Browse content similar to 24/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Jeremy Corbyn calls on Britain to accept more refugees and economic | :00:36. | :00:43. | |
migrants, as the Port of Calais is forced to close overnight | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
after migrants attempted to force their way onto a Channel ferry. | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
David Cameron appears increasingly confident he'll bag a deal on EU | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
reform next month, including new measures to reduce EU migration | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
In the first of three Sunday Politics debates, | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
the leave and remain campaigns go head-to-head on immigration. | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
And speaking exclusively to this programme, Ed Miliband's former | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
pollster Deborah Mattinson criticises Labour's official report | :01:14. | :01:17. | |
into why the party lost the general election for failing to face up | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
I think it was a whitewash and a massive missed opportunity. | :01:21. | :01:36. | |
The Conservative's 7/7 candidate has now launched his | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
-- the conservative's Mayor candidate has now launched his | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
action plan. And with me, as always, | :01:50. | :01:50. | |
the best and the brightest political panel in the business - | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
Nick Watt, Beth Rigby and Janan They'll be tweeting | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
throughout the programme So, the Port of Calais was forced | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
to close for a while yesterday after migrants managed to breach | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
security and board a ferry. Amateur footage captured | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
the moment a group managed to break through security fences and head | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
towards the P ferry. The incident happened | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
during a protest at the port, The head of the Road Haulage | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
Association here in Britain has renewed demands for the French | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
military to intervene. As it happens, | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, was in northern France yesterday, | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
visiting the migrant camps While he was there, | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
he reiterated his calls for the British Government to do | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
more to help migrants. I talk to people all over | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
the country and not everyone is that cold-hearted, not everyone | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
else has a stony heart. They are prepared to reach out, | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
and I think we need a response And indeed Germany has | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
done an enormous amount, other countries have | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
done varying amounts, and I think we should | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
be part of helping to bring a European-wide support | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
to people, and that's what I'm Jeremy Corbyn yesterday. Beth, what | :02:58. | :03:10. | |
we make of the story, the government will allow unaccompanied children | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
refugees, already in Europe, to come into Britain? Some of my government | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
sources have suggested that is not what David Cameron would like to do, | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
if you think about how he dealt with the crisis in August, he said we | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
will take some Syrian refugees but we will take them from the camps in | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
Syria and around Syria, we will not take them from Calais, because he | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
thinks this is a push factor and it makes people come over. What the | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
government might end up doing, they might agree to take refugee children | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
unaccompanied, but only from Syria and the Middle East, not from | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
Calais. What about the kids who have made it here? They could be bad way. | :03:53. | :04:00. | |
Nick? The signals on government, they have not made any decisions yet | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
and the announcement is not imminent, but Beth makes a very | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
important point, the Prime Minister said you do not want to encourage | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
people to make that journey, therefore the instinct is to take | :04:12. | :04:13. | |
people from the neighbouring countries. Apart from unaccompanied | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
kids, they have come across in terrible conditions, and they are in | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
Calais and Dunkirk. The call to take these children, from that report, | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
that says that is a fair proportion of the 26,000 unaccompanied children | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
that have come to Europe. The figures in that report are | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
terrifying, in 2014, of the 13,000 unaccompanied children that ended up | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
in Italy, 3000 went missing, and of the African children that went to | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
Italy, half of them had been subject to some form of sexual abuse, it is | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
the most horrific figures. That 3000 figure, endorsed by Jeremy Corbyn, | :04:53. | :04:59. | |
also endorsed by the cross-party International Development Select | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
Committee, said there is edible pressure on the Prime Minister on | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
this one. -- formidable. The humanitarian case has been strongly | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
but by Jeremy Corbyn and others, but it is marginal. 3000 children, that | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
would be great for them, but 37,000 migrants have come to Greece in | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
January alone, and the mud has not even ended, ten times the number | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
that came in last January -- the month. The problem is getting bigger | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
and bigger, and the response has been wholly inadequate. It has, it | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
looks marginal, but that is about as much as you can expect, until there | :05:38. | :05:44. | |
is EU wide agreement about how to distribute what you might call the | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
burden of the influx, but there is nothing close to that agreement and | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
there's not even a deal between the EU and Turkey about ceiling borders | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
and dealing with human traffickers let alone a deal within the EU about | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
which country bears how much of the burden. Until then, you just have | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
these improvised solutions, 3000 here, France taking a bit more, and | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
there is no certainty that the unaccompanied children are | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
overwhelmingly Syrian, there is the suspicion that Syrians travel as | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
complete families and the unaccompanied children are | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
disproportionately from Somalia, for example, similarly distress, but not | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
the problem that they think they are dealing with. This plays into the | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
referendum question, there is the nervousness in the in campaign, that | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
a referendum in September, after a summer of large sums of migrants | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
coming in, kids or otherwise, would affect the result one way or | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
another. That is a big story, and we will come back to that at the end of | :06:44. | :06:45. | |
the show. Last week, the long-awaited autopsy | :06:46. | :06:47. | |
into Labour's defeat at the general The report by Margaret Beckett | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
concluded that Ed Miliband wasn't judged to be as strong a leader | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
as David Cameron, and that Labour had failed to shake off the myth | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
that Labour was responsible But parallel research was also | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
commissioned to inform the Beckett Report, | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
and despite being completed in July, The former Labour pollster | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
Deborah Mattinson carried out this research, and has spoken exclusively | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
to the Sunday Politics. We are saying the Conservatives | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
are the largest party. We all know what happened | :07:14. | :07:24. | |
on election night. Instead of a hung parliament, | :07:25. | :07:26. | |
David Cameron walked back into Downing Street | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
with a majority of 12. Labour got it wrong, as well, | :07:32. | :07:33. | |
suffering a net loss of 26 Friends, this is not the speech | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
I wanted to give today. Ed Miliband resigned | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
within hours, but it has taken eight and a half | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
months for the party to publish its own inquiry | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
into what went wrong. Margaret Beckett's report is called | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
Learning The Lessons From Defeat. It doesn't, says one pollster, | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
who has worked for several former I think it was a whitewash | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
and a massive missed opportunity. Just a few weeks after the election | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
defeat, Deborah Mattinson was commissioned | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
by the acting leader Harriet Harman to research | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
why Labour lost. She says the evidence was meant | :08:10. | :08:11. | |
to feed into the Beckett I did brief Margaret | :08:12. | :08:13. | |
Beckett so I was somewhat disappointed not to see some | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
of that reflected back. Yes, I think she picked up | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
on the economy but there was actually no analysis, | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
it is reduced effectively to one And there is a lot of quite | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
defensive stuff about the fact this does not necessarily | :08:29. | :08:38. | |
mean that anti-austerity is wrong. "Of course we had a great business | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
strategy, what a pity the voters "That was probably | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
the fault of the media". Quite apologetic, | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
lots of defensive stuff in there, but nothing that actually | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
really shone a light on what had Do you accept that when Labour | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
was last in power it No, I don't, and I know | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
you might not agree with that Margaret Beckett's report | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
acknowledges that Labour failed to shake what she | :09:05. | :09:12. | |
describes as the myth that the party caused | :09:13. | :09:14. | |
the financial crisis. But she concludes that Labour | :09:15. | :09:16. | |
was not seen as anti-aspiration Deborah Mattinson says that | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
for people in her focus groups Frankly, they did not trust Labour | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
to manage the economy effectively, they were very | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
concerned about that. In their minds, they | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
are seeing a conflation between the financial crisis, | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
which they do blame Labour for, rightly or wrongly, | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
and their sense that Labour would waste money, | :09:43. | :09:43. | |
their money, and run the economy Voters could not see | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
him as Prime Minister. But Margaret Beckett | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
concluded that Ed Miliband faced an exceptionally | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
vitriolic and personal attack People looked at Ed Miliband | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
and did not see him And if you look at every | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
election since the 70s, what we see, the party that has | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
the leader with the best ratings is the party that wins, | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
there is no exception to that. I get it, that people weren't | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
prejudiced against immigration, I get it and I understand | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
the need to change. The Beckett Report acknowledges that | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
Labour did not quite get it on issues like immigration | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
and benefits, and that the fear of the SNP propping up a minority | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
government scared off many voters. But Deborah Mattinson says Labour | :10:34. | :10:44. | |
was losing support in Scotland well before the independence referendum | :10:45. | :10:52. | |
and the surge in SNP support. Put simply, she said | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
voters did not feel that Labour was on their side, | :10:56. | :10:57. | |
and the party still does not I feel very concerned | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
that the lessons will be learned and I can't see how | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
they will be learned, because that was the vehicle, | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
that was the moment, and if this report does not address | :11:15. | :11:17. | |
those issues then I'm not No political party has a divine | :11:18. | :11:19. | |
right to exist and unless Labour really listens to those voters, | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
that it must persuade, it stands no chance | :11:25. | :11:26. | |
of winning the next election. And we've been joined by the former | :11:27. | :11:28. | |
Shadow Cabinet minister Michael Dugher - you might remember | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
he was sacked by Jeremy Corbyn Deborah Mattinson says the better | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
report is a whitewash, is she right? -- Beckett Report. That is a bit | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
harsh, does it have all the answers, though, of course not, and I think | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
Deborah Mattinson make some very fair observations in that piece, but | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
what Margaret concludes in her report, it is not a massive shock to | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
those of us that were knocking on doors last May and have thought long | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
and hard about it since, we were not trusted enough on the economy, and | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
that was the big issue, but also on immigration and welfare, we were | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
seen as out of touch, and also leadership being the most important | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
thing in any race. She makes those conclusions, in the report, and I | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
think the key thing now, is to listen to the issues that she | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
raises, but also listen to Debra and many others who have made a | :12:21. | :12:22. | |
contribution since the report came out. We have got to face up to the | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
difficult issues as to why we lost, if we are going to win again. Voters | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
found Ed Miliband the personification of the Labour brand, | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
that was the problem, well-meaning but ineffectual. I'm likely to | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
deliver -- and likely to deliver on promises. Did you detect that at the | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
time? I was very close to Ed Miliband and I gave him some advice, | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
some of which he took and some of which he didn't. I wanted him to be | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
a success, I saw him in private and you have strong he did beat, and | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
often he got very unfair coverage in the media and often he did not do | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
himself justice in his performances -- I saw him in private and how | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
strong he did beat. The real lesson here, for any lead at the Labour | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
Party can you have got to play to your strengths and you have got a | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
fundamentally address your perceived weaknesses. The private polling | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
showed the Tories were in the late, was that not a warning that things | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
were going wrong? -- in the lead. I'm not sure how much private | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
polling I was shown. You did not see this? The year before the election, | :13:35. | :13:40. | |
I was appointed Shadow Secretary of State for Transport, I was not so | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
much part of the central operations and I did not see private polling. | :13:44. | :13:49. | |
Many of us thought that we were getting difficult conversations on | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
the doorstep, but we were told consistently, including by the | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
pollsters, that we were neck and neck and there was a perception that | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
we were doing better in the marginals, as well. That turned out | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
to be catastrophically wrong, but one of the things that is not in | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
Margaret's report is about the organisational lessons, that does | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
speak, if you have a million conversations, what are you doing | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
with the data? I remember in the last two days of the campaign, I was | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
sent to Derbyshire, Amber Valley, and in Yorkshire, to Rothwell, but I | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
should have been sent to Morley to help Ed Balls, and Derby North to | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
help Chris Wood this. The campaign has got to base what they do on the | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
information, and in 2010 we took very hard decisions, six months away | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
from polling day, based on the information we had about prioritise | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
in resources, but are not sure that happens this time. -- I'm not sure. | :14:43. | :14:50. | |
Deborah Mattinson looks at the boundary changes before the next | :14:51. | :15:01. | |
election, and she thinks the Beckett Report made a failure to confront | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
why you lost enough. Her conclusion is this, Labour's future is in | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
profound jeopardy - is it? I think we have a massive challenge at the | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
next election. I don't think any political party has a right to be | :15:18. | :15:23. | |
successful in the future. I am an optimistic person. Labour, when we | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
have got our act together, when we have been in touch with the public | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
we have shown we can win. Is Labour's continued existence a | :15:34. | :15:41. | |
question mark? We have got to start getting in touch with the public. | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
One thing the report did slightly skirt around, the question over | :15:48. | :15:59. | |
politics as an identity. People like myself have been banging on about | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
this, not just in the weeks before the election but for months and | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
years before, and we need to face up to that. No political party has a | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
right to exist, but I think if Labour gets our act together, if we | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
stop picking fights with ourselves, if we face up to the difficult | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
issues in this report and elsewhere, we can be successful in the future. | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
In what ways, as things stand at the moment, what ways will Labour be | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
better, in better shape, under Jeremy Corbyn heading into the 2020 | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
election than it was in the 2015 election? What is one of the main | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
conclusions from the Beckett Report, it said we did make some gains, | :16:46. | :16:54. | |
1.5%, but we were stacking up area -- support in areas where we were | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
already strong. If they think you are out of touch on immigration and | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
welfare, you had better start talking about immigration and | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
welfare. Jeremy Corbyn seems to want almost no limit on immigration, it | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
is hard to detect if he would have any limits, and he is rather against | :17:15. | :17:22. | |
welfare reforms. I'm not sure that is an election winning strategy. On | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
immigration, I made this point to him, you have got to understand this | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
is the second biggest issue nationally, it is the biggest issue | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
in many constituencies including mine, and I said that many of the | :17:37. | :17:45. | |
answers are about stopping pressure on wages and conditions. There are | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
good centre-left solutions to these problems, about Europe dividing more | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
help for communities facing these changes. I made the point to him, on | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
welfare he is right to say we should be standing up to help the most | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
vulnerable, but in my experience you only get heard on those issues if | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
the public think you are for real in terms of wanting to be tough on | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
people who are frankly making decisions not to go into work so you | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
have got to get the balance right. Do you accept, given his huge | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
support among party members, that Jeremy Corbyn will lead you into the | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
next election? He faces a big test in May. We have seen the polls and | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
the ratings, any big test is a real election. He faces a big test | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
because he was clear that a left-wing agenda is the key to | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
transforming our fortunes in Scotland, I hope he's right. We need | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
to win in London but we have got to show we can make big gains in the | :18:50. | :18:53. | |
rest of London as well and we have got to hold onto power in Wales as | :18:54. | :18:59. | |
well. But even if he fails these tests, do you think there will be an | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
attempt to remove him? We have got to get behind Jeremy and he has got | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
to show us that he can deliver and turn things around. We need to get | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
behind him. People are very clear about what Jeremy stands for. He has | :19:16. | :19:26. | |
achieved remarkable cut throughs. Over the next few months we will see | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
more of that so he has got to be given a chance because he has a huge | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
mandate by the party members but he has got to show he can turn that | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
into real support from the public. That means also winning the support | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
of people who voted Conservative last time. It is not an easy | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
challenge, we are behind him in that but he has got to show he can learn | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
the lessons that Margaret Beckett has talked about and Debra and | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
others as well. We have got to stop it there, thank you. | :19:57. | :19:58. | |
The hole Labour is in is deepest in Scotland, where the once-mighty | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
party now holds just one Westminster seat. | :20:02. | :20:03. | |
If Jeremy Corbyn is to win the general election in 2020, | :20:04. | :20:05. | |
he needs to claw back support from the SNP, | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
and the first test of his appeal north of the border is coming up | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
fast in elections to the Scottish parliament in May. | :20:12. | :20:13. | |
Speaking to Andrew Marr this morning, the leader of the SNP took | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
aim at Mr Corbyn, criticising a plan he's floated | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
to keep Britain's Trident submarines minus their nuclear warheads. | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
I wonder what you made of Jeremy Corbyn's suggestion that | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
you could keep the Trident submarines, therefore keep the jobs | :20:27. | :20:28. | |
in Scotland, but not have nuclear missiles on them. | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
I think it was ridiculous and I think it's a sign of just how | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
tortured these debates are becoming within the Labour Party. | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
On Trident, I agree with Jeremy Corbyn. | :20:38. | :20:39. | |
I'm not in favour of the renewal of Trident, and we might have a vote | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
on that in the House of Commons sooner rather than later. | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
I think the real challenge for Jeremy Corbyn is, | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
can he get his party into the position he wants it to be | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
in so we can have any chance at all of stopping | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
For Labour to sit on the fence on this issue or have a free vote | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
on this issue will leave them without a shred of credibility. | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
And I've been joined now by the Shadow Scottish Secretary, | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
Let's pick up on the point from Nicola Sturgeon about Trident. In | :21:12. | :21:22. | |
Scotland the electoral choice on this is clear, if you are unilateral | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
disarmament, you vote SNP. You couldn't vote Labour on this issue | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
because people don't know what you stand for. The Labour Party has been | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
clear, a motion was passed almost unanimously to reject the renewal of | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
Trident on that policy basis. But it is not party policy. There is a | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
policy review happening at the moment so the Scottish Labour | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
Party's policy on this is clear. It is a Scottish election don't forget. | :21:55. | :22:02. | |
These Trident issues are diverting us away from big issues of policy in | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
terms of public services. The Deborah Mattinson research found | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
Scottish voters felt abandoned by the Labour Party. When did Labour | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
start taking Scottish voters for granted? It has been clear from a | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
number of reports that have been done that there has been a process | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
in the party where we have not devolved the party as much as | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
Scotland. The Scottish party, in 1999 it was a tremendous opportunity | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
for the Scottish Labour Party but I don't think we have caught up with | :22:39. | :22:52. | |
that. I think under Kesia's leadership she is refreshing that. | :22:53. | :23:03. | |
You face further electoral disasters in Holyrood in May. No one is under | :23:04. | :23:11. | |
any illusion this will be a difficult election, but what Kesia | :23:12. | :23:18. | |
is trying to do is get a positive policy platform together, reconnect | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
with Scottish people, respond to what Scottish people have been | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
saying on the doorsteps, and she's doing that on the basis of | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
responding to what the Scottish people want. That's what people want | :23:30. | :23:35. | |
to have. What the Shadow Cabinet was told by your own election director | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
is that he expects you to lose all of your constituency MSPs, just as | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
you lost all of your constituency MPs bar you last May. What can you | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
do to avoid that? The important thing is to go back to Kezia | :23:54. | :24:04. | |
Dugdale's policy. She wants to change the policies of the Scottish | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
Labour Party in order for us to have a policy platform that is incredibly | :24:10. | :24:16. | |
positive. What is the most distinctive Scottish policy | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
initiative since Jeremy Corbyn became leader? This isn't about | :24:21. | :24:25. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, it is about Kezia Dugdale. We have helped to buy | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
scheme for first time buyers, we want to build 60,000 affordable | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
homes, we want to put the 50p tax rate back in to close the | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
educational attainment gap, they are just a few of the policies she has | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
announced already. She is one of the few people in this election campaign | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
actually talking about the policy issues of Scotland. Nobody is | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
talking about these kinds of issues. Do you think that collection | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
policies you have outlined are enough to stave off a further | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
electoral humiliation? It is just the start of a policy platform she | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
will be announcing in the run-up to the elections. Help to buy is a Tory | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
policy. This is about resolving a housing crisis that has been created | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
by an SNP government. We are not holding them to account because | :25:19. | :25:26. | |
people are obsessing over things like polls. The transport system is | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
creaking at the seams. This has got to be dealt with and there is a real | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
opportunity to talk about the powers the Scottish Government currently | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
has and new powers. Let's talk about tomorrow's Scotland. How much would | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
a top rate 50p tax for Scotland raised? Up to 10 million, depending | :25:47. | :25:52. | |
where you would have any change but every single penny would go into | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
educational attainment. When the Conservatives cut the tax rate to | :25:57. | :26:04. | |
45p, the Treasury were projecting it would cost ?3 billion a year to | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
satisfy. That was for the whole of the UK, so 60-110,000,000 is a lot | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
of money we can use to cut the educational attainment gap. Why is | :26:16. | :26:24. | |
Jeremy Corbyn not cutting much ice north of the border? He has won a | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
significant mandate within the party, he needs to win that now | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
within the country but what we are concentrating on now is Kezia | :26:33. | :26:39. | |
Dugdale as a new leader. I am interesting that you stress all the | :26:40. | :26:47. | |
time Kezia Dugdale, is Jeremy Corbyn and asset or a liability in May? He | :26:48. | :26:56. | |
is an asset because she wants us to invest in public services, he wants | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
to use the powers in the Scottish bill to transform the Scottish | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
Parliament... So why are the polls, if you have got Kezia Dugdale and | :27:06. | :27:13. | |
Jeremy Corbyn doing all the right things, why are the polls so dire | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
for you in Scotland? We will fight for every single vote and seat, we | :27:20. | :27:23. | |
fight to win every election but whilst we are talking about polls | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
and not holding the Scottish Government to account for a dreadful | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
record in Government for eight years and not talking about positive | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
policies being put forward, we will not get any traction in the polls. | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
Let's get this campaign onto real issues that ordinary Scots want to | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
talk about on the doorsteps, which is about holding the Government to | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
account for a dreadful track record, and get some policies on there that | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
says to the people the Scottish Labour Party has changed and we can | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
talk about tomorrow's Scotland and how we can transform people's lives. | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
Thank you. The huge influx of migrants | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
into the EU from Syria and elsewhere is putting the future | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
of the EU in "grave danger", that was the stark warning | :28:07. | :28:08. | |
from the French Prime Minister Tomorrow, EU interior ministers | :28:09. | :28:10. | |
will discuss a possible two-year suspension of the Schengen system | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
of passport-free travel. It all comes as David Cameron seeks | :28:15. | :28:15. | |
to put the finishing touches to a new deal for the UK | :28:16. | :28:18. | |
inside the EU before But how is the migrant crisis | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
affecting his renegotiation? Since January 2015, nearly 1.1 | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
million migrants have arrived in Europe, the vast | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
majority coming by sea. The International Monetary Fund | :28:30. | :28:31. | |
estimates that nearly 4 million migrants will have reached | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
the EU by the end of 2017. Tomorrow, EU interior ministers | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
will discuss a possible suspension of the passport-free Schengen area | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
and the re-introduction of border The EU is also considering tearing | :28:45. | :28:46. | |
up the so-called Dublin Convention and introducing a new dispersal | :28:47. | :28:55. | |
scheme to distribute migrants more It's an extra headache | :28:56. | :28:57. | |
for David Cameron as he seeks to renegotiate the terms | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
of our membership of the EU. The Prime Minister's preferred | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
option is a four-year ban on new EU migrant workers claiming | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
in-work benefits. But that's unlikely to satisfy many | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
Conservative backbenchers. Former Cabinet minister Liam Fox, | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
who has already said he will campaign to leave the EU, | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
said yesterday that he "didn't expect a British prime minister | :29:25. | :29:26. | |
to have to take the political begging bowl around the capitals | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
of Europe just to change our own Over the next three weekends | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
we will be staging three debates Joining me now to discuss | :29:34. | :29:40. | |
immigration and the EU are the Ukip MEP Diane James, who's campaigning | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
for Britain to leave the EU, and the Conservative MP | :29:46. | :29:47. | |
Damian Green, who supports The French prime ministers as the | :29:48. | :30:04. | |
future the EU is in grave danger, so why would we want to stay in it? -- | :30:05. | :30:10. | |
Prime Minister says. It is useful to as, it makes us safer and more | :30:11. | :30:13. | |
secure and more prosperous and therefore it is worth saving, from | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
our perspective and to the other member countries. Why does it make | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
us more secure? The way that we cooperate with other European | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
countries, the European institutions, things like the | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
European arrest warrant, data share, these are very useful to our police | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
and security services. We share data with the United States, as well. But | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
not on the same automatic basis as we do with Europe. There is | :30:40. | :30:45. | |
automatic sharing of intelligence between Britain and the United | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
States. There is can we have a separate treaty with them, it is not | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
as automatic and quick. -- there is, we have a separate treaty. We can | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
change information within minutes with other European countries, and | :30:58. | :31:05. | |
it takes days and weeks with other countries, and that means in cases | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
of terrorism and sadly we live in a dangerous world, with global | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
terrorism, that kind of European cooperation is increasingly | :31:16. | :31:23. | |
important. Diane, we face a migration crisis, what is your | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
solution, to turn Britain into a fortress Britain? No, it isn't, but | :31:27. | :31:33. | |
it is to regain border control for the United Kingdom, and that is a | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
position endorsed by a number of countries, and number of member | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
states across the EU, you have five countries which every imposed border | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
controls to some extent. There is still free movement of people. | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
France said last week they will extend their border control, their | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
passport control as an emergency measure because of the terrorist | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
attacks in Paris. Border control is needed because under the current | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
system freedom of movement, people, services, transport, that also means | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
freedom of movement for terrorists and weapons, that come from the | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
Balkan states. We don't have border controls? Yes, but not sufficient, | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
if someone comes in from the Mediterranean states or from the | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
Balkan states, they have gained entry into the European member zone. | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
They can't then move around. If they get their passport, ultimately... | :32:26. | :32:33. | |
That can take ten years. It is five years in Germany, it can be granted | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
sooner if the Dublin agreement is changed and asylum seekers get a | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
faster processing, they can then come to the United Kingdom. It | :32:42. | :32:51. | |
faster processing, they can then things that Niger Farage was saying | :32:52. | :32:54. | |
about the scenes in Cologne, that was wrong. -- Nigel. The out | :32:55. | :33:02. | |
campaign is saying that border controls are what we need, strong | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
border controls, and pulling out of Europe would have the practical | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
effect, our border controls which act have a, thanks to the treaty | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
with the French government, they would certainly come back to Dover | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
-- our border controls which we have at Calais. Migrants would find it | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
much easier to get to this country and claim asylum here. But if they | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
couldn't get in, they did not qualify, we would have the power to | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
deport them? We were, after a legal process, but they would be stopped | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
not at Calais, it would be at Dover, when they are in Britain, and once | :33:38. | :33:41. | |
they are here they can claim asylum and because we have proper legal | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
processes it takes a lot of time and expense to deal with that. He has | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
all the accused me of getting my facts wrong, but he has got his | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
facts wrong. The agreement in terms of stationing our teams and our | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
support staff and control, in the French ports, that is a France UK | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
agreement, it has nothing to do with the European Union. If you are | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
suggesting that the agreement between France and the United | :34:06. | :34:12. | |
Kingdom gets torn up because we leave the EU, that is fanciful and | :34:13. | :34:14. | |
misleading and I don't agree with you. France signed the treatment | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
with us as a fellow member of the EU and the French interior minister has | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
said that they would look at the treaty, of course it would be at | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
risk, do you think the people of Calais want that camp on their | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
doorstep? Of course not. The French are doing us a favour. How would the | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
renegotiation by the Prime Minister help address any of this? The area | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
of renegotiation and this is about the extra pull factor that comes | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
from the perception that the British benefits system is easier to access | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
compared with other countries, and therefore there are people coming | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
here simply to make the benefits system and I think what many people | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
think about immigration, they are moral axed about people coming here | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
to work and pay taxes but they don't like people coming to use the | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
welfare system -- they are more relaxed. But it has been said this | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
will not have a big impact, you might marginalise one pull factor, | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
but with rises in the national minimum wage, you have increased the | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
pull factor on the other hand. It's a boiler fairness, that is what -- | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
that is a boiler fairness, that is what people want... It is unlikely | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
to have a big impact. This will have very little impact on the numbers. I | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
think people can make a distinction between those who are coming here to | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
work, who benefit our economy and benefit all of us. But we have | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
agreed it is unlikely, even if it is fair, it is unlikely to have any | :35:53. | :35:54. | |
impact on the numbers. We don't know. The OBR has had a good guess. | :35:55. | :36:02. | |
They are guessing, it is a guess. Nigel Farage said he would cut | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
immigration even if that meant lower economic growth, do you agree? There | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
are two parts to your question, George Osborne has predicated his | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
fiscal strategy on high numbers of immigration, but we have done this | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
on individuals who come here on a points system to deliver real value | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
to this country, who are not subsidised by the tax credit option | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
and who actually meet the needs that we have in the United Kingdom, and | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
currently, as we know, we want engineers and medics and nurses and | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
lawyers. Ukip strategy has never been to stop those individuals | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
coming, but what we are saying, the impact of low skilled immigration on | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
this country is negative. That is our position. Even if it meant slow | :36:52. | :36:57. | |
economic growth, you would still cut the numbers? It would not mean | :36:58. | :37:04. | |
slower economic growth. We have made our position very clear in terms of | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
the value of the money that we would not be paying in terms of membership | :37:08. | :37:14. | |
of the EU, coming back to the United Kingdom's economy, and balancing the | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
whole position, that would be a positive for us as a country. The | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
Prime Minister has refused to leave a group of 40 Eurosceptic | :37:23. | :37:28. | |
backbenchers in the Conservative Party, who want to asking to do much | :37:29. | :37:33. | |
more. Should he not make them? The Prime Minister meets backbenchers | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
all the time. He has not meant this group, they wrote to him in November | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
and he has not met them. -- he has not met this group. Anyone who would | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
like to meet the Prime Minister has ample opportunities to do so, I'm a | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
backbencher, I can speak to the Prime Minister, and all of these | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
points have been raised. It is possible that this story is slightly | :37:55. | :37:59. | |
overblown. Thank you very much. We will be coming back to these stories | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
in the weeks ahead. And next week we'll be debating | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
the economic effects of leaving It's just gone 11.35, | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Coming up here in 20 | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
minutes, the Week Ahead. First though, the Sunday | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
Politics where you are. Coming up shortly, three and a half | :38:19. | :38:33. | |
months out, Zac Goldsmith has done a formal launch of his mayoral | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
campaign with a 4-point action plan, he will be here to chat about that | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
in a moment. Also joining this week, David Lambie, the MP who helped he | :38:43. | :38:49. | |
would be Labour's man from London -- David Lammy who hoped. You are | :38:50. | :38:57. | |
trying to improve suburban rail services for London. The creation of | :38:58. | :39:03. | |
what will be called a London suburban Metro service, with more | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
frequent services, more reliable trains, and better interchanges and | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
increase capacity, I sound like a press release, but you would welcome | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
this question not the old North London line which is running better, | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
even though there are still delays, but the integration with the | :39:23. | :39:24. | |
Underground network has improved, and there are swathes of North | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
London and stations like Canning Street, bits of Clapham Junction, | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
that need to be part of the wider Greater London we know. Which we | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
make into this Orange branded overground line. If it is all | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
Orange, you cannot distinguish one line from the next! But what you | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
need is integration so you can usual Oyster card across this, and there | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
can be horrendous delays, especially in the south, and fix the sense of | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
London as Greater London and not just in London. You would welcome | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
this? Huge costs involved. Huge complexity about how you get more | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
services on these lines without disrupting the ones who are coming | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
in from wider outside London. Absolutely, we would really benefit, | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
we have a number of suburban services and also services coming | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
from the south coast. We have massive problems with overcrowding | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
and with insufficiency of services, and there will be issues with how | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
the contract for TFL actually works with whoever wins the franchise for | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
the south-western service, and we might be one of the first areas to | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
benefit. This is just a consultation, before we start | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
running away with this, this only affects a limited number of lines, | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
not lines which are starting in Brighton, just the inner services. | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
Precisely, but they are used by a lot of people and there will be a | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
lot of support for this. David was talking about previous campaigns, | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
and there is a lot of support for this. Now we can move on. Boris | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
Johnson's mayoralty is like a washing machine entering its final | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
spin cycle, and attention turns to who will succeed him, Zac Goldsmith | :41:09. | :41:14. | |
is behind Sadiq Khan of Labour according to the little available | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
polling so far, but this week he held a formal launch of his action | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
plan from London. Behind in the polls but taking the fight to | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
Labour, that was the message from Zac Goldsmith's policy launch this | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
week. I'm launching my action plan from London, more homes, better | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
transport, cleaner air, safer streets, this is what I will deliver | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
if I'm elected in May, no doubt. He says he wants to double | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
house-building to 50,000 new homes and year, increase capacity on the | :41:46. | :41:48. | |
transport network and the number green spaces in London, and keeping | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
officers on the street. -- new homes year. Labour were quick to | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
criticise, saying the launch was thin on Peter, making no mention of | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
the number of affordable homes or social housing he would build, and | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
containing no detail about rising transport fares -- thin on detail. | :42:08. | :42:13. | |
The difference between myself and my rival, I can deliver, I can hold the | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
government to account and get a good deal on the government, like shown I | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
can do that. He says by working with his Conservative colleagues he has | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
managed to secure changes to government policy already, meaning | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
every high-value council home sold under the new right to buy will be | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
replaced by two new affordable homes. And a commitment that all | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
trials but the London services will need half of trade union members to | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
vote for industrial action before a striking go-ahead. -- all trials but | :42:42. | :42:50. | |
the London services. -- transport for London services. This is | :42:51. | :42:56. | |
posturing. We have returned a ballot result of 93% from 83% turnout, | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
twice the dress shall they are setting out, and so it Zac Goldsmith | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
would like to be taken seriously as a candidate, you should be thinking | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
about how to improve industrial nations, not just posturing for | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
political sound bites. -- twice the threshold by setting. Both Labour | :43:13. | :43:21. | |
and Conservatives are accused of making this campaign about | :43:22. | :43:23. | |
personalities and not policy. In what some have said is a campaign | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
short on new ideas. Zac Goldsmith is here. One new idea that did, from | :43:31. | :43:37. | |
what you said, this week, the idea of banning foreigners, that is what | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
the headline was, that you would offer to sell properties built on | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
public land in London, to Londoners first. Family properties can you do? | :43:47. | :43:56. | |
-- how many. In all? Yes. We need about 50,000 a year. We think on TFL | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
land, the Laing commission has not reported yet, we do not know how | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
much land there is at the moment -- the land commission. If you put all | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
the TFL land together it will be the equivalent of the Borough of Camden, | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
we think, and the figure we have been given is 15,000 a year on | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
mayoral land. Not 50,000, as was reported by some newspapers. Yes, I | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
saw that. You seems to endorse that. 50,000 homes we need each year. On | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
this public land, you have a pretty good idea? We are talking about TFL | :44:33. | :44:39. | |
land, not GLA. TFL planned, they say they can build 10,000 homes in ten | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
years, Zac Goldsmith says he can do 15,000 on this home in four years. | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
That is based on all kinds of assumptions which I challenge, we | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
could extend the Sutton trembling, to deliver 20,000 homes, but the | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
money is not their -- the Sutton tram link. You could extend that | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
line in four years? We could borrow against future property taxes, that | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
is why I took the Chancellor to Sutton to make this case, I cannot | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
say that we have one Zeidan, but he came to hear the wings, to hear the | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
case, and that is a very good sign -- I cannot say we have won the hard | :45:16. | :45:17. | |
men. Very ambitious. If it wasn't difficult, it would | :45:18. | :45:32. | |
have already been done. Are these all going to be to buy? There will | :45:33. | :45:40. | |
be a mixture. You will need to have two rent there as well. I said on my | :45:41. | :45:47. | |
list of priorities that you need to have affordable, market, | :45:48. | :45:53. | |
intermediate and in each of those categories for sale and for rent. | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
Are you saying it should be for people who have lived and worked in | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
London for three years? What's the deal? All of the details of this | :46:02. | :46:08. | |
will emerge in the manifesto? Have they been worked out? Mostly worked | :46:09. | :46:16. | |
out. For example pocket homes are sold to Londoners, this was a | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
condition imposed by some of the boroughs in which they operate so | :46:21. | :46:27. | |
for Ealing residents they are selling for around ?150,000 without | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
subsidy. In Camden they are around ?240,000. For people who can show | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
they have been resident here for three years. Not working as well? | :46:39. | :46:50. | |
Yes, for three years. Not necessarily working as well? We | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
haven't briefed any details because we will release them in the | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
manifesto. There's no point using up valuable public land building homes, | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
then having them bought by... Presumably EU citizens could apply | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
for this? Yes. Presumably a Chinese millionaire whose daughter is | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
working here as a chemist. We are trying to prevent a situation where | :47:21. | :47:23. | |
a valuable public assets are developed, the homes are built on | :47:24. | :47:31. | |
board by overseas investors. It may be an exaggerated political concern | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
in some quarters but it is causing massive resentment across London. | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
Boris Johnson says there is no real problem, it involves a tiny | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
percentage. We don't have the figures on that. I don't agree it is | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
not a problem, I think it is a problem, and a cause of real | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
resentment. In surgery I had someone earning more than double the average | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
London salary, moving out of London because he cannot afford a home. | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
That is a crisis. In your last year you will be able to be building | :48:06. | :48:13. | |
50,000 homes where about half of that, you say a significant number | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
will be affordable rent. What is your minimum target? I think the | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
Olympic Park is a good indication, a Labour-controlled council. Over | :48:27. | :48:29. | |
10,000 homes have been built and it is based on the criteria for a third | :48:30. | :48:37. | |
affordable, the third intermediate, and a third market. So that will be | :48:38. | :48:45. | |
your model? It is a model but I'm nervous of targets because they | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
don't work. Ken Livingstone, I'm going to make a political point, it | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
made ambitious targets around affordability, didn't get close to | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
meeting them, Boris Johnson made no targets... There is an assumption | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
that 25% at least should be affordable. Give me a commitment on | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
what percentage you would guarantee would be for affordable rent. I'm | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
not going to give a commitment. Or and aspirations. The Olympic Park is | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
a model that works. The entire emphasis of my focus on housing will | :49:24. | :49:28. | |
be to deal with this issue of affordability, where Londoners on | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
average salaries cannot afford to live in their own city. That is a | :49:32. | :49:37. | |
social and business crisis, so the entire emphasis on my housing | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
programme will be to enable Londoners... The point you made on | :49:45. | :49:52. | |
Tuesday, you made again today, is that you are the person through | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
persuasion and cooperation with the Government, you can persuade the | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
Government to deliver on really important things on housing, three | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
of them. You have said you will get two properties built for one that | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
gets sold off under these rights to buy plans. You haven't got a | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
commitment they will be rented, you haven't got a commitment. The money | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
raised from the sale of properties will stay in London. These are the | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
crucial areas and you haven't persuaded anyone. If you're asking | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
me to justify the entire housing bill, I'm not going to do that. I | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
want to knock that Bill into shape so it works for London. But you | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
haven't done that. They want a guaranteed before we go to the polls | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
that if you keep that money in London and you get those two | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
properties, they are for rent and in the same area as the one they lost. | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
It is not a perfect bill but I have massively improved it for London. | :50:53. | :51:00. | |
Even organisations like Shelter will say so, even organisations that are | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
massively unhappy with the bill. I have assured that the money will not | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
be siphoned away to the disadvantage of London. We keep 7% of our taxes, | :51:10. | :51:19. | |
but in this instance it means we have a guarantee now. It is a | :51:20. | :51:23. | |
guarantee that every high-value council homes sold will bring two | :51:24. | :51:33. | |
affordable homes being built. It doesn't amount to much. How is Zac | :51:34. | :51:46. | |
defining affordability? How many houses? Do you believe in social | :51:47. | :51:51. | |
houses? Why have you extended right to buy? These are the big questions | :51:52. | :51:58. | |
and you are not answering them. Social housing is of course an | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
extraordinarily part of London's housing mix, and on average across | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
London nearly a third of our homes are social houses. The reality is | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
the constituent I met this morning earning over the average salary will | :52:12. | :52:23. | |
not be able to afford houses. So over the next four years your | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
emphasis will be very much on houses to sell. Affordability is absolutely | :52:27. | :52:35. | |
crucial. But you are not giving any assurances about social rented. If | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
you are going to reduce this argument down to market versus | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
social, you will miss out the majority of people in the middle. | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
When viewers hear you say affordable, they want to know what | :52:51. | :52:54. | |
you mean by that and you are not defining it. They want to know | :52:55. | :52:58. | |
genuinely how you will build and where you will get the money. Sadiq | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
Khan said he will get a bond issued. Where is the money coming from? | :53:04. | :53:15. | |
James and I part represent Kingston. If you put a 20% discount on one of | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
those homes they are not affordable. The legal definition is the one you | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
have just given but I don't believe you can have a legal definition that | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
is meaningful for Londoners because London is too diverse. I gave an | :53:28. | :53:35. | |
example of pocket homes. The 20% discount in one area will be | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
meaningful, in another area it won't. What do you want in your neck | :53:39. | :53:44. | |
of the woods? Do you want to see the emphasis shift towards that | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
ownership? Are you not at all concerned about how little emphasis | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
there might be on affordable or social rented housing? I don't think | :53:55. | :54:04. | |
there is a lack of concern. In Kingston, the biggest issue is | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
housing. Our authority is building more housing. It is building housing | :54:08. | :54:18. | |
at 40% of the market rate? Yes, and they have plans for a scheme that | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
will involve making our current state higher density with higher | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
quality homes. Are you concerned spare bits of land will be used for | :54:27. | :54:32. | |
starter homes? Local authorities will be hamstrung in getting money | :54:33. | :54:43. | |
for affordable homes? I know people whose kids are desperate for starter | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
homes, it is important we have them, it is about a mix of affordable to | :54:48. | :54:54. | |
buy and affordable to rent. Where are you, what kind of commitment? We | :54:55. | :55:01. | |
had a Conservative MP here last week who said what -- to listen out to | :55:02. | :55:16. | |
you for a statement on fares. I know that I face an election in 13 or 14 | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
weeks' time and a lot of people would like to hear me say I will cut | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
the cost of travel, but I know that if I were to make that pledge either | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
I would break it if I got elected or it would be catastrophic for London | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
if I didn't break it. We have been talking about housing but the only | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
way we will be able to deliver the housing solution is by unlocking | :55:40. | :55:45. | |
land... Which is why I'm wondering if you will let people know, we need | :55:46. | :55:52. | |
to expect realistically... Realistically we cannot expect fares | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
to stay where they are. Can we expect them to go up by a rate above | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
inflation? We haven't been through the figures of course, which is why | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
I'm resisting making a pledge. Sadiq Khan has not been through the | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
figures either. I don't believe any of the other candidates have had | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
access, let alone had time to go through the figures. I'm not making | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
a pledge because it is not an honest thing to do. I have not met the | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
Labour figure in London who believes it is possible to freeze fares as | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
Sadiq Khan has promised he would. We will be speaking to him next week | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
and we will try to establish that. ?2 billion out of the budget, so | :56:34. | :56:40. | |
what will you then not do? Is it the overground to Barking, is it the | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
night tube? Why aren't you saying to government you cannot afford to take | :56:45. | :56:51. | |
something out? You work within the envelope set by government. I | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
thought you were independent, I thought you would stand up and be | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
awkward. My job is to make sure it is as big an envelope as possible. I | :57:02. | :57:08. | |
have protected the police budget... Very briefly because everyone is | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
talking about the possibility of the European referendum being in June. | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
Everyone knows you are Eurosceptic, but what do you say? Do you have a | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
view about the timing of that? Because you need to get people | :57:23. | :57:30. | |
focused on your contest? London faces a massive decision in May. We | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
boomed for eight years under Boris but people are priced out of their | :57:36. | :57:39. | |
own city. Do we want to make those successes work for everyone in | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
London or make a big risk? That will be my focus. And when you take it to | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
London we hope you will come back and take it to our viewers. | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
Come back between now and May. So, what else has been happening in the | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
political sphere? Here is what, in 60 seconds. | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
?20 million will be spent on giving Muslim women who cannot speak | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
English the chance to learn the language. The aim, the Government | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
claims, is to create a more cohesive society and counter extremism. | :58:17. | :58:17. | |
London colleges say society and counter extremism. | :58:18. | :58:26. | |
million and new money is just replacing what has been lost. | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
Transport for London has rejected proposals that would have severely | :58:32. | :58:38. | |
restricted Uber. The private hire company has proposed a ban on apps | :58:39. | :58:45. | |
being able to show where their nearby vehicles were. | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
According to the office for National Statistics, overall crime in London | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
is up 5% on violent crime and sexual offences have risen by over 20% in | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
the capital in the 12 months recorded to September 20 15. Gun | :58:59. | :59:11. | |
crime in London is up 10%. David, Muslim women, help with their | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
language skills, what do you think? It is an old issue. We had great | :59:17. | :59:23. | |
funding under Labour, they were cut savagely, they don't exist any more | :59:24. | :59:28. | |
across London and the country. Worse than that, they have cut the FE | :59:29. | :59:35. | |
budget by half in some constituencies so to talk about | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
giving Muslim women in English when all of the money has disappeared, | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
but also when you are not demonstrating you understand the | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
complexities of these women, many of whom speak wonderful English in | :59:47. | :59:50. | |
fact, I think is degrading, patronising and just dishonest. Do | :59:51. | :59:58. | |
you feel that as well? Not at all, I think it is a positive announcement. | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
It is a shame David does not back the additional funding for English | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
language teaching which is really important for social integration. A | :00:07. | :00:21. | |
quick word on Uber, are you a fan? I normally take the train, but I think | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
you need both really. Black Caps are great for me when hail one in | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
somewhere like Kingston, Uber will be generally more convenient. Black | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
Caps are iconic, we wouldn't want to see them go. Uber have filled an | :00:37. | :00:45. | |
important gap in the market. They don't pay any tax in this country. I | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
don't know if that is true or not so I can't count to you. We are seeing | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
many black cab companies disappearing. I don't buy a complete | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
deregulated market. We should be very concerned that TfL's small | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
attempts to rein this back have been undermined this week. | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
Thank you. We are hoping next week we will have Sadiq Khan, Labour's | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
candidate in the hot seat, until then, back to you, Andrew. | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
Can David Cameron keep his party together in the run-up | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
Will the SNP stymie the PM's plans for a summer vote? | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
And who will go along to John McDonnell's economics roadshow? | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
Nick, Damian Green downplayed the 40 Eurosceptics who have written to the | :01:36. | :01:51. | |
Prime Minister, asking for a meeting. Is he right? Is there a | :01:52. | :01:59. | |
serious division for the Tories? It was a very diplomatic response from | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
Damian Green, but what Downing Street would say about the letter | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
from John Barron, what is the point of meeting him and his 40 merry | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
friends, because I want to get Britain out and they have always | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
wanted to do so and the demands they are tabling in that letter, to have | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
primacy of the UK Parliament over EU law is not in the negotiation and is | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
not going to happen, but there is a port in point. David Cameron was | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
dismissive of John Barron in the House of Commons and he needs to | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
maybe occasionally show a bit more charm and listening to those kind of | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
people. -- important point. They are on the other side of the prime | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
Minster, but he has got to manage the process carefully and he needs | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
to avoid a civil war, and he can avoid that if all sides are | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
respected in this debate. Presumably the 40 that signed our hard-core | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
Eurosceptic but there are more Eurosceptics. Even if David Cameron | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
gets all of what he is asking for, how many Conservative MPs will still | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
want to come out? Going back to the John Barenboim, the 40 that have | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
signed that letter, Downing Street have put them to one side -- John | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
Barron point. The battle for the party, what do you do with those, | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
maybe a third of the party, that would be minded to leave, maybe | :03:19. | :03:28. | |
100-100 and 50 MPs, George Osborne was talking about emergency brakes | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
on legislation, if things are coming through from Brussels which the | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
British don't want. They still think that the negotiation really is in | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
play and what we have to do is try and pick off moderate Eurosceptics | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
and give them a package which they can get behind and then we need to | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
accept that there will be 40 hard-core people that we could never | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
placate. In the David Cameron nightmare, that is the potential | :03:56. | :03:59. | |
backdrop to the referendum, the French Prime Minister has said | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
Europe is in grave danger and we have had President task of the | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
council say that we have only got a couple of months to sort out the | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
immigration issue -- Donald Tusk. The Dutch Prime Minister has given | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
warnings, as well. If there's a sense that Europe is falling | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
especially regarding migration, Schengen is swept away, as it might | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
be tomorrow, that is not a way to win a referendum. It is a huge | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
advantage for the Brexit campaign and it distinguishes them from their | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
predecessors of 20 years ago, leaving the EU back then was seen as | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
a pessimistic thing to do, but now you can almost support Brexit | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
because you think, why chain yourself to a continent which is | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
losing, when there's so much dynamism in the world elsewhere? The | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
characteristic of the Brexit campaign is the challenge David | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
Cameron has got to summer, it cannot say they are entirely insular any | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
more. -- has got to surmount. I thought the internal Tory problem | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
with the explosive, if not a big split, but like a rolling crisis | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
from the 1990s, but I no longer think that is true, the fact they | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
know they can expect to be in government until at least 2025, they | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
can maintain basic adhesion because of the weakness of the Labour Party | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
and that is a contrast with the 90s -- basic cohesion. Cameron will look | :05:24. | :05:30. | |
like he is losing control, but there will not be anything existential | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
going on for the party. We believe the government is anxious to get it | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
out of the way by the end of June, may be the first week of July. | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
Nicola Sturgeon said some interesting things on the Andrew | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
Marr show, about the timetable for the referendum. We had a negative | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
feeling campaign from the no campaign and they almost lost, in | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
the referendum for Europe, the campaigns are much closer to start | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
with, and if the in campaign falls into the trap of the no campaign I | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
fear it will lose. Nicola Sturgeon has said that she does not want a | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
June referendum and she feels that is too soon. You can say, that is | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
the view of the First Minister, she doesn't have a vote in parliament, | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
but it have more significance. I was briefed last week by senior Scottish | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
Nationalist who said this, "Many conservatives will not want a June | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
referendum and the risk epics want more time to layout their case -- | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
Eurosceptics want more time to layout their case". The Scottish | :06:42. | :06:51. | |
Nationalists will not help to vote by voting for a June referendum. The | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
SNP could try and turn this into a vote in the house and then it | :06:58. | :06:59. | |
depends on what Labour do, do they want to have it in June or later? I | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
think the Eurosceptics are so focused on trying to get this | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
referendum through, I don't think them as long as they feel they have | :07:10. | :07:16. | |
the campaign in time that they want, the four-month period, I think they | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
will go for it. I'm not sure that is true. Given the divisions in the | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
Eurosceptics side at the moment, and the out campaign, I think they need | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
longer to get there ducks in a row and they feel the best time for them | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
to fight is after there has been another major migration crisis in | :07:36. | :07:43. | |
the summer, people will not on their side of the ardent when that | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
happens. That might be true. -- of the argument. But they cannot argue | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
for a delay in some ways, but I do feel that Nicola Sturgeon's | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
intervention is significant and the pressure on the Prime Minister to | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
listen to what she is saying, will not so much come in parliament, it | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
could come from the electoral commission, which has already said | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
they cannot have the referendum in May as the same time as the devolved | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
elections, and if you have Nicola Sturgeon, Arlene Foster, the First | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
Minister of Northern Ireland, and Karen Jones can be First Minister of | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
Wales Coulibaly said they think this is over complicating -- First | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
Minister of Wales, if they all said they think this is over, catering, | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
because it would happen at the same time as the devolved elections -- if | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
they all said this is overcompensated. That would be | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
significant, we could be bouncing into September. They have said they | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
do not want the overlap, there should be a clear gap between the | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
referendum campaign and the local elections, the assembly come and the | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
Parliamentary elections in Scotland. They have a low view of the ability | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
of the electorate to distinguish between elections, I do think | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
Nicolas -- Nicola Sturgeon is an obstacle, but the biggest obstacle | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
will be David Cameron and what he can get from the EU. You don't think | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
it will be a done deal pretty much they are putting a lot of weight | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
white -- you don't think it will be a done deal? They are putting a lot | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
of weight on one summit, but the next summit that matters, it only | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
takes one delay for us to move beyond June and then into September. | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
I thought 2017 would be more likely, I have slightly revised that view, | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
but I don't think June is possible. We have leave, and several out | :09:43. | :09:51. | |
campaigns, and we have got one which is called grassroots out. Liam Fox, | :09:52. | :10:01. | |
Conservative, Nigel Farage, Kate Hoey from Labour was there, it was | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
launched yesterday. At some stage they have got to consult them if | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
they want to be serious and marshal their resources, they have got to | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
have a single campaign? And by law they have got through, the electoral | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
commission is going to have two designate a campaign on either side. | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
It is pretty clear that the inside are coalescing around the Britain | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
stronger in Europe group, but on the outside there is not that agreement | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
and there is feuding between these groups and they're going to have to | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
reach agreement. The problem they have, who is going to lead them? | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
Nigel Lawson is a key figure and he says they will get a senior Cabinet | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
minister, but I said the most senior Cabinet minister who will go for | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
Brexit, in Duncan Smith, do his own thing, which leaves you with Chris | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
Grayling -- Iain Duncan Smith. And also Theresa Villiers. They will go | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
up against the leader of the in campaign who is someone called David | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
Cameron, and so they really do need to get unity. Vote Labour say they | :11:07. | :11:14. | |
are more grown-up, -- vote leave say they are more grown-up, for example. | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
Some are said to me the other day that Chris Grayling's view is that | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
many senior figures in the party should be voices. In other words he | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
was suggesting he did not want to leave and they would not be one | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
senior Cabinet minister that was going to champion it which gives | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
them another problem. The organisational, factional | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
differences make much less difference in who you have as your | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
voice, it could be a very prominent businessperson, for example, the | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
head of a major company. Who knows how to bend opinion. That is not | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
true of many business people. They could talk about the economic risk. | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
The state in campaign was launched by Stuart Rose. And it was a | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
disaster. It was a disastrous launch will stop you going to John | :12:08. | :12:17. | |
McDonnell's economic seminar? I'm washing my hair. He was to get out | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
of the -- he says he would like to get out of the Westminster bubble, | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
he has only got to the West End, but he has got out there. You don't want | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
to come? There are many people worried about Jeremy Corbyn's | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
leadership in the Labour Party, but they are encouraged about the | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
seminars, the economics panel, he has got an incredibly serious group | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
of people, is opening up these seminars and they are encouraged. | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
There was a good piece in the Sunday Times about whether there is a good | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
deal with Google and whether this is such a good deal for the British | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
taxpayer. I can feel I'm going to be on my own. Anyway, it has sold out, | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
there is no room for you. Jo Coburn will be back | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
with the Daily Politics And I'll be back here on BBC One | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
next Sunday Remember - if it's Sunday, | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:19. | :13:29. |