Browse content similar to 13/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks, and welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
begins a new drive urging Scots to support what she calls | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
"the beautiful dream" of independence. | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
Tough talk from George Osborne ahead of his Budget on Wednesday. | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
The Chancellor wants us to live within our means. | :00:52. | :00:53. | |
Fighting talk too, from the man in his shadow. | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
John McDonnell wants to revive Labour's economic credibility. | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
And does Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party have a problem | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
Labour students at Oxford are already being investigated | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
and now party students at another university will also face scrutiny. | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
Could Brexit cost the capital billions of pounds in infrastructure | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
And with me three Fleet Street journos, living the dream. | :01:22. | :01:34. | |
Nick Watt, Julia Harley-Brewer and Tim Shipman. | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
For the rest of us, it is a bit of a nightmare! | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
So, four months ago, George Osborne sounded upbeat | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
Writing in the Sun on Sunday, ahead of Wednesday's Budget, | :01:48. | :01:52. | |
the Chancellor says the world is facing its most uncertain period | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
He says Britain has to act now, rather than pay later, | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
Let's listen to the Chancellor on the Marr Show a little earlier. | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
I think the world is a much more difficult and dangerous place. | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
My message in this Budget is that the world is a more | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
uncertain place than at any time since the financial crisis. | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
We need to act now so we don't pay later. | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
That is why we need to find additional savings, | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
equivalent to 50p in every ?100 the Government spends by the end | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
We have got to live within our means to stay secure. | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
That is the way we make Britain fit for the future. | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
That was the Chancellor earlier this morning. What did we learn? He is | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
preparing the ground for a very difficult budget. Why is he talking | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
about the difficult global economic circumstances? We have a significant | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
slowdown in China but it helps him in the EU referendum campaign. Why | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
risk leaving the EU when it is difficult economic circumstances? It | :02:56. | :02:58. | |
helps him with a budget. You need to expend why he was talking in the | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
July budget, the Autumn Statement, targeting a 10 billion budget | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
surplus by 2020 and now he will be talking back calories and ?18 | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
billion hole in the size of the economy. Will he be able to meet | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
that surplus? He needs an alibi for that. All the global headwinds, | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
problems in the emerging markets, the slowdown in China, the Eurozone | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
struggling to be overwhelmed. We knew that back in July. Nothing has | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
changed. The thing about George Osborne is he is a politician. It is | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
always about politics. It is not ideal, coming into local elections, | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
London mayoral elections, to be giving a load of cuts to public | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
services and possibly tax rises. The reality is he is always looking at | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
the long game and he does always play a brilliant politicians long | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
game. He is looking to 2020 and does not care. He also plays a bad shot | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
game. Will it be a difficult budget or will it be a steady issues | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
budget? What is striking about back in this morning, at least half of it | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
was about the European Union and not the budget. The rest of it was about | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
the Tory leadership and him taking potshots at Boris Johnson. The | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
subtext of this budget is it has been a difficult and dangerous time | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
for George Osborne and his teacher. He sat there and said, I am not | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
going to sit in this chair and mumble away. Who could he be talking | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
about there? We were told week ago that the subtext of the budget would | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
be the dangers of Brexit and the Tory leadership. It is not the | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
subtext, it is the text. There is hardly anything in it in terms of | :04:49. | :04:57. | |
big stuff. Steady as she goes. Can we just have another shout out for | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
the brilliant headline, genius political strategist clears up mess | :05:01. | :05:07. | |
made by genius political strategist. He may be nursing a little rabbit to | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
surprise as always! Now, if a certain referendum had | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
gone a bit differently, Scotland, would be an independent | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
country in just over ten days' time. Those wanting to leave the UK didn't | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
win that argument in 2014 but that hasn't dented the fortunes | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
of the SNP, who are riding high It's the party's Spring Conference | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
in Glasgow this weekend, and we're joined now | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
from there by the First Minister Good morning. A pleasure to be with | :05:32. | :05:41. | |
you, Andrew. Had the referendum gone your way, we would be ten days from | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
independents. You will be taking a massive and unsustainable ?15 | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
billion budget deficit, 10% of Scottish GDP. What would you be | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
doing to get that down? We would deal with it in the same way the UK | :05:57. | :06:04. | |
dealt with its deficit in 2009/ when they had 2.2% of the GDP. -- 2009/ | :06:05. | :06:13. | |
2010. They will be building on the underlying fundamental strengths of | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
the Scottish economy. Our this goal position has been broadly similar to | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
the rest of the UK and, in some years, better than the rest of the | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
UK. Onshore revenues are growing at a faster rate than the fall in | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
offshore revenues. We have higher employment and faster productivity | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
growth. The economy is fundamentally strong and that would have been a | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
very good basis on which to become an independent country. Did you not | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
oppose most efforts of the British government to get the deficit down? | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
I opposed many measures that George Osborne has taken. I do not say we | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
should not try to get the deficit down. I have opposed and continue to | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
oppose the speed at which it is happening in the way in which it is | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
happening but no one would deny that countries want to get their fiscal | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
positions into a more stable condition and the UK is in right | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
now. The point I'm making is the Scottish economy is fundamentally | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
strong economy. Much of what I have said illustrates that point. Let's | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
look at some of the things you have said. You have said most countries | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
have deficits. Can you name another at Fat economy 80s after the | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
financial crash that has a budget deficit of 10% of GDP. You do not | :07:26. | :07:35. | |
look at just one year full if I go back to that -- two 2008, 2009, it | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
was double that of Scotland. Our this goal position has been stronger | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
but is not right now because of the particular issues. Is it not the | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
case that Scotland's deficit now is the highest in the European Union? | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
That is true, isn't it? In the year we had figures published in this | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
past week, we have a very difficult and challenging set of figures. It | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
is the highest. No country, whether the UK, Scotland or another EU | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
country, makes judgments about that this good strength of that country | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
on the strength of one year's goes. The point I am making is over the | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
past ten years, our fiscal position has been broadly similar to the UK | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
and coming summer beiges, has been significantly better. If you project | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
forward to the next five years, the future is much more important than | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
the past, onshore revenues are likely to Bath the outstrip the | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
decline in offshore revenues. -- basked in the outstrip. The North | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
Sea contains difficulties for those working in the North Sea and | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
economies on the North East of Scotland. The economy of Scotland is | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
fundamentally Scotland. The economy of Scotland is | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
more than one year. You have said it is a snapshot. Without oil revenues, | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
and there are no oil revenues now, without the revenues, Scotland has | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
run a persistent budget deficit of over 10% every year for 13 years. | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
You have a systemic deficit problem. Why should you not look at oil | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
revenues? Oil revenues are there and have been contributing to the | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
Treasury to the tune of ?300 billion. They are not there now. | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
Without them you have run a persistent budget deficit and have | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
done for 13 years. I accept it is the future that matters more than | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
the past. If you look at the projections for the next five years, | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
our onshore revenues, remember more than 90% of the Scottish economy | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
comes from onshore and not offshore. If you look five years ahead, | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
onshore revenues are projected to grow in the region of ?14 billion. | :09:52. | :09:59. | |
That is many times before in offshore revenues in that period. I | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
am not denying the challenge of North Sea and other countries. | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
Norway is facing exactly the same challenge. Because they are better | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
prepared for it and have Stuart did oil resources better, Norway, in the | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
last couple of weeks true down on its massive oil fund. The powers | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
that independence would have given as and we did not vote yes, we have | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
had -- we would have had ability to draw down on that faster. Why are | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
onshore revenues growing less strongly in Scotland than the rest | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
of the UK? That is a long-standing issue. One issue at the heart of | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
that is growth in the heart of London. We are seeing a narrowing in | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
some of the long-standing gap there has been between aspects of the | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
Scottish economy and the UK economy. If we take productivity, for a long | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
time Scotland lags significantly behind the rest of the UK. Over the | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
past years we have close that gap is it that can leave. We still lag | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
behind our European competitors and that is a problem. I am not standing | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
here denying the challenges that the Scottish economy has. In the same | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
way you have been talking about the Chancellor's budget and the same way | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
the UK economy has challenges and across the European Union, they have | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
challenges. There are real strength is in the Scottish economy. The real | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
question should be how we build on and accents are the big strengths. | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
Revenues per person in Scotland where ?10,700 in the years 2011, 20 | :11:39. | :11:46. | |
12. They are now ?10,000, 700 ( even with the growth in revenues. The | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
offshore has offset that. We still have a fundamental deficit problem. | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
I am not denying we have a deficit. The UK has a deficit. Take revenues | :11:57. | :12:04. | |
per head of population, which is what you decided to me there. In the | :12:05. | :12:10. | |
most recent year, our revenues per head of population are broadly | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
similar to the UK. In every one of the past 35 years, revenues per head | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
of population have been higher than the rest of the UK. I accept we have | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
a challenge in the North Sea. I accept that like all oil-producing | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
countries, we have challenges about how we transition away from oil and | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
gas over the years to come, though there is a great deal of attention | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
in the North Sea. These are challenges we should embrace and | :12:37. | :12:38. | |
challenges we should be working out how we face up to and address. | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
Scotland is doing that and we'll do that on the basis of fundamental | :12:44. | :12:50. | |
strengths in our economy. -- will do that. Scotland pays per capita about | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
the same as the UK average. I am talking about the current year. What | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
I am saying is, you cannot judge the economy in one year. It is similar | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
in one year in 34 of the past 35 years and has been higher. That is | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
the point I am making. The reason you are running a deficit, per | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
capita spending is so much higher than in Scotland it is ?1400 higher | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
public spending per person. Westminster that is that build it is | :13:25. | :13:27. | |
the difference between tax revenues and what you spend. -- fits that | :13:28. | :13:36. | |
bill. It is a deficit. The UK is in deficit in Scotland is in deficit. | :13:37. | :13:45. | |
It is twice as big! In 2008, 2009, the UK deficit was twice as big as | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
Scotland it will vary from year to year. In terms of the point about | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
per capita spending, there are very good reasons why someone who knows | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
Scotland well, we have a country where one in five of the population | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
lives in a row and remote community. I was Health Secretary for five | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
years. It cost more to deliver health services on an island or | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
rural community than it does in Glasgow. Westminster pays for that, | :14:13. | :14:19. | |
it makes up the difference. If you are independent you would either | :14:20. | :14:21. | |
have to raise taxes or cut spending. What would it be? By how much would | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
you raise taxes and cut spending? We set a budget in devolved Scotland | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
every year. We make choices, sometimes these are tough choices. | :14:34. | :14:35. | |
If Scotland were independent, we would do that as well. The point I | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
am making, the economy of an independent Scotland would face | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
challenges like other economies do. We're in a fundamentally strong | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
position. Employment is higher than any other UK nation. Productivity is | :14:49. | :14:53. | |
growing faster. We have a number of key strengths in the economy. One of | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
the challenges is how we build on these strengths and get our economy | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
growing faster. We have a number of world leading sectors in our | :15:04. | :15:04. | |
economy. The fact is your deficit was ?15 | :15:05. | :15:15. | |
billion, moving with oil revenues at 2 billion last year. This year oil | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
revenues are reckoned to be at zero so your budget deficit would get | :15:21. | :15:29. | |
even worse. Two cut your deficit to anything like acceptable levels you | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
would have to increase tax to 16% or cut spending by 14% or a combination | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
of the two, what would it be? We would deal with the deficit in the | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
same way the UK is dealing with the deficit and dealt in the deficit -- | :15:46. | :15:54. | |
with the deficit in 2009/ ten. We would be in the same position as | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
many other countries but we would be in a position where we have got a | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
fundamentally strong economy. I wish Scotland have voted yes in 2014, if | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
it had done we would have spent the last almost two years preparing for | :16:10. | :16:16. | |
Scotland becoming independent. In a negotiation around independence, | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
there would have been discussions about assets, liability, the share | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
of defence spending, so that's what would have been the case if we voted | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
for independence. Looking ahead, we have a strong economy and the | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
challenge is how we grow it even faster. You accept surely that you | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
wouldn't be allowed to join the European Union with a 10% deficit, | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
you would have to agree to Brussels programme, correct? We are getting | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
into some ridiculous territory here and one of the most ridiculous | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
arguments. Scotland wouldn't have been out of the EU, we wouldn't have | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
been in the position of an accession state. It is a bit rich for anybody, | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
given where we are right now, with the prospect of being taken out of | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
the EU ahead of us, for scaremongering about the prospects | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
of that. With two weeks to go until independence, instead of increases | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
in public spending which you announced yesterday... They didn't | :17:20. | :17:27. | |
vote yes. But if it had been, you would have been looking at the list | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
of hospitals and schools to close, you would be the austerity party, | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
that's what you would have to do. That's ridiculous. Countries the | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
world over have deficits and deal with them. We would also have been | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
taking on the greater powers to grow our economy, particularly our own | :17:46. | :17:52. | |
short economy. Italy and Greece had 10% deficit and you know the | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
austerity they had to go through. I think this argument starts to tip | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
over into being incredible, we start to compare Scotland, with all of the | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
strength of the Scottish economy, to countries like Greece and Italy. I | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
have spoken about the fundamental strengths of our economy, not least | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
the fact we have had the longest period of economic growth since the | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
devolution. You have said all of that. Yes, we have challenges, but | :18:19. | :18:27. | |
Scotland has a strong economy. Then why do your revenues like you're | :18:28. | :18:36. | |
spending by ?2400 per person? -- lag your spending. We have a deficit | :18:37. | :18:45. | |
like many other countries... Nobody has a deficit like Scotland's. We | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
have a particular issue because of the fall in North Sea revenues. It | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
is an indictment of Westminster mismanagement that unlike Norway, we | :18:56. | :19:03. | |
don't have a massive oil fund to help deal with that. Westminster is | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
paying for your deficit, Westminster is paying for the difference for the | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
rest of the deficit, would you like to thank the rest of the people of | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
the United Kingdom for making up for the deficit you have got? | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
Westminster has a deficit of its own, it is ?1 trillion in debt. That | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
is not the deficit, that is the debt. That is why I said debt, I | :19:27. | :19:34. | |
understand the difference between deficit and debt, but it has | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
accumulated debt of ?1 trillion, it has an annual deficit just like | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
Scotland and many other countries do. It is actually 1.5 trillion, | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
even worse than you think. I was being kind to them, Andrew! You | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
should be kind because they are saving you quite a bit of money! | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
Does Labour have a problem dealing with allegations of anti-semitism? | :19:58. | :19:59. | |
The party is worried enough to have established an inquiry | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
into the Labour Club at Oxford University | :20:03. | :20:03. | |
where there are accusations that members used off-colour language | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
And the Sunday Politics has been told that the investigation | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
will look at new claims from another university. | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
It comes after an activist with controversial views was allowed | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
back into the party then promptly chucked out again last week. | :20:17. | :20:18. | |
Does Jeremy Corbyn's support for causes like the Palestinians | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
or Stop The War mean he's not tough enough when there are allegations | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
It's seen that way by some students at Oxford. | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
Last month the vice-chair of the Labour club there resigned, | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
claiming some members had a problem with Jews and used words like Zio, | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
a nickname for Jewish people that many find offensive. | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
It's now being investigated by the Labour peer Baroness Royle, | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
who is also looking at the wider issue of behaviour in | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
We understand she's now extended her investigation | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
to include students at the London School of Economics. | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
This week, they have been electing a new general secretary | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
One of the candidates, Rayhan Uddin, who's also | :20:57. | :21:03. | |
in the Labour group, has been criticised for some | :21:04. | :21:05. | |
Facebook posts that emerged during the campaign. | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
In one, he talked about leading Zionists wanting to take over | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
the student union to make it right wing and Zio again. | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
Facebook post: of language, writing in another | :21:19. | :21:33. | |
He has been referred to Labour's investigation | :21:34. | :21:35. | |
into student politics by someone who now works for an MP. | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
We've seen the letter they wrote, which said: | :21:40. | :21:49. | |
Because it was an older generation of activists that came up | :21:50. | :21:58. | |
at Prime Minister's Questions this week. | :21:59. | :22:00. | |
I was completely appalled to see yesterday that the Labour Party has | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
readmitted someone to their party who says, and I believe | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
that the 9/11 suicide bombers, and I quote, must never be condemned | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
and belongs to an organisation that says "we defend the Islamic State | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
He was referring to Gerry Downing, who had also blogged | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
about what he called the Jewish question, | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
after being readmitted to the party this week he was resuspended. | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
He reckons it's really a battle between different wings in Labour. | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
You've said there is a conspiracy of people out to get Jeremy Corbyn, | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
Well, Dan Jarvis and these people of course, obviously there's | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
the whole Blairite wing of the party and others, who have been absolutely | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
disgusted at the membership and the left-wing surge | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
in the membership and can't believe what happened. | :22:49. | :23:00. | |
And do you think they are using race and religion as a tool for that? | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
Whereas the Labour MP Wes Streeting says there is a problem | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
I think in certain parts of the British left, | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
there has always been a virulent form of pretty bigoted politics, | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
particularly in terms of anti-Semitism, which has been | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
an issue in some of our university campuses | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
There's also a mentality which I think has been epitomised | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
by the repulsive use of Mr Downing, which is not so much Stop The War | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
People who seem to hate their country more than they hate | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
And we have got to start sending a far stronger message that this | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
is simply not acceptable in the modern Labour Party. | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's supporters, like those in the grass roots | :23:48. | :23:50. | |
campaign group Momentum, say none of this is fair on him. | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
Corbyn comes under the most incredible level of attacks and one | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
of the things that he's attacked for is his long-standing commitment | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
to anti-war, anti-imperialism, peace in the Middle East. | :24:01. | :24:08. | |
And I think that's where some of this comes from. | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
He does absolutely condemn anti-Semitism, he has time | :24:12. | :24:13. | |
There is not a shred of anti-Semitism in his personal | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
make-up, in his moral make-up or in his political make-up. | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
And as for Labour's investigation into anti-Semitism among students, | :24:22. | :24:23. | |
there's no time frame for when it will report. | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
Let's speak now to the Labour MP, John Mann, who's chair | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
of the All-Party Parliamentary Group against Anti-Semitism. | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
He's in Berlin at an Anti-Semitism Conference. | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
Is there an anti-Semitism problem in the Labour Party? Of course, that's | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
why these issues have got attention. It is not a big problem, but a small | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
problem when it comes to racism needs to be dealt with. We have been | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
here before. I can recall 30 years ago when there were extremists | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
trying to ban Jewish societies in some of the universities, and we | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
clamped down on them very hard then and they weren't in the Labour Party | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
but it is the same kind of people, the same ideology. Some of that has | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
crept into the Labour Party and it needs to be removed. Why has it come | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
back? People could write big academic books on why it has | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
re-surged but what we have seen in history is that anti-Semitism never | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
seems to go away. But why in the Labour Party has come back? People | :25:42. | :25:47. | |
have obviously chosen to dissociate with the Labour Party in the growth | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
of membership, some of those people have attitudes that are very | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
outdated and prejudiced. There is no space for them in the Labour Party | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
and the reason that is important is because I am getting young Jewish | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
activists posturing whether the Labour Party is the place for them | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
in terms of their support, their vote and their activity, and we | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
cannot tolerate a situation where any part of society doesn't feel | :26:15. | :26:22. | |
that a major political party like the Labour Party is not the place | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
for them, which is why prompt effective action and vigilance on | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
this is required, including from Jeremy as the leader of the Labour | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
Party. Is the Labour leader doing enough? Or the fact he has talked | :26:35. | :26:43. | |
about his friends, Hamas, Hezbollah, and shared platforms with people who | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
have been very hostile to Israel and so on, is that a disadvantage? Is it | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
encouraging anti-Semitism or is it not relevant? I have met Jeremy | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
recently to discuss anti-Semitism in the Labour Party and it is clear to | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
me that he does not tolerate or support it but what he has to do is | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
follow that free with actions and ensure that others in the Labour | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
Party follow it through with actions because the kind of thing, the | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
atmosphere that is being created in Oxford University is not a one-off. | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
This has been happening elsewhere as well. While these can be seen as | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
small incidents, if you are the young Jewish person who is impacted | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
by it, it is not small for you and it is magnified in the universities, | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
which are pretty tolerant places and rightly so, if there is in tolerance | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
to any particular group and to Jewish students. We are not prepared | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
to have that in the Labour Party, there has got to be action, it has | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
got to be led from the front and it has got to be decisive action. There | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
is no space for these people in the Labour Party or is there space for | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
people in any way excusing their actions. But there is an inquiry | :28:04. | :28:11. | |
into what has been going on at Oxford, but is your party doing | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
enough about this? Because I understand these inquiries may be | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
subsumed into a much bigger inquiry into bullying and so on. What is | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
your feeling? It is action by results. If there is a decisive | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
action, there will be an almighty row which wouldn't be helpful but | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
the idea that those of us who fought over decades, challenging | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
anti-Semitism and other forms of racism, are going to accept other | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
than the highest of standards in our own party, well I can tell you it is | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
going to happen. There are many of us who will only accept absolutely | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
the highest standards. We are not prepared to tolerate any form of | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
anti-Semitism or any excuse for it in the Labour Party or anywhere else | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
in society. But in our own party absolutely not and therefore there | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
has got to be action, words are not good enough. Historically the Labour | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
Party has done well from the Jewish vote. The Jewish vote over time has | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
tended to vote Labour. If this anti-Semitism continues in your | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
party, are you in danger of losing the Jewish vote? We prepared a | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
report ten years ago on a cross-party basis that highlighted | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
anti-Semitism in all of its aspects including from the right but also | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
what was described by some as the new anti-Semitism on the left. It is | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
not new but it had been dormant for a long period of time. People have | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
been accustomed to the Labour Party and that part of the left being | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
highly tolerant to everybody. That has got to happen, you cannot have a | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
progressive party of any substance in politics if it allows any form of | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
intolerance and therefore we are not prepared to have second-class | :30:06. | :30:10. | |
citizens, second-class form of racism allowed in the Labour Party. | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
Anti-Semitism has got to be challenged, including anti-Semitism | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
on the left, and so robustly and put back in the dustbin again. That is | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
my intention in the Labour Party. I am looking forward to Jeremy and the | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
National Executive being decisive, removing the anti-Semites, going | :30:35. | :30:38. | |
into where there is intolerance and explaining what is anti-Semitism and | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
why we are not prepared to have it in our party. Thanks for joining us | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
this morning. Labour's Shadow Chancellor John | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
McDonnell ran Jeremy Corbyn's leadership campaign on a platform | :30:49. | :30:50. | |
fighting not just austerity, Now though, he wants to be | :30:51. | :30:52. | |
the new voice of fiscal responsibility, and says he's | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
going to re-write In a moment we'll be talking | :30:56. | :30:57. | |
to John McDonnell's number two, the Shadow Chief Secretary | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
to the Treasury. But first let's hear | :31:02. | :31:02. | |
what Mr McDonnell had to say It is a wider ambition then just | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
Labour's fiscal credibility. I want to try to restore credibility | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
to economic policy-making generally, not just within the Labour Party | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
but across politics too. We have had too long, | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
for example, the last six years we have had fiscal rules | :31:15. | :31:16. | |
which have not been met, I am trying to encourage | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
a better economic debate. What I have said is quite clearly, | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
when we go back into government, we will eliminate the deficit, | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
reduce debt, and will ensure that is supervised | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
independently by the Office And Labour's Shadow Chief Secretary | :31:32. | :31:33. | |
to the Treasury, Seema Malhotra, Welcome to the Sunday Politics. You | :31:34. | :31:51. | |
would balance current spending with revenue and borrow to invest. How | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
does that differ from Mr Brown and Mr balls? You are right about there | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
being two key parts to the new fiscal credibility were all. In a | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
sense, this builds on very much where we have been before. It also | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
responds to the criticisms that were made of Jaws -- George Osborne's | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
this school charter where he was criticised for tying his own hands | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
and not allowing for investment. -- fiscal charter. There are two key | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
differences. It makes it more explicit, that there should be | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
independent voices. We have said we want the OBR to be an independent | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
voice around deficit reduction targets, and also reporting directly | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
to Parliament. The second area is that we want to make sure there is | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
the opportunity for investment and also, if there are difficult times, | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
like we had in 2009, when monetary policy does not seem to be working, | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
it gives an opportunity for fiscal policy to work alongside. It builds | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
on but has two key differences. Mr Brown defended his rules as well | :33:02. | :33:11. | |
when times got bad. It was described as being austerity light. This must | :33:12. | :33:20. | |
be as well? It has been developed and the reason... It is not about | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
austerity. It is a framework that will allow us to make spending and | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
tax decisions in the future. It responds to the criticisms, the | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
universal criticisms of George Osborne's this dull charter. -- | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
fiscal charter. It says we need to invest for the future. I understand | :33:41. | :33:50. | |
all that. Mr Brown and Mr Balls also wanted to invest and that was | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
criticised by the Shadow Chancellor as austerity light. If that were | :33:55. | :34:04. | |
austerity light, this is steroid to -- night as well. We're in a | :34:05. | :34:05. | |
situation where George -- night as well. We're in a | :34:06. | :34:14. | |
blaming everyone but himself. -- this is austerity light as well. | :34:15. | :34:22. | |
George Osborne's Member of Parliament for the Tory Party has | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
said, what we have seen our warm words. He has talked about | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
investment and an export led strategy. This is built on debts, | :34:31. | :34:38. | |
household debt. How much is public investment? Around 30 billion, if | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
you take into account the difference in spending. It is 34 billion in | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
public spending at the moment. It should be much higher. How much more | :34:51. | :34:56. | |
should it be? It should be higher. There is no excuse for what George | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
Osborne has done. I am not asking about Mr Osborne. I am asking about | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
your policy. 34 billion at the moment, rising to 40 billion by 20 | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
20. How much more would it be? It focuses on where it needs to be | :35:13. | :35:23. | |
regarding GDP. You need to have a good level of investment so you are | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
creating jobs for the future. What I am trying to work out is what this | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
means in hard cash for investment, how big would investment be under a | :35:35. | :35:38. | |
Labour government? It is clear that George Osborne has been cutting | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
investment. It was around 3%, 3.5%, and is now 1.4% in terms of | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
infrastructure. If you want jobs of the future coming through, if you | :35:49. | :35:55. | |
want to turn around the situation where young people... By how much | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
more would public investment increase under this formula? What we | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
have said is you need to make sure that we have a balance of where the | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
economy needs investment so we can get tax receipts and growth for the | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
future. We had economists saying that George Osborne, if you talk | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
about fairness in the future... I am here to talk about the labour policy | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
and not that of George Osborne. Nor has there been balanced growth. If | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
you want a balanced budget, you need to balance growth. Let's talk about | :36:26. | :36:34. | |
labour. John McDonnell has talked about the difference between | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
short-term and long-term investment. What is the difference? What we have | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
said as she want to see investment that will see us having a big stake | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
in the future. If you want to look at energy investment, you are | :36:46. | :36:55. | |
talking out about -- about 20, 30 years. It is about supporting | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
companies, entrepreneurs and supporting the long-term growth for | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
the country as well. If you're talking about rail, roads and | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
infrastructure, you will be aware, I am sure, of the reports that showed | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
recently we have fewer buses than 2010, our rolling stock and trains | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
are in poor condition, people are taking longer to get to work and the | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
trains are more crowded. That should be a wake-up call to George Osborne | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
he is not working in the interests of the British public and people are | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
asking if the decisions are based on political interest and not on the | :37:34. | :37:41. | |
country's future. You would balance current spending, day-to-day | :37:42. | :37:43. | |
spending. At the moment there is a deficit. What would you cut to | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
balance current spending? There are two things. The first is about | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
spending decisions and the second about tax receipts. We are arguing | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
that if you want to see tax receipts grow, George Osborne has seen them | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
for in regard to productivity growth. What would you cut? We would | :38:03. | :38:11. | |
want to see that growth increases in that you see an increase in tax | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
receipts. You cannot spend if it is not within your means. What would | :38:17. | :38:23. | |
you cut? You cannot spend if it is not within your means. What the | :38:24. | :38:25. | |
announcement from the Labour Party is about is how we earn our way in | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
the world and survived in a competitive economy. We will leave | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
it there. Thank you very much. It's just gone 11:35am, | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :38:38. | :38:39. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Coming up here in 20 | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
minutes, the Week Ahead. First though, the Sunday | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
Politics where you are. Could Brexit cost the capital | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
billions of pounds in infrastructure As Labour politicians | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
launch a last ditch attempt to uproot the Garden Bridge, | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
we ask whether this multi-million pound project is a needless drain | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
on the public purse. And, I am joined in | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
the studio by the MPs whose constituencies fall on either | :39:10. | :39:11. | |
side of that bridge. Mark Field, MP for Cities | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
of London and Westminster. Kate Hoey is the Labour | :39:16. | :39:17. | |
MP for Vauxhall. Now, before we take it | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
to the bridge, we are going to dive right into the choppy | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
waters of the EU. That has been a question | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
dominating politics this week. Just 24 hours after condemning | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
pro-EU campaigners for what he described | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
as the scandalous treatment of British Chamber | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
of Commerce director general, John Longworth, | :39:40. | :39:41. | |
the mayor, Boris Johnson, was forced to issue | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
his own apologies, after an e-mail emerged | :39:46. | :39:47. | |
telling his senior staff It is not something | :39:48. | :39:49. | |
I agree with and my staff, my team, have complete | :39:50. | :39:58. | |
freedom to say what they want. Indeed they already are and have | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
been for some days. So, they can campaign | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
for whoever they like? As soon as I saw that thing last | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
night, it ceased to be operative. It is, Mark Field, | :40:12. | :40:19. | |
a convenient mess, isn't it? The message goes out | :40:20. | :40:21. | |
and Boris retains Does he really not know | :40:22. | :40:22. | |
what his chief of staff is doing? No, I would not be a tall | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
fair on Boris on that. I think what it really comes down | :40:28. | :40:34. | |
to is we are so obsessed in the political world | :40:35. | :40:45. | |
by spin, by discipline, that we seem to think that no one | :40:46. | :40:47. | |
should be able to have alternative I think it was Boris playing | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
a little bit to the gallery in relation to the John | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
Longworth situation. I have known John Longworth | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
will sometimes and I think he was getting increasingly | :40:57. | :40:58. | |
uneasy with the idea of, as he saw it, of having to take | :40:59. | :41:00. | |
a neutral view on this issue. I have spoken to John over | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
the last two or three months and it was clear to me | :41:05. | :41:06. | |
he was definitely favouring Brexit, which was at odds | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
with the official line We are talking about | :41:10. | :41:11. | |
people's private lives. It was not just an | :41:12. | :41:13. | |
edict on what should happen in the workplace, | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
it was about people Should anyone ever be gagged | :41:17. | :41:18. | |
in their private lives? That was the clear message | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
in the original e-mail. Boris put it rightly | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
very quickly to touch I take the view on this issue, | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
clearly, the Government has decided we are allowing Cabinet ministers, | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
people sitting around the Cabinet table, taking an entirely different | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
view from the official government line, the line that was taken | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
by civil servants on a day to I think we have a reasonable | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
compromise here. There is a little bit | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
of a storm in a teacup. To be fair to Boris, | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
although I take a different view on this issue than he does, | :41:50. | :41:51. | |
I think he has done the right thing by putting it | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
to touch very quickly. Kate Hoey, should anyone be gagged | :41:55. | :41:56. | |
in this important national debate? I think the referendum is different | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
from general elections in the way At senior level certainly, | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
they shouldn't be getting involved. The Boris being went out | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
with all the details There was a whole big | :42:06. | :42:07. | |
spiel of stuff and, in the end, it was tacked | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
on to the advisers. I am quite sure Boris | :42:12. | :42:13. | |
did not see that. I have been very critical | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
of Boris on lots of things but, in this case, I'm sure | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
he did not want this to happen. This is being decided | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
across party politics, political parties are, | :42:24. | :42:33. | |
on the whole, divided. The public really is going to feel | :42:34. | :42:35. | |
they have the final say. I was one of the so-called | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
81 Tory rebels. Kate and I were in the same voting | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
lobby when it came to the debate in 2011 about the idea | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
of having a referendum. They want information | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
and it is up to them to decide. Boris Johnson refers | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
to the Remain camp, your camp, I think this is a bit | :42:57. | :42:58. | |
of a foolish thing to do, to be honest, to go | :42:59. | :43:05. | |
on about Project Fear. The people who have wanted Britain | :43:06. | :43:07. | |
to be out of the EU have had 40 years to come up with a plan | :43:08. | :43:16. | |
and we still have no real For them to talk about Project Fear | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
highlights the weaknesses There is clearly uncertainty, | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
but there's just as much I think the idea that this | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
is a great leap in the dark, at least if somebody says, | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
we are jumping into a dark pit, we're jumping in with a huge | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
big cushion of money Let's stay talking about money | :43:36. | :43:37. | |
and staying with the European Union. When it comes to investment | :43:38. | :43:46. | |
in the capital and its vast and expensive infrastructure, | :43:47. | :43:48. | |
few institutions have proved as lucrative as the | :43:49. | :43:50. | |
European Investment Bank. With Crossrail, schools, | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
and the M25 expansion among others, all benefiting from | :43:56. | :43:57. | |
the ?7 billion worth of funding invested over | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
the last ten years, could the cost of Brexit be more | :44:02. | :44:12. | |
than the capital can afford? What does this futuristic building | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
in Luxembourg have to do with these That was the headquarters | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
of the European Investment Bank. The rather anonymous institution has | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
lent Croydon Council ?102 million to improve | :44:22. | :44:23. | |
and open new schools. This is one of eight new classrooms | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
that have been built to accommodate The school has been able to double | :44:27. | :44:33. | |
in size due to that loan. We had a vision of what | :44:34. | :44:44. | |
we wanted to do with the school which we couldn't afford | :44:45. | :44:51. | |
as a school standing on our own, and having this work done and having | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
the work paid for through Croydon has allowed us now | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
to do additional work. And Croydon Council says it was over | :44:59. | :45:00. | |
?7.5 million cheaper to borrow from the European Investment Bank | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
than taking the usual local The European investment bank enabled | :45:05. | :45:06. | |
us to get a lower rate of interest, it meant we can deliver the school | :45:07. | :45:14. | |
places that we need for the children establishments whilst not | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
putting an undue burden Loans from the European investment | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
bank have also helped fund a range of transport projects | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
in the capital, including the mayor's cycle superhighways, | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
Heathrow terminal five, the widening of the M25, | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
and a ?1.5 billion loan The Liberal Democrat | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
mayoral candidate believes it is an important source of finance | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
for London that could be lost The European investment | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
bank is cheap borrowing for London's infrastructure | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
and we have seen billions of pounds over recent years | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
to help London keep growing and moving so it is really | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
important for London to have access If we leave the European Union, | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
all I can see is that our costs The European investment | :46:01. | :46:07. | |
bank is owned by The UK Government owns a 16% | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
share, the same as France Over the last decade it has provided | :46:11. | :46:15. | |
over ?7 billion of investment for London, amounting to roughly 7% | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
of capital spending in London Those that support leaving | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
the EU argue that if London no longer have access | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
to the European investment bank, All these projects could perfectly | :46:32. | :46:33. | |
well have been financed elsewhere and the test of that | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
is that the European Investment Bank in its charter has | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
got to make loans So these are not soft loans or | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
subsidised loans. They can always be provided | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
elsewhere and it might be a rather good idea if we took our money out | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
of the European Investment Bank and started our own European | :47:00. | :47:02. | |
investment bank. And the money we have | :47:03. | :47:04. | |
is 36 billion euros, quite a lot of money | :47:05. | :47:06. | |
to do these good In 2009, Boris Johnson | :47:07. | :47:08. | |
praised the European Investment Bank when it announced | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
a substantial loan to the Crossrail project, but at last week's | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
people's question time, a different view | :47:18. | :47:19. | |
on European funding. They are actually deciding how to | :47:20. | :47:30. | |
spend money in our country, that is the perverse thing. Would a Brexit | :47:31. | :47:37. | |
cut off millions of pounds for key London projects, such as the | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
improvement to Croydon schools? Or award for B better off by cutting | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
out the European middleman. This will see children educated in | :47:48. | :47:55. | |
proper classrooms, thanks to a unique loan from the European | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
investment bank, it is good news for London, isn't it? I am delighted for | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
that school, the money could have come from other sources but the most | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
important thing is that something like 7 billion over ten years London | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
has got from this investment fund, if we were to leave the EU our share | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
of what we would be able to take out is ?39 billion. It is our money, it | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
is not some new money that sprouted up in Brussels to be sent here. We | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
would be able to, as the mayor said, we would be able to decide how to | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
spend that money and very few schools have got this, it mainly | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
goes to infrastructure projects. Which is why I referred to it as a | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
unique loan but you say perhaps they should have taken the money from | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
somewhere else. Why would they do that if it costs more money? Croydon | :48:52. | :48:59. | |
saved over ?7 million by taking a loan from the European investment | :49:00. | :49:08. | |
bank. The Government should be funding local schools, and I would | :49:09. | :49:21. | |
imagine Mrs a PFI -- this is a PFI school, which in the end will cost | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
more money. The basic principle of this, we give this huge amount of | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
money, ?50 million a day, ?19 billion a year, we give to the EU. | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
Let's stay with the European investment bank. Bear in mind for a | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
moment that the daily loan rate, we looked at it today, they fluctuate | :49:44. | :49:49. | |
but typically it is .8% cheaper to take a loan from the EIB than a | :49:50. | :50:03. | |
local authority. It is a significant benefit here. That may not | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
necessarily stay at that rate. Very few schools would be able to apply | :50:09. | :50:12. | |
for it, and ultimately long-term if we are not in the EU we would have | :50:13. | :50:17. | |
that money plus the money already in there and we would be able to spend | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
that. We underwrite the banks nearly to the tune of ?40 million, the Lib | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
Dem mayoral candidate says it is cheap money but in essence it is our | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
money but we borrow it back with strings attached. It is fair that we | :50:33. | :50:40. | |
are getting it because it is an investment bank at a national, super | :50:41. | :50:47. | |
national level, at that rate. I think what William said is nonsense, | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
we will get a better deal doing it that way. It puts a lie to one of | :50:52. | :50:58. | |
the claims often made by the leave campaign is that somehow if we got | :50:59. | :51:04. | |
out of the EU we would somehow get ?350 million a week back. The truth | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
is this is one of the benefits we have from being in the EU. I accept | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
the headline of ?350 million does not stack up to the reality. There | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
is increasing hostility in much of the rest of the UK, London has had a | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
very good deal. There was investment in Crossrail, but much of it from | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
the central government grant, we had the Olympic Games in 2012, we want | :51:33. | :51:39. | |
Crossrail now too. These projects will be much more difficult to claim | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
within the capital city I think, given that hostility that is there. | :51:45. | :51:51. | |
Let me just by all this down, specifically for London you said | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
there is more to lose than to gain by stepping outside of the EIB in | :51:55. | :52:02. | |
particular. I wouldn't be hysterical about it. Caroline has a political | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
point to make about how disastrous it would be. I don't think it would | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
be totally disastrous if we left. London is a great city, a lot of | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
people want to invest and come into it. The world is much bigger than | :52:19. | :52:24. | |
that 28 countries of the EU. Would there be any guarantee this money | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
would still be available to London in the way it is now? We would have | :52:28. | :52:34. | |
that money back. No, the UK would have it back. London is the capital | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
city, that is recognised by everybody in the UK. It will always | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
attract much more private investment than other places. I think this | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
is... I'm not going to use the word scaremongering because actually Mark | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
said it would not be a total disaster the weight of the | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
politicians pointed out, but we do need to reflect overall that | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
ultimately this is about us as elected representatives being able | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
to decide... Funny you should mention elected representatives, it | :53:13. | :53:18. | |
is very relevant. Last week opponents of the garden bridge, | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
including a guest here Kate Hoey, made a last-ditch attempt to stop | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
the multi-million pound project in its tracks. So how did she get on? | :53:27. | :53:32. | |
It is three years since the garden bridge plans took root, but with | :53:33. | :53:38. | |
allegations of a rigged procurement process, the project's path has not | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
been a bed of roses but last November, after initially opposing | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
the plans, Lambeth Council signalled their support for the bridge when 20 | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
of the ?60 million public investment was converted into a loan. That | :53:53. | :53:56. | |
hasn't stopped local councillors responsible for the land on the | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
south side of the bridge from voicing their opposition the scheme. | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
We have been steadfast in our opinions about this bridge from the | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
beginning, we have said it is in the wrong location, it shouldn't be | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
publicly funded in any shape or form, it will dramatically change | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
the south bank and its beauty. Last week, they along with Kate Hoey | :54:18. | :54:24. | |
wrote this letter to the builders that owns the lease to the land on | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
the South bank. It said: The garden bridge trust, who are | :54:28. | :55:02. | |
responsible for overseeing the project, said they were confident of | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
it being resolved. We have a number of conditions we need to discharge | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
with Lambeth before we begin construction and we are working | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
closely with local residents and other local businesses, making sure | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
we address their concerns. Lambeth Council told us that the final few | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
planning permissions are still to be discharged over the coming few weeks | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
and its negotiations on the lease are still ongoing. With construction | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
due to begin in the summer, are its opponents in the last chance saloon? | :55:35. | :55:41. | |
Your letter to the leaseholder is a bit desperate, isn't it? In our last | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
discussion you were talking about directly elected representatives and | :55:47. | :55:49. | |
here you are asking an unelected body to make the final decision. The | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
builders have a long-term lease on this land. Lambeth Council have got | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
to agree that they could handed over to the garden bridge to build this | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
big building on it. We are going through a whole series of things. | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
The procurement policy of how it got to the stage it is has been | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
shocking. The planning application and the weight has been handled, | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
this week for example they have agreed to a small number of toilets, | :56:17. | :56:23. | |
eight toilets when Clapham picture house 14 toilets. There's a whole | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
series of things wrong with this. It has been badly handled and | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
ultimately coin Street as the community builders with a lot of | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
resident support will have the final say. The only real political | :56:36. | :56:44. | |
opposition is hyper local. It is you, three ward members and two | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
London Assembly members. Meanwhile the rest of the council, your own | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
London mayoral candidate, they support it. The important people to | :56:54. | :57:00. | |
me in this are the residents and my constituents who are going to have | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
to put up with this, which is spoiling views of London, which cost | :57:05. | :57:10. | |
?60 million of public money. That's not strictly true, is it? ?60 | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
million directly from George Osborne, ?30 million from Transport | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
for London going to be paid back. The other side of the bridge lies in | :57:24. | :57:30. | |
your constituency, and you are on the other side of the argument. It | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
is a vanity project, it is not necessary for London, is it? One | :57:36. | :57:40. | |
small point I would agree with the lady from Lambeth Council earlier | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
on, in an ideal world do we need another bridge? I accept that point | :57:45. | :57:54. | |
but this is a fantastic opportunity to showcase urban design and | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
architecture, and for the whole landscaping that we are going to | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
have. It will link up Temple, one of the most disused tube stations on | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
the district line, and provide an opportunity for a more agreeable | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
pedestrian crossing either side. On the finance side, it is an expensive | :58:15. | :58:21. | |
project at ?175 million, 70% of that is being raised privately. We are | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
talking about public money and it may seem like a small amount, the 10 | :58:28. | :58:31. | |
million that remains from Transport for London, but this is not a | :58:32. | :58:36. | |
profitable financial venture, there will be a cost to Londoners every | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
year going forwards. But it will be a terrific tourist attraction as | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
well being of day-to-day use for Londoners. There are thousands of | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
tourists going past there already. The concept may be wonderful, but it | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
is in the wrong place. There is no reason when the country is facing | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
cutbacks all over the place that ?60 million of public money is being | :59:02. | :59:07. | |
spent on this. If coin Street builders allows this to go | :59:08. | :59:14. | |
through... It hasn't got its planning permission yet anyway, and | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
it is ruining the most wonderful views of St Paul's Cathedral and we | :59:19. | :59:19. | |
are ridiculous to go down views of St Paul's Cathedral and we | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
Now it is time for the rest news in 60 seconds. | :59:24. | :59:33. | |
Former Smiths front man Morrissey could make a late bid for Mayor of | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
London, he said to be considering very seriously an invitation to | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
stand by the animal welfare party. The night tube moved a step closer | :59:42. | :59:47. | |
after members of the train drivers union voted to accept a new pay | :59:48. | :59:50. | |
deal. Sadiq Khan unveiled his mayoral | :59:51. | :59:54. | |
manifesto this week, promising to name and shame landlords convicted | :59:55. | :00:02. | |
of offences. Conservative candidate Zac Goldsmith | :00:03. | :00:08. | |
said Sadiq Khan's plans don't survive even the most gentle | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
scrutiny. Boris Johnson's controversial super | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
cycle highway will open next month along the embankment. The route was | :00:17. | :00:26. | |
described by the Mayor as Crossrail for cyclists. Construction work on | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
the western section between Parliament Square and Paddington | :00:30. | :00:30. | |
continues. You enjoyed that film! Just as well | :00:31. | :00:43. | |
your viewers are not hearing what we said. The appeal to private renters, | :00:44. | :00:51. | |
that could be really powerful. They are also less likely to vote, aren't | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
they? There is a worry about a lot of people in London who do not vote. | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
That is something to concern all of us as political parties. You are | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
right. It is such an important issue, housing. All the political | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
parties in their manifestos have lots about housing. I do think this | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
is something that cross-party we must work together. Does Zac | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
Goldsmith has something for private renters? Siddique Khan is right to | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
identify private renters are the biggest losers. We do need | :01:27. | :01:34. | |
intermediate housing. We need to recognise there are a lot of people | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
who will be renters and part renters for years to come. Thank you very | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
much indeed. Now it is back to Andrew. | :01:44. | :01:48. | |
So, what's in store for us this week? | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
Well, just the small matter of George Osborne's Budget. | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
Another EU summit and the political diary's jam-packed with | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
Let's hear more from our Political Panel, and we're also | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
joined by the Conservative MP, David Davis. | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
100 days to go. Where are we at the moment in this campaign? Just on | :02:10. | :02:19. | |
polling, we are balanced with a large number of uncertainty. What | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
has happened in the last few weeks has been dominated with the flow of | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
events. Turkey has dominated peoples minds and that is what will happen | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
for most of the next 100 days. Events like that will force people. | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
Turkey is about security and immigration and so on. That is a | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
potential backdrop. If the Turkish deal begins to fall apart and the | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
migrant crisis continues, which almost certainly it will, that is | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
the kind of backdrop that is probably more helpful to your side | :02:54. | :02:56. | |
of the referendum than the other one? It is not an accident, a | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
structural outcome of the Schengen zone and the weakness of the eastern | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
border. On other fronts, the financial front, you have the Euro | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
structurally driving events. It seems to me the balance of | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
probabilities in the next 100 days will be those sorts of things are | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
actually going to favour a Brexit. For years and years, Mr Cameron, Mr | :03:24. | :03:30. | |
Osborne, Mr Hague and so on have been spewing out Eurosceptic | :03:31. | :03:37. | |
dialogue. Now they praise our membership of the EU! We cannot | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
survive without the EU. Doesn't that risk jarring a bit with the | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
electorate? I think it is absurd. We have a situation where the Prime | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
Minister gave a big speech at Chatham House. He said can if you | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
could not get the reforms, he would consider the alternative. Everything | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
was on the table. In two options can he would consider campaigning to | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
vote to leave. Now we are told if we left Britain, virtually | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
catastrophic. Plagues of locusts and we will probably all die. You cannot | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
say in November I will leave if I do not get my reforms and now say our | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
country will collapse. That cannot be true, otherwise he would have | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
been willing to leave the EU and risk economic collapse. I think it | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
is scare tactics by Project Fear and it has been very damaging. People | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
like me want Brexit but it is very damaging to the Conservative Party | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
and unity. Howdy you see the campaign going? It has been largely | :04:43. | :04:53. | |
dominated by the Vote Remain rather than the Vote Leave. Vote Remain | :04:54. | :05:02. | |
have chucked a lot at Vote Leave. Many reports have been pumped out. | :05:03. | :05:09. | |
They are in danger of using up all of that arguments for the race has | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
got going. It does look fairly balanced. Some polling has suggested | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
it leans a little towards the remaining side. Whenever people like | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
David or others say it is all Project Fear, for the silent group | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
of people and families with children who are not paying that much | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
attention, if you talk about fear at all, there is a slight sense of | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
maybe there is something to be fearful of after all. It works a | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
bit, I am sure it does, but for how long question that when the Danes | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
had their Euro referendum, the same thing happened. Eventually people | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
were going in for the mockery, as you were, saying we're going to have | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
a 17 foot high fence between us and Germany. That destroyed the campaign | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
for the one thing that has happened is the credibility of the Government | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
are doing has slipped quite a lot in the last few weeks and it is partly | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
because of the exaggeration. You have two friends getting slightly | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
nervous of it, slightly afraid of it, worrying about the risks. On the | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
other hand, they are starting to say, do we really believe all this | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
nonsense? That is the undetermined fact. It has not been a reasonable | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
debate about facts. Is it too early to see who has been nudging ahead? | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
What is significant is that David Davis has a tie in the colours of | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
Vote Leave. The other one is a green tie with black writing. This is an | :06:44. | :06:54. | |
issue of taste. I think what we are learning is the Brexit side is | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
winning skirmishes. The reason they are doing that is because they are | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
an insurgency. With an insurgency, it has six Cabinet ministers in it | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
and that is exciting. You will clearly set the news agenda. The | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
battle in the overall war, you would assume that Remain is nudging ahead | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
because the polling after the Prime Minister Pozner Diehl said voters | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
were impressed by that. Vote Leave have an incredibly simple and | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
incredibly powerful message. Take back control. You may well find that | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
message is so simple and so clear that that might achieve a cut | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
through. Is the queen on the Brexit side or not? I do not think anyone | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
is questioning she is a Eurosceptic. Even at the palace they are not | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
disputing that and the complaint may have made about the story in the Sun | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
newspaper last week. People have said she has in making these | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
comments for some time. Cabinet ministers have told me they do | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
similar things. This woman puts the mother bubble things -- the | :08:00. | :08:08. | |
Commonwealth above all things. She defends the laws and traditions of | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
this country as well. Not Brexit necessarily but Eurosceptic? That | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
seems incontrovertible. The palace and Number 10 are not disputing that | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
at all. It is great to have the Queen onside but I would like her to | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
have one vote. She does not have a vote at all. Is this more within the | :08:32. | :08:43. | |
Tory family question is it more bitter than you thought? Will it get | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
more bitter as time goes on? Even if Mr Cameron wins, he may find it hard | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
to put it together again. I do not think so. It is robust, pretty | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
robust. To some extent he sets the tone himself if he is rude about | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
Boris, there is a backlash. Some say he regards Boris in the same way he | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
regards Ed Balls. A scan and he cannot stop picking at it. This is | :09:13. | :09:22. | |
outside the house and takes quite a lot of poison out of it. It is | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
robust and fears. People are taking it incredibly seriously. How is | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
Boris doing? Pretty well. What is his real value? He draws attention | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
to the issue and adds credibility to it. He makes the odd mistake and | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
everyone forgives him for it. On balance, very useful and important. | :09:43. | :09:51. | |
What about cross-party appeal? The Government began by emphasising the | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
security implications of staying in, saying we needed to stay because of | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
security. I think they have found that a tough argument because people | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
do not associate EU with security. They will move on economic arguments | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
now. The problem with economic arguments is they are nowhere near | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
well-defined as clear and cut -- clearly cut as they were in 1975. | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
They want to make a big picture argument. David Cameron got this | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
deal on the Friday in Brussels. At 7:30pm, George Osborne was on the | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
today programme making a massive destiny economic security argument. | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
They know you cannot focus on the nitty-gritty of that. You have to | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
make the big picture argument. It is potentially a mixed picture. David | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
was saying earlier there is a major crisis in the Eurozone in the next | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
few months, then that could be difficult. You have the opt out full | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
stop when you are in government, there was an opt out from Britain | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
having to join the euro. There is a major crisis. Two European summits | :10:58. | :11:06. | |
in one week. That was not the case when we voted in 1975. The common | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
market was seen as a successful, economic unit that we needed to | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
join. The atmospherics are very different. For 20 years, it was the | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
most successful economic unit, until about the early 90s. Since then we | :11:23. | :11:29. | |
have got nothing. That is what people are seeing. We are moving on | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
to the economic arguments. We have the budget which frames it. They're | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
going to see Barack Obama coming here towards the end of April. | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
You'll be making the argument and doing several events, as I | :11:44. | :11:52. | |
understand it. He owes him a favour. Basically, what you're going to get | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
as a return to the security argument. Returning to where we | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
started this debate, you have got a situation where events will often | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
favoured the out side but the control and ability to stage managed | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
different moments is with the governments. -- the Government. They | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
published a letter with generals on it and have not signed it. One of | :12:17. | :12:23. | |
the generals came out this morning and said he was supporting the | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
Government. It is from the Scottish referendum playbook. That worked. We | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
saw Nicola Sturgeon struggling an hour ago, to explain basic, fiscal | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
point about an independent Scotland but that is why Scotland voted to | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
stay in the UK. You do not know whether the Government will have | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
that element of certainty. As things stand at the moment, are we in or | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
out? The last time I was here I cautiously gave numbers. I would | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
still cautiously stay in. Depressingly I feel we would remain. | :12:57. | :13:05. | |
In with a suppose so vote. None of you overly enthusiast take. We are | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
right on a knife edge in terms of public opinions. We live in a world | :13:10. | :13:17. | |
where the consensus opinion these days is usually wrong. | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
I'll be back next week, same time same place. | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
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