Browse content similar to 01/04/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Petrol panic, | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
pastygate, dinners for donors, a week of bad headlines for all David | :00:49. | :00:55. | |
Cameron, so how did Downing Street loses its grip on the news agenda? | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
Joy at Galloway conjured up an astonishing by-election victory in | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
Bradford. -- George Galloway. Has he knocked the stuffing out of | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
Labour? The NHS reforms have made it through Parliament at last, but | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
what will they mean for patience? Andrew Lansley joins us for the | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
Sunday interview. And our panel of the sharpest political journalists, | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
here every week to analyse the week ahead and tweeting non-stop | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
throughout the programme. In London this week, in the first | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
of a series of interviews with the main candidates in the mayoral | :01:29. | :01:39. | |
:01:39. | :01:40. | ||
election, we talk to Jenny Jones All that coming out in the next | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
hour, but first the news with Maryam Moshiri. | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
Good afternoon. The polls are about to close in Burma's parliamentary | :01:47. | :01:53. | |
by-elections. It is expected that Aung San Suu Kyi will win one of | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
the fortified seats being contested. It is the first time her National | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
League for Democracy has taken part in elections for more than 20 years. | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
Rachel Harvey has been following the voting from the capital, | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
Rangoon. Voting has been pressed throughout | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
the day. People are apparently keen to take part in elections in which | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
so much could be at stake. A small number of international monitors | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
are on hand, although they have not been here long enough to assess the | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
entire process. Well, there is a system, it looks as if the system | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
is working, and, you know, we hope that lots of people come out to | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
vote and that there is no problems and then it will be a good day. | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
opposition party led by Aung San Suu Kyi has already complained of | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
irregularities during the campaign and is now citing some problems | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
during polling. The question is whether the imperfections are an | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
attempt to manipulate the outcome or a reflection of inexperience. | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
Burma has only held two elections in the past quarter of a century. | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
The officials here were showing everybody that those ballot boxes | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
were empty. They actually help them up to make clear to everyone there | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
is nothing inside, it is an open process, then they sealed it up. | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
Then they let the first vote to come in, so so far it looks as if | :03:09. | :03:19. | |
:03:19. | :03:22. | ||
Up to 3,000 jobs could be saved at the struggling computer games | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
retailer or Game after a deal to buy half of the stores was reached. | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
It is expected around 300 branches in the UK and Ireland could be | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
saved after a deal with Opcapita. Foreign Secretary William Hague has | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
defended the Government's handling of the petrol crisis. He said it | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
had been caused by the threat of strike action by tanker drivers, | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
not by government ministers urging motorists to top up their time | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
sensed or petrol. It prompted a wave of panic buying at the arms. - | :03:51. | :03:58. | |
- to top up thought -- to top up there tanks or store petrol. | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
think ministers would have been criticised either way, because it a | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
strike took place and they had not alerted people, it would be said | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
that they were complacent and prepare the country. The country is | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
any better State Opera Paribas now than it was a week ago. -- is in a | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
better state of preparedness. Air Passenger Duty has been | :04:19. | :04:26. | |
increased by around 8% to �13 for short-haul flights and �92 for | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
longer all journeys. Airlines have criticised it as a tax on tourism, | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
but the government says airlines will benefit from a reduction in | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
corporation tax. More news here on BBC One at 6:30pm. Andrew. | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
After what many see as David Cameron's was weak as Prime | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
Minister, more details in today's Sunday Times about former | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
Conservative treasurer Peter Cruddas and undisclosed meetings | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
between the Prime Minister and a wealthy party backers. We can talk | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
to political correspondent Iain Watson. The Tories are behind the | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
curve once again. Last week they said, we will not publish the | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
details of private dinners, but they were forced to do so, but now | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
more have come out and they will have to do the same again. I think | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
we should be clear, Andrew, that this week's story is not in the | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
same league as last week's. Then the allegation was cash for | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
influence, if you have got a big cheque and you are a Conservative | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
donor, you can have direct influence over policy. Peter | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
Cruddas said it was bluster but he resigned. This week the story is | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
about transparency and openness. As you were mentioning, in the wake of | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
last week's story, we had a list published of all the dinners which | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
the Prime Minister had hosted with party donors at official residences. | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
Peter Cruddas' name does not appear on those lists, but the Sunday | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
Times has released footage of him boasting of being at an event at | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
Chequers. What Number Ten are saying is that they only ever | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
promised to publish a list of dinners, not a list of events that | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
any donor might have attended. What Labour are saying is that it is | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
time the government came clean and gave us a new list of all meetings | :06:04. | :06:06. | |
which the Prime Minister has had with donors, what he has promised | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
to do so far is the more open in future, to give us more details of | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
future meetings that he has with people who are filling Conservative | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
Party coffers. Is that the end of the story? Where does it go from | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
here? It is not so much just about this story, and I have been saying | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
since the Budget that the government has been plagued by | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
political donations, pasties and petrol. There is a feeling that it | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
might be reaching a defining moment for this government. It is possible, | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
some Conservatives say, that they will recover, perhaps with a change | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
in backroom personnel, perhaps by improving communications or seeing | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
the petrol prices subside. Just as Tony Blair's government recovered | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
from a deficit in the opinion polls in 2000 against weak opposition, | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
this government could do the same. But there are wider fears here that | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
we might be approaching a black Wednesday moment. Back then the | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
government, for a long time, lost their reputation for economic | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
competence, and there is a fear that everything taken together, the | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
Government might be creating the kind of impression of permanent or | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
semi-permanent impression in voters' minds that we are not all | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
in this together, that they are out of touch with ordinary people's | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
concerns. That would make a political recovery far more | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
difficult, and that is what is looking Conservative MPs this | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
weekend. We will investigate that Thorpe now. The week started with | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
the Tory treasurer caught on camera offering access to the prime | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
minister in return for hundreds of thousands of pounds. It ended with | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
Labour's crushing defeat in the Bradford by-election at the hands | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
of George Galloway. In between, we have had rows over the Leeds | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
pasties and whether or not to fill up a jerry can with petrol. Here is | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
Adam Fleming with a review of the past extraordinary seven days. | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
Thanks to the government, connoisseurs of terrible tabloid | :07:57. | :08:05. | |
word play have had a wonderful week. PM admits hosting donors at flat! | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
That concerned the sting by the Sunday Times which caught the | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
former Tory treasurer offering dinner with the Camerons at Number | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
Ten in return for big donations to the party. With the government | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
published a list of donors who dined in the flat? No way, they | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
said, until they did a few hours later. Petrol, Number Ten fuels | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
panic. This one was the result of some government advice to stock up | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
on petrol just in case tanker drivers go on strike in the next | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
few weeks. At the greater the extent to which people have petrol, | :08:38. | :08:44. | |
fuel in their vehicles, maybe a little bit in the garage as well, | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
in a Gerry McCann, the longer we will keep things going. Except that | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
last bit is potentially dangerous and possibly illegal, highlighted | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
when a woman suffered burns trying to decant petrol in a kitchen. Out- | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
of-touch Tories hire and dry! This was the result of the Chancellor | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
admitting to MPs that he could not remember the last time he had been | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
to an well-known chain of high- street bakers, even though he is | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
slapping VAT on hot Beitbridge to take away, through prime- | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
ministerial attempts to shore up the pass the boat. The last one I | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
bought was from the West Cornwall as the company. I seem to remember | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
I was in Leeds station at the time. Except that shop closed five years | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
ago. For Labour, revenge was a dish best served slightly warmed as they | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
trooped to their local graves. hereby declare that George Galloway | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
is duly elected. All the main parties were blown away by the news | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
from Bradford West in the early hours of Friday morning that George | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
Galloway had done it again, snatched a safe seat from Labour | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
for his respect party. Adam Fleming looking back on a week of | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
communication problems, to put it kindly, for the Conservatives and a | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
disastrous by-election result for Labour, to put it bluntly. I joined | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
by George Eustice, former press secretary in opposition, and the | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
Labour Shadow Cabinet Office minister Michael Dugher, former | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
chief political spokesman for Gordon Brown. George Eustice, the | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
petrol crisis, the UK petrol industry association, with all its | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
authority, described the panic buying as, quote, self-inflicted | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
insanity. That is entirely down to the government, isn't it? Well, | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if you look at a different kind of | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
media context for the type of thing that Francis Maude was saying, you | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
might have got a different response. He would need hindsight to note | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
that you would start a panic if you urged people to fill jerry cans? | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
You would need hindsight to know that? There has been a huge media | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
over-reaction, and it might have been a short bit of government | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
advice that was number five on a news item and it suddenly became a | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
raging row for three days due to the way the media reacted. Petrol | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
stations, the media is not to blame for petrol stations running dry, | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
queues around the block as try to fill up. That his government | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
ministers! What they were trying to do was to make sure that we were | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
prepared for a potential strike, that people had more petrol in the | :11:22. | :11:28. | |
tank than they otherwise would. used Art of Touch You Never Saw | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
that would cause panic? -- are you so out of touch that you never saw | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
that would cause panic? Look, the advice was to maybe fill up if | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
there was going to be a strike, and the reaction has been rather | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
extraordinary. As I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing, and the | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
Government would not have chosen to do that given the way things have | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
turned out. So it is all tickety- boo, no problem with communications | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
in Downing Street whatsoever. they have got to do... Is there a | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
problem? He was a long run-up to the Budget, and the media get bored | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
of the same story day-in, day-out. They got to the problem when they | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
needed a change in the story, the Budget was a moment for that. | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
George Osborne was robbed of all the good announcements because they | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
were leaked, and we have had a remarkable change in sentiment in | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
the media, a very febrile atmosphere at the moment, and it is | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
difficult for the government to get a good hearing. My advice would be | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
to do nothing for the next government, apart from time to get | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
Boris Johnson elected, but then work on a very coherent plan for | :12:30. | :12:37. | |
after made to get back in the saddle. Michael Dugher, why were Ed | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
Balls and Ed Miliband scoffing sausage rolls in Greggs in Redditch | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
when they should have been fighting the Bradford by-election? There are | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
a number of lessons we have got to learn from Bradford. I mean, I | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
think we seriously underestimated the George Galloway effect, | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
particularly in the last week of the campaign. Ed Miliband has said | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
we are going to learn those lessons. By-elections sometimes throw up | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
results like this when the mainstream parties get their | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
backside kicked. That is what happened to all the mainstream | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
parties last week. We make no bones about it, it was a Labour seat, we | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
should have held onto that seat. Why were you like a bunch of kids | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
in Redditch having great jokes at the Tories' expense instead of | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
knocking on doors in Bradford? Greggs is a successful, expanding | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
company, and it is no bad thing for political leaders to be buying a | :13:25. | :13:30. | |
sausage roll. There has been a lot of media interest around that this | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
week. We know why they were buying sausage rolls, we are not entirely | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
stupid. Because the Government slapped VAT on sausage rolls and | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
pasties whilst giving millionaire's tax cuts. There is a serious point | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
to this. In Bradford there were some organisational reasons behind | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
the fact that while Labour and the other mainstream parties did so | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
badly, I think it is possibly the first by-election in history that | :13:54. | :14:01. | |
was fought and even won on Social media. You had George Galloway with | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
85,000 followers on his Facebook page. Our candidate was knocking on | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
doors the old-fashioned way. George Galloway was able, particularly in | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
the last week, to connect with a whole bunch of people who have not | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
been voting in previous elections. There are big lessons for Labour | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
and all the mainstream parties. have lost Scotland, you have lost | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
Bradford West. If you do not win London, Mr Miliband has a | :14:23. | :14:30. | |
leadership crisis, doesn't he? opinion polls put Ed Miliband and | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
the Labour Party nine points ahead in the national polls. We are | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
working very hard to win back trust in Scotland. If you take elections | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
one year ago, Labour won 850 councillors. We have won every by- | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
election in recent months. Bradford was a setback, but we need to learn | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
lessons about what happened in that particular constituency. Across | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
England and in Wales, in Glasgow and in other parts of the country, | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
we will be taking the argument that this is a government that is out of | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
touch, cutting taxes for millionaires while hitting hard- | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
pressed pensioners and ordinary working families. George Eustice, | :15:06. | :15:15. | |
what is worse for the Government, being seen to? -- to be out of | :15:16. | :15:25. | |
:15:26. | :15:26. | ||
Neither a very good, but neither a true. There has been a change in | :15:26. | :15:34. | |
media sentiment. There is a cycle. The goal from sinking the | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
government is good to thinking the Government is very bad. -- they go | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
from thinking. The Government has to focus on getting a clear, | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
coherent plan for after May. If Boris Johnson is elected, the | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
weather will change. The media sentiment will change. The | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
Government will have a chance of getting a fairer hearing. Are you | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
wonder pressure to stop the pasty tax? Absolutely. I will be trying | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
to amend it. Many of the manufacturers are in my | :16:04. | :16:10. | |
constituency. All these cock-ups from Downing Street, the | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
communications disasters, it must remind you of your time in Downing | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
Street with Gordon Brown. Last week, I did wonder, I don't think Downing | :16:19. | :16:25. | |
Street is very good at crisis management and PR. There is an | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
increasing sense, reading reports today about the Government's | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
handling of the fuel dispute, the RADA ports -- there are reports | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
that David Cameron told the cabinet that petrol panic would not be a | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
bad thing. There has been an increasing sense that what Downing | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
Street did was were popping crisis around the dispute, to distract | :16:48. | :16:54. | |
attention from bad headlines about Tory donors. But it backfired | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
spectacularly. The people who paid the price are my constituents and | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
others, stuck unnecessarily in massive queues. I think it was a | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
crisis home-made in Downing Street and whipped up by stupid comments | :17:07. | :17:13. | |
by ministers. Party funding is back in the headlines this morning. Both | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
major parties, all three mainstream parties have problems with funding. | :17:18. | :17:26. | |
Is there anything more that Labour can do to get some resolution? | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
things need to happen. First, we have consistently said we want to | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
get around the table with the other political parties and negotiate are | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
a reform of party funding. We want to take the big money out of | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
politics. We said we are prepared to look at a cap on spending, and a | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
cap of �10,000 on donations to political parties. The political | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
parties need to get around the table, soon. There has to be | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
greater transparency. Last week Ed Miliband published not just his | :17:56. | :18:04. | |
dinners, but all the meetings he has had. With anyone who has given | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
the Labour Party �7,500. David Cameron has refused to match that | :18:09. | :18:16. | |
and will only publish some details. With today's revelations, until | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
David Cameron stops hiding his relationship with donors, the cloud | :18:19. | :18:27. | |
hanging over the Government will not go away. Thank you both. The | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
Government's NHS bill finally became law this week. No mean feat | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
for Andrew Lansbury. -- Andrew Lansley. He has faced opposition | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
from the Lib Dems and calls to drop the Bill from his own side but | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
along the way he has had to agree major changes. At last in a moment | :18:44. | :18:54. | |
:18:54. | :18:54. | ||
how at the NHS in England will change. -- I will ask him in a | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
moment how the NHS will change. In his first conference speech as | :18:58. | :19:08. | |
:19:08. | :19:12. | ||
leader, David Cameron spelt out his top priority. In three letters, NHS. | :19:12. | :19:18. | |
Let us make this commitment, no more pointless reorganisations of | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
our National Health Service. That personal view was turned into an | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
election poster but they did not win the election. The sun is | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
shining. Two parties now had a say on health. The coalition agreement | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
laid out common ground but two months later, it was clear that | :19:40. | :19:45. | |
wholesale reform was on the cards. When the Health and Social Care | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
Bill was presented in January last year, it said patients first. PCTs | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
out and GPs in. And all this as the NHS had to make huge savings. | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
Health unions said that it was disrupting privatisation. The | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
concerns of health professionals could not be ignored. Then Lib Dem | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
party members voted at their conference against the bill. The | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
former health spokesman threaten to resign if changes were not made. | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
have said that if it is impossible for me to carry on, I will step | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
down. We propose to take the opportunity of a natural break in | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
the passage of the bill two Pauls, listen and engage with those who | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
want the NHS to succeed. -- two balls. There was an eight week | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
listening exercise. Cameron, Clegg and Lansley toured hospitals and | :20:43. | :20:49. | |
the bill re-emerged in June with amendments. Growing hostility from | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
professional bodies threatens to put the bill on wide support and by | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
January, the Royal College of midwives and other unions were | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
openly opposed. Others were allowed to engage with government but had | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
objections. Concerns were echoed in the Lords, where over 1000 | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
amendments were suggested. It began to seem that the survival of the | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
built lay in the hands of a veteran peer, not the Health Secretary, | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
whose fate seemed to be in hand of a veteran at union rep, and a | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
conservative bloc which suggested that Cabinet ministers and Tories | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
wanted the bill dropped. But the bill stayed and last week it became | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
law. Andrew Lansley joins me for the | :21:35. | :21:44. | |
:21:45. | :21:45. | ||
Sunday interview. The health reforms are now law and | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
they have to be implemented. Rather than go over the old ground, let us | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
look at what they will mean for patients in England watching this | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
programme. Simply and concisely, explain what they will mean for NHS | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
patients. It means that patients will get more information and more | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
choice. An opportunity to choose their GP practice, to choose who | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
looks after them, often when they are being referred for treatment, | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
to have greater choice about services. Not only which hospital | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
they go to, but who is providing the services in the community. | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
Secondly, the bill is clear that these services have to be more | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
joined-up. We're going to see more integrated services, including | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
social care. Imagine you are someone with a long-term condition | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
like diabetes. You're more likely to be able to say that if you have | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
severe diabetes, not only do I know who Meyer -- who is responsible for | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
my care in the community, but also if I need support from the local | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
authority, that social care, too. Secondly... Thirdly. OK, thirdly. | :22:55. | :23:02. | |
The GP with whom your registered, they have an ability to see the | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
needs that you have. Instead of unaccountable bureaucracy, we will | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
save money by cutting out two tears of bureaucracy. The GPS, | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
collectively, will be able to design the services that you need | :23:15. | :23:20. | |
locally. There will be somebody who knows your services. Additionally, | :23:20. | :23:26. | |
there will be a stronger voice for patients. HealthWatch, in every | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
area, will be able to speak up for patients. And the local authority | :23:30. | :23:37. | |
is a central part of this. If -- they will be at the heart of trying | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
to improve health for the future. Local campaigns to improve teenage | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
pregnancy, to reduce obesity and improve sexual health, those things | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
will be able to impact across a whole community. I'm not sure our | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
viewers will find that simple or concise. I think it is pretty | :23:56. | :24:03. | |
simple. I'm still not sure, and it took five points. It is a big bill. | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
Will we see improvements as a result of these reforms in time for | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
the next election? Yes. We are looking to achieve not only that | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
the services continue to improve, so the number of people waiting | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
more than 18 weeks for operations have gone down since the election. | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
We have seen hospital infections at the lowest levels at but we want to | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
go beyond that. We want to measure the things which are the principal | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
results for patients, and see them improve, things like measuring | :24:34. | :24:41. | |
survival after diagnosis. Let us go on to details. First of all, the | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
British attitude survey. This shows satisfaction with the NHS. It has | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
gone from 34% satisfaction in 1997 to 70% in 2010. Quite an | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
achievement for the last government. Well you're reforms take | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
satisfaction rates higher by 2015? A one of the things I was going to | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
say, when you look at the results, part of it is measuring patients | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
experience. Well that go up? -- will that go up? That does not | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
measure that. It measures satisfaction. Well satisfaction | :25:17. | :25:26. | |
rise? We are measuring patients' experience. But it has not covered | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
all the things that need to be covered. If you were a young person | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
under the age of 16, your experience of the NHS was never | :25:34. | :25:43. | |
:25:44. | :25:44. | ||
measured. Let us stick... The short answer. This is a simple thing. The | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
British Social attitudes Survey is well respected. I know you are not | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
going to fund it any more, but The King's Fund will fund it. Will that | :25:53. | :25:57. | |
rise as a result of these reforms? Our objective is to improve the | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
results. What matters to patients is their experience, so we are | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
looking to improve the reports from patients of the quality of care | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
they experience. That is what matters. Likewise, we are looking | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
to people with long-term conditions, never measured in the past. For the | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
first time, we will measure the experience of quality of life for | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
people living at home with long- term conditions. There are 17 | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
million such people, with diabetes, asthma, respiratory diseases. They | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
need to know that we are measuring how we improve the quality of their | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
care. You are not answering that. More specifically, cancer survival | :26:37. | :26:46. | |
rates. Let us look up breast cancer as an example. This shows, in a | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
as an example. This shows, in a study by the Lancet, that England | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
lags behind Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Australia and Canada. Specifically, | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
will your reforms improve breast cancer survival rates? | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
intention is to ensure improvement intention is to ensure improvement | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
in one year and five year cancer survival rates. Nor will the | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
international average, but exceeding it. -- 0 below. We want | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
to have succeeded the international averages by 2015, and aim for the | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
best. If we were to achieve, across the main cancers, survival after | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
diagnosis that was amongst the best in the world, we could save up to | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
10,000 lives a year. If we do not move up the ladder, these reforms | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
will not have succeeded? That's right. The reforms are about | :27:39. | :27:45. | |
improving cancer survival. That is a specific way to judge it. Coming | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
on to the right of patients to be treated within 18 weeks, which is | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
enshrined in the NHS constitution. When you came to power there were | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
over 20,000 NHS patients, waiting more than 18 weeks. Will these | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
reforms result in fewer patients having to wait 18 weeks? Yes. The | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
objective is to meet the NHS constitution and improve it. You | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
have not mention the current figure, which is below 9000. We have more | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
than halved the number of patients waiting more than a year for | :28:17. | :28:26. | |
treatment. Again, if you do not see eight clear improvement on the 18 | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
weak figure and the number of patients waiting more, we can judge | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
that the reforms do not work? It is a constitutional right. We | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
are looking to improve the quality of the NHS. We can also demonstrate | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
how it will happen because in the document published this week on | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
improving public services more openly, were part of it is | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
precisely about giving patients more information so that when they | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
book operations they can see if the hospital that they are booking with | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
his meeting its obligation to treat patients with an 18 weeks. You're | :29:03. | :29:12. | |
kidding us some yardsticks. -- you are giving us. Critics have charged | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
that what you're doing amounts to the privatisation of the health | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
the privatisation of the health the privatisation of the health | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
service. The Act allows NHS service. The Act allows NHS | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
hospitals to use half of their best for private patients. -- half of | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
their beds. Is it any wonder that people suggest you are privatising | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
the health service? It allows the hospital foundation trusts to | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
secure private income. If Moorfields Hospital sets up a | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
clinic in Dubai, which they have done, they may secure private | :29:44. | :29:50. | |
income. It has not affected the availability of beds. You pick a | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
specific hospital, but in general foundations will be allowed to take | :29:54. | :30:01. | |
up to 49% of private patients. only if the effect of that, of | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
whatever they do in terms of private income, is to benefit NHS | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
patients. They have to demonstrate how it will benefit NHS patients. | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
The largest proportion of private income of any hospital in the | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
country is the Royal Marsden, who have about 27%. Again, you pick a | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
specialist London hospital. They have 26% private income and they | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
have consistently excellent performance in terms of their | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
services to NHS patients. The two things are not contradictory. | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
people watching this and experts in terms of the health service, they | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
simply say, look, if you increase the number of private health beds, | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
surely it follows that there will be fewer for NHS patients. That | :30:46. | :30:52. | |
does not fall tall. Why not? If the NHS were to put alongside its | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
existing facilities a joint venture with an international hospital | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
group to provide services to patients from overseas, and there | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
are hospitals to have done that and we'll do it in the future, does | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
that reduce the services for NHS patients? I think we have to be | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
clear, under legislation set this out, that they cannot cross | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
subsidise any private activity. Private activity, which may be for | :31:16. | :31:25. | |
international patients, has to You want doctors to be able to | :31:25. | :31:31. | |
refer patients to private providers. It they are qualified to provide to | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
NHS patients. You get the private sector provides more services and | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
the NHS less and less? We have set up a level playing field. It is not | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
a matter of not caring. I want to get the best services for patients, | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
and from my point of view, what I also care about is not | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
discriminating against the NHS. Under Labour, they introduced | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
contracts for private sector to do NHS operations, they pay them more | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
than the NHS, they told NHS hospitals that they could not | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
compete for those contracts, and they ended up paying �250 million | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
to private hospitals for operations that never took place. The | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
legislation, for the first time, prevents any government | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
discriminating in favour of private providers. If more procedures are | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
done by private providers, within the NHS... Widely assumed that | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
would be the case? I said Ife. Let's not assume that. Does it | :32:31. | :32:37. | |
matter to you that the NHS will end up with fewer clinical facilities? | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
I do not think it will. It did, would it matter? The legislation is | :32:42. | :32:48. | |
clear. If there were any services that the NHS required in an area, | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
NHS phone services, not just private ones, that when necessary | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
in order to maintain services, the regulator would step in to ensure | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
they were maintained. I think what worries people, political donations | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
of very big in the news, as you well know right now. Your party has | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
had 300 donations from private healthcare companies, totalling | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
over �8 million in 11 years, over 100 Tory peers and MPs have | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
connections to private healthcare. No wonder people are worried about | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
privatising it. There is nothing in the legislation which permits | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
privatisation of NHS services. took 8 million from healthcare | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
providers. I have never looked at it. You should. He fact of the | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
matter is that I have been the party's spokesman on health for 8 | :33:35. | :33:42. | |
1/2 years. At no stage, in no way, has anybody secured any influence | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
over our policy by giving donations. They just give it out of the | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
kindness of their hearts! Presumably because they supported | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
the Conservative Party. Because you are expanding their business. | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
is nothing in the legislation, as you yourself have said, you'll | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
postulating a hypothesis about the private sector doing better than | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
the NHS. It is perfectly possible that NHS hospitals, not | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
discriminated against in the way that Labour did, can deliver better | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
and more efficient services, and they are doing that at the moment. | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
We are seeing productivity increases that we did not see under | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
Labour, and that means NHS hospitals will be in a stronger | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
place to provide services that patients need. Jo questions about | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
where we go from here. If you are re-elected in 2015, can you give a | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
pledge that there will be no more major reorganisation of the NHS? | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
The manifesto for 2015 was at that out. The legislation is very clear. | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
I'm not asking for that, you gave a pledge, and I do not think you can | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
or want to, that there will be no more major reorganisation. From my | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
point of view, and I'm sure the same will be true for David, the | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
point of this legislation was to deal with all of the issues that | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
are required, to deal with all the reforms that are required in order | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
to sustain the NHS in the 21st century. To that extent, it should | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
give stability for a long period of time. You will not try to reverse | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
the changes that were forced on you by the Lib Dems in the Lords. | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
no. You can see in the Lords, it was a positive and constructive | :35:16. | :35:21. | |
process. He talked about lots of amendments, but we made amendments | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
through a process of constructive debate and agreement. There were 32 | :35:27. | :35:31. | |
votes in the Lords. We actually only last two, one of which we | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
accepted, and another where Lord Patel of Bradford put forward an | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
alternative which we were happy with. To that extent, we have | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
agreed that the legislation, by its nature, has a degree of additional | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
reassurance and compromise. This has been an unpleasant road for you. | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
Do you have regrets? My regret is that, if you recall, you show it on | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
your package, one year ago we had to pause the legislation in order | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
to have more engagement with staff. It is perfectly clear that although | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
we consulted on the white paper more than 18 months ago, actually | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
many of the organisations that responded did not get to grips with | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
what was in the legislation. So too have had that kind of engagement | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
with the NHS Future Forum would have been better earlier. Given | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
your unpopularity with huge swathes of health professionals, would it | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
not be better to let someone else come in and implement these reforms | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
now? You are damaged goods in the eyes of the health industry. | :36:29. | :36:35. | |
They're a kind of you to say so! It is what some trade unions say. -- | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
and very kind of you. Others say different things. They all know | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
that for eight and a half years, as party spokesman, I have been at | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
advocate and a supporter of the NHS. They know that under this coalition | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
government, we have increased resources for the NHS in real terms | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
each year. Has it destroyed your political career? It has not. | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
still have one? My career has a purpose from my point of view, and | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
it is not personal. It is a passion for insuring the NHS is in a | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
stronger place in the future, to give greater service and benefits | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
to patients. As he demonstrated, the quality we deliver to patients | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
in the future will be my intention. You have given us some yardsticks, | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
I hope you will come back to speak to us if you're still Secretary of | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
State for Health. Thank you for joining us. You are watching Sunday | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
politics. Coming up in 20 minutes, I will be looking at the week ahead | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
with our political panel. Until then, the Sunday Politics across | :37:35. | :37:45. | |
:37:45. | :37:48. | ||
Hello, welcome to the London part of the Sunday Politics, where we | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
have had a moment the first of our interviews with the main candidates | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
who would be mayor. A little later, after winning a seat in the London | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
Assembly four years ago, the BNP faces the electorate in London | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
again. What future for them at the party infighting and defeat at the | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
polls? But first, with me today is the greens mayoral candidate, Jenny | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
Jones, one of two Green members of the London Assembly. She was also a | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
long-standing member of the former Metropolitan Police Authority which | :38:18. | :38:26. | |
was recently abolished. First off, why could you do this job? Well, I | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
was at City Hall and have been there for 12 years. I have kept the | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
two mayors to account. I feel like I know how it runs. Plus the Green | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
Party has the best ideas, radical, fresh ideas, and I think we could | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
create a London that would be more equal, fair and healthier for | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
everybody. That his opposition. What is the proof of competence of | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
running an organisation that controls a budget of �15 billion? | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
It is going to be a big job, and that is why they are so few people | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
have wanted these days. But I have watched the budget go through, I | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
paid a key role in some budget discussions, and I think I know | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
enough about how the system works to actually do an extremely good | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
job. You also depend a lot on your advisers, that is a crucial | :39:12. | :39:18. | |
component. Something that is very topical, the current threat of | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
tanker drivers to strike. Is that something that you could see as an | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
opportunity to say to people, you don't need to be so dependent on | :39:27. | :39:32. | |
cars? That is absolutely right, and it is a shocking example of how | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
this government has failed to understand the needs and pressures | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
of climate change. If they had been moving us towards a less oil | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
dependent economy, they could have been doing that for two years, we | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
would not be in the same position. It is a shocking indictment of | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
their lack of understanding. Do you welcome the strike in that respect? | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
It might change behaviour. I do not welcome the strike, it puts | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
pressure on people, and I do not support that, but the Greens think | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
that transport, public transport should be cheaper than driving. | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
That is something we would aim to bring in in London. When you see | :40:05. | :40:11. | |
people queuing, panicked, to fill their cars with petrol, deer have | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
sympathy for that? Or to find it amusing? I have huge sympathy, it | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
is an impossible situation to be put in. Many people leave their | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
cars, I accept that, but the government could have avoided this. | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
In some ways, it is an example, I think, of their immaturity as a | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
government, because to create the panic they were trying to avoid is | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
very incompetent. You say that people need their cars, how much? | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
How much more difficult or costly would you make it for them to use | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
cars? Well, we have a scheme that we would research, and we would | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
probably wait three years, and during those three years we would | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
engage with people in London, the business community, the elderly, | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
the disabled, people who feel they need their cars, and then we would | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
introduce a pay-as-you-drive pricing system for the roads. | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
Successive governments have promised this in opposition. When | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
they get into government, they fail because it is a frightening | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
prospect. How much would it cost per mile? We did some research last | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
year, and the price that was sort of worked out, and we have not | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
decided it yet because we need to consult, what about 32p per mile, | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
and that would bring in approximately �1.2 billion that we | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
could pay for the scheme and also reinvest in public transport. | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
Different rates at different times? This is all up for discussion, but | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
I would hope so. I hope that residential roads would cost more | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
to drive on then Maine Road. We want to keep traffic on main roads | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
and allow people who live in pleasant areas did hit those areas | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
pleasant. What is the effect of VAT on business? That is exactly why we | :41:47. | :41:54. | |
need to consult. If businesses say no, it will clobber us, we are | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
dependent... We look for ways to help them. A ways to drop the | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
policy? I don't think so, it has to happen. It has to happen somewhere | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
in Britain, and London is the perfect place to start. For | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
businesses, I chaired something called London Food, and we | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
discussed how to make it easier for small businesses to get food | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
supplies of all sorts by creating hubs around the outside of London. | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
It would mean fewer lorry journeys and more access to small businesses. | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
Would road-pricing replace congestion charging? Absolutely. | :42:27. | :42:32. | |
You want to see that go up, don't you? We want to see it raised to | :42:32. | :42:37. | |
�15 for an ordinary car but �40 for a gas guzzler. How many were that | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
affect? Hopefully, very few, because we want to deter them. We | :42:41. | :42:47. | |
do not want them on our roads. Penalising families? Not all | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
families have gas-guzzlers. I think gas-guzzlers are a lifestyle choice. | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
We have a real problem with air pollution in London at the moment. | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
It is causing 4,300 premature deaths, at least, every year, plus | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
it gives children asthma, problems for people with lung problems or | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
heart problems. We have to clean up our air, and we have to do it by | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
any means possible. If you had that money, what would it enable you to | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
do one terms of public transport fares? We would keep them below | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
inflation for the whole four year term. If he did not implement that | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
policy, what would you do if you inherited the Budget now about | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
fares? If we put up the congestion charge, we would still have the | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
money to reduce fares. It can be done. If you inherited Boris | :43:34. | :43:39. | |
Johnson's budget, or Ken Livingstone, what would you do? | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
would not be coming in with the same position. We have a different | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
policy and we would reduce theirs. When? We would reduce... We would | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
reduce fares immediately. We will put up the congestion charge as | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
soon as humanly possible, which would generate the funds to bring | :43:54. | :43:59. | |
fares down. I thought the pledge was to freeze fares for the first | :43:59. | :44:04. | |
few years. I think that might be a different party. By as much as Ken | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
Livingstone, 7%? Probably not, it depends how much we raise from the | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
congestion charge. So a direct hypothecation? The congestion | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
charge would go into the affairs? And other parts of the public | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
transport network. Would you be prepared to see a delay in | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
investment in infrastructure? Absolutely not! This is something | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
the other political parties talk about as if lowering fares and not | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
investing in transport, you know, that you cannot do both. In fact | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
you can do both, lower fares and invest in infrastructure, which is | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
crucial, and we can do it with the Budget we have got at the moment. | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
Policing, do you think the Metropolitan Police is spending too | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
much on phone-hacking inquiry? think probably they are spending | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
too much, but there is huge public pressure on them to carry on. The | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
fact is that they have had some very savage cuts this year. I have | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
called for a moratorium on cuts to the policing budget. We were told | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
this week it could end up costing �40 million. What you do? If they | :45:04. | :45:13. | |
are spending too much, is there It is a case of getting the | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
Commissioner to rebalance his priorities. I think we can | :45:16. | :45:21. | |
investigated but at a slower pace. I want to make sure the child | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
protection is properly funded. about the victims of phone hacking | :45:24. | :45:31. | |
that want closure on this? course, of course. There are crimes | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
against persons that I think at this stage ought to take priority. | :45:35. | :45:42. | |
For example, we do not investigate enough in -- put enough into rape | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
investigation and child protection services, and Paul Heaton -- | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
policing our roads. What about cutting the number of police | :45:48. | :45:55. | |
officers? This obsession is mad. Why not cut them? I would certainly | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
make sure that we have enough backroom staff to make sure the | :45:59. | :46:02. | |
police officers we have are out there on the streets doing the jobs | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
that people want them to do. At the moment we have a shelf. We do not | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
have enough staff. Cup the backroom staff, that is what the current | :46:11. | :46:17. | |
administration has been doing. is what they have been doing. I am | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
saying I would not do that. The previous administration... If you | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
can't backroom staff, the police officers will need to do those jobs. | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
That is the case. The current administration cut backroom staff | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
and so the police officers are actually not out doing what they | :46:37. | :46:43. | |
should be doing, they are actually in call centres, doing desk work. | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
That is ludicrous. So the case is to reinstate those backroom staff, | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
but obviously that costs. You will then cut the number of police | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
officers to make that happen. would get rid of them through | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
natural wastage. Last year, the current administration spent �6 | :47:02. | :47:09. | |
million getting rid of 900 staff. That means there are now 1500 less | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
staff. Police staff cost less than police officers so there has been a | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
reorganisation of the budget to keep expensive police officers at | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
the cost of backroom staff. What is a fair level, what is a functional | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
level of policing? That is very difficult to say without having all | :47:26. | :47:34. | |
the figures in front of. But I would say that 28,000 seemed an | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
appropriate level when we reach that level under Ken Livingstone. I | :47:37. | :47:47. | |
:47:47. | :47:48. | ||
would investigate whether that is appropriate. Briefly, when a recent | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
poll looked at what Londoners believed across the parties, who | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
had the best policies on issues like the environment, six or 7% | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
said you. I think that is pretty good. I think most people don't | :48:02. | :48:09. | |
know what our policies are. It is difficult for us to get our | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
policies out. People do not know that we have social policies. That | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
is quite heartening. In the same elections four years ago, the BNP | :48:17. | :48:24. | |
won a seat on the London Assembly for the first time. His can -- the | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
candidate later fell out with the party leadership and is now an | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
independent. It is one and a series of disastrous election results. | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
Four years ago, the BNP won their first seat on the London Assembly. | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
Some of the candidates were so appalled they refuse to share a | :48:42. | :48:52. | |
:48:52. | :48:52. | ||
platform with a member. Like rats leaving a sinking ship. Richard Tom | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
Brook at the right to question the mayor and build a profile. | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
rapid replacement of the white British population. For life was | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
not made easy for him. Boris Johnson refused to make eye contact | :49:06. | :49:12. | |
or address him directly. Do you know, I do not think I can think of | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
an answer for that question. you do not have to. Away from city | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
hall, the party has been beset by problems. In 2010, Nick Griffin | :49:22. | :49:30. | |
fails to win a parliamentary seat. The message from Barking to the BNP | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
is clear. Get out and stay out. the same night, they lost all 12 | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
seats on the council of Barking and Dagenham. The party lost money and | :49:43. | :49:49. | |
members. Eddie Butler was one of them. Formerly a senior figure, he | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
challenged Nick Griffin for the leadership but was then expelled | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
from the BNP. He went on to join the English Democrats and blames | :49:57. | :50:03. | |
Britain for many of his old party's problems. -- Nick Griffin. In the | :50:03. | :50:06. | |
run-up to the election, Nick Griffin publicly accused his public | :50:06. | :50:12. | |
-- publicity director of trying to kill him. It was not exactly... The | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
charges were dropped because it was a ridiculous allegation. That is | :50:15. | :50:24. | |
not good publicity. It has imploded. The financial and political | :50:24. | :50:31. | |
allegations, the membership has declined by probably three-quarters. | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
Richard Barnbrook also left the party but stayed on at the Assembly | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
as an independent. That has left the BNP without a single elected | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
representative in London. Even in areas like Barking and Dagenham | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
where they once hoped to return a member to Parliament and even | :50:46. | :50:51. | |
control the council. The election to the London Assembly is very | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
different. You need a concentrated support in one particular place and | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
you need to be popular. To get on the London Assembly, you only need | :50:59. | :51:05. | |
about 5% of the vote spread across the entire city. Not beyond the | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
reach of the BNP according to a group which campaigns against their | :51:09. | :51:14. | |
party. The BNP have a brand name, still. Whatever is going on | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
internally, the voters are not going to know about that. They know | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
what the BNP stands for, and there is obviously a group of voters who | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
find that quite appealing. In this election, the BNP might have a | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
different appeal. The party, famous for their anti-immigrant stance, or | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
trying something new. Their candidate is an immigrant from | :51:36. | :51:42. | |
Uruguay. Campaigning with little money, much of his focus has been | :51:42. | :51:48. | |
online. We found that he has started up logs hosted by the Daily | :51:48. | :51:58. | |
:51:58. | :52:02. | ||
Telegraph and Jewish Chronicle. The The Jewish Chronicle said they | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
stopped imposing when they found out he was a BNP candidate but has | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
not removed what was already up on the internet. It is issues like | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
transport which will dominate the mayoral race. What is the BNP | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
candidate's message on public transport? I directly oppose the | :52:21. | :52:28. | |
initiative of Boris Johnson for giving us an automatic underground | :52:28. | :52:33. | |
service. I think it is a scandal and with the rise in unemployment, | :52:33. | :52:38. | |
they're talking about using robots instead of people. And on the | :52:38. | :52:42. | |
signature issue, immigration, he strikes a less radical line than | :52:42. | :52:48. | |
some might expect. We only oppose those who were not legally here. | :52:48. | :52:58. | |
:52:58. | :53:01. | ||
Anybody who is legally here, we This is Steve Squire, BNP candidate | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
for the London Assembly. Using more traditional language, or of a one- | :53:05. | :53:15. | |
:53:15. | :53:19. | ||
Do you agree with the statement that all businesses that -- all | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
businesses in London seemed to be owned by newcomers and immigrants? | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
If they are legally entitled, even if they are immigrants, I have no | :53:28. | :53:34. | |
issue with them. Because that is something that Steve said ornate | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
p&p video on your website as part of your London campaign. -- all on | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
a BNP video. Maybe you're giving one message to the internet and | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
another message to the BBC. Come and ask me tomorrow and I'll give | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
you the same answer. You are not interviewing anybody else, you are | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
talking to me. If you want to know what I think, asked me. Voters will | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
have five weeks to decide what they think of the BNP and their | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
candidates. If these scenes are not repeated, it will be seen by many | :54:04. | :54:13. | |
as a sign of a party in decline. Jenny Jones, the BNP are in trouble. | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
The Greens had 10 councillors in London in 2010 and now only had two. | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
Is this the end of small parties two at the last election, Labour | :54:22. | :54:29. | |
stepped up its game. I do not see that happening again any time soon. | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
You are telling supporters to vote for Ken Livingstone as a second | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
preference. I am suggesting that they could and that would be | :54:36. | :54:42. | |
appropriate. Is it appropriate or is it electoral suicide? Are you | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
saying you do not want existing Liberal Democrat supporters to vote | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
for you. I'm saying I would like everyone to vote Green because I | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
think a green Mayer would make a huge difference. But if you cannot | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
have a green Mayer, and it is likely that the two final | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
contenders will be Boris and Ken, we are saying that we can work with | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
Ken because we have worked with him before. Are you saying that | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
Conservative voters or Lib Dem voters should not vote for you, | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
that you do not offer what works for them? Of course not. People | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
will make up the raw mind on our policies. The fact is, it has | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
proved impossible to work with Boris Johnson and I regret that | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
because I liked getting things done and a light co-operative working. | :55:26. | :55:32. | |
It was not possible. We know we can work with can. Many people are a | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
good is Ken Livingstone who has been divisive in the past and Boris | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
Johnson is a consensual politician. That is not my experience. Where | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
have you not achieved areas of policy in the last four years that | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
you think you might have done before. --? Hundreds of areas. For | :55:50. | :55:57. | |
example, I took an idea to Boris Johnson which was to allow | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
borrowers to bring in a default of 20mph. Eight boroughs were willing | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
to go ahead with this but he could not conceive of it and refused to | :56:05. | :56:10. | |
give the money to those areas. When he was elected, he promised that he | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
would not have -- he would not interfere in Barra decisions. But | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
clearly he ignored that. He proved to me that we could not work | :56:19. | :56:28. | |
together. He says that his has been a cycling revolution. Superhighways, | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
a bike hire scheme. Surely you could have worked with him on this? | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
All those ideas were worked up between me and TfL before Boris | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
came in. But he missed out on a third very important component, | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
which was to boost the cycling numbers beyond any sort of | :56:47. | :56:54. | |
expectations, by funding cycling outside of the boroughs. Boris | :56:54. | :57:00. | |
Johnson did not do that. He did not put in the third element. He spent | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
some time with the protesters at St Paul's. We have seen disruption at | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
the Olympic site this week. Do you approve of that? I think they | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
should not have been building on greenfield sites. It is completely | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
wrong. They build on Hackney Marshes and they're putting | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
basketball pitches on Leyton Marsh. I think that is wrong. I have | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
sympathy with the local people as sympathy with the local people as | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
well as the occupy movement. Here is a full list of all the other | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
is a full list of all the other candidates standing in the election. | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
In two weeks time, we will be talking to Brian Paddick. Back to | :57:34. | :57:44. | |
:57:44. | :57:48. | ||
So we have had panic-buying at the petrol pumps, rows over past these | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
and the return of Gorgeous George to Parliament. Let us discuss it | :57:52. | :58:02. | |
:58:02. | :58:06. | ||
Nick, taking the place of Isabel, we like to give you some work | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
experience, the Government is seen as being out of touch and | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
incompetent. According to the polls. Is this a passing phase, a mid-term | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
blues, or is it a game changer in public perceptions? I do not think | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
it is game changer territory because for something to be a game | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
changer it has to affect the fundamental issue that matters, | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
which is the economy. It appears that on the economy the | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
Conservatives are ahead of Labour at the moment because people are | :58:32. | :58:35. | |
not listening to the Labour message because people believe that the | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
deficit has to be dealt with. I am not sure it is a game changer but I | :58:40. | :58:43. | |
think it is an issue that could define the Government and define | :58:43. | :58:48. | |
them in a dangerous way, as out of touch, posh and particularly | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
dangerously, cynical. The reason I say that is that there was an | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
agreed coalition line on the fuel staff, which is essentially, let's | :58:56. | :59:02. | |
give cautious warning to the public. Francis Maude ratcheted that up, | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
why? Because he saw it as a Thatcher moment. It was the | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
equivalent of Thatcher stockpiling coal before the strike in 1984. The | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
difference was that that did not inconvenience the public and this | :59:14. | :59:19. | |
did. Maybe they should learn to stop having Thatcher moments and | :59:19. | :59:27. | |
they might get on better. Clearly, some things -- something is awry, | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
and you can tell that because the usual suspects on the Tory side are | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
ganging up, David Davis and so on. They think that a watershed is | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
taking place. And the Tory leaning press has been incredibly critical | :59:40. | :59:46. | |
since the Budget. I think it speaks to David Cameron's indifference to | :59:46. | :59:50. | |
media management or press management. He is always more | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
interested in broadcasting the newspapers. It also speaks to this | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
recurrent criticism made of Number Ten, and a perceived lack of grip | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
at Number Ten has. The worrying thing is that in Westminster there | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
is no conclusive answer to the question, who runs Downing Street? | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
You would have been able to answer that under Tony Blair because | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
Alastair Campbell and Jonathan Powell were very dominant | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
politically. But Downing Street his foot -- Downing Street is full of | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
technocrats rather than political operators. As it dawned on them | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
that they face a fatwa in the Murdoch press? You only have to | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
read the papers to see that the Murdoch press is out to destroy | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
this government. I did is obvious will be grievance is. I think they | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
are letting them know that they're angry. -- I think it is obvious | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
what the grievance is. Is it not more likely that Murdoch will be | :00:41. | :00:48. | |
more angry with the Labour Party in 2015? When you're out for revenge, | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
you will have many partners to share your views. Maybe it may not | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
be a game changer because of the situation with Labour. They have | :00:57. | :01:02. | |
lost in Scotland, they have lost in Bradford West. Kumble local | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
elections, if they lose in Glasgow and London, which they could do, | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
then the story we will be writing about will be Mr Miliband's | :01:11. | :01:18. | |
Politicians have been punching themselves in the face all week, | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
but what is interesting in Bradford, quite a specific campaign similar | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
to Scotland, is that it was not a referendum on Ed Miliband or even | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
the economy, but it was George Galloway had a brilliant local | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
campaign. It was positive, it had a vision that was grounded in | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
Bradford, and he showed leadership and had alliances with the faith | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
groups and working class communities. Meanwhile, Labour was | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
just running a completely anti-Tory message, which was very negative | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
and not grounded in Bradford. It is interesting that it is similar to | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
Scotland. They assumed that the big opponent was the Tories, when that | :01:57. | :02:06. | |
was just a fallacy. We heard from Michael Dugher that it was a social | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
media campaign, but Ed Miliband was meant to be the Bobby Kennedy of | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
the time, and the utterly failed. The problem is that they have been | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
six by-elections in Great Britain since the general election, Labour | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
have won 5, but there are signs they are not getting through in | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
areas where they should be. They did really badly in the Scottish | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
general election in 2011, because they were not seen as credible | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
opposition. The most important vote is not London, it is Glasgow. If | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
Labour loses control of Glasgow in May, people will be asking very | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
serious questions. I am not saying they will, but PSN Day think they | :02:45. | :02:53. | |
will take Labour. Serious Labour think they are in trouble. The big | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
implications for our foreign policy will be discussed in parliament. | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
There is the question of Afghanistan and Syria, and possibly | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
this year there will be the question of an Iran-is a conflict | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
over nuclear weapons. Those issues are discussed sensibly because of | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
the convention that politics stops at the water's edge, but George | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
Galloway will not observe that. this a high watermark for George | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
Galloway now that he has had this amazing victory, he becomes one MP | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
among 600? Speaking on foreign issues, he does not lead a party, | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
very much an individual, an impressive individual, but is this | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
as good as it gets? I think that is right, but he seems to be | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
supporting Labour and their traditional way of doing politics, | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
and the vision you are talking about of Ed Miliband being the | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
change candidate, and he seemed really in favour of that. He is | :03:42. | :03:48. | |
almost restoring sang something. The interesting thing will be the | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
local elections and the mayorals. The campaign is very difficult what | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
happened in Scotland and Bradford, because it is locally grounded and | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
has a positive vision for London in a way that the other two did not. | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
Will George Galloway be tempted back on to Big Brother? He has said | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
he is a teetotaller, but will he want to sit milk when he was a cat? | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
Is he going to be a serious person? It did not stop him winning! | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
will have the Chilcot Inquiry published before summer, George | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
Galloway will be responding to that. He was going to carry the can in | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
government for this past week and the fact it may be a | :04:26. | :04:34. | |
transformational week? Who is at there? Whose jacket is hanging by a | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
pay? I will explain that later! Is it Francis Maude, Craig Oliver, | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
Baroness Warsi, the unseen chairman of the Tory party? You would assume | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
with a name like Cameron that the Prime Minister would understand. | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
comes from much further up! There is talk that the Tories need a more | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
vociferous and prominent party chairman, but it has never been an | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
important role in Cabinet. I do not think they would change their | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
approach to that. The Prime Minister has to carry the can when | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
things go wrong, in terms of basic competence and communications. | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
will have to... So much to talk about and we have run out of time | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
again! That is all for this week. We are not on their bodies to | :05:18. | :05:23. |