Browse content similar to 28/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks and welcome to The Sunday Politics, | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
live from the Conservative Conference in Birmingham. | :00:40. | :00:45. | |
There will be one less Conservative MP here after Mark Reckless defected | :00:46. | :00:47. | |
He joins us live from his constituency, where he has | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
It has not been the best of starts for the Prime Minister, as he | :00:53. | :01:00. | |
arrives in Birmingham for the last Tory conference before the election. | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
On top of the Reckless defection, a junior Tory minister has resigned | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
RAF jets have carried out their first mission over Iraq | :01:06. | :01:14. | |
And should we be targeting Syria, too? | :01:15. | :01:28. | |
In London, how the richest 1% are pulling further away, and why those | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
priced out are choosing to move away. | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
And joining me, three of the country's most loyal journalists, | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
who sadly have yet to resign or defect to our inferior rivals. | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh. | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
And, of course, they'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
And you too can get involved by using the hashtag #BBCSP. | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
At the current rate of Tory resignations, | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
Mr Cameron could be speaking to an empty hall when he makes his keynote | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
address to the Tory conference here in Birmingham tomorrow. | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
It's been a classic car crash of a start to the conference, with a UKIP | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
defection, a minister shamed into resignation by a sex scandal and | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Ed Miliband's memory lapses now look like a little local difficulty. | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
Here's what the Prime Minister had to say | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
These things are frustrating and frankly counter-productive and | :02:30. | :02:41. | |
rather senseless. If you want to have a European referendum, if you | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
want to get the deficit down, if you want to build a stronger Britain | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
that we can be proud of, there is only one option, which is to have a | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
Conservative government after the next election. | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
And Mark Reckless joins me now from Rochester. | :02:55. | :03:02. | |
Welcome to the programme. Why did you lie to all your Conservative | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
colleagues and mislead those who elected you? Well, I am keeping | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
faith with my constituents and keeping my promises to them. You | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
heard the Prime Minister saying that the Conservative led government was | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
dealing with the deficit and cutting immigration. The reality is, we have | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
increased the national debt by more in five years than even Labour | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
managed in 13, and immigration is back up to the levels we saw under | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
Labour. I believe in the promises I made in 2010, and I want to keep my | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
words to my electorate, not least to deal with the deficit, cut | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
immigration, reform the political system, to localise powers back to | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
the community, particularly over house-building. The government has | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
broken its word on all those things are. I want to keep my word to my | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
voters here, and that is why I have done what I have done, by moving to | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
UKIP. You have not kept your words to your Conservative constituency | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
chairman. You assured him 48 hours ago that you would not defect, and | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
you left his voice mail on the Conservative Party chairman's office | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
telephone, missing to come to Birmingham to campaign for the | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
Tories. This is your voice mail .. I have just picked up your e-mail .. | :04:19. | :04:39. | |
So, Friday night, telling Grant Shapps you are coming to Birmingham | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
to campaign for the Tories. The next day, you are joining UKIP. Why did | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
you are a? I sounded a bit more hesitant on that call than I usually | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
do, and I am not sure if that was the full conversation. But you | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
cannot discuss these things in advance, you have to make a | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
decision. I have decided the future of this country is better served by | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
UKIP then it is by the Conservative Party under David Cameron. I made a | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
lot of promises to my constituents, and I want to keep those promises. | :05:13. | :05:21. | |
That is why I am moving to UKIP so I can deliver the change this | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
country really needs. In May of this year, you said that Nigel Farage, | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
quote, poses the most serious threat to a Tory victory at the election. | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
So, you agree, voting UKIP means a Labour government? I think voting | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
UKIP means getting UKIP. While in the past a disproportionate number | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
of UKIP people were ex-Conservatives, now, they are | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
winning a lot more people, from all parties. People are so disillusioned | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
with the political class in Westminster, that they have not | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
voted often for a generation. Those are the people Nigel Farage is | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
inspiring, and frankly, he has also inspired me. What he has done in the | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
last 20 years, building his party, getting people from all walks of | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
life, sending up for ordinary people, I think deserves support. | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
That is a key reason why I am moving. UKIP are now the agents of | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
change. You said it poses them a serious threat to a Tory victory? My | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
ambition is not a Tory victory. We made all of these promises in 2 10 | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
as Conservatives, and they have been broken. We now hear from David | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
Cameron about English votes for English laws, supported by Nick | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
Clegg as well, but that is what we said in our manifesto in 2010, and | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
we have done absolutely nothing about it. It is not credible now to | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
pretend that you are going to do those things. They have omitted to | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
give every Scot ?1600 per year in definitely. If you want to stand up | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
for the English taxpayer, and really tackle the debt, then UKIP are the | :07:00. | :07:08. | |
party who will do that. But there is nothing principled about this, this | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
is just an attempt to save your skin. You said UKIP stopped you | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
winning in 2005 - UKIP did not stand in 2010, and you won. You are | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
frightened that UKIP would beat you in the next election, this is to | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
save your skin to me you think I am doing this because I am frightened, | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
you think this is the easy option, to abandon my position in | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
Parliament, but my principles on the line? On the contrary, you look at | :07:35. | :07:45. | |
MPs who have moved party before almost none of them have given their | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
voters to chance to have a say on what they have done. I am asking | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
permission from my voters, and I am moving to UKIP because I believe | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
many of the people in my constituency have been let down by a | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
Conservative led government, and that what UKIP is saying appeals to | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
decent, hard-working people, who want to see real change in our | :08:05. | :08:11. | |
country. If they do not agree, then they can vote in a by-election and | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
have their say on who they want to be their MP. I am being open and | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
honest, giving people a say. I am trying to do the right thing by my | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
constituents, and whatever the risk is to me personally, I think it is | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
the right thing to do. It is what MPs should be in politics to try and | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
do for the people they represent. Your defection, coming after Douglas | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
Carswell's, confirms the claim that UKIP is largely a depository for | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
disaffected right-wing Tories like yourself, isn't it? On the contrary, | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
the number of people I met in Doncaster yesterday was | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
extraordinary. When I first went to Conservative conferences 20 years | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
ago, there was some enthusiasm for politics, I remember Norman Tebbit | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
speaking against Maastricht, people fought they could change things | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
there was real politics. But I do not think you will see that at | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
Birmingham this week, it is PR people, lobbyists, corporate, few | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
ordinary members of. At Ancaster, people had saved up for months just | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
to get the rail ticket to Doncaster. People who believe in UKIP, who | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
believe in Nigel Farage, who believe in the team, as agents of change, | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
who can actually deal with a political class at Westminster which | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
has let able down. We want proper reform to the political system, | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
which David Cameron promises but does not deliver. Final question - | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
after the next election, the Prime Minister is going to be either David | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
Cameron or Ed Miliband, that is the choice, one or the other - who would | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
you prefer? Well, what we would prefer is to get the most UKIP | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
policies implemented. We want a first rate we want to deal with | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
immigration. I asked about who you wanted to be Prime Minister. We will | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
look at the circumstances. We need as many UKIP MPs as possible, to | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
restore trust in politics. If people vote UKIP, they will get UKIP. How | :10:20. | :10:31. | |
serious is this? I think it is very serious. It is the old Tory disease, | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
destroyed John Major, and it has been bubbling away again. It is | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
beginning to feel like the worst days of Labour in the early nineteen | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
eighties. It matters, because people care passionately. It is nothing | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
like Labour in the early 1980s, it is bad, but it is nothing like that. | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
There are these very strong strands. People like David Davis | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
writing a large piece in the Daily Mail attacking the leader on the | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
first day of the conference. That is the kind of thing that Labour used | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
to do. That is what David Davis does all the time! But this is authentic | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
in the sense that there is a real, genuine dispute about Europe. Some | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
of us were not around in the 19 0s, but I imagine it is pretty bad. | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
There is the short-term problem of the by-election they might lose the | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
media problem of the general election which they cannot win if | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
UKIP remain anywhere near their current level of support. But in | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
many ways the longer term question is the most pressing, which is, does | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
it make sense for the Conservative Party to remain one party, or would | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
it not be better for the hard-core of 20-30 intransigent Eurosceptics | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
to essentially join UKIP or form their own party? At least the | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
Conservatives would become more internally manageable. And probably | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
lose the next election. Probably, yes. That is what you are advising | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
them? If the reward is to have a coherent party in 15 years' time. It | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
is just as well you are a columnist, not a party strategist. I | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
was an anorak in the 1980s, who watched the Labour conference on the | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
TV. Were you wearing your anorak? Of course I was, that is how sad I am. | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
But once again the crisis from UKIP has forced the Prime Minister to | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
step in an even more Eurosceptic direction. Said on television what | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
he was trying not to say, which is that if he does not get his way in | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
the European negotiations, he will recommend to the British people that | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
we should go. He began by saying, as I have always said, and when they | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
say that, you know they are saying something new. He basically said, | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
Britain should not stay if it is not in Britain's interests. I think this | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
is big stakes for both the Tories and four UKIP. The Tories are able | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
to write off Clacton. Rochester is number 271 on the UKIP friendly | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
list. If the Tories win it, big moment for them. If UKIP lose it, | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
this strategy of various will be facing a bit of a setback. | :13:09. | :13:19. | |
To what extent are Mark Reckless's views shared by Conservative | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
The Sunday Politics commissioned an exclusive poll of Conservative | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
Pollsters ComRes spoke to over ,000 councillors - | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
that's almost an eighth of their council base - and Eleanor Garnier | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
There is not a single party conference at the seaside this year, | :13:35. | :13:48. | |
and Sunday Politics could not get through them all without a trip to | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
the coast. So here we are on the shore in Sussex. There are plenty of | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
Conservative councillors here, and Tory MPs as well, but one challenge | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
they all face is UKIP, who have got their sights on coastal towns. | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
Places like Worthing East and surer and, with high numbers of | :14:08. | :14:10. | |
pensioners, providing rich pickings for UKIP. In West Sussex, the Tories | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
run the county council, but UKIP are the official opposition, with ten | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
councillors. We cannot lose any more ground to UKIP. If we lose any more | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
ground, if you look at the way it has swung from us to them, it is | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
getting near to being the middle point, where we might start losing | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
seats which we have always regarded as safe seats. So, it has got to be | :14:35. | :14:43. | |
stemmed, it cannot go any further. Our exclusive survey looked at the | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
policy areas where the Conservatives are vulnerable to UKIP. If an EU | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
Referendum Bill is called tomorrow, 45% say they would vote to leave, | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
39% would stay in. Asked about immigration... | :14:59. | :15:10. | |
It was those issues, Europe and immigration, that Mark Reckless said | :15:11. | :15:18. | |
were the head of his decision. I promised to cut immigration while | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
treating people fairly and humanely. I cannot keep that promise as a | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
Conservative, I can keep it as UKIP. When asked if Conservative | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
councillors would like an electoral pact with UKIP in the run-up to the | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
general election, one third said they support the idea. 63% are | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
opposed and 7% don't know. Conservative councillors who left | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
the party to join UKIP say it wasn't easy. I left because basically the | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
Conservatives left me. I saw it as a difficult decision to change, but | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
what I was seeing with UKIP was freed. Me being able to speak for my | :16:02. | :16:10. | |
residents. Back to our survey and on climate change 49% said it was | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
happening, but that humans are not to blame. Our survey showed that 60% | :16:15. | :16:22. | |
think David Cameron was wrong to pursue legalising gay marriage, with | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
31% saying it was the right thing to do and 9% not sure. In Worthing | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
councillors said gay marriage was divisive. That has really been an | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
issue here, it might have damaged the party slightly, and I think in a | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
way by setting a rule like that it is a very religious thing and it is | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
almost trying to play God to make that decision. But some of the | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
party's toughest decisions have been over the economy. 56% in our survey | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
thought the spending cuts the Government has so far announced have | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
not gone far enough. 6% were not sure. They are prepared for | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
difficult decisions, but local activists say the party's voice must | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
be clearer. I think the message has to be more forceful, it has to be | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
specially targeted to the ex-Conservative voters who now vote | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
UKIP, especially in this area, the vast majority of UKIP people are | :17:32. | :17:34. | |
disillusioned Conservatives. The message has to be loud and strong, | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
come back and we are the party to give you what you want. With just | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
eight months until the general election, the pressure is on and | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
local Conservatives are searching for clues to help their party stem | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
the flow of defections. Joining me now is William Hague, the former | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
Foreign Secretary and the Leader of the House of Commons. | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
Tories like Mark Reckless are defecting to UKIP because they don't | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
trust the party leadership to deliver on Europe, do they? They | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
believe people like you and David Cameron will campaign to stay in and | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
they are right. They said before they defected that people should | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
vote Conservative to get a referendum on Europe, and that is | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
right of course. The only way to get a referendum is to do that and this | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
is the point, the people should decide. However a future government | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
decides it will campaign, it should be the people of the country who | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
decide. Can you say to our viewers this morning that is not enough | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
powers are repatriated back to Britain, you would want to come | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
out, can you say that? Our objective is to get those powers and stay in. | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
The answer to the question is I won't be deciding, David Cameron | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
won't be deciding, you the voters will be deciding. But you have to | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
give us your view. If you don't get enough powers back, would you vote | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
to come out and recommended? Our objective is to get those powers and | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
be able to stay in. You just get endless speculation years in | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
advance. I will decide at the time how I will vote. Surely that is the | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
rational position for everyone to take but I want a referendum to take | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
place. I understand that. As you pointed out to Mark Reckless just | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
now, unless there is a Conservative government, people won't have that | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
choice. Under a Labour government they will not get a choice at all. | :19:47. | :19:55. | |
Our survey of Tory councillors shows that almost 50% would vote to leave | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
the EU in a referendum. I think it showed, wasn't it 45, and 39%, but | :20:00. | :20:07. | |
again, I'm pretty sure they will decide at the time. They will want | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
to see what a future government achieves in a renegotiation before | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
they decide what to vote in a referendum. Unless David Cameron is | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
Prime Minister and there is a Conservative government, there will | :20:22. | :20:29. | |
not be a renegotiation. That is a point you have made four times. I | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
think they have got it. Your Cabinet colleague says we should not be | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
scared of quitting the EU, but you went native in the Foreign Office, | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
didn't you? You used to be a Eurosceptic, you are now the Foreign | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
Office line man. No, I don't think so! We brought back the first | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
reduced European budget ever in history. Even Margaret Thatcher .. | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
Leaving the EU scares you, doesn't it? Not much scares me after 26 | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
years in politics but we want to do the best thing for the country. | :21:05. | :21:12. | |
Where we scared when we got us out of liability for Eurozone bailouts? | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
We were not scared of anybody. People said we couldn't achieve | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
things but we negotiated these things. We can do that with a wider | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
negotiation in Europe. Mr Reckless says he cannot keep the Conservative | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
promise to tackle immigration. You have failed to keep your promise to | :21:35. | :21:48. | |
keep net immigration down. You promised to cut it below 100,00 , | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
you failed. It is over 200,000 people. We have cut it from 250 000 | :21:54. | :22:12. | |
in 2005, the last figures were 240,000. I think we can file that | :22:13. | :22:20. | |
under F four failed. It includes students, we want them in the | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
country. You knew that when you made the promise. But has it come down? | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
Yes, it has. Have we stopped the promise. But has it come down? | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
coming here because of our benefit system? Yes. None of that happened | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
under Labour. If Mark Reckless had his way, it would be more likely we | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
would have a Labour government. They have an open door policy on | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
immigration. You are not just losing MPs to UKIP, you are losing voters. | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
Polling by Michael Ashcroft shows that 20% of people who voted Tory in | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
2010 have abandoned youth and three quarters of them are voting UKIP | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
now. We will see in the general election. Politics is very fluid in | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
this country and we shouldn't deny that in any way but UKIP thought | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
they were going to win the by-election in Newark, we had a | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
thumping Conservative victory, and I think opinion polls are snapshots of | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
opinion now. They are not forecast of the general election and we will | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
be doing everything we can to get our message across. Today we are | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
announcing 3 million more apprenticeships in the next | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
Parliament. I think this is what people will be voting on, rather | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
than who has defected. Your activist base once parked with UKIP. Our | :23:46. | :23:53. | |
survey shows a third of Tory councillors would like a formal pact | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
with UKIP. Why not? It shows two thirds are against it. No, it shows | :24:00. | :24:08. | |
one third want it. I read the figures, it showed 67% don't want | :24:09. | :24:15. | |
it. We are not going to make a pact with other parties, and they don't | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
work in the British electoral system even if they were desirable. You are | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
sharing the Cabinet committee on English votes for English laws. Is | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
further devolution for Scotland conditional on progress towards | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
English devolution? No, the commitment to Scotland is | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
unconditional. We will meet the commitments to Scotland but we | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
believe, we the Conservatives believe, that in tandem with that we | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
have to resolve these questions about fairness to the rest of the UK | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
as well. That will depend on other parties or the general election | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
result. Are you committed to the Gordon Brown timetable? Yes, | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
absolutely. So you are committed to producing draft legislation by Burns | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
night, that is at the end of January. Will you produce proposals | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
for English votes on English laws by then? We will, but whether they are | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
agreed across the parties will depend on the other parties. There | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
was no sign that they were agreeable at the Labour conference. We will | :25:25. | :25:32. | |
produce our ideas on the same timetable as the timetable for | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
Scottish devolution. You will therefore bring forward proposals | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
for English votes for English laws by the end of January? Yes. And will | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
you attempt to get them on the statute book before the election? | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
The commitment in Scotland is to legislate after the election. You | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
will publish a bill beforehand? We will publish proposals beforehand. I | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
don't exclude doing something before the election, but the Scottish | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
timetable is to legislate for the further devolution after the general | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
election, whoever wins the election. Have you given thought as to what | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
English votes for English laws would mean? I have thought a lot of it | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
over 15 years. I am not going to prejudge what the outcome will be, | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
but it does mean in essence that when decisions are taken, decisions | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
that only affect England or only England and Wales, then only the MPs | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
from England and Wales should be making those decisions. You can | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
achieve that in many different ways. Is that it for English | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
devolution, is that what it amounts to? That is devolution to England if | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
you like, but within England there is a lot of other devolution going | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
on and we might well want to extend that further. We have given more | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
freedom to local authorities, there is a lot of scope to do more of | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
that, but that in itself is not the answer to the problem of what | :27:07. | :27:15. | |
happens at Westminster. You haven't just given Scotland more devolution | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
or planned to do it, you have also enshrined the Barnett formula and | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
that seems to be in perpetuity. It is widely regarded as being unfair | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
to Wales and many of the poorer English regions. Why do you | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
perpetuate it? It will become less relevant overtime if more | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
tax-raising powers... It goes all the way back to the 1970s, we made a | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
commitment on that, we will keep our commitments to Scotland as more -- | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
but as more tax-raising powers devolved, the Barnett formula is | :27:52. | :27:59. | |
less significant. If you transfer ?5 billion of tax-raising powers to | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
Scotland, 5 billion comes off the Barnett formula? It will be a lot | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
more complicated than that, but yes, as their own decisions about | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
taxation are made, the grand from Westminster will go down. And you | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
can guarantee that if there is a majority Conservative government, | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
there will be English votes for English laws after the election | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
Yes, I stress again that there are different ways of doing it but if | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
there is no cross-party agreement on that, the Conservatives will produce | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
our proposals and campaign for them in the general election. Don't go | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
away because I want to move on to some other matters. | :28:41. | :28:46. | |
Now to the fight against so-called Islamic State terrorists. | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
Yesterday, RAF Tornado jets carried out their first flights over Iraq | :28:50. | :28:51. | |
since MPs gave their approval for air-strikes against the militants. | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
When you face a situation with psychobabble -- psychopathic killers | :28:55. | :29:02. | |
who have already brutally beheaded one of our own citizens, who have | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
already launched and tried to execute plots in our own country to | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
maim innocent people, we have a choice - we can either stand back | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
from this and say it is too difficult, let's let someone else | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
try to keep our country safe, or we take the correct decision to have a | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
full, comprehensive strategy but let's be prepared to play our role | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
to make sure these people cannot do not trust harm. | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
And William Hague is still with me - until July he was, of course, | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
Why have only six Tornado jets being mobilised? Do not assume that is all | :29:38. | :29:49. | |
that will be taking part in this operation. That is all that has been | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
announced and I do not think we should speculate. Even the Danes are | :29:54. | :30:01. | |
sending more fighter jets. There is no restriction in the House of | :30:02. | :30:03. | |
Commons resolution passed on Friday on what we can do. So why so | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
little? Do not underestimate what our Tornados can do. They have some | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
unique capabilities, capabilities which have been specifically asked | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
for by our allies. When you are on the wrong end of six Tornados, it | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
will not feel like a small effort. But there will be other things which | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
can add to that effort. We are joining in a month after the | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
operation started, we are late, we are behind America, France, | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
Australia, Jordan, the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, one hand tied behind our | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
backs cause of the rule about not attacking Syria - why is the British | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
government leading from behind? First of all, we are a democratic | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
country, and you know all about Parliamentary approval. You could | :30:50. | :30:55. | |
have recalled parliament. We have done that, with a political | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
consensus. Other European countries also took the decision on Friday to | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
send their military assets. Our allies are absolutely content with | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
that, and Britain will play an important role, along with many | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
other nations, including Arab nations. General Sir David Richards | :31:11. | :31:18. | |
Sheriff, who just steps down as the Nato Deputy Supreme Commander, he | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
condemns the spineless lack of leadership and the absence of any | :31:24. | :31:25. | |
credible strategy. It is embarrassing,isn't it? Of course, | :31:26. | :31:36. | |
they turn into armchair generals. We are playing an important role, we | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
are a democratic country. Your viewers will remember, we had a vote | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
last year on military action in Syria and we were defeated in the | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
House of Commons, a bad moment for our foreign policy. We have taken | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
care to bring this forward when we can win a vote in the House of | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
Commons, and that is how we will proceed. The air Chief Marshal until | :31:56. | :32:04. | |
recently in charge of the RAF, he says, it makes no sense to bomb Iraq | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
but not Syria. He calls the decision ludicrous. Of course, it DOES make | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
sense to bomb Iraq, because the Iraqi government has asked for our | :32:16. | :32:23. | |
assistance. This came up a lot in the debate on Friday, and the Prime | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
Minister explained, similar to what I have just been saying, that there | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
is not a political consensus about Syria in the House of Commons. When | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
we did it last year, we were defeated, and it was described by | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
all commentators as a huge blow to the government and to our foreign | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
policy. So, we will bring forward proposals when there is a majority | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
in this country to do so in the House of Commons. Professor Michael | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
Clarke, one of the world top experts on military strategy and history, he | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
says there are very few important IS targets in northern Iraq, that they | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
are all in Syria, and we are limiting ourselves to the periphery | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
of the campaign. First of all, just because you are not doing everything | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
does not mean you should not do something. Secondly, the United | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
States and other countries are engaged in the action against | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
targets in Syria. This is a coalition effort, with people doing | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
different things. Thirdly, if we were to put their proposal to the | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
House of Commons tomorrow, and it was defeated, we would not have | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
achieved a great deal. You do not know it would have been defeated. | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
The Labour Party has given no indication they would have supported | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
that. So, you are hostage to the Labour Party? We have to win a | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
democratic vote in the House of Commons, and the Labour Party is a | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
very large part of the House of Commons. You are asking us to pursue | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
a policy which at the moment could be defeated in Parliament. Is it not | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
embarrassing to be on the wrong side of so many of these military | :34:04. | :34:07. | |
experts? Why should we trust the judgment of here today, gone | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
tomorrow, politicians? We have the military experts with us now. We | :34:13. | :34:19. | |
have a national security council, we do not have sofa government, unlike | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
the last government. The national security council is chaired by the | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
Prime Minister. Alongside the Chief of Defence Staff and the heads of | :34:27. | :34:34. | |
the intelligence agencies. And we take decisions together with the | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
people who have the information now. So, you will know what British | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
and American intelligence says about Syria. The Prime Minister has said | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
there is a danger that the British-born jihadists will come | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
back and attack us. But the intelligence reports which you will | :34:54. | :34:55. | |
have seen are clear - Al-Qaeda and its associates are selecting, | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
indoctrinating and training jihadists in Syria, not Iraq. Does | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
that not make the Syrian exclusion even more ludicrous? I cannot | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
comment on intelligence. Is the situation in Syria I direct threat | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
to this country? Yes, it is. Have we excluded action? No, we haven't | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
Could you come back to the House? The Prime Minister said, it was in | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
the motion put to the House of Commons, that if we want to take | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
action in Syria, we will come back to the House of Commons. But we have | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
not taken any decision about that and we would not do so if we thought | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
we were going to be defeated again. The government supports US strikes | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
on Syria, show you must relieve they are legal. Either way the legal | :35:47. | :35:53. | |
basis differs from one country to another, according to their reading | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
of international law. But you have supported it. We do believe that | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
they and Arab countries are taking action legally and we support their | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
action. But I understand your legitimate questions. But it comes | :36:08. | :36:14. | |
back to your basic question, why in Iraq and not Syria. Nonetheless it | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
is important to take action in Iraq. We are also engaged in Syria | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
in building up the political strength of the more moderate | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
opposition and in trying to bring about a peace agreement, and we do | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
not exclude action in Syria in the future. If we propose doing | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
something, then we ask for the specific legal advice. Why would you | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
not ask for the legal advice anyway? Because you have to be sure | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
of the legal advice at the time and also we do not comment on the advice | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
given to us by the Law officers Mr Blair ended up publishing his. That | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
was because there was a huge legal dispute. So you have not had legal | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
advice yet that Britain attacking Syria would be legal? The legal | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
situation is unlikely to be the barrier in this case, let me put it | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
that way. Within international law, you can act in the event of extreme | :37:14. | :37:23. | |
humanitarian distress and elective self-defence, so one can imagine | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
strong legal justification, but of course, we will take the legal | :37:27. | :37:28. | |
advice at the time. watching The Sunday Politics. We say | :37:29. | :37:30. | |
goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who Scotland. Coming up here in 20 | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
minutes, The Week Ahead. First though, | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
The Sunday Politics where you are. In London this week - | :37:40. | :37:51. | |
how the richest 1% are pulling Why should we be surprised that | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
people are upping sticks Emily Thornberry for Labour and | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
Bob Neill for the Conservatives are our resident MPs this week, | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
drawn back to Parliament for Let's get straight | :38:09. | :38:10. | |
on to the question of whether this city is caught in an | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
inescapable process of polarisation London is now the favourite | :38:16. | :38:40. | |
destination for the world's megarich, boasting more billionaires | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
than any other city on earth, according to the man who edits the | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
Sunday times which list. He says the capital offers things which are | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
European rivals simply cannot. Everybody speaks English, which is | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
part of the attraction. It is the London markets, the chance to make | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
investments will be more easily than in France or Germany. And there is a | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
lot of overseas billionaires who are buying into iconic London. | :39:07. | :39:15. | |
Another reason might well be that London offers the incredibly rich | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
ways to spend their money. Now, this is a Bugatti, the fastest car in all | :39:21. | :39:27. | |
the world. They only ever made 50, and this particular one is the only | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
one you can buy anywhere on earth which is still for sale brand-new. | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
And it can be yours for just ?2 million. Obviously, at that kind of | :39:38. | :39:45. | |
price, it is unaffordable not just to ordinary people, but actually to | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
most of the very rich, the so-called 1%. In themselves, the 1% is a very | :39:49. | :39:57. | |
broad group. Starting about ?106,000, if you are a couple | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
without children, going up to the multi billionaires. -- ?160,000 It | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
is not just the powerful at the top, it is the voice of everyone! It is | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
not just a few wealthy people, it is every working person! This week | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
Labour confirmed plans to introduce new taxes on incomes more than | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
150,000, and properties worth more than ?2 million, policies which will | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
hit London more than any other region. Our research is clear, 6% | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
of the properties which will be hit by this tax are in London and the | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
south-east of the vast majority in central London. While these policies | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
might lose Labour some popularity in the capital, could it be that Labour | :40:44. | :40:48. | |
are banking on being able to present themselves as the party of the many, | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
fighting the Tories, a party of the rich? The perception that the | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
Conservatives are on the side of the rich and privileged is a problem for | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
them, because most people do not think of themselves like that. Until | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
and unless the Conservatives find a way of convincing the electorate | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
that they are on the side of everybody, which is what Ed Miliband | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
is trying to do, they do have a problem. And so, going into their | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
own conference this week, the Conservatives may be careful when | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
opposing Ed Miliband's plans to take a bit more from the richest people | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
in the capital, lest it play into Labour's hands. | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
Danny Dorling is an academic who's just written Inequality And The 1%. | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
First off, what did he think of Labour's mansion tax idea? | :41:32. | :41:38. | |
Calling it a mansion tax is a silly word. Just modernising the council | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
tax, so that people are paying a fair amount, rather than somebody in | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
a very modest house, valued at just over 330,000 some years ago, is | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
paying the same as somebody in one valued at ?3 million or ?30 million. | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
Mansion tax was the wrong idea, the wrong word. Do you think it is a | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
tactic to create the perception that the Conservatives are the party that | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
protect the rich? I would expect so. It is an obvious way to go. If you | :42:11. | :42:18. | |
look at the last four years, most people's standard of living has | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
fallen. 99% of people have become more equal. The only group who have | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
seen their incomes rise have been the 1% of. Jawing most of that time, | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
the party in power, with their allies, the Liberals, have been | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
largely supported, and the 1% have done better. It is an easy one to go | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
for. The wealth of London should be used for the good of the country, we | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
should not have this incredibly wealthy city in a country which has | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
2 have food banks. Opinion polls suggest people see the Conservatives | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
as looking after the interests of the rich - do you think the 2 | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
parties are substantially different in that respect? I do not think they | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
are that different. If you lot that donors to Labour, they include some | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
pretty rich people. If you look at the background of the MPs, they are | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
very similar. Ed Miliband is in the 1%, his household income, angst and | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
his wife, puts him there. All three party leaders are. So, the parties | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
are not that different. Is interesting in the last four years | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
is that although the 1% have done better, the group just beneath | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
them, the 6%, have not, they have lost their child benefit and have | :43:32. | :43:38. | |
not seen increases. Cynically, I see Labour as representing the interests | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
as the rest of the 10%. I am afraid, 90% of society is not very well | :43:44. | :43:45. | |
represented in politics. Jerry Thomas asking the questions. | :43:46. | :43:47. | |
The cost of housing in the capital Is this a good thing, attracting all | :43:48. | :44:00. | |
of these super-rich people? It is important that London remains an | :44:01. | :44:05. | |
international centre. I think that rather academic approach missed out | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
the reality that this creates jobs for people write down the income | :44:10. | :44:13. | |
spectrum and brings in tax revenue. We have got to put it in proportion. | :44:14. | :44:24. | |
That is why we have been helping the 90%. We made sure the lowest earners | :44:25. | :44:32. | |
are out of tax, so 28 million people will be paying less tax. What about | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
a proportionate response to the fact that we hear that there are a number | :44:38. | :44:45. | |
of people moving away? We will be hearing from your party today, and | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
perhaps over the next week, about cutting benefits and money to the | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
poorest, so what will you do about the very richest? We have already | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
tightened up the ownership of some properties through foreign | :45:00. | :45:01. | |
companies, we have increased capital gains tax, we have tightened up on | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
loopholes, but where money is fairly earned, you do not want to scare | :45:08. | :45:10. | |
people away by adopting a hostile attitude. So you have gone as far as | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
you want to go? people away by adopting a hostile | :45:14. | :45:22. | |
attitude. So you have gone On It does not benefit the economy. We | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
need to make sure the money is directed properly. With our benefit | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
exchanges we will be redirecting that money to increase the amount of | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
paid apprenticeships. You personally wouldn't want to see any further | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
imposition, any more payments having to be made by the top 1%, the super | :45:41. | :45:48. | |
rich? I don't think it is necessary but I do think it is fair in that | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
system to everyone. Of course loopholes can be tightened up but we | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
are talking about a small percentage. We are talking about | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
hard-working families in the middle, and that is where we are doing our | :46:01. | :46:09. | |
best to keep the economy on track. By contrast, Emily Thornberry, it is | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
clear Labour has decided it needs to try to capture some more wealth at | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
the higher extreme, are you happy with that? It is basic Labour stuff. | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
Those with the broadest shoulders should shoulder the biggest burden. | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
In my area, we have had the people at the bottom end, whenever they | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
move out somebody in greater housing need moves in because of the | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
shortage, and at the other end, if a richer person moves out and even | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
richer person moves in. Now we have properties being sold to people | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
abroad who will spend millions of pounds on a flat they will not even | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
news. We think the mansion tax is an appropriate response. What | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
percentage do you think of people in your constituency will have to pay | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
this mansion tax? I don't know, but a lot of people are worried about | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
it. I bought my house 20 years ago and it is now worth a fortune. About | :47:12. | :47:18. | |
2 million possibly? About 2 million I think. You are not worried about | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
the mansion tax? I would rather not pay it. But when we first bought the | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
house it was worth a fraction of that. As our children grow up and | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
they cannot afford to live where they have been brought up, you begin | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
to realise there is more. But you will have less money to pass on to | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
your children under this tax. Are you fully supportive of this tax | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
being the route that Labour has decided to redistribute money away | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
from London to the rest of the country and to hit this cohort of | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
people? I am fully supportive of us putting more money into the NHS I | :47:59. | :48:08. | |
and other MPs have made sure Ed Balls understands that those | :48:09. | :48:17. | |
unlimited means... What does understand mean? Have you had the | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
guarantee? Because you are persistent about these things, have | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
you had the guarantee of how it will work, how it will be valued? There | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
are details to be worked out but we have a commitment that there will be | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
a form of bandings so those who buy a flat at Hyde Park Corner for 148 | :48:38. | :48:45. | |
million and paid ?26 in council tax will get clobbered, and so they | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
should, and it will go down depending on how much it is. Those | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
at the bottom end, there will be an understanding that there are people | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
unlimited means in that band. Bob Neill, we know the Conservative | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
position on mansion tax, but you have made it clear you think we are | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
fine as we are, but by dismissing this and keeping things exactly as | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
you are doing, you are playing in the face even not Conservative mayor | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
and cross-party support, for going for a revaluation of council tax. | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
That's not quite right. There are two important points, I understand | :49:26. | :49:32. | |
why she was guarded on this because a number of Labour MPs... You focus | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
on the Conservatives. You are not prepared to change a system that is | :49:39. | :49:45. | |
20 years old? Let me tell you why. When I looked at that as local | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
government minister, the experience we found in Wales was that when you | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
did a re-evaluation, it didn't just adjust the highest value, the | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
highest value houses, it dragged everybody up so everybody ended up | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
paying more council tax. With Scottish devolution coming in in the | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
next parliament, it is an opportunity to look at more powers | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
for English local authorities including London and I would rather | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
do it in that considered way rather than a knee jerk headline grabber | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
like mansion tax. Let's move on The cost of housing in the capital | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
is now so extortionate that we are That according to one of London s | :50:26. | :50:28. | |
business lobby groups. It says talented people are fleeing | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
the city for A lack of new homes is commonly | :50:33. | :50:47. | |
blamed for the cost of extortion housing in London. Some research | :50:48. | :50:54. | |
found that 41% of London employees would consider leaving the city | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
because of housing costs. 38% of businesses said it affects their | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
ability to recruit and retain staff. What can be done? Government are | :51:06. | :51:14. | |
very well aware of the need for the private sector to work together | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
they know they can unlock of the challenges. Some agencies are primed | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
to work with the private sector it to release some of those sites. But | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
London is still only building a fraction of the homes necessary to | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
deal with housing problems. We have been talking about the brain | :51:33. | :51:51. | |
drain for years but you are saying we are genuinely seeing a reversal | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
of that process? London needs to build something like ?50,000 -- | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
homes per year, and we are building 20,000. People live far away from | :52:04. | :52:14. | |
the tube, in squalid conditions and older people are able to live here | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
because they bought their houses years ago, they are fine. It is the | :52:20. | :52:28. | |
squeezed middle, people aged 25 40, 70% of them according to our | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
research are thinking about leaving London. When you want to have a | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
family, it is difficult to settle down in London. What is it about the | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
population increase that was not predicted? Or immigration? People | :52:42. | :52:46. | |
coming from elsewhere in the country? What is the reason why the | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
policymakers have not prepared for this? London is growing at its | :52:52. | :53:00. | |
fastest rate in history. Where do you think the blame is? We simply | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
don't build enough houses. There was a whole range of things that need to | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
change if we are going to build 50,000 homes rather than 20,000 We | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
need to make it easier to get planning permission, we need public | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
sector brownfield land and build homes on it, we need to look at the | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
ways in which councils and local authorities can build. We have never | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
built at scale in London without the public sector playing a role. What | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
about some sort of tax to stop builders sitting on land? There is | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
very little evidence that house-builders don't build pretty | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
much as quickly as they can. If you are a house-builder, of course you | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
need some land for the future because you need pipeline if you are | :53:56. | :53:59. | |
going to keep running as a business, but the issue of the private sector | :54:00. | :54:06. | |
holding land and not develop it is overstated. Emily Thornberry, what | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
Labour supporters might be depressed about is that if you are going to | :54:13. | :54:17. | |
take a controversial policy like council tax, you might not use this | :54:18. | :54:28. | |
on housing. Can I take you up on what you were saying about land | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
banking because I think in my London borough there are developers who do | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
this and the reason is because my local authority has a really hard | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
not policy on planning and won't allow developers to just build | :54:44. | :54:46. | |
private homes. They are unaffordable for Islington people and we make | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
sure we get a high proportion of affordable housing and they don t | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
like it, and they appeal to Boris and try to get through it that way. | :54:55. | :55:00. | |
Because he has a planning authority, and can override it. . | :55:01. | :55:09. | |
Exactly, and we have some controversial decisions from Boris | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
in the next week or two that people will not be happy with. I would | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
rather that land remained empty then simply being used for luxury flats, | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
who will -- which will bring more rich people who do not play a role | :55:26. | :55:33. | |
in our lives. This has got to be one of the massive issues, you are | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
really vulnerable here, aren't you? I don't think we are vulnerable but | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
all the political parties need to realise that for 30 odd years we | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
have not been building enough homes and that is why we are putting | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
centrepiece our proposal to build 100,000 low-cost, affordable houses | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
by removing some of the genuine difficulties the planning system can | :55:58. | :56:08. | |
put in their way. The homes to buy? Yes, different people have different | :56:09. | :56:13. | |
needs. Some people want to rent privately for a period, some people | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
will want to start on the housing market. How many do we imagine? You | :56:18. | :56:26. | |
say 100,000, how many do we imagine you will be able to get built in | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
London where land values are so high? I think we can achieve a lot. | :56:32. | :56:37. | |
Boris has released the equivalent of about 210 football pitches of public | :56:38. | :56:41. | |
land simply from within his own agencies that can go for housing, | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
and we are doing that nationally as well. Ebbsfleet is within London | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
commuter land, we need to be doing much more of that. I will just give | :56:52. | :56:58. | |
John the last word, a politically if you like, but what do you want to | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
see offered between now and May We need to really get the public sector | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
land in London into development and that requires central government but | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
London government in charge of getting that land out of dead public | :57:15. | :57:21. | |
use. We also need to look at how we can enable London local authorities | :57:22. | :57:25. | |
to choose their balance sheet is. Now for the rest of the news in 60 | :57:26. | :57:28. | |
seconds. The head of transport | :57:29. | :57:35. | |
for London has said the capital s transport crisis sparking riots if | :57:36. | :57:38. | |
more is not done improve services. Peter Hendy has warned of social | :57:39. | :57:47. | |
unrest if low paid workers living on outskirts of the capital are unable | :57:48. | :57:55. | |
to commute to work more easily. The first dedicated clinic assisting | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
victims of female genital mutilation has opened at | :58:03. | :58:04. | |
University College Hospital. The training will provide medical | :58:05. | :58:06. | |
treatment and psychological services One of London's top state schools | :58:07. | :58:08. | |
has banned one of its Muslim pupils Camden school | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
for girls said it will challenge any clothing which does not allow pupil | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
teacher interaction and has refused The tube is to run a 24-hour service | :58:18. | :58:19. | |
at weekends from 12 September 2 15. Passengers will be able to take | :58:20. | :58:25. | |
the so-called night tube on Fridays Bob Neill, the cost of public | :58:26. | :58:44. | |
transport and the cost of housing could lead to social unrest, says | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
transport Commissioner. He is banging the drum for more transport | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
investment, that is his job. I think that form of words is unfair for | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
people who are hard pressed to don't resort to that sort of behaviour. | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
Driven by the lack of job opportunities and the lack of | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
ability to travel into where the jobs are. I think it is rhetoric, | :59:10. | :59:14. | |
but underpinning it is the important point that particularly in the Outer | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
London boroughs there is a lot of pressure so we need to encourage | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
development in the right sort of areas, we need to continue to invest | :59:23. | :59:27. | |
in the transport system. The mayor has been doing that, the tube is | :59:28. | :59:37. | |
part of that. Many jobs are also created by that, it all helps. | :59:38. | :59:44. | |
Emily, it is apolitical, the challenges for any party after 016, | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
after next year, and there is the money. Yes, and I understand that | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
but in the end we cannot keep taking for granted London, in my view. I | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
will say this to anybody. London generates a large proportion of the | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
wealth in this country and we cannot just keep stumbling on. We need | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
proper infrastructure, proper transport systems, more homes.. But | :00:11. | :00:17. | |
the last thing you want to do is stifle that wealth by preventing | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
people coming here. Yes, we need to have... Thank goodness we are having | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
Crossrail but we need more homes, of course we do, and we cannot keep | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
taking London for granted and saying it is OK. Where would this country | :00:32. | :00:38. | |
be without London? On that note .. My thanks to you both. Andrew, back | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
to you. Here we are back in Birmingham with | :00:43. | :01:01. | |
the Conservatives. The Tories thought all they had to do was come | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
here, have a rally, a jamboree, and off they go to the races, or in | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
their case the general election Two races later it hasn't quite worked | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
out like that. Let's look at the state of this conference as it gets | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
under way. On our panel we are joined by David Davis. You wrote an | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
article in the Mail on Sunday this morning which was an Exocet at the | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
heart of David Cameron's modernising strategy. It was designed to act as | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
a lever. It was designed to cause trouble. No, we are in the running | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
for the next general election. One of the characteristics of having a | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
five year fixed term Parliaments is that the last year is about | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
campaigning. It is important we beat Miliband, he would be a disastrous | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
Prime Minister. You think the whole modernising strategy was a wrong | :02:03. | :02:09. | |
turn, that is what the article said. Yes. Has that opened the door to | :02:10. | :02:25. | |
UKIP? It has left a lot of people disillusioned with politics. What do | :02:26. | :02:34. | |
you do to get it right? Who was listening to you? | :02:35. | :02:53. | |
Frankly we need to take a more robust series of policies. How many | :02:54. | :03:12. | |
more UKIP defections will there be? I do not think there will be any | :03:13. | :03:21. | |
more. I would be very surprised I know Nigel Farage has a brilliant | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
sense of timing, but I do not think he has got the resources to do that, | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
namely, another Tory MP. So it could be another Labour one, maybe? I | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
think an awful lot will hinge on what happens in Rochester. Because | :03:35. | :03:42. | |
that is not a slam dunk. Clack and unfortunately looks like it will be | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
a walkover for them. But Rochester is a different scene. And so, there | :03:47. | :03:58. | |
could be a kind of Newark situation. When I campaigned in Newark, two | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
labour families I spoke to said they would vote Tory to keep UKIP out. | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
How bad was the Labour conference last week? One politician said after | :04:09. | :04:16. | |
he had a really bad performance that his television performance was | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
suboptimal. I think that would be a good way of describing Ed | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
Miliband's speech. The problem for Ed Miliband in memorising speeches | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
is that we are not auditioning for a new lines Olivier, we're rehearsing | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
for Prime Minister. He failed the Laurence Olivier test, and therefore | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
failed the Prime Minister test. I think the real problem for him was | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
forgetting to mention the deficit. He spoke from the heart about issues | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
which she really cares about, the NHS, the rupture between wages and | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
inflation, and forgot the deficit. Those issues are important, but if | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
you are not addressing things like the deficit, then people are really | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
not going to be listening to your messages on the areas that matter. | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
Was it bad? Yes, suboptimal, I am afraid. I hope that this ends the | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
nonsense of leaders wasting their time learning speeches off by | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
heart. You could learn a Shakespeare play in the time it takes to learn | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
70 minutes of a leader's speech I think we should just go back to | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
sensible reading what you have written. You can then alter it just | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
beforehand. A lot of things were changing, which is not surprising, | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
but he did not have time to learn it. It is a silly gimmick, it worked | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
once or twice, but that is enough for that. Despite some of the | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
derision of Mr Miliband, the Tories are flat-lining in the sun decks, | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
they have been there almost since the disastrous budget, the | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
omnishambles, of 2012, Labour is still several points ahead, nothing | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
seems to change? And David Cameron is now the leader in trouble. It is | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
almost as if a week is a long time in politics. I thought the Labour | :05:57. | :06:04. | |
and friends was Saab -- sub-suboptimal. It was so parochial. | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
You could've watched the top speeches without knowing that the | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
borders of Ukraine, and Iraq and Syria were in question. I hope, | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
because of Friday's discussion in Parliament, that this conference | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
will raise its sights a bit, and we will have something in Cameron's | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
speech, possibly that of George Osborne as well, which is a bit more | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
global. People hoped UKIP had gone away during the summer, people at | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
this conference, I mean, but it is back with a bang. They are still up | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
at 15% in the polls, the Tories languishing on 32 - what is going to | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
change? UKIP won 3% of the last election, I always thought they | :06:49. | :06:55. | |
would get about 6%. If, by the turn of the year, they are still in | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
double digits, I think at that point you can begin to wake of his | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
party's chances of winning. I have had three people say to me so far, | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
come election day, it will be fine, people will sober up and so on. It | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
will be all right on the night is not a very good strategy, frankly. | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
When they get past 5%, I start to bite into our 3-way marginal seats, | :07:19. | :07:24. | |
with liberals, Labour and Tories, and we have got about 60 of those in | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
the Midlands and the north, so it really is quite serious. And if I | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
may steal one of David's lines, when you were interviewing Mark Reckless | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
this morning, and was not talking about the EU referendum, he was | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
talking about how he felt he had broken his pledges to the electorate | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
because the Conservatives he said had failed on immigration and on the | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
deficit, and those sort of bread-and-butter issues could be | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
really potent on the doorstep, which means the Tories have got to run the | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
kind of campaign they ran in Newark, which is a real centre ground, | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
Reddan but a campaign, in which they would hope to get Liberal Democrat | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
and Labour voters out to vote tactically against UKIP. I think | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
today we have seen Cameron been pushed to the right. He has had to | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
say, yes, I would leave Europe, which he has never said before. It | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
is a huge stepping stone, a big difference. It takes the Tory party | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
somewhere else. May be get them a lot of votes. But it has not so far. | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
But I think it loses a lot of people. The industry organisations, | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
for example. The prospect of going out of Europe, but is quite a fight | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
for them. Is it not the lesson that you can out UKIP UKIP? Well, you do | :08:41. | :08:48. | |
not need to, really. I agree, last week was sub-sub-suboptimal. Hold | :08:49. | :08:59. | |
on, that is enough subs! I would not be crowing too much! But what I was | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
going to say, he left out something incredibly important, the deficit. | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
But how many people outside the M25 are thinking about the deficit? One | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
problem we face with Miliband is, he is good at politics and bad at | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
economics, in a way. He comes up with bonkers policies which people | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
love, price-fixing, things like that. Our problem will be about | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
relevance on the doorstep. I do not think at the end of the day it will | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
be about Europe. But was there not a moment of danger for you at the | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
conference, that one area where Miliband is potentially vulnerable | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
is not having credible team with business. Who turned up at the | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
Labour conference, the head of Airbus, saying, we have got to stay | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
in the European Union? The danger is that Europe allows the Labour Party | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
to gain credibility with business. There is some truth in that. But we | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
are in effectively the home straight, the last six months, and | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
people will be fussing about prices and jobs. Very parochial. They will | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
not be saying, what does the CBI think about this? It is, what is | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
happening to me, in my town, in my factory, in my office. That is where | :10:16. | :10:23. | |
the fight will be. Is it not the truth that if UKIP stays anywhere | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
near around this level of support, it is impossible for the Tories to | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
win an overall majority? I would say, if it is this level of support, | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
it is impossible for the Tories to finish as the biggest party, even in | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
a hung Parliament. The Tories keep trying to win back UKIP voters with | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
cold logic - witches it makes Ed Miliband becoming prime minister | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
more likely. UKIP is basically a vessel phenomenon, coming from the | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
gut, and David Cameron has never found the emotional pitch in his | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
rhetoric to meet that. I wonder whether we will see that moron | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
Wednesday. It is just not him. I hope we do. -- more on Wednesday. I | :11:04. | :11:16. | |
hope you're right that we do actually engage on emotion. So far | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
with UKIP, our policy has been to insult them. It does not work. I | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
know that from my constituency. We have to say to them, there is a | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
wider Tory family, we understand you are patria, we understand you are | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
worried about your family, and we do the same. What does it tell us about | :11:33. | :11:37. | |
the state of the Tories, seven months from the election, the | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
economy is going well, they are not that far behind Labour, and yet | :11:41. | :11:43. | |
there is all sorts of leadership speculation? It is extraordinary. | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
They are doing well, they are in with a shout. It depends. UKIP has | :11:49. | :11:57. | |
to be kept below 9% of. -- below 9%. I think David Cameron is one of | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
the few who speaks human, actually talks quite well to people and does | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
not look like a swivel-eyed loons. Whereas a lot of people behind him | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
do. You look at Duncan Smith and Eric Pickles, they are all kind of | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
driven, ideological men, with very right-wing policies. And nice | :12:19. | :12:27. | |
people! Don't hold back! He is not the Addams family, he is basically | :12:28. | :12:30. | |
quite human. I think a lot of people do not realise how ideological he is | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
himself and how well he has led his party in the direction they all want | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
to go. You go on about him being this metropolitan moderniser, I do | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
not think that is what he is, really. It may not be visible from | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
the guardian offices in the metropolis! Everybody where you are, | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
Polly, is a metropolitan moderniser. And where you are, too. That is the | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
nature of living in London. The trouble is, when these people get | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
into Westminster, they are part of Westminster, too. If you could only | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
win by being an outsider, the moment you get in, you are done for. All | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
teeing up nicely for Boris Johnson to be the next leader? I do not | :13:12. | :13:20. | |
think so! The point of my Exocet, or lever, this morning, is that I think | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
this is winnable. If we are good Tories for the next six months, we | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
can do this. It is by denying ground to UKIP, not giving in to them, not | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
buckling. Denying ground. Thank you to our panel. They did all right | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
today, but the normal. That is your lot for today. I am back tomorrow. | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
We will have live coverage of George Osborne's speech to the conference. | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
I am back next week in Glasgow for The Sunday Politics at the Labour | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
conference. How could you miss that? Remember, if it is Sunday it | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
is The Sunday Politics. Bye-bye of statutory press regulation in | :13:57. | :14:25. | |
sponge cake may be a bridge too far. I think I've overdone it | :14:26. | :14:40. | |
with the pistachios and somehow, the custard's split, | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
but it's too late! | :14:44. | :14:46. |