15/07/2012 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


15/07/2012

Andrew Neil and Richard Moss with the latest political news and debate, including interviews with Liberal Democrat minister Jeremy Browne and shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 15/07/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

In the North East and Cumbria - full coverage of yesterday's Durham

:01:17.:01:20.

Gala. Plus how many children are really benefitting from the

:01:20.:01:30.
:01:30.:01:30.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1798 seconds

:01:30.:31:28.

Government's "pupil premium"? Hello, and welcome to the Sunday

:31:28.:31:32.

Politics in the North East and Cumbria. Coming up. What difference

:31:32.:31:35.

has the pupil premium made to children at schools in our region?

:31:36.:31:39.

We've got an end-of-term report from Teesside. My guests for this -

:31:39.:31:43.

our final programme of the series - are Durham North West MP, Pat Glass,

:31:43.:31:47.

and Newcastle Liberal Democrat councillor Nick Cott. And we start

:31:47.:31:49.

with the Durham Gala - a celebration of the North East's

:31:49.:31:54.

mining heritage. But there was a time when it was also a key event

:31:54.:31:56.

in the political calendar, attended by Prime Ministers such as Clement

:31:56.:31:59.

Attlee and Harold Wilson. In more recent years, Labour leaders have

:32:00.:32:02.

stayed away - perhaps embarrassed by the Gala's connections with more

:32:02.:32:06.

left-wing unions. That's was until yesterday - when Ed Miliband

:32:06.:32:16.
:32:16.:32:17.

addressed the crowds in Durham. Our reporter Fergus Hewison was there.

:32:17.:32:23.

A babe in arms, a smile and a wave. After a 23-year absence, the miners

:32:23.:32:31.

gala welcomed back a relaxed looking Labour leader. Ed

:32:31.:32:34.

Miliband's appearance is seen by some as an attempt to reconnect

:32:34.:32:36.

with core Labour supporters, but, of course, it risks handing out

:32:36.:32:39.

ammunition to opponents who accuse him of being too close to the

:32:39.:32:48.

unions. When he took to the stage to speak, Mr Miliband paid tribute

:32:48.:32:51.

to those very people who put him where he is today, the trade union

:32:51.:32:54.

members who voted for him and helped him gain the leadership

:32:54.:32:58.

ahead of his brother, David. trade unions founded the Labour

:32:58.:33:03.

Party. Our party is stronger because of the 3 million nurses,

:33:03.:33:06.

engineers, shop workers and all of the trade union levy payers who are

:33:06.:33:13.

part of that movement. Previous Labour leaders stayed away from the

:33:13.:33:16.

gala, afraid perhaps of aligning themselves too closely with the

:33:16.:33:21.

trade union movement. So has Mr Miliband damaged the brand by

:33:21.:33:31.
:33:31.:33:31.

agreeing to speak? The unions have their job to do, we will disagree

:33:31.:33:35.

from time to time, as we have done over the last 18 months or so. But

:33:35.:33:39.

the link we have to trade unions and to ordinary people in this

:33:39.:33:43.

country is a really important link. Today is not just about politics,

:33:44.:33:48.

it is about celebration of community. Anyone who watched the

:33:48.:33:51.

marching of the banners, the idea that some of this is a bunch of

:33:51.:34:01.
:34:01.:34:03.

militants. Frankly that is nonsense. Almost all of the great and good of

:34:03.:34:09.

the Labour Party and trade union movement in the region were at the

:34:09.:34:14.

gala. Most were relieved to see a Labour leader at the Big Meeting

:34:14.:34:18.

surrounded by minders. He is certainly not in the pocket of the

:34:18.:34:22.

trade unions, as any Labour leader has not been in recent years, but

:34:22.:34:29.

he does listen to the trade unions, of course he does. But it is a

:34:29.:34:35.

healthy relationship. I find the reasons that Labour leaders have

:34:35.:34:39.

not been here for that period frankly inexplicable. Frankly, why

:34:39.:34:44.

would you not come? The speech were short and did not offer much in the

:34:44.:34:47.

way of policies but discern the left Labour supporters with smiles

:34:47.:34:52.

on their faces simply by turning up. Fergus Hewison reporting on

:34:52.:34:55.

yesterday's Durham Gala. Now to our local councils, which again are

:34:55.:34:59.

making cut-backs. This week Durham reduced opening hours at 38 of its

:34:59.:35:02.

libraries as part of its efforts to save nearly �190 million. But can

:35:02.:35:06.

such cuts be made in a way that's both fair to local residents and to

:35:06.:35:09.

the most vulnerable? It's a big challenge and one council - Labour-

:35:09.:35:12.

run Newcastle - has set up its own independent "Fairness Commission"

:35:12.:35:15.

to try and help. Its report is due out tomorrow. But the opposition

:35:15.:35:22.

Liberal Democrats have already dismissed it as a political gimmick.

:35:22.:35:26.

It is a little bit about public relations, a little bit of

:35:26.:35:30.

politicking. Nobody is good be against extending bareness, but it

:35:30.:35:34.

would be more convincing if this council and the other hand full of

:35:34.:35:38.

Labour councils had set up there fairness commission when there was

:35:38.:35:43.

a Labour government. It seems to me to be a device that they have

:35:43.:35:46.

created two not the coalition government for the tough decisions

:35:46.:35:49.

that it is home to take in the light of the difficult inheritance

:35:49.:35:53.

that it had. So is that fair? Well the deputy leader of Newcastle

:35:53.:36:01.

Council, Joyce McCarthy, joins me now. Is this about political

:36:01.:36:05.

posturing and coalition bashing? clip the not. I refute everything

:36:05.:36:12.

that David said in that statement. We believe that it is wrong that

:36:12.:36:15.

about one in three children in Newcastle would in poverty. We

:36:16.:36:21.

believe that it is wrong that people will lose 10 or 12 years of

:36:21.:36:28.

birdlife. Hour Fairness Commission, which, as you said, is independent,

:36:28.:36:32.

is in partnership with Newcastle University and the city council and

:36:32.:36:37.

the partners on not just from politics but from the Church, from

:36:37.:36:41.

education, from higher education and from the community and

:36:41.:36:45.

voluntary sector. We invited them to have a look at these issues and

:36:45.:36:51.

help us to find a way through wit. All those things you said about

:36:51.:36:54.

life expectancy but true under a Labour government. Were you

:36:54.:37:00.

shouting just as loud about it then? Absolutely, but under a

:37:00.:37:02.

Labour government the Government understood the difficult to which

:37:02.:37:07.

we were having. But they were still the same problems. It did reduce

:37:07.:37:12.

National League Child poverty, perhaps not far enough. What we are

:37:12.:37:17.

trying to do in Newcastle is insure that with our partners we have a

:37:17.:37:22.

clear direction. The Fairness Commission does not tell us what to

:37:22.:37:26.

do, it gives us some principles to work to an suggest that every

:37:26.:37:32.

decision should be considered with affair in this perspective.

:37:32.:37:37.

decides what those principles are? What is fair to some is not fair to

:37:37.:37:42.

others. Kenny, with the set of rules that says this is fair?

:37:42.:37:49.

have looked at ways in which we might look at burners. The sectors

:37:49.:37:52.

have set up about 10 principles in a report and we would use those to

:37:53.:37:58.

guide us through the difficult decisions in the future. Amateurs

:37:58.:38:06.

this commission costing? Not very much. The only actual cost is a few

:38:06.:38:11.

1000 pounds that has been spent on research evidence that helps us

:38:11.:38:15.

identify the evidence that backs up the decisions or we will make. If

:38:15.:38:19.

we are looking at fairness, it is unfair that bankers can walk away

:38:19.:38:26.

with millions of Pounds and we are making cuts in services.

:38:26.:38:31.

Nick Cott, these are the biggest cuts councils have ever had to make

:38:31.:38:36.

so was it not right to take a step back to look at how you can do it

:38:36.:38:39.

as fairly as possible? It is a laudable aim for any public body to

:38:39.:38:44.

be looking at issues of fairness. I have no objection in principle to

:38:44.:38:54.
:38:54.:38:54.

the eye deer of 810 Fred. What I am concerned about is the necessity of

:38:54.:38:58.

having a commission to actually investigate these issues. I think

:38:58.:39:02.

there is plenty of research that has been done in relation to

:39:03.:39:07.

fairness, and it can mean different things to different people. We have

:39:07.:39:11.

to be very careful about how we present fairness and what

:39:11.:39:16.

expectations are could be raised. It is unreal issue that the Labour-

:39:16.:39:21.

run authority has a particular view about fairness that relates to

:39:21.:39:26.

geographical locations over and the Bath tackling disadvantage where

:39:26.:39:31.

disadvantaged manifests itself, which I think is hidden behind this

:39:31.:39:35.

smokescreen of the Fairness Commission. Pat Glass, is it ever

:39:35.:39:40.

possible to make the cut but are having to be made fairly? One of

:39:40.:39:43.

the things we never hear in Parliament noun is that we are all

:39:43.:39:48.

in this together. The ship has sailed on but one. If the

:39:48.:39:51.

government wanted to be fair it would not be giving tax cuts to

:39:52.:39:55.

millionaires error it would be making Bankers and companies pay

:39:55.:40:01.

their taxes. I do not want to commit a Newcastle City Council,

:40:01.:40:06.

because I am at Durham MP. What I do not think is fair is that every

:40:06.:40:11.

man, woman and child in Durham county has had cuts of more than

:40:11.:40:13.

simply paints and yet people in Surrey and Devon have got increases

:40:13.:40:21.

of � two each. What ever councils do, there is a perception that

:40:21.:40:25.

there is an unfairness in the source of these cuts from the

:40:25.:40:30.

Treasury. The amount of money through government grant that comes

:40:30.:40:36.

to Newcastle is five times more than it is per person, per head of

:40:36.:40:41.

population, than it is in a number of Surrey councils, which often

:40:41.:40:48.

used as comparison. Win or austerity comes, when cuts need to

:40:48.:40:54.

be made, that will unfortunately have an impact on people. What

:40:54.:40:56.

local authorities and national government and other public bodies

:40:56.:41:00.

need to do is to work out how they will protect those who are most

:41:00.:41:06.

vulnerable and those most in need. It is unfair to castigate the

:41:06.:41:09.

government has eight government which is basically bashing people

:41:09.:41:19.
:41:19.:41:20.

in need rather than bankers. Councils also biding despite these

:41:20.:41:25.

cuts and the perception is that there was that stick at. But think

:41:25.:41:30.

it is amazing that Nick is depending people in Surrey. I'm

:41:30.:41:34.

sure there are 100 times more millionaires in Surrey and there

:41:34.:41:42.

are in Newcastle, said those kind of comparisons... I find it amazing

:41:42.:41:47.

that you are defending Surrey in comparison to Newcastle. I was

:41:47.:41:53.

talking recently, we meet regularly the MPs in Durham and the leaders

:41:53.:41:56.

of Durham County Council, and they are telling us that we have more

:41:56.:42:00.

cuts to come. There are business rate cuts which will mean in Durham

:42:00.:42:05.

County an extra �80 million taken out of the local economy. The

:42:05.:42:09.

government is talking at regional benefits and breach will pay which

:42:09.:42:14.

will take massive amounts out of the local economy. The council in

:42:14.:42:20.

Durham are telling me that in years to come they will struggle to even

:42:20.:42:23.

deliver their statutory functions. Whatever might have happened in the

:42:23.:42:29.

past, we are facing a real crisis in the region.

:42:29.:42:31.

Now, ask any Liberal Democrat what difference they've made in

:42:31.:42:34.

government and it's a fair bet the words "pupil premium" will soon be

:42:34.:42:37.

on their lips. It's their flagship policy for schools - designed to

:42:37.:42:40.

raise the educational achievements of the poorest children by

:42:40.:42:42.

directing extra money to every pupil who receives free school

:42:42.:42:46.

meals. North East schools received some �38 million this year - with

:42:46.:42:50.

another �4r million going to Cumbria. But is it the best way to

:42:50.:42:56.

deliver improvements in our schools?

:42:56.:43:02.

A two-storey time at South Bank Primary in Middlesbrough. The

:43:02.:43:06.

school is in a deprived area but these children are making great

:43:06.:43:11.

strides because as well as meeting in groups they often you want to

:43:11.:43:17.

want help. This very personal approach is only possible because

:43:17.:43:21.

of the �60,000 the school got the sheer from the pupil premium.

:43:21.:43:26.

pupil premium has afforded me that flexibility to respond to the needs

:43:26.:43:32.

of my children where they need the additional support. Without it, I

:43:32.:43:36.

am not sure my results would be at the level they are at, and without

:43:36.:43:41.

it by children would not feel motivated, feel confident, and be

:43:41.:43:46.

able to challenge themselves to raise the aspirations to reach

:43:46.:43:50.

their potential. With more than half of its children getting free

:43:50.:43:53.

school meals, it is hardly surprising that some Debbie Clinton

:43:53.:44:03.
:44:03.:44:16.

does well out of the pupil premium. A few miles away, Nunthorpe School

:44:16.:44:21.

is one of those that has had to cut its budget. Only around one in 10

:44:21.:44:26.

of its people's war on free school meals. It is also one of the most

:44:26.:44:32.

successful academically in the country. The issue is that the

:44:32.:44:38.

child is a child and all children have a equal legal entitlement to

:44:38.:44:44.

equality of opportunity within the education system. While we,

:44:44.:44:49.

inevitably with a small number of both families defined as deprived,

:44:49.:44:53.

have every so sympathy with those families with large numbers of

:44:53.:44:57.

children from families defined as deprived, we feel that the ball

:44:57.:45:03.

park is not a fair one and has not been for quite some time. How much

:45:03.:45:08.

difference will money make any way? And recent research by Durham

:45:08.:45:11.

University raised doubt on whether the way in which the money is being

:45:11.:45:17.

spent will raise standards. Over the past 10 or 15 years, the spend

:45:17.:45:22.

in education has increased cutely already. And we have not seen

:45:22.:45:26.

dramatic increases, it may be no increases at all entertainment

:45:26.:45:31.

across the board. The research on spending and its relationship with

:45:31.:45:36.

genuine improvement in learning is very mixed. Sometimes it can have

:45:36.:45:39.

the benefit, but it is not necessarily so, and it depends of

:45:39.:45:45.

the money is spent on. Like any story, the pupil premium is bound

:45:46.:45:50.

to have its ups and downs, winners and losers, but it is far from

:45:50.:45:54.

clear that this is heading for a happy ending.

:45:54.:45:58.

If this was a Labour policy, you would be ignored him, and yet

:45:58.:46:02.

you're criticising it. There are couple of things that need be said

:46:03.:46:08.

about the pupil premium. In principle, it is a great policy. On

:46:08.:46:12.

the face of it, money following children who while the poorest

:46:12.:46:16.

children. The first thing is, it is not new money, it is a

:46:16.:46:20.

redistribution of what was called additional educational needs

:46:20.:46:24.

funding. As you can see in Middlesbrough, there has been some

:46:24.:46:29.

redistribution between secondary and primary, so it is not new money.

:46:29.:46:34.

The other important issue is that the latest research has shown very

:46:34.:46:38.

clearly that money is going from those areas where there were large

:46:38.:46:47.

concentrations of children on free school meals, it took areas where

:46:47.:46:52.

there are fewer concentrations. So the same amount of money is being

:46:52.:46:57.

spread out more widely. One of it for teas that is losing ate his

:46:57.:47:02.

Middlesbrough, also South Tyneside and Liverpool. The authorities that

:47:02.:47:12.
:47:12.:47:13.

are gaining, not surprisingly, are Rutland and Surrey! Surrey again!

:47:13.:47:19.

It is the intricacies of the funding system that means that this

:47:19.:47:25.

is not working. This is just recycled money. I think it is

:47:25.:47:32.

highly debatable whether it is new money or not. When a new government

:47:32.:47:38.

comes into power by a range priorities differently. There were

:47:38.:47:42.

changes made to the education budget, to council budgets, all

:47:42.:47:46.

public services had changes to their budget. This is additional

:47:46.:47:51.

cash which is being used for targeting disadvantage, for ball

:47:51.:47:58.

rubble people in particular. It follows the child, so there will be

:47:58.:48:02.

children in Surrey that will benefit from the people premium,

:48:02.:48:10.

but there will also be peoples in Newcastle that will benefit. Is the

:48:10.:48:17.

North East disadvantaged in this, do you think? I would not say that.

:48:17.:48:23.

By 2014, they will be �2.5 billion spent on this initiative across the

:48:23.:48:26.

country. It means that it goes straight to those schools where

:48:26.:48:31.

there are children and young people who of disadvantage, he or in need,

:48:31.:48:38.

who need additional assistance. Labour port record amounts of money

:48:38.:48:42.

into education and the owners is not there that it achieved anything.

:48:42.:48:48.

I would disagree with that. Over the years that we were in power,

:48:48.:48:52.

all children improved. I'm not surprised by the evidence that was

:48:52.:48:56.

found. I know, after career in education, that the things that

:48:56.:49:01.

make a difference a good teaching and learning and good leadership

:49:01.:49:06.

and management. No matter how much money put in, if the teaching and

:49:06.:49:09.

learning and the leadership and management is not right, you were

:49:09.:49:12.

not get the changes. If you get that right and put additional money

:49:12.:49:17.

in then you will get results. bother than about whether many

:49:17.:49:22.

peers, it is about the quality of the teaching? Honesty, I do not

:49:22.:49:27.

want money taken out of this region, and it does make a difference, if

:49:27.:49:31.

you have the right teaching and learning and management going on.

:49:31.:49:35.

We can get good quality teachers and get the best people in our

:49:35.:49:39.

schools and we have that money to pay them with.

:49:39.:49:42.

Now, it's nearly the end of this series of the Sunday Politics. And

:49:42.:49:46.

we can't go without bidding a fond farewell to the part of the

:49:46.:49:48.

programme that's become legendary. No Mark Denten this week - the

:49:48.:49:52.

strain for speed has been so great he just couldn't last the distance.

:49:52.:49:54.

But peaking perfectly for the finale, here's Fergus with the

:49:54.:50:04.
:50:04.:50:05.

week's political stories - in 60 The north-east has seen a big fall

:50:05.:50:11.

in university applications, down 11.7 %. Sunderland and Teesside saw

:50:11.:50:18.

the biggest drop though Durham but the trend. Royal Bank of Scotland

:50:18.:50:22.

Group should be broken up, according to an MP who wants the

:50:22.:50:29.

network of new community banks. North Tyneside MP criticised the

:50:29.:50:34.

decision to cut Remploy factories this week. What impact of cutbacks

:50:34.:50:43.

having on Teesside? MPs were not convinced. In some areas, big or

:50:43.:50:45.

him to make three separate complaints of anti-social behaviour

:50:45.:50:51.

before getting a response. Isn't this a symptom of police levels

:50:51.:50:58.

being cut back to 1974 levels? unlikely rebels were among 91

:50:58.:51:05.

Tories who defied the boss to vote against Lords reform.

:51:05.:51:10.

That is about it from us for this week. We will be back in September.

:51:10.:51:16.

Andrew Neil and Richard Moss with the latest political news and debate, including interviews with Liberal Democrat minister Jeremy Browne and shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS