Browse content similar to 26/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
Ed Balls has gone socialist and fiscal Conservative in one speech. | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
He promises to balance the biggest bit of the budget. And to bring back | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
the 50p top tax rate. Political masterstroke, or a return to old | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
Labour? If you go to work by public | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
transport, chances are the price of your ticket has just gone up - | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
again. We'll speak to Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin. He's | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
our Sunday Interview. And it's been another wet week | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
across much of the UK, but what's the outlook according to this man? | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
This morning.This morning. Held in recent years by party veterans like | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
Vince Cable and Simon Hughes. We thought it being quite a significant | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
week for the party, they might have something to say. And here they are. | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
Well that's their pictures. For various reasons, all three are now | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
unavailable. Malcolm Bruce, he's reckoned to be the outsider. His | :01:22. | :01:22. | |
office said he had a And with me - as always - the | :01:23. | :01:42. | |
political panel so fresh-faced, entertaining and downright popular | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
they make Justin Bieber look like a boring old has-been just desperate | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
to get your attention. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh, and | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
they'll be tweeting quicker than a yellow Lamborghini racing down Miami | :01:52. | :02:04. | |
Beach. Being political nerds, they have no idea what I'm talking about. | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
Ed Balls sprung a surprise on us all yesterday. We kinda thought Labour | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
would head for the election with a return to the 50p top rate of tax. | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
But we didn't think he'd do it now. He did! The polls say it's popular, | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
Labour activists now have a spring in their step. The Tories say it's a | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
return to the bad old days of the '70s, and bosses now think Labour is | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
anti-business. Here's the Shadow Chancellor speaking earlier this | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
morning. I was part of a Government which did very many things to open | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
up markets, to make the Bank of England independent, to work closely | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
with business, but the reality is we are in very difficult circumstances | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
and because if I'm honest you, George Osborne's failure in the last | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
few years, those difficult circumstances will last into the | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
next Parliament. Business people have said to me they want to get the | :02:46. | :02:55. | |
deficit down, of course they do. But to cut the top rate... It is foolish | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
and feeds resentment I want to do the opposite and say look, | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
pro-business, pro investment, pro market, but pro fairness. Let's get | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
this deficit down in a fairway and make the reforms to make our economy | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
work for the long term. What are the political implications of Labour now | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
in favour of a 50%, in practise 352% top rate of tax? One of the | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
political implications I don't think exist is that they'll win new | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
voters. I'm not sure many people out there would think, I would love to | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
vote for Ed Miliband but I'm not sure if he wants to tax rich people | :03:35. | :03:41. | |
enough. It will con Dale their existing vote but I don't think it | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
is the kind of, in the 1990s we talked about triangulation, moving | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
beyond your core vote, I don't think it is a policy like that. If there | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
has been a policy like that this year, this month, it has been the | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
Tories' move on minimum wage. I thought Labour would come back with | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
their own version, a centre-right policy, and instead they have done | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
this. I think we talk about the 35% strategy that Labour supposed will | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
have, I think it is a policy in that direction rather than the thing Tony | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
Blair or Gordon Brown would have done. Where he was not clear is on | :04:19. | :04:26. | |
how much it would raise. We know the sum in the grand scheme of things | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
isn't much, the bedroom tax was about sending a message. What we are | :04:33. | :04:40. | |
going to see is George Osborne and Ed Balls lock as they try to push | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
the other one into saying things that are unpopular. The Tories, | :04:44. | :04:52. | |
?150,000 a year, that's exactly where Ed Balls want them to be. All | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
three main parties have roughly the same plan, to run a current budget | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
surplus by the end of the next Parliament. George Osborne said ?12 | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
billion of welfare cuts, hasn't said how he is going to do it. Ed Balls | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
is giving an idea that he is going to restore this 50 persons rate. The | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
contribution of that will be deminimus. It is not much, but what | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
does it say about your values. Because it is that package, it is | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
cleverer than people think. Where the challenge is is the question | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
that Peter Mandelson posed at the last election, which is can the | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
Labour Party win a general election if it doesn't have business on its | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
side? That's the big challenge and that's the question looking | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
difficult for them this morning. Does it matter if Labour has | :05:43. | :05:48. | |
business on its side. I thought the most fascinating thing about this | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
announcement is it came from the guy mindful of business support, Ed | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
Balls. When in opposition and when a Minister and as a shadow as a | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
result, he's been far more conscious than Ed Miliband about the need not | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
to alienate the CB Bill. In the run-up of an election. This is a | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
measure of Ed Miliband's strength in the Labour Party, that his view of | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
things can prevail so easily over a guy who for the last 15 years has | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
taken a different view. Eight out of ten businesses according to the CBI | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
don't want us to leave business. Business is in a bit of a cleft | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
stick. Ed Miliband would like to see businesses squealing, and Ed Balls | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
is clearly not so comfortable on that one. There's a difference on | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
that. Mind you, they were squealing this morning from Davos. They | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
probably had hangovers as well. The other thing they would say is this | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
is not like Ed Balls thinks that 50p is the optimal rate forever, it what | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
go eventually. Isn't that what politicians said when income tax was | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
introduced? Yeah, in '97 Labour regarded 40 persons as the rate | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
where it would stay. It's been a bad week for the Lib | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
Dems. Again. Actually, it's been one of the worst weeks yet for Nick | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
Clegg and his party in recent memory, as they've gone from talking | :07:14. | :07:15. | |
confidently about their role in Government to facing a storm of | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
criticism over claims of inappropriate sexual behaviour by a | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
Lib Dem peer, Chris Rennard, and a Lib Dem MP, Mike Hancock. Here's | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
Giles with the story of the week. A challenge to Nick Clegg's authority | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
as he face as growing row over the Liberal Democrat... I want everyone | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
to be treated with respect by the Liberal Democrats. We are expecting | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
him to show moral leadership on our behalf. A good man has been publicly | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
destroyed by the media with the apparent support of Nick Clegg. I | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
would like Nick Clegg to show leadership and say, this has got to | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
stop. When Nick Clegg woke up on Monday morning he knew he was in | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
trouble, staring down the barrel of a stand justify with Lord Rennard | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
over allegations that the peer had inappropriately touched a number of | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
women. Chris Rennard thought he was cleared. Nick Clegg wanted more. I | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
said if he doesn't apologise, he should withdraw from the House of | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
Lords. If he does that today, what do you do then? I hope he doesn't. I | :08:22. | :08:30. | |
think no apology, no whip. 2014 was starting badly for the Liberal | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
Democrats. Chris Rennard refused to apologise, saying you can't say | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
sorry for something you haven't done. The and he was leaning towards | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
legal action. Butch us friends better defending Pym and publicly. | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
This is a good, decent man, who has been punished by the party, with the | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
leadership of the party that seems to be showing scant regard for due | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
process. But his accusers felt very differently. It is untenable for the | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
Lib Dems to have a credible voice on qualities and women's issues in the | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
future if Lord Rennard was allowed to be back on the Lib Dem benches in | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
the House of Lords. Therein lay the problem that exposed the weaknesses | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
of the Lib Dem leaders. The party's internal structures have all the | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
simplicity of a circuit diagram for a supercomputer, exposing the | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
complexity of who runs the Liberal Democrats? The simple question that | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
arose of that was can the leader of the Lib Dems remove a Lib Dem peer? | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
The simple answer is no. The Lib Dem whips in the Lords could do it but | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
if enough Lib Dem peers disagreed, they could overrule it. Some | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
long-stand ng friends of roar Rennard think he is either the | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
innocent victim of a media witch-hunt or at the least due | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
process has been ridden over rough shot by the leadership. Nobody ever | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
did spot Lord Rennard as he didn't turn up to the Lords, will citing | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
ill health. But issued a statement that ruled out an apology. He | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
refused to do so and refused to comply with the outcome of that | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
report, so there was no alternative but for the party to suspend his | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
membership today. On Wednesday Nick Clegg met Lib Dem peers, not for a | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
crunch decision, but to discuss the extraordinary prospect of legal | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
action against the party by the man long credited with building its | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
success. The situation was making the party look like a joke. One Tory | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
MP said to one of my colleagues this morning, the funny thing about the | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
Liberal Democrats, you managed to create a whole sex scandal without | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
any sex. And we can laugh at ourselves but actually it is rather | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
serious. And it got more serious, when an MP who had resigned the Lib | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
Dem whip last year was expanded from the party over a report into | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
allegations of serious and unwelcome sexual behaviour towards a | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
constituent. All of this leaves the Lib Dems desperately wishing these | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
sagas had been dealt with long ago and would now go away. Nick Clegg | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
ended the week still party leader. Lord Rennard, once one of their most | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
powerful players, ended the week, for now, no longer even in it. | :11:17. | :11:21. | |
Giles on the Lib Dems' disastrous week. Now, as you doubtless already | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
know, on Tuesday Lib Dem MPs will vote to choose a new deputy leader. | :11:25. | :11:32. | |
You didn't know that? You do now. The job of Nick Clegg's number two | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
is to speak with a genuine Lib Dem voice, untainted by the demands of | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
coalition Government. At this point in the show we had expected to speak | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
to all three candidates for the post, held in recent years by party | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
veterans like Vince Cable and Simon Hughes. We thought it being quite a | :11:46. | :11:53. | |
significant week for the party, they might have something to say. And | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
here they are. Well that's their pictures. For various reasons, all | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
three are now unavailable. Malcolm Bruce, he's reckoned to be the | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
outsider. His office said he had a "family commitment". Gordon | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
Birtwistle, the Burnley MP, was booked to appear but then told us, | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
"I was at an event last night with Lorely Burt" - she's one of the | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
candidates - "and she told me it was off". And Lorely Burt herself, seen | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
by many as the red hot favourite, told us: "Because of the Rennard | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
thing we don't want to put ourselves in a position where we have to | :12:27. | :12:34. | |
answer difficult questions." How refreshingly honest. Helen, how bad | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
politically is all this for the Lib Dems? What I think is the tragic | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
irony of the Lib Dems is they've been revealed as being too | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
democratic. In the same way that their party conference embarrassed | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
Nick Clegg by voting sings that he signed up to, and now everything has | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
to be run past various sub-committees first. Is it | :12:59. | :13:06. | |
democratic or chaotic? It is Byzantine. Mike Hancock was | :13:07. | :13:17. | |
voluntarily suspended, and this week he was properly suspended. It was | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
new information into the public domain that forced that. I'm already | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
hearing Labour and Conservative Party musing that if it is a long | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
Parliament, we will form a minority Government. It is a disaster for | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
them. Voters like parties that reflect and are interested this | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
their concerns. Parties that are self obsessed turn them off. The | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
third party, if they carry on like this, they'll be the fifth party in | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
the European elections, so they have got to draw a line under this. They | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
do that, if they do, through mediation. As I understand it, Chris | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
Rennard,s who has go devoted his entire life to the Liberal | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
Democrats, and previously the Liberal Party, is keen to draw a | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
line under this. He is up for mediation but he needs to know that | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
the women that he has clearly invaded their personal space, that | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
there wouldn't be a possible legal a action from them. The it is very | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
difficult to see how you could resolve that. Except he is | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
threatening through his friends, these famous friends, to spill all | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
the beans about all the party's sex secrets. Isn't the danger for the | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
Lib Dems, this haunts them through to the European elections, where | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
they'll get thumped in the European elections? They'll get destroyed in | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
the European elections, which keeps it salient as a story over the | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
summer. And it has implications for Nick Clegg's leadership. He's done a | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
good job until now, perhaps better than David Cameron, of exercising | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
authority over his party. He had a good conference in September. | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
Absolutely, and now the Lib Dems have looked like a party without a | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
leader or a leadership structure. Part of that is down to the chaotic | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
or Byzantine organisational structure of the party. Part of it | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
is Nick Clegg's failure to assert himself and impose himself over | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
events. Is it Byzantine or Byzantine. It is labyrinthine. You | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
don't get these words on the Today programme. The cost of living has | :15:21. | :15:31. | |
been back on the agenda this week as Labour and the Tories argue over | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
whether the value of money in your pocket is going up or down. Well | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
there's one cost which has been racing ahead of inflation and that's | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
the amount you have to pay to travel by train, by bus and by air. Rail | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
commuters have been hard hit over the last four years, with the cost | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
of the average season ticket going up by 18% since January 2010, while | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
wages have gone up by just 3.6% over the same period. It means some rail | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
users are paying high prices with commuters from Kent shelling out | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
more than ?5,000 per year from the beginning of this month just to get | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
to work in London. It doesn't compare well with our European | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
counterparts. In the UK the average rail user spends 14% of their | :16:16. | :16:23. | |
average income on trains. It is just 1.5% in Italy. Regulated fares like | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
season tickets went up 3.1% at the beginning of this month, and with | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
ministers keen to make passengers fought more of the bills, there are | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
more fare rises coming down the track. And Patrick McLoughlin joins | :16:37. | :16:49. | |
me now for the Sunday Interview. Welcome. You claim to be in the | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
party of hard-working people, so why is it that since you came to power | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
rail commuters have seen the cost of their average season ticket going up | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
in money terms by over 18% while their pay has gone up in money terms | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
by less than four? I would point out that this is the first year in ten | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
years that we have not had an above inflation increase on fares. The | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
Government accepts we have got to do as much as we can to help the | :17:23. | :17:31. | |
passengers. A big inflation increase since 2010. This is the first year | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
in ten years that it has not been above RPI, but we are also investing | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
huge amounts of money into the railways, building new trains for | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
the East Coast Main Line and the great Western. We are spending ?500 | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
million at Birmingham station, this is all increasing capacity, so we | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
are seeing investments. Over the next five years Network Rail will | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
invest over ?38 billion in the network structure. We also have an | :18:06. | :18:13. | |
expensive railway and it is ordinary people paying for it. A season | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
ticket from Woking in Surrey, commuter belt land in London, let's | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
look at the figures. This is a distance of over 25 miles, it cost | :18:24. | :18:30. | |
over ?3000 per year. We have picked similar distances to international | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
cities. The British commuter is being ripped | :18:38. | :18:51. | |
off. The British commuter is seeing record levels of investment in our | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
railways. The investment has to be paid for. We are investing huge | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
amounts of money and I don't know whether the figures you have got | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
here... I'm sure they are likewise, as you have managed to do... White | :19:08. | :19:22. | |
-- ten times more than the Italian equivalent. We have seen | :19:23. | :19:30. | |
transformational changes in our railway services and we need to | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
carry on investing. We were paying these prices even before you started | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
investing. We have always paid a lot more to commute in this country than | :19:41. | :19:50. | |
our European equivalents. I'm not quite sure I want to take on Italy | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
is a great example. You would if you were a commuter. You | :19:59. | :20:04. | |
is a great example. You would if you the other rates of taxation has to | :20:05. | :20:06. | |
be paid as well. Isn't it the case they are making profits out of these | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
figures and using them to subsidise cheaper fares back in their | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
homeland? The overall profit margin train companies make is 3%, a | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
reasonable amount, and we have seen a revolution as far as the railway | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
industry is concerned. a revolution as far as the railway | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
20 years we have seen passenger journeys going from 750 million to | :20:32. | :20:40. | |
1.5 billion. That is a massive revolution in rail. Let me look | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
1.5 billion. That is a massive spokesperson for the German | :20:46. | :20:45. | |
government, the Ministry of transport. | :20:46. | :20:59. | |
They are charging huge fares in Britain to take that money back to | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
subsidise fares in Germany. What do you say to that? We are seeing | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
British companies winning contracts in Germany. The National Express are | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
winning contracts to the railways. What about the ordinary commuter? | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
They are paying through the nose so German commuters can travel more | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
cheaply. We are still subsidising the railways in this country, but | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
overall we want to reduce the subsidy we are giving. We are still | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
seeing growth in our railways and I want to see more people using them. | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
Why do you increase rail fares at the higher RPI measure than the | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
lower CPI measurement? That is what has always been done, and we have | :21:50. | :21:55. | |
stopped. This is the first time in ten years that we have not raised | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
the rail figures above RPI. You still link fares to RPI. You use the | :22:02. | :22:09. | |
lower CPI figure when it suits you, to keep pension payments down for | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
example, but the higher one when it comes to increasing rail fares. We | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
are still putting a huge subsidy into the rail industry, there is | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
still a huge amount of money going from the taxpayer to support the | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
rail industry. I am not asking you about that, I am asking you why you | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
link the figures to the higher RPI vesture Mark if we are going to pay | :22:35. | :22:44. | |
for the levels of investment, so all the new trains being built at Newton | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
Aycliffe for the East Coast Main Line and the great Western, ?3.5 | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
billion of investment, new rolling stock coming online, then yes, we | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
have to pay for it, and it is a question of the taxpayer paying for | :22:59. | :23:11. | |
it all the -- or the passenger. You have capped parking fines until | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
the next election, rail commuters we have seen the cost of their ticket | :23:16. | :23:24. | |
has gone up by nearly 20%, you are the party of the drivers, not the | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
passengers, aren't you? We are trying to help everybody who | :23:31. | :23:46. | |
has been struggling. I think we are setting out long-term plans for our | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
railways, investing heavily in them and it is getting that balance | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
right. But you have done more for the driver than you have for the | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
user of public transport. I don't accept that. They are paying the | :24:00. | :24:08. | |
same petrol prices as 2011. This is the first time in ten years that | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
there has not been an RPI plus rise. We are investing record | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
amounts. Bus fares are also rising, 4.2% in real terms in 2010, at a | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
time when real take-home pay has been falling. This hits commuters | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
particularly workers who use buses on low incomes, another cost of | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
living squeeze. I was with Stagecoach in Manchester on Friday, | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
and I saw a bus company investing in new buses. Last week First ordered | :24:45. | :24:59. | |
new buses. Part of your hard-working families you are always on about, | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
they are the ones going to work early in the morning, and yet you | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
are making them pay more for their buses in real terms than they did | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
before. They would be happier if they could travel more cheaply. It | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
is about getting investment in services, it has to be paid for. Why | :25:20. | :25:28. | |
not run the old buses for five more years? Because then there is more | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
pollution in the atmosphere, modern buses have lower emissions, and we | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
are still giving huge support overall to the bus industry and that | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
is very important because I fully accept that the number of people, | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
yes, use the train but a lot of people use buses as well. High-speed | :25:48. | :25:56. | |
two, it has been delayed because 877 pages of key evidence from your | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
department were left on a computer memory stick, part of the submission | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
to environmental consultation. Your department's economic case is now | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
widely regarded as a joke, now you do this. Is your department fit for | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
purpose? Yes, and as far as what happened with the memory stick, it | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
is an acceptable and shouldn't have happened, and therefore we have | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
extended the time. There has been an extension in the time for people to | :26:30. | :26:40. | |
make representation, the bill for this goes through Parliament in a | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
different way to a normal bill. It is vital HS2 provides what we want. | :26:45. | :26:58. | |
What I am very pleased about is when the paving bill was passed by | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
Parliament just a few months ago, there was overwhelming support, and | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
I kept reading there was going to be 70 people voting against it, in the | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
end 30 people voted against it and there was a good majority in the | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
House of Commons. So can you give a guarantee that this legislation will | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
get onto the statute books? I will do all I can. I cannot tell you the | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
exact Parliamentary time scale. The bill will have started its progress | :27:30. | :27:37. | |
through the House of Commons by 2015, and it may well have | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
concluded. The new chairman of HS2 said he can bring the cost of the | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
line substantially under the budget, do you agree with that? The figure | :27:49. | :27:58. | |
is ?42 billion with a large contingency, and David Higgins, as | :27:59. | :28:05. | |
chairman of HS2, is looking at the whole cast and seeing if there are | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
ways in which it can be built faster. At the moment across London | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
we are building Crossrail, ?14.5 billion investment. There was a | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
report last week saying what an excellent job has been done. | :28:20. | :28:27. | |
Crossrail started under Labour. Actually it was Cecil Parkinson in | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
the 1990 party conference. You may get HS2 cheaper if you didn't pay | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
people so much, why is the nonexecutive chairman of HS2 on | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
?600,000? And the new chief executive on ?750,000. These are | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
very big projects and we need to attract the best people become so we | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
are going for the best engineers in the world to engineer this project. | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
It is a large salary, there is no question about it, but I'm rather | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
pleased that engineers rather than bankers can be seen to get big | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
rewards for delivering what will be very important pieces of national | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
infrastructure. I didn't have time to ask you about your passenger duty | :29:18. | :29:24. | |
so perhaps another time. We are about to speak to Nigel Mills and | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
all of these MPs on your side who are rebelling against the | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
Government, how would you handle them? We have got to listen to what | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
our colleagues are talking about and try to respond it. Would you take | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
them for a long walk off a short pier? I'm sure I would have many | :29:43. | :29:52. | |
conversations with them. An immigration bill to tack the | :29:53. | :30:00. | |
immigration into the UK. When limits on migration from Bulgaria and | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
Romania were lifted this year there were warnings of a large influx of | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
migrant workerses from the two new European countries. So far it's been | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
more of a dribble than a flood. Who can forget Labour MP Keith Vaz | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
greeting a handful of arrivals at Luton Airport. But it is early days | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
and it is one of the reasons the Government's introduced a new | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
Immigration Bill. The Prime Minister is facing rebellion from | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
backbenchers who want tougher action on immigration from abroad. Nigel | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
Mills would reimpose restrictions on how many Romanians and Bulgarians | :30:41. | :30:51. | |
can come here. Joining me is Nigel Mills, Conservative MP behind the | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
amendment and Labour MP Diane Abbott. Welcome. Nigel Mills, there | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
hasn't been an influx of Romanians and Bulgarians. Why do you want to | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
restore these, kick these transitional controls way forward to | :31:08. | :31:12. | |
2019? I don't think any of us were expecting a rush on January 1st, | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
Andrew. I think we were talking about a range of 250,000 to 350,000 | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
people over five years. That's obviously a large amount of people, | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
especially when you think net migration to the UK was well in | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
excess of the Government's target of tens of thousands last year. The | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
real concern is that it would be ever increasing our population, | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
attracting lots of low-skilled, low-wage people, which keeps our | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
people out of work and wages down. Did you accept that if you were to | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
accept this, it would be in breach of the Treaty of Rome, the founding | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
principle of the European Union? We were trying to keep the restrictions | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
that Bulgaria and Romania accepted for their first seven years of EU | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
membership, on the basis that when we signed the treaty we weren't | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
aware that we would have a huge and catastrophic recession we are still | :32:10. | :32:12. | |
recovering from. But you would be in breach of the law, correct? The UK | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
Parliament has a right to say we signed this deal before the terrible | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
recession, and we need a bit longer in our national interest. It is | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
worth noting that Bulgaria and Romania haven't met all their | :32:27. | :32:35. | |
accession requirements. The Bulgarian requirement passed a | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
law... So if they break the law it is alright for us to break the law? | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
Is we should be focusing on trying to get 2. 4 million of our own in | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
work, and 1 million people not in work... Let me bring in Diane | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
Abbott. Will you vote for this amendment and why? It is in breach | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
of the treaty. While I deplore MPs that try to cause trouble, these MPs | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
have been particularly mindless, because what they want to do | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
wouldn't be legal. However, it is a Tory internal brief, if I might say | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
so. Maybe you can cause trouble by voting for it. No, that would be | :33:15. | :33:21. | |
going too far. Underlying it is a real antagonism for David Cameron. | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
They have had to hold off on this bill until January. It was supposed | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
to be debating before Christmas. As we speak they've not cut a deal, so | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
it could be pretty grus om. Nigel Mills, what do you say to that I | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
think there is a recognition that there is a problem with the amount | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
of migration from EU countries that we need to tackle. We could try to | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
achieve an annual cap perhaps, longer limits on when countries get | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
free movement. I think the debate is moving in the right direction, but I | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
think those people who are trapped out of work and desperately looking | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
for work want something to be done now and not wait a few more years | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
while we have more assessments Andrews. People are worried about | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
the level of immigration. They I it is too high. That's the consensus in | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
the country. We spoke to to migration centre in Hackney and they | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
said they are struggling to cope with the number of people using | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
their services. These are people with problems with the law. In the | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
past years EU migrants put in more to the economy in taxation than they | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
take out in benefits. When it comes to free movement, which is agitating | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
Nige em, that horse has bolted. We signed a treaty. There is nothing | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
people like Nigel Mills can do, unless they want to rip their party | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
apart, God forbid. Will you go as far as to rip your party apart, | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
Nigel Mills? Are you going to take this all the way? Would you rather | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
see this bill go down than your amendment not be accepted? This is a | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
very important bill. I think we all want to see measures on the statute | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
book, so the last thing we want to see is this bill go down. We do need | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
to set out clearly that we have real concerns about the level of EU | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
migration and something needs to be done. Would you rather have the bill | :35:17. | :35:24. | |
without your amendment or no bill at all? I am hoping we can have the | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
bill with the amendment. I know that, but if you can't? Is that will | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
depend on what the Labour Party decide to do. They are talking | :35:35. | :35:41. | |
tougher on immigration but will they take action on it? Your party has | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
been talking tough on immigration but I will be surprised if an Ed | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
Miliband Labour Party would vote for egg in direct cameravention of the | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
Treaty of Rome. It would make no sense. Nigel Mills is wishing for | :35:55. | :36:01. | |
the impossible. If I was a Tory I would be wringing high hands. He | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
hasn't ruled out crashing the bill. That's incredible. Where will this | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
end, Nigel Mills? We'll end with a vote on Thursday. There's a lot of | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
amendments people can use to show their concern about migration. We | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
want limited and proportionate action, and that's what I am | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
proposing. I want to see the bill on the statute book, I want the | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
restrictions on people who shouldn't be here getting bank accounts and | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
driving licences. I don't want to crash this bill but there's more | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
measures we need in it. Nigel Mills thank you. You are going to be -- | :36:40. | :36:47. | |
popping up I think on the Sunday Politics East Midlands. Diane | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
Abbott, thank you as well. We're in for more heavy rain and | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
high winds across the UK today. You may remember that one UKIP | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
councillor - he's since been suspended - caused controversy last | :37:00. | :37:01. | |
weekend by blaming the recent flooding on the legalisation of gay | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
marriage. Why didn't I think of that? So who better than this man to | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
bring you the unofficial forecast. I'll be bringing you the late least | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
UKIP weather from your area. You're watching Sunday Politics. | :37:11. | :37:19. | |
Also coming up in just over 20 minutes, I'll be looking at the week | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
ahead with our political panel. Until then, the Sunday Politics | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
across the UK. Hello and welcome from us and | :37:26. | :37:37. | |
welcome straight away to my guests for the duration this week, Greg | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
Hands, and Jeremy Corbyn, Labour MP for Islington north. Later on we'll | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
be finding out why most but not all London councils are set to freeze | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
their council tax this year, ahead of local elections in the capital. | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
But first, to the propaganda war being waged between tube unions and | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
transport bosses ahead of two planned strikes next month, and the | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
opening of a new front, with TfL claiming it had persuaded a,000 or | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
so members of staff to act as so-called tube ambassadors, | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
attempting to keep transport moving during the planned 48-hour stop am | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
as. Them volunteer scabs, the RMT claimed. No, they were responding to | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
totally unnecessary strikes, said TfL. What do you make of this? I | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
strongly agree with TfL. These are totally unnecessary strikes. The | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
package being proposed to reform the tube, to create 24 hour service on | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
key tube lines, and funding that by end ticket offices, where at the | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
moment fewer than 3% of tube journeys are carried out using a | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
ticket bought from a ticket office, so why don't we bring ourselves up | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
to date, get a 24 hour tube like it hat had in New York City, and in | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
return end the practice of these tube offices, make sure there's | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
staff there, mare that the network is safe? I would volunteer to be an | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
ambassador if I had time to do the training. If they are watching we'll | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
pass on your details. Jeremy Corbyn? How about the Mayor meeting the tube | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
unions? He hasn't met them in six years and he hasn't interacted with | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
those elected to act for the staff he is responsible for. 1,000 jobs | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
being lost, and 100,000 people from day use ticket offices. When I came | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
out of a parliamentary debate, I went to Westminster station, a long | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
queue of people trying to get to the ticket office. Mostly non-English | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
speaking tourists. Finsbury Park station packed with people. | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
Heathrow, this is a ludicrous proposal. Why not get together with | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
the unions and talk about it. What about this strategy this week of | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
claiming that there are going to be these ambassadors, drawing on the | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
spirit, the idea from the Olympics, volunteers coming to the front | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
line... People volunteered for the Olympics because they wanteded to be | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
ambassadors for London. They did a fantastic job. Boris Johnson is | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
turning logic on its head to think people want to come in to break a | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
strike and be volunteers. You see these as strike breakers These are | :40:23. | :40:31. | |
trained volunteers. To stop the track... These are people who will | :40:32. | :40:36. | |
be trained. You support closure of the offices. You had your say, | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
Jeremy, let me have mine. My constituent has more tube users than | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
any other in the country. My tube users depend on that service. Due | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
agree with TfL looking for ambassadors who are going to come | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
front of house? I do. It should be applauded. To get the tube working | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
and stop this irresponsible four days of strike at a time when the | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
London economy is really starting to pick up, that's sabotage of the | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
network and asupport the robust response. 100,000 people were day | :41:13. | :41:20. | |
already cannot get help. It will be a 24 hour tube servicification, | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
which is what London needs at this time. This is about closure of | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
ticket offices and the closure of thousands of jobs. You know not many | :41:30. | :41:39. | |
people use the offices now. I go to Fulham Broadway twice a day. Stand | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
at a ticket office. My ticket office. Mind out why people use | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
ticket office - for information, tickets, Oyster Cards. There'll | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
still be the staff there. I suspect there is another agenda here for the | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
Mayor. Let's move on. London borough elections are in May and most | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
authorities are intending to freeze council tax, though not all. | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
This week Sunday Politics spoke to all of London's 33 local authorities | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
to ask what their plans were for council tax this year. Only 8 have | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
yet to announce their attention. The rest want to freeze council tax, | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
except Hammersmith and Barnet, which are going for a cut. According to | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
the Government that's evidence that local authorities are more than | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
capable of dealing with the cuts handed Dowd by Whitehall. We already | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
know the majority, particularly in London, of councils are going to be | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
freezing council tax or cutting it this year. Well run Councils can | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
deliver more for less. Here in Conservative-run Barnet, one of two | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
councils going for a cut, the local authority has made national | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
headlines for its so-called One Barnet programme, sometimes called | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
the largest outsourcing project in local government. Back office | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
functions are operated by a private company called Capita. On top of | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
that jobs like repaving the street are done by a private company. Half | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
owned by Capita and half by the council. The idea is that that new | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
company would sell services around the country to whoever wanted to buy | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
them. If money was made, Barnet would split the profits with Capita. | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
As of yet though, they haven't found any buyers. But the council's | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
already making money from this site at Millbrook Park. When it is | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
finished there'll be over 2,000 new homes here, a joint venture between | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
the council and two private companies. If this doesn't look like | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
council housing, it might be because it is not. It is just private | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
property developed by the council, sold the private buyers and the aim | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
is to make the local authority money. But elsewhere in the borough | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
the council's efforts to raise money are accused of causing real | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
distress. This is Jan set. Her husband died last year. We had | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
probably been together more than 30 years. We had been married more than | :44:03. | :44:09. | |
30 years, and in his early 60s he developed dementia. At first Barnet | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
Council paid for his daycare. I think the trips to the day centre | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
were very important both for him and for myself, because it gave him an | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
opportunity to mix with other people, and for me it was an | :44:23. | :44:29. | |
opportunity for respite, and to know he was safe. But after the council | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
introduced means testing Janet had to pay ?37 a day. I probably felt | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
the stress of it more, because I was the one dealing with the finances, | :44:40. | :44:47. | |
and with the bills coming in. Yes, I found it very worrying with. Another | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
issue to deal with in what was becoming quite a difficult situation | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
where you couldn't manage, it was out of control. An election debate | :44:59. | :45:15. | |
organised this week, the council cuts to services were high on the | :45:16. | :45:23. | |
agenda. I believe it is a gimmick, and it will be an expensive gimmick | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
for the residents of Barnet because it is unsustainable. You cannot cut | :45:29. | :45:33. | |
the council tax and maintain services. UKIP were not invited, | :45:34. | :45:41. | |
they still turned up. One politician who was invited and declined the | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
opportunity to make his case was the Conservative leader of the Council, | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
Richard Cornelius. Not there, but he is here, Richard | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
Cornelius, welcome to you. It was described as a gimmick. How much do | :45:58. | :46:05. | |
you plan to be in -- bring the council tax down? It is ?21 for an | :46:06. | :46:15. | |
average council taxpayer in a year, a small amount. It is a gesture. We | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
have been working hard, we have managed to cut the cost of running | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
the council and everybody should share in that. You accept it is a | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
gesture really. Yes, but it shows the direction of travel and our | :46:33. | :46:42. | |
aspirations. What about the case of the lady who suffered as a result of | :46:43. | :46:55. | |
introducing the means testing. It is fair that people who can contribute | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
to contribute, and that is what has happened in this case. Do you think | :47:01. | :47:09. | |
it has proved popular? Yes, there is a wide recognition that the welfare | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
system has to reform. It is unsustainable if it is unfair. There | :47:15. | :47:20. | |
is also the added complication he is suffering from dementia, it is a bit | :47:21. | :47:28. | |
of a shock for them, isn't it? It is well flagged up and she was treated | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
kindly, and her husband's care was provided by a charity. The | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
perception was that she could afford to pay and so she should, whereas | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
there are many unfortunate people who need help more. When you talk | :47:43. | :47:49. | |
about a gesture, it is important to provide a gesture such as this | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
because it is an election year? Do you need to persuade people about | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
your transformation and the outsourcing that you mean business? | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
We had to cut our spending by 33% and frankly unbelievable that we | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
could do it, but we did achieve that. You don't think that is fair? | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
In hindsight it was fair because we have managed to do it and most other | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
London boroughs have managed to do it so it chose it can be done, and | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
now we are faced with the situation where it is right to give something | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
back to the taxpayer to show that we are at heart a tax-cutting party. | :48:31. | :48:36. | |
Would you agree that it shows what is possible now? Know, it loses | :48:37. | :48:46. | |
democratic control, it is damaging for the poorest people in the | :48:47. | :48:56. | |
borough, and it is a model of local government that makes easyJet and | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
Ryanair look comfortable and efficient. This is a novel proposal | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
put forward by Barnet and it is not very popular in Barnet, and I can't | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
understand why you can't go to a public meeting to defend it. It | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
hasn't cost 80 million to do this, but that is providing services as | :49:19. | :49:25. | |
well. 80 million to sell it. That's not true, it is a contract, we are | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
paying somebody to do something that we were less able to do | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
efficiently. We have now outsourced the back-office function, it is a | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
no-brainer. Do you claim these councils are freezing their council | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
tax because they can? It is not too tough for them. I agree with | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
Richard. The other council cutting its council tax this year is mine. | :49:53. | :49:59. | |
The point is that you can cut council tax and deliver better | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
services. In Hammersmith and Fulham Council tax is down 20% in the last | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
seven years, in that time we have produced cleaner streets, we have | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
halved the debt of the council. On the wider principle, not about your | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
own constituency in this instance, because we haven't heard from the | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
film, from you, from Richard, one of the reasons the boroughs have no | :50:26. | :50:35. | |
choice is because of this bride, the freeze grant. It would be impossible | :50:36. | :50:42. | |
to reverse what happened under Labour, we recognise council tax is | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
something we need to keep down as a government, and well-run | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
Conservative councils delivering that show it is perfectly possible | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
to deliver better services with less tax taken. That is shown by Barnet, | :50:57. | :51:03. | |
Hammersmith and Fulham and others. My council has taken a lot of | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
services back in-house because it is cheaper, secondly what has been the | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
effect on these councils on housing waiting lists and adult social | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
care? It is the poorest people who suffer when this strategy is | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
followed. That's not fair. We have taken recycling back in-house. Are | :51:26. | :51:32. | |
you going to keep it after the election? Yes, we will take it in | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
and week aim to run an efficient service which will save money in the | :51:39. | :51:48. | |
next cycle. You haven't looked at what we have actually done. We have | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
outsourced some, but you are believing the hype that come from | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
those people at the meeting. They are residents of your borough, you | :51:59. | :52:05. | |
should be more respectful. Thank you. It has been five years since | :52:06. | :52:15. | |
the expenses scandal, but recently a Parliamentary committee found that | :52:16. | :52:19. | |
MPs were struggling to cope with the restrictions imposed as a result of | :52:20. | :52:26. | |
the scandal. In 2009 the UK was rocked by the expenses scandal. Over | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
half of MPs were ordered to repay the money to the taxpayer. Dodgy | :52:31. | :52:35. | |
dealings included overpaying for mortgages, having family members on | :52:36. | :52:40. | |
the payroll, and charging the taxpayer for an ornamental doghouse. | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
Three MPs resigned and five have been jailed. In the wake of the | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
scandal, the independent Parliamentary standards authority | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
was set up to sort out the mess, introducing regulation of expenses. | :52:55. | :53:02. | |
Now that same body has launched a consultation on the new expenses | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
system and this week MPs for a consultation on the new expenses | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
system and this week MPs gave their penalised by the new rules. Reasons | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
given included: Final decision on the issue rests | :53:13. | :53:33. | |
with the new regulator, IPSA, but with considerable public anger over | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
the 11% pay rise for MPs scheduled in 2015, any increase is likely to | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
cause a stir. Mark Littlewood is here from the think tank. Our London | :53:45. | :53:57. | |
MPs short-changed? No, this is special pleading, and I would think | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
that people who commute in from many miles away, my father commuted in a | :54:03. | :54:11. | |
three-hour return journey every day and he never complained about it. | :54:12. | :54:18. | |
Staff costs, office costs, those expenses are probably not taken | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
account of, are they? There is already London weighting for London | :54:23. | :54:31. | |
MPs and I think they can stuff their offices cheaply. There are loads of | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
young people who want their first step on the career ladder. I'm sure | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
your guests could confirm. Very bright people on modest salaries who | :54:42. | :54:48. | |
want to get in. Do you think that is right? It is perfectly acceptable, I | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
don't have a problem with that. The part I find shocking is that MPs | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
should be paid differently in London because of the peculiar and | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
difficult issues London MPs face. We cannot set salaries are lances based | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
on some social metric of each constituency and I would have | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
thought it is harder to say to a member of Parliament for Northern | :55:14. | :55:20. | |
Ireland than it is for, say, the Member of Parliament for London. | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
What do you think? They don't need hotels, they can commute, but we are | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
plagued with this idea that we can always reduce wages and costs, | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
bringing in unpaid interns, which ends up with the children of the | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
wealthy get on the career ladder because they can afford to work for | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
nothing. Also, please be aware of this, if you represent inner London | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
constituency, there is a massive amount of casework, social | :55:51. | :55:55. | |
tensions, housing problems. I am inundated with casework all the | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
time, my staff work incredibly hard doing it, but it does cost. If you | :56:00. | :56:13. | |
are rural MP in a rural constituency you could argue you need more staff | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
costs to cover multiple offices in different parts of a large rural | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
constituency. The point though is that the stuff budget for MPs in the | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
eight years I have been a member of Parliament has doubled. The London | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
part of that budget has quadrupled in that time. I don't think the | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
London MPs on the staff budget side are hard done by, in fact slightly | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
the opposite. Would you pay anyone here a bit more money? How you set | :56:44. | :56:50. | |
MPs' salaries is fiendishly difficult. They got in trouble for | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
it when they voted for it themselves, now we have the | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
independent authority. I don't know how we can try to make MPs' salaries | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
more performance related, but in general terms it strikes me with the | :57:06. | :57:12. | |
salary of the MP being around ?68,000 per annum, that does seem to | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
attract a lot of people to vacancies. If either of these were | :57:17. | :57:24. | |
to step down, there would be hundreds of applicants at this level | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
of salary. I don't think most people go into politics for the money. I am | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
against the pay rise for MPs and I hope it doesn't happen because MPs | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
have voted for a pay freeze for the rest of the sector and should have | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
won themselves. Now it is time for the rest of the political news in 60 | :57:46. | :57:53. | |
seconds. An extra 65 million journeys in London could be made | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
using three Crossrail stations annually by 2026, revised figures | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
show. The report looked at Tottenham Court Road, Bond Street and | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
Farringdon stations and found population growth has outstripped | :58:07. | :58:10. | |
the original estimate. The Supreme Court has rejected a legal bid by | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
objectors to the HS2 to force further scrutiny of the plans of the | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
Government. The challenge focused on whether the Government follow the | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
rules when it assessed environmental impact. A group of nine retired | :58:23. | :58:28. | |
constituents in Croydon South were met by two officers and a police car | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
when they tried to deliver a petition to their local MP. Richard | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
Ottaway called for police protection and only the leader of the group was | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
allowed into the constituency office. The London assembly report | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
showed crime in London has fallen significantly less than in the rest | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
of the country over the last decade, rates have fallen by 38% nationally | :58:49. | :58:57. | |
but just 27% in London. Greg, how can that be that police performance, | :58:58. | :59:01. | |
relatively to other parts of the country, isn't as good? Crying in | :59:02. | :59:08. | |
London is falling very rapidly, in fact crime in Hammersmith and Fulham | :59:09. | :59:11. | |
where I represent is at the lowest it has ever been. -- crime in | :59:12. | :59:23. | |
London. Figures were down 50% in the last decade. The fact remains crime | :59:24. | :59:29. | |
is falling in London, it is now at a record low in my area is that is | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
good news for local people. There is a population rise going on, and | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
obviously one has to recognise the good work done by local community | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
policing in trying to bring about a safer and more secure society. | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
Obviously nobody wants crime to rise but there are a lot of social | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
reasons why it is at the level it is in London and I think we need to | :59:55. | :59:58. | |
address issues of violent crime, address issues of numbers of young | :59:59. | :00:03. | |
people that don't have enough to do. The final word, not some of the | :00:04. | :00:09. | |
turmoil perhaps with afflicting the Metropolitan police over the last | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
few years affecting their effectiveness? No, I think the Met | :00:13. | :00:19. | |
has been very effective. I see them in my constituency being affected | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
and today I had a chat with the Mets about the record low in my | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
constituency, very pleased. Andrew, back to you. | :00:29. | :00:42. | |
UKIP leader Nigel Farage is never far away from controversy, but this | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
week he's been outdoing himself. He was hit over the head with a placard | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
by a protester in Kent, provoked outrage by saying women with | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
children are worth less to city firms, and said the ban on owning | :00:52. | :00:59. | |
handguns was 'crackers'. He also seemed less than sure of his party's | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
own policies when I interviewed him on the Daily Politics. And the story | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
that got everyone talking was the suggestion by a UKIP councillor that | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
flooding is linked to gay marriage. We'll talk about all of that in a | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
moment, but first, over to Nigel with the weather. Weather for all | :01:15. | :01:23. | |
areas of the British Isles but definitely not "Bongo Bongo Land." | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
You may have heard about a storm in a tea cup developed when you kip | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
councillor in Oxfordshire blamed the floods on the gay marriage Bill. The | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
old party is focusing on the view of UKIP members like him, even though | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
he had said a sell yuj of things before when a Tory councillor. How | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
quickly things change depending on when the blouse. There are | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
occasional barmy views by people of all persuasions. In Whitby a Labour | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
councillor claimed of fathered a child with an extra terrorist ral, | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
and said his real mother was a 9 foot green alien. And in Wales a | :02:10. | :02:17. | |
councillor thinking about heading off for the | :02:18. | :02:26. | |
slopes, there were flurries of embarrassment for the Tories after | :02:27. | :02:34. | |
Aidan Burly organised a Nazi skiing party in a resort. | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
Anyone heading to Brussels, perhaps on the gravy train, watch out for | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
hot air. In Britain temperatures are rising | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
ahead of the European elections in May. It could get stormy, so advise | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
light aircraft. Watch out for outbreaks of common sense, and no | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
chance of cyclonic fruit cakes. Back to you, Andrew, with the rest of the | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
Sunday Politics. Nick, if it was any other party that | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
had bon through the past week it would be in meltdown. And maybe it | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
is harming UKIP and maybe it isn't. What do you think? That just shows, | :03:17. | :03:22. | |
that great weather forecast, Prince Charles now has a rival to be an | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
excellent weather forecaster, as does the Duchess of Cornwall. It | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
shows why Nigel Farage is the fefr candidate to the European elections. | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
Our invitation to the British people to kick the establishment. The | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
establishment have spent five years that the European Parliament is a | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
waste of time, so who are you going to vote for? A Nigel Farage type of | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
person. What was important about your eadviceration of Nigel Farage | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
on Daily Politics is that when it came to the substance, they | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
flounder. But the point about that party is they may have the thinnest | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
set of policies, but people know what they stand for more than any | :04:05. | :04:11. | |
other parties - get out of Europe, a grammar school in every town. If any | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
other leading politician called for an end to the ban on handguns, at a | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
time when we've seen these appalling gun deaths in the United States, now | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
almost one every week in some terrible siege in a school. It would | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
be a crisis. It seems to wash off him. He's got congenital | :04:31. | :04:40. | |
foot-and-mouthitis. Straight into another wild nothing to do with why | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
people might vote UKIP. I don't think people are desperate to have | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
handgun licences back in this country. It is such an unusual | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
phenomenon, UKIP, that if this was a Tory or a Labour or a Lib Dem saying | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
it, we've seen the damage done to the Lib Dems on a much more serious | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
manner, we would say this is terminal. But maybe it adds to this | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
image that we are not like the other parties. I think that is it. We keep | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
waiting for these scandals and embarrassments to do damage to | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
UKIP's poll ratings, but it's not working. It is ultimately because if | :05:22. | :05:28. | |
you are an antiestablishment party, if you are an anti-system party, the | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
rules of the game which apply to the establishment parties don't apply to | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
you. And the more ramshackle and embarrassing you are, the more | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
authentic you seem. It what be take something for them not to finish | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
second in May. Do they spend the following 12 months sinking in the | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
poll snoos And George Osborne's strategy is fame everything as | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
Labour versus the Conservatives. The electorate will have their fun in | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
May. Maybe the Tories will be beat into third place but in thejection | :06:02. | :06:08. | |
is that -- but in the general election it is Labour versus the | :06:09. | :06:16. | |
Tories. The Conservative Party will run around, 46 letters to Graham | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
Brady, a leadership contest. That sort of scenario. UKIP, if it rules | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
well in the European elections, could cause big trouble for Mr | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
Cameron and Mr Clegg couldn't it? The big point about this, David | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
Cameron said this is not a political party but a pressure group. This is | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
the way to look at UKIP, and the way it is used by people in the right of | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
the party, who say we have to do this. I like the policy of painting | :06:47. | :06:53. | |
the trains in their old liveries. It would be like my old train set. I | :06:54. | :07:05. | |
like the bigger passports. Pre-GNER... And London and Midland. | :07:06. | :07:14. | |
I used to be a train spotter. Gordon Birtwhistle has been on the | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
phone. Good to know you are watching but pity you are not here. He wanted | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
to clarify he had constituency commitments to prevent him coming on | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
the show to talk about becoming leader of the party, but he didn't | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
dispute anything we said on the show. | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
Yesterday, Ed Balls said that housing investment will be a central | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
priority for the next Labour Government. It's a big issue, as the | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
lack of new homes pushes up the the price of owning or renting. Well, | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
tomorrow the Tories will announce what they say is the most ambitious | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
programme of affordable housebuilding for 20 years. The | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
Government sees housing as a really important part of the economy. | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
That's why we are announcing a ?23 billion package for 165,000 new | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
affordable homes. So individual builders, councils, housing | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
associations can bid for that money. Phase one, which we are halfway | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
through at the moment, we've built 170,000 houses. 99,000 already | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
coming out of the ground, so we've made real progress on that. So, | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
165,000 new, affordable homes. It is a lot. Let me add three more words. | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
Over three years. It is not such a lot. It is not, and Labour's | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
commitment is 200,000 homes a year and even that isn't enough. The | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
problem here is that the vest interest is with people who already | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
have homes. They have a vote in the system through the planning | :08:47. | :08:48. | |
regulations. In London there is a gap in the hedge through Richmond | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
Park through which you should be able to see St Paul's Cathedral. | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
That's why you cannot build homes where you want them. I don't think | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
we want to build homes over Richmond Park. He wasn't saying that. That's | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
dies an Tyne -- that's Byzantine. You've got to deal with supply, | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
which is why Labour is talking about 200,000 a year, and what George | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
Osborne has done with supply is helping with demand. We know the | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
Help to Buy Scheme is pretty dangerous, and Mark Carney is keen | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
to put the break on that. If you are to deal with supply, you have to do | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
radical things. Chris Huhne talked about on brownfield sites you can | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
tax people who are holding the land as if the development has taken | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
place. Then if you are really going to deal with it you have to talk | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
about the greenfield sites, and you have to deal with the garden cities | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
argument, which is too much for the Tories. All the parties seem to | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
agree building new houses is a political winner. I hope that they | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
are right. I'm not sure they are. The housing market is the example of | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
what economists call the insider in-outsider problem. People who are | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
already homeowners have no rational incentive to vote for more housing | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
stock. Even if you leave aside the Conservative arable objections, if | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
you are a homeowner there is an interest to stick with the planning | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
promise that we have. So then we are stuck between a rock and a hard | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
place. Not only are we growing at the moment but our population is | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
growing. I've seen projects that in quite quickly we will overtake | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
Germany and become the largest populated country in Europe. If | :10:40. | :10:42. | |
that's the case we've got to build homes. We have. If you look at Tower | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
Hamlets in London, the population is r ging higher than the number of | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
dwelling. Classically the theory's been young people are most affected | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
by this and they don't vote much. But when their parents have young | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
Johnny stuck at home at 37, that's an electoral issue. That's why the | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
garden cities project is interesting, because they finance | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
themselves. You zone it for development, it is worth ?2 million | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
an acre and then you can build on it. But who is going to want the | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
greenfield sites gone. And how quickly can we build garden cities | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
today? Some were started before the Town and Country Planning Act. I've | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
read stats about the way Chinese and Japanese are building houses and | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
they were slower than that. Here's a thought, sticking on the housing | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
theme. Ed Miliband came up with the energy freeze, a populist | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
interventionist move. Then the use it or lose it to land developers. | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
Then breaking up the banks. Now the 50p tax rate. How much would you put | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
on Labour coming up for rent controls? That's already a big | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
split. They are split already on it. They have. In London it is a popular | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
policy. It might not play well in the rest of the country. I would say | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
50-50 on that. I think Labour supporting rent controls like the | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
Tories having a go at welfare. The policy may be individually popular | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
but it sends an impression about the party which might be less attract | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
active. It confirms underlying suspicions that vote these guys into | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
power and suddenly they are tampering with the private economy. | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
The memories of the '70s when Governments tried and failed to do | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
that. It is riskier than a superficial reading of the polls | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
would suggest. One to watch? I think they are looking at it. That was the | :12:41. | :12:46. | |
key message of the Ed Balls speech on housing, is looking at supply and | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
how you get to that 200,000 figure a year, which is substantially more | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
than what Kris Hopkins is talking about. What we didn't get to talk | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
about, remember we had Michael Wilshaw on, the Chief Inspector of | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
Schools. We all consumed was Mr Gove's man, the Education | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
Secretary's man. Now according to the Sunday Times he is spitting | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
blood about the way Mr Gove and his office are speaking about him behind | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
the scenes. We've checked the quotes and he stands by them, so I think | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
we'll have to have the head of Ofsted back on the programme. If you | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
are watching, we're here. All that to the Lib Dems who didn't come on | :13:25. | :13:27. | |
today. That's all for today. Thanks to all | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
my guests. The Daily Politics is back on Monday at midday on BBC Two, | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
and I'll be here again next week. Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the | :13:35. | :13:36. | |
Sunday Politics. Britain, with 120,000 soldiers, | :13:37. | :14:14. | |
is now at war with Germany This would be the first | :14:15. | :14:22. | |
truly modern war. and resolve of entire populations | :14:23. | :14:32. | |
against each other. | :14:33. | :14:37. |