05/05/2013 Sunday Politics London

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

The so-called clown's hat the last love in the local elections and

claimed to be changing this shape of British politics. -- had the

last love. Where next for David Cameron. He is talking to men in

white coats. It means they must have gone to Eton College. We will

get the thoughts of former party chairman David Davis. How did Ed

Miliband faire? Abridge, must do better, say some Labour folk. We

will ask a supporter why he can't improve his game.

As the UKIP surge grabs the headlines, what does the redrawing

of the political map in the Home Counties mean for next year's

elections in the capital? With me as always we have gathered

the nastiest fruitcakes we could find. Three famous Westminster

clowns. They will be treating their slapstick throughout the show.

The front pages are dominated by the Deputy Speaker of the House of

Commons, Nigel Evans, who was arrested yesterday on suspicion of

rape and sexual assault. He is MP for the Ribble Valley. He was

questioned about alleged attacks on two men in his Lancaster's --

Lancashire constituency. He was released on bail. An hour ago he

spoke for the first time. Yesterday I was interviewed by the police

concerning two complaints, one of which dates back four years, made

by two people well known to each other and until yesterday, I

regarded them as friends. The complaints are completely untrue. I

cannot understand why they have been made, especially as I have

continued to socialise with one of them as recently as last week. I

appreciate the way the police have handled this in a sensitive manner.

I would like to thank colleagues, friends and members of the public

who have expressed support and like me, a sense of incredulity at these

events. And that was his statement this

morning. We have since learned he continues as Deputy Speaker. He is

not stepping down for the interim. There is a surprise throughout

Westminster on all sides. Philip Hammond was on the Andrew Marr show.

He spoke for a lot of people at Westminster when he said he was

shocked by the allegations. Nigel Evans is a popular figure with all

political parties. This is why he became top of the ballot for the

role of deputy speaker after the general election. Interestingly,

Philip Hammond was asked if he could continue as deputy speaker

and he said that was a matter for the Speaker of the House of Commons.

He thought it difficult to do that high-profile job while he fights

the allegations. I am thrilled the police are taking such allegations

seriously. A theme and headlines has been the fact that those kinds

of allegations have not been taken seriously in the past. The naming

of people being arrested. There will be interest in that. It is

right he was named. But he will be going through the mill for the next

couple of weeks. He was also a good deputy speaker. He shone during the

Budget debate. I have always found him authoritative and less

provocative than the Speaker. If he has to step down for the duration

of the legal issue, and there is no sign of the moment, it will be a

loss to Westminster. Forget clowns and fruitcakes, it is all about

cheese. The Education Secretary said established politicians are

akin to the safe pasteurised cheese while UKIP are like the rich,

stinky variety. People say they are like Emmenthal, their policies are

full of holes. They took chunks out full of holes. They took chunks out

of the other parties' cheese boards. This is what they ended up with...

The number of councils they control has gone down. Labour has 538

councillors. It controls three councils. The Liberal Democrats on

down to 352. They lost 124. They failed to take control of any

councils. UKIP has 147 councillors, an increase of 139. They have no

control of a council. The share of the vote translates into a

projected national share of the vote of 25% for the Conservatives,

vote of 25% for the Conservatives, vote of 25% for the Conservatives,

four points behind Labour. For the first time ever, nobody got

more than 30% of the vote in the projections. Giles spent the day

behind the scenes at the elections. In the world of politics, and in

particular elections, voters often one to peel away the gloss and the

graphics and see behind the scenes. To ask, what are the politicians

thinking? What his staff reflect on in private? What to the strategists

plot as a result? Were a come back to the BBC election centre. --

welcome back. On Friday, the problem was simple. A man dismissed

as a clown leading a party labelled as fruitcakes walked into the space

occupied by the main parties, took votes off them and made them take

notice. Especially the Conservatives. They are not

connecting with people. These were shire elections. England's green

and pleasant land. People still go to church. Things like that. For

traditional Conservative voters, particularly with Margaret Thatcher

died recently, it reminded them they had an leader who was

unashamedly patriotic. They talked about enterprise and business. Now

they have someone from Notting Hill. He talks about gay marriage being a

priority, and thinks that building wind turbines is a good idea. And

thinks the foreign aid budget is a priority over defence. Essex is

priority over defence. Essex is priority over defence. Essex is

fascinating because the fascinating because the

Conservatives have come down. Look Conservatives have come down. Look

at the UKIP bar. Crunching the numbers. It is clear the emergent

party is purple. In stands out. Virtually all the other parties are

looking at a response and what changes they have to make to

counter this surge by UKIP. Labour know that whether UKIP is the cause,

their success was all right. It was nothing to write home about.

the Liberal Democrats, seven in South Shields. Back is a poor

results. It was the Tories who took the biggest hit by UKIP. Was it

wise of David Cameron and Ken Clarke to have been little then?

You have to be open and welcoming of people of all political

persuasions. If people wanted to vote for other parties, we

acknowledge that. It is not their problem for wanting to vote, it is

the political class's problem for not listening. Some MPs are clear

about trust. The leadership has underestimated the extent to which

the public do not trust politicians when it comes to promises on EU.

Too many have been broken in the past. The Conservative backbenchers

are trying to get the Government to commit to a referendum and

fundamentally bring the legislation forward into this Parliament, so

people know we are serious. Europe and other issues, one

Conservative went further, telling me, if I do not believe the Prime

Minister's promises, why should the electric? Does the Prime Minister

entertain a packed with UKIP? May be in some places he will not be

able to choose. I suspect we will see local agreements made. Where

Conservatives are the largest party and there is a sizable UKIP group.

Local politics does end up as more collaborative than national

politics. Whatever the case, the political landscape has been

significantly altered. Thanks for watching. Goodbye.

Earlier I spoke to a member of the European -- parliament, Godfrey

Bloom. What will his party do for an encore? That is a good point. An

average of 25% of the vote across the country is an extraordinary

success. We will have to build on that. We have to have seats in

Westminster if we can put the sort of pressure on the Prime Minister

and this administration that we need to do. Elections are one thing.

We have to get to grips with this at Prime Minister's Question Time.

I would like to see Nigel Farage get at his throat at Prime

Minister's Question Time. You have the European elections next year.

Is it a dangerous, or encouraging, that you are expected to come first

in the European elections? We came second in 2009. We were growing all

the way through that. I thought we were bound to come first in 2015.

2014, rather. That is what is going to happen. Even if we make no

progress from now, with the percentage of vote we are getting,

we would be the first party in the EU elections. We do not need to

grow much now to make sure that happens. Would you support a

mandate referendum later this year or next year in which people would

get the chance to vote to give the Government authority to renegotiate

the terms of membership with Brussels? And when that is done,

have a referendum on the new terms? It is intellectually disingenuous.

The trouble with this administration and previous

administrations is they never meet the treaty's they signed. We know

Ken Clarke admitted he did not read one treaty signed. That is being a

clown if I ever saw anything. The European Union membership is not

something we can have, you cannot pick it off the shelf. You have

everything or none of it. They have made that clear. It is something

the Prime Minister and administration cannot deliver.

that people take you seriously. How will you fill the black hole in the

tax and spend policies? That was part of the Times newspaper

misinformation service. There is not a black hole. They flagged up

tax cuts we intend to make but made no mention of the way we would say

spending. We can save �50 million the year on crime gos. What

happened to the bonfire of quangos? -- quangos. We spend 1 million a

month on overseas aid to countries such as Argentina, China and the

Indian sub-continent. That would go. If you look up fake charities, we

spent �1 billion a month on fake charities. They are political lobby

groups. We have shown we can make up to �80 billion of savings. The

growth in the economy by getting rid of criminal 20% VAT, government

spending is almost 50% of GDP. The black hole is an invention of the

Conservative Party press. All that you need is a pocket calculator to

work it out. That is a bar of the Chancellor's remit. You are already

ducking and diving on policy. You are softening the stance on

immigration. You did a U-turn on high-speed rail. If you look at

that carefully, we were in favour of reinforcing and improving on the

rail system. We were never in favour of a short-term high-speed

rail running from London to Birmingham in its own right. �34

billion. You were in favour of three lines. Between London and

Newcastle, to Manchester, and a week to Birmingham. Now you are

against it. You are like the rest. They were enhancements of existing

services. A new line between London and Newcastle, your manifesto said.

That is already a high-speed rail that could be enhanced. We do not

regard them the same. You became notorious for saying no self-

respecting businessman would employed a lady of child-bearing

age. Margaret Thatcher became an MP when she was of child-bearing age,

was that a mistake? I was saying the draconian legislation,

employment legislation, works against young women being employed

in the workplace. The point I was making that small businesses want

more young women. Let's make it easier for them by having more

liberal employment policies. When I made those comments in 2004, two

days later in the Sunday Times, a columnist ran a piece with a

headline saying Godfrey Bloom, you are right. It is something we have

been right about. We should liberalise employment legislation,

which we cannot while members of the EU. In few end up in coalition

Government, what job would take your fancy, minister for women?

would rather be Chancellor of the Exchequer. I could not make a worse

job than a comedian we have at the change in the new mood music. What

is your party have to do to win that trust? Firstly, I enjoyed you making

my constituents dance, Godfrey. Let's start off by not being

contemptuous of the people who voted for UKIP. They were not extremist. I

saw them going to the polling stations in Yorkshire. They were

middle-class, aspirin voters, and we have two treat them seriously.

you been contemptuous? I think the comments made about them were

contentious and wrong. That is a start. But we have also got to make

them feel that we care about the issues, that we care about the taxes

they have to pay and their job prospects. One of the things that

came back, it was shocking on the doorsteps in these elections, which

was a large number who were voting for UKIP did not think any of the

major parties thought about them and were in a different world. Things

like lower taxes, improved job prospects, as well as Europe are

important, not because it is UKIP. Can there be a European referendum

this side of the general election, whether a mandate referendum or an

in and out referendum? Can there be anything like that without Lib Dem

support which will not be forthcoming? It will be interesting

if you put the prospect of a mandate referendum, to your viewers, that is

a referendum that allows the country to approve or disapprove, you could

do that in the next six months. In terms of politics it would be very

interesting for the Liberals and the Labour Party to vote against giving

the public a say on this matter. The politics for them is very difficult.

If I was the Prime Minister, I would put it to the house of commons. I

would say what I was going to do and this gives people a say not just in

the final outcome, and it is up to the house of commons to make that

choice. If it was rejected by the other parties, and that would cause

a new dividing line, it would not be beneficial at all. If there was a

backbench Bill promoting the referendum, should the Tory

leadership support it? I think the Tory leadership should take it as a

policy, so the answer is obviously yes. But if the Lib Dems stopped

them? The Lib Dems are 160 one seventh of coalition MPs. Should

they have a veto on everything? I do not think so. Should they have the

right to say no to something which is so fundamental to the future of

the country? I do not think so. In any event when two major part of the

coalition are going to move apart as they seek a general election

coming, I do not think we can go into that period giving Nick Clegg a

veto on the policy. Why do you think the Prime Minister likes to surround

himself with so many older Etonians? I do not know, this is a blind spot.

It is not just about class, it is a problem of being out of touch. Boris

Johnson clearly gets by it. But it does open up a weakness and it

allows other people to accuse us of being out of touch. That is very

serious. We are not a nation of inverted snobs. Nobody really cares

where an individual comes from, but the concern is either they pay

attention? Do they understand the things that I face as an ordinary

person? The fact I am having trouble making ends meet and I cannot afford

the heating costs and food and so on. The public have got to believe

the government understands all those things and a fair chunk of them at

the moment do not believe that. you not believe with Jessye Norman,

a Tory MP, that it is because of this self commitment to public

service? It is probably because he did not go to Eton, we have had a

freeze frame. If we get David Davies back, we will do so. Listening to

that is the current chairman of the Conservative party, Grant Shapps.

Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Will you bring forward legislation before

the election, paving the way for a referendum on EU membership?

next election will be that referendum of whether people want to

renegotiate with the EU. If they want the referendum after that, then

voting conservative in 2015 is the surefire way of getting that.

answer is no, not even a mandate referendum this side of the

election? We did not win the last election which is where many of the

difficulties come from. To introduce legislation you have to have the

approval of both sides in the coalition. We will have to make the

election itself the referendum over whether or not you want to

renegotiate powers with Europe. If you do, vote Conservative. What if a

Conservative backbencher brought forward such a bill? With the

Conservative leadership support that sort of bill? You are asking me

whether we are likely to be able to introduce a government Bill. What if

it was a backbencher calling for a mandate referendum? Let's see what

happens. When you interview UKIP on things like this, you get a clear

answer. When I interview you and other major parties it is let's wait

and see. We are not thinking about the exact wording of a bill by a

backbencher, but in the real world things are not quite as black and

white. There are large areas of distinction and details which at the

moment a party like UKIP does not have to worry about. In the real

world you have to know about it. There is steam in your backbencher

is building up to this. Are you going to deny it? I know you are

part of building up that head of steam. This is what your colleagues

are telling me. I am talking about 304 Conservative MPs. What we want

to do is make the legislation available and bring it forward and

we will publish a bill which says this is what we will do, this is how

we will go and negotiate, this is the referendum Bill. We will publish

it. We want to have that referendum on a reformed Europe. We are

explaining exactly how to get there, if you agree with us on that. Vote

Conservative in 2015. That bill would not happen until after the

next election if you win it. We will publish that bill and we will

encourage others to support it. only got 25% of the vote on

Thursday. All the polls showed that the voters showed and think you are

out of touch, smug and arrogant. Why does the appointment of even more

old Etonians to Number ten help counter that impression? I do not

think people in this country hold it against people where they happen to

go to school. They are more interested in what they are offering

for the future. I do not hold it against anybody whether it is people

in our piety or Nigel Farage, who went to a public school. I did not,

I do not care. Why are there so many old Etonians? Downing Street is like

Lord snooty and his pals. It is not like that, I went to a state school.

You are not in Downing Street. does everybody so close to the Prime

Minister come from exactly the same background? Is that the only place

where there is merit in that country? I am in Downing Street

every day. They are not in and out. What matters to people is whether we

are helping to build a country for hard-working families, it matters if

we are controlling immigrating, cutting the deficit, those are the

things that matter. They are all things we are making progress on.

When the electorate are looking at who to vote for and two to support,

who best represents themselves, they will be looking to the party that

makes progress in those areas. Which is why it is important we have cut

deficit and immigration by a third. We have got new, private-sector

jobs. We are making progress. We hear the message from Thursday and

we want to make faster progress, but we are on the case. If you believe

in small government, lower taxes, grammar schools, eight have line on

immigration and law and order and lower fuel bills to high carbon

taxes, UKIP is now the natural party. No, we either party that lies

awake at night worrying about paying staff, that is the Conservative

party, we believe in that entrepreneurial society. Only 25%

voted for you. We have to get Thursday into some form of

perspective. Well done to UKIP, they did well and those elections. They

won less than 150 council seats. We control 18. Let's get this in

proportion. We still run 18 councils. On all these issues UKIP

are closer to your natural supporters than you are. When you

did this rebranding of the Tory party to soothe the attitudes of the

Metropolitan chattering classes, did it never occurred to you that you

were opening up a huge gap in the market for a populist party to

charge through? I do not see that you either have to appeal to only

this group or subsection of society, or only this group and you cannot do

more than that. In truth and it came out in the interview with Godfrey

Bloom, they have a set of policies which are not best thought out and

they now campaign against High Speed two. They wanted to build three

railways up and down the country. Their section on immigration on the

website says this policy is under review. That is what they would now

like to say is a major force in politics. Once you are under the

kind of proper scrutiny, then we can tease some of these things out. I do

not think we should just be appealing to one group or section in

society, we should appeal to everyone, everywhere in the UK.

you want David Cameron to become a proper Conservative again, you vote

UKIP. He is a proper Conservative in the best tradition of the party.

are campaigning on things you have never emphasised before. We said in

our last manifesto we would cut immigration and we have already cut

it by a third. We are making progress. We want to discipline our

public finances and we have cut the deficit by a third. We have got more

new businesses in this country than ever before. We are making progress

and we hear people and we are on it. It is not me you have to convince,

it is the voters, and they are not convinced. We have got David Davies

back. Somebody must have pulled the plug on you. Jessye Norman, one of

your colleagues, also an old Newtonian, is these Etonians have a

selfless commitment to public service. I am sure they do and he is

a very good example and I am a big fan of him. But the point is not

about the individuals. Frankly is not about the education of an

individual. The feeling out in the country is allowing the impression

to grow that this is a group of people who do not understand their

concerns. We have just had the funeral of Margaret Thatcher. She

never confined her cabinet to one type and one side of the party. She

had William Waldegrave and Chris Patten and so on. There is a feeling

out there that this is a narrow base and that is the problem. It is that

problem that is feeding the enthusiasm for UKIP. UKIP is about a

mindset, not a manifesto. If we do not solve our own problems, we will

They cannot be many cabinets with a former coalminer. We have plenty of

people who came up through the state school system and understand

what it is like to go into business. The country is interested in the

ideas and passion people have to improve this country for British

people. Conservatives are trying to do that. Thanks for being with us.

How did Labour get on? Not as well How did Labour get on? Not as well

as they might have hoped. They managed to pick up 291 council

seats. That is only winning back the same number of seats they lost

in 2009. That was when Gordon Brown was unpopular. It translated into a

game in two county councils, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.

With hopes of taking Lancashire and Staffordshire given upon. Respected

psephologistss Rallings and Thrasher said Labour should have

Thrasher said Labour should have won on the basis of recent local

won on the basis of recent local government by-election performances.

I am joined by a Labour's shadow Justice Secretary. Labour got 29%,

which Gordon Brown got in 2010. results in 2010 were full the

entire country. On Thursday that was four shire county council

elections, not as Scotland, only Anglesey in Wales and none in

London all major cities. In it takes that into account. We did a

remarkable things in government. We also lost 5 million voters. We lost

tens of thousands of members. We lost thousands of activists. We

lost councillors. The party was hollowed out. We have started the

process of building the party. We have new members, persuading them

to become activists. Persuading people to stand for councils in

shire elections where historically we have not done very well. All you

have done is unravel the losses you suffered in one of the worst nights

in Labour history. This is hardly progress. We have to remember. You

have to start building. We had no members in some areas. Forget

people standing in council elections, we recruited new members.

We lost MPs in 2010. We turned members and activists and persuaded

them to stand for council elections. We won councillors in seats we have

to win in 2015. We did well in Hastings and Harlow and Stevenage.

We did well in Carlisle and Crawley and Lincoln. These areas, Sherwood,

Amber Valley, which we will have to win back in 2015. You did well in

some places. Reasonably well. You still have problems. In huge parts

of the South, such as Essex, West Sussex, you did not even come

second, you came third. We have respect, in the year since these

councils were formed in the south, south-east and eastern, we never

ran these councils. I am saying he came third. Look how we did in

Harlow and Stevenage. We won seats in Dorset and Cornwall. Shire

council elections. In large parts of the South for a so-called One

nation party, you came third. out of eight seats in Hastings were

won by Labour. People recruited to the party since 2010 and persuaded

to stand. You did not do so well in the north. In 1981, you won

Lancashire, Staffordshire, Cumbria. That was under Michael Foot. You

did not win any of them. They are different boundaries. If the lesson

you are teaching me is that it is good to have superficial victories

in county council elections, that is not true, it does not mean we

will do well in the general election. We have to make sure we

have people understand we have new policies so that we can persuade

them to trust us in 2015. Look at where we needed to do well. We did

well in targets where we wanted to win. To have 291 games we are

pleased with. Ed Miliband said the centre is moving left and he is

work -- he is moving with it. If you look at the share of the vote,

it is moving right. It shows that under Ed Miliband you are out-of-

touch with public opinion. We have opinion polls say we are ten points

ahead. The UKIP vote was not just against Europe. There were no

elections in Scotland, Wales and London. I accept we must do better.

But the reason people voted for UKIP was because they think

politicians do not have the answer to the problems they face. They can

see that living standards are going down and wages are not rising as

fast. We have the challenge to persuade people who votes that we

can make a positive difference to their life. I think that Ed

Miliband has shown he can do that. Can you clarify the Labour

position? Am I right in thinking you will not offer a referendum on

Europe in the next election? would not say in advance. We do

offer a referendum between now and the next election? It is not my job.

I can say in made 2013 we will not promise a referendum in 2017.

not talking about 2017. I am asking if you will offer a referendum

between now and the general election. Above my pay grade. I can

tell you our policy. I cannot tell you what is in the manifesto. It is

foolish for Alex Salmond, in advance of a referendum on

independence in Scotland, to say he would do that. It would lead to

uncertainty. It is madness. Banks are joining us. -- thanks. Coming

up in 20 minutes, I will look at the week ahead with the political

panel. Until then, Sunday Politics Welcome. Coming up later in the

programme, and as the highest court in the land finds the Government

guilty of failing to meet air quality standards, we put their

record and Labour's in the dock. Joining us for the show, Siobhain

McDonagh, Labour MP for Mitcham and Morden and former member of the

London Regional Select Committee. And Bob Neill, for Chislehurst. How

do you account for the poor showing in the local elections? It is

disappointing. It is a regular occurrence for there to be setbacks

the governing party's mid-term. In this case, two parties in coalition

Government. We and the Liberal Democrats will suffer losses. It

could have been worse. We were starting from an almost historic

high a. Although we lost some ground, what is interesting is that

although Labour recovered, they did not get back to where they were.

The ease are the areas where you should do well, even mid-term. You

made losses in every county around London. It was not a job done well,

even regarding the previous results. You expect a setback at this time.

It is less than we have seen governing parties suffered. That is

during the premiership of Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair. In Essex,

we have four times as many councillors as any other party.

best Labour can do is come second in one of these councils. Not the

big breakthrough. We have not controlled most of these councils

in the 40 years they have existed. This is not traditional Labour

territory. In parliamentary seats we need to win to get near

government, in Crawley, in Stevenage, in Hastings, those

places where we want to make progress, we have. Tony Blair said

there were no no-go areas for Labour before he became Prime

Minister. These are areas where you must make ground if Ed Miliband has

chance becoming Prime Minister. some of these areas. In 1997, we

actually lost this set of elections, even though we had the majority in

parliament. Some of these we can expect to do well in and we did. In

others, it is more of a struggle. These elections are likely to be

remembered for one thing only. The rise of UKIP. Where is that journey

going to end? Victory on the borders of London are one thing,

can Nigel Farage's troops take the capital when London has its

elections next year? There is -- they are a long way

from being the biggest party on from being the biggest party on

London's borders. UKIP are now the second party in Buckinghamshire

where they gain 6. The Tories lost the same number. In Essex, they are

the joint second largest party. In Surrey they found themselves with

more seats than any other party. Hertfordshire was less successful.

They did not win a single seat. In They did not win a single seat. In

Kent, they saw the most impressive Kent, they saw the most impressive

result, winning 17 more than in the previous election. They will be the

official opposition. The UKIP vote has shown there is an element of

protest. Somewhat larger than I expected. UKIP are not the first

small party to win lots of votes. We have toppled one of the safest

Tory seats in the country. We are giving a scare to the Government.

In the 1980s, the SDP were often said to have made a breakthrough.

They won a quarter of the vote in the general election. The Green

Party came third with 15% of the vote. And BNP managed 1 million

votes in 2009 European poll. What can we expect in the local

elections in London? Is it is worth remembering that the outer boroughs

of London, particularly in the east, are not unlike the counties just

outside, they share the same postal designation. Havering and Bexley

are not as different from Essex and Kent as inner London boroughs might

be compared with hot for sure. I think we can learn something --

Hertfordshire. The fact that London will be immune from this rise of

UKIP is unlikely. For many voters this week, it made complete sense.

The phrase Basildon man has been synonymous in political terms with

the bellwether seat with the way the constituency voting is almost

always the way the country votes. I am joined by Councillor Kerry Smith,

newly elected UKIP councillor for Basildon. One of nine in New

councillors for UKIP in Essex. UKIP do not control a council. 20% of

the voting Kent. You are still a small party. We are on the march.

In your P's earlier, raising the issue of the London elections being

possibly the same day as the European elections, I think UKIP

has a chance of grabbing many councils. What about a council

itself? Will have to show people we can to a good job as a local

councillor. You have no experience? You have to learn to call before

you walk. If we do not demonstrate we can do a good job as a local

councillor, why would they elect us to run their council? Small parties

have their moments in the sun. You could argue this is it for UKIP.

You predict marching on London. Is it anything more than a protest

vote? Not at all. The protest vote is a one-off and that is it. 2004,

we won a few councillors on the same day as the European elections

and that was repeated in 2009. Lastly, we won several elections in

Essex. We wit macro a Conservative seat on the Billericay Town Council

-- we brick macro. It is the local things not being addressed. My

colleague who won a safe Conservative seat. People wanted

someone to speak up about over- national things, job security and

their future. It is not about Europe. In fairness it is the senior

politicians. I do not think anyone would describe me as a senior

politician. There is research that 60% of people who voted for UKIP say

they are not happy with the major parties. I got elected on several

issues in my division. There are people, regardless of how they vote,

saying save the area. I was elected partly to save the area.

Congratulation's as well. You do not want to call him a fruitcake or a

loony? I do not think calling names is the answer. Now people are in

elected posts they will be subject to the same degree of rigorous

scrutiny as all other politicians. It will become pretty clear that the

real issue that worries people is not just Europe, it is the cost of

living, the economy, like getting welfare right were generally I found

people thought the government was doing the wrong thing. -- the right

thing. But you have got a big gap in what you will do with the economy.

Our view is leaving the EU we can deregulate the economy and to make

this country a driving force for growth. Would you be in favour of a

mandate referendum on the EU in this parliament? We have to be a

realistic because there would not be a majority in the house of commons

to deliver the primary legislation. Because of the Liberal Democrats.

Many of your colleagues have said they would be in favour of having

that legislation put forward and put it to the Liberal Democrats to see

what happens. You have to be careful about promising things that cannot

be realistically delivered. We will be campaigning on the basis that at

the next general election there will be a choice between who runs the

government, David Cameron or Ed Miliband, and we will offer a

referendum on a renegotiated basis, so people will know what they are

voting about before they get the referendum. You should pull the

tales of the Lib Dems. They have often promised to give people a

referendum. You can get all their old leaflets and say to them, we are

going to have this vote on leaving the EU, you have promised dead, "

story. I am totally in agreement, the Lib Dems on a number of issues

have not kept their promises, but we have formed a government in the

national interest and we inherited an appalling financial situation

from Labour. The first task for the government is to sort out the

financial mess and then hopefully with a Conservative majority at the

general election we will go in for a referendum. Are you happy with

Labour's position on welfare? Welfare is a complex issue, it is a

mask for people's concern about the future, jobs and how we spend money.

Has Ed Miliband been clear about the policy on welfare? Our welfare

policy is evolving. Nobody is suggesting that as it is now it is

absolutely right. Every big project has to constantly be under review

and looked at. Is Ed Miliband an asset to the party? He is doing

fine, he has made progress. We would have liked to have done better, but

we are making progress. That does not sound like an endorsement to say

he is doing fine. Is he doing well enough at this stage bearing in mind

the recession we have had and where the economy is? I think he is doing

extraordinary -- extraordinarily well. He has bounced back incredibly

quickly after the last election. he could not win Lancashire or

Staffordshire, or Cumbria. Those are really major failures on Labour's

part. We got the largest share of the vote in parts of the country

which were not unnaturally our own. It was less than Michael foot caught

in the equivalent elections when he was leader of the party. Nigel

Farage has been on the airwaves saying he is going to contest the

seat in 2015. Are you worried it might be yours? I am very happy to

take on anyone in Bromley and Chislehurst. I would be straight to

people about the real issues that are confronting people in this

country, the issues of immigration and giving people a vote on a

renegotiated sensible alternative as to what we do to Europe. The last

time we had county council elections, you did not win any

seats. We have just won a council election with a real big result.

well are you going to do? Anything up to 50 to 100 UKIP borough

councillors in London. I think he is being optimistic. If you fix the

economy, you will be right? I was in Swanley yesterday and that is a very

similar demographic and the Conservatives won that seat, so it

does not automatically reach across. Time will tell. The days of the

pea-soupers air quality in the UK has been a concern. Now Britain's

air has been illegal. The worst offender is London. The case will be

referred to the European court for a final ruling which could result in a

swingeing fine for the UK government. Has enough been done to

clean up our act? # or I need is the air that I breathe. Dash-mac

nitrogen dioxide in our area, this polluter is behind premature deaths

of over 4000 Londoners every year and according to the Supreme Court

it is so bad, the government is breaking EU laws. It is Boris

Johnson's responsibility to lead the charge on the air quality. He is

doing a lot to address it, such as a huge package of measures like

refitting the buses, refitting buildings so that boiler emissions

go down. But opponents do not think he is doing enough and soon enough.

He has failed to take tough action, he has talked about a future,

ultra-low emission zone, but he is only going to see if it is feasible

for 2020, that is far too late. The first targets that were set were

approved by the previous government. But years on, London is still

waiting for it. Joining me is Alan Andrews. How

important was the ruling this week? It was hugely important in our first

step for cleaner air. For the first time we have a national court saying

that the government is breaking the law. It has two put enormous

pressure on the government to come forward with an ambitious plan to

tackle this problem because it is killing people. 4300 deaths in

London alone. Are you proud of the fact you have had to go through this

process and have these figures highlighted. The government has

failed? The government has spent a great deal of money on tackling this

issue. We should take it very seriously. But it is also worth

remembering that out of the 27 EU member states, 22 are on a broadly

similar position to the EU. We are meeting the targets both daily and

annually, but there is an issue about nitrogen oxide. That is the

thing that is killing people. put the British situation in context

with the rest of the EU in particular we have all got to

redouble our efforts on this. We have invested over �1 billion since

the election. Does that satisfy you? No, the coalition government have

not come forward with any new policies. Yes, this is an EU wide

problem, but London is the worst polluted in terms of nitrogen

dioxide, worst polluted capital city in the EU. The anticipation is that

London's compliance time is broadly on the same trajectory as Paris.

Boris Johnson has got a lot to do on that. That is putting it into

context. These standards were imposed under a Labour government,

but the first target was breached within weeks. Why was it not

addressed them? Even for me as a London MP he it has never been top

of my list or my understanding. I cannot believe it is the second

biggest public health issue and more people die prematurely from this

than from road traffic accidents, alcohol and obesity. Twice as many.

Should it be a much greater concern? Absolutely. Isn't a mile Burn high

street like the fourth worst place in Europe? It is worst in the

capital city in the EU. Putney high Street and Brixton Road in Lambeth

are three and four times the legal limits. Do you think it helped that

the Western extension zone was scrapped? It was extremely

unpopular. But you have also got to look at the raft of other impacts.

Part of the reason we do not sort this out is because we do not see it

physically and it tends to affect poor people in poorer parts of

London, so it is not the top of anybody's list. It is a bit of that,

but we got rid of the Western extension, but we have now got the

largest hybrid bus fleet in Europe. Put hefty fines be on the horizon?

Potentially. The last thing anything warns including as is for the UK

taxpayer to have two pay for fines. The process we are going through now

will not result in fines. This is the European Court deciding on legal

questions, namely is compliance by 2015 necessary? It would then come

back to the UK Supreme Court which could order the government to come

up with a new plan, but not fines. It is time for a look at the rest of

the political news in 60 seconds. Is London going Dutch? Trials in

Berkshire have been taking place for roundabouts like those seen in the

Netherlands that separate cyclists from other traffic. City Hall say

they could be seen in the capital by 2014. Councillor Brian Coleman, the

former Maher of Beynon, and boss of the London Fire Brigade, has

admitted a charge of common assault following an incident in Finchley

highroad. He was ordered to pay over �1000 in fines and costs. London's

airports are not running at full capacity, that is the verdict of the

London Assembly who found all of London's runways are underused with

about half at Luton and Stansted not be used at all. NHS bosses in London

published their preferred option for Southwest London Healthcare with St

Helier and Epsom Hospital is set to lose that accident and maternity

units. Let's pick up on that last issue, something close to your

constituents' hearts. Did you think St Helier's was off the hook?

was never off the hook, but the plans are even worse. They are going

to leave us with a walk in centre. 3600 babies were born there, this is

not a small place. Those people are now going to be in ambulances and

cars trying to get to St George 's in tooting or Croydon University. It

is a plan that is devastating. Health professionals quite often say

that adding a few minutes to your journey if you are going to a

specialist centre might improve your outcome. We are talking about

volumes. We are talking about 90,000 people who turned up. They admitted

25% of those people. These are not people making irrational decisions.

Is money being put into the other hospitals who are going to have to

absorb the tens of thousands of people who are no longer be going to

St Helier's. We have had a similar exercise in relation to what

happened in Bromley and Lewisham hospitals. There is a commitment to

investment and it is important we have that. And in Croydon hospital?

Your conservative colleague is very worried about how that hospital is

going to cope. I took that up with the Department in relation to the

princess was at Bromley. I defy anybody to go on to St George 's in

tooting and understand where you are going to take tens of thousands of

people and be able to treat them. it possible? You raised the point

which is we also have to bear in mind that in the planned around

Lewisham and South East London, the healthcare professionals were saying

strongly that you need these specialist units. Now it is back to

Nigel Evans a deputy speaker said allegations of rape and sexual

assault against him are untrue. He was released on bail after being

questioned by police. Nigel Evans, who was questioned

until last night by police, emerge from his home to make this

statement. Yesterday, I was interviewed concerning two

complaints, one of which dates back four years, made by two people well

known to each other. And who until yesterday I regarded as friends.

The complaints are completely untrue. I cannot understand why

they have been made, especially as I have continued to socialise with

one as recently as last week. was arrested in Lancashire

yesterday, questioned on suspicion of rape and sexual assault. The

alleged victims are said to be men in their twenties. He was released

on bail. Nigel Evans was elected as MP for Ribble Valley. He is popular

with fellow MPs and was elected as a deputy speaker in 2010. In the

same year, he came out as gay, saying he did not want to live a

lie. Philip Hammond said a decision must be made about his future. We

should treat people as innocent until they are proven guilty.

difficult to carry out a sensitive and high-profile role by being --

while being under scrutiny. He said he would not be standing down as a

deputy speaker and said it would be bits -- business as usual.

The chairman of the BBC Trust has rejected calls for a separate

inquiry into the activities of Stuart Hall at the BBC. Stuart Hall,

a former presenter and news reader, admitted indecently assaulting

girls in the 1960s up to the 1980s. Lord Patten said concerns about his

behaviour can be dealt with by an inquiry being carried out for the

BBC by a senior lawyer. Plainly, there was something about celebrity

culture in the Sixties up to the Eighties which meant that people

were prepared apparently to turn a blind eye to behaviour that was not

just eccentric but thoroughly unpleasant. So eerie and state

television claims a scientific research centre near Damascus has

been hit by an Israeli missile strike -- in Syria. We can speak to

our Middle East correspondent. What more do we know?

There is little hard information. What we can say is that there was

an enormous explosion close to Damascus. That is shown in footage

posted on the internet by activists. The question is what was hit. The

Syrian regime said it is what it calls a research institute.

Hezbollah's TV station, allied to Syria, said that three targets were

hit. Military barracks, some kind of arms depot, and air defence unit.

That would be surprising. Israel made it clear it did not want to

get embroiled in the Syrian conflict. It wants arms not handed

over all passed through Syria, coming from Iran. What it is saying

of the record is that it is going for rockets and missiles that

Iranians or Syrians want to pass to Hezbollah. We are in the dark as to

what was hit. There has been a film on has bowler TV showing target

areas, including a chicken farm and installations not showing clearly.

It is a major development and a dangerous one.

That is the news. There will be more on BBC One at 6:35pm.

Where next for the political parties? What does the Queen's

Speech have in store? These are questions for the week ahead. We

have had the criticism of David Davis about Old Etonians in Downing

Street. The Labour MP Graham Stringer said Labour's performance

was not good enough and said that too many shadow cabinet members

have never been in the real world. It is the same criticism. It is a

criticism that you have not had a proper job. The parties have this,

you come up from being a special adviser. You become an MP very

young and party leader very young. There is a different flavour around

Ed Miliband, there is a primrose Hill feel to him rather than the

shire. The ad explains the rise of UKIP. A cry against political

careerists. It is difficult to identify with someone who has lived

a narrow life and career. What is impressive about UKIP on Thursday

was not the overall share of vote, but the geographical spread. To

finish second in South Shields, which is so far removed from the

southern heartland of this Conservatives -- the Conservatives.

UKIP could emerge as the main centre-right party in the north.

Nigel Farage comes from the public school background. He was a

stockbroker. He went to a successful public school. He did

not go to Oxford or Cambridge. He did not enter the special adviser

role, become an MP. He would not like this because the UK

Independence Party wants us out of the European Union, but UKIP is

part of the European phenomenon. We are going through this horrendous

recession and it is taking a long time to recover. What happens when

you do not have proper economic growth? You have populist movements.

There is a comedian in Italy and the National Front in France. They

have different policy platforms. But they are populist and anti-

establishment. They will continue to do well as long as we struggle

to recover. UKIP are clearly taking more from the Conservatives than

anybody else. Lynton Crosby is going to be the Tory election

strategist. He said, get the barnacles of the boat. I think he

means ditched the policies that interfere with the Tory core

message. At the Queen's Speech I put it to you we will see on

immigration, welfare, and other things, the influence of UKIP.

is a reaction against the modernisation of the Conservative

party that took place in the first three years of David Cameron's

leadership. Number 10 is conscious they need heart lifting, positive

central messages to go with that stuff. In the Queen's Speech this

week, we will see that and also, for example, the Gay Marriage Bill,

which they are so keen on because of the political symbolism. They

know it does not matter a huge amount to most people, but it is a

corrective for those things on welfare, immigration and crime. The

other thing the Prime Minister needs to be wary of is that a UKIP

oriented campaign has been tried before. They should not swing too

far in the opposite direction. pick to a senior Tory who said the

danger of following the letter ran -- I spoke to a senior Tory, he

said that following UKIP, is like following the crocodile until it

has even you. The most interesting contribution was William Hague in

the Sunday Telegraph. He said there are no quick-fix solutions. He

tried it in 2001. It did not work. He wrote that. Do we see that on

the front page of the Sunday Telegraph? No, because the centre

right papers want to push that the Conservative Party needs to be like

UKIP. The Conservative Party say they will be careful of that and

they put it on page 2. We saw examples of where the answers are

less than clear. Grant Shapps could not tell me if they would back a

backbench bill for a mandate referendum. And Labour could not

tell me. And Nigel Farage cannot come up with an answer to the

budget shortfall. They do not have an immigration policy. People voted

for UKIP on an immigration policy that does not exist. As they get

scrutiny, more holes will appear. They are a culture war kind of

party. He will die out first, the Liberal Democrats or the boys?

bees. They are the same colour. I think they will come back. Their

strategy can only be to hold on. They need to fight 60 by-elections.

If they do that and hold on to most seats, they would have done well.

They are cockroaches as somebody famously said. They do well in

areas where they are established. It has to be a bunker strategy.

Very defensive. South Shiels was not representative. In the heart of

Sheffield, the constituency of Nick Clegg, they hung on to a council

seat. That intensity -- tenacity comes more natural to them than

Labour or the Conservatives. Liberal Democrats. Any kind of

support for a mandate red but -- mandate referendum. They will not

agree to it in this Parliament. Which is why the strange signal by

grave shops. Off the record, if a Conservative MP in the ballot for

the Private Member's Bill, if they were to come high in the ballot and

they were to say they would like a Bill introducing a referendum, the

Tory leadership might support that. The Liberal Democrats are saying no

to that. It is probably good for both parties because they are

looking down the lens at the election and need to differentiate

themselves. Godfrey Bloom said you kip will -- UKIP will win. As bad

as last week was, it will be nothing compared to next May. If

they win, you can imagine the pressure on David Cameron from the

right of his party to make concessions in their direction.

a big problem for Nick Clegg. UKIP win, the point about the

Conservatives party, it's panic or complacency. They will go into

panic mode if UKIP win at the European elections. It was said

today they will give a political earthquake. That is it. No daily