Browse content similar to 20/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
The worst hostage crisis in British history has ended with terrible | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
loss of life in the Algerian desert. What happens now as the desert | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
wastes of North Africa become the new front in the war against | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
Islamist terrorism? That's today's top story. | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
David Cameron's big speech on Europe got delayed, but all the | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
papers say it's soon and full of red meat for the Eurosceptics. | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
Shadow Foreign Secretary Douglas Alexander joins us for the Sunday | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Interview. And the Tories prepare to take on | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
the teachers in a row over performance related pay. Will it | :01:11. | :01:21. | |
:01:21. | :01:21. | ||
improve standards in our schools? The two sides go head to head. | :01:21. | :01:31. | |
:01:31. | :01:34. | ||
Another tough budget for councils And tweeting like crazy - the | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
political team with more horsepower than a burger from Tesco - Nick | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
Watt, Janan Ganesh and Isabel Oakeshott. | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
Exactly what has been happening in Algeria has been unclear from the | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
start, but some more facts are emerging and the news is not good. | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
This morning, the Prime Minister said that at least six British | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
nationals are either dead or nationals are either dead or | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
missing after the hostage crisis reached a bloody climax. Yesterday, | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
Algerian special forces mounted a final assault on the last Islamist | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
militants holding out at the remote BP gas plant. All 32 terrorists | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
have been killed, according to the Algerians, but 23 hostages are also | :02:10. | :02:20. | |
:02:20. | :02:21. | ||
dead. This is what Mr Cameron had to say from Chequers this morning. | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
It is now clear that this appalling terrorist incident in Algeria is | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
now over. Tragically, we now know that three British nationals have | :02:30. | :02:37. | |
been killed and a further three are believed to be dead. And also, a | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
further British resident is also believed to be dead. I know the | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
whole country will want to join with me in sending sympathy and | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
condolences to families who have undergone an absolutely dreadful | :02:49. | :02:54. | |
ordeal and now face life without these very precious loved ones. The | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
priority now must be to get everybody home from Algeria. Quiet- | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
spoken this morning to our ambassador in Algeria's and this | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
morning will be going to the south of the country to help co-ordinate | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
that absolutely vital activity. Of course people will ask questions | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
about the Algerian response to these events, but I would just say | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
that the responsibility for these deaths lies squarely with the | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
terrorists who launched this vicious and cowardly attack. I | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
would also say that when you are dealing with a terrorist incident | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
on this scale, with up to 30 terrorists, it is extremely | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
difficult to respond and get this right in every respect. | :03:41. | :03:48. | |
The Prime Minister. It has been remarkable how much the British | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
Government has been little more than a mere observer as these | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
events unfold. Yes. Cameron this morning looks absolutely exhausted, | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
doesn't he? It is a measure of how much pressure he has been under. I | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
was dealing with Number Ten and the Foreign Office yesterday and I was | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
struck by how out of the look they seemed to feel. I asked them, is | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
there a feeling that the response of the Algerians on Saturday has | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
been heavy-handed? The answer it was we just don't know what they | :04:20. | :04:28. | |
are doing. There was a real communication issue. Now that we | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
know the other European powers have the technology to find out what is | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
going on. We don't seem to have placed any satellites over what is | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
going on. We seem to be in the dark. Unlike the Americans, which raises | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
the question on whether austerity's impact on defence will be | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
problematic. The Government is talking about a commitment in North | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
Africa which will last decades. This government is turning out to | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
be a lot more internationally active than I expected and David | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
Cameron ever wanted. In opposition he gave no real interest in foreign | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
policy beyond Europe. He still hasn't given a speech along the | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
lines of Tony Blair's Chicago speech over foreign policy, but | :05:11. | :05:18. | |
we've had intervention in Libya, Mali, Syria, with Europe on top of | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
that. He's turning out to be far more globally engaged than anybody | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
would have seen two or three years ago. It is unclear exactly what we | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
could do or what we would have been able to do in terms of military | :05:31. | :05:38. | |
power. Exactly. When this first broke, on Thursday Downing Street | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
was very keen to make clear that they were not being kept informed, | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
that any of the events on the ground were the responsibility of | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
the Algerian government. William Hague -- William Hague this morning | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
did not want to criticise the Algerian government and it is | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
important to consider the context. The Algerian government in the | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
1990s for to a brutal civil war against similar forces and they are | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
going to take no prisoners. Liam has a very interesting piece in the | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
Mail on Sunday where he is saying the world has changed as a result | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
of the Arab Spring and one thing we must not forget is in some cases | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
these groups feel emboldened and a country like Algeria where the | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
Government hasn't changed is going to be very, very nervous about that | :06:27. | :06:33. | |
threat, which explains why they respond in the way they did. Let's | :06:33. | :06:39. | |
speak to Liam Fox. The article nick prefers to, you write that unless | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
we confront incipient terrorist activity before it can gain a | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
critical mass, we will have failed. Should we have intervened in Mali | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
earlier? We have to look at the wider picture. There's been such a | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
concentration of effort on what is happening in Afghanistan, Pakistan | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
and the Yemen that we've seen a number of factors forcing al-Qaeda | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
into a ungoverned spaces like the Sahara. We had the combined effects | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
of the Arab Spring, a balding some of the -- M Golden Ring some of the | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
more hardline groups. We had a lot of weaponry going down into that | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
area from Libya and we've had the squeezing of al-Qaeda as a result | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
of activity in Afghanistan and Pakistan and they've been displaced. | :07:28. | :07:34. | |
I read in the Sunday Times that this is a 100 years' War. This is a | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
perpetual state we have always been in against forces of terror. They | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
turn into whatever the political shape is required at the time and | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
whatever technology allows them to have. You are sounding wise after | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
the event. Your strategic at Defence Review, which she carried | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
out as Defence Secretary, fails to mention Algeria, Mali or the Sahara. | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
The Defence Review didn't look at all of those things. That was in | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
the risk review that we looked at. You ignore these areas. These are | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
vital areas, you are now telling us, but your Defence Review ignore them. | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
The British Defence Review can't look at the entire world. You just | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
told us that unless we confront incipient terrorist activity before | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
it can gain a critical mass, we will have failed. In 2010 you did | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
not confront it. What I mean by we is not just the UK. This is an | :08:31. | :08:39. | |
important point. The era when governments could choose to stand | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
back and say that is not a part of the world that we collectively are | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
going to be involved in is over. We live in a very interconnected | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
global economy, our interests, whether we like it or not, will be | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
threatened in many more parts of the globe than before. If we have | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
to find new ways of co-operating in terms of intelligence and military | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
hardware. We will have to find ways of co-operating with allies. If it | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
is for the Americans to put drones over these areas so that we can | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
collectively get better information on how to act, that is how we will | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
have to do it. We have to find new ways of co-operating better. Europe. | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
What are the minimum powers David Cameron would have to repatriate to | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
London for you to advocate staying in the EU? You have to ask the | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
European partners what they are willing to give us and ask what | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
sort of relationship we want to have. A number of my colleagues | :09:36. | :09:43. | |
have set out these are the 130 that we must get back. We have to be | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
much more fundamental. This is the type of relationship we want to | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
have with Europe, not quibble about which little bits we want back. I | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
think the British want an economic relationship, they want to be | :09:57. | :10:04. | |
trading with European partners and not a range of powers that have | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
increasingly interfered... You want a lot of powers brought back. | :10:08. | :10:15. | |
want us to return to a common market. Civil, judicial, criminal | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
matters, for working-time directive. I would like to see us with a basic | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
economic relationship. Her that it? Yes, at the people in Britain voted | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
in 1975 for the Common Market. say the prospect of being outside | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
the EU holds no terrors for you. Does it hold no terrors for David | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
Cameron? For myself, my preference would be to have renegotiated | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
relationship. Our I know your preference, I'm asking about David | :10:44. | :10:50. | |
Cameron. Her I don't think it holds terrors. For most British | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
politicians on the right of the political spectrum, we would prefer | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
to have the ideal solution of being able to have that type of | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
renegotiated relationship from inside. If we were put into a | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
position where the British people didn't like any renegotiated | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
solution, at a lot of countries exist outside the EU, it would | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
undoubtedly have some difficulties, but I don't think they could not be | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
overcome. If Mr Cameron succeeds in repatriating substantial powers | :11:21. | :11:25. | |
from Brussels and put that the British people bin and a referendum, | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
he shouldn't it be made explicit that if you vote against this | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
referendum, it is a vote to leave the EU. And in out referendum has | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
to mean that. If you vote for whatever the Government is | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
putting... But on a semi-detached business. Her a No vote would be to | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
live -- leave. We have to give that clarity in policy. For British | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
people think that is what in-and- out referendum means. If you want | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
the status quo, how do you vote? increasingly, if you want to have | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
the status quo, vote Liberal Democrat. The this is a referendum. | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
The Government would say if we won a general election mandate in 2015 | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
to renegotiate, this is the renegotiation we put forward this | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
is what the Government is offering you to choose between. Suppose Mr | :12:19. | :12:27. | |
Cameron Sharp -- Mr Cameron is unable to do a repatriation deal. | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
If that was to happen, should there be a simple in out referendum? | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
would be something that any government of that time would | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
consider. There has to be any knout referendum because otherwise we're | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
going to have award politics off constantly undermined by this | :12:42. | :12:49. | |
debate. It is important that we settle the European argument. | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
don't come as a country, get immediate repatriation package, and | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
roughly the status quo is all that is on offer, would you prefer to | :12:59. | :13:06. | |
leave? If the choice was between going and the current direction, | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
which is towards ever-closer union, and ultimately a greater and | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
greater loss of British sovereignty, my personal preference would be to | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
leave. I don't want to have ever closer union, I don't want to be | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
European first and British second. Is it not possible that Mr Cameron | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
could bring back a repatriation package which you would deem to be | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
inadequate and you would therefore be on opposite sides of a | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
referendum? Fat is a lot of IFS! Can your other one talking about | :13:37. | :13:44. | |
2018. We will see what we are able to achieve. We should not going to | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
a renegotiation believing they hold all the cards. I read all the time | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
that we will not be able to get this cup or they won't allow it. I | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
don't believe the balance of influence his or on their side. | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
we have to threaten to leave the EU to get what we want? It is very | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
clear to most of our European partners that they understand | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
there's a mood afoot in British politics, especially in the British | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
public, but they want a genuine voice of being in or out. Most part | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
as understand there's a mood in Britain in that direction. I don't | :14:16. | :14:23. | |
think we have to explain it. Is it true, as we've been told, Thet you | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
what -- you worked extensively briefed by Downing Street in | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
advance of the speech? Your Conservative Home speech | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
specifically set a bar that Mr Cameron could jump over and you are | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
lined up to endorse the speech? That sounds like wishful thinking. | :14:37. | :14:45. | |
I wrote my piece before I had any discussions about the speech. I | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
don't think anything I wrote was inconsistent with anything I said | :14:48. | :14:54. | |
before. A you satisfied with the speech? That would be going a touch | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
too far in terms of confidentiality. A I'm not asking you what is in it! | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
I was I broadly satisfied? Yes. I am broadly satisfied with what I | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
saw the Prime Minister was intending to say. If that is the | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
speech that is finally delivered, a great many of us will think it is a | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
speech we've been waiting a long time for. Are you been groomed to | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
return to the Cabinet? I don't think grooming is an acceptable | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
form of behaviour at all. A you know what I mean. I don't know, | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
those decisions are for the of Prime Minister. Friends say you're | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
anxious to return. I wouldn't say that was true. I have a lot of | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
things I'm doing. You would like to return to the Cabinet. Most of us | :15:37. | :15:44. | |
So much for the Tories in Europe. What will Labour? Ed Miliband's | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
party is currently riding high in the polls and at the moment is the | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
bookies' favourite to win an everall majority in 2015. In a | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
speech last week, Danny Alexander gave us clues about Labour's | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
attitude to Europe. Labour, he says, does not believe in an in-out | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
referendum now or in the future but he doesn't want to imply his party | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
supports the status quo. He says Labour wants a reformed and | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
Labour wants a reformed and plexible Europe. This, -- flexible. | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
This, he intists is not the same as an a la carte Europe where, each | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
country can pick which bits it wants it sign up to. His party | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
wants reforms in the Common Agricultural Policy. Although it | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
has to be said they have tried that bfrplt he says the kind of | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
immigration we saw after the last wave the countries from Eastern | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
Europe joined up, should not be allowed to happen again. Though he | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
doesn't explain now. Douglas Alexander joins me now for the | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
Alexander joins me now for the Sunday Interview. | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
You heard it there from Liam Fox, he is happy with the speech. They | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
will propose a major repatriation of powers. There will be a | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
referendum, eventually, when he does this, all predicated on the | :17:03. | :17:08. | |
next election, of course. And we will be given a choice to vote for | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
this most semi-detached relationship or in essence, vote to | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
leave. Which side would you vote on? I'm working hard to make sure | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
that David Cameron doesn't have that choice. I understand. But the | :17:24. | :17:31. | |
fact that this has been talked about by the former minister, Liam | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
Fox. It was a fair question, asking him if he wanted to go get into the | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
Cabinet, than the national interest. David Cameron was rendered | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
speechless because of the gap between what his backbenchers will | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
tolerate and what European partners will give him. I asked, supposing | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
the bookies are wrong and Mr Cameron forms a majority | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
administration, he negotiates and repat try aits and goes to the | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
people and say - either vote for this semi-detached position or out? | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
I want Britain to stay in the European Union. You will campaign | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
for yes. I'm not convinced the strategy David Cameron is setting | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
out is the right strategy for Britain. You would say rather than | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
repatrioting powers, Labour would leave the case for reform over the | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
whole of the EU. -- lead. What major reforms did you spearhead? If | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
you want to look at discussions we are having now, justice and hem | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
affairs the right to that opt-out in 2014 the government is talking | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
about, was secured by the last government. What major reform did | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
you achieve? Working with her European partners we saw the | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
exfenges taking in ten former Soviet Union... That had been | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
Margaret Thatcher's policy. If you look at the success achieved from | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
accession moving forward, the Labour Government deserves credit. | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
We lowered the proportion of spending on agricultural spent in | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
the budget significantly. We want to see it go further but it | :19:04. | :19:09. | |
continued to fall. It is now down to 30%. You say you want | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
fundamental reform of the CAP. All British governments have wanted | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
that since the common market Progress has been made. You didn't | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
get fundamental reform. You cut the amount of spending. It is still the | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
biggest single item It has fallen from 70% in the mid- 80s to a | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
position where it is 30% of European expenditure. Let me show | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
you what the French Agriculture Minister says." We are committed to | :19:37. | :19:44. | |
securing a strong CAP budget for EU agriculture." You haven't a hope at | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
all. Your point if one country says something, it doesn't guarantee the | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
other 26... I'm making a point on reform that has been going onp | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
since the 1950s. One minister can asay something but you have to | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
build a consensus for change. have never done that. That's the | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
dishonesty at the heart of a suggestion that standing by the | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
exit door, threatening to leave, Britain is necessarily going to | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
prevail. The last time a Labour Government promised to reform CAP | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
Tony Blair gave away a big chunk of Britain's rebate apart of the deal | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
and nothing very much happened. You were the Europe Minister. That was | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
nothing to do with the CAP. It had everything to do with accession. | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
The fact that that multi-annual financial framework was agreed | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
reflected the fact that there were ten new members of the European | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
Union. Of course the European budget was going to change in those | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
circumstances and incidentally giving you are quoting French | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
ministers, Tony Blair secured for the first time broad parity in the | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
contribution to the European Union between France and the UK. | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
Something that even Margaret Thatcher had not achieved during | :20:46. | :20:53. | |
her years in power. You say that Labour would lead the case for pro- | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
growth anti-austerity economic policies, building appliances with | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
European partners, rather than making enemies as you say Mr | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
Cameron is. Which partners currently in power do you have for | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
this venture snufrpblgts look at what happened in December 201 when | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
David Cameron walked out of the European council - A few months | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
later we saw Francois Hollande secure additional growth compacts | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
alongside a fiscal compact. He has introduced "the most austere budget | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
for France in 30 years." Mob is arguing there don't need to be | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
changes. You said you would lead the case for anti-austerity. | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
Balance between austerity and growth nooths needs to be right one | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
stkpwhrufrplt saying the President who has introduced the most austere | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
budget for 30 years is one of your part fers in leading the case for | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
anti-austerity partners. It is not credible. The person who is not | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
credible is David Cameron. He talks in his speech from the exbe tracts | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
we have seen about the difficulty of austerity being imposed in | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
Europe, which is what George Osborne and he are doing in the UK. | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
Why are you so against repatrioting powers on a major scale? A report | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
out this morning shows it is the will of the people. Is David | :22:06. | :22:14. | |
Cameron right to do so? 59% think right. 21 opposed. 59% think this | :22:14. | :22:20. | |
is the time, only 28% don't We will consider where the merits of those | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
powers lie. We think it is disingenuous to suggest it is | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
inevitable or indeed likely that if David Cameron goes with a very long | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
shopping list and demands these powers to come back, even in | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
circumstances where we are not sure there is going to be fundamental | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
treaty change that he is likely to prevail. He risks being trapped by | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
his own rhetoric. Are people wrong to want a major repatriation of | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
powers? Of course we recognise the concerns. Are they right or wrong? | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
The biggest deficit in Europe at the moment, in terms of the balance | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
between democratic change and a change in policy is a delivery | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
deficit. They want to see a European Union contributing to a | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
change economy but they also want to see other changes. We twapbt see | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
those changes in the late. That's why -- we want to. That'sy said we | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
don't sport status quo. He want to see Britain in Europe but with | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
change. Let's clear up Labour's position on referendum and on the | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
existing law which this coalition introduced which guarantees a | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
referendum in the event of any transfer of powers from Westminster | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
to Brussels. You told me you had "No plans to repeal it", I suggest | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
these are the weasle words politicians use. Will you promise | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
to leave that in fact for the lifetime of the next Parliament? | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
intend to. Ed Miliband said as much on the Today programme on Thursday | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
morning. We are not planning to change that. Obviously if there is | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
a new piece of legislation, we will keep it under review. Will there be | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
a commitment in the next Labour manifesto not to repeal it? I'm in | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
the going to right the referendum on your programme. We are not | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
planning on change the referendum lock established in this Parliament. | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
Will you in the next manifesto, will you privatise the NHS? We are | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
not planning on privatising the NHS either. So, you can answer that. | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
Can you tell me - will there be a Labour manifesto commitment not to | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
repeal the referendum? We will dedeal with this issue and other | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
issues at the time of the manifesto. Ed Miliband said on Thursday | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
morning we are not planning on changing the referendum lock | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
established in this Parliament. Will you promise, if there is a | :24:22. | :24:29. | |
transfer of power,, as agreed under Labour, to Brussels -- if there was | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
a transfer of powers from London to Brussels, under a Labour Government, | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
that you would put that to the people, as laid down in the | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
legislation? Well, that is established in the legislation. It | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
would need to be. Would you do so? It would need to meet the threshold | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
established by the law on statute. If it meets the statute threshold | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
it would be put to the people in a referendum. The reason people | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
expect you to be categorical or more so, is you voted against the | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
referendum legislation Yes at the second reading. They don't trust | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
you. Let me explain Ywe had real concerns. These were -- why. These | :25:06. | :25:12. | |
were share Bidwell-known europhiles like Bill Cash because it would | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
create concerns about the level of judicial review over European | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
policy. That's why it seemed we should raise the doubts. We didn't | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
vote against it at third reading, there wasn't a division in the | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
Commons. Are you prepared to rule out any kind of in-out referendum? | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
I don't think it is the right choice for Britain and I don't | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
think to announce a referendum years ahead on negotiation that is | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
haven't begun make sense. Can you say under a Labour Government, bar | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
what we were talking about, a possible vote on a transfer of more | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
power to Brussels, that there will be, bar that, no referendum? Well, | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
we don't believe it is right to now announce a referendum for years | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
into the next Parliament, as I understand is what is being | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
contemplated by David Cameron this week. | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
So there will be no in-out... Can you be explicit - will there be no | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
in-out referendum under a Labour Government? We don't think that is | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
a choice that could or should be made now. We believe it is the | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
wrong choice for tpwroin commit to up to seven years of economic | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
instability with investment under threat as we expect the Prime | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
Minister will announce much it is rarely rise in international | :26:16. | :26:20. | |
relations to ever say "never" and we will need to see the changing | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
shape of Europe in the years ahead but as we can anticipate the | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
changing shape of Europe today, we don't think it is the right choice. | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
Let me ask you about the developing situation in Algeria. Do you aggro | :26:31. | :26:38. | |
that parts of North Africa, known as the Sahell, the part from the | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
Atlantic coast through to the head sea are the cockpit of Al-Qaeda | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
terrorism and if do you, what should Britain do? I agree that the | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
Sahell and North Africa more generally is a greing threat | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
because it is represents ungoverned space. In northern Mali we are | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
talking about a country twice the size of Germany effectively under | :26:59. | :27:05. | |
the control control of violent extremists. I don't think it serves | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
the interests of Britain as a whole to serve the war on terrorist. I | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
think that language was harmful rather than beneficial. I think we | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
need to recognise this as a regional threat that demands a | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
regional response. I would like to see an African-led response to the | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
challenges in Mali. We have been waiting for that for over six | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
months Yes and there are Nigerian troops due to arrive in September, | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
which is why the French acted. Because they didn't turn up. They | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
have more than 6,000 French nationals in Mali. But it adds | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
urgency both to the mill train diplomatic response. It is fine for | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
you to say a regional thing. But the reality here, there is supposed | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
to be 5,500 West African troops going to Mali. So far fewer than | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
100 arrived. At the meeting they decided they couldn't afford the | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
military transport to send them. I would also point out - none of | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
these troops has any desert training. I wouldn't dispute of of | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
those points. I would dispute that the right response, therefore, is | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
to put British boots on the ground. We need to recognise, first of all, | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
that many of these insurgencies have roots that go back decades, if | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
not centuries and secondly, have we not learned that the truth is, the | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
way to respond to a insurgency may involve a military component by | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
regional force bus requires a political, diplomatic and | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
development effort as well. So far as you are concerned, the French | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
are on their own? No, the British Government have provided aircraft. | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
We supported that in the Commons. But there is a difference between | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
logistical support and being in a position where an immediate | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
response today leads to longer-terl challenges in the future. Frankly, | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
I think now is a time for cool heads and caution in relation to | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
the emerging threat in North Africa. Thank you for being on the Sunday | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
Politics. Should teachers be paid according to how well they perform? | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
The Government think so and from September it's giving head teachers | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
from all schools in England the power to decide whether or not | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
their staff can have a pay rise. It's likely to put Education | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
Secretary, Michael Gove on a collision course with the teaching | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
unions again. They accuse the Government of tearing up national | :29:10. | :29:20. | |
:29:20. | :29:22. | ||
Giving children the best education possible. It's what teachers, | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
parents and the Government all want. But, does performance-related pay | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
equal better teachers? Academies like this one in east London | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
already have the power to try that approach and the principle here | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
supports the idea. He says not all teachers should get pay rises. | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
have to be willing to say no because the peformance doesn't | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
match the expectation. It's become the norm that people move from the | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
main pay scale to the upper pay scale and it's become an | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
expectation, rather than rewarding the peformance of the teacher. | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
What's changing then? Well at the moment almost all newly-qualified | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
teachers see their pay increase automatically by around �2,000 a | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
year. So, a newly-qualified teacher outside of London who earns a sal | :30:08. | :30:15. | |
riff just over �21,500, typically sees that rise to just over �31,500 | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
after five more years of teaching. But from September, all teachers' | :30:19. | :30:27. | |
pay will be linked to their Key independent schoolteachers | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
review board was tasked with looking at the options by Michael | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
Gove, who has long been a supporter of the idea. The Department for | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
Education says that performance- related pay would reward good | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
teachers and it would help schools in disadvantaged areas to attract | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
and retain the best teachers. But teaching unions are not happy. They | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
say there's no evidence performance-related pay raises | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
standards and they say it is further reducing morale among | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
teachers. Helping his daughter with her homework, this English teacher | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
works at a comprehensive school in east London. He thinks children | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
will not be taught the softer skills employers want like | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
communication if teachers are focused on how best to earn a pay | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
rise. They are talking in a very narrow way, pass this bit and you | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
will get there. When you get there you find you don't have those | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
skills. The wherries with performance related pay that | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
teachers will be dashed the worry is that performance-related pay | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
will just make teachers worry about that sort of thing. Linking pay to | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
performance is an issue that could see teachers resorting to more | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
strike action, but the union that represents head teachers is broadly | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
supportive of the idea, although excepts there will be losers as | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
well as winners. Her there's no more money going into schools at | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
the moment so the head has to decide. If they are going to pay | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
some teachers more, they will not be able to pay others as much as | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
they would have done. It is how their children perform in the | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
classroom that parents will care about. | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
With me now is the former Schools Minister, Nick Gibb, and the | :32:15. | :32:25. | |
:32:25. | :32:27. | ||
General Secretary of the NUT, We already have performance-related | :32:27. | :32:33. | |
elements of teachers' pay, why do we need more? In the senior levels | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
there's some performance related pay, but lower down, teachers are | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
generally going up in increments automatically on the basis of time | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
served. We need to ensure their head teacher has the discretion to | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
reward the best teachers and an incentive to recruit the best | :32:48. | :32:54. | |
teachers. This is common practice in the private sector. The majority | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
of companies in the private sector reward their employees on the basis | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
of performance and if we want to raise the status of the teaching | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
profession, we have to go down this route. We attract the best into the | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
profession with more. Let me pick up a couple of things. He said | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
teachers go up on the basis of time served. That is not a point. | :33:16. | :33:22. | |
Teachers go up the pay scale on the basis of increased experience and | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
expertise. We've had an incremental arrangement since 1920 and although | :33:28. | :33:34. | |
it has changed quite a lot since then, it is really important that | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
teachers can plan their career. Progression in Pavey in teaching is | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
lower and slower than in other graduate professions. It should | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
automatically go up regardless of performance? There are already some | :33:48. | :33:55. | |
performance elements in teaching. You don't find people -- find | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
people into better teachers. If there's a question about someone's | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
performance, that needs to be addressed. If you look around the | :34:02. | :34:08. | |
world... You make sure they have the proper professional development. | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
The best performing countries, the best education systems are in | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
Finland, South Korea, Singapore. They recruit teachers from the top | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
third of students leaving university. We recruit from across | :34:19. | :34:27. | |
the ability range. We have to move towards that model. If you want to | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
recruit high-flyers into teaching, rapid promotion, a more flexible | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
approach to pay and progression is the way to do it. The problem with | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
that is that there would be rapid promotion for large numbers of | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
people. -- if there would not be. The amount of money being put into | :34:45. | :34:50. | |
school this year and next is frozen. You will not be able to promote | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
people unless you are holding down the pay of fathers. We all know | :34:55. | :35:05. | |
that teaching is essentially It is really important that we have | :35:05. | :35:10. | |
a fair pay. Other professions also work collaboratively. I thought he | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
would be in favour of this flexibility. It will enable schools | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
in deprived areas, that have a problem recruiting teachers, | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
headteachers will have the flexibility to pay beyond the pay | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
scales and recruiter maths teacher into an inner-city school, giving | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
those children who have been let down for decades by those inner- | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
city failing schools the ability to have a first class education. That | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
is how you close the attainment gap. Some of the inner cities have some | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
of the best schools imaginable. London is doing brilliantly. The | :35:45. | :35:53. | |
current arrangements... The existing system provides for | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
recruitment and retention points. The really critical thing is that | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
if those in teaching now don't see a career path, it will be a problem. | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
You know that we are still managing to recruit teachers, but we lose a | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
lot of them in the first five years. If Pavey is in dispute, we will | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
have even more difficulty. -- if Pavey. Her unlike a business, which | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
is bottom-line driven and easier to reward, schools are collegiate | :36:26. | :36:33. | |
places. Can you separate the impact of individual teachers on any given | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
pupil? Yes. You will not pay people on the basis of a direct formulaic | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
approach to the exam results of their students. It will be based on | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
a nuanced approach. Head teachers know how to conduct appraisals. | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
They will look at the overall contribution that each is making. | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
It is all in the hands of the head teacher. You'll have to be nice. | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
Head teachers themselves will be appraised on the basis of how | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
professional they are. Her Ofsted will look at how they conduct their | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
appraisals. They will be regulated? The head teacher will be appraised | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
by the governing body and the school itself is subject to Ofsted. | :37:12. | :37:16. | |
Head teachers seem to want this move, they think it would be better | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
at the teachers. For what is interesting is that in the | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
Academy's arrangements it has been possible for those schools to opt | :37:23. | :37:30. | |
out. By they haven't chosen to do it. When they have had the freedom | :37:30. | :37:38. | |
to do it. Why not? Why are they not doing it? It is a cultural change | :37:38. | :37:45. | |
in most academies. They signed up for the teachers' pay document. The | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
Government is trying to change the culture in our schools, to move | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
them to be more professional places so we can raise the status of | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
teachers. That is what happens in professions outside teaching. | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
that there's not much money around, does it not follow that the pot is | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
largely limited so if you're going to pay her more, you will either | :38:08. | :38:16. | |
have to freeze any of pain the less? Exactly. Not many! Head | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
teachers have to marshal their budget carefully and they have to | :38:19. | :38:25. | |
be able to have the flexibility to reward the best teachers. That is | :38:25. | :38:31. | |
how you raise standards. It is like an existential threat for the NUT. | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
You exist on national pay bargaining. This would be the end | :38:34. | :38:40. | |
of that. We've had a review body system for quite a long time. I can | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
assure users quite a lot of bargaining at a lot of other levels. | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
You know what I mean. The NUT is concerned about a lot of things. | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
Curriculum, the shape of education. Do you feel strongly enough to take | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
industrial action? Potentially. We will have a ballot. We want to make | :38:59. | :39:03. | |
the case for saying one of the difficulties, if you break up the | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
system, is that every school will have to have its own pay | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
arrangements and that will take the head teacher's eye off the ball | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
have overseen teaching and learning. A key element of overseeing | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
teaching quality it is the annual appraisal. It is not just about | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
sticks, it is about training needs to nurture teachers. Those teachers | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
not performing to their best up brought on and the extra | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
flexibility that head teachers have will enable them to be up to reward | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
and incentive eyes. You're watching the Sunday Politics. | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
Coming up in just over 20 minutes: I'll be looking at the week ahead | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
with our political panel. Until then, the Sunday Politics across | :39:42. | :39:52. | |
:39:52. | :39:56. | ||
Hello and welcome. Coming up later in the programme: | :39:56. | :39:58. | |
Our exclusive survey which will tell you whether you'll be paying | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
more council tax this year. Here with us this week - | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
Conservative MP for Harrow East, Bob Blackman, and Labour MP for | :40:05. | :40:12. | |
Limehouse & Poplar, Jim Fitzpatrick. Welcome. | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
First off, it was the first fatal helicopter crash in the capital | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
since official records began 37 years ago. The accident at Vauxhall | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
killed two and injured 12 others. Given the place and the time, the | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
consequences could clearly have been far more severe and it's | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
prompted calls for a review of the number of flights and tall | :40:27. | :40:35. | |
buildings in the capital. I think we need to ask a lot of | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
questions. Why was the helicopter flying if the weather was bad? Why | :40:41. | :40:50. | |
was there no warning light on the crane? Do we need to look again at | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
who we are allowed to fly in London? Some helicopters have to | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
fly, police helicopters and medical helicopter has a calf but there's | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
been an increase it in the last few years. That coupled with the number | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
of high buildings shows we need to look again at the regulations and | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
the safety requirements. And if some of the safety requirements | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
already in place have not been followed. People always want | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
something to be done after something like this, but do you | :41:21. | :41:29. | |
agree? There needs to be a review and there will be reviewed. The | :41:29. | :41:36. | |
Prime Minister said on Wednesday there will be a review. The Air | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
Accident Investigation Branch has got a very good track record of | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
getting to the bottom of what happened whenever there are | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
incidents and making recommendations. We have got many | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
more tall buildings in London. Regulations may not have been | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
reviewed for some time and this provides an opportunity on the back | :41:54. | :42:02. | |
of a tragedy. Records show that in the last 20 years there have been | :42:02. | :42:07. | |
about 12 incidents, at six or seven at Battersea, three involving the | :42:07. | :42:15. | |
air ambulance. This sounds like it might be timely. It is obviously | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
timely on the back of the deaths that have occurred. It did it ever | :42:18. | :42:27. | |
come across your desk? Was it not an issue? There was never a need to | :42:27. | :42:35. | |
review regulation on the back of any particular incident, but the | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
Civil Aviation Authority undertakes a continuous review of aviation and | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
safety is always at the forefront of their agenda and of the | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
Government's agenda. This provides an opportunity to say maybe things | :42:47. | :42:54. | |
need to be changed. Many other international cities, for high rise | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
illuminations, flashing lights, are far more prominent. I think of | :42:59. | :43:08. | |
Tokyo in particular. Having said that, that will be looked at. | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
the helicopters or the building's? I can't remember whether you were | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
somebody particularly keen on seeing the landscape of the city | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
transformed? We should have great sympathy for the relatives of the | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
men that died. And also express our appreciation for the firefighters | :43:27. | :43:36. | |
and emergency services. In terms of the landscape, I don't like tall | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
buildings and I think they are a huge risk. London's landscape has | :43:40. | :43:46. | |
clearly changed. It demonstrates that the problems we have with both | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
helicopters and aircraft flying across London on a daily basis. The | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
review has to take place and I hope we will get some proper results. | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
Something should be looked at, as the Prime Minister said. Indeed. | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
But the clear she has to be safety for everybody concerned. -- at the | :44:06. | :44:16. | |
:44:16. | :44:17. | ||
clear issue. This will give an opportunity to look at the cuts | :44:17. | :44:23. | |
planned for the London Fire Brigade to see if they are appropriate. | :44:23. | :44:33. | |
will be looking at that at some It is another tough budget round | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
for London's councils. Raising council tax has become unsavoury | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
for most political parties. And there is a financial incentive from | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
Whitehall to freeze it. We found not all are prepared to accept this | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
inducement. Once upon a time these offices were | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
filled with council workers. Not any more. Fulham Town Hall is to be | :44:55. | :45:01. | |
sold off a result of reducing staff and reorganising the property | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
portfolio. The savings will help Hammersmith and Fulham deliver | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
their sixth reduction in council tax in recent years. Often called | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
David Cameron's favourite council, they are untroubled by the fact | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
that the Government is giving them lest money. The country is skint. | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
And local Government is a high spending area and there are other | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
areas that the government has chosen not to seek reductions in, | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
such as health care. We are in a hole, so, therefore, it is | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
completely rational for central Government to look to reduce its | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
spending departments accordingly. If you talk to councils across | :45:36. | :45:42. | |
London a lot will tell you something similar: which is despite | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
Government splashing the amount of money they get, they have managed | :45:44. | :45:49. | |
to keep services going the way they have done bfrplt the way they've | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
done that is by backing more efficient and streamlined. We asked | :45:53. | :45:59. | |
every council about staffing levels. They are all employing on average | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
370 fewer people than three years ago but 80% have not shut a library | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
and nearly 90% have no change in elderly care entitlement. In one | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
borough it has gone up. But increasing tax to pay for that | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
isn't on the cards. 14 councils say they'll freeze it. Hammersmith will | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
cut it and two plan to increase it. Nine are yet to make a decision. | :46:21. | :46:26. | |
Seven didn't get back to us. One reason for the freezes might be | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
Government have offered councils extra cash if he didn't raise | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
council tax, worth the equivalent of a 1% increase. North London's | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
Harrow hasn't taken them up on the offer. They say the priority is | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
keeping libraries and children's services open. The council say the | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
only way they can do that is by raising council tax by 2%. That | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
number be is not just plucked out of the air. It is very important. | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
If it was over 2%, under new Government rules, it would trigger | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
a local referendum and the residents in Harrow would get a | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
vote on whether council tax went up or not. The council say that | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
decision has nothing to do with the fear of losing the vote. A | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
referendum is a huge cost to the borough. �300,000. At the time when | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
we are cutting expenditure across all areas, it's not something that | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
can be justified. Indeed, sich is the scale of the cuts from | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
Government, -- such is the scale, even with increased council tax, | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
Harrow will be spending millions less this year than they did last. | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
So, if it's possible to keep things running with less money, did | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
councils perhaps have too much to begin with? Privately a number of | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
leaders and chief executives will say they are surprised how little | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
difficulty and impact there has been in making what have been real | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
cuts. There is no question, local government have had far deeper cuts | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
than other parts of the public sector. Tpwhu raises the question | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
whether there is a tipping point -- but this raises the question. | :47:50. | :47:57. | |
Whether you can manage 5%, 10% and 15%, but not 20, 25 and 30%. There | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
are some things council is legally obliged to spend money on, the most | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
expensive of which is social care. It's expected to increase, some say | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
it a tipping point this. Led Barnet Council to draw up what has been | :48:10. | :48:19. | |
called The Grf Of Doom. Graph. It show house children's services and | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
social care is expected to rise while it's budget will fall. The | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
graph predicts all the budget will be taken up with these things, | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
leaving no money for anything else, no libraries, leisure centres or | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
parks. Some think this scenario may never come to pass and many in | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
London are worried while the cuts so far may have been manageable, | :48:40. | :48:46. | |
the future may look very bleak. Bob Neill has joined us a former local | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
government minister and Conservative MP from Bromley and | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
Chislehurst. We were part of the regime that offered this extra | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
grant. Are you all right?! Still alive?! Jim is amazed we have two | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
West Ham supporters in the studio. We will come to that. Not often in | :49:03. | :49:10. | |
front. You set up the regime that offered this inducement of a grant | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
in councils froze their council tax. -Ar yes have looked at it and have | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
worked out that doesn't make sense for them thae, fair enough, stpbt. | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
- Harrow have looked at it. Think it is a sad decision. There is more | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
to it. We said under the previous Labour Government, the Secretary of | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
State, if you like, controlled how much you could put your council tax | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
up by capping it. We got rid of that and said if you want to put | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
your council tax up by more than the normal amount, if you have a | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
really good case, you go and make that case to your electors. Harrow | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
have chickened out. They have gone for the maximum they can get away | :49:44. | :49:50. | |
with without asking electors Ydid they do this? Bob Blackmore will be | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
able it till, he is the local MP. Labour got fewer votes than the | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
Conservatives in Harrow it is last election. They managed the get nor | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
seats because of the boundaries. They knew they would lose. Harrows | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
electors will make their decision in two years' time. One year time. | :50:07. | :50:14. | |
But the sad thing is a if we had a brave council, they would ask that | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
question now, rather than take the money off them. What hold a | :50:18. | :50:25. | |
referendum and pay the cost. There have been referendums. How much do | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
referendums cost? �300,000? If you are going to be serious, Tim, about | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
localism, localism doesn't shop just at the door of the Town Hall, | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
it is about giving control back to communities as well. If you are | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
serious about localism, why don't you leave it the to the local | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
authority? The people to raise the money they feel are needed for | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
their local services and an electorate will decide over the | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
four-year cycle or whatever, whether it was competent and a good | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
use of public money. I think you are forgetting the history. This is | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
actually a devolutionry measure this government brought. In for all | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
the years under John Prescott, the years when Jim was a member of the | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
Government, the central Government proscribed the maximum budget. We | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
have got rid of that and allowed the local people in the community | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
to decide. We should be congratulated not criticised for | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
that. Collar if I something:. If local -- clarify something. If | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
local collectors wanted to preserve services and wanted council taxs to | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
go up, could there be a referendum asking for a higher rate for the | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
council, say Westminster - which want Westminster to put our council | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
tax up. Could there be a referendum? It doesn't seem to work | :51:35. | :51:39. | |
the right way. I think you are missing the point. Local councils | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
have a duty to provide a budget. They have the statutory duty to | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
provide the services. They produce the budget. In the old days there | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
was a national cap on what they could do about how much they put | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
their council tax up. What we have said is they can do two things.. | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
You are saying, no, they can't have the right to put up the council tax. | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
It is not the whole picture about localism. You are not giving the | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
whole context, if you forgive me saying so. The context is firstly | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
we are recognising for lower waged people, the council tax is a | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
significant amount of their cost of living so we have sought to | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
restrain that. I think that's desirable. Secondly we have said - | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
you have the statutory duty to provide the services. If you say | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
the way you wanted to provide those services will cost more, you should | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
ask your local residents. Fitzpatrick, what do you think? | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
think it's fascinating to be attacked by a fellow West Ham fan. | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
His heart is clearly not in it. The Government have changed the rules. | :52:41. | :52:44. | |
East London councils like Tower Hamlets, Newham and Hackney are | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
losing in Government revenue over �200 per resident compared to kings | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
stone, Sutton, Richmond, who are losing pennies. So the loss for | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
boroughs where there are greater poverty issues, where there are | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
greater needs, where there are more you will have nerblt, those | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
boroughs are losing more. -- vulnerability. It is great for Bob | :53:08. | :53:14. | |
to say - we are providing localism. Localism says trust the council. | :53:14. | :53:23. | |
But local residents then say, we do or don't endorse it. Let's bring in | :53:23. | :53:33. | |
:53:33. | :53:38. | ||
Black - Bob Blackmore. The area you represent, compared to Brent, next | :53:38. | :53:43. | |
door, Harrow is regarded as outer London but with inner London | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
problems, they are stkpwg to have to make �25 million worth of cuts | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
even before the rise. The clear issue is before the 2010 general | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
election, everyone involved in local government knew whoever won, | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
there would be reductions in local authority expenditure. Everyone | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
knew that. And everyone should have planned for it and understood it | :54:04. | :54:10. | |
was going to happen. Now -ar yes, for example, have turned their | :54:10. | :54:15. | |
backs -- Harrow, have turned their backs on Government grants. One of | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
the issue abouts a council tax freeze was that it was a one year | :54:18. | :54:22. | |
option. And people might have said it was risky because what happens | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
if the Government don't provide it next year. Now they have | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
incorporated that in the Government grant going forward. Harrow have | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
said not only are they going to increase it by 2% this year but | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
next year and the year after that. So what we are looking at is they | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
have rejected the potential, at least of �3.6 million of Government | :54:40. | :54:46. | |
money and instead inflicted that on the council tax payers instead. | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
final thought, Bromley, your local Conservative council want to do the | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
same thing. Bromley will ultimately take its decision. We haven't had | :54:52. | :54:58. | |
the full council meeting. What have they got wrong? Hang on. If would | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
helpful if you would let people make a point, really, wouldn't it? | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
Let me point out that Harrow receives one-third more central | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
Government support than Bromley does. Jim's authority receives | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
nearly three times' as much central Government support as Bromley. | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
you happy for Bromley to make that decision? I hope they will not. I | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
think all councils should be seeking to keep it down and not to | :55:23. | :55:31. | |
pass it on. It reflects that it is not something you can pin on Labour | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
over-spending Islington has said it can freeze council tax until 2015 | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
and made all of its savingings of �30 million on efficiencies. There | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
is a an inner London council, they can do it. Why can't Harrow? | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
Stkpwhroo look at Hammersmith and Fulham, they are redousing their | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
council tax for the sixth time in seven years. Look at Hammersmith | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
and Fulham. They are reducing. Thank you for coming. In | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
A are you has broken out over what councils are allowed to do to | :56:00. | :56:03. | |
clampdown on illegal sex shops. Westminster Council, is trying to | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
overturn a court ruling which says it cannot use the money it receives | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
from the licences for legal establishments, to take enforcement | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
action against illicit ones. Jerry Thomas has more details. | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
Running a licensed sex shop in Soho is an expensive business. | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
Westminster Council charges �19,000 for an annual trading licence this. | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
Amount and what it is used for has sparked a rou. The council contends | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
a large part of this revenue is required to help with the cost of | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
tackling unlicensed sex shops. However six proprietors of licensed | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
shops have done to the High Court and argued under an EU direct | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
riffive the proceeds from licencing sex shops can nobt used for | :56:48. | :56:58. | |
:56:58. | :57:01. | ||
Westminster Council believes this EU legislation could open the flood | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
gates for illegal sex shops. Audrey lieu sis here from | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
Westminster Council. She is a councillor who is the chair of the | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
licencing committee at the council. -- Audrey Lewis is here. What are | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
you going to do about this? We have appealed the High Court decision. | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
We have just had really quite good news, encouraging news, which is | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
that the Appeal Court have now said that they are minded to refer it | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
back to the European Court of Justice. But the basic principle, | :57:30. | :57:36. | |
why are you charging �20,000 or so to licence sex shops, using some of | :57:36. | :57:41. | |
that money, not for other purposes, but used to endorse and take action | :57:41. | :57:46. | |
against illegal ones? Well it is a general principle of how licencing | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
works. In every kind of category of licencing pretty more or less, the | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
cost of actually running the whole system for that group of premises | :57:53. | :57:58. | |
or whatever it might be, is - includes the cost of making sure | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
that illegal traders can't operate. But �20,000. How much do you charge | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
a casino, for instance? Casinos are in a completely different cat gre. | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
Is it anything like remote the �20,000. Why do you charge | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
particularly more for sex shops? The reason we charge this for sex | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
shops is because that's what it costs to us do it. Ten years ago we | :58:21. | :58:27. | |
had 60 illegal sex shops in Soho. We spent a fortune... Costs to do | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
it. Costs to police the whole area, the illegal ones included? Because | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
when you deal with an illegal sex shop you have to look at every | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
detail of how they operate. You actually have to look at the DVDs. | :58:38. | :58:45. | |
We have got people, sadly, who spend their time checking DVDs and | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
making certain they aren't containing disgusting things | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
which... But the principle you should penalise and make it much | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
harder on the legitimate ones, who are running decent businesses and | :58:57. | :59:02. | |
you have no complaint about, and make them pay for the cost. | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
legitimate ones have been greatful over the years, we have turfed out | :59:06. | :59:10. | |
the bad practitioners. There is a terrible market for bad sex | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
information and, unfortunately, people who do it make a fortune. | :59:14. | :59:19. | |
And the sex shops which have been reduced now down to six because we | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
closed another one yesterday, have been extremely grateful. It is a | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
way of just trying to curtail legitimate, you know, free trade | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
sex shops in the area, isn't it? it is trying help the legitimate | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
sex shops who have been making good money over the years. I suspect | :59:34. | :59:38. | |
what is hitting them now is they, like a lot of the retail trade, | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
they are being hit by what is happening on the internet. It is | :59:41. | :59:45. | |
not fair in terms of European terms, and you understand why the EU have | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
got involved, they have not just the normal costs of running a | :59:49. | :59:53. | |
business, they are having it pay this extra penalty, you impose on | :59:53. | :59:58. | |
them Every year we look at how much it cost. If we it got to the point | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
where we had foo illegal sex shops we would still have to have some | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
regime of making sure they weren't operating illegally but | :00:05. | :00:10. | |
nevertheless, across every type of business - it is also true of | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
premises like alcohol premises. There you have to spend a lot of | :00:13. | :00:20. | |
money on enforcement. You can asked me about casinos. I can't give you | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
a sensible answer because the Government stepped. In I wanted an | :00:23. | :00:31. | |
example. We will watch the appeal It's time for a round-up of the | :00:31. | :00:41. | |
:00:41. | :00:42. | ||
rest of the political news in 60 314 mobile phones are stolen every | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
day in the capital. It was revealed as the Met launched a campaign to | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
cut street robbery. Mobile thefts account for 70% of items taken in | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
personal robberies. To taxi for Peter Hendy. The boss | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
of Transport for London her boss might expenses were revealed, | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
including the cost of 400 cab journeys. | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
Is this camera Hammersmith and Fulham's golden goose. This | :01:09. | :01:14. | |
reduction has netted the council nearly �300 million in fines as | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
motorists get caught waiting to turn at traffic lights. | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
London Premiership football clubs are paying for just 60% of the | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
policing costs incurred during their matches. Some of the richest | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
football clubs in the country are not paying the full cost of the | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
policing costs for their matches. Chelsea came close to bottom of | :01:34. | :01:42. | |
this London League, stumping up just 36% of the costs. | :01:42. | :01:49. | |
More bad news for Chelsea! Let's talk about West Ham. London clubs | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
are quite happy to pay for policing inside the grounds, but not outside, | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
is that sustainable? I don't think so. We for tax avoidance of | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
Starbucks and Amazon and the others, the whole spotlight of corporations | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
paying the appropriate level of tax on the appropriate amount for | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
services such as policing football matches is in sharp relief. The | :02:13. | :02:19. | |
fact that clubs in London on not paying an appropriate about... | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
Boris Johnson say come on, this can't remain. One of the problems | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
is that for a lot of local authorities and police authorities | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
with in London, it is a huge drain on the resources. In Hammersmith | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
and Fulham they have three Premier League clubs. It is quite clear | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
that football clubs are charging spectators huge money, let's make | :02:41. | :02:51. | |
:02:51. | :02:54. | ||
sure they pay for policing. Thank In a moment, we'll look ahead to | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
the big stories that will dominate politics next week with our | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
political panel, but first the news at noon with Maxine Mawhinney. | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
Good afternoon. The Prime Minister has said that | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
three British nationals are now known to have been killed during | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
the hostage crisis at a gas plant in Algeria. David Cameron said | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
three more British nationals and a British resident were also feared | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
dead. Algeria said its special forces ended the stand-off | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
yesterday because Islamist militants were planning to blow up | :03:17. | :03:27. | |
:03:27. | :03:30. | ||
the site. This report from James The four day siege is finally over. | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
These pictures are believed to show one of the first attempts by | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
Algerian forces to end it. Algeria says at least 23 hostages and 32 | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
militant hostage takers are dead. These are glimpses of the ordeal | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
suffered by the hostages. They seem to show workers so rendering in | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
front of the kidnappers. responsibility for these deaths | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
lies squarely with the terrorists who launched this vicious and | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
cowardly attack. I would also say that when you're dealing with a | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
terrorist incident on this scale, with up to 30 terrorists, it is | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
very difficult to respond and to get this right in every respect. | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
The crisis began on Wednesday morning when gunmen attacked the | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
desert gas complex, taking hundreds hostage. On Thursday an initial | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
assault by Algerian forces killed militants and captive stock | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
although many other hostages escaped. Yesterday, with 11 Gardner | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
et -- gunmen holed up with seven hostages, the Algerian army stormed | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
the complex. A special British team has been sent to the area to help | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
the surviving and repatriate the dead. Many British hostages have | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
already returned home. These pictures shown on Algerian | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
television are said to be part of the arsenal of weapons used by the | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
militants. This is apparently what one freed hostage saw as he walked | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
past some victims. Another indication of a horrors of the past | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
few days. Tributes have been paid to four | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
climbers who were killed by an avalanche in the Scottish Highlands. | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
A service was held in their memory at a church in Glencoe. The party | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
of six were caught up in the avalanche on Bidean Nam Bian | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
yesterday afternoon. Around 260 flights are to be | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
cancelled at Heathrow and several Eurostar trains between London and | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
Brussels and Paris have also been cancelled. Ice and freezing | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
temperatures are expected across the UK, as well as more snow for | :05:26. | :05:36. | |
the next week. Louise Hubball is in Barton in Cambridgeshire for us now. | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
It has been snowing heavily in Cambridgeshire for around the past | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
hour. Snow and ice are already causing problems on unquoted roads. | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
We are expected significant snowfall here and in the south-east, | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
East and parts of the country, of the North Midlands and possibly | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
into north-east Wales. The advice for motorists is to check your | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
local forecast before travelling and be aware of the icy conditions. | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
Rail and air passengers are also advised to check your services are | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
running before leaving home. Thank you. | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
That's all the news for now - there will be more here on BBC One at | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
Thank you. So, Friday's big speech got cancelled, leaving Fleet | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
Street's finest stranded in Amsterdam. What did they all find | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
to do? We learned this morning that David Cameron is determined to make | :06:30. | :06:40. | |
:06:40. | :06:45. | ||
Europe the big story in The Week From Dr Fox, he has seen the speech, | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
he is pretty happy and he thinks the referendum, if we ever get to | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
that, saying either vote for this package of repatriated powers | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
although no against it, the same as voting out. In-out referendum. | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
is interesting is all the attention this week has been on the Tory | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
position on this, but actually all the polls point to have a | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
convincing Labour majority in the next election. The most interesting | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
thing to look at is what Labour's position is and what they will | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
offer people. What I find curious is that Labour seems so determined | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
to deny people their say on this issue. They are not prepared to | :07:25. | :07:34. | |
commit to a referendum. We got Mr Alexander saying we will not get | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
rid of the referendum Locke. That is the easiest because that only | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
affects powers going from London to Brussels. Under Labour that is | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
unlikely. I am still not sure if he categorically rules out an in-out | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
referendum. He doesn't want one. For Labour Party is in a difficult | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
position. It will look difficult if that the next election they say we | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
don't need to renegotiate the terms of membership and we don't need a | :07:58. | :08:04. | |
referendum. But they are concerned that if Ed Miliband were to become | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
Prime Minister, he would lumber himself with a referendum. Have so | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
we are seeing with this delayed speech by the Prime Minister, it -- | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
it is a nightmare once you commit yourself to a referendum. They are | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
persuaded by the Michael Heseltine argument, how can you call a | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
referendum on a negotiation you don't know whether it will take | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
place? If it doesn't take place -- if it does take place, you don't | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
know when or what it will end up with. That is quite difficult. | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
Meanwhile you have a question over the membership of the EU. Kit is a | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
bold thing to say and that is why Dr Fox seemed reasonably happy to | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
say if I can do it, I will offer you this more semi-detached | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
relationship with Europe and if you reject that, we are out. It raises | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
expectations for that renegotiation. I would not do that. I would expect | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
he renegotiate very little, if those renegotiate since happen at | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
all. We have seen some of the extracts of this speech and what | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
struck me about them was how cautious they were. Or he says his | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
we should reform Europe, he doesn't mention renegotiation or specified | :09:16. | :09:22. | |
areas of law he is trying to bring back. It is either my way of a | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
highway. A repatriation or out. He has kept that back. He is holding | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
it back so it has the maximum possible political impact. I don't | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
know how Nick or Isabelle feel, but I suspect that will work. I want to | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
show you this. Mr Cameron's position even makes Taiwanese | :09:44. | :09:52. | |
television. Eurosceptics have long complained about subsidies to the | :09:52. | :09:59. | |
EU. They want an in-out referendum. At the same time, Cameron has | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
strong -- drawn criticism from its junior coalition partner. Meanwhile, | :10:06. | :10:14. | |
Cameron has been flanked by UKIP, which is riding high in the polls | :10:14. | :10:23. | |
and drawn support from Tories. Taiwanese take on British politics! | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
This buys Mr Cameron time. Yes. I am slightly lost for words after | :10:28. | :10:35. | |
that clip! We can't afford these graphics. What I've taken from | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
talking to Tory MPs this week, who have seen these brief extract of | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
the speech, and some of whom have been taken and confidence about | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
what the speech will say, they seem to be fairly happy. There's always | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
going to be a hardcore of 25 or so who are hostile. If he can live | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
with that. Exactly. A Liam Fox is happy with the speech and he wants | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
us to go back to the Common Market. Going back to the Common Market | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
means dismantling Margaret Thatcher's greatest legacy, the | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
single market. The rules of the single market are decided on the | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
basis of qualified majority voting where nobody has a veto. David | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
Cameron will not dismantle VAT and Liam Fox thinks he is going to. You | :11:18. | :11:25. | |
have to have one of the other. Let's move on to plebgate. You had | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
a story of the Sunday Times this morning. For public administration | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
committee is going to have a go at the Cabinet Secretary and it thinks | :11:35. | :11:41. | |
he made a mess of the investigation. That's right. The report published | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
shortly will be extremely uncomfortable reading for Jeremy | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
Heywood and Number Ten. It will be highly critical of the way Number | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
Ten handled the affair. It will raise serious questions about why, | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
when Jeremy Heywood, who was given a role investigating what happened, | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
he admitted he was suspicious that Andrew Mitchell might have been a | :12:03. | :12:10. | |
victim of what he described as a gigantic conspiracy. Why did Number | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
Ten allow Andrew Mitchell to swim in the wind for three weeks? Should | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
week preparing for the return of Mr Mitchell and Mr Fox, Dr Fox? | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
Perfectly conceivable that both will be back before the next | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
election. This is far more of the Jeremy Heywood story. I can't think | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
of the last civil servant in this country who was last talked about | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
so much in public. He divides opinion. Some say he is too | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
influential and some say he is a restraining force on the reformers | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
in government. Let's not forget there's a political decision made | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
in Downing Street. That was that the only way to save Andrew | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
Mitchell was to accuse the police of lying and that was a line they | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
were not prepared to grasp at that stage. They would be now! For a | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
would be willing now. Jeremy Heywood was very lackadaisical and | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
he did not do anything about it. They were not willing to take on | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
the police. Will he required? will probably come through this. He | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
is a very powerful figure. It depends whether the people under | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
him up a pair to knife him. For a couple of months ago he could walk | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
on water. I think he will recover because there's a vacuum of | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
authority in Number Ten and he fills it. The Prime Minister has | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
known him for 20 years because he was private secretary to Norman | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
Lamont when he was a special adviser and he highly rates him. | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
have more snow coming this week. It will bring the country to a halt | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
again! We have the GDP figures for the last quarter of last year which | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
may show we are back in another dip. More good news for the Government! | :13:49. | :13:57. | |
We will cover all of that next week. For today, that's all. Jo Coburn | :13:57. | :14:01. |