Browse content similar to 15/07/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. An epic spat in | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
the Commons with Tories queuing up to strangle Nick Clegg's plans to | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
reform the Lords. This morning, the Prime Minister has appealed to | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
backbenchers and coalition partners alike not to descend into division | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
and navel-gazing. That is our top story. | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
And an Olympic-sized fiasco over security for the Games. Who is for | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
the high jump? Yvette Cooper is this week's Sunday interview. | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
Our political panel of the best and brightest here every week to | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
analyse British politics in The Week Ahead and tweeting with the | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
speed of Usain Bolt throughout the programme. | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
The Olympics are 12 days away. How will the London Transport programme | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
code and what were the legacy be? How secure can we make the 2012 | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
Games? All of that coming up in the next | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
hour but first the news. Many thanks. It has emerged that | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
the Government was warned about problems with the G4S contract to | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
provide security staff for the Olympics 10 months ago. Concerns | :01:54. | :02:02. | |
were raised by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary. The | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
Home Office insists that matters were resolved earlier this year. | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
The questions keep coming for the security firm G4S. So they keep | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
coming, too, for the Government. Who knew what and when? Could this | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
problem have been spotted earlier and sorted out sooner? This is a | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
disaster as far as people are concerned. It is almost threatening | :02:24. | :02:30. | |
to spoil the party. What we need to do now is to pull together and make | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
sure that they deliver the Games that everybody wants, the Greatest | :02:34. | :02:40. | |
Show on Earth. No, insist ministers, this will not spoil the party or | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
the Games. There was always a back- up plan to bring in more troops | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
like these if there was a problem. The military were always going to | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
have a significant role keeping us save at the Olympics, but that role | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
is now rather bigger. The Government says this hitch is not | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
that surprising given the scale of the Olympics but they were in the | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
dark about G4S's failure to recruit enough staff until a couple of days | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
ago. We of course have been monitoring the situation with G4S. | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
Their management told us right up until last week that everything was | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
on track. The moment that they didn't, we put in place a | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
contingency plan, but we have had that plan for many months. We are | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
very lucky to have fantastic armed services. Labour say that ministers | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
have been complacent. The G4S there are more questions to come. Their | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
chief executive will face MPs at Westminster on Tuesday. | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
The Syrian Government has denied using tanks and helicopters in its | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
assault on the village of Tremseh. UN inspectors are due to return to | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
the area today to continue their investigations into what exactly | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
happened. Our correspondent is in Beirut. The Syrian Government | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
clearly putting up a strong defence of its actions this morning. That | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
is right. Basically they are saying that this was a targeted attack on | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
several buildings in the village used as bases by what they call | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
terrorists, armed rebels in other words. That co-ordinates with what | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
the UN observers of binding on the ground. After their first visit | :04:14. | :04:20. | |
yesterday they reported it was a specific attack on opposition | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
activists and not an all-out assault on the village killing | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
civilians. Where there is a discrepancy is in the use of heavy | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
weapons. The UN is sticking to its story that they have found evidence | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
of mortars and artillery being fired into the village, presumably | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
by Government forces, and the observers themselves last Thursday | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
saw a helicopter firing into the village, obviously a Government | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
helicopter. The Foreign Ministry spokesperson in Damascus, the | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
Syrian official, insists absolutely that Syrian forces did not use | :04:53. | :05:00. | |
tanks, artillery, anything happier than a rocket -- heavier than a | :05:00. | :05:07. | |
rocket-propelled grenade which can be used by one man. That is | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
contradictory to the UN observers' findings. Discrepancies. On the | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
issue of a massacre, the UN account seems to be closer to that of the | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
Syrian Government than it is to the activists on the ground, who said | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
there was a big massacre of civilians. Thank you. | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
Health trusts in the South West of England are considering imposing | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
pay cuts of up to 5% on staff in a bid to cut costs. 19 cuts are | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
suggesting changing the terms of conditions of doctors and nurses | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
with the threat of being sacked and rehired on new contracts if they | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
refuse. The trusts say they are looking at more flexible ways of | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
rewarding staff and they would consult with trade unions before | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
making changes. Amir Khan has lost his WBA and WBC | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
light welterweight unification fight against Danny Garcia at in | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
the early hours of this morning in Las Vegas. The fight was stopped in | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
the 4th round after Amir Khan had been not to the floor three times. | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
It is his second defeat in succession. -- knocked to the floor. | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
There is more news on BBC One at 7:30pm. | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
There are areas of profound differences between the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, as David Cameron in this morning's | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
Sunday Times said, as if we did not know. But he insists the coalition | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
is the right answer for Britain in troubled times but this has not | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
been a good week for coalition partners. The plans for Lords | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
reform has were mugged in the Commons by a series of Tory | :06:31. | :06:41. | |
:06:41. | :06:41. | ||
backbenchers looking for a fight. The scars will take a while to heal. | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
Monday, Nick Clegg presents his plan for reforming the House of | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
Lords. But dedicated individuals cannot compensate for flawed | :06:50. | :06:57. | |
institutions. This bill is about fixing a flawed institution. Behind | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
the scenes, Tory rebels were mobilising. 70 signed a letter | :07:02. | :07:08. | |
spelling out their objections, and what the Commons lose its power? He | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
wants a bunch of politicians anyway and why now? -- who wants a new | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
bunch? The Conservative whips applied the thumbscrews. I was | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
certainly being worked very hard. Several conversations on several | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
days including on the day of the vote. Several conversations about | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
my own reasoning behind it, my future, all sorts of things, and | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
that is their job. The arm-twisting was not enough. Just before 10 | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
o'clock on Tuesday night, the Commons voted on the plans. 91 | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
Conservatives rebelled, two of their ministerial aides who lost | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
their jobs. Then the Government step back from the brick, | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
withdrawing a programme motion, which is the bit of business that | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
set the parliamentary timetable. The coalition were almost certain | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
to lose the vote. In the House, the Prime Minister was losing his rag | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
with one of his backbenchers, Jesse Norman, to the astonishment of | :08:06. | :08:11. | |
those watching. He pointed his finger directly in Mr Norman's face. | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
He was red-faced and very aggressive. Mr Norman clearly did | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
not seem very happy but did not really respond adversely either. I | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
thought he dealt with the situation terribly well actually. That gave | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
Ed Miliband an opening at PMQs at midday on Wednesday. Mr Speaker, | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
last night he lost control of his party and not for the first time. | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
Not for the first time he lost his temper as well. A few hours later, | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
David Cameron faced his party at the 1922 Committee of backbench MPs. | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
Nick what of the Guardian had his ear to the door. Message number one | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
was that we are going to have one last go at this and we are not | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
going to go on about House of Lords reform for ever and then a second | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
message was that we should have a smaller elected element. This is | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
the George Osborne idea which she has been put into ministers, which | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
would be removing the 92 remaining hereditary peers and in 2015 you | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
would replace them with an elected element and that is all you would | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
do this Parliament. The Lords is in limbo. A bit like relations between | :09:16. | :09:25. | |
the Tories and the Lib Dems after this turbulent week. | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
The Lib Dem man in the Foreign Office is Jeremy Browne and he | :09:27. | :09:35. | |
joins us from Taunton. Good afternoon. What makes you think | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
that Tory rebels will change their minds over Lords reform by | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
September? Well, that is a conversation you should perhaps | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
have with them and the Conservatives. Nick Clegg lead a | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
completely unified party in the House of Commons to a majority of | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
338, I think, on Tuesday evening, in favour of a largely elected | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
democratic Parliament. In a way, the ball is in the Court of the | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
Conservatives and Labour because they have been playing games with | :10:03. | :10:09. | |
this legislation. They need to decide how they will take forward | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
the will of Parliament as expressed on Tuesday evening. I have had that | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
conversation with a number of Tory rebels and they have said they will | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
not change their minds and they expect the rebellion to be even | :10:18. | :10:25. | |
bigger next time because they have their bit between the -- their | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
teeth. We have the coalition agreement, entered into three by | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
the Lib Dems and the Conservatives. It is a contract of how we are | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
going to go about the coalition Government together. It is not | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
entirely conservative or entirely Liberal Democrat and it reflects | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
the fact that neither party won the general election. You cannot have | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
an approach where one party picks and chooses which bits of the | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
agreement they are going to honour. It is a package of measures as a | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
whole. I think the expectation should be that both parties will | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
honour their side of the contract, their obligations. They should | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
enact that overall package. If one party is reluctant about one part | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
of the package, they have to address that issue seriously | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
because, if you like, the ball is in their court. But my big | :11:13. | :11:21. | |
message... Go on? I am grateful to you for letting me interrupt you. | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
The Prime Minister is going to give it one last go, that is his exact | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
wording. It is hardly fighting them on the beaches. If I was a rebel, I | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
would think one last go and then it is over and I need to rebel one | :11:32. | :11:39. | |
more time. I think the rebels on the Conservative benches need to | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
remember that the Conservatives did not win the last general election | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
so they are not in the business of an act in their manifesto in full | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
and they have no mandate to act their manifesto in full. -- not in | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
the business of connecting their manifesto in full. There has to be | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
some give and take. There is a coalition Government between two | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
distinct political parties, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
and that agreement reflects the fact that no party won the general | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
election. I think some Conservative backbenchers are behaving as though | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
they won and no doubt they wish they had, but they did not. I wish | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
the Lib Dems had won but we did not either. There is some give and take | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
a both parties have to behave in a responsible, disciplined way. | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
Coming back to my first point, on Tuesday night, the Liberal | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
Democrats, Nick Clegg's party, which is a blend, aggressive and | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
Kevin Rudd. You have made that point twice. -- Nick Clegg's party | :12:40. | :12:49. | |
:12:50. | :12:50. | ||
were disciplined, aggressive and co-ordinated. In this long article, | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
David Cameron does not give a single word in favour of Lords | :12:56. | :13:02. | |
reform and yet this is meant to be a rallying cry to the rebels. | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
Jeremy Hunt saying that if it was up to him there would be 100% | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
elected House of Lords. So there is a range of views. Is the Prime | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
Minister's heart in it? I believe it is because he signed up to the | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
coalition agreement as a whole and it is contained within the | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
agreement. He voted along with me and an overwhelming majority of MPs | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
on Tuesday evening for a democratised Parliament. Let me | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
make this point. It is the crucial, underlying point. I strongly agree | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
with the point that you are driving at. We need to make sure that in | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
this country we have a coalition that is, if you like, well... The | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
worst type of coalitions are where the parties cannot agree on | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
anything and do nothing in particular. The best coalitions are | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
where the parties are more than the sum of their parts and they bid | :13:51. | :13:58. | |
reach other up, if you like, raised in the bar. It is good to have that | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
mindset and good for Britain to have an optimistic and ambitious | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
Government. That is the type of condition that we need to see. We | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
do see it but we need to see it more than we do at the moment. If | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
you like, the mentality for both parties should be what can we add | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
and not what can we subtract from the coalition and that will be in | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
the interest of the country as a whole. There we drag you back to | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
what you can deliver. You stress that this is a coalition where we | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
have to do things that we do not really like and they have to do | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
things they do not really like. If House of Lords reform is dead, our | :14:32. | :14:39. | |
boundary changes also dead? I am not sure that actually the | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
Conservatives don't really like House of Lords reform. What is the | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
answer to my question? Well, it was in their manifesto. David Cameron | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
and George Osborne and William Hague and others voted on Tuesday | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
evening for House of Lords reform. If House of Lords reform is dead, | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
Jeremy Browne, would you still vote for boundary changes? I don't | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
accept the premise of your question. It might be. I don't think it is a | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
tit-for-tat arrangement. There is a package of arrangements and | :15:10. | :15:16. | |
contained in it are a number of constitutional measured and you | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
have mentioned two, including other measures, and we are enacting that | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
package as a whole. For a sample, it directly-elected Police | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
Commissioners, which was in the Conservative manifesto and not | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
Liberal Democrat manifesto. -- for example. And in good faith we | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
enacted that part of the agreement even though it is a Conservative | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
policy. Might you still boat for boundary changes if you do not get | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
Lords reform? -- vote. That is a hypothetical question. It is a good | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
question. We have just had a massive majority in favour of House | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
of Lords reform. It is only in Alice-in-Wonderland politics where | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
it is called a disaster. No other country in the world looks at our | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
House of Lords and things that is the model they want for their | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
Parliament. We need to modernise it and have progressive change and | :16:11. | :16:19. | |
that is what Parliament voted for David Cameron has already started | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
to map out the outlines of what might be in the next Tory manifesto. | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
Are you going to start doing that for the Liberal Democrats as well? | :16:26. | :16:31. | |
Are you going to start going your separate ways before the May 2015 | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
election? Well we are less than half way through this Parliament. | :16:33. | :16:40. | |
So, I think people can get aahead of themselves. We will not have a | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
general election until May 2015. We are only in the summer of 2012. Of | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
course we are separate parties the Liberal Democrats will have a | :16:49. | :16:57. | |
separate manifesto and so will the Tories and the Labour Party. Is it | :16:57. | :17:03. | |
helpful of the Prime Minister giving we would like to see in the | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
Conservatives manifesto if he didn't have the Liberal Democrats | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
around his neck. Well the Conservatives didn't win the last | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
election. They may well not win a majority at the next general | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
election or subsequent ones either. I point I make and I come back to | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
it. The psychology of a successful coalition is that if I come with up | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
a fantastic idea for, for example, education, what I think is best is | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
if the coalition partner, rather than trying to water down my idea, | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
comes back with a fantastic idea of their own. In other words we bid | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
each other up and become more of the sum of our parts. We try to | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
have a healthy competition which isn't about... Oh, we seem to have | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
lost the line down it Taunton there, just as he was making a point. He | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
had already made most of it before, I think we got the gist of what | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
Jeremy Browne was saying. Thank you for joining us on the Sunday | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
Politics. The current row about G4S and the security fiasco at the | :17:59. | :18:02. | |
Olympics is a reminder if it is needed that being Home Secretary is | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
one of the toughest jobs in British politics but my Sunday interview | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
guest still wants the job. It may be one of the great offices of | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
state but the Home Office is also a graveyard for ministerial careers. | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
You've got to grip immigration. Over 3 million more people came to | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
this country than left it under the last Labour Government. A policy | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
they admit they got wrong. You have to run the police and keep law and | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
order while the Chancellor tightens the purse strings. You have to pray | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
prisoners don't leap the fence like they did under Home Secretary, | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
mourpd and hope that queues don't swamp Heathrow or riots don't | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
dominate the headlines as they did last summer. Perhaps most important | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
of all, it is your responsibility to stop terrorists mounting the | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
kind of attack on this country, the memory of which sends a shiver down | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
our collective spine. The woman who wants that job is Labour's Yvette | :18:59. | :19:08. | |
Cooper. She is my Sunday Interview. Let's try and find out what kind of | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
Home Secretary you would make. Let's start with immigration, | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
always a huge topic. Labour now says it was wrong on a number of | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
things about immigration. So, specifically what would the | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
immigration policies of Home Secretary Cooper be? Well you are | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
right we have said that there were things we didn't get right, | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
including we should have brought the points-based system in earlier | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
and we should have had transitional controls around Eastern Europe we. | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
Need to learn from that and look forward. So what would you do... | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
Let's park all that. Some of the things we would concentrate on | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
first of all is on illegal immigration. We know it is getting | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
worse. For example there has been a nearly 20% reduction in the number | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
of illegal migrants being stopped at Heathrow as rault of the | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
downgrading of security checks last year. -- as a result. We know there | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
is a 20% reduction in the number of foreign criminals dedeported. A | :20:03. | :20:06. | |
starting point for any system, if it is going to be fair, the rules | :20:06. | :20:14. | |
need to be be enforced. You need foreign db -- proper enforcement. | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
And a guy who raped a 12-year-old girl is in the news this morning, | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
from Sudan, he can not be deported because of your Human Rights Act. | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
don't note cases. We have said there is more action that needs to | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
be taken on foreign criminals but it has got worse in the last 12 | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
months. Since the election there is a reduction in the number being | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
deported not actually because of the courts but because the Borders | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
Agency is not teaking illegal immigration seriously or | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
enforcement and is not getting the bureaucracy right. The Home | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
Secretary took a decision to cut 5,000 staff from the Borders Agency, | :20:50. | :20:55. | |
putting huge pressure on. We are seeing it in what is happening at | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
Heathrow. Let's look at legal I will graigs before any cuts in the | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
borders. When you came to power there were just under 50,000 net | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
migration coming into this country. By the time you left office it had | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
risen to over 250,000 a year, net, coming in. | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
Looking at that, did you let too many people in? I think what you | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
saw was a huge increase in travel and trade, right across the world. | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
So you saw comparable increases in migration in most other western | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
European countries and most other in fact major western economies. | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
But we have said we should have had the points-based system in | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
earlier... You opposed the when the Tories proposed the in the 2005 | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
election. We introduced it but we should have introduced it earlier. | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
Did you let too many in? skilled migration I think has been | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
too high for some years. It does need to come down and that's why - | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
it is why we brought the points- based system in but I think it | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
needed to be tightened further. you did let too many people in? | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
have to lock at different kifpbdz migration. I understand that. I | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
will come on to the different times in a minute but overall did you let | :22:06. | :22:13. | |
too many in? Start for the different kinds. It matters. Low | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
skilled migration was too high we. Should have brought in a points- | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
based system and also the level of migration from Eastern Europe was | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
higher than we would have wanted. We didn't get the assessment of the | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
figures right at the time. I don't think however it was wrong to have | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
an an increase in legitimate foreign graduate students who are | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
coming to Britain to our universities and bringing billions | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
of pounds into our universities as well. It is important to recognise. | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
You can't just treat all migration as the same. That's what the | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
government is doing and their approach isn't working. | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
understand that. I'm still not if you think we let too many. In let's | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
look at the gross migration, the breakdown in figures. The last year | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
you were in power. 9 3thourd Brits came become into the country. You | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
will not stop them coming back. -- 93,000 Brits. 176,000 from the | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
European Union. We can't stop them coming. In it is not an Irish this | :23:09. | :23:17. | |
morning but 3 22,000, by far the biggest bulk came from outside the | :23:17. | :23:25. | |
EU. That is in our control. Would you support this number? We have | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
supported proposals that the government has proposed. | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
That reduces the number. You would reduce that. In You want to reduce | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
low skilled migration. Because that affects such a large proportion, it | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
does have an impact on the overall level as well. So if you would | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
reduce that, can you give us any kind of ballpark then of what you, | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
as Home Secretary, would regard as a proper level of net migration. | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
You left us with 250,000 coming neverry year. What would you aim | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
for? We have said issues around controls, targets, caps and limits | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
is something we need to do considerable work on as a result. | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
Give me a figure. I think it is important we do this in a serious | :24:06. | :24:12. | |
and steady way. The Government has picked out a ballpark figure. | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
etrying not to interrupt you but I am. I'm not interested in the | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
Government. I'm interested in you. For someone who has apologised for | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
previous immigration policy I'm trying to get a rough idea of what | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
you think in the 21st century, a net migration ballpark figure | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
should be, what is it? Sure. The Government did what you are asking | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
me to do now. To pick a figure out of thin air. David Cameron did that. | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
He said he wanted to reduce net migration from 250,000 to the tens | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
of thousands. In fact that hasn't worked. As a result... You can't | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
give me faiing. We haven't seen the net migration figure changing and | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
also the condition sequence of what he is doing by bundling up net | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
migration, as you are asking me to do, is instead to end up trying to | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
cut the number of serious graduate students. I don't think your | :25:00. | :25:02. | |
apology will count for much among viewers if you can't give us an | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
idea of what you think the scale of immigration should be. Well you | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
know what you are asking me to do is you are asking me to do what the | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
Government has done and that isn't working. I think you should look | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
separately for example at what is happening with students, you should | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
look separately at what is happening with low skill migration | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
and particularly, there is a whole lot of immigration which doesn't | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
even count in the Government's net migration figure that you want to | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
target. For example, student visitor visas and student visitor | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
visas are going up. It is not included in the Government's | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
figures and they are not foe cousin on that. On crime and prisons and | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
crime, would you be a David Blunkett Labour Home Secretary or a | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
Roy Jenkins Labour Home Secretary? Well I think the approach that we | :25:47. | :25:55. | |
took in fact... What would you be? We said tough on crime and the | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
causes of crime. That's the awere proch that David and Tony Blair | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
took and a series of Labour Home Secretaries took. It has worked. We | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
had crime fall. It fell everywhere in Europe and America. If I had | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
promised new 1997 that crime would fall by 40% you would not have | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
believed a word of it. It did happen. It was as a result of the | :26:18. | :26:23. | |
approach we took. I'm trying to get you to look forward not backwards. | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
Bear with me it, a thing we journalists have. I'm trying to | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
work out what you would do. Let me show you what your leader says. You | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
said when Ken Clarke says we need to look at short sentences in | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
prison because of high reoffending rates, I'm not going say he's soft | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
on crime. Every time the Tories do something, you come at them from | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
the right. Even the Justice Secretary said | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
they are taking risks with public safety. You have to look at | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
community sentences, where they work and what you can do to prevent | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
reoffending. Is your leader right in saying that high reoffending | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
means we have to look at short sentences or is Sadiq Khan, your | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
Justice Secretary right, in saying that the Justice Secretary are | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
taking risks. They are both right. How can they both be right? Some of | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
the things Ken Clarke wanted to do, he wanted to end up, I think it was | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
substantially reducing rape sentences. I don't think that is | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
the right thing to do. I think that is Ken Clarke getting the balance | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
wrong. There are o areas of course where you want to prevent | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
reoffending but I do think the Home Secretary is taking a huge risk by | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
cutting 60,000 police officers. you to the right of the claerning? | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
It is much too is impistic to talk like that. To the right of Ken | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
Clarke. I think it is much too simplistic. Let's come on to G4S, | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
it is one of these periodic nightmares that hits the Home | :27:56. | :28:04. | |
Office. Would hole secretary Cooper ever high G4S again? They do look | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
like a complete shower at the moment. It is shocking what they | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
would have dob. You have to have an awful lot of scepticism about their | :28:10. | :28:17. | |
ability to deliver a CI think it is not just about G4S. Serve working | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
to deliver the Olympics, fantastic works have gone on with the venues. | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
It is not just about G4S letting the country down. Why on earth did | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
the Home Office not know what is happening. And wait to the last | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
minute. It is utter incompetence. I'm not sure if you answer mied | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
question. It was you, the Labour Government that made G4S rich. I | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
have a list of contracts you gave them. I see the boss, who is now | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
touring the studios ised paid almost �1 million a year with �5 | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
million of share options. Sounds like a banker. You made them rich. | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
Would you ever employ them again? Public-private partnerships can be | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
effective. You wouldn't expect me to set what the framework would be | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
for every individual contract. asking whether you would use them | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
again. I would certainly not want to be contracting out core public | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
policing to them, which is what the Government has been forcing police | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
forces to. You wouldn't let anybody do that. You are right. You | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
shouldn't be contracting out policing It is a big mistake. | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
want to move over to Lords reform. Briefly. I think the Government, | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
the Home Secretary has serious questions to answer. She has not | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
yet explained whether she is on top of what is happening with the G4S | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
number of staff and the volunteers and also how on earth could they | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
not know with what it looks like now, that they were actually | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
advised in the autumn. If the Home Secretary was here, what was the | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
number one question would you ask: Is she in control of it now. Do we | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
now know that there won't be any additional police or troops needed, | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
and secondly, how could she possibly have not known, even as | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
late as Monday of last week, she was saying she was confident it was | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
going to be all right. Final question on Lords reform in our | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
last mib. Labour says it is in favour of an elected second chamber. | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
Every major constitutional change passed by the last Labour | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
Government required a programme timetable a limit on the debate. | :30:14. | :30:20. | |
Why not - why don't you vote for one on this Lords reform. We voted | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
for the bill. We didn't vote for the programme motion. Only ten days | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
deaf bait which would have allowed the Government to force through | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
bits of the bill that needed to be amended. You only gave eight days | :30:34. | :30:42. | |
to Scottish devolution, seven days to the Welsh Assembly, twodys to | :30:42. | :30:43. | |
day we talked about earlier, did you that in four-and-a-half days. | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
You could argue about the number of days but why not vote for some kind | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
of timetable if you are in favour of it. Bnch before these time | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
tables were brought. In I was in Parliament then and we managed to | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
get legislation through it. Requires the Government to talk to | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
us about each stage and we have said we'll work with them to Mick | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
sure it gets through Parliament if the Government will work with us to | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
do that but it needs to be amended. That's why we had to say this about | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
the timetable motion it, would not have allowed us to be able to amend | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
the bill in the way we need but we need it to get through to have | :31:16. | :31:25. | |
House of Lords reform. Have a good You are watching Sunday Politics. | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
Coming up next 20 minutes, I will be looking at the week ahead with | :31:30. | :31:37. | |
our Sunday panel. Until then, the Sunday Politics across the UK. | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
Hello and welcome to the London part of Sunday Politics. Joining me | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
for the next 20 minutes, shadow Olympics minister Tessa Jowell, the | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
Labour member for West Dulwich and West Norwood, and the Conservative | :31:49. | :31:58. | |
MP for Beckenham and member of the Defence Select Committee. There is | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
only one story in London, not the rain, the Olympics. Londoners were | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
always promised that the additional cost of the Games would just be 38p | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
for the average household per week. We have been paying that for over | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
six years. Opinions are still divided on whether that was value | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
for money. As Hugh Robertson has been telling us, there are areas | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
where exactly what Londoners can expect in return for that sum of | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
money has yet to be decided. I know not everybody likes this analogy, | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
but what we are talking about here per week, you cannot even buy a | :32:32. | :32:38. | |
Walnut whip for 38p. I was tempted to bring one! If you buy one of | :32:38. | :32:46. | |
them once a week for 10 years, do you want that or the spent of the | :32:46. | :32:52. | |
Olympic Games? This is what it has cost. The average London house sold | :32:52. | :32:57. | |
has had to go one extra sugary treat less for the sake of hosting | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
the Olympic Games. The deal was signed off by a Labour Government | :33:01. | :33:08. | |
and Labour Mayor. Would this cost gusting minister prefer it to have | :33:08. | :33:15. | |
been cheaper? -- cost-cutting minister. I would not. The then | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
Government look that the Games and the possibilities that came to this | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
country as a result of staging the Games, and I wish they had done | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
more with them. That was when the plans were for a larger scale, | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
regeneration of Stratford and the other things. That is when that | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
came about. The centrepiece of that investment, the half a billion | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
pound Olympic Stadium, still without a permanent tenants sorted | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
for after the Games. It may be too early to judge whether it | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
represents good value or perhaps whether Londoners would have | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
preferred to spend their cash on something else. There have been | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
some well-publicised problems over the stadium, principally because we | :33:50. | :33:55. | |
have had too many people wanting to get into it and not too few. That | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
is what caused the delay and I think we will get over that and I'm | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
completely sure we will deliver a mixed-use communities stadium with | :34:01. | :34:07. | |
football at its heart after the Games. It sounds like they might be | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
some news coming soon? There may very well be but that depends on | :34:11. | :34:19. | |
the good negotiations. Before the Games? That depends on the | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
negotiations. It is well known that lots of people are interested in | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
being part of the Olympic Stadium. It is a fantastic facility. We have | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
already got the World Athletics Championships coming to London in | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
2017, which we secured last year. We had lots of communities | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
interested in using it around the stadium. I would like to add a | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
football club to that and it would be the icing on the cake. I am | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
confident that will happen but we cannot make an announcement before | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
the Games possibly. But we could have that used? Possibly but | :34:48. | :34:55. | |
probably not. -- but we could have that news? Possibly but probably | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
not. You can never guarantee anything, but we will be pretty | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
sure that it will open again in 2014 on time. On the subject of | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
certainty, could there be any room for manoeuvre on the highly | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
controversial Games lanes designed to let at Leeds and sponsors was | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
around London while we, the people paying for it, sit next to them? -- | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
athletes and sponsors. The best advice to anybody travelling in | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
London, if you are thinking of driving into central London, please | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
do not. If it was complete gridlock on the whole of London grinds to a | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
halt then nobody can move anywhere. I don't think that will happen, by | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
the way, but you would be foolish not to look at the worst case | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
scenario. So there are varying mixtures of excitement and bread. | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
By the end of the summer, opinions may have changed about whether it | :35:45. | :35:51. | |
was all worth it or not. Tessa Jowell, are you alarmed by | :35:51. | :35:54. | |
the recent travel problems, particularly looking at the M4 and | :35:54. | :36:00. | |
the rehearsals at the key London stations that did not go very well. | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
First of all, I do not think it is fair to say they did not go very | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
well. The M4 has now reopened. has, surprisingly! The fact is that | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
these problems will arise and we have to brace ourselves for more | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
difficulties in the days before the opening ceremony. The important | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
thing is the unity of purpose to address those problems and sold | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
them. When you say more problems, what are you thinking of? I cannot | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
be of anything worse than a crack on the M4, the main route from | :36:28. | :36:38. | |
Heathrow air court. -- I cannot think of anything worse. We have to | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
manage the problems rather than going into meltdown and assuming | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
nobody can do anything about them. We have an expert team at LOCOG and | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
Transport for London managing this. It is our job to give confidence to | :36:51. | :36:56. | |
that, not to... OK, are you confident? What about the transport | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
system itself, grinding to a halt? That was the question put to the | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
minister. Well, I do not think it will but if it does we will get | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
through it and that is the end of it. We have got to sort it. It was | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
not designed for the Olympic Games and it was designed for London 100 | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
years ago. We have adapted it and it will be adapted again and things | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
will go wrong and people will complaint and other people will | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
have a magic journey. And that will happen. If it does grind to a halt, | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
perhaps not literally, then should people consider it suspending the | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
restrictions on the roads and people could use those specific | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
claims? That is the kind of sensible, last ditch strategic | :37:37. | :37:42. | |
planning. That will be a decision under gold command for the police, | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
at Transport for London, and the Mayor. Let them take those | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
decisions. These are not things that have not occurred to them. Of | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
course they have thought of them. But he would be in breach of the | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
deal signed with the Olympic Committee that those loans would be | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
kept empty and designated for those people. -- those lanes. But if you | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
have a crisis you have to manage the crisis and create a solution. | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
Of course the Olympic Committee would be party to any of that but | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
they want as much as anybody else for the Games to be a fantastic | :38:15. | :38:25. | |
:38:25. | :38:27. | ||
success. Absolutely. You can take possibility to the very limit of | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
what is likely. That is what the test events have done. The test | :38:32. | :38:41. | |
days, at what Network Rail did, all to try and identify where the | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
weaknesses are and be in a position to address them if they do arrive | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
in real time. One of the problems of the strikes, the bus drivers | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
trying to strike a deal over bonus payments. What do you say to them | :38:52. | :38:59. | |
because that has not been resolved? Perhaps they could think about the | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
military, should they get a bonus? They will not get a bonus and they | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
will be delighted to come in and sort out the problem. Quite frankly, | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
I asked the bus drivers to stop. We have to make this a great event. | :39:12. | :39:17. | |
Sort it out as fast as possible. absolutely agree with that. I am on | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
the record as saying there should be no strikes during the Olympics. | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
So should they pay the bonus? the most important thing is to get | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
round the table and negotiate. My understanding is that there is | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
money on the table to fund the bonus. The whole thing has got to | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
be done fairly between the different elements of Transport | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
personnel. But there should be no strikes. Moving on from Transport | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
to legacy, which is very important. One London won the bid it was a | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
different economic climate. Knowing what we know now, could be Games | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
have been done for less money, should have been done for less? | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
It would not have been worth spending money on building venues | :39:58. | :40:08. | |
:40:08. | :40:09. | ||
without regenerating the park in which the venues sit. You could not | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
have done anything if you had not invested in washing the soil, | :40:13. | :40:19. | |
levelling it, dealing with waterlogging. Now there will be | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
2800 homes after the Games and another 7500 to come. A new | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
community for London. Do hundred and 50 sweet treats, a price worth | :40:29. | :40:38. | |
paying? -- at 250. Some people will say no. I say yes. Quite frankly we | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
are going to have a fantastic event. It will showcase London and it will | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
be a world-class event. We will show that this country may well be | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
in the doldrums at the moment but it can still put on a class act. | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
you regret that we have got to the Olympics happening in a matter of | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
weeks and no idea what the stadium will be used for in the future? | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
Should that have been sorted out so we know what that legacy would be? | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
Well, they are trying to sort it out. Seven years? These things are | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
not as easy as that. Seven years since like a long time but equally | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
it will be sorted out and I hope very much they will get someone to | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
occupy it and use it to maximum capacity. Can we look at the other | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
side of that assertion? Six out of eight venues have got their long- | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
term tenants which has never happened in any other Olympics city. | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
Tell me about an Olympic city that before the Games is so advanced | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
that they have settled the legacy of the stadium as we are? But your | :41:34. | :41:41. | |
idea was not taken up in the end. Which? He wanted to party bring it | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
down and then rebuild it. I think it will be. It will not be and | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
85,000 seater stadia because who needs that? What about imminent | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
news? We could expect an announcement before the Games. | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
not party to that, but the sooner the better and in the autumn I | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
think we will know who will be there in the longer term. All right. | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
It emerged that G4S the private company hired to provide security | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
for the Games failed to train at the workers as promised and the | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
army have been called in to fill the gap. This is what Theresa May | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
said in the House of Commons to explain. We were receiving | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
assurances from G4S until very recently and the gap in the numbers | :42:26. | :42:32. | |
was only crystallised finally yesterday. Because we have been | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
monitoring this, we had had discussions with the minister of | :42:35. | :42:42. | |
defence about whether there would be availability of troops. -- the | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
Ministry of Defence. And that is why yesterday we were able to take | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
that decision, having prudently been making those discussions and | :42:51. | :42:57. | |
contingency arrangements. Joining us from Westminster, Margaret | :42:57. | :43:03. | |
Gilmore from the Royal United Services Institute for Defence and | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
Security Studies. Now we know that 3500 soldiers on their way to shore | :43:07. | :43:13. | |
up the shortfall and security staff, is that a shock for you? What a | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
fiasco. The military were asking what do you need and what can we | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
give you? We know that all the specialists stuff around the | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
sailing and in the Thames and the big military hardware that we have | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
seen, we know about that, but we also know that our troops a bridge | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
at logistics but they were kept away. Then a small number have come | :43:33. | :43:39. | |
in. -- our troops are brilliant at logistics. Then finally they have | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
been brought in. His security compromised? Of course not, if | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
anything they will do a better job. The ball might feel more | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
comfortable. I will just put that question to Bob Stewart. 3500 | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
troops have been drafted in two weeks before the Games start. That | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
is a big ask. It is a big ask and clearly it was a shambles for G4S | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
and they have made a big mistake and I hope they will pay for that. | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
Shouldn't the Government have known? Theresa May said the | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
Government have reassurances but it does not sound convincing. Why did | :44:12. | :44:19. | |
they not know about the short for? The answer is that I do not know. I | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
suspect it was hidden by G4S. When the Government found out, I am | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
quite sure that they started ringing alarm bells immediately. | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
The military have been put on standby and they are being used. | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
That is what they have to do and what the military are there for. As | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
I said earlier, it would be jolly nice if they could get a bonus, but | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
they will not. What about other contingency plans coming into | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
force? The key thing about the military is that these people are | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
going to come in and they will do the simple task that they will do | :44:49. | :44:55. | |
very well of speeding long queues in securely. Checking bags and | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
getting people through and doing the perimeter work. I think the | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
contingencies in place for other eventualities are in a different | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
sphere. I think they all stand up. I have never seen anything like the | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
type of security that we have got that these Games. We rings of steel | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
around it. And there has been a spate of arrests not just in London. | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
Is that a taste of things to come? Normally if intelligence agencies | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
are suspicious about people then they put them under surveillance | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
for a long time to get enough evidence to prove there is a plot | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
and put them through the courts. I think the politicians have | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
absolutely zero tolerance of taking any risk on security, so if | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
somebody falls under suspicion, they are being arrested and if | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
there is not enough evidence to put them through the courts, at least | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
if there was something going on then it would have been disrupted | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
and the message has been said that they have been clocked and they | :45:50. | :46:00. | |
:46:00. | :46:01. | ||
Tessa Jowell, what do you say about that? Well militarisation, yes, | :46:01. | :46:05. | |
heavy-handed security, yes, heavy- handed policing, yes. So, that's | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
why I think the aim throughout, is certainly in all the discussions I | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
have been party to, is to ensure security, surveillance, the action | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
to protect the Games is proportionate, so that people are | :46:17. | :46:23. | |
able to enjoy Games, which is safe, and secure, but as I say, doesn't | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
feel as if we've suddenly been invaded. One of the things I think | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
we do owe, however, is a great debt of gratitude to these soldiers who | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
are coming back, many of them from active deployment to take on this | :46:36. | :46:42. | |
responsibility. And as Richard... With a promise of tickets? I hope | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
so, at least, at least some tickets. Or give their families tickets. | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
hope people will thank them. Margaret gill Moroccans another | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
issue that could be a problem with protests, leading up to the games. | :46:57. | :47:04. | |
Dr Margaret Gilmore, another issue could be protests. Is that a | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
difficult issue? Well unless things go pear-shaped, the UK was critical | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
during Beijing of the way things were handled so we can't do the | :47:13. | :47:18. | |
same and come down in a heavy- handed way, however we cannot have | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
the situation where we had last summer where we had major rioting | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
because where you are moving large crowds of people around, if you | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
start getting in the way of that and start getting panic amongst the | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
crowds, then off doubly worse security situation. So there will | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
be protests, but any hibit of violence, I think they will come | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
down heavy handedly and they are watching people coming in from | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
abroad, known protesters, and we have we have seen terrorist arrests | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
we are also seeing people who are known to protest violently, who are | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
being arrested and given little messages that way. Bob Stewart are | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
you reassured, confident, from a security point of view, we will all | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
be fine. It'll all be fine but I have one word of caution, we will | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
find things that will happen that we haven't expected. That's the way | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
of the world and that is why, as Tessa has said, we have got a | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
pretty good organisation to be flexible and, for example, if | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
necessary, with approval, use Olympic lanes, we will get the best | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
way forward. Thank you very much. Nue, look at the rest of the news | :48:21. | :48:31. | |
in 60 seconds. -- now a look at the rest of the news in 60 seconds. | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
With fears the Olympic flame might be doused with a are iny forecast | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
for week one, organise remembers drawing up continge Icy plans, | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
including orderering thousands of plastic ponchos. Worryingly for the | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
Games 27 planners. M4 was closed for repair. The motorway will | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
become part of the Olympic route network on Monday with one lane on | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
each carriageway reserved for competitors, officials and sponsors. | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
In east London residents lost their appeal to have the anti-terrorist | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
ground to air missiles deployed on the roof of their tower block | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
removed. He helped win the Olympics and | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
three general elections for the Labour Party but now Tony Blair is | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
back, advising opposition leader Ed Miliband, on the Games, Sporting | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
and Economic legacy. Braving the llts, a cheeky streaker in Henley | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
jumped on the Olympic bandwagon, armed only with a replica | :49:30. | :49:35. | |
artificial torch. So, is it the weather we are going | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
to have to worry about more than anything else? Listen, with an | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
event on this size and scale you worry about everything. If you | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
worry about everything, you are prepared for whatever arises. | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
can't do anything about the weather. Wouldn't a roof have been a good | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
idea? No.. Why not? Would you like knee spend half an hour. You have | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
about a minute. Like Wimbledon they have done well with their roof. | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
there are very clear rules about how Olympic and world records are | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
set in track and field. And there is a roof, two-thirds of the | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
stadium is covered, and it's been designed precisely to ensure that | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
any record set is valid. So as long as you are not in this thaird where | :50:17. | :50:23. | |
it is uncovered. Then you want your plastic poncho. Do you think they | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
should have done a bit more. We have had a freak Sumner terms of | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
the rain but perhaps more should have been done... To stop the rain. | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
No, but to mitigate it? No, there is damn all you can do. There is | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
only one person responsible and not any of us can easily talk to him. | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
What about refunds? I have tickets, jot door event. What happens if it | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
is rained off. Will you get your money back? I think you ought to | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
talk to the organisers about that. I'm pretty good on most matters | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
Olympic but ticket refunds in the event of rain I'm afraid... | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
mean I can't write to you. I'm sure and many people will and I will | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
take up their requests for help but that's something for LOCOG. You are | :51:06. | :51:12. | |
moving in, aren't you? I am, I'm going to be part of the Deputy | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
Mayoral Team overseeing what we hope will be the smooth and happy | :51:15. | :51:22. | |
running of the village. My fellow Deputy Mayors, Duncan Goodhew, Tony | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
Hall and the Mayor of the Village. Charles Allen. That's it. We will | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
be back in the autumn. I will be back tomorrow with Daily Politics, | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
now back to Andrew. Tomorrow we will have the Prime | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
Minister and his deputy joined at the hip over plans to rebuild the | :51:42. | :51:47. | |
country's railways but is Lords reform dead in the water, is the | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
coalition now just the walking wounded and is Chancellor Osborne's | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
job safe in any autumn reshuffle. Questions that are meat and drink | :51:55. | :52:02. | |
to our panel in the Week Ahead. So, row wenia is the Prime Minister | :52:02. | :52:10. | |
kidding us, Lords reform is over? - row wenia. Personally I think it | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
is. What shocked me is the scale and depth of the rebellion. Over | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
100 MPs defying the whip if you count abstentions, not only the new | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
intake but also the old guard lined up, organised by one of the most | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
erudite, intelligent and loyal MPs in the form of Jesse Norman. I | :52:26. | :52:31. | |
think what is interesting about this is their objection is very, | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
very principaled. It is not subject to the pragmatic compromise that | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
David Cameron might like. I don't think they will move on that. What | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
I think is also interesting is in the past David Cameron's pragmatism | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
has served him well, helped him get a lot through but when he comes up | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
against principled objections of backbenchers, I think it makes him | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
look like he is not a true Conservative. Of course the issue, | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
Isabel isn't for or against Lords reform, it is whether you can get | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
this timetable motion in to make sure it doesn't dominate the floor | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
of the house forever and a day. Yvette Cooper was saying on the | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
programme. If the Government came forward with a prr timetabled | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
motion we would look at it. We have the example of Labour timetabled | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
motions. You feel if the Government was serious about this, it could | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
get round the Tory rebels. I think it is possible they could. The one | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
thing that would buy off a lot of Tory rebels, if there was an | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
amendment for a referendum but there is one big misconception I | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
would like to knock on the heads. The Lib Dems keep trotting it out, | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
and that is that the coalition agreement contains a commitment to | :53:35. | :53:40. | |
House of Lords reform. Look at the wording it, does not contain a | :53:40. | :53:45. | |
commitment to do anything, other than set up a series of committees | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
and "bring forward proposals", that is not saying this is a priority | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
for us and we are going to actually make it happen. It is all politics, | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
isn't it, in the end? The Prime Minister's heart, reading the | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
Sunday Times' article is not really in this Lords reform. Would he like | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
it but in the end it is no big deal. Labour wants Lords reform but if it | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
makes more sense playing politics over a programme timetable on the | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
sort of legislation which they always had and timetabled | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
themselves, then it ain't going to happen. It seems that way. I'm more | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
optimistic than most of the Sunday press seem to be that it might | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
still happen. I think there are sufficient numbers of rebels who's | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
objections to the bill are actually quite practical rather than | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
philosophical. That were you to, for example, cut the tenure of | :54:31. | :54:34. | |
elected Lord from 15 years to seven or eight or change the voting | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
system so it wasn't a part list system, you might win enough people | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
over that by the autumn you could win a vote to contract the | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
discussion. And if there was enough time in the House you could win the | :54:46. | :54:50. | |
votes. The House, the Commons doesn't like it. True. As you | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
suggested, it is the second question of timing remember than | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
the principle question is that the obstacle -- rather than the | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
principal question. Where do we see this in regards to | :55:01. | :55:07. | |
Lords op significance. Other than deficit reduction, I'm not sure | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
what the coalition agree on any more. Absolutely. The remarkable | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
fact in the story of this coalition has been the discipline of the | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
Liberal Democrats who have been prepared to vote for things that | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
their heart really, really isn't, in and now that the coalition | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
agreement has almost all been passed through, I really wonder | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
whether they are going to see the rise of the Liberal Democrat | :55:28. | :55:31. | |
backbencher and particularly in September one thing I think we will | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
be talking about a lot is Europe and that issue already... That will | :55:35. | :55:43. | |
do well, go well with them. They can't a aggro on a coalition 2.0. | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
They can't agree on coalition Mark 2. This is the central problem. | :55:47. | :55:50. | |
People have suggested the coalition will be relaunched through a | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
reshuffle. I think that will help if you promote people like Jeremy | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
Browne or David Laws to the Cabinet who are believers in the coalition, | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
that can help at the margins but they will never regain their | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
initial stability as a Government until they discover a new set of | :56:05. | :56:13. | |
policies that they genuinely agree on and that does require a a grand | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
bargain. In the absence of it and in a legislate kpwrif schedule | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
that's busy and active and interesting, all that political | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
space is filled by mischief. They haven't got an agreed platform, | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
other than continuing with deficit reduction, which is not exactly a | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
huge success so far, they have not got an agreed programme to see them | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
through to 2015. I think they really do need to do that. What | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
they will say is actually we are in implementation phase. We are | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
incredibly businessing behind the scenes pushing through the radical | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
reforms on education and welfare particularly. The trouble is, to | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
perception for outsiders is that nothing much is happening. I do | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
think they need to sit down and come up with - it doesn't need to | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
be a massive long document. something that keeps the show on | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
the road. Two or three things they can agree on rain committed to | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
doing. I'm convinced that the main obstacle that the Liberal Democrats | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
don't have that many positive causes to advance. If you were to | :57:12. | :57:20. | |
strike an grand bargain, the Tories would say give us a new runway. I | :57:20. | :57:25. | |
know it is pain for you guys... is painful for a lot of Tories. | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
What would they give the Liberal Democrats in return? They have | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
constitutional demands but beyond that not very much. Reshuffle not | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
until the autumn, if it comes then, we are agreed at that? I'm certain | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
it'll be at the beginning of the September. Here is the question | :57:39. | :57:45. | |
deliciously raised this morning, is George Osborne job's safe is in he | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
shuffle or is Mr Hague breathing down his neck? Should Mr Osborne's | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
job be safe? They are two very different questions. I think George | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
is far too powerful to be moved, so he is only going to move to the | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
Foreign Office if he decides he has a fancy for a bit of foreign travel. | :58:01. | :58:09. | |
I don't blee. Jania I'm sure... Such a... I cannot see George | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
Osborne taking that because it would look like a demotion. Should | :58:12. | :58:17. | |
sne Personally I think yes, but what do you think? If George | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
osintelorn not Chancellor after the reshuffle I will come to the Sunday | :58:21. | :58:26. | |
politics in a dress -- if George Osborne is not Chancellor. | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
I hope is, please. Better pray. His political stock is the lowest it | :58:32. | :58:36. | |
has been and I can understand discussion about his future but the | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
one thing that ueites the coalition is the deficit reduction programme. | :58:39. | :58:46. | |
Which so far is not going great. Would it not be better to have a | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
gruff Yorkshire accent comprehensive schoolboy as | :58:48. | :58:52. | |
Chancellor in the middle of the worst recession in living memory. | :58:52. | :58:55. | |
Absolutely. A lot of the problems, the economy is getting worse, | :58:55. | :59:00. | |
because of Europe but also because we had a Budget which was by all | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
accounts an omni-shambles. The priority might be deficit reduction | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
but let's face it, it is going up. Also this is the Chancellor who | :59:09. | :59:18. | |
made it easier to firework terse bottom for incompetence. That's it | :59:18. | :59:24. | |
for today. For the Sunday Politics, and that's it for the rest of what | :59:24. | :59:30. | |
only the British could call summer but Jo Coburn is back for Daily | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
Politics tomorrow and on Tuesday and I will be back for This Week. | :59:35. | :59:40. |