18/11/2012 Sunday Politics London


18/11/2012

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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. As the standoff

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between Israel and Hamas continues, the Foreign Secretary calls for

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restraint on both sides. Is anyone listening?

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After apathy swept across England and Wales last week, we'll ask Tory

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Chairman Grant Shapps where the Police Commissioners debacle leaves

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David Cameron's dreams of firing up society. That's the Sunday

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Interview. And is Ed Miliband getting a bit

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carried away after his party's victory in the Corby by-election?

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We'll ask Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper whether Labour's

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triumph is anything more than a routine mid-term setback for the

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Government. And is it time for prisoners to get

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the vote? Well, it might increase turnout! Under pressure from the

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European Court the Government will put some options before Parliament.

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Before they vote, two MPs go head to head. In London this week, with

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one Conservative absent without leave in the jungle, how do they

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connect with constituents and how long do they spend with them?

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And with me, as always, the best and the brightest political panel

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in the business Isabelle Oakeshott, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt offering

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more wit, insight and tweets than there are votes in a South Wales

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ballot box. No ground invasion by Israel of

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Gaza, so far, but Israeli planes and warships have continued to

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pound Gaza City, hitting two media centres in the process while Hamas

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is still firing rockets at Israel. There are also talks in Cairo on a

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ceasefire. Britain's Foreign Secretary has been on Sky News.

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Here's what William Hague had to say. Efforts are going on to

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negotiate a ceasefire, to come to an agreed ceasefire, but clearly

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those have not been successful so far. We support those efforts. We

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call on Hamas again to stop the rocket attacks on Israel. It is

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Hamas that bears the principal responsibility for starting this,

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and we would like to see an agreed ceasefire, an essential component

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of which is an end to those rocket attacks. In the absence of a

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ceasefire, we are calling on everyone involved to the escalate,

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to avoid civilian casualties and abide by humanitarian law.

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nothing new in that. I wonder if people appreciate the powerful

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position Israel is in. Syria, the biggest enemy in civil war, Jordan,

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on Reston the streets in Egypt, Cairo, the Egyptian army in no

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position to do anything that would cause the Israelis damage. And now

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increased attacks on Tel-Aviv as well. If you think back to 2006 and

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Israel's conflict with Hezbollah in Lebanon, William Hague came under a

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lot of criticism for taking what they thought was a hostile line

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against Israel. He found it a very wounding experience. I think he was

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shaped by it, and in this conflict he has been more supportive of

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Israel, morning to pin the blame on Hamas than he was six years ago.

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For it was Tony Blair's failure to condemn Israel in 2006 that led to

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the final Cabinet heave-ho. The important point about this conflict

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is that it is the first major conflict since the Arab Spring and

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what is the big change that has happened there? You know Havant

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Islamist government in Egypt. The President of Egypt comes from the

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Muslim Brotherhood that has historical links with Hamas, which

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has changed the tectonic plates. The old days when Israel could take

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action and President Mubarak would turn a blind eye, they have gone.

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one thing we have not mentioned is oil prices and this is the spectre

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that haunts the government here, politically. Growing instability in

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the Middle East, what will that do to oil prices? If they surge, will

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that scuppered the economic recovery? We will see. We have have

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the by-election in Corby, the election for the police

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commissioners, where does that leave British politics this

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weekend? The biggest important thing is where it leaves the

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Liberal Democrats. The results this week will have fuelled the anxiety,

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further raising questions over Nick Clegg's position. You would assume

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that polling at 8% in the opinion polls, doing as badly as they did

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last week, there would be more sedition with indolent Dem ranks

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than their is and even Nick Clegg this morning. -- Vince Cable this

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morning was not unsupportive. are in a hung parliament for some

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time. Labour's four Corby, of course they are going to, and the

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Tories did not do that well so it is next for all of them. -- mixed.

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In a moment, we'll ask Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper just how

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significant Corby and the other elections are. But first here's her

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leader getting very excited. There's some flash photography.

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This constituency is at the heart of our country and it has sent a

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very clear message today. It has sent a message that it is putting

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its trust in a One nation Labour Party and Middle England is turning

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away from David Cameron and the Conservatives because Middle

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England feels let down by David Cameron and the Conservatives.

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joining me now is Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper. Welcome

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back to the programme. Corby was a decent result for you, nobody can

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deny that, but there is no evidence result in mid-term by-elections

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like this give you any real clue to the party's performance in a

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general election. The we think it was good progress and we think it

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is good week won this and saw an increase in our vote compared to

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the general election as well as a drop in the Conservative and

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Liberal Democrats vote, but of course you are right, we have a lot

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more to do before the general election and we will keep working

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at that. What do you say to the point from Nick Watt that we could

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be in the hung parliament territory for the foreseeable future? I don't

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want to see that because I think some of the damage this coalition

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be doing to the Country is massive, whether written is the double-dip

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recession, or to the public health service. It was a bad defeat in

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2010, but this showed that Ed Miliband's approach is building

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sport and support from a constituency in the heart of

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England. Let's look at that because your leader did say middle-England

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was turning away from the Conservatives, but the evidence

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they are putting their trust in Labour is hard to find. The

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Conservatives won 15 of the Police Commissioner contests, you won just

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13. The only police commissioner contest you've won was one seat in

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the south in Bedfordshire. Those results are interesting. If you

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look at the overall vote, Labour won 33% of the vote, Conservatives

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about 27%, and independents about 22%, but the real story about what

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happened is that hardly anybody voted. It was shockingly low

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turnout and that shows anger about having the elections and the first

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place. I am going to speak to the Tory chairman about the turnout,

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but what I am trying to ask for is that of those who did vote, there

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is no sign of a mad rush to you. In Kent and Essex, these are the kind

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of counties you need to win seats in to get the overall majority, you

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were beaten by the Conservatives and independents. We did get a

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larger share of the vote, more than in 2010.

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A you have a very long way to go. It would be foolish to Reading to a

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low turnout vote. When only 15% of the country voted, and what I found

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on the doorstep on Thursday, what a lot of people said, and I think

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this was from all parties, they were very angry about having these

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elections in the first place. They didn't know anything about it, it

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was in November, and the Government spent �100 million on these

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elections. It is a shocking waste of money. I have heard do and

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enjoyed listening to you. Your leader has made a more of them, he

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said it was a sign of people turning away from the Conservatives,

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putting their trust in Labour. In Wales, you only won one of the

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Police Commissioner seats. These are not great results for you.

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think the Police and Crime Commissioner results were not great

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for democracy. I think Labour did get the largest share of the vote

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but I'm not going to say I am proud of this when 15% of the public

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voted. We did do our best, campaigning and working across the

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country. In Humberside, 2010 Election Humberside had a 25,000

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Conservative majority so in fact Humberside was always going to be

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very difficult. You do badly in the city of Hull as well. Of course it

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is a Conservative area, Humberside, so good luck to John that he was

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prepared to campaign for what was a very difficult election for a post

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that I think the public didn't want and thought was a real waste of

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money when you could have spent the money on 3000 police officers

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instead. You can't use money which is a single sum. It is 100 million,

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a one-off on these elections. Is John Prescott's career over? He is

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unstoppable, you always expect to see him doing more. People didn't

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turn out not just in these elections, but also in Manchester

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the turnout was only 18%. Yes, and Manchester was obviously expected -

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people treated it as a safe seat. The Labour vote held up quite well,

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but turnout was too low. The you got 10,000 fewer votes this time

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than in 2010. I think you have differences between areas that were

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considered to be safe seats like Manchester and Cardiff, and Corby

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which had a higher turnout. The interesting thing about the police

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elections was that every part of the country, whether it was

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marginal, where the writ was rural or urban, turnout was rock bottom.

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How can you claim the Labour vote held up quite well when it was

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10,000 smaller than two years ago? It was a by-election compared to a

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general election. I am not going to argue that turnout was too low, it

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has been a trend across the decades. I think political parties need to

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do more and we need to make it easier for people to vote. Rather

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than just doing it on a Thursday and certainly not in November.

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think it is clear they won't be doing that again. Prisoner voting

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is back on the agenda. You are going to get a choice of the status

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quo, no votes at all, votes if you are only banged away for six months,

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which though would you take? I have always taken the view that if

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someone has committed a crime that is serious enough to take away

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their liberty, for that period they should also be deprived of the

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right to vote. That has been the view of the House of Commons and I

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would expect that to continue. he would vote for the status quo?

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That has been a long-standing Labour policy and we will cut the

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proposals. And if you are saying no votes for any business, where does

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that leave us with the European Court? You have to keep going back

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to the European Court on this because their job is to look at

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what disproportionate and responsible. The British Parliament

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is being proportion it. We have not had a legal debate on this, we have

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not passed laws on this even though we have passed motions, and the

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European Court should look at it again. It shows Parliament is being

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responsible about this. That is the way the British courts have

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operated, to look at whether the parliament is being responsible and

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proportion it. It will be an interesting week. Thank you. So the

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Tories lost in Corby, people wearing different to us voting for

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police commissioners - has David Cameron's idea of engaging people

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and decisions that affect their lives at hit the buffers? An

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invitation to join the government to Britain, that was the title of

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the Conservative manifesto at the last general election. The Big

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Society directly-elected mayors, US style elected police commissioners,

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and powers devolved to the local level were promised to the voters.

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It didn't give David Cameron a majority in 2010 and now looks like

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an invite the voters are rejecting. The lowest ever turnout in the

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election for police commissioners comes after voters had largely

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rejected plans for a directly- elected mayor. In Corby the

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decision of Louise Mensch to abandon her parliamentary seat mid-

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term turned into a Labour win. More worrying for the Tories is that

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UKIP came from nowhere to win a respectable third place.

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Performance which can only put more Euro-sceptic pressure on David

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Cameron from his backbenchers. To win an overall majority at the next

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general election, the Conservatives have to win millions more voters

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than they did in 2010. Will their new elections to Primo Linton

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Crosby, the man dubbed the Wizard of us, help them come up with a

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more attractive proposition next And Conservative Party Chairman

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Grant Shapps joins me now for the Sunday Interview. Good morning. Can

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we confirm Linton Crosby is the party's new campaign strategist?

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will come and be campaign manager but not until the New Year and on a

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part-time basis. Have you investigated the claims that

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mysteriously appeared in the Mail on Sunday this morning about him

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using inappropriate language towards Muslims? He has no

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recollection of this at all. I also know from Boris Johnson, this is a

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serious campaigner. I think he brings a focus that is required to

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managing campaigns. We have a big job to do. We need to explain what

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is going on. This country is in a global race. We need to get out

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there and secured a brilliant future for Britain. We need someone

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managing the campaign who can focus on doing that. No recollection is a

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strange denial. You would remember the words or you would not. Boris

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Johnson would Eiger have remembered or not. Both have said no

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recollection. -- either have remembered. Lots of people are

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involved in campaigns. It is an unnamed source who has said it to

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the paper. I do know that the two people I do know have both said

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this does not sound right. Actually, what you want to do any case, is

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not focused on that. I imagine your viewers will be thinking, it is

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very interesting but what matters is the cost of living and the price

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of a pint of milk. We will have a campaign that focuses properly on

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the things that matter. Will Mr Crosby still be advising corporate

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clients well he runs the Tory campaign? His business is more than

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just him. He has a lot of corporate clients. Will he still be doing

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that? Whatever his private arrangements are is not something I

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am aware of. A how can he advise corporate clients and run the

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Conservative campaign? Let's be clear, I run the Conservative

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campaign. I am the chairman of the party. I attend Cabinet and the

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buck stops with me. I want the best team in place to manage the

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campaign. One of those people is acting as a consultant on a part-

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time basis initially and runs a company. His business is more than

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just him. It is a company. We're hiring the company and an expert

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with a proven track record -- track record. He has helped Boris Johnson

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be elected twice. I want that focus with my campaign. Back to this week,

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the philosophy of David Cameron involved a new sort of engagement

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in society. Let me show you what was said here. It says, will change

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comes when the people are inspired and mobilised, went millions of us

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are fired up to play a part in the nation's future. When you look at

:19:57.:20:01.

what happened with directly elected mayors and the new police

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commissioner elections, that has not happened. We would love to have

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a bigger turnout. 5.5 million people did vote in those elections.

:20:11.:20:18.

I agree with you. We want to see the bigger turnout. I agree.

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vision has been a miserable failure. His 41 Police Commissioner's are

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people who would be elected - are now elected - with a far bigger

:20:30.:20:34.

mandate than the zero mandate that the chairman of the police

:20:34.:20:39.

authority used to have. They used to run the austerities. You have a

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mandate of 4%. -- the authorities. They will have a mandate of 4% on

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average. Fired up to play a part in the nation's future... If that is

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fired up, I would not want to see something that is extinguished.

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the Olympics we had volunteers coming out to be games makers.

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is nothing to do with you. That quote is about the nation being

:21:08.:21:14.

fired up. 5.5 million people went out to vote. Let's not dismiss that.

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If you take the first elected police commissioner, he had 37,000

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votes and he replaced someone with no votes. I think it is a good idea.

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I think next time around we were see a big increase will start you

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are not be silly enough to hold them on a night in November next

:21:33.:21:39.

time. The manifesto also promised a Big Society day. We are waiting

:21:39.:21:46.

with our diaries. Can you give us that date? I cannot. But I can tell

:21:46.:21:51.

you, all these volunteers from the Olympics, we do not want to lose

:21:51.:21:56.

that spirit - that energy and enthusiasm. What things will happen

:21:56.:22:04.

this coming summer involving them. What is really big is the National

:22:04.:22:08.

Assistance service. That has been quietly expanding so that tens of

:22:08.:22:13.

thousands of young people are taking part in it. That is a huge

:22:13.:22:18.

project. This summer we will see the biggest ever programme.

:22:18.:22:25.

cannot give me the date. Noah macro, I cannot yet. 10 Downing Street

:22:26.:22:34.

blamed the media for the electoral voting for the police commissioner

:22:34.:22:42.

at elections. I would not say that. Elections for a new post will be

:22:42.:22:49.

very different in 3.5 years' time. For a second, put yourself in a

:22:49.:22:54.

position of somebody, maybe a pensioner, who goes down to the

:22:54.:23:01.

local parade of shops - feels threatened because of the level of

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antisocial behaviour which is unacceptable - these police

:23:04.:23:08.

commissioners can do something about it. I reckon in four years'

:23:08.:23:13.

time we will see a much bigger turnout. Let's see what the

:23:13.:23:23.
:23:23.:23:29.

Electoral Reform Society had to Is she right? You always need to do

:23:29.:23:33.

a lot to get people to come out and vote. I was knocking on doors

:23:33.:23:37.

yesterday talking about the campaign, as well as during the

:23:37.:23:41.

campaign. The fact there was not enough information through the door

:23:41.:23:46.

is correct. Candidates need to take some responsibility. The

:23:46.:23:50.

conservative side of the campaign delivered over 12 million

:23:50.:23:54.

newsletters and leaflets. We got through a lot of the front doors in

:23:54.:24:00.

this country. How much campaigning did Mr Cameron do? He supported

:24:00.:24:05.

quite a number of the candidate's. Did he make a single speech saying,

:24:06.:24:10.

vote for police commissioners? the one hand, people are saying, we

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do not want to over politicised police commissioners. They had

:24:15.:24:20.

quite a few independent ones elected. I visited about six of the

:24:20.:24:24.

most marginal seats in the country and we actually won in several of

:24:24.:24:29.

those locations. Let me show you this. It is a new word that has

:24:29.:24:35.

entered the English Dictionary - omnishambles. A situation that has

:24:35.:24:39.

been comprehensively mismanaged, characterised by a series of

:24:39.:24:43.

blunders and miscalculations. I suspect it has gone into the ditch

:24:43.:24:49.

a party because of the behaviour of your government. -- the dictionary.

:24:49.:24:55.

We have managed to deliver the Olympics. It was done brilliantly -

:24:55.:25:01.

not just by the Government - but by the London Organising Committee.

:25:01.:25:04.

During the last two-and-a-half years, we have reduced the deficit

:25:04.:25:10.

by a quarter. We are trying to get the country's finances back on

:25:10.:25:14.

track. We have to compete with China. Every three months they are

:25:14.:25:21.

building an economy the size of breathe -- Greece. Are you not

:25:21.:25:27.

taking credit for the omnishambles? It is a Westminster story. What

:25:27.:25:32.

people really care about is, how can I pay my council tax? We have

:25:32.:25:37.

frozen egg for the third year in a row to make it easier to do. --

:25:37.:25:44.

frozen it. It is the cost of living issues which matter to people.

:25:44.:25:48.

Whether there are words in the English language or not will be

:25:48.:25:52.

small compared with whether we have the answers for Britain in the

:25:52.:26:00.

future. Let's turn to Corby. Tory Central Office, you must regret

:26:00.:26:10.
:26:10.:26:10.

parachuting Louise Mensch into the constituency, -- constituency.

:26:10.:26:16.

think it is wrong to leave mid-term. Ed Miliband and Labour fell to live

:26:16.:26:21.

up to the target, which would have been by a reasonable comparison

:26:21.:26:26.

what happened in crude - that was the mid- point by-election last

:26:26.:26:34.

time around. -- cru place macro. They managed to get to an 8000

:26:34.:26:37.

majority in a seat with very difficult circumstances with an MP

:26:37.:26:46.

that has disappeared. She was a so called A Lister. She is a celebrity.

:26:46.:26:51.

She barely knows Corby. A wonder if she could have found it on the map

:26:51.:26:56.

for you made a Tory candidate. Why were they so keen to get her into

:26:56.:27:02.

Parliament? To be fair to her, love knows no bounds and she went off to

:27:02.:27:08.

the States to be with her husband. I do not think it is a good idea

:27:08.:27:12.

for people to leave their seats part of the way through. I want

:27:12.:27:17.

everyone to be a great candidate for the next elections. I want

:27:17.:27:21.

great candidates in every location. You may want candidates who have

:27:21.:27:27.

done work in the political trenches, who are not Blaikie celebrity

:27:27.:27:33.

stardust, is that right? I want candidates with a political working

:27:33.:27:38.

background but also have experience of the real world. We can bring

:27:38.:27:43.

people into Parliament who have something with them so they can

:27:43.:27:49.

represent the people better. What worries you more - the 13% swing of

:27:49.:27:53.

Labour or UKIP coming from nowhere to a respectable third? Labour

:27:53.:28:00.

should have got about 18% if they were to match where they were on

:28:01.:28:07.

the last mid-term. UKIP took votes from Conservatives, that is true.

:28:07.:28:11.

UKIP also took the votes from Labour. The reason for the result

:28:11.:28:17.

is that in Corby - in the town itself - there are taking a lot of

:28:17.:28:22.

Labour call votes. -- they were taking. All that stuff should worry

:28:23.:28:27.

everyone. It should worry the country. Getting the relationship

:28:27.:28:31.

right with Europe is critically important. Your election strategy

:28:31.:28:36.

involves targeting 40 seats you need to win at the next election.

:28:36.:28:42.

Is it true half of them are Lib Dem seats? Yes. Your election strategy

:28:42.:28:47.

involves wiping out the big chunk of your coalition partners? I have

:28:47.:28:52.

never minced my words about this. I want Conservatives to win in every

:28:52.:28:56.

seat in the country and I do not mind who the opposition is. If we

:28:56.:29:00.

are going to form the next government with an outright

:29:00.:29:04.

majority and do some of the things the country really needs - reshape

:29:04.:29:12.

the economy and be the party of people who wants to work hard, we

:29:12.:29:17.

need to win in every seat. I do not see it as a personal vendetta

:29:17.:29:23.

against the Lib Dems, I just want to win. Jeremy Browne is MP for

:29:23.:29:28.

Taunton Deane. He has a majority of under 4000. He is widely regarded

:29:28.:29:34.

as a pillar of the coalition. He will be aid targeted seat. What are

:29:34.:29:40.

you going to tell people not to vote for him for? People are voting

:29:40.:29:46.

for a government. They want to cede people doing things they want, like

:29:46.:29:50.

renegotiate the relationship with Europe and fundamentally get this

:29:50.:29:55.

country in a position where, in the global race, we swim rather than

:29:55.:30:01.

sink, then we need a Conservative government. What incentive does he

:30:01.:30:09.

have to work with you? He is in the coalition and it runs till 2015. We

:30:09.:30:13.

all know in coalition we are co- operating on the core issues like

:30:13.:30:18.

cutting the deficit, which we have cut by a quarter, and stopping the

:30:18.:30:23.

country from going bust. We do not agree on a whole bunch of other

:30:23.:30:28.

things but at the next election we are going to fight them. David

:30:28.:30:33.

Cameron said that the British should go to Brussels now with our

:30:33.:30:38.

shopping list, to tell them what powers we want to repatriate, have

:30:38.:30:43.

a referendum we can vote on, and that was strengthen our bargaining

:30:43.:30:49.

position. What you say? We are in a coalition and that runs to 2015. I

:30:49.:30:55.

want to see powers repatriated from Europe. Going back to the previous

:30:55.:30:59.

conversation, one pitch will be two people in all kinds of seeds around

:30:59.:31:02.

the country as if we want to have this reformed relationship in

:31:02.:31:07.

Europe, not run by Europe, and we need a majority government. You are

:31:07.:31:13.

saying you would like to do what David Davis has suggested. It will

:31:13.:31:16.

not surprise anyone that the Lib Dems are the most pro-European

:31:16.:31:26.
:31:26.:31:28.

The idea makes David Cameron for as a classic, the prospect of

:31:28.:31:32.

prisoners getting the vote. The government will place that vote

:31:32.:31:38.

before the House of Commons begin this week. Confused? He will not be,

:31:38.:31:41.

because we have been finding out more.

:31:41.:31:46.

When it comes at prisoners, the government has a problem. Some of

:31:46.:31:50.

them want the vote in general elections. A court has ruled some

:31:50.:31:55.

of them must be able to, the Prime Minister disagrees. In my view

:31:55.:31:59.

prisoners should not get the vote but we will have to sort this out

:31:59.:32:04.

one way or the other. Had agreed get in this position? It is down to

:32:05.:32:10.

prisoners who had a lot of time to think about it, John Hirst and

:32:10.:32:16.

others all fraud cases to the European Court of Human Rights in

:32:16.:32:19.

Strasbourg and in 2011 the court decided the British government was

:32:19.:32:23.

in breach of international law, unlike many countries in Europe it

:32:23.:32:29.

had a blanket ban on prisoners having the vote on deception free

:32:29.:32:32.

of the representation of the Peoples Act. That is not good

:32:32.:32:38.

enough for the court. Appeals, a coalition free vote overwhelmingly

:32:38.:32:44.

against, have not solved the problem. The governor, in this case

:32:44.:32:48.

the UK government, is keeping a very careful eye on this because on

:32:48.:32:53.

the face of it it has very limited options. Basically they have got to

:32:53.:32:58.

say yes or know. If they say yes they run the risk of upsetting a

:32:58.:33:03.

majority of MPs and the wider British public. If they say no,

:33:03.:33:09.

some ministers will find themselves in breach of Article 46 of the

:33:09.:33:13.

ministerial code and the UK government in breach of

:33:13.:33:21.

international law. But there are ploys they can use. Strategically,

:33:21.:33:25.

if the government wants to take on prisoners and the court in

:33:25.:33:29.

Strasbourg, it could choose the no option and say to them, really,

:33:29.:33:39.
:33:39.:33:40.

what can you do about it? If that happens, I think the immediate

:33:41.:33:44.

result will be that prisoners will bring applications and after the

:33:44.:33:49.

next election when they are denied the vote, Britain will have to pay

:33:49.:33:54.

compensation to them. The other strategy is to say yes, but from

:33:54.:34:03.

some senior QCs I have spoken to, saying yes, but just the barest

:34:03.:34:07.

possible minimum, to say to the court we have done what you ask.

:34:07.:34:11.

Those in favour say some rights will have to be offered.

:34:11.:34:16.

British government can say here we have a three year cut-off point, we

:34:16.:34:22.

could get away with that. I'm sure they could, maybe even two years.

:34:22.:34:30.

On Thursday there will be three options offered for a vote by MPs -

:34:30.:34:35.

extended to people serving on the four years, extending it to those

:34:35.:34:41.

serving under six months, or no rights whatsoever. If they plump

:34:41.:34:45.

for that, this fight against the European Court in Strasbourg can

:34:45.:34:55.
:34:55.:35:00.

only go on. My guest now join me to go head to head. Peter, the United

:35:00.:35:05.

Kingdom has a reputation around the world for supporting human rights

:35:05.:35:09.

and upholding the rule of law. Surely we have to obey these

:35:09.:35:14.

rulings? Absolutely not. What we are seeing on Thursday it is a

:35:14.:35:19.

departure. The government is saying parliament's decision will overrule

:35:19.:35:26.

the European Court and that is right. And we elect Parliament and

:35:26.:35:30.

not the court. We elect a parliament to take decisions on

:35:30.:35:34.

British law, we signed up to the Convention of Human Rights after

:35:34.:35:39.

the Second World War, we have consistently supported that. If we

:35:39.:35:43.

go away from it on this issue because it is popular and

:35:43.:35:48.

convenient, supposedly, we are in no position to criticise. Let me

:35:48.:35:55.

finish. You don't believe that. do, and I am trying to explain the

:35:55.:36:01.

implications if you take on this. If you defy at the European Court,

:36:01.:36:08.

your criticism on any other country that breaches the rules is 0.

:36:08.:36:12.

is rubbish. The court was set-up because of Stalin and the Second

:36:12.:36:17.

World War, not to give prisoners the vote. If you are telling me we

:36:17.:36:21.

can't criticise countries because they are executing people because

:36:21.:36:27.

we don't give prisoners the vote, I don't think you believe that.

:36:27.:36:33.

your real agenda is to leave the European Court Convention of Human

:36:33.:36:38.

Rights. The party policy is to do that, you are right.

:36:38.:36:43.

Conservative Party policy is not that as I understand it. You

:36:43.:36:49.

wouldn't leave the European Court? The British Bill of Rights is what

:36:49.:36:53.

would determine this. The Attorney- General says he supports the

:36:53.:36:58.

European Court, the Convention of Human Rights, and he praised it for

:36:58.:37:08.
:37:08.:37:09.

its introduction of gay rights, protection of civil liberties,

:37:09.:37:17.

protection of the popular press. Let's get back to prison of votes

:37:17.:37:27.
:37:27.:37:32.

rather than a -- analysis of this. Overwhelmingly across the main

:37:32.:37:36.

parties, they voted against it. What is the point of Parliament if

:37:36.:37:41.

that doesn't matter? Her point of Parliament is we have to have

:37:41.:37:44.

respect for previous decisions made and I voted for prisoners having

:37:44.:37:50.

the right to vet because when somebody is in prison they lose

:37:50.:37:54.

their liberty because they have committed a crime, they don't cease

:37:54.:38:04.
:38:04.:38:11.

to be human beings without human rights. Which one would you

:38:11.:38:18.

support? South Africa has given us a very important lesson. I want to

:38:18.:38:24.

ask this question - you want every prisoner to get the vote? Yes, I do

:38:24.:38:29.

believe that but that option will not come up. What happens if don't

:38:29.:38:33.

give prisoners the vote, even some of them, and we end up having to

:38:33.:38:38.

pay millions of pounds in compensation to them? Firstly we

:38:38.:38:46.

would not have to do that. UK law, there is already cases before

:38:46.:38:50.

British courts of those denied the right to vote and there will be

:38:50.:38:59.

more. If Parliament votes zero... That should be the end of it. You

:38:59.:39:04.

believe in Parliament, Jeremy. you ignore the European Court, as

:39:04.:39:09.

you seem to want to do, you are also ignoring UK law because under

:39:09.:39:14.

the Human Rights Act, the decision of the European Court are

:39:14.:39:19.

incorporated into UK law. That was the importance of the 1988 Human

:39:19.:39:24.

Rights Act which you probably voted against. Prisoner of votes, you're

:39:24.:39:29.

quite right. We are saying the European Court is subservient to

:39:29.:39:32.

the British Parliament and that is what the British people want us to

:39:32.:39:38.

say. We isn't the whole port of the European Court that it is above the

:39:38.:39:42.

parliament? Its subject your decisions to judicial review

:39:42.:39:47.

against principles you have signed up to? We support, and I think even

:39:47.:39:54.

we would agree on this... And I doubt it. I doubt it. I haven't

:39:54.:39:58.

said it yet. He is an intelligent person. He would accept the

:39:58.:40:02.

independence of the judicial system from politicians making the

:40:02.:40:07.

decisions. The judicial system, the Supreme Court of this country, that

:40:07.:40:13.

is where it finishes. It is British law, there for the British courts

:40:13.:40:20.

will make a decision. He wants to float the island away somewhere

:40:20.:40:24.

else. Would you allow prisoners to vote on the Police and Crime

:40:25.:40:29.

Commissioner elections? We would have a vote in everything. That is

:40:29.:40:34.

an interesting idea. You vote for people who make laws, you vote for

:40:34.:40:41.

European MPs... And the moment you can vote if you are on remand

:40:41.:40:50.

prisoner. But then you are not guilty. I would allow that! This

:40:50.:40:54.

would increase the turnout of these elections you have forced on the

:40:54.:40:58.

country. The one thing I learnt from the Police and Crime

:40:58.:41:04.

Commissioner elections is that you don't have elections in November.

:41:04.:41:09.

On that shock agreement here... The wasn't an agreement. No, it wasn't.

:41:09.:41:16.

It is the closest we have got in the last six minutes. It is

:41:16.:41:20.

approaching 20-12 and you are watching Sunday Politics. Coming up

:41:20.:41:24.

in 20 minutes, I will be looking at the week ahead with our political

:41:24.:41:34.
:41:34.:41:37.

panel. Until then, the Sunday Hello and welcome. Coming up later,

:41:37.:41:41.

with one Tory MP absent without leave in the Australian jungle, we

:41:41.:41:47.

look at how often the capital's MPs meet their constituents. With me

:41:47.:41:54.

today Jane Ellison and Kate Hoey, welcome to you both and we start

:41:54.:42:04.

today with Lord Coe's unhappiness over the failure to translate the

:42:04.:42:08.

legacy of the Games in to a lasting legacy. I find it frustrating that

:42:08.:42:13.

off the back of the kind of sport we have witnessed, the role models

:42:13.:42:17.

that have emerged through this process and the red carpet that has

:42:17.:42:23.

clearly been rolled out that we are still discussing the role of school

:42:23.:42:27.

sport in the state sector. The sick are concerned to you that the

:42:27.:42:32.

inspiration, no one denies that, but it hasn't translated to grass

:42:32.:42:40.

roots? I think it is a bit early to say and I think Seb Coe is talking

:42:40.:42:50.
:42:50.:42:50.

about the whole of the country. In London, and certainly in my own

:42:50.:42:54.

constituency, we have kept our school sport partnership going

:42:54.:42:59.

using a lot more of the community organisations, bringing in some

:42:59.:43:04.

private sector money, and actually some of my schools are getting a

:43:04.:43:11.

better sporting experience now than they did even three years ago.

:43:11.:43:16.

you know a lot of Labour colleagues are very concerned we got rid of

:43:16.:43:20.

the School Sport Partnership? one of the people who helped to set

:43:20.:43:25.

them up, and the aim of it was always to raise the importance of

:43:25.:43:29.

sport in schools so that schools themselves then began to realise

:43:29.:43:33.

that actually they could be doing so much more. It was not just about

:43:33.:43:38.

putting money in, and that always necessarily working the same way,

:43:38.:43:41.

and the partnerships between secondary schools and primary

:43:41.:43:46.

schools are improving. Obviously with money being short in all sorts

:43:46.:43:52.

of areas, what the Olympics and the Paralympics has done is made the

:43:52.:43:55.

public more aware that this is something they should be looking at

:43:55.:44:00.

in their own schools. I wonder if you would agree that at least it

:44:00.:44:04.

will be a disappointment if there is no legacy of sporting

:44:04.:44:07.

improvement in schools in the community after the success of

:44:07.:44:12.

these Olympic Games? I am sure everyone would agree that, but I do

:44:12.:44:16.

think it is too early to draw conclusions. Schools have a lot

:44:16.:44:22.

more freedom now, and it is important parents and young people

:44:22.:44:28.

put pressure on schools, they have a lot of freedom on how they spend

:44:28.:44:35.

the money. The budgets have been well protected. Do the teachers do

:44:35.:44:39.

enough? Lord Coe was talking about whether we should be looking at

:44:39.:44:49.
:44:49.:44:53.

what goes on after the 3 o'clock This is happening. When you go to

:44:53.:45:00.

most schools now, there are many after-school clubs. They are not

:45:00.:45:04.

necessarily being ran her by the school staff - the teaching staff -

:45:04.:45:09.

they are being linked with clubs in the area. I honestly think the

:45:09.:45:14.

wrong thing would be to impose a one-size-fits-all solution. We want

:45:14.:45:18.

to see the enthusiasm during the Olympics bubbling up in to pressure

:45:18.:45:24.

from schools and pupils and parents saying, we want to do more. We all

:45:24.:45:30.

want to see that legacy. This is an area with the Olympics. There will

:45:30.:45:37.

be a huge amount of cross-party support. I think he will do that.

:45:37.:45:42.

Let's move on to something completely different. According to

:45:42.:45:46.

a recent report, the City's financial sector has lost 100,000

:45:46.:45:51.

jobs in the last five years. It forecasts that Hong Kong will have

:45:51.:45:59.

overtaken London by 2015 and New York is also heading -- edging

:45:59.:46:03.

ahead again. The crash of 2008 brought an end the glory days of

:46:03.:46:13.

the City. Many are pessimistic that with the masses exodus, London can

:46:13.:46:18.

reset -- retain its status. Fewer people will be employed in high-

:46:18.:46:24.

paid jobs. There will be less of other things going on because there

:46:24.:46:29.

will be less money circulating. With finances here contending that

:46:30.:46:33.

the city is over-regulated and that a culture of banker bashing has

:46:34.:46:38.

brightened many away. People from all over the world come here to try

:46:38.:46:43.

to do business. I think we will go from strength to strength. New York

:46:44.:46:49.

will always be, it sort of the Wall Street giants, but I think London

:46:50.:46:56.

was still be the heart of Europe. - - giant. In 2007, there were

:46:56.:47:01.

350,000 workers in the city. By 2012, the figure had dropped to

:47:01.:47:07.

under a quarter of a million. Some say all is not yet lost. There are

:47:07.:47:12.

things like educating people to be more cautious about fashion --

:47:12.:47:16.

banker bashing. There is no point in killing the goose that lays the

:47:16.:47:22.

golden egg. The concern remains that but lingering uncertainty over

:47:22.:47:27.

the global markets, London is not in charge of its own destiny.

:47:27.:47:32.

Fraser Nelson joins us. He wrote this week that government policies

:47:32.:47:38.

and the constant - the rich mood music is accelerating to decline.

:47:38.:47:43.

Could we exaggerate the worry and concerns about the city using its

:47:43.:47:49.

pre-eminence? The theory is that these bankers may moan, they may

:47:49.:47:53.

say, I'm going to go off and live in Switzerland but they will not

:47:53.:47:58.

because London is a fundamentally better place to live. We're not

:47:58.:48:02.

talking about people upping sticks and moving to some Swiss valley.

:48:02.:48:06.

We're talking about banks who decide to expand in Hong Kong or

:48:06.:48:12.

Singapore, rather than expand in London. It is easier in Asia and

:48:12.:48:17.

taxes are cheaper. They can get better staff. London is in a global

:48:17.:48:24.

rest right now, not -- a global race by now - not just with Wall

:48:24.:48:34.
:48:34.:48:35.

Street but Hong Kong and Singapore. When we ran the race before, when -

:48:35.:48:43.

- Buchan see where the last race lead us to - I wonder if not so

:48:44.:48:49.

much dependence on it would be a good thing? It contributes 12p in

:48:49.:48:54.

the pound for corporation tax. The City of London is one of the

:48:54.:48:57.

greatest fundraisers in this country. We would take a carving

:48:57.:49:02.

knife to the golden goose at our peril. The contribution to social

:49:02.:49:08.

capital, what that the impact on house prices and good schools? --

:49:08.:49:16.

what about? Erasing the salaries at the top end. Does that need

:49:16.:49:23.

rebalancing? You can blame low mortgage rates and artificial cheap

:49:23.:49:27.

debt from quantitative easing. So many things are laid at the feet of

:49:27.:49:32.

bankers. We're talking a very small number of people doing bad things

:49:32.:49:36.

in the City of London. No bill reflected on the insurance people,

:49:36.:49:41.

equity researchers, people who make this city the greatest in the world,

:49:41.:49:45.

as I believe this is the stock everyone will appreciate that and

:49:45.:49:52.

London will always have that power. -- this is. It has the assurances

:49:52.:49:56.

and accountants that will make it attractive for people to come.

:49:56.:50:02.

Right now London still wears the crown. That is being wrestled by

:50:02.:50:08.

Wall Street and the Asians. We are not defending it. We are saying,

:50:08.:50:16.

you deserve everything you get! his everyone being too negative? --

:50:16.:50:22.

is everyone? The public were very angry at what happened. I think

:50:22.:50:26.

that probably a number of Members of Parliament and a lot of the

:50:26.:50:31.

public - and this is not accusing anyone of being naive - they do not

:50:31.:50:35.

really understand the way the City of London works. They do not

:50:35.:50:40.

understand the huge competition that we are now under, particularly

:50:40.:50:46.

from the eastern part of the world. I want to see the bankers who took

:50:46.:50:54.

the decisions that caused a huge amount of this -- the dreadful

:50:54.:50:59.

things that happened. They are the ones we attack. There was a time

:50:59.:51:06.

when anyone in a bank but really... That they were being got at.

:51:06.:51:13.

industry could do with the current regulation would some more

:51:13.:51:21.

regulation and bringing down to size. -- with some more regulation.

:51:21.:51:25.

Bringing down to size, it is slightly symptomatic of the place

:51:25.:51:30.

we have got to. They are not going to make Britain and London better

:51:30.:51:34.

off by attacking industries and areas that were pre-eminent. There

:51:34.:51:40.

is so much more to the City than the banks. There is other industry,

:51:40.:51:45.

manufacturing and so on. It is established there was some a

:51:45.:51:52.

balancing. We have to move on. We are halfway through the parliament.

:51:52.:51:58.

This is issued topic of debate. We need to move from anger and

:51:58.:52:00.

recrimination to addressing constructively and sensibly the

:52:00.:52:04.

things that really went wrong, particularly in investment banking,

:52:04.:52:08.

are not throwing the baby out with the bath water regarding what the

:52:08.:52:16.

City does. A final word from you. What would you like to see? We do

:52:16.:52:22.

like to see some active measures? would like to see the Government

:52:22.:52:27.

realising they are there for the people. The banks want to expand

:52:27.:52:35.

and create jobs here. The need a whole tone changed from the

:52:35.:52:40.

Government. -- we need a whole tone changed. That really needs to stop.

:52:40.:52:47.

We need these jobs, we need the prosperity. We want to maintain

:52:47.:52:50.

being be greater city in the world for financial services. Every week

:52:50.:52:55.

we hear from London MPs on the issues of the day. A significant

:52:55.:53:00.

part of their work is in Parliament but not all of it. As the row over

:53:00.:53:06.

Nadine Dorries has reminded us, MPs also have considerable constituency

:53:06.:53:11.

caseloads and many hold surgeries for face-to-face meetings. We have

:53:11.:53:21.
:53:21.:53:23.

been finding out more. The decision of Nadine Dorries to head to the

:53:23.:53:27.

jungle has not been to everyone's taste, it even got her suspended

:53:27.:53:37.
:53:37.:53:37.

from the parliamentary Tory Party. You could sell it, could you?

:53:37.:53:42.

Instead, some say, she should be doing things like this - putting in

:53:42.:53:46.

hours with local constituents at the surgery. For many, this ritual

:53:46.:53:52.

is the cornerstone of a Member of Parliament's work. In London in the

:53:52.:54:01.

21st century, how you use what is it? Good afternoon. The Thamesmead

:54:01.:54:10.

Labour Party, according to her, surgeries are from a different age.

:54:10.:54:15.

She spends more time stealing with -- more time dealing with problems

:54:15.:54:20.

than the political work. People want to e-mail and called. We have

:54:20.:54:25.

a system where, if anybody on a website sends me an inquiry, it

:54:26.:54:29.

comes straight through to my backroom so why can sit in the

:54:29.:54:36.

House of Commons deal with -- dealing with queries. Another

:54:36.:54:40.

reason is security. Stephen Timms was the victim of an attempted

:54:40.:54:45.

murder while holding one. That does not seem to have put people off.

:54:45.:54:51.

Sunday Politics spoke to every MP in London about surgeries. 64 after

:54:51.:54:57.

73 got back to us. The average MP held 48 surgeries last year. Over

:54:57.:55:03.

the year, seeing in all 720 constituents. Interestingly, it was

:55:03.:55:09.

Stephen Timms he told us he had seen the most people in 2011. There

:55:09.:55:14.

is one MP in the capital who does up hold surgeries at all - Mark

:55:14.:55:19.

Field - the MP for the cities of London and Westminster. He is in a

:55:19.:55:24.

unique position. He is the MP for Westminster. Rather than go out

:55:24.:55:28.

into the community and hold the surgery, he says people should come

:55:28.:55:35.

and meet him in his parliamentary office. This way he sees three of

:55:35.:55:41.

four constituents a month. In my first year I did undertake call

:55:41.:55:46.

conventional surgeries and I was getting about one, maybe two people

:55:46.:55:51.

a month wanting to come and see me. By only seeing people in Parliament,

:55:51.:55:55.

is there a danger he is more vulnerable constituents are falling

:55:55.:56:02.

through the gaps? -- his more vulnerable. I did give a thought to

:56:02.:56:09.

that. It is fair to say that with the formalised surgeries, because

:56:09.:56:16.

people can come here, I am receptive. People can come on a

:56:16.:56:21.

daily basis rather than according to a surgery timetable. We have

:56:21.:56:28.

very active residents' associations. It is wrong to suggest I am here in

:56:28.:56:33.

a bunker in portcullis House. Nothing is further from the truth.

:56:33.:56:37.

MPs may disagree about the best way to engage with constituents but

:56:37.:56:41.

many will say the traditional surgery is only one part of how it

:56:41.:56:51.

is done. Stephen Timms is here. Is it 2300 constituents...? I believe

:56:51.:56:57.

so. Have you had to put any long- term changes in terms of security

:56:57.:57:02.

at your office? We have reorganised the way we do the surgeries. I have

:57:02.:57:10.

people with me when I had surgeries. As an MP, you have to be accessible

:57:10.:57:16.

to constituents. That is part of the job. Do you do one surgery a

:57:16.:57:21.

week? Five a month. You will have a list of how many on an average

:57:21.:57:30.

Friday? For 40, 50. There a two people with me as well. There will

:57:30.:57:34.

be three conversations at a time. Mark Field does not think there is

:57:34.:57:42.

a need for this. There are different ways of doing the job, no

:57:42.:57:47.

doubt about that. The way it I operated was a surgery one or two

:57:47.:57:54.

weekends. I opened up the list of appointments on Monday afternoon

:57:54.:57:58.

but by the AFT -- on Monday morning but by the afternoon or the

:57:59.:58:05.

appointments are taken. I actually enjoy doing them. It is hard work

:58:05.:58:09.

but it is a very good way to get to know people. People really

:58:09.:58:14.

appreciate the help they get. often can you sum of someone's

:58:14.:58:21.

problem there and then? Presumably -- Ute Salford someone's problem

:58:21.:58:28.

there and then? I am surprised that sending their letter on behalf of

:58:28.:58:34.

someone actually does do some good. -- a letter. What people appreciate

:58:34.:58:38.

is having someone who is willing to make an effort on their behalf.

:58:38.:58:44.

They have tried other things. They only come to an MP as a last resort.

:58:44.:58:49.

They're glad there is some help available. You are a relative

:58:49.:58:55.

newcomer. How valuable our surgeries? I took on average won a

:58:55.:59:04.

week. I supplement them with Street surgeries. -- won a week. When do

:59:04.:59:11.

you do it? Often it will be late on a Saturday morning. Later in the

:59:11.:59:15.

morning I put my sandwich board up on a busy shopping street and

:59:15.:59:23.

anyone can stop and have a chat. that a recognition that perhaps we

:59:23.:59:30.

are moving away from that? Not at all. I think I agree with

:59:30.:59:33.

everything that Stephen has said that up by doing something on a

:59:33.:59:36.

street corner, people were not generally making a point to give

:59:37.:59:43.

their views about government policy or something but while being stood

:59:43.:59:50.

there, they might say, can I make you feel -- can I let you know how

:59:50.:59:56.

I feel about this and that? I do not do appointments. I discovered

:59:56.:00:03.

that people did not turn up on time. What we do is see anybody who turns

:00:03.:00:11.

up in a two-hour package. I have all my staff there. I do mind on a

:00:11.:00:19.

Monday because I am so near. -- mind. Despite the extra e-mails and

:00:19.:00:24.

the modern technology that my colleague took to that earlier,

:00:24.:00:32.

numbers have not gone down at all. -- talked about earlier. I have 30,

:00:33.:00:37.

40 people every surgery. The kind of people who want to talk about a

:00:37.:00:42.

campaign or issue, I would try not to get them to come to surgery. I

:00:42.:00:46.

would want them to come to the House of Commons. You are there

:00:46.:00:51.

last resort. They had been through everything. They sometimes just

:00:51.:00:55.

want to tell you how miserable and unhappy they are. The last word

:00:55.:01:05.
:01:05.:01:07.

from you. More frustrating than Actually I do find it quite a

:01:07.:01:12.

rewarding thing to do, mainly just because people appreciate the fact

:01:12.:01:16.

they have been listened to and somebody has tried on their behalf.

:01:16.:01:22.

Often it is possible to sore toe the problem. Thanks for your time.

:01:22.:01:27.

I have been amazed you have been able to provide it. Now it is time

:01:27.:01:37.
:01:37.:01:39.

for a round-up of the rest of the A lack of capacity at Heathrow is

:01:39.:01:44.

costing the UK economy �14 billion in year in lost trade according to

:01:44.:01:52.

a report commissioned by the airport. The bosses at Heathrow are

:01:52.:01:56.

keen to see a third runway built but the UK government has ruled it

:01:56.:02:00.

out for the time being. Westminster Council is investing

:02:00.:02:04.

more than double its spending to tackle domestic abuse in the

:02:04.:02:10.

borough. Margaret Moran falsely claimed more

:02:10.:02:14.

than �53,000 in expenses during her time as an MP, a jury ruled this

:02:14.:02:19.

week. She will be sentenced at a later date.

:02:19.:02:24.

And as the Regent Street Christmas lights are turned on, London is

:02:24.:02:28.

more likely to turn to pay-day loans than anywhere else in the

:02:28.:02:33.

country over the festive season. According to a poll, 23% said they

:02:33.:02:40.

are likely to take one out in the next month.

:02:40.:02:45.

Both of your patches by the Thames can leave feel the effect of

:02:45.:02:53.

aircraft, but Heathrow still see an opportunity now, don't they? They

:02:53.:02:57.

have long been putting the case they need more capacity at Heathrow

:02:57.:03:02.

and the fact we need more air capacity in London is established.

:03:03.:03:07.

I think it is misleading to say London is full because if you speak

:03:07.:03:15.

to people at Gatwick they will say actually we have quite a lot of

:03:15.:03:18.

capacity and they find it frustrating. But it has got to be

:03:18.:03:23.

in one place, and that is Heathrow, isn't it? There is a strong case

:03:23.:03:33.

for looking at the airport hub in the estuary. Will we be able to put

:03:33.:03:38.

it in one place at Heathrow, I am not convinced about that. Are you

:03:38.:03:44.

affected by this? And a lot of my constituents are very angry by

:03:44.:03:49.

aircraft noise, and depending on the weather they always want it not

:03:49.:03:54.

coming over them but it does get very bad over parts of inner London.

:03:54.:04:04.
:04:04.:04:07.

It just seems to me, how many years does it take to find out the

:04:07.:04:13.

information? I think he should be coming out before the election.

:04:13.:04:17.

should be, and all other parties were opposed to it so I can't see

:04:17.:04:23.

it happening. I am going to have to stop you there. With that, it is

:04:23.:04:33.
:04:33.:04:35.

In a moment we will look ahead to the big stories that will dominate

:04:35.:04:42.

politics next week with our political panel, but first the news.

:04:42.:04:46.

The Israeli military attacks on Gaza have now claimed more than 50

:04:46.:04:51.

lives according to health officials. Overnight an airstrike on the home

:04:51.:04:56.

of the senior Hamas commander is reported to have killed two young

:04:56.:05:00.

children living nearby. Hamas renewed its missile attacks into

:05:00.:05:07.

Israel this morning. Attacks on Israel have so far claimed three

:05:07.:05:13.

lives. This report comes from Gaza. There have been brief moments of

:05:13.:05:23.
:05:23.:05:23.

calm here. They never last long. This morning and overnight, Israel

:05:23.:05:30.

once again pounded Gaza with the tax. Among the buildings targeted,

:05:30.:05:34.

this one and another, where local and foreign journalists are based.

:05:34.:05:40.

Several were wounded, one lost a leg. Israel says they were aiming

:05:40.:05:46.

at Hamas communication equipment. The number of injured and dead

:05:46.:05:52.

across Gaza is mounting. Emergency services are at full stretch.

:05:52.:05:57.

Hospitals are struggling to cope. Israel, again, ramped up its

:05:57.:06:02.

operation last night, not only with the tax coming in from the air, but

:06:02.:06:07.

also from the sea. Israeli warships pounding northern Gaza with

:06:07.:06:14.

Attenborough rounds. And in Israeli cities, people work again

:06:14.:06:18.

scrambling to reach bomb shelters. After a two-hour break, which had

:06:18.:06:25.

led some to hope of ceasefire, rocket attacks resumed. On both

:06:25.:06:33.

sides, civilians are suffering. Back in Gaza, Israel is showing its

:06:33.:06:42.

military strength and there is no end side.

:06:42.:06:46.

Vince Cable has said more must be done to tackle companies legally

:06:46.:06:52.

able to avoid their corporation tax liabilities here in the UK.

:06:52.:06:56.

Speaking on the Andrew Marr Show this morning, the Business

:06:56.:06:59.

Secretary said their practices were unfair to British businesses.

:06:59.:07:05.

they are here, if they make profits, they should pay tax. There is

:07:05.:07:08.

nothing more galling to small and medium-sized companies that they

:07:08.:07:12.

have found these people dodging it when they are paying. Our own tax

:07:12.:07:16.

authorities have got to be tough on things like royalty payments, where

:07:16.:07:21.

a lot of the subterfuge takes place, but the big question is whether you

:07:21.:07:25.

can get wider global agreement. The operator at a level crossing in

:07:25.:07:29.

Egypt, where 50 children were killed when their bus was hit by a

:07:29.:07:33.

train, has been arrested following reports the man had left the

:07:33.:07:37.

barriers open and was asleep. Distraught families and angry

:07:37.:07:41.

demonstrators have prevented members from the Egyptian

:07:41.:07:45.

government from visiting the site. The British car maker Jaguar Land

:07:45.:07:50.

Rover has had the go-ahead for its first manufacturing site in China.

:07:50.:07:55.

Sales are up 80% in China so far this year. The project which is

:07:55.:08:00.

based north of Shanghai will be in partnership with the Chinese

:08:00.:08:03.

carmaker cherry automobile. They were assembled models tailored

:08:03.:08:09.

specifically for the Chinese market. There will be more news on BBC One

:08:09.:08:15.

at 5:50pm. Thank you. So a new man in charge

:08:15.:08:18.

of the Tories' election plans, more coalition jockeying on a wealth tax

:08:18.:08:22.

and crunch time in Europe for David Cameron. All questions for The Week

:08:22.:08:32.
:08:32.:08:36.

Ahead. So, a new man to run the Tory campaign, just looking in the

:08:36.:08:41.

Sunday Times this morning, he is taking Boris's election guru,

:08:42.:08:51.
:08:52.:08:58.

Minton -- Linton Crosby. A good thing or a bad thing for the

:08:58.:09:02.

Tories? A good thing, and as for this smear campaign he is known to

:09:02.:09:12.
:09:12.:09:14.

be a straight-talking Australia. I have said I don't care if he makes

:09:14.:09:18.

comments that are not politically correct and a lot of people replied

:09:18.:09:24.

on Twitter they don't care either. The most interesting thing about

:09:25.:09:29.

this is that David Cameron wants to have a disciplined campaign. One of

:09:29.:09:36.

his great strengths of Crosby is that he drives his message through.

:09:36.:09:43.

Last time it was a complete mess with George Osborne feuding, so

:09:44.:09:48.

clearly they want discipline. The danger it is that Crosby does not

:09:48.:09:52.

have a track record of fighting election campaigns on the centre

:09:52.:09:56.

ground and in this country you only win a majority if you are firmly in

:09:56.:10:02.

the centre ground. He was never part of the Tories'' modernising

:10:02.:10:09.

agenda, was he? No, I think Nick is right that they are not hiring him

:10:09.:10:14.

for his views on issues, but for his executive command, the fact

:10:14.:10:18.

that he can run a campaign. It is his technical skill, not his

:10:18.:10:23.

ideological views. Talk to anyone from the 2005 campaign, and they

:10:23.:10:28.

will say they found it a pleasure to work for him and he can take

:10:28.:10:33.

decisions in high-pressure situations. Three votes for him?

:10:33.:10:38.

Two-and-a-half votes for him. Ago him half the vote, great on

:10:38.:10:46.

discipline but I'm not sure he is in the right territory. Who else

:10:46.:10:51.

could the Tories turn to? Varies not many people in great supply

:10:51.:11:01.
:11:01.:11:02.

with the skills. There is still this matter to be resolved, the

:11:02.:11:06.

government needs more cuts in welfare to hit their spending in

:11:06.:11:11.

2015, the Lib Dems are saying we want some way of taxing the well-

:11:11.:11:15.

off better. This is what Vince Cable had to say about that this

:11:15.:11:21.

morning. It is right that we do tax and wealth is the obvious place to

:11:21.:11:26.

go, one of the reasons for that is because property can't run away to

:11:26.:11:34.

Monaco and Liechtenstein. If you are a -- trying to deal with abuse

:11:34.:11:38.

of the tax system, this is the best way. So they have not resolved this

:11:38.:11:44.

yet? No, some Conservatives do agree with shifting tax to wealth

:11:44.:11:49.

rather than income and George Osborne has some sympathy with this,

:11:49.:11:59.
:11:59.:12:06.

perhaps looking at an extra council tax band on properties over a

:12:06.:12:09.

million. David Cameron vetoed mansion tax and that is when you

:12:09.:12:18.

ended up with the four to 5p top rate of tax. Let asked the man who

:12:18.:12:21.

should know about George Osborne because you have written a book?

:12:21.:12:29.

The fine book, available in all good bookshops. Or or online.

:12:29.:12:34.

George Osborne go along with higher council tax banding for big houses

:12:34.:12:43.

and is David Cameron against the out the idea a few weeks ago. Even

:12:43.:12:46.

after that interview I still thought it would happen in some

:12:46.:12:51.

form during this parliament partly because it is the only way that the

:12:51.:12:55.

Tories get welfare cuts from the Lib Dems, but also because it is

:12:55.:12:59.

the only way the Tories can chip away at this impression that voters

:12:59.:13:09.

have that they stand for entrenched wealth. What David Cameron will be

:13:09.:13:15.

frightened of is that this does not hit people with entrenched wealth.

:13:15.:13:21.

If you bought a house for about �30,000 in London in 1991, it is

:13:21.:13:28.

now over a million pounds. This will hit... The mansion tax would

:13:28.:13:33.

have got the really rich, this will hit a lot of people in the middle.

:13:33.:13:38.

I think the Prime Minister is really aware of that. One of the

:13:38.:13:43.

repercussions of last week's election result was that the Lib

:13:43.:13:47.

Dems feel they really need a symbolic win in this autumn

:13:47.:13:50.

statement and they will be fighting exceptionally hard to get something

:13:50.:13:59.

like this through. We are not talking about the original idea,

:13:59.:14:03.

people will feel the council tax banding but we are not talking

:14:03.:14:08.

about the punitive amounts they were talking about before. The two

:14:08.:14:14.

is different. The CBI tomorrow. In days gone by, it would be one of

:14:14.:14:18.

the key lobby groups gearing up for the Autumn Statement, putting out

:14:18.:14:26.

its views and the rest of it, but the main lobbying - you have Vince

:14:26.:14:29.

Cable this morning lobbying for something in the Autumn Statement.

:14:29.:14:33.

Last time I looked he is in the government. It is completely

:14:33.:14:38.

different, and the CBI have all sorts of things on their mind right

:14:38.:14:43.

now. They want low at regulation from the government, and the

:14:43.:14:48.

government will move towards that in the Autumn Statement. There is

:14:48.:14:51.

an increasingly real prospect of a recession on the Continent next

:14:51.:14:58.

year with an economy as big as France being in serious trouble.

:14:58.:15:03.

think there will be. But not just in the periphery, and that, which

:15:03.:15:13.
:15:13.:15:14.

is something the -- which is antagonising the CBI at the moment.

:15:14.:15:18.

This is the new norm, this is how we will be under a coalition

:15:18.:15:21.

government and for the journalist it is quite nice because we have

:15:21.:15:27.

more of an idea of what is coming up. The danger for the Liberal

:15:27.:15:29.

Democrats is that they look like an opposition in government not

:15:29.:15:35.

getting what they want. Does the CBI still matter? I think so, and

:15:35.:15:40.

they will be doing their submission before the Autumn Statement. In the

:15:40.:15:46.

days when he had as many Labour correspondent, when the TUC and the

:15:46.:15:56.

CBI really matters, of course those Let's come to Europe. David Davis

:15:56.:16:02.

said, we should draw up our list of powers we want repatriated from

:16:02.:16:06.

Europe, go to the country and get a referendum to vote for that and

:16:06.:16:11.

that strengthens our position. I spoke to Grant Shapps and put that

:16:11.:16:16.

to him. He did not argue with that. He said we cannot trip because we

:16:17.:16:24.

are in coalition with the Lib Dems. -- do that. The real worry for the

:16:24.:16:27.

Prime Minister and the Tories on this was that they may not be able

:16:27.:16:34.

to set the pace. There is talk of a new European treaty being tabled

:16:34.:16:38.

this December, ratified in 2014. That will not sought Mr Cameron

:16:38.:16:46.

very well. One of two interventions on Europe are being made today. Ed

:16:46.:16:50.

Miliband has given an interview to the Sunday Telegraph. It is being

:16:50.:16:57.

played at this quite a big shift in the Euro-sceptic direction. David

:16:57.:17:07.
:17:07.:17:07.

Cameron says only by leaving Europe can you make it more British.

:17:07.:17:12.

thing about David Davis is it is a mixture of a lack of confidence and

:17:12.:17:14.

over-confidence - a lack of confidence there is a Brussels plot

:17:15.:17:20.

against Britain - when what he is complaining about are issues that

:17:20.:17:24.

have been signed up to buy a sovereign UK governments. The one

:17:24.:17:30.

thing there is a consensus against this country about the euro that we

:17:30.:17:35.

did not join and the over- confidence of marching into

:17:35.:17:40.

Brussels saying, we want this and that, and we wanted on our own

:17:40.:17:46.

timetable. That is not going to happen. Mr Miliband wants us to

:17:46.:17:49.

think he is more Euro-sceptic than he is and Mr Cameron wants us to

:17:49.:17:55.

think he has a plan but we have no idea what it is. The have not had

:17:55.:18:02.

this much-trailed speech about the plan. -- we have not had. Will a

:18:02.:18:09.

budget deal be done this week or not? Probably not. Not just because

:18:09.:18:15.

the UK has problems, the Danes have problems and everyone has problems.

:18:15.:18:25.

We could be right - all four of us. We will look stupid if we do a deal

:18:25.:18:30.

next week. I would even hold myself to account. That is it for next

:18:30.:18:36.

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