Browse content similar to 02/02/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The unions helped | :00:37. | :00:42. | |
him beat his brother to the top Now Ed Miliband wants to change Labour's | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
relationship with them. Who will come out on top? We will be asking | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
one union baron what he thinks. Cracks in the coalition after | :00:51. | :00:51. | |
one union baron what he thinks. Education Secretary Michael Gove | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
sacks the chairwoman of Ofsted. His Lib Dem deputy is said to be hopping | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
mad. We will be talking to the new deputy leader of the Lib Dems, | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
Malcolm Bruce. Caught a bout of the EU blues? David | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
Cameron has been drowning his Caught a bout of the EU blues? David | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
sorrows with the President of France. Who better? We will be | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
asking if the EU referendum bill is dead in the water. | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
And bad weather getting you down? Getting from A to B a bit of a | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
And bad weather getting you down? nightmare? Fear not! The leader of | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
the Greens will be here with her traffic and travel report. Dutch | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
was activated. It was an airborne alarm and | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
In the North East and Cumbria: Eric In the North East and Cumbria: Eric | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
Pickles is accused of neglecting the region. | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
Is it time he paid us a visit? And could this be the first place in | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
Cumbria to vote reassurance people want? | :01:38. | :01:47. | |
Yes, all that and more in today s action-packed Sunday Politics. And | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
blowing more hot air than I have had hot dinners, Helen Lewis, Nick Watt | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
and Iain Martin. After the row about candidate | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
selection in Falkirk, Ed Miliband said he wanted to reshape the | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
relationship between Labour and the unions. The biggest changes involve | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
union membership of the party, which in turn will affect future Labour | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
leadership elections. Some claim this is Ed's Clause 4 moment. But | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
the unions will continue to be powerful at conference and on the | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
party's ruling committees, and they will still be able to bankroll the | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
election campaign. Here is Labour's deputy leader, Harriet Harman, | :02:24. | :02:33. | |
speaking earlier. What he is proposing for the March the 1st | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
conference is a huge change in financing, in the election of the | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
leader, in what goes on at local level. In due course, it might have | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
implications for the NEC elections and conference. But this is already | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
a big issue to take forward. Joining me now is Paul Kenny, | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
general secretary of the GMB union and chair of the Trade Union and | :02:53. | :03:02. | |
Labour Party Liaison Organisation. Is this Ed Miliband's Clause 4 | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
moment? I don't know about that It is certainly a bold move, | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
particularly to have an electoral college, which as you said was the | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
system which elected him in the first place. Everybody admits that | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
has needed reforming for some time. Moving to a one member, one vote | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
situation seems to me to be sensible. I know some people are | :03:29. | :03:36. | |
upset, mostly MPs, who will lose their golden share. But it is | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
nonsense that one MP should have the same vote as 1000 party members So | :03:42. | :03:50. | |
the MPs have lost out. Have the unions lost out? Well, the system is | :03:51. | :04:00. | |
currently that union members get a ballot paper, but they have to | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
declare that they are a Labour supporter and they have to sign to | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
that effect in order to participate. Then their vote is counted. At the | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
last election, about 200,000 trade union members gave that indication, | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
and they participated in that way. That will not change. The way it is | :04:20. | :04:27. | |
organised will be different. The big change in the electoral college is | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
that the logical weight given to MPs will disappear. I wonder if you have | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
really lost anything. At the moment, there are about 3 million people | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
automatically affiliated from the unions to the Labour Party. If only | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
10% of them opt in, that will still mean twice as many union individual | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
members, 300,000, versus about 180,000 Labour Party members. So | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
union members and maybe even the unions will have as big an influence | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
on the leadership elections as you do now, maybe bigger? Well, they are | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
individual votes. Different unions support different candidates. It is | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
lost in the media myth of barons and block votes, but there is an | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
individual vote. Different unions recommend different candidates, and | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
union members vote accordingly. Ed Miliband won more individual votes | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
by a country mile than David, but it got messed up in the process of this | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
electoral college. As I have understood the proposals so far | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
they are not a done deal. There is a lot of discussion. But it seems | :05:42. | :05:49. | |
there are three hurdles. Firstly, union members themselves will have | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
to agree whether they want to affiliate to the Labour Party. If | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
they don't, the rest of it falls. If they decide they do my they will ask | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
union members to support that an individual basis the next five | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
years, which will have financial implications. Then there will be a | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
third position, which is that people who may want to agree with the | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
union's position and affiliate with the Labour Party may want to go | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
further and become active supporters of the Labour Party, participating | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
in leadership elections. They will have to give their sanction to that | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
at a third stage. So the implications in terms of | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
constituency parties and so on are a lot less than the idea that the 3 | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
million who are currently affiliated will change. At the moment, the | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
unions, because of the automatic affiliation, hand over a affiliation | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
fees of about ?8 million a year to Labour. You will now get to keep | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
that money, because the individuals will have to put up the money | :06:53. | :07:00. | |
themselves. You can keep that money and determine if you give it to | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
Labour to fight the election campaign, correct? Incorrect. | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
Firstly, the affiliation fees are paid from what is called the | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
political fund, which most unions have to set up in order to | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
participate. The union will continue to pay the ?3 a affiliation fee for | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
those members who want the union to be affiliated. But you get to keep a | :07:24. | :07:32. | |
lot more money. In reality, we will see a transitional period of a few | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
years. Less people will probably say yes, depending on how popular Labour | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
are, about whether they want the union to give money to the Labour | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
Party. The GMB has already done this. By the way, don't call me | :07:50. | :08:03. | |
kneel. It is Andrew or Mr Neil. The unions will have a bigger chunk of | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
money because the unions will not be handing over all of the money at one | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
time. But you could still play a major part in funding the Labour | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
election campaign. We'll how much you give the dependent on what the | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
Labour Party puts in its manifesto? Of course it will. It will have to | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
justify our support to Labour for the members who provide money to the | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
political fund. If we did not argue for the cert is social justice | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
campaigns and laws we want to see, we would be failing in our job. I | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
don't intend to hide that from anybody. The unions are there to | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
fight for their members. That is our job. So you will still be a major | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
part of the bankroll of the Labour campaign. You will still have 5 % of | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
the votes at a Labour conference, and you will still have a major part | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
in the Labour National executive committee and the policy committee. | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
It is right to say the unions are still at the heart of Labour, are | :09:05. | :09:14. | |
they not? Well, if you sick to break the affiliated link between trade | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
unions and the Labour Party, the whole thing collapses. That is what | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
anchors the Labour Party as far as we are concerned. Many of our | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
members think that when they want to look for ferrochrome and rights | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
social justice, housing and the health service, Labour are better it | :09:32. | :09:33. | |
quipped to deliver that for working people than the current parties | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
That is why we have traditionally supported them. But not at all of | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
our members support Labour, which is why we don't affiliate all of them | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
to Labour. There are over 30 million people in the British labour force | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
now. Union membership is only 6 5 million out of that 30. A 6.5% of | :09:54. | :10:04. | |
that do not vote Labour, they vote Tory or liberal or nationalist in | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
Scotland. So you are a relatively small pressure group. Why should | :10:11. | :10:17. | |
Labour be in thrall to you? We are the biggest voluntary organisation | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
in this country. Sorry about that, but that is the fact. People make | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
conscious choices. My own union the GMB, has been growing for eight | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
years. So this dying picture you are trying to paint... In terms of | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
accounting for the fact that some do not support Labour, that is why | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
unions do not affiliate all of their members to the Labour Party. We have | :10:41. | :10:48. | |
adjusted to that. If you don't like being called Neil, I don't like | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
being called a barren either. What about Mr Baron? I don't like that | :10:53. | :11:00. | |
either. We are representatives of working organisations. It may be | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
inconvenient for politicians to have to listen to working people, but we | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
will continue to press. Lord Baron, thank you very much. | :11:08. | :11:15. | |
So, is this a Clause 4 moment for Ed Miliband? Not really, but to his | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
credit, he is going ahead with this. There was a point at which it looked | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
as though Ed Miliband would back away from reform. To his credit he | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
is trying to create a mass membership party again. But when it | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
comes to the crucial business of funding a general election campaign, | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
these reforms will make Labour more reliant on large donations from | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
trade unions. They could have more power now, because they get to hold | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
back this money, whereas beforehand, they had to hand it over | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
automatically. As Mr Kenny just said, how much they handover will be | :11:53. | :11:59. | |
dependent on good behaviour. Yes, but these are pragmatic reforms The | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
fact that Ed Miliband has a lot of capital in not being seen as a | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
Blairite has helped him get these through . The response has been | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
muted, which suggests good party management on his behalf. That may | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
be because they will still have 50% of the votes at a party conference. | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
Mr Kenny was clear that that could be deal-breaker if they tried to | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
take that away. They have more places at the NEC than anyone else, | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
and party members, if only 10% of them signed up, they will outweigh | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
individual members in the constituencies. It was interesting, | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
how relaxed Paul Kenny was. He was taking thousands of pounds from the | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
Labour Party a few months ago because he was annoyed about these | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
reforms, and now he is relaxed because they still have 50% of the | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
vote at Labour Party conference and Labour Party Parliamentary | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
candidates are still selected in the same way. But there is a simple | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
point here. Yes, you can pick apart what Ed Miliband said and said the | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
unions have too much influence, but the only way he could have gone all | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
the way was to break the link with the trade unions, and he was not | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
going to do that. It was not the Labour Party that founded the | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
unions, it was the unions that founded the Labour Party. Even Tony | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
Blair did not break the link. In that context, Ed Miliband has gone | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
incredibly far. For the last 50 years, this opting into the union, | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
you have to turn to page 50 of your union terms and conditions to say, | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
do you want to opt out of the political levy 's that is going to | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
go, which will mean that when the next Labour leader is elected from | :13:37. | :13:43. | |
the union votes, they will get their ballot from the Labour Party and you | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
will append the fast where ballots went out from Unison macro and GMB | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
with a picture of Ed Miliband on the front of the ballot paper saying, | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
vote for aid. They were Stasi and Saddam Hussein ways of trade union | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
members electing the Labour leader, which will go. I am sorry his | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
Lordship is not still here to answer that question. | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
HMS Coalition is not a happy ship. The lovey-dovey days in the rose | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
garden are long gone. It is not a loveless marriage, perhaps even an | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
open one. The latest split is over the decision by Education Secretary | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
Michael Gove to replace Labour peer Sally Morgan as head of the schools | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
inspectorate, Ofsted. Mr Gove's deputy, Lib Dem David Laws, is said | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
to be spitting blood about her removal, although only through | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
surrogates. He has not said a word on the record. Here was the | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
Education Secretary a little earlier. If there is another | :14:37. | :14:48. | |
opportunity for Sally to serve in a different role at a different time, | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
then I would be delighted to support her in the role which she thinks it | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
is appropriate to do. There is nothing wrong with Sally but there | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
is a principle across government that there should be no automatic | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
reappointment, and that after three or four years, it is appropriate to | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
bring in a fresh pair of eyes. That is good corporate practice in order | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
to ensure that you refresh boards, bring a new perspective, and have | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
tough questions asked. We're joined now by the newly elected deputy | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
leader of the Liberal Democrats Malcolm Bruce. He's in Aberdeen | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. David Laws is said to be furious | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
with Michael Gove, is he? I think he is because Sally Morgan has been | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
doing a good job and that has been generally agreed across the whole | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
spectrum. I think Ofsted is an impartial body that inspects all | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
schools and it shouldn't be subject to some kind of political direction. | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
That is the concern, that she is being removed when she was doing a | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
good job and most people thought she should be reappointed. It is | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
strongly rumoured her successor will be a high-ranking Tory backer. Why | :16:03. | :16:15. | |
hasn't David Laws said this himself, have you spoken to him? I have, and | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
I know he is not very pleased about it but he will want to speak to | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
Michael Gove himself when he gets to see him on Monday. The question you | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
have to take on board is that David Laws is the schools minister, | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
effectively the one who has engagement with Ofsted, and he is | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
seeing it being undermined by the Secretary of State. There is a | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
question that if Michael Gove is so pleased with Sally Morgan why is he | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
replacing her, and who will he be replacing her with, and on what | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
basis? Maybe parliament should have a confirmation hearing so that we | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
can be assured that whoever is put in charge is there because they are | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
good at it. Why has he licensed his surrogates to save this rather than | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
saying it himself? He didn't, he knew I was on the programme this | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
morning so I am giving you the answers as best I can. David is | :17:18. | :17:25. | |
perfectly capable of speaking for himself. He hasn't so far. You asked | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
me to come on this programme and David was anxious for me to know he | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
wasn't happy about it, and I can certainly tell you that. I can also | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
give you my own opinion which is that Ofsted is not the Department | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
for Education, it is an independent body. The question you have to ask | :17:45. | :17:52. | |
is will Michael Gove but someone in charge of Ofsted who will have a | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
political agenda? If so, that is not what Ofsted should be used for. | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
Let's move on to your own position. You are 69, white male, | :18:04. | :18:15. | |
middle-class, what is your answer to the party with diversity problems? I | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
don't think that is what they voted on. They felt I had a wealth of | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
experience that would be vulnerable to the party from the period now | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
until the election, not least because the central issues that will | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
concern voters are the economy, and I have a track record of promoting | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
the party's economic policy over many years. But you are not even | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
standing at the next election. No, but we need to get to the next | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
election and my colleagues have confidence that I can do a useful | :18:49. | :19:01. | |
job for the party in that situation. We have developed and delivered | :19:02. | :19:03. | |
policies that I have helped to shape and I want to persuade people to | :19:04. | :19:05. | |
understand the Liberal Democrats have made a fundamental difference | :19:06. | :19:08. | |
to the economic recovery. But you know what has been happening with | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
the Liberal Democrats and their problems with women. Wasn't this a | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
chance to select a woman in a major part? You only have seven female MPs | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
out of 57, not a single Lib Dem woman in the Parliament. Again, why | :19:25. | :19:33. | |
you rather than making a break and bringing someone in onto major | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
positions? My colleagues have concluded that the role I am best | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
qualified to do it, that is why they voted for me. We do only have seven | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
women and that is an issue we need to address. Two of those women are | :19:51. | :20:01. | |
ministers, one is a government whip. We seem to have lost our line to | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
Aberdeen, just as Malcolm Bruce was in full flight defending his | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
position. I'm not sure if we can get the line back, just bear with me for | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
a few seconds to see if we can get it. It looks as if we have lost | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
Malcolm Bruce, I do apologise to Malcolm Bruce and the viewers that | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
we were not able to continue that interview. | :20:28. | :20:35. | |
Fierce winds, torrential rain and a tidal surge have brought more misery | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
to thousands. Official records show that southern England has seen the | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
wettest January since records began in 1767. I remember it well. The | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
Somerset Levels have been hit by weeks of flooding, with little | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
respite from relentless rain. And, the residents of one village on the | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
Levels, Muchelney, has been cut off for almost a month. We sent our Adam | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
out with his wellies and a properly filled out risk assessment form The | :20:59. | :21:18. | |
very wet road to Muchelney. This village of about 100 residents has | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
been cut off for about four weeks, and like the weather vane, it feels | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
a little bit spooky. It came up to here and your front door was there. | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
Anita is just relieved the water stopped here, practically on her | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
doorstep. Now it is the practicalities that are the problem. | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
Driving around for food is quite a hassle. You are foraging. It's not | :21:47. | :21:53. | |
as bad as that but we do have a few bits in the vegetable garden still, | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
and we had some nice apples until the rats ate them but we are not | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
doing too badly on that score. It sounds like the medieval! That's | :22:03. | :22:11. | |
what it feels like. Talking of retro, who knew Somerset still had a | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
Coleman, this is Brian's first delivery since Christmas. Everything | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
has gone old-fashioned. We are now talking to neighbours we might never | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
have seen before or spoken to so we are getting to know more people in | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
the village. She's right, there has been an outbreak of Dunkirk spirit, | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
quite literally. The council and the Fire Brigade have put on this boat | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
service to get people to work and school. The church has become an | :22:47. | :22:56. | |
unofficial flood HQ. This is where people pick up their mail, and this | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
is where the people who run the boat stopped for their tea breaks. It all | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
seems quite jolly, if a bit boring, but it is no fun for the homes and | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
businesses that have been inundated, or for the farmers whose land is | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
underwater, an area the size of Bristol, or for the villages which | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
are less isolated but where the flooding is worse. People like the | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
parish chairman are starting to get angry with how the Government has | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
responded. It was all a bit late. We knew what was going to happen with | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
the amount of rain on the fields and the Government was so slow to | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
react. The county council got the boat going quickly but it was | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
another four weeks nearly before the button was pressed for the major | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
incident. Right on cue, the cavalry arrived in the shape of emergency | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
crews from other parts of the UK. The rumour is that they will bring | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
in a hovercraft but the bad news is that the weather is becoming more | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
grim this weekend. There has been a surge in bookings at the campsite | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
where people have seen the Somerset Levels on holiday and would like to | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
come on holiday, if it ever stops raining. I'm delighted to say we | :24:17. | :24:25. | |
have got the line back to Aberdeen, somebody has put a shilling in the | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
meter. We can go back to Malcolm Bruce. We were talking about the Lib | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
Dem women and your election, I suppose the point some people are | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
making is that your party has as many knights in Parliament as it has | :24:41. | :24:48. | |
women and you are one of them. The good news is that for the five MPs | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
who are standing down, who have had candidates elected in their | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
constituencies so far, all five candidates that have been selected | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
are women. We need to fight hard to get behind those women and get them | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
elected so that we have a much better balanced parliament in the | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
future, but given that we have few women, you really have to pick | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
people appropriate for the job and we have appointed the women as I | :25:17. | :25:34. | |
have said but we need our image to be balanced. How many women | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
candidates will there be come the next election? At the moment, 1 , | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
five more than we have now, and we haven't finished selection. Where | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
there are men sitting and standing again, that is not likely to change, | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
but where they are standing down we are overwhelmingly choosing women, | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
and in my view good and very able women. What I would want to say to | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
people is that if you want to see the Lib Dems have more women, go to | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
those seats and help us hold them. We are told that only 20% of the 57 | :26:17. | :26:23. | |
seats have female candidates and in the unlikely event that you were | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
able to hold onto them all, it still wouldn't be a sea change to have | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
20%. The point is you have to build them up. We are supporting female | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
candidates. These are really good candidates who will make first-class | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
MPs and I certainly believe you will gradually see the Liberal Democrats | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
taking them on. We don't have 3 0 seats that we currently hold like | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
other parties, but what I can tell you is that increasing -- | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
increasingly we will have female candidates. One newspaper has said | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
that you will deal with the Chris Rennard fallout quickly and | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
privately, what does that mean? It means I will not be telling you | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
because these things are not helped by comments on the airwaves. I hope | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
it will be possible to have a resolution without people going to | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
court but I don't think it helps anybody for me to comment on any | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
aspect of how this will be done and I'm not prepared to do so. If you | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
are not in full possession of the facts, why did you say you will deal | :27:37. | :27:44. | |
with this privately? I have come into this halfway through, I don't | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
have full possession of the facts, I doubt you do, and we have a process | :27:49. | :27:56. | |
that needs to be followed through. Any comments in public do not help. | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
Isn't it hypocrisy of a high order to hear from a party that is | :28:03. | :28:09. | |
constantly calling for transparency in other institutions but when it | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
comes to your own, you say, I am not going to talk about it. There are | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
all sorts of disputes that happen in the world and often people don't | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
talk about them because talking about them aggravates the | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
situation. I believe you have to deal with them privately and I don't | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
think trial by media in this context is helpful and I don't believe that | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
those who choose to make those comments are making it easier to | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
solve them. There are problems in other walks of life and the Liberal | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
Democrats are not the only ones with these problems. We are trying to | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
change that culture and I think we will do it effectively in our own | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
way. We have a pastoral care officer now and I think that is the right | :28:55. | :29:05. | |
way to do it. Thank you for that. Let's now go back to the story of | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
the flooding in Somerset. We are joined by the leader of the Green | :29:10. | :29:17. | |
party, Natalie Bennett in Millbank. Natalie Bennett, don't the Green | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
party bears some responsibility for these floods? You have sided with | :29:23. | :29:30. | |
the Environment Agency in the decision not to dredge rivers and | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
that is one of the reason why these places have been flooded. Firstly I | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
want to give my sympathy to everyone dealing with these floods. The | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
homeowners, the farmers seeing sodden fields for weeks and weeks. | :29:47. | :29:55. | |
We get that, we all have huge sympathy, particularly because so | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
little seems to be done to help them. What is the answer to my | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
question? I think there is strong evidence that dredging is not the | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
answer. If you think about the flow of the river, where the pinch points | :30:10. | :30:16. | |
are is things like bridges, weirs and towns. If you dredge the river | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
in between those barriers, you just make the water faster to those | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
points. The experts are saying that dredging is not the answer, it may | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
be in particular cases, but you have to look at each river system on its | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
own merits and very often the best way of dealing with this is working | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
out ways to slow the watered down and make sure that people don't | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
suffer unduly while you are doing that. The west of England | :30:41. | :30:49. | |
agricultural Society, which I would venture knows more about the | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
Somerset Levels than either of us, has said that without dredging, this | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
was a disaster waiting to happen. The local drainage boards have been | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
calling for years for dredging to be resumed. The National Farmers' Union | :31:01. | :31:06. | |
has called for it, and the chairman of the West Sussex flood defences | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
has called for more drainage, and he is a drainage engineer by | :31:11. | :31:12. | |
profession. So I don't know where your experts are, but the experts on | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
the ground am not the urban ones in London, seem to think this has not | :31:18. | :31:25. | |
been caused, but made worse by the failure of the Environment Agency to | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
continue to dredge. If you look at the example of the planning and | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
climate change coalition, which is led by the town and country planning | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
Association, who you would not describe as a group of radical | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
greens, these people have said we have to look at how we deal with | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
flooding in the future. But not in Somerset. These are the people | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
currently being flooded, not somebody sitting in a quango office | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
in London. They have asked for this to happen and it hasn't, and they | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
are now flooded in definitely. We have to look at what is happening on | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
a case-by-case basis. If you look at Germany, there are many cases there | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
were, to deal with flooding, many farmers are paid to hold water on | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
their land. Maybe we need to introduce those systems, because we | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
have to protect farmland, but we also have to protect urban areas for | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
safety. We saw a horrible flood in Wales were lines were endangered -- | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
where lives were endangered. That is the priority, to protect lives, | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
property and farmland. Lives are endangered at the moment, | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
particularly as this stagnant water turns toxic. And yet we are in a | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
situation, again encouraged by the Greens and the lobbying Environment | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
Agency, it says it does not want to dredge because dredging is | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
expensive, yet it spends millions on a bird sanctuary. That is getting | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
everything totally wrong. The government is getting everything one | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
by cutting on flood defences. It has not cut on a bird sanctuaries. I | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
don't know the details of that. But looking at the broader issue, we | :33:07. | :33:14. | |
have to prepare for climate change. The government has slashed funding | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
to the Environment Agency and has cut back on the number of staff | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
available to deal with it and has removed the requirement on local | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
councils to plan for climate change. These are all gambling the future of | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
our lives and property and the future of our environment. Hasn t | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
the high watermark of greenery now gone well past? You don't come out | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
of the Somerset Levels with any great reputation. The UK government | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
is now going to start fracking as quickly as it can. Brussels is | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
loosening the CO2 obligations for 2030. The President of America is | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
about to give the go-ahead to the keystone pipeline, a totemic issue | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
for American greens, and your party is in a state of civil war in | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
Brighton. It is over, isn't it? Absolutely not. We are seeing large | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
amounts of extreme weather around the world. Any one event is whether, | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
but we are seeing a lot of it and people are recognising that climate | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
change is happening. If we are going to quote international experts, I | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
can quote to you Ban Ki-Moon, the UN Secretary-General, not known as a | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
radical green, and he said after the IPCC report came out that the heat | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
is on and we must act. If you go to Christine Lagarde, head of the | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
International Monetary Fund, again not a radical green, she was asked | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
what kept her awake at night, and she said, we are not doing enough | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
about climate change. So actually, people around the world are looking | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
at what is happening around them are both people on the ground and people | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
in high positions are saying we have to act on climate change. And in the | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
case of Britain, that should absolutely not mean fracking. Sorry | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
to interrupt, but I have evidence that you are planning a little | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
career change. Don't go away. This is what happens when you let Nigel | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
Farage present the weather. One thing leads to another and low and | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
behold, the Sunday Politics now has a new traffic and travel reporter. | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
Let's go back to Green Party leader, Natalie Bennett. Thanks, Andrew It | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
is easy out that, so let's start with our airports. I am pleased to | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
say that Heathrow's third runway, Boris Island and all short-haul | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
flights are, just like our arguments, well grounded. We suggest | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
making or alternative arrangements, like a re-nationalised rail | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
network, although it would be a glaring omission if we did not admit | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
that that plan is currently being delayed by Labour Party foot | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
dragging. Speaking of trains, we are hearing that high-speed two may well | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
be derailing, or at least getting bogged down in political fog. One | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
viewer, Ed Balls, has texted in to say he is completely lost. Thanks | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
for the update, Ed. You are not alone among political commuters | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
Meanwhile, dumped UKIP manifestoes are causing major tailbacks across | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
the South, apparently stretching all the way to Brussels. This does make | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
driving road tricky, but UKIP's MEPs can, of course, just hop on their | :36:28. | :36:37. | |
gravy train. The tree had a roundabout is blocked after reports | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
of a political earthquake. It seems that a green unwound his beard to | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
block a dodgy gas extractor. A motorist who turned out to be the | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
environment minister object into the delay and was told to frack off as | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
furious badgers demanded that he stopped moving the goalposts. | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
Unregulated traffic in the city of London continues unchecked. | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
Pedestrians should try to block bankers with sacks of loot rushing | :37:09. | :37:11. | |
for the payments. But do beware the Lib Dem Exodus that is clogging up | :37:12. | :37:18. | |
the motorways. Although they are in a jam, or is it a fudge, we are | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
happy to make way for them, as, like all refugees, we say they are | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
welcome here in muesli green. That is the travel. Back to you, Andrew. | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
Natalie, I think you make my point. You are now preparing a new career | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
in traffic and travel. Well, I do believe in lifelong education and | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
that was an example of it. We know you have had a tough time today to | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
get to our studio. Thank you for the effort. | :37:50. | :37:56. | |
You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 | :37:57. | :37:58. | |
minutes, He's not easy to miss, yet the big | :37:59. | :38:15. | |
personality that is Eric Pickles is a rare sighting in the North East. | :38:16. | :38:22. | |
We've been on his trail. And could Cumbria be about to get | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
its first elected mayor? Campaigners in Whitehaven hope so. But can they | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
persuade the public? In the studio to pick over a busy | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
political week: The Labour MP for Houghton and Sunderland, Bridget | :38:34. | :38:35. | |
Phillipson and the Conservative who'll be fighting Middlesbrough | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
South at the general election, Will Goodhand. | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
But let's start with the north`south divide, and this week's report by | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
the research organisation Centre for Cities which suggests it's getting | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
wider than ever. Eight out of every ten new jobs that | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
have been created in the private sector between 2010 and 2012 were in | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
London. That is leading to something of a brain drain. With some 6000 | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
people leaving the north`east to live in London. | :39:06. | :39:15. | |
Bridget, is any of this surprising? People have been attracted to London | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
for a long time. We don't want to see our brightest and best leave the | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
region. We have great potential and we have seen some success. We need | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
skilled people to bring forward the region and lead us to greater | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
success. It is a great concern. Will, the Government has thought | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
about rebalancing the economy. This report suggests that the economy is | :39:41. | :39:46. | |
getting worse. I can take the example of my own area. In the past | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
year, we have seen 11.8% reduction in the number of people claiming | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
jobseeker's allowance. We have to do more, of course, we have to keep | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
working at it. We have a tease valley city deal. We have the | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
apprentice programme which I see many people... People come and get | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
involved in that. There is more to do. It is no secret that you don't | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
come from the area originally. When you come here, you wonder why people | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
leave or do you think, you know, the bright lights of London, I can see | :40:29. | :40:38. | |
why? I live in Middlesbrough South, there is a huge amount of skill and | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
talent on Teeside. Yes, we need to do more. Yes, we need to get the | :40:45. | :40:53. | |
industries connected. I think there is a typical Labour approach to this | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
which is obviously just to see whether we can spend more? The | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
conservative approach is to ask whether we are spending wisely? How | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
can we empower people to drive things forward themselves? Bridget, | :41:09. | :41:19. | |
Middlesbrough has a low number of businesses created, a falling | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
population. Is that worrying? We have a challenge in Sunderland. | :41:24. | :41:31. | |
Unfortunately, the picture that he is painting is a partial one. In his | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
error, as in mind, we have seen long`term use on a blunt co`op and | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
wages fall. The Government must take action. We are seeing a growing | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
North South divide and it is bad for the UK. We will have to leave that | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
there. Well, the Government has tried to do | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
something to reduce that north`south divide this week with tax breaks for | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
High Street retailers and a potential university enterprise zone | :42:00. | :42:01. | |
in Newcastle. You might have thought that the Local Government Secretary | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
Eric Pickles would have headed north to trumpet that sort of good news. | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
After all he's taken plenty of flak over cuts to council budgets. But | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
you'd be wrong. As Mark Denten discovered, a visit to the North | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
East and Cumbria from Mr Pickles is a rare thing indeed. Gateshead | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
library, still open, but hit by cuts. They used to be council | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
staff, now they are volunteers. Opening hours have been cut. The | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
council leader says cuts that the area has faced make grim reading. | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
The level of cuts have been ?75 million in the last four years. | :42:36. | :42:41. | |
We'll Apple bring have to make 45 million further cuts. `` we will. | :42:42. | :42:52. | |
The Government says it is... In terms of getting access, I wrote in | :42:53. | :42:58. | |
2010. I had to write again in January and I'm still waiting. He is | :42:59. | :43:01. | |
the Secretary of State for local Government and is acting as if he is | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
against it. The Sunday Politics programme in a Freedom of | :43:09. | :43:10. | |
Information request. This is what we asked: Where Eric Pickles has made | :43:11. | :43:17. | |
official visit in England since the coalition was formed? We were told | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
that providing the information would cost an excessive amount of money as | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
it would involve going back over his diary over a period of 3.5 years. | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
But Mr pickles has been a rare sight in the region. That is unlike some | :43:35. | :43:43. | |
of his Government colleagues. We understand Vince Cable has been to | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
the north`east and Cumbria eight times since 2010. Nick Clegg has | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
made ten official visits and the Prime Minister David Cameron has | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
been to the region 12. Eric Pickles, he has made one official visit and | :43:57. | :44:03. | |
that was back in June 2011. While this Pittman is not holding his | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
breath for a sighting `` in man. Does he know where Gateshead is? | :44:10. | :44:16. | |
Does he get out of London? We only have three men now to do the area. | :44:17. | :44:25. | |
The people of Gateshead can see what is happening. They can see the | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
streets aren't being swept on a regular basis. The beans aren't | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
being emptied once a week. The flower beds aren't there. All of | :44:34. | :44:41. | |
this has gone. He must be in denial if he thinks that we can deliver the | :44:42. | :44:47. | |
service that we used to deliver four or five years ago. Maybe the | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
Government is listening. Greg Clark agreed to meet all north`east MPs at | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
Westminster every six weeks. Conservatives say that the Eric | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
Pickles row is about political mischiefmaking. This is a Labour | :45:01. | :45:06. | |
spin. A nice track to remove all blame from them. They have choices | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
to make and they want Eric Pickles to come up. We know that local | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
Government has had to face some horrendous cuts. But get on with it, | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
stop whingeing. We wanted to interview Eric Pickles or one of his | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
assistants but was told that no one is available. They say that | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
ministers at Westminster have what they call an open door policy. | :45:35. | :45:45. | |
What has Eric got against us? I'm not the keeper of Eric Pickles's | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
diary. I am expecting him to make a visit up to my area soon. But that | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
is probably to campaign for you. Actually, no, it isn't to listen to | :45:59. | :46:08. | |
local people. `` it is. I think it is mistaken for the gentleman on the | :46:09. | :46:14. | |
report to refer to him as the anti`local Government secretary. The | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
truth is that he makes an offer to councils that if they keep council | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
tax the same, there is extra cash for them. Local councils, some of | :46:24. | :46:31. | |
them, have gone against that and put it up. But this is not necessarily | :46:32. | :46:42. | |
party political. What I pick up when I talk to people around | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland is that people don't talk | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
about being neglected by Eric Pickles, they talk about being | :46:50. | :47:01. | |
neglected by their own counsel. That is a massive concern. People are | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
actually feeling let down by the local councils. You can hardly say | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
that the Government is ignoring us. Given the Prime Minister's visits | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
and the Deputy Prime Minister's visits, they've been here a lot. You | :47:18. | :47:22. | |
only have to look at the cuts to the local councils to understand that it | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
is an issue. I don't understand why Eric Pickles's department cannot | :47:26. | :47:31. | |
provide what is an easy figure to reach and I hope the BBC will appeal | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
that decision. It is ludicrous. I don't know why he does not want to | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
get out around the country and come to the north`east and see the | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
impacts that are being made by his policies. The Prime Minister and | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
Deputy Prime Minister have been here. Does it really matter if he is | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
not talking to the leader of Sunderland Council every other week? | :47:53. | :47:59. | |
I think he should be. He would know that the cuts that are being made to | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
the budget are making very difficult decisions about what can be funded | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
in the future. Actually, money is being redistributed back to affluent | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
and leafy areas in the south and skewed from the North. Surely the | :48:17. | :48:25. | |
MPs can raise that. I was at the meeting with Greg Clark and that was | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
called because north`east MPs wants to meet with a Government minister | :48:31. | :48:35. | |
to make our case. The clerk is not a minister for the North East. Unlike | :48:36. | :48:36. | |
Portsmouth, minister for the North East. Unlike | :48:37. | :48:44. | |
particular challenge. We have the highest unemployment in the country, | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
we have rising levels of unemployment, we need special | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
attention and extra help to lead private sector investment to create | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
jobs. We're not getting that. Before we go into wider argument about | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
that, I want to talk about funding. Will you defend a funding situation | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
where Middlesbrough loses 24% of its spending power and others are seeing | :49:08. | :49:15. | |
it go up? We still have a situation where the most deprived councils are | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
getting ?1000, on average, per dwelling more than the least | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
deprived. The narrative that the Government is neglecting deprived | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
areas is not the case. That gap is closing, isn't it? Will you be | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
telling people in Middlesbrough at the election that they have not | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
fared worse than people in Surrey? The support is still there. Will you | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
tell people they are getting a fair deal in Middlesbrough? The | :49:44. | :49:50. | |
conversations that I have with local people, they feel frustrated with | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
their local councils because you have this situation where any time | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
of austerity, local Government spending is a quarter of all | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
Government spending, inevitably there will be pressure. How do | :50:05. | :50:08. | |
councils respond? Do they raise their game? Councils need to raise | :50:09. | :50:14. | |
their game and small money is being spent here. `` more money. It is not | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
just Labour is saying that. Others recognise it. We think that bias in | :50:20. | :50:26. | |
the funding formula that skews money away from our regions should be | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
ended. That is something we will review. We need a fairer funding | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
settlement for the region. Elected mayors haven't always been a | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
success. In Middlesbrough it's proved relatively popular. But in | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
Hartlepool, voters decided to abandon the experiment and go back | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
to the old`fashioned way of doing things with a council leader and | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
Cabinet. None of that has stopped campaigners in West Cumbria though. | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
They want a high`profile mayor to tackle the area's problems. Emily | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
Unia reports from Whitehaven. This family business was started by | :50:57. | :51:03. | |
this woman's family in 1908. But she is worried about the future of the | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
town. Nobody is busy at the moment. The footfall in Whitehaven has | :51:09. | :51:14. | |
decreased. Carla thinks that the directly elected mayor for the area | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
could make a difference, so she helped to gather nearly 4000 | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
signatures calling for a referendum. She argues that a mayor | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
would be more answerable to the public. We have a leader that has | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
not been voted in. If we had an elected mayor, that gives people a | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
choice. That is the most important thing, democracy. We would be | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
allowed to decide that person, that person would be there for four | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
years. If they were no good, we could vote them out. Recent | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
decisions about the cuts have created discontents. Whitehaven's | :51:52. | :51:53. | |
Civic Hall cut because Copeland Council could not afford the running | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
costs. The tourist information Centre has gone and these public | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
toilets are due to be demolished. Other towns have lost amenities. It | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
is fair to say that directly elected mayors have not fired the | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
imagination of voters. Ten cities held a referendum, only one, | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
Bristol, voted yes. Closer to home, Middlesbrough and North Tyneside | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
have a mayor, but Hartlepool scrap the system. On the 22nd of May, what | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
will voters in Copeland say? I would vote yes to this idea. It is | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
probably a good idea. I would vote yes. I have yet to work that one | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
out. I don't know as of yet. And that is maybe the way forward. I | :52:43. | :52:50. | |
think it is a much more democratic process. Potential candidates for | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
mayor have yet to emerge. One well`known local figure has already | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
declined. He doesn't think a mayor will deliver the change people want. | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
It is easy to attack the Council for closing the toilet that if there is | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
genuinely no money, it is not a blame game, there is no money in the | :53:10. | :53:17. | |
country. There is not a magic pot of cash. If you elect `` if you elect a | :53:18. | :53:27. | |
mayor, there will still not be any money. | :53:28. | :53:34. | |
It could be expensive. At this time, when we have had to make budget | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
cuts, that is one of the biggest weaknesses if we go down the route | :53:38. | :53:42. | |
of elected mayor, you are looking at upwards of ?100,000 when we are | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
trying to save money. And we have to save ?1.6 million next year. People | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
living in Copeland will make that decision in May. | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
The local MP for Copeland is Jamie Reed. Does he think it is a good | :53:59. | :54:10. | |
idea. I welcome this. I think the fact that so many people think this | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
has been an interesting idea and happen interest in local Government | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
structures is a welcome development. What could a mayor do that the | :54:20. | :54:26. | |
council is not? Local Government in Cumbria is a mess. We are over | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
governed, we have too many politicians. There is a legitimate | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
question to ask. If the answer is that we do need another politician, | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
is the question right? There are some positive changes that could | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
happen in Copeland, one is a town council for Whitehaven. If we look | :54:46. | :54:49. | |
at the powers of a mayor, where they have been successful in the past, | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
they are in big areas than Copeland. But I don't have a vested interest | :54:54. | :55:01. | |
in either way. You have made the point yourself. If the problem is | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
politics, do we need another politician? Let's get the facts out. | :55:06. | :55:13. | |
Would he or she have a salary or support staff? I don't think it | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
would mean the removal of a Chief Executive structure or the post of | :55:18. | :55:20. | |
council leader or anything like that. | :55:21. | :55:30. | |
Also, town councils, of course do not get paid. These are issues that | :55:31. | :55:40. | |
need to get considered. Copeland MP Jamie Reed there talking | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
to reporter Robin Chrystal. There has been flagging enthusiasm | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
for elected mayors. But there is perhaps an interest there. As you | :55:49. | :55:57. | |
say, it was labour that brought in these powers and I think it is right | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
that people in Copeland want an elected mayor, that is a choice and | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
whatever the people decide is right. Do you think it is more democratic | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
Western Mark I don't have a fixed view. We had a referendum in 2001 | :56:12. | :56:21. | |
and we say no and I don't think there is a great appetite to revisit | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
it. If there is, local people can petition for that. It is not | :56:26. | :56:32. | |
something that people raise with me. They are more worried about | :56:33. | :56:39. | |
unemployment and jobs. Look at Middlesbrough, it is almost | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
impossible for one individual to make a transformational difference | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
to an area, isn't it? We had a referendum on it again in September | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
and people voted in favour of the idea of having an elected mayor in | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
Middlesbrough. The alternative perhaps was weighing on their mind, | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
not to be to party political, but otherwise it would be the Labour | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
group leader. Do think the public are enthusiastic about this idea? In | :57:08. | :57:14. | |
Middlesbrough. That is fine. How people choose to have their area | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
governed is entirely up to them. They have been given the choice and | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
that is the main thing. Middlesbrough have gone for it. We | :57:27. | :57:29. | |
will see what happens in May. Now, there's been a major falling | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
out between the Thirsk and Malton MP Anne McIntosh and sections of her | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
constituency party. It all culminated on Friday in an attempt | :57:37. | :57:40. | |
to have her de`selected. Here's Mark with the outcome of | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
that, and the rest of the week's news. | :57:45. | :57:52. | |
Anne McIntosh will not be the Conservative Party's candidate at | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
the next general election following the... | :57:56. | :58:02. | |
And inquiry into the alleged sexual exploitation of women and girls on | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
Tyneside will not be undermined by police cuts according to the Home | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
Secretary Theresa May. She responded to concerns from a Newcastle MP. | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
Will she assure that to me that Northumbria will have the resources | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
it needs to pursue this critical investigation? The Government says | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
it cannot pay for a clean`up at the River Tyne. Newcastle MP Nick Brown | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
says a solution needs to be found. The site to this day causes a | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
significant amount of water pollution in the adjacent River Tyne | :58:38. | :58:40. | |
as well as posing a risk to human health. The Lords have voted for a | :58:41. | :58:50. | |
ban on smoking in cars with children. | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
Let's talk more about smoking in cars. Will, where do you stand on | :58:56. | :59:03. | |
this? Do we need another law? The advertising valuations that have | :59:04. | :59:13. | |
happened `` evaluations, have had some effect. There was evidence that | :59:14. | :59:16. | |
what was being done was starting to be quite effective. Do we need a | :59:17. | :59:24. | |
law? I would go in favour of a law in terms of a free vote. I love my | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
parents dearly and they love me, but I ran the Saturday morning headaches | :59:29. | :59:34. | |
I got from a car full of cigarette smoke. With you want them to be | :59:35. | :59:44. | |
fined? Of course, they wore a seat belt, too, because the law said so. | :59:45. | :59:51. | |
Bridget, how would you vote? I support this. I think this is the | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
next logical step in stopping young people smoking in the first place. | :59:57. | :00:02. | |
One of my colleagues has been at the forefront of pressing for this | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
change and I think it is a welcome step. We know the impact it has on | :00:06. | :00:11. | |
health. Children don't have the choice. Bullets not take up a lot of | :00:12. | :00:21. | |
police time? `` will it not? It is an offence to use a mobile phone, | :00:22. | :00:29. | |
that is enforced. It is about the change in culture that takes place. | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
When smoking was banned in public places, we need to see it coming | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
down. And that's about it from us for this | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
week. Stockton South MP James Wharton may | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
have lost his referendum bill. But he's still got reason to celebrate | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
as winner of the Dods' Rising Star political award ` chosen in a vote | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
of all MPs and members of the House of Lords. , gradually and is. `` con | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
graduations. We always said he'd go far. | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
We're back same time, same place, next Sunday when we'll have a | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
special report looking at what impact the so`called | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
Not a complete denial! Hopefully a Conservative mayor again. | :01:03. | :01:12. | |
Not a good week for David Cameron on the tricky European front last week. | :01:13. | :01:19. | |
President Hollande said he was not interested in major treaty reform | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
for 2017. That is when Mr Cameron hopes to hold his in-out referendum. | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
And the private member's bill to put that referendum on the statute bill | :01:29. | :01:33. | |
was killed by Labour and Lib Dem peers in the Lords. James Wharton | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
was the Tory MP behind the bill and he joins me now. What happens now? | :01:37. | :01:45. | |
It is out of my hands what happens now, because Labour and the Liberal | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
Democrats conspired in the Lords to kill off my bill. One of the options | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
is for another private member to bring a bill forward when they have | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
the next private member's bill at, and we can try again. The prime | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
minister has indicated that he will support that. But whatever happens, | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
it will be in the Conservative manifesto at the next election. Do | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
you accept that cost this is Tory policy and not government policy | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
that the government policy elite macro cannot bring forward a bill? | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
That is the problem. The Liberal Democrats, despite having promised a | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
referendum in their manifesto at the last election, now will not allow | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
government time for a bill to enshrine that in law. That was why I | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
brought it forward as a private member's bill. David Cameron and the | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
Conservative Party through everything behind that. To many | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
people's surprise, we got it through all the House of Commons stages | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
Sadly, to their discredit, Labour and Liberal Democrat peers, doing | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
the bidding of their masters in the Commons, is conspired to kill it. Do | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
you accept that it is Conservative policy, but not government policy, | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
that you could not use the Parliament act to get this through | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
the Lords? That is not the case The Parliament act is clear that if a | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
public bill passes through the House of Commons twice in one | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
Parliamentary period, there is a certain amount of time that has to | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
be between both bills being presented. There are some procedural | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
steps to be overcome, but there is no legal reason why the Parliament | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
act could not come into effect. I was talking about you not having a | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
majority in this case. That remains to be seen. We saw previously that | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
Labour and the Liberal Democrats sent enough people to frustrate its | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
progress to make it as difficult as possible, but not huge numbers to | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
vote against it. On a Friday, huge numbers of MPs do not attend | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
normally. Getting that number might prove difficult. The Parliament act, | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
which is a bit of an atomic bomb in constitutional terms, if that was | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
used, they would turn up to vote against you. Is it not the case that | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
after the countryside Alliance tried to involve the courts in the hunting | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
ban that it was made clear that the Parliament act was not to be used | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
for constitutional issues? I don't think we know how many would turn up | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
and we don't know how they would vote. One of the things that has | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
been revealed as I have gone through the process of getting this bill to | :04:19. | :04:20. | |
get a referendum through the Commons is that there are big splits in the | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
Labour Party. One of the reasons we did not see them turning up in large | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
numbers to stop this bill from happening was that Ed Miliband knew | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
that if he tried to lead his own MPs through the lobbies to block a | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
bill, the only purpose of which is to let Britain decides to give | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
people a say on membership of the union, a lot of his MPs may not have | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
followed him. It is all fantasy politics anyway. The French | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
president has made clear that he has no interest in treaty change this | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
side of 2017. He would need a referendum as well . And he needs | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
that like a hole and had. Merkel is not keen, as she is in coalition | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
with the social Democrats. Without the French or the Germans, it will | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
not happen, end of story. The policy is that we will try to negotiate on | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
getting a better deal. I hear what you are saying, but I don't | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
recognise it as reality. We have a strong bargaining position. But | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
whatever the result of that negotiation, it will be put in an | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
in-out vote to the Britain people. It is time people were allowed to | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
decide. It has been over a generation since we last had a say. | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
David Cameron has committed to delivering that referendum. The | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
Conservative Party will have it in our next manifesto for the election. | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
Whatever happens to my bill or any other of the bill that comes | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
forward. If people want a referendum, the only party that can | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
deliver that in British politics is the Conservatives. Let me bring the | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
panel in. Nick, where is this going? It is clear to me and anyone who | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
follows European politics that there is no appetite for major treaty | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
change in the short run, particularly for the kind of major | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
changes that Vista Cameron says he is going to get, and yet the Tories | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
are talking about Europe again when they should be talking about the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
economy. And Francois Hollande is looking at 2017, the year we are | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
meant to have this referendum. There will be a French presidential | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
election going on, and Nicolas Sarkozy will be back in play by | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
then. But James has an interesting point, which is that it is down to | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
Angela Merkel. She would be more receptive to David Cameron's ideas | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
of reform than people assume. She has looked over the edge at a Europe | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
without the UK and said, that is not acceptable, and I am willing to pay | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
a price, not any price, but a price to keep the UK in the European | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
Union. And the French, because the UK and France are the only serious | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
military powers in Europe, will eventually come to that position. So | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
there is more support for David Cameron than people assume. The | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
French are also not a strong position in terms of the euro and | :07:09. | :07:17. | |
French economy. The Foreign Office seem a bit more optimistic about | :07:18. | :07:27. | |
it. Of course they are. Douglas Hurd once told me, we are winning the | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
arguments on the single currency. Of course anything from the Foreign | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
Office comes with a health warning, but if David Cameron had won a | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
majority and was determined to renegotiate, he is in a strong | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
position with Merkel. There is a possibility that the French could | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
eventually be talked around. So it is not entirely bleak on that front | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
for Cameron. When do the Tory party managers say, look, stop banging on | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
about Europe again? The economy is going away. We still have an | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
electoral mountain to climb. Let's just talk about that and not be | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
divided. They should have done that some time ago. It is already too | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
late. The Tories need a seven point lead in the polls to get image are | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
tea. The way things are, that would require a huge change from where we | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
are now . It is very unlikely to happen. So all this is happening in | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
some bizarre imaginary space with wonderful rainbows and sunshine But | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
we can detect the beginnings of a shift in the last couple of weeks. | :08:35. | :08:42. | |
If you talk to Tory backbenchers, Douglas Carswell is now saying in | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
public that it is time to stop the fighting. If they are to get even | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
close to winning the election, they can't do it if they are all against | :08:53. | :09:00. | |
each other. I don't think it is an imaginary space. It is likely that | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
David Cameron will have the largest party in the election. If it is a | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
hung parliament and it is the Liberal Democrats and the | :09:09. | :09:10. | |
Conservative Party, David Cameron will save to Nick Clegg we gave you | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
an AV referendum, I am having this referendum. And it will be difficult | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
for Nick to say no. Let me go back to Mr Wharton. You are going to get | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
a referendum in the manifesto. Other than Ken Clarke, everybody wants it. | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
So why don't you just banked that and get behind the leadership | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
Institute causing endless problems and coming across as a Europe | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
accessed, divided party? I am absolutely behind the leadership. | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
David Cameron announced the policy I am trying to bring forward in this | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
bill. It is in line with the speech he gave this time last year. But | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
getting that commitment into law will help to kick-start the | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
negotiation process and mean everyone will know where we stand. | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
But whatever happens, the Conservatives are committed to | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
delivering a referendum. And to address the point that we talk about | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
Europe too much, that is not the case. We have a good message on the | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
economy, on tackling immigration and reforming welfare. There is more to | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
do, but this is also an important part of policy. But at a time when | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
the economic news seems to be turning in your direction, you are | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
talking about the European referendum. Your backbench | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
colleagues are trying to change the Immigration Bill every which way. | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
Dominic Rather is putting in an amendment is and Mr Nigel Mills has | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
been on this programme, putting in amendments that are clearly illegal. | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
How is that helpful? The fact is that we are in a coalition, so there | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
are areas of policy where Conservatives might want to go | :10:57. | :10:58. | |
further and we are not able to do that. In other areas, we are | :10:59. | :11:05. | |
delivering good reforms. But this is not a matter of going further. The | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
mill 's amendment was clearly a contravention of the Treaty of Rome. | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
That is where you get the headlines from. Some of your colleagues have a | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
death wish? Would they rather have a Miliband government if the choice is | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
an impure Cameron one instead? I don't think anyone in their right | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
mind would rather have a Miliband government. Then why are they | :11:30. | :11:36. | |
behaving that way? We have had some disagreements into the leak and | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
debate within the party, but it was talked about on the panel just now. | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
The Conservative Party is behind David Cameron and focused on winning | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
the next election. Europe is one part of that. We have policies in a | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
range of areas, but we are getting back on the right track. Thank you | :11:53. | :12:00. | |
for being patient with us. Is this ghost story going to go | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
somewhere? Mr Laws is talking through surrogates at the moment, | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
but there is a strategy by the Lib Dems make these differential points | :12:09. | :12:17. | |
now. I think it is fantastic coalition sports and entertaining, | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
but in terms of out there, it has almost no traction whatsoever. I | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
don't think any voters know who Baroness Morgan is and it sounds | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
like one but politicians shouting at another bunch of politicians about | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
their ability to give each other jobs. There is a larger point about | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
the way Michael Gove runs his government. He is notoriously a very | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
polite man surrounded by Rottweiler is, his advisers. He has made | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
enemies of a lot of people in the media, and some of that will come | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
back on him in the next 18 months. We shall see if Mr Laws himself | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
sticks his head above the parapet. That is it for this week. The Daily | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
Politics is on throughout the week at midday on BBC Two, except on | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
Wednesdays, when we are on at 11:30am. I will be back next week at | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
the same time. Remember, if it is Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:09. | :13:15. |