Browse content similar to 16/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Is this man a | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
racist thug with a taste for trouble or a voice of ordinary | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
people in the face of Islamic fundamentalism? We'll ask English | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
Defence League leader Tommy Robinson to come clean. The G8 | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
returns to the UK and the anti- capitalist protestors are gearing | :00:56. | :01:05. | |
up, we'll go head to head on the evils - and virtues - of capitalism. | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
And it is welfare reform's equivalent of the magic bullet. But | :01:08. | :01:17. | |
:01:18. | :01:29. | ||
could universal credit shoot the And with me, as always, the best | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
and the brightest political panel in the business - Helen Lewis, | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt - who will be tweeting throughout the | :01:35. | :01:45. | |
:01:45. | :01:57. | ||
I must be the supreme leader. Pressure is growing on David | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
Cameron this morning over Syria. After the US promised to increase | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
support for the rebels after their confirmation that President Assad | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
has used chemical weapons, crunch time is coming when it comes to | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
deciding whether to arm the opposition. If the Prime Minister | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
decides to go for it, he is going to have a tough time getting it | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
through Parliament, not least with his colleague, the Deputy Prime | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
Minister, Nick Clegg, who has been speaking to the BBC's Jeremy Vine | :02:19. | :02:29. | |
:02:29. | :02:34. | ||
this morning. He made it clear he has not signed up for arming the | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
rebels at all. David Cameron has been leading the way to arm the | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
rebels. The French have come onside and now the Americans have come | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
onside. I suggest to you the problem for the Prime Minister is | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
he does not have the House of Commons on side. I know a lot of | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
Tory MPs who are very hawkish bus- stop they were very tough on the | :02:58. | :03:08. | |
:03:08. | :03:08. | ||
war on terror in the past decade. - - very hawkish. If there is a | :03:08. | :03:14. | |
nervousness present amongst these MPs, you can imagine the feeling | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
amongst Lib Dem MPs and Labour MPs. The interview with Nick Clegg was | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
fascinating. On foreign policy there is usually agreement. To have | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
disagreement is very striking. follow events in the House of | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
Commons closely. Labour is against. They have not been definitive. I | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
spoke to Douglas Alexander. He is clear he does not want to do it. If | :03:40. | :03:49. | |
the Lib Dems do not want to do it, there is no majority. | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
Conservative MPs wrote to David Cameron saying they should have a | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
vote on it. They were saying they were quite wary about how the boat | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
would go. He said William Hague over to America to come back with a | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
multinational Agreement. What will the Americans make over this? | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
Privately complaining that Mr Obama is not focused enough on events in | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
the Middle East? He now says, you are probably right, we need to do | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
something. The Americans are divided. Bill Clinton gave a speech | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
in private last week. He was incredibly critical of Barack Obama. | :04:31. | :04:41. | |
:04:41. | :04:42. | ||
Over the Iraq War, Parliament was to -- was divided in 2003. I | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
interviewed David Cameron. He made a really interesting point. He said, | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
you critics of wanting to arm the rebels say, we cannot do that | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
because that would mean a arming extremists. If we do not take | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
action, the moderate forces in the opposition will not be strong and | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
we will strengthen the extremists. He does not have the party with him. | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
I wrote a report 10 days ago saying that George Young, the Chief Whip, | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
had gone to the Prime Minister and said, you have not got the numbers. | :05:15. | :05:21. | |
Julian Lewis led the campaign in the 1980s against CND. He has said, | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
do not go in there. If you do, chemical weapons will be and has a | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
pretty unpleasant groups. We will come back to this later in the | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
programme. -- will be in the hands. It has been a little over three | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
weeks since the slaughter of Drummer Lee Rigby, outside his | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
barracks in Woolwich, but the shock and anger continues to be felt and | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
relations between the Muslim and non-Muslim populations in some of | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
our cities are fragile. The English Defence League has been on the | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
march since Lee Rigby's death, launching a renewed campaign on the | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
streets that they say is focused only on radical Islam but which | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
often looks and sounds as if it is motivated by hostility to all | :05:57. | :06:03. | |
Muslims. This morning I spoke to the leader of the English Defence | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
League - a man who says his name is Tommy Robinson. That is coming up | :06:07. | :06:17. | |
:06:17. | :06:17. | ||
in a moment. But first, here's Adam Fleming on the rise of the EDL. The | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
English Defence League was founded in Luton in 2009. It was in | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
response to a protest by a local Islamist group against a homecoming | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
parade for the Royal Anglian Regiment, who were returning from a | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
tour of duty in Iraq. The movement spread rapidly. Frequently | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
attracting hundreds, even thousands, of supporters. Tommy Robinson, the | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
leader of the EDL, says the aim is to stop the spread of Islamic | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
extremism and Sharia law. They oppose the building of new mosques. | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
Critics say it is a violent, racist group. Many supporters are former | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
members of the BNP on National Front. Members have been pictured | :07:01. | :07:06. | |
making Nazi salutes. They say it is a peaceful protest movement. | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
Opponents 0.2 frequent violence at the rallies. There were clashes | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
with the police when supporters gathered in Woolwich after the | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
murder of Drummer Lee Rigby last month. You'll always find a big | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
police presence at their Damos, along with those opposed the EDL. | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
Six men were jailed for planning a terrorist attack at a rally in | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
Dewsbury last year. While the Government is clamping down on | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
Islamic extremism, David Cameron has said he will not tolerate the | :07:37. | :07:47. | |
:07:47. | :07:58. | ||
attitude of groups like EDL either. There is a serious threat against | :07:58. | :08:06. | |
me. Five, six men have been jailed for planning to kill us. I have to | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
wear a bullet-proof vest. People wish to kill me. What is the name | :08:12. | :08:19. | |
and your birth certificate? Stephen Yaxley. We could call you that.Yes. | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
We did find your birth certificate. You were born Stephen Christopher | :08:24. | :08:34. | |
:08:34. | :08:35. | ||
Yaxley in Luton. I was born with a father, who is not my dad. I was | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
adopted. The confusion over your names has a one advantage. It | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
concealed for a time that you had once been a member of the racist | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
BNP. I join them in 2004. When you are drowning, new clutch at straws. | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
My town has been drowning for many years. I was looking for a way out. | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
I was looking for somebody to be addressing the problem. When I | :09:01. | :09:11. | |
:09:11. | :09:13. | ||
joined for a year, I did not rejoin. I did not know that nit -- Nick | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
Griffin was the ex-leader of the National Front. When I knew what it | :09:17. | :09:27. | |
:09:27. | :09:29. | ||
was about, it was not for me. Serious issues started. I had | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
family security to hide. I have had armed police guard at my house was | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
dug I do not get the same protection that Islamic extremists | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
get. -- at my house. You can see daily threats against killing my | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
children and my wife. It has destroyed my family and my security. | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
You say you have never threatened violence against the British Muslim | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
community. The EDL only supports peaceful protest. This is what is | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
said on 3rd September, 2011, in London. Every single Muslim | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
watching this video on YouTube, on 7/7, you got away with killing and | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
maiming British citizens. You got away with it. Next time you think | :10:17. | :10:26. | |
:10:27. | :10:28. | ||
about it, you had better understand that we have built a network. We | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
will not tolerate it. The Islamic community will feel the full force | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
of the English Defence League if we see any of our citizens killed, | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
maimed or hurt on British soil ever again. The Islamic community will | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
feel the full force of the English Defence League. That is a pretty | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
explicit threat. It is not a threat, it is a promise. We will highlight | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
these issues. They are a pressure organisation. We put pressure on | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
the Government and Islamic community. I am seeing the summit | :10:59. | :11:07. | |
leaders coming out. They are saying the problems are per masks. You did | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
not say you would raise it with your MP, you said they will feel | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
the full force of the English defence leaked. You said the | :11:17. | :11:27. | |
Islamic community - everyone who is a Muslim. -- the English Defence | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
League. Just the same way, when we were introduced on here. You spoke | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
of the National Front. They are not in our organisation. Bespoke of | :11:36. | :11:46. | |
people being pictured doing not seen salutes. -- ate you spoke. | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
Islamism is spreading across the country. People did not think you | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
are talking about writing to your MP. They knew you were talking | :11:55. | :12:01. | |
about violence. It makes you into a self styled anti- Muslim vigilante | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
group. It does not at all.You are taking the law into your her own | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
hands. You said they will feel the full force of the English Defence | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
League if we see any of our citizens killed, maimed or heard. | :12:16. | :12:23. | |
Through the democratic process. You're taking your own explanation. | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
You have regularly taken the law into your own hands. How many | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
convictions for violent offences do you have? Three or four. I am a | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
working-class man from Luton. We should not be talking about | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
previous convictions, we should be talking about the truth. What has | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
got me on to this programme is not my past or history. My violent | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
offence was 10 years ago. threat was not. Before I had three | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
children and a family. I have done things I am not proud of. At the | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
same time, I have been to jail. I have experienced and lived through | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
Islamist ideology. I know that 800 prisoners are coming at a year | :13:09. | :13:16. | |
radicalise ING our system. It is not being tackled. I would not be | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
sitting here now. This is the EDL in which in London in the aftermath | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
of the appalling murder of Drummer Lee Rigby. This is from the | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
Guardian website. It explains some of the words on the screen. There | :13:30. | :13:40. | |
:13:40. | :13:41. | ||
are some flashing lights. Islam is not a religion of peace. It is | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
fascist and violent. We have had enough. We support our troops. This | :13:47. | :13:55. | |
is the end. Enough is enough. just add this up. You are a violent | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
man with a violent record. You are a former member of the BNP. You | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
have threatened Muslims with violence. I have not threatened | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
anyone with violence. demonstrations are menacing and | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
intimidating. They are full of men in balaclavas behaving like | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
football hooligans on the rampage. You are expecting us to believe the | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
EDL is no more menacing than the Girl Guides? Have we blent anything | :14:25. | :14:31. | |
up or plan to bomb anything? -- blown anything. You do not think | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
that is menacing or intimidating? There is an undercurrent of anger | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
across the country. You need to harness and channel the anger. They | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
want to show people, this is how we do it. In this country, whenever | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
someone criticises anything to do with Islam, you are called a racist. | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
You lose your job and be alienated and discriminated against. I have | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
not use that word of youth. EDL wants to ban the building of any | :15:01. | :15:09. | |
more mosques. -- youth. We should not be allowing Saudi Arabia to ban | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
them in this country. You do not add to the problem. We do not know | :15:13. | :15:23. | |
:15:23. | :15:28. | ||
Again narks was a Lincoln demonstration, not English Defence | :15:28. | :15:36. | |
League, that was another group. EDL members have been convicted of | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
planning to burn down mosques. English Defence League doesn't have | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
a membership. No, but they are self-styled EDL activists. Adam | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
Rogers and John Parkins have been convicted of encouraging others or | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
planning to do it themselves, to burn down mosques. That's a terrible | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
thing is it not? It is an awful thing, and they were not my members. | :16:01. | :16:08. | |
I always strongly speak out about it. I get threats every day to get | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
my kids decapitated and no-one is arrested. I'm not arguing with that | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
either, but what I'm saying is that it is not just that you don't want | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
the building of any more mosques, we have clear evidence, they shout burn | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
down mosques in demonstrations. Two of your members have been convicted | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
of encouraging people to burn down mosques. We don't have members.All | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
right, activists who say they are part of the EDL. People who follow | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
Islam are planning to blow up this country every month but you don't | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
blame that on the entire Muslim religion do you? With the English | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
Defence League we want to carpet blame the whole organisation and its | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
leadership for something that two morons have decided to do. You've | :16:56. | :17:02. | |
denied any connection with the arson attack on the mosque after the | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
Woolwich event. The truth is, we don't know, the you said it could be | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
Muslims themselves, but we've got plenty of evidence of English | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
Defence League supporters either threatening to plan or burn down | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
mosques. Some have been convicted, so you would be forgiven for putting | :17:19. | :17:25. | |
the EDL high up on a list of suspects wouldn't you in -- wouldn't | :17:25. | :17:31. | |
you? ? No. There was 22 firebombings in Luton, mosques attacked, smash | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
windows, council offices and yellow writing with EDL on every attack. | :17:36. | :17:42. | |
After 12 months of hearing Islamic leaders saying these are Islamic | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
attacks, who did they arrest? Muslims. You are claiming that the | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
EDL is not a racist or fascist group. It is not.Plenty of footage | :17:53. | :18:03. | |
:18:03. | :18:03. | ||
each people giving Nazi salutes. You choose to demonstrate in areas that | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
intimidate Muslims most. No we don't. You went to Woolwich.That | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
was on the evening of that. We didn't, we went to Downing Street. | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
Look at these people outside Downing Street. They are giving Nazi | :18:18. | :18:24. | |
salutes. See again #245rks is manipulated photo. I don't know... | :18:24. | :18:31. | |
We stuck the arm on his shoulder? ! Whenever anyone holds their hands up | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
like that... Come on, that is a fascist that's in yew salute by any | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
definition and they are at an EDL demonstration. We've got tonnes of | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
pictures of people giving Nazi salutes at your events. There are | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
serious problems within the Islamist community, and in our country that | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
people aren't addressing. David Cameron said we need to drive the | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
forces of Al-Qaeda out of Syria, but sorry David, you are not driving | :18:57. | :19:02. | |
them out of Britain. In towns like Luton we have to queue up with | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
people like these at the bank, our kids have to go to school with their | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
kids. I'm not a Nazi. I hate Nazis and fascism. You need, I suggest, to | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
speak to some of your supporters. One of my convictions you are | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
talking about is for assaulting one of these men who was giving a Nazi | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
salute. You claim to be the true voice of the working class in this | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
matter but the fact is ordinary people don't want anything to do | :19:28. | :19:34. | |
with you. The grieving parents of drummer Lee Rigby, the best of | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
Britain, that young man, have pleaded with you to stop | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
ex-employmenting his death. No they haven't. They didn't mention the | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
English Defence League. They had you in mind. Now you know what they had | :19:48. | :19:54. | |
in mind? So you now speak for Lee Rigby's family? They said keep calm | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
and show your respect in a peaceful manner. That is not what the English | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
Defence League did in Woolwich would. Two weeks after his death we | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
were organising 60 peaceful walks for Lee. Out of those walks 57 were | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
peaceful. The only time they weren't was when Muslims in Sheffield got | :20:12. | :20:19. | |
the flowers for Lee Rigby and ripped them to pieces in front of everyone | :20:19. | :20:26. | |
and it caused a confrontation. The leader of Unite against Fascism has | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
said that British forces are justified for attack. You call | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
yourself the English Defence League. We go. But the people really | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
defending this country putting their lives on the line day in and day out | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
don't want anything to do with you. The Help for Heroes charity doesn't | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
even want your money. I know, that's political correctness gone mad in | :20:47. | :20:55. | |
this country. I've got a friend... You are saying British squadies are | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
politically correct? It is ordinary British squadies. It is political | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
correctness gone mad in this country. When you hear the Rigby | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
family for everyone to keep calm and show their respect, don't use it as | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
an excuse to carry out attacks, and Help for Heroes don't want your | :21:14. | :21:18. | |
money, doesn't it give you a moment's pause for thought? What | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
gives me a moment's pause for thought is the fact it happened to | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
Lee Rigby. We made a video in 2010 highlighting who his kill Kerr was. | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
The fact that it is Father's Day without a dad. You have to say | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
alleged there. We've allowed our troops to be spat at in Luton in | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
front of their families and mothers and poppies to be burned and now our | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
soldiers to be beheaded tonne streets of England. Our politicians | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
are too weak. I'm not bound by political correctness so I will | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
openly say how it is, which is why we ask for the following. People are | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
following and it is spreading across the country. The English Defence | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
League isn't going to go anywhere. You are so sure you speak for so | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
many. Is I know that. Yet you won't stand for election, the English | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
Defence League won't put up candidates. I won't, no.I suggest | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
you are not interested in democratic politics. I don't want to be another | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
man putting on a suit and lying and bound by political correctness. | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
is the politics of the street you are interested in, the fascism and | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
communism throughout the ages. Nobody you ask will tell you this | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
country is going in the right direction. If we think it is more | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
dangerous, 60% more Muslims are being arrested every year for | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
terrorism. Have beautiful children and I'm terrified what it is going | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
to be like for them. I'm not a coward and I want change. I will | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
make sure that through peacefully protesting and highlighting these | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
issues, I want to feel safe and that my children have a prosperous | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
future. People in Luton haven't got that. I understand you are | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
frightened of the Muslim threat. termified. I think many people are | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
as frightened of it and of you and the English Defence League as you | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
are of Muslims. What is David Cameron doing about it? Nothing. | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
Robinson, thank you for being with us. It is Father's Day, dad.That | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
was the English Defence League. Well, listening to that was Farooq | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
Murad. He's the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, the | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
leading Muslim organisation in the UK. He joins us from Leicester. | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
Since the eshl the murder of drummer Lee Rigby, what has happened to | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
Muslim and non-Muslim relations in this country I? We are very | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
concerned that the rhetoric you've just heard from Tommy Robinson and | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
the English Defence League day in and day out on our streets is trying | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
to stir hatred in a divisive society. We've seen mosques being | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
society. We've seen mosques being burnt. We've seen mosques and | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
individuals being attacked, so I think that is really a moment where | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
we need to reflect and think and we need to isolate and not give further | :24:08. | :24:15. | |
oxygen to this kind of rhetoric of hatred, rhetoric based on fantasy | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
rather than reality. OK. Since Islamist terrorism in this country | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
now seems to be largely home-grown, are you and organisations like yours | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
really doing enough to root it out, combat it in your communities? | :24:31. | :24:38. | |
Indeed. We have been an organisation of 500 affiliates. Our message is | :24:38. | :24:45. | |
loud and clear, day in and day out from all the pulpits, there is no | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
justification or basis for extremist violence in this country or any | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
decent society or in our faith or scripture or practice or history. | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
Are you sure you know what all the Imams are telling the people in the | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
mosques? Are you sure you know the message that is being spread in all | :25:01. | :25:09. | |
of the mosques? Indeed. The Imams, the extremists that we have heard in | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
the media, on BBC studios and other studios, they are the extreme | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
tooipss who, there is no mosques available for them. They do not find | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
any pulpits. They are ex-included from the mosques and they were given | :25:23. | :25:29. | |
their oxygen from the media. This is our main complaint, that those | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
extremists who do not find places in our mosques, in our Imams who | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
counter them, they end up on the front pages of our tabloid and other | :25:39. | :25:45. | |
newspapers. All right. But isn't it fair to say that one of the reasons | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
why Islamist extremism thrives in corners of this country is because | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
too many British Muslims live in closed all-Muslim communities? Don't | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
we need more integration? I think we need to really... There is a problem | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
definitely. One attack is too many from our perspective or anyone's | :26:06. | :26:14. | |
perspective, and therefore we must investigate, we must look and find | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
evidence-based strategies how to counter it. I've heard that language | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
is an issue, that we are not integrating, but we've found most of | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
these attackers spoke perfectly good English. We've talked about faith | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
schools but we are hearing it is not faith schools but failed schools | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
that are causing the problem. Similarly sometimes conservatism, | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
traditional practice of Islam confused with extremism. What we | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
need to understand is extremism breeds and develops in the margins | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
and gaps of society. The Muslim Council of Britain has always argued | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
we must engage in civic society, in political systems and processes of | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
this country, and we must draw people in. OK. Can I finally - sorry | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
to interrupt. Can I get your quick reaction to the attacks of people in | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
a Birmingham mosque, which we read about this morning? It doesn't seem | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
in anyway to involve the EDL, but a Somali with a machete. What's your | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
reaction to what happened inside this mosque? Four people, including | :27:12. | :27:19. | |
a policeman, now in hospital. too early to comment. It seems like | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
another deranged person who seemed to have an internal conflict of some | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
sort. I read the news on the BBC be. I don't have the full details yet, | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
but it seems like some kind of but it seems like some kind of | :27:30. | :27:38. | |
domestic issue or local issue. Some individuals, a fight. We have crime, | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
knife attacks et cetera on the streets of Britain day in and day | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
out in many towns and cities. It is too early to jump to conclusions but | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
we must look into it. Mr Farooq Murad, there are for joining us from | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
Leicester Thank you. Now, the Government has been pretty | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
busy when it comes to welfare, introducing the benefit cap, | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
imposing tougher conditions on housing and incapacity benefits and | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
limiting the amount benefits rise to below inflation. But the really big | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
one - universal credit - is still to come, with launch planned for | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
October. This reform, the Government hope, is the real welfare game | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
changer, but is it on track, and will it work? Gyles Dilnot has been | :28:13. | :28:23. | |
:28:23. | :28:27. | ||
finding out. In the most ambitious change to welfare for 60 years, the | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
Government is attempting something new. To cover the vast complexity of | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
the lives and needs of those on benefits, both in and out of work, | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
with a simple, more flexible, cheaper to administer system which, | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
as they put it, makes work pay. The Government are taking income | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
support, income-based job-seeker's allowance, income-related Employment | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
and Support Allowance, housing benefit, child tax credits and | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
working tax credits and rolling them all into one - universal credit. It | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
gets paid monthly, just so it mimics salaried work. And you get less than | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
what you earn when you are in work. Politically most people liked the | :29:08. | :29:14. | |
idea. It is doing it so it really works where the debate starts. | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
Universal credit in some form rolls out nationally in October. Four | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
areas are piloting the change, covering an estimated 7,000 | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
claimants, but they are the least complicated cases. Single, | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
childless, new job-seeker's allowance claimants who claim no | :29:30. | :29:38. | |
other benefits. This is what modern private sector IT looks like, and IT | :29:38. | :29:48. | |
:29:48. | :30:03. | ||
The Department for work and pensions is aiming for 80% of | :30:03. | :30:13. | |
:30:13. | :30:14. | ||
claims to be online. If someone works, even for a short amount of | :30:14. | :30:18. | |
time, it is worth their while and they remain in the system. | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
government deliver IT change on this scale? I believe they can. The | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
benefit system is incredibly complicated. The major projects | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
Authority looked at universal credit in September of last year. | :30:33. | :30:40. | |
Back then, it was graded amber/ red. It means successful delivery of the | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
project is in doubt. Urgent action is needed. In May, the Government | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
responded. Significant progress has been made in the delivery of | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
universal credit. The pathfinder was successfully launched and we | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
are on course to stop the progressive national roll-out of | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
universal credit in October. -- to start. One MP is Warwick was that | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
he is about to publish a book on the chequered history of a large | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
government projects. -- is worried. The idea that the way to get this | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
right is to say everything is going fine and there are no problems, it | :31:17. | :31:25. | |
is all on time and on Churchill. That is not something I believe. -- | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
on schedules. One theme runs through the tortuous history of bad | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
software and that is the failure to confront reality. That is likely to | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
be the case at the moment. That would be catastrophic for many | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
currently on benefits. What do someone who cannot afford to feed | :31:42. | :31:52. | |
:31:52. | :31:54. | ||
their children look and sound like? I had never thought I would be in | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
this predicament but I am. There are others out there who are in | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
this situation but never dreamed of being in it. The thing is, how do | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
you get out of it? That is what I am struggling with. I do not want | :32:09. | :32:17. | |
to be on benefits. I want to work. The situation I am in now stops me. | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
Exactly the sort of person universal credit are designed to | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
help. Why does she not think being paid a lump sum monthly will work | :32:25. | :32:31. | |
for people like her? What do they have to fall back on? They do not | :32:31. | :32:36. | |
have an overdraft. I did have an overdraft and I lived off the | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
overdraft. It has got so bad that they cannot afford to pay it back. | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
You get this money. What happens if, for some reason or another, you | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
have to spend more than the budgeted for a week or so? People | :32:51. | :32:57. | |
will apply crisis loans. It will get worse. The Government insists | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
it will ensure no one falls through the cracks. Despite backing some of | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
the aims of universal credit, food banks are preparing to help more | :33:06. | :33:13. | |
people when changes come. Last year, in 2012, we looked after 153,000 | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
people whose primary reason for needing the three days of food we | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
give them in the food bank was that there was a problem, a mistake, a | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
change or to lay in benefit payments. We are dealing with a | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
significant change. We anticipate large numbers of extra people | :33:32. | :33:38. | |
coming to the banks as a consequence. That worries us. -- | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
food banks. The Government says it will be flexible with people who | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
might struggle to manage their money. Universal credit will roll | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
out of right, not early. It has not yet convinced everyone this | :33:52. | :33:57. | |
flagship policy is under control. Now, we would have liked to put | :33:58. | :33:59. | |
those concerns about the implementation and implications of | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
universal credit to a government minister but our invitation to | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
someone - anyone - responsible for the policy was rejected. We will | :34:07. | :34:16. | |
keep on asking. We are not easily embarrassed by rebuttals, and we | :34:16. | :34:20. | |
will return to the subject in the weeks and months ahead. Now, it is | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
G8 time again, and it is back in the United Kingdom, in Northern | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
Ireland in fact, where the authorities are bracing themselves | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
for aggro. This weekend, world leaders a Cabinet this luxurious | :34:28. | :34:36. | |
golf resort in County Fermanagh for the latest G8 summit. On the agenda | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
are trade, tax and transparency. There will also be discussions on | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
Syria and internet spying. Prime ministers and presidents were not | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
be the only ones descending on this peaceful part of Northern Ireland | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
because protesters plan to make themselves heard as well. Meetings | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
like the G8 and G20 have been accompanied by protests and | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
violence for a number of years. Already this week, police raided a | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
squat used by stock-take protesters in Central London. Police in | :35:06. | :35:15. | |
Northern Ireland up on alert. Anarchist groups are protesting | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
against capitalism itself. So, to debate all that, Owen Jones and | :35:19. | :35:29. | |
:35:29. | :35:31. | ||
Charlie Wolf go head to head on the I assume you stand shoulder to | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
shoulder with the protesters. What do you want to achieve? Some of the | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
main issues which are angering people are the fact we have 22,000 | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
children dying every single day of hunger, poverty. That is seven | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
times bigger than 9/11 every day. More people are dying of hunger can | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria combined. We have 14 trillion | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
dollars of tax which has been stashed away, hidden from the | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
taxman, at a time when third World countries are losing three times | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
more through tax avoidance than they are getting through eight. | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
Then the issues of climate change, the human rights record of Russia. | :36:11. | :36:18. | |
The key point is, what protesters are trying to do, in the way that | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
UK has put tax avoidance on the agenda, it is to hold leaders to | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
account and make sure we have a national and global debate. We are | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
holding to recount the eight most importing countries in the world. - | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
- holding to account. The problem with world hunger is generally | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
local governments. You can continue to throw money at the problem. | :36:42. | :36:48. | |
There is more than enough food in the world. I agree with you. In | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
Zimbabwe, it used to be Africa's breadbasket. It is not any more. | :36:53. | :36:59. | |
this an issue for the G8? I do have a problem with the protesters. You | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
can see by the way they handle themselves was a bit speaks volumes. | :37:03. | :37:10. | |
I do not like the word capitalism. I prefer the word, free market. | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
Capitalism was first used by William Thackeray make peace. | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
pressed taxpayers are having to bail out the banks. That is not the | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
fault of the people. The whole point about free markets is people | :37:24. | :37:31. | |
making free decisions. Free markets are a morally correct institution. | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
This is something that Margaret Thatcher talked about many years | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
ago. Let me put this to you Foster in terms of free-market capitalism, | :37:40. | :37:50. | |
:37:50. | :37:51. | ||
in 2008, when the linchpin of the capitalist system came crashing | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
down. The state came to the rescue. That is socialism - socialism for | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
the rich and capitalism for everyone else. A lot of people on | :38:00. | :38:08. | |
the right had agreed to let them fail. There are places for the | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
state. I do not disagree. One needs to look at how we got into the mess | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
in the first place was a free markets were not allowed to be free. | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
The whole genesis of the problem was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
Capitalism is in crisis. Why is there left so weak? Why are they | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
making no advances democratically? The number of protesters is | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
diminishing. It is a good point. You need anger at how things I hope | :38:37. | :38:44. | |
at how things can be. There is anger out there. The average worker | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
is going through the bigger squeeze in pay packets since records began. | :38:49. | :38:56. | |
What is lacking is hope. That is the need for a coherent alternative. | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
That will give people hope. Ordinary folk, living standards | :39:01. | :39:08. | |
being squeezed. They are paying a shed load of tax, helping to bail | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
out the banks. Shouldn't they be angry that companies like Google | :39:12. | :39:20. | |
and Amazon pay next to nothing? Governments right laws. They act to | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
the laws. They are paying a legal tax. They had aggressive lawyers | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
and accountants. Are they doing anything illegal? Of course not. | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
That makes it worse. Change the tax laws. It disturbs me when I listen | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
to David Cameron going on about the Irish and their corporate tax laws. | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
If he does not like it, blow up our tax rates. Do you think socialism | :39:46. | :39:56. | |
:39:56. | :39:58. | ||
would ever come up in a search engine? -- lower at tax rates. They | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
are still talking but not as bad as last week. It is coming up to | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
11:40am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
minutes: I'll be looking at the week ahead with our political panel. | :40:09. | :40:19. | |
:40:19. | :40:23. | ||
Until then, the Sunday Politics Hello. Welcome from us, where this | :40:23. | :40:28. | |
week we will be looking at London's long-term needs and weathered the | :40:28. | :40:34. | |
mayor has the 2020 Vision to meet them. Time to say hello to Jeremy | :40:34. | :40:40. | |
Corbyn and Mary MacLeod. Let's have a word first about the fact it | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
emerged this week that Thames Water has paid no corporation tax in the | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
last financial year, despite making �145 million in pre- tax profit. It | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
said it delayed payments due to investments in its infrastructure | :40:56. | :41:00. | |
amounting to �1 billion a year. They also received a �5 million | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
rebate from the Treasury in one year. They made �549 million profit | :41:06. | :41:14. | |
on a turnover of �1.8 billion. Grapple with those figures. | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
massive profit. They have a real cheek in avoiding corporation tax | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
and then asking us all to pay for the Thames tunnel to be built. I | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
think it is time that we thought about bringing water back into | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
public ownership so we can benefit from these vast profits. Not being | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
siphoned off to tax havens. We have to be careful. It is not just a | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
major headline on something they are doing which is illegal. It is | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
not about evading tax. They have had discussions with HMRC and said, | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
how can we do something which means we will pay this tax but it will be | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
delayed so we can use some of that money to get capital investment in | :41:57. | :42:03. | |
some of our projects? There are tough times economically. We want | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
to be able to invest in some of these capital projects. As long as | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
it has been discussed and agreed with the Treasury, and something | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
which is a project which is happening and developing and London | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
needs, I think it is a fair thing to do. I have had a �140 million | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
investment in sewage works alongside Twickenham rugby stadium. | :42:24. | :42:33. | |
Under needs those things. How else will they be paid for? -- London | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
needs. They need to be paid for, obviously. We're giving them the | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
subsidy and allowing them to continue to make large profits. I | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
think we need a bided discussion about water and sewage as well | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
because of the amount of paving over land, building places, means | :42:51. | :43:00. | |
there is a greater fled -- fled search. I'm not sure giving a | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
private company a monopoly of London's water is the way forward. | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
They have big profits. They have a big PR problem down the track as | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
well. Plans for the super Suker could lead to �25 on the average | :43:17. | :43:25. | |
person's or to bail. Detailed plans for that have still to come out. -- | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
water bill. We need to work very closely with Thames Water to | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
minimise the cost for Londoners. They are paying a lot already full | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
water and sewage. Some of those investment projects are things that, | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
just because they have been around for so long, from the Victorian era | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
and before, absolutely it needs investment. Why should Londoners | :43:48. | :43:53. | |
pay for every last penny? We asked Thames Water and they make this | :43:53. | :44:03. | |
:44:03. | :44:08. | ||
Let's move on. You could never accuse the Mayor of London of | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
underselling anything. This week he said he could create a period of | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
joy and plenty for the city to compare with the glories of ancient | :44:16. | :44:23. | |
Rome and ninth-century Baghdad. The Treasury -- only if the Treasury | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
was not standing in the way. The spending round is expected to | :44:28. | :44:38. | |
:44:38. | :44:47. | ||
impose hard financial choices on made promotional video. Today our | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
number one challenge is the amazing boom in the number of Londoners. We | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
are going to hit ten million people by 2030. Rather than announcing new | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
ideas, the document is a list of almost every transport and | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
infrastructure project that's currently being mooted by almost | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
anyone. It includes those with no money nor Government approval, like | :45:07. | :45:16. | |
Crossrail two. It has involved some not official mayoral policy like the | :45:16. | :45:22. | |
airport in the Thames estuary. But no statement of how our booming | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
population will need additional police and Fire Services, both of | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
which are currently being cut at City Hall. I do think that a world | :45:31. | :45:35. | |
city like London needs a world class fire and emergency service and world | :45:35. | :45:40. | |
class policing services. Cutting 10% of our fire stations and 10% of our | :45:40. | :45:44. | |
fire engines at the same time as all this growth is going on is not | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
really in anyone's interest. It is certainly not in the interests of | :45:47. | :45:54. | |
safety. As I said, for a trivial 7p a week cut in council tax it is no | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
price not worth paying. He has to go begging to the Treasury pretty much | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
every year to get his money. That is coming up now with the Spending | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
Review week after next, so this is Boris's pitch. The difficulty for | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
the Mayor is this. The bill for this document comes in at billions of | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
pounds. If the Government don't want to pay for it, it could mean this | :46:18. | :46:26. | |
vision will never become a reality. What the Mayor might be pitching | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
this grand ambitions to the Treasury, behind the scenes | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
Transport for London are expecting they fully expect a cut in | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
Government funding. It is just a question of how much. So does the | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
Mayor expect the contents of this document to become a reality? Some | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
of it is already happening, like the development work at King's Cross, | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
and Google are about to build their one million square foot UK base | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
right here. In the document there is talk about joining cringes cross | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
with St Pancras to make a mega , to serve the new lines of high speak | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
two and Crossrail two. But the problem is that for Crossrail two | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
there is absolutely no money. The Mayor's key argument is that money | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
invested in London is also good for the rest of the UK. The good example | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
would be for the building behind bus, where the supply chain involves | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
lots of businesses not in London but in other parts of the country. Those | :47:21. | :47:26. | |
businesses support jobs and they involve businesses making concrete | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
and refurbishing bits of old cast iron and creating new bits of ands | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
iron and other things too. There is a fine-grained wider than London | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
picture to London construction. is London really a unique case? Not | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
according to the developers here. The same will be true in investment | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
in other parts of the country too. There is a wider picture than just | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
the location where the development happens. That's true of our | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
developments in Manchester and Birmingham as well. And if the | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
Government do take the view there are bigger priorities for the the UK | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
than funding the Mayor's vision document, the tough question for | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
Boris Johnson is this. If he really thinks London's future depends on | :48:06. | :48:11. | |
the contents of his vision, will he take the political hit for raising | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
taxes and backing up fares even more rather than just taking the glory | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
for building lots of shiny new things? We asked the Mayor to join | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
us. He wasn't able to make it but his Chief of Staff is here. Welcome | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
to you. Hi.Described this week as widely seen as the power behind the | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
throne. I don't think so.Is it true? Of course it is not Frew. | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
Really? No. The Mayor runs City Hall. He clearly runs City Hall. | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
This is a good example of the Mayor's words, the Mayor's document. | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
That is clearly part of 2020. He is very much in control. So it is not | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
the case that you supply the facts and the script and he adds that | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
unique rhetorical flourish? course there's lots of people in | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
City Hall providing information, lots of special specialist advisers, | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
people having to input information into him but it is under his | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
direction and against the targets and directions that he has set. | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
Certainly timely in letting Londoners know that he is making the | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
case to Government for more investment. How are these | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
negotiations going ahead of this Spending Review? Give us an idea of | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
what you think the cuts are going be? It is accepted there are going | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
to be cuts. What percentage do we think? I can't answer that one. | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
Although negotiations are going on they are still at a pretty tense | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
stage in the negotiating process. They are putting their cases on the | :49:43. | :49:48. | |
table. Normally, as you know, spending departments will give you | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
an idea to plan. What idea are they giving you? I can't answer that one. | :49:53. | :49:58. | |
It is not the moment which we can declare our hand on this. The Mayor | :49:58. | :50:03. | |
is... I can tell thaw the Mayor is in regular contact with the | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
Treasury. He is meeting the Secretary of State and the | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
Chancellor. This is all ongoing work. Has he got a meeting with the | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
Chancellor between now and then? will certainly have another meeting | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
with him, yes. Some people say that they are not fans of each other and | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
they could be rivals one day for the Conservative leadership. On that | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
point, could it be said that Boris Johnson could be a liability to | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
London, in the sense that if the Chancellor's not going to look | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
fondly on him at the moment, and remember London has had a good | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
settlement over the last couple of years, London could suffer there, | :50:34. | :50:40. | |
because it is time for London to bear a bit of the burden? I'm sorry | :50:40. | :50:47. | |
the disappoint everybody in the press. The reality is that Boris | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
Johnson and George Osborne get on well. The Treasury fully recognises | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
the importance of London. They've always recognised the importance of | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
London to the UK economy. And that is why London has had the support, | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
because if it is good for London it is generally good for the whole of | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
the UK. We are not a city state. We are part of the UK. But they know | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
that too don't they? And it was the case in the run-up to the Olympics, | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
for understandable reasons, no-one wanted the Games to be a disaster, | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
there had to be more funding in London and London was cushioned a | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
little bit. Surely, as we know, as we do, there is ten billion pnds to | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
find here that London will bear some of the heaviest cuts here? I'm sure | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
London will bear some costs, they are bound to, but the Mayor's case | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
isn't about revenue expenditure. He recognises that that is going to be | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
reduced. Are it is about investment. And the importance of investment. | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
Not just to London but the whole of the UK economy. We've got a city | :51:46. | :51:52. | |
that's growing. We are eight. Four million. We are going to be nine | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
million early in 2020, ten million in 2030. We've got to have thousands | :51:57. | :52:04. | |
of homes, houses and jobs. Is it odd, is there a sense that a vision, | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
it is quite unusual coming from a Mayor five years in. Wouldn't we | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
have been better off having something like this a few years ago, | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
because then you can start making the arguments and putting | :52:16. | :52:18. | |
preparations in for your infrastructure projects, but that | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
didn't happen? The Mayor's first four years were about dealing with | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
other issues. But aren't we paying a price for that? No, we are not | :52:27. | :52:32. | |
paying a price for, that because these population numbers are much | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
higher than originally envies and. We only recently had the results of | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
the census. I can't tell you how many times I've said that London was | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
going to grow by the size of Leeds by 2020. And we have in the London | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
Plan, the Mayor's document which he published soon after he took power | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
in 2008. It started to show the kind of projections we've got today. It | :52:58. | :53:04. | |
was revised again and the London plan already said we need 32,000 | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
units of housing a year. This document is now upping it even | :53:07. | :53:13. | |
further. We were heading more towards 40-40,000. Great, you led us | :53:14. | :53:20. | |
to that. Let us take housing. 32-40,000 needed a year and we know | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
that in the last year your administration has started 14,000. | :53:25. | :53:32. | |
In one year. So there's a complete - in two years actually. Are 14,000 | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
and 8,000 this year. That is not fast enough, is it? You know you | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
won't be getting any more money. Excuse me for saying so but this is | :53:41. | :53:47. | |
the argument used against the Mayor two in 2008. Everyone was saying you | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
will not build 50,000 units of new housing accommodation using your | :53:51. | :54:00. | |
funds. He did it. The crucial thing about that was he got that through a | :54:00. | :54:05. | |
national affordability programme funded by Labour. The money under | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
the new Government is much reduced. You can't say with any confidence | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
you are going to repeat that number of housing. You are doing | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
completions. Let me do starts. He started 10,000 last year. 10,000 | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
starts which got off the ground. We've got no doubts he would have | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
achieved that 50,000. But the trouble is having achieved that | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
50,000 it won't be enough. We need more. It is not just social housing | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
that we are concerned about but housing across the board. The | :54:33. | :54:40. | |
Mayor's made that clear. Jeremy Corbyn, let me bring you in here. No | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
Government would have that much money to give to London at this | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
crucial stage when we know it has big needs over the next five or six | :54:48. | :54:54. | |
years. I wish this document had less of Boris's hyperly in it and more | :54:54. | :55:01. | |
about the reality of people 's lives in London, the benefit cap. The | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
unrented private rented sector and the appalling conditions that many | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
people live in, and the labour market problems of the future as | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
people are exported out of London. I want to see more council housing. I | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
want to see a commitment from the Mayor that he will use his influence | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
on the regulation of the Private rented sector and serious thought to | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
the quality of jobs that are there in the future. On the public | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
transport stuff, some of it is welcome and some of it I absolutely | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
agree with. We need much better public transport in London to cope | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
with the larger numbers of people. But we also need commitment about | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
fares and fare levels for the future. Mary MacLeod, what should he | :55:42. | :55:50. | |
be given? What do you want the Chancellor to do here? A 10% cut in | :55:50. | :55:57. | |
Transport for London's budget is not sensible. I do think London is a | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
city I was born in. To me it is the greatest city on earth. And I've | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
worked here my whole working life. I do think it is the, and I agree with | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
Eddie when he talks about it being if it benefits London it benefits | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
the rest of the country, because so many people travel into London to | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
work. It's the gateway to this country. My constituency in the west | :56:19. | :56:22. | |
being the gateway to London. I like this vision, because it really does | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
say something about what we expect of London in the future, what we can | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
believe in and hope for in this city. Too often we hear about the | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
issues and absolutely boar is will address some of the -- Boris will | :56:35. | :56:40. | |
address some of the issues. But it is really important for us to say, | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
let's think long term and see what investment is required and fight for | :56:44. | :56:48. | |
it. What is there on the stocks over the next few years to keep that pace | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
of investment? Well, there are issues. Whether you talk about | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
housing, I need schools in my patch, because with a population increasing | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
you need the services to support them. And I desperately need more | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
schools. We are covering that in the short term with classes and | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
supporting them that way. We do housing. I have a lot of house | :57:08. | :57:12. | |
building going on, so I agree we will get to the levels that Boris | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
has said he will do on house hog. But we need more than that and we | :57:17. | :57:24. | |
need the keep the focus on it. Also the plan involved the skills that | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
are required, how we get businesses to invest. You mentioned earlier, | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
the Mayor has aligned himself with the recommendations of a panel of | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
experts. He would allow or would want local authorities to be able to | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
build more housing and borrowing restrictions to be lifted. I agree | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
with him on that. That is welcome. I hope the Government supports it. But | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
the direction of travel of the Government is the opposite of trying | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
to promote the sale of council properties and at the same time | :57:54. | :58:00. | |
encourage the development of owner cock power station. Owner occupation | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
is totally unaffordable for the vast majority of Londoners because of | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
this completely skewed housing market we have, because of, how | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
shall we put it, funny money coming into London to buy up things and | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
that cascades through the market. You said there were other things | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
preoccupying his first term, but in terms of vision, how much can be | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
delivered in a short space of time, in the time he has left in the | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
mayoralty? I think this document is not just about this mayoralty but | :58:31. | :58:37. | |
about the future of London. I would suggest and Jeremy can be critical | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
of it, but by suggest whether you are a Labour or a Conservative | :58:41. | :58:47. | |
Mayor, you can twist this document one way or the other. Inevitably do | :58:47. | :58:53. | |
all Mayors become the same? It is about London's growth. London is | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
growing. It represents 23% of the country's GDP. If you look at the | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
South East around London it is another 15%. Half the country's | :59:02. | :59:05. | |
economy is driven from here. If we want to keep that going, you've got | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
to put the money into London to keep that transport going, keep the | :59:09. | :59:13. | |
housing going and keep the system going. Were you surprised when you | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
heard that the Mayor during this difficult time was going to be able | :59:16. | :59:22. | |
to find the time to write a book next year? Did you think damn it, | :59:22. | :59:28. | |
more work for you? No, and it will be a great book. Churchill wrote | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
soldier of his best works while fighting the Second World War. | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
Remind me, what happened to him in the subsequent election? Well... | :59:35. | :59:42. | |
That was in 1944, but, he still won the war. Maybe bore sis proving that | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
men can multitask. The voters decided. He still won the woor and | :59:46. | :59:51. | |
that is the point. Will you put in for a pay increase? We don't have | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
pay in whiches at City Hall. We are good local government officials. | :59:55. | :00:05. | |
:00:05. | :00:18. | ||
that note the miserly Sir Edward West is best when it comes to life | :00:18. | :00:23. | |
expectancy in the capital. Richmond has the lowest rates of early death | :00:23. | :00:29. | |
- second best in England. East London fared less well. Tower | :00:29. | :00:35. | |
Hamlets was the 7th worst in the nation. There was an amnesty for | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
residence illegally sub-letting council houses. The leader of | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
Kingston Borough Council has resigned after he was arrested for | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
possessing indecent images of children. He has been bailed until | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
August. MPs have criticised Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe over his | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
handling of the plebgate affair. The alleged altercation between | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
Andrew Mitchell and the police in Downing Street. He was accused of | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
failing to keep a record of conversations with the press and | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
failing to make any significant progress in the case. The | :01:11. | :01:21. | |
:01:21. | :01:21. | ||
investigation has cost 144 plasm pounds to date. -- �144,000. You | :01:21. | :01:27. | |
are halfway between Richmond and East London. Do you think there is | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
any sign of the health inequalities narrowing? Everything points in the | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
other direction. They're getting worse. Because of growing poverty | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
and difficulties over housing and environmental conditions many of | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
our children are being Port Appin. In my area, for example, which is | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
presented as being quite well off, the outcomes are very poor indeed. | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
On top of that there are proposals to close down large numbers of | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
hospital beds in Lewisham in the South quite Ealing in the West and, | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
in my own case, closing down a lot of beds and making redundancies in | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
my local hospital. It is very difficult to close this gap - | :02:13. | :02:19. | |
albeit you represent a relatively affluent part of West London. | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
have my issues in terms of TB, diabetes, childhood obesity. Issues | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
I am trying to buy back on. It is a role for us as MPs, we feel we are | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
not getting the health care service our residents need and we should be | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
fighting for it. That is something we do. We do not want the postcode | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
lottery. The reality on health is, there certainly is a real issue in | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
terms of poverty and smoking, what you are eating. All this affects | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
your health. We need to make sure we're tackling some of that. A 45 | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
second conversation from Andrew Mitchell and nine months later, at | :03:04. | :03:14. | |
:03:14. | :03:21. | ||
In a moment, we'll look ahead to the big stories that will dominate | :03:21. | :03:30. | |
politics next week with our political panel. Now for the news. | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
Good afternoon. David Cameron will hold talks in London today with | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
Vladimir Putin. The conflict in Syria is expected to dominate | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
discussions. The Russians have said the American claims of chemical | :03:47. | :03:53. | |
weapons used are fabricated. Here is a political correspondent. | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
Northern Ireland is getting ready. The G8 summit starts tomorrow. | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
World leaders start arriving later today. Syria is likely to be the | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
big talking point. Russia strongly opposes the idea of arming the | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
opposition, which is exactly what the United States, France and the | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
UK are now considering. The Prime Minister is doing his best to find | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
common ground with President Putin, ahead of their talks in Downing | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
Street this afternoon. The option we all want is an international | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
peace conference and an international agreement for a | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
transitional government in Syria, that the Syrian people can have | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
confidence in, and then elections and a new Syrian government. The | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
disagreement is how we get there. David Cameron says he has not | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
decided yet whether to armed Zairean rebels. His deputy says he | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
has not decided either. -- Syrian rebels. We have taken no decision | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
to provide lethal persistence. We do not think it is the right thing, | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
otherwise we would have decided to do it. We are providing significant | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
amounts of non- lethal assistance. The question now is whether David | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
Cameron could secure the support of a majority of MPs to send arms if | :05:11. | :05:19. | |
he concludes it is worthwhile. A man has been arrested after four | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
people, including a police officer, were stabbed in a mosque in | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
Birmingham late last night. What more can you tell us? This incident | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
happened about 11pm yesterday. Local people are saying there was a | :05:35. | :05:41. | |
dispute in the mosque behind me between two people. One man was | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
brandishing a knife. Two others went in to try to break up the | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
altercation and, as a result, three people ended up being stabbed. One | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
of the police officers was also stabbed. Important to stress that | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
all those injured are in hospital but their injuries and not said to | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
be life threatening. A 32-year-old man, described of Somali appearance, | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
is in custody. He is being questioned on suspicion of | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
attempted murder. It is not being treated as a suspected hate crime. | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
More in a press conference about an hour's time. Hundreds of Turkish | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
police officers have used tear-gas to clear demonstrators from a park | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
in central Istanbul where they have been protesting against the Prime | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
Minister. The move prompted unrest elsewhere in the City with some | :06:35. | :06:43. | |
people starting bonfires. There were protests in other parts of the | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
country. The bodies of two men have been recovered after emergency | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
crews were searching for climbers off Anglesey. The bodies were found | :06:53. | :07:03. | |
:07:03. | :07:03. | ||
in Holyhead. That is all the news for now. More news on BBC One at | :07:03. | :07:13. | |
:07:13. | :07:19. | ||
630 per pm. -- 6:35pm. Events in Syria are expected to escalate. Two | :07:19. | :07:28. | |
big questions for the week ahead. So, the G8. Talking about lots of | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
things from Syria to tax. Will it achieve anything? The summit will | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
be as consequential as all the other summits - that is to say, a | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
not very. Over the next few decades, it will become even less | :07:43. | :07:51. | |
significant because it does not include China. The dilemma is, of | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
the G8 does not include some of the most powerful countries in the | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
world. The specific issue they will be focusing on this time - tax | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
transparency and dealing with tax avoidance - is almost impossible to | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
deal with. It is in the interests of every country to do something | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
about this but in no individual countries' interests to be the | :08:15. | :08:22. | |
first mover. Then your tax system becomes uncompetitive and you may | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
lose business investment. I have to agree with that. You saw David | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
Cameron hailing this great victory. Developing countries can request | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
details of who owns stuff in British Crown dependencies of. That | :08:36. | :08:44. | |
is pretty pathetic. She is saying G8 has never been relevant. When it | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
was last chaired by us, it was relevant. It was relevant because | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
states could do things because they had money. You could have a bit | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
campaign and write off some debt. You have to be much more modest. | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
David Cameron was joking in an interview on Friday about, where | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
are all these communiques? He said it is like Carlsberg complaints | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
department. No one is man in that office. He is much more modest. | :09:13. | :09:21. | |
States are much more modest. He talked about Monaco as being a | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
sunny place for shady people. David Cameron wants to crack down on | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
secretive companies acting in secretive applications. There will | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
be a register in the UK. Will other G8 leaders agree? They will say it | :09:37. | :09:45. | |
is a fantastic idea and then do relatively little. On Twitter, it | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
has gone wild over the interview with Mr Robinson. What did he make | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
of it? I was expecting him to give you the mild hairdryer treatment. | :09:58. | :10:07. | |
They do not have any MPs. I thought the interview worked well. We heard | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
about his convictions and members. EDL says it has 35,000 members and | :10:13. | :10:20. | |
he does not have control over them. Should someone who is head of | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
something like the EDL be interviewed at all on national | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
television? That particular interview suggested that, yes, | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
there should be. It is not only a compelling spectacle, it reveals | :10:32. | :10:38. | |
new facts. I did not know about the prior BMP membership. There is a | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
strong case for giving them a platform. Three weeks ago, the | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
British soldier was murdered in the most stomach-churning fashion on a | :10:47. | :10:54. | |
London street. Since then, the big issue has been the EDL. I worried | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
that British elites generally finds it easier to talk about the EDL and | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
the Far Right than about terror. That does not reflect well on us. | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
In his own way, Mr Robinson is an accomplished performer. Yes. He | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
wiggles round. You got him on the fundamental points - were you a | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
member of the BNP? Yes. You talked about her you were going to go | :11:18. | :11:26. | |
after Islamic communities but he did actually say it. -- you are | :11:26. | :11:35. | |
going to go. Do we focus too much on the right? Should we be focusing | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
more on the EDL equivalent in the Islamic community? Of course you | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
should. You should question all people with massively controversial | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
views. What is really interesting over the last month is how Mr | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
Robinson has been comprehensively defeated, not by you, but by the | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
where the vast majority of the Islamic community has sort of been | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
hugely - completely - UN divisive. There was an EDL demonstration | :12:07. | :12:15. | |
outside a mosque. There has been a total condemnation of the Woolwich | :12:15. | :12:25. | |
:12:25. | :12:29. | ||
You three have always asked me, Andrew, how did the Liberal | :12:29. | :12:37. | |
Democrats... I am an expert! How do they operate? Where does the power | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
lie? I will exclusively reveal to you, this is the Lib Dem | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
organisational chart. Or, it is a drunken spider, dipped in ink, | :12:49. | :12:59. | |
allowed to walk around the pages. It reminds me of my GCSE coursework. | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
What that reveals his, no wonder people did not know who to take | :13:02. | :13:12. | |
complaints to. You could think that came from the be Give It A Try. | :13:12. | :13:22. | |
:13:22. | :13:24. | ||
at LEA thick of it. It is not quite as complicated as the BBC or | :13:24. | :13:33. | |
anagram. -- organogram. This party was not in power but now it is. | :13:33. | :13:41. | |
Clean up its flow chart. That is all. The usual lunchtime treats at | :13:41. | :13:44. |