


The proposal is that the new seat will be Witham and Maldon,


although perhaps Maldon are submitting that as one


The new seat of Witham and Maldon is a more logical boundary.


One idea behind redrawing the boundaries was to make sure


North West Cambridgeshire is currently the largest mainland


constituency in the country with 90,000 voters.


It is true to say that there are, in some parts of the country,


you get two Labour MPs for the same number of constituents


So, the bottom line is, that this is a measure


which is being introduced to equalise constituencies


That does mean that Labour will have to come to terms with having


fewer MPs if proposals go through because that's


in the interests of equality, nothing to do with politics.


Former Basildon MP and Labour's Leader in the House


of Lords is against reducing the number of MPs.


Boundary changes, the first time ever in the history of this country


that the Government has said how many Parliamentary seats


there should be and has told independent bodies how big those


If you make seats much bigger, you make it harder


for those individual MPs to represent their constituents.


In my seat in Norwich, I go from a majority


of about 7500 to a majority of about 2000, 3000.


If you take into account housing development and where it is going


within the Norwich growth area, it becomes pretty much almost


The Conservatives know exactly what they're doing, I think.


There are some quirks with these new constituencies in the East.


Norfolk MP Elizabeth Truss will adopt a little bit of Cambridge,


representing the wards of Littleport East and West.


Brentwood train station will be in Billericay.


That has been our thing, absolutely, that we keep


A public consultation has been under way.


Wayne Johnson from Benfleet has come up with alternative plans


for South Essex and has been backed by hundreds of supporters.


Castle Point feel, the community, the whole of Castle Point feel,


And should not be part of the South and West constituency.


There is still time for changes to be considered.


The plan is by 2018 these new constituencies will be set


in stone, ready for the voters at the next general election.


So, the Conservatives are gerrymandering and it


Proper gerrymandering, if you look at the American


senatorial and Governor maps, there are huge pan handles.


This is us saying, for years, we have been running on basically


Labour seats that are on average about 10,000 smaller.


It's easy to get elected as a Labour MP.


It over represents the old Labour industrial heartlands


There are Conservative seats in the House with 90,000 electors in.


We want to make constituency sizes equal.


It is being done by an independent commission, not by us.


You will understand that he is shaking his head.


That is the big change this time around.


The Boundary Commission is going about its work entirely


scrupulously and honestly but they are doing it


within a formula that has been very tightly designed.


Don't tell me there is no accident in the number of seats that have


They are doing it to maximise their own electoral benefit.


I've no problem at all with choosing a number or having more


At the end of this process, because I'm in an urban area -


ethnic minorities, young people and poor people, I will represent


many more people than you will in your constituency because it's


done on the number of people on the electoral roll and not


the number of people that live there.


If it was done on the number of people who would live


there, we would have no other arguing whatsoever.


Actually, in your seat, you're going to be OK, aren't you?


This is not about my own electoral benefit.


I have to say, my seat will be harder to win


Whoever ends up doing my job, whether it's a Labour,


Conservative or other, will have a much harder job


representing many people who are already voiceless in this


process because they're not already registered to vote.


I think, when you look at the package that is going through,


including the package for the House of Lords by the Tories,


it is not a package that is about democracy at all.


Most people would look and say, a basic of democracy is that


constituencies should be the same size.


We are saying, we should have 10% fewer MPs and the independent


Boundary Commission should take that opportunity to get all


For Clive Lewis to complain he has more affluent voters is ridiculous.


We'll have to represent the constituencies we


It is not for us to complain about the size of the constituencies,


He is arguing about the notion of fairness and not just the people


who vote but the people who live there.


There is a difference between households and the number of voters.


The real point is, for years, Labour has had an in-built


You need a much bigger swing as Conservatives to win a general


The average size of their seats is smaller.


Don't all parties fiddle with the boundaries?


Whenever you get into power, if you think you can, you do.


This is the thing that is different this time around.


Before, we left it to the independent Boundary Commission


to decide the number of seats, to decide how best


Government has chosen to intervene directly and set


I have to say this argument, to say it is easy to get


elected as a Labour MP, first of all belies my own


experience and the experience of many Labour MPs, but secondly


goes to the heart of why, for example, in the last election,


it took more constituents voting for a Labour MP across this region


This changes over time but we just want basic fairness.


That is the cornerstone of our system.


Let's talk about the MP at loggerheads with his local party


local party over a loan to Northampton Town Football Club.


David Mackintosh was the leader of the council when a loan


The critical report by the auditors has found there was political


pressure to push the loan through and there were not enough


checks made on where the money would go.


Mr Mackintosh, did you know about the source of the donations?


For more than a year, David Mackintosh has refused


to answer questions about his role in awarding a loan to


A loan of more than ?10 million of taxpayers money.


Money that should have been used to redevelop


At the time, David Mackintosh was the leader


An MP who has dramatically fallen out with senior figures


I think it's fair to say the association is disappointed


that the MP chooses not to contribute and to


answer questions relating to the investigation,


relating to these reports, and more importantly relating


What is the relationship like between the association


It's fair to say there is relationship.


Whether it be because of David Mackintosh's duties as MP.


He hasn't been able to attend the executive


He does not attend the association meetings.


And auditors report has suggested Mr Mackintosh


officers to agree the loan to quickly and that meant proper


In a statement, David Mackintosh said:


to discuss that report, an even stronger claim,


that councillors were misled about how much work had been done


prior to the Cabinet meeting where the loan was approved.


At that Cabinet meeting, when three councillors were present


and expressed their concerns, we were lied to by the


At the time, Councillor David Mackintosh.


So, we were lied to, not only we as councillors,


but our constituencies, and the people of Northampton, that


In a statement, a spokesman for David Mackintosh told us:


There are two further investigations into the missing millions


One from external auditors KPMG, another criminal investigation


It's likely to be some time before we hear the results of either.


We know how one member of that executive committee feels,


There are certainly others who share her views,


not least the chair of that association who, at the weekend


told us that David Mackintosh needs


Quite how widespread it is, we had expected to find that out


on Friday when the party's executive board was due to consider a highly


critical mission with some pretty extraordinary language,


expressing disappointment and concern at the conduct


of David Mackintosh with respect to this alone and saying


they are worried that the issue is causing


reputational damage for the Conservative Party


At the 11th hour, the day before Friday's meeting,


the party decided instead they would not consider that motion.


We understand senior figures in the National Conservative Party


spoke to the local association and agreed to take a more in depth


look at the issues surrounding the loan and the role played


As a result, the association in turn agreed to put that motion


Conservative campaign headquarters do tell us they are not


investigating but I get the impression that if the local


party is not happy with the response then they could well put this motion


If they debated it and if, of course, it was agreed,


that would be without doubt a pretty explosive political moment.


Well, last week on this programme we told you about the problems


facing our university technical colleges.


The problem is failing to attract enough people.


This week they announced it will close next year.


It cost ?10 million to build and only opened two years ago.


It can take 600 students but, at the moment, it's only 25% full.


The trustees have decided it's no longer viable.


Some students have only been one term.


Now they will have to find somewhere else to go.


There is a really strong success story there.


I do entirely accept that one or two of the UTCs have not thrived.


Even at Daventry, we are making energetic plans to make sure


that the youngsters at Daventry, who wish to continue


in the UTC programme, will be able to transfer


The trust was set up by former Education Secretary Ken Baker


to promote university technical colleges.


Why is it that not enough was done to prepare for this


The UTCs, generally, they have been applauded and welcomed.


They do important work in pushing forward and developing


As the clip showed, they have a very good track record


in qualifying people for high quality apprenticeships.


He did not go on the speaking circuit, he has kept at it


and committed his life to driving through educational standards.


There is a problem here locally for the good to hear Silverstone


will be making itself available so local students won't suffer.


There is a difficulty getting people to go to them.


I think, when you are changing the educational ecosystem,


making available more provision, we have shifted the emphasis


strongly to promote the occasional and technical training,


that takes a while to filter through.


-- vocational and technical training.


We are developing choice and diversity more broadly in schools.


The old days of, there are two types of school


It takes time for people to realise this is a different option


Cross-party, most people agree UTCs are a good idea but it's just


I have some sympathy with that position.


You've got to do more on science, maths and those skills which prepare


On a cross-party basis we are trying to do that.


The second thing, I think there is a weird thing in our system


at the minute where we can't decide whether students are meant to choose


at 11 the future direction or their direction at 14.


I think you're much more empowered to make those choices.


That is why this stuff around grammar schools and the 11


plus is such an odd thing to dump into the system.


Where we should be going is saying that, at 14, people are making


a choice about 14-19 and the rest of their lives beyond that.


Now for our round-up of the political week in 60 seconds


Transport Secretary Chris Grayling has announced that a new company


will be created to run the so-called Varsity rail line, linking


Bedford and Milton Keynes to Oxford and Cambridge.


This East-West rail organisation will be established early


in the New Year and chaired by the former chief executive


400 land and business owners went to Westminster this week to call


on ministers not to forget the countryside when they decide


There are many other things we could be doing with our space.


The South Cambridgeshire MP, Heidi Allen, has announced


she will stand for election as the first directly elected


They are the big items in the devolution deal.


It feels like I'm doing a big chunk of the job already.


And the Justice Secretary, Liz Truss, revealed the latest


weapon in the fight against the use of drones near prisons.


They have now got patrol dogs who are barking,


It prompted several suggestions on Twitter, including this one


And there is nothing you can say about that.


Both of you, thank you for being with us.


Now it is back to Andrew in the studio.


still the biggest factor. We are running out of time.


Now, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson was rebuked


by Downing Street this week - yes, again - after the Guardian


revealed he had accused Saudi Arabia of being among countries engaged


in fighting "proxy wars" in the Middle East, breaking


the Foreign Office's convention of not criticising a key UK ally


in the region and annoying the prime minister who'd just returned


The Defence Secretary Michael Fallon was asked about it


And let's be very clear about this, the way some of his remarks


were reported seemed to imply we didn't support the right


of Saudi Arabia to defend itself, and it is being attacked by Houthi


terrorists from over the border with Yemen,


didn't support what Saudi is doing in leading the campaign to restore


Some of the reporting led people to think that, and that is all...


This was simply the way it was reported and interpreted.


The way it was interpreted left people with the impression


that we didn't support Saudi Arabia and we do.


Well, Mr Johnson has been in the Saudi capital


Riyadh this morning, so how's he been received?


Our security correspondent Frank Gardner is in neighbouring


Bahrain, where Mr Johnson was earlier in the weekend.


It has probably been a long time since there has been such interest


in a British Foreign Secretary visiting the gulf region. What are


the political elites there making of it all? Well, they think to be


honest it is a bit of a storm in a tea cup this is a bit of a Whitehall


story, I think a lot of people I have spoken to tend to believe that


Number Ten have made such a fuss about this, that it has created a


story in itself. That said, though, I think that behind the scenes there


was a certain amount of damage limitation taking place between


London and Riyadh, a bit of smoothing of feathers and reassuring


and the Stade Saudis tell me they are reassured the message they are


taking is. Coming from Number Ten and they are not taking Boris


Johnson's comments to heart. He is in the dam, he has met the king, I


tweet add picture of that just a few minutes ago. He has been meeting


Crown Prince, and he is now meeting the Foreign Minister, so the Saudis


got an opportunity to brief him according to their vision of the


Middle East. They will share their security concern, which is not just


what is going on in Yemen, but they are very concerned about what they


see as Iranian expansionism, that has been a theme here at this


conference in Bahrain that Boris Johnson addressed only a day or two


ago. If we put aside Mr Johnson's supposed gaffes or even the Downing


Street slapping down of him, we have had the Prime Minister in the region


earlier this week, we have got Mr Johnson there now, can we yet divine


what the May Government strategy is in the Golf? -- Guff. In three


words, in Boris Johnson's words Britain is back. He was very quick


to say not in a jingoistic running up flags, new imperial list way,


although that is Howley be seen by some. He gave a very forceful speech


which seemed to go down well the gulf hosts here on Friday night


which said Britain made a strategic mistake in, after 1968 in


withdrawing east of Suez and it will reverse that decision, and invest ?3


billion over the next ten years in building up its military not bases


exactly but facilities -- facilities that are here in this part of the


world. There are currently 15 hundred hundred British servicemen


and women in this region, seven warships and so on. It isn't


entirely true to say Britain withdrew east of Suez because we


have had a military presence on and off here, the RAF had a base here in


Bahrain during the Gulf War of 91. In 2003, of course, British planes


and troops deployed from this area, but he and Theresa May are both


saying post-Brexit, Britain's big emphasis or one of the big pushes is


going to be to redouble its ties with gulf Arab nations, that isn't


going to come as an easy bit of new, I think, to human rights campaigners


and anti-arms campaigners because a large part of the ?7 billion of


bilateral trade Britain did with Saudi Arabia comes from arms deals


and those arms are being used in the conflict in Yemen, in some cases


with tragic consequences. Thank you very much for talking to us.


Instead of concentrating on Mr Johnson's gaffes, or Downing Street


reaction to it. Frank Gardner there has just given us a really important


development, or explained what the British are up to there now. They


want to be back in the gulf big time. Isn't that something we should


be debating and discussing? It is fascinating. It is yet another


example post-Brexit I would say this is someone who voted to Brexit, that


the world is changing, and Britain's role is going to be transformed


post-Brexit. I mean just on the Boris point, I completely agree, I


think a lot of it is ridiculous, in a Whitehall belt way stuff, but I


think what is really important about it, is that Number Ten feel


threatened by him, and the reason that these ridiculous gaffes and


many of them are not even gaffes are pounced upon is he is the main rival


for the Crown, so it is high level power play politics, and it is May


trying to keep him in his place. What do you make though, of Britain


is back in the gulf? That is the big story, is it not. Utterly bizarre,


post imperial fantasy, the idea we are back east of Suez? We are


breaking off from our closest ally, most like us, the rest of Europe,


democratic, decent human rights country, and instead we are allying


ourself to perilous, dangerous, unpleasant countries... Why should


we be back in the gulf? If that is the trade off, these are, you know,


these renasty kingdoms, petty unpleasant and unstable countries.


Don't we have to keep the straits open otherwise the oil supply


collapses and the world economy will go into the worst recession


depression ever? Don't we have to be involved in that We do, and I think


what happens is if we leave Europe and we need trade everywhere else,


we have to travel the world on our knees begging for friends from the


most unsavoury people, where ever they are, whether it is... You keep


saying we are leaving Europe, that is a geographic impossibility.


Britain is part of Europe, we are the... Not what Liam Fox is saying.


The key power in Nato, we are leaving the European Union, that is


a different Tring from Europe. I am trying to move away from Mr Johnson,


or even Downing Street to... You got yourself into a Brexit row.


Everything is through the prism of Brexit, even what you have for


breakfast, when you mix up the word like I did last week. What do you


make of what Frank Gardner told us? I am somewhere between the two. It


is a nighs the line say we are back in the Middle East and we will take


this part of the world seriously, the truth is our military is almost


tiny, it is smaller than it was in the Napoleonic wars, that is not a


huge amount more. Of course there S one of the two new aircraft


carriers, that will be deployed in the gulf, to help the Americans keep


the straits of her muz open, because it is in Europe's interest, not just


Britains, Europe's interest that these straits stay open, which is


more so than America. That is what FRANK was talking about. That is no


change, British foreign policy has been keeping the straits open... Now


we have the ability do it. We don't have an aircraft aier at the moment.


Nor do we have the fleet of ships it needs. It is a great thing to be


trade morgue with the Nice, to be turning -- Middle East, to be


turning round more tax revenues and the like. Even selling weapons. I


don't know what more can be done. You look at what has happened. BBC


has had horrific reports from the Yemen and if you look at what the


weapons are being used for, is that the trade we want? Right. Let us


move on. Mr Corbyn was giving a speech yesterday but he was


inter#ru79ded by Peter Tatchell. -- interrupted.


Peter, could we leave this to the questions please?


Peter, we are trying to make a speech here and then


Was Peter Tatchell right do that yesterday? It is a bit of a


distraction really. Jeremy Corbyn 17% in the polled is not going to be


able to change... You mean his personal rating. If you want to do


something about Syria you ought to be addressing the Government rather


than a failing Labour leader. Peter Tatchell's line was Labour in


general, Mr Corbyn in particular had not been vocal enough in condemning


what the Russians and their Assad allies are doing in Aleppo. It was


interesting Mr Corbyn had to ask Emily Thornberry if and when had


they condemned what the Russians were doing? It was unclear. Other


than Mrs Thornbury herself. There is a fascinating fault line in politics


which is the Trump administration, the way in which parts of the


British left have made themselves useful idiots once again for the


Kremlin and it its policies. I think more broadly, you consider all the


things we have been discussing, it is a national tragedy what is


happening to the Labour Party. You don't know whether to laugh or cry


watching that event. Corbyn was at a stop the war rally event only last


week, and they of course are very close to the Kremlin, they blame the


west, well they blame the west much more... They always blame the west.


And not the Russians. I agree Jeremy Corbyn having to check with Emily


Thornberry what the Labour Party's policy was on bombing Aleppo... If


and when they condemned it. He needs to no better. The fact that we are


talking about what was a pretty small scale protest, rather than


anything Corbyn said, shows he wasn't saying anything relevant. We


will get a huge amount of tweet saying the BBC are anti-Corbyn. I


understand that, that shouldn't intimidate us from saying, from


analysing what is happening, and here is one yard stick, of course it


is fundamentally the Government's choice, but it could be an indicator


of whether the Labour Party is relevant or not in only issues, in


reason pert Murdoch is making a take over bid for all of Sky and so far


you would have to bet, policy, that it is going to get through pretty


much unscathed. It is extraordinary. It is connected with Leveson, and


the fact that that has disappeared. That the idea of restraining the


press in any way at all, and virtual will I the whole of the press is


behind that, and it seems to go with allowing what wasn't allowed before.


He was judged as unfit before. He is as unfit now, to control that much


of the media, and as he was when he made the last bid for Sky. It is


time people stood up and said so. You look at the press he runs, the


cultural effect he has has on this country which has been appalling,


you know about this. Tom, I better let you have a word. I don't agree


at all Polly but the lesson for the Labour Party, is if they don't want


to have any influence at all, they have to be credible, and stand a


reasonable chance of becoming Prime Minister or becoming Government,


that is the only way they will get leverage. We need to leave it there.


I was going to say we will come back to it. We will see. The Daily


Politics will be back at noon tomorrow.


and we'll be back here next Sunday for the last show of 2016.


Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.


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