29/10/2017 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


29/10/2017

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Morning, everyone.

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I'm Sarah Smith, and welcome

to The Sunday Politics,

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where we always bring you everything

you need to know to understand

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what's going on in politics.

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Coming up on today's programme...

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The Government says

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the international trade minister

Mark Garnier will be investigated

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following newspaper allegations

of inappropriate behaviour

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towards a female staff member.

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We'll have the latest.

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The Prime Minister says she can

agree a deal with the EU and plenty

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of time for Parliament to vote on it

before we leave in 2018. Well

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Parliament play ball? New evidence

cast out on the

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Warnings of a new health

scandal affecting thousands

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of women in our region.

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Labour calls for an enquiry.

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And should taxpayers' money be used

to buy Teesside airport?

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on from the abortion act white MPs

are lobbying the Home Secretary to

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stop the alleged harassment of women

attending abortion clinics.

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All that coming up in the programme.

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And with me today to help make sense

of all the big stories,

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Julia Hartley-Brewer,

Steve Richards and Anne McElvoy.

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Some breaking news this morning.

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The Government has announced

that it will investigate

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whether the International Trade

Minister Mark Garnier broke

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the Ministerial Code

following allegations

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of inappropriate behaviour.

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It comes after reports in the Mail

on Sunday which has spoken to one

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of Mr Garnier's former employees.

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News of the investigation

was announced by the Health

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Secretary Jeremy Hunt

on the Andrew Marr show earlier.

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The stories, if they are true,

are totally unacceptable

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and the Cabinet Office will be

conducting an investigation

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as to whether there has been

a breach of the ministerial code

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in this particular case.

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But as you know the

facts are disputed.

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This is something that covers

behaviour by MPs of all parties

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and that is why the other thing

that is going to happen

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is that today Theresa May

is going to write to John Bercow,

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the Speaker of the House of Commons,

to ask for his advice as to how

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we change that culture.

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That was Jeremy Hunt a little

earlier. I want to turn to the panel

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to make sense of this news. This is

the government taking these

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allegations quite seriously.

What

has changed in this story is they

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used to be a bit of delay while

people work out what they should say

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about it, how seriously to take it.

As you see now a senior cabinet

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member out there, Jeremy Hunt, with

an instant response. He does have

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the worry of whether the facts are

disputed, but what they want to be

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seen doing is to do something very

quickly. In the past they would say

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it was all part of the rough and

tumble of Westminster.

Mark Garnier

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does not deny these stories, which

is that he asked an employee to buy

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sex toys, but he said it was just

high jinks and it was taken out of

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context. Is this the sort of thing

that a few years ago in a different

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environment would be investigated?

Not necessarily quite the frenzy

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that it is nowadays. The combination

of social media, all the Sunday

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political programmes were ministers

have to go on armed with a response

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means that you get these we have to

be seen to be doing something. That

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means there is this Cabinet Office

investigation. You pointed out to us

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before the programme that he was not

a minister before this happened. It

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does not matter whether he says yes,

know I did this or did not,

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something has to be seen to be done.

Clearly ministers today are being

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armed with that bit of information

and that Theresa May will ask John

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Bercow the speaker to look into the

whole culture of Parliament in this

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context. That is the response to

this kind of frenzy.

If we do live

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in an environment where something

has to be seen to be done, does that

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always mean the right thing gets

done?

Absolutely not. We are in

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witch hunt territory. All of us work

in the Commons over many years and

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anyone would think it was a scene

out of Benny Hill or a carry on

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film. Sadly it is not that much fun

and it is rather dull and dreary.

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Yes, there are sex pests, yes, there

is sexual harassment, but the idea

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this is going on on a huge scale is

nonsense.

Doesn't matter whether it

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is a huge scale or not? Or just a

few instances?

Any workplace where

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you have the mixing of work and

social so intertwined and you throw

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a huge amount of alcohol and late

night and people living away from

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home you will have this happen.

That

does not make it OK.

It makes sexual

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harassment not OK as it is not

anywhere. This happens to men as

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well and if they have an issue into

it there are employment tribunal 's

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and they can contact lawyers. I do

not think this should be a matter of

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the speaker, it should be someone

completely independent of any party.

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People think MPs are employees of

the party or the Commons, they are

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not.

Because they are self-employed

to whom do you go if you are a

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researcher?

That has to be

clarified. I agree you need a much

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clearer line of reporting. It was a

bit like the situation when we came

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into the media many years ago, the

Punic wars in my case! You were not

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quite sure who to go to. If you work

worried that it might impede your

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career, and you had to talk to

people who work next to you, that is

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just one example, but in the Commons

people do not know who they should

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go to. Where Theresa May might be

making a mistake, it is the same

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mistake when it was decided to

investigate through Levinson the

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culture of the media which was like

nailing jelly to a wall. Look at the

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culture of anybody's job and the

environment they are in and there is

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usually a lot wrong with it. When

you try and make it general, they

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are not trying to blame individuals,

or it say they need a better line on

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reporting of sexual harassment,

which I support, the Commons is a

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funny place and it is a rough old

trade and you are never going to

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iron out the human foibles of that.

Diane Abbott was talking about this

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earlier.

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When I first went into Parliament so

many of those men had been to all

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boys boarding schools and had really

difficult attitudes towards women.

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The world has moved on and

middle-aged women are less likely

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than middle-aged men to believe that

young research are irresistibly

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attracted to them. We have seen the

issues and we have seen one of our

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colleagues been suspended for quite

unacceptable language.

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That is a point, Jarrod O'Mara, a

Labour MP who has had the whip

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suspended, this goes across all

parties.

The idea that there is a

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left or right divide over this is

absurd. This is a cultural issue. In

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the media and in a lot of other

institutions if this is going to

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develop politically, the frenzy will

carry on for a bit and other names

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will come out over the next few

days, not just the two we have

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mentioned so far in politics. But it

also raises questions about how

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candidates are selected for example.

There has been a huge pressure for

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the centre to keep out of things. I

bet from now on there will be much

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greater scrutiny of all candidates

and tweets will have to be looked at

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and all the rest of it.

Selecting

candidates is interesting. Miriam

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Gonzalez, Nick Clegg's wife, says

that during that election they knew

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about Jarrod O'Mara and the Lib Dems

knew about it, so it is difficult to

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suggest the Labour Party did not as

well.

There is very clear evidence

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the Labour Party did know. But we

are in a situation of how perfect

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and well-behaved does everyone have

to be? If you look at past American

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presidents, JFK and Bill Clinton,

these men were sex pest

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extraordinaire, with totally

inappropriate behaviour on a regular

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basis. There are things you are not

allowed to say if you are feminists.

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Young women are really attracted to

powerful men. I was busted for the

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idea that there are young women in

the House of commons who are

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throwing themselves at middle-aged,

potbellied, balding, older men. We

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need to focus on the right things.

When it is unwanted, harassing,

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inappropriate and criminal,

absolutely, you come down like a

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tonne of bricks. It is not just

because there are more women in the

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Commons, it is because there are

more men married to women like us.

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We have to leave it there.

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As attention turns in

Westminster to the hundreds

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of amendments put down on the EU

Withdrawal Bill, David Davis has

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caused a stir this week by saying

it's possible Parliament won't get

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a vote on the Brexit deal

until after March 2019 -

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when the clock runs out

and we leave the EU.

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Let's take a look at how

the controversy played out.

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And which point do you envisage

Parliament having a vote?

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As soon as possible thereafter.

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This Parliament?

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As soon as possible

possible thereafter, yeah.

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As soon as possible thereafter.

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So, the vote in Parliament...

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The other thing...

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Could be after March 2019?

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It could be, yeah, it could be.

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The...

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It depends when it concludes.

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Mr Barnier, remember,

has said he'd like...

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Sorry, the vote of our Parliament,

the UK Parliament, could be

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after March 2019?

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Yes, it could be.

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Could be.

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The thing to member...

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Which would be...

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Well, it can't come

before we have the deal.

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You said that it is POSSIBLE that

Parliament night not vote

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on the deal until AFTER

the end of March 2019.

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I'm summarising correctly

what you said...?

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Yeah, that's correct.

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In the event we don't do

the deal until then, yeah.

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Can the Prime Minister please

explain how it's possible

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to have a meaningful vote

on something that's

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already taken place?

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As the honourable gentleman knows,

we're in negotiations

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with the European Union, but I am

confident that the timetable under

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the Lisbon Treaty does give time

until March 2019

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for the negotiations to take place.

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But I'm confident, because it is in

the interests of both sides,

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it's not just this Parliament that

wants to have a vote on that deal,

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but actually there will be

ratification by other parliaments,

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that we will be able to achieve that

agreement and that negotiation

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in time for this Parliament

to have a vote that we committed to.

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We are working to reach

an agreement on the final deal

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in good time before we leave

the European Union in March 2019.

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Clearly, we cannot say

for certain at this stage

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when this will be agreed.

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But as Michel Barnier said,

he hopes to get a draft deal

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agreed by October 2018,

and that's our aim is well.

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agreed by October 2018,

and that's our aim as well.

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I'm joined now by the former

Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary

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Benn, who is the chair

of the Commons Brexit Committee,

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which David Davis was

giving evidence to.

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Good morning.

When you think a

parliamentary vote should take place

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in order for it to be meaningful?

It

has to be before we leave the

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European Union. Michel Barnier said

at the start of the negotiations

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that he wants to wrap them up by

October of next year, so we have

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only got 12 months left, the clock

is ticking and there is a huge

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amount of ground to cover.

You do

not think there is any point in

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having the vote the week before we

leave because you could then not go

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and re-negotiate?

That would not be

acceptable. We will not be given a

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bit of paper and told to take it or

leave it. But the following day

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Steve Baker, also a minister in the

department, told our committee that

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the government now accepts that in

order to implement transitional

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arrangements that it is seeking, it

will need separate legislation. I

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put the question to him if you are

going to need separate legislation

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to do that, why don't you have a

separate bill to implement the

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withdrawal agreement rather than

seeking to use the powers the

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government is proposing to take in

the EU withdrawal bill.

If we stick

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to the timing, you have said you do

not think it is possible to

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negotiate a trade deal in the next

12 months. You say the only people

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who think that is possible British

ministers. If you do not believe we

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can get a deal negotiated, how can

we get a vote on it in 12 months'

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time?

If things go well, and there

is still a risk of no agreement

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which would be disastrous for the

economy and the country, if

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things go there will be a deal on

the divorce issues, there will be a

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deal on the nature of the

transitional arrangement and the

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government is to set out how it

thinks that will work, and then an

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agreement between the UK and the 27

member states saying, we will now

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negotiate a new trade and market

access arrangement, and new

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association agreement between the

two parties, and that will be done

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in the transition period. Parliament

will be voting in those

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circumstances on a deal which leads

to the door being open.

But we would

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be outside the EU at that point, so

how meaningful can vote be where you

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take it or leave it if we have

already left the EU? Surely this has

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to happen before March 2019 for it

to make a difference?

I do not think

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it is possible to negotiate all of

the issues that will need to be

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covered in the time available.

Then

it is not possible to have a

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meaningful vote on it?

Parliament

will have to have a look at the deal

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presented to it. It is likely to be

a mix agreement so the approval

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process in the rest of Europe,

unlike the Article 50 agreement,

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which will be a majority vote in the

European Parliament and in the

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British Parliament, every single

Parliament will have a vote on it,

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so it will be a more complex process

anyway, but I do not think that is

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the time to get all of that sorted

between now and October next year.

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Whether it is before or after we

have left the EU, the government

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have said it is a take it or leave

it option and it is the Noel Edmonds

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option, deal or no Deal, you say yes

or no to it. You cannot send them

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back to re-negotiate.

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If it is a separate piece of

legislation, when Parliament has a

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chance to shape the nature of that

legislation.

But it can't change

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what has been negotiated with the

EU?

Well, you could say to the

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government, we're happy with this

but was not happy about that chukka

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here's some fresh instructions, go

back in and...

It seems to me what

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they want is the maximum access to

the single market for the lowest

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possible tariffs, whilst able to

control migration. If they've got to

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get the best deal that they can on

that, how on earth is the Labour

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Party, saying we want a bit more,

owing to persuade the other 27?

We

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certainly don't want the lowest

possible tariffs, we want no tariffs

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are taught. My personal view is

that, has made a profound mistake in

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deciding that it wants to leave the

customs union. If you want to help

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deal with the very serious question

of the border between Northern

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Ireland and the Republic of Ireland,

the way you do that is to stay in

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the customs union and I hope, will

change its mind.

But the Labour

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Party is simply saying in the House

of Commons, we want a better deal

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than what, has been able to get?

It

depends how the negotiations unfold.

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, has ended up on the transitional

arrangements in the place that Keir

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Starmer set out on behalf of the

shadow cabinet in August, when he

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said, we will need to stay in the

single market and the customs union

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for the duration of the transition,

and I think that is the position,

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has now reached. It has not been

helped by differences of view within

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the Cabinet, and a lot of time has

passed and there's proved time left

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and we have not even got on to the

negotiations. -- there's very little

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time left.

On phase two, the labour

Party have set out six clear tests,

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and two of them are crucial. You say

you want the exact same benefits we

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currently have in the customs union

but you also want to be able to

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ensure the fair migration to control

immigration, basically, which does

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sound a bit like having your cake

and eating it. You say that you will

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vote against any deal that doesn't

give you all of that, the exact same

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benefits of the single market, and

allowing you to control migration.

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But you say no deal would be

catastrophic if so it seems to me

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you're unlikely to get the deal that

you could vote for but you don't

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want to vote for no deal?

We

absolutely don't want a no deal.

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Businesses have sent a letter to the

Prime Minister saying that a

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transition is essential because the

possibility of a no deal and no

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transitional would be very damaging

for the economy. We fought the

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general election on a policy of

seeking to retain the benefits of

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the single market and the customs

union. Keir Starmer said on behalf

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of the shadow government that as far

as the longer term arrangements are

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concerned, that should leave all

options on the table, because it is

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the end that you're trying to

achieve and you then find the means

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to support it. So we're setting out

very clearly those tests.

If you

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were to vote down an agreement

because it did not meet your tests,

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and there was time to send, back to

the EU to get a better deal, then

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you would have significantly

weakened their negotiating hand

0:18:500:18:52

chukka that doesn't help them?

I

don't think, has deployed its

0:18:520:18:57

negotiating hand very strongly thus

far. Because we had a general

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election which meant that we lost

time that we would have used for

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negotiating. We still don't know

what kind of long-term trade and

0:19:040:19:08

market access deal, wants. The Prime

Minister says, I don't want a deal

0:19:080:19:15

like Canada and I don't want a deal

like the European Economic Area. But

0:19:150:19:19

we still don't know what kind of

deal they want. With about 12 months

0:19:190:19:23

to go, the other thing, needs to do

is to set out very clearly above all

0:19:230:19:27

for the benefit of the other 27

European countries, what kind of

0:19:270:19:32

deal it wants. When I travel to

Europe and talk to those involved in

0:19:320:19:35

the negotiations, you see other

leaders saying, we don't actually

0:19:350:19:41

know what Britain wants. With a year

to go it is about time we made that

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clear.

One related question on the

European Union - you spoke in your

0:19:440:19:50

famous speech in Syria about the

international brigades in Spain, and

0:19:500:19:54

I wonder if your solidarity with

them leads you to think that the UK

0:19:540:19:58

Government should be recognising

Catalonia is an independent state?

0:19:580:20:01

No, I don't think so. It is a very

difficult and potentially dangerous

0:20:010:20:06

situation in Catalonia at the

moment. Direct rule from Madrid is

0:20:060:20:11

not a long-term solution. There

needs to be a negotiation, and

0:20:110:20:16

elections will give Catalonia the

chance to take that decision, but I

0:20:160:20:20

am not clear what the declaration of

independence actually means. Are

0:20:200:20:27

they going to be borders, is they're

going to be an army? There will have

0:20:270:20:31

to be some agreement. Catalonia has

already had a high degree of

0:20:310:20:34

autonomy. It may like some more, and

it seems to me if you look at the

0:20:340:20:39

experience here in the United

Kingdom, that is the way to go, not

0:20:390:20:44

a constitutional stand-off. And I

really hope nobody is charged with

0:20:440:20:47

rebellion, because actually that

would make matters worse.

0:20:470:20:51

Now, the Government has this

week reopened the public

0:20:510:20:55

consultation on plans for a third

runway at Heathrow.

0:20:550:20:58

While ministers are clear

the £18 billion project

0:20:580:21:00

is still the preferred option,

new data raises further questions

0:21:000:21:02

about the environmental

impact of expansion,

0:21:020:21:03

and offers an improved

economic case for a second

0:21:030:21:06

runway at Gatwick instead.

0:21:060:21:07

So, with opponents on all sides

of the Commons, does the Government

0:21:070:21:10

still have the votes to get

the plans off the ground?

0:21:100:21:12

Here's Elizabeth Glinka.

0:21:120:21:21

The debate over the expansion

of Heathrow has been

0:21:260:21:28

going on for decades.

0:21:280:21:29

Plans for a third runway

were first introduced

0:21:290:21:31

by the Labour government in 2003.

0:21:310:21:33

Then, after spending millions

of pounds, finally, in 2015,

0:21:330:21:37

the airport commission recommended

that those plans go ahead,

0:21:370:21:42

and the government position

appeared to be fixed.

0:21:420:21:45

But, of course, since then,

we've had a general election.

0:21:450:21:48

The Government have lost

their Commons majority.

0:21:480:21:52

And with opposition on both front

benches, the Parliamentary

0:21:520:21:55

arithmetic looks a little bit up

in the air.

0:21:550:21:59

A lot has changed since the airport

commission produced its report,

0:21:590:22:02

and that don't forget

was the bedrock for the Government's

0:22:020:22:05

decision, that's why the government

supposedly made the decision

0:22:050:22:07

that it made.

0:22:070:22:08

But most of the assumptions

made in that report have

0:22:080:22:11

been undermined since,

by data on passenger numbers,

0:22:110:22:13

on economic benefits, and more

than anything, on pollution.

0:22:130:22:16

There's demand from international

carriers to get into Heathrow.

0:22:160:22:19

More and more people want to fly.

0:22:190:22:22

And after the referendum,

connectivity post-Brexit

0:22:220:22:25

is going to be absolutely critical

to the UK economy, so if anything,

0:22:250:22:29

I think the case is stronger

for expansion at Heathrow.

0:22:290:22:35

A vote on expansion had been due

to take place this summer.

0:22:350:22:37

But with Westminster somewhat

distracted, that didn't happen.

0:22:370:22:39

Now, fresh data means

the Government has had to reopen

0:22:390:22:42

the public consultation.

0:22:420:22:48

But it maintains the case

for Heathrow is as strong as ever,

0:22:480:22:51

delivering benefits of up

to £74 billion to the wider economy.

0:22:510:22:57

And in any case, the Government

says, action must be taken,

0:22:570:22:59

as all five of London's airports

will be completely

0:22:590:23:04

full by the mid-2030s.

0:23:040:23:08

Still, the new research does cast

an alternative expansion at Gatwick

0:23:080:23:10

in a more favourable economic light,

while showing Heathrow

0:23:100:23:14

is now less likely to meet

its environmental targets.

0:23:140:23:22

Campaigners like these in Hounslow

sense the wind is shifting.

0:23:220:23:26

We're feeling encouraged,

because we see all kinds

0:23:260:23:29

of weaknesses in the argument.

0:23:290:23:31

Certainly, quite a few MPs,

I think certainly Labour MPs,

0:23:310:23:34

are beginning to think perhaps it's

not such a great idea

0:23:340:23:37

to have a third runway.

0:23:370:23:39

Their MP is convinced colleagues

can now be persuaded

0:23:390:23:41

to see things their way.

0:23:410:23:44

The Labour Party quite

rightly set four key tests

0:23:440:23:46

for a third runway at Heathrow.

0:23:460:23:49

And in my view,

Heathrow is not able...

0:23:490:23:52

The Heathrow option is not able

to pass any of those.

0:23:520:23:56

So, I see a lot of colleagues

in the Labour Party around

0:23:560:23:59

the country beginning

to think twice.

0:23:590:24:01

And if you look at the cross-party

MPs supportin this anti-Heathrow

0:24:010:24:07

And if you look at the cross-party

MPs supporting this anti-Heathrow

0:24:070:24:10

protest this week, you will see

some familiar faces.

0:24:100:24:13

You know my position -

as the constituency MP,

0:24:130:24:15

I'm totally opposed.

0:24:150:24:16

I think this is another indication

of just the difficulties

0:24:160:24:19

the Government have got off

of implementing this policy.

0:24:190:24:21

I don't think it's going to happen,

I just don't think

0:24:210:24:23

it's going to happen.

0:24:230:24:24

So, if some on the Labour

front bench are, shall

0:24:240:24:27

we say, not supportive,

what about the other side?

0:24:270:24:30

In a free vote, we could have had up

to 60 Conservative MPs

0:24:300:24:33

voting against expansion,

that's the number that is normally

0:24:330:24:35

used and I think it's right.

0:24:350:24:36

In the circumstances where it

requires an active rebellion,

0:24:360:24:38

the numbers would be fewer.

0:24:380:24:40

I can't tell you what that

number is, but I can tell

0:24:400:24:43

you that there are people right

the way through the party,

0:24:430:24:46

from the backbenches

to the heart of the government,

0:24:460:24:48

who will vote against

Heathrow expansion.

0:24:480:24:49

And yet the SNP, whose Commons

votes could prove vital,

0:24:490:24:53

are behind the Heathrow plan,

which promises more

0:24:530:24:55

connecting flights.

0:24:550:24:56

And other supporters are convinced

they have the numbers.

0:24:560:25:00

There is a majority of members

of Parliament that support Heathrow

0:25:000:25:03

expansion, and when that is put

to the test, whenever that will be,

0:25:030:25:06

I think that will be

clearly demonstrated.

0:25:060:25:08

Any vote on this issue

won't come until next summer.

0:25:080:25:11

For both sides, yet more time

to argue about weather

0:25:110:25:13

the plans should take off

or be permanently grounded.

0:25:130:25:20

Elizabeth Glinka there.

0:25:240:25:25

And I'm joined now by the former

Cabinet minister Theresa Villiers,

0:25:250:25:28

who oversaw aviation policy

as a transport minister

0:25:280:25:30

under David Cameron.

0:25:300:25:37

Thanks for coming in. You have made

your opposition to a third runway at

0:25:370:25:42

Heathrow consistently clear. , have

reopened this consultation but it is

0:25:420:25:46

still clearly their preferred

option?

It is but what I have always

0:25:460:25:50

asked is, why try to build a new

runway at Heathrow when you can

0:25:500:25:53

build one at Gatwick in half the

time, for half the cost and with a

0:25:530:25:56

tiny fraction of the environment

will cost average is that true,

0:25:560:26:00

though? Private finance is already

to go at Heathrow, because that's

0:26:000:26:04

where people want to do it and

that's where the private backers

0:26:040:26:07

want to put it. It would take much

longer to get the private finance

0:26:070:26:11

for Gatwick? Part of that private

finance is passengers of the future,

0:26:110:26:16

but also, the costs of the surface

transport needed to expand Heathrow

0:26:160:26:21

is phenomenal. I mean, TfL estimates

vary between £10 billion and £15

0:26:210:26:29

billion. And there's no suggestion

that those private backers are going

0:26:290:26:32

to meet those costs. So, this is a

hugely expensive project as well as

0:26:320:26:37

one which will create very

significant damage.

Heathrow is

0:26:370:26:41

ultimately where passengers and

airlines want to go to, isn't it?

0:26:410:26:44

Every slot is practically full.

Every time a new one comes up, it is

0:26:440:26:49

up immediately, it's a very popular

airport. Gatwick is not where they

0:26:490:26:54

want to go?

There are many airlines

and passengers who do want to fly

0:26:540:26:58

from Gatwick, and all the forecasts

indicate that a new runway there

0:26:580:27:02

would be full of planes very

rapidly. But I think the key thing

0:27:020:27:06

is that successive elements have

said, technology will deliver a way

0:27:060:27:11

to resolve the around noise and air

quality. I don't have any confidence

0:27:110:27:17

that science has demonstrated that

technology will deliver those

0:27:170:27:22

solutions to these very serious

environmental limbs which have

0:27:220:27:26

stopped Heathrow expansion for

decades.

Jim Fitzpatrick in the film

0:27:260:27:28

was mentioning that people think

there is a need for even more

0:27:280:27:33

collectivity in Britain post-Brexit.

We know that business has been

0:27:330:27:36

crying out for more routes, they

really think it hurts business

0:27:360:27:40

expansion that we don't get on with

this. More consultation is just

0:27:400:27:44

going to lead to more delay, isn't

it?

This is a hugely controversial

0:27:440:27:48

decision. There is a reason why

people have been talking about

0:27:480:27:51

expanding Heathrow for 50 years and

it is never happened, it's because

0:27:510:27:55

it's a bad idea. So, inevitably the

legal processes are very complex.

0:27:550:27:59

One of my anxieties about, pursuing

this option is that potentially it

0:27:590:28:04

means another lost decade for

airport expansion. Because the

0:28:040:28:07

problems with Heathrow expansion are

so serious, I believe that's one of

0:28:070:28:13

the reasons why I advocated, anyone

who wants a new runway in the

0:28:130:28:16

south-east should be backing Gatwick

is a much more deliverable option.

0:28:160:28:20

Let me move on to Brexit. We were

talking with Hilary Benn about a

0:28:200:28:26

meaningful vote being given to the

House of Commons chukka how

0:28:260:28:29

important do you think that is?

Of

course the Commons will vote on

0:28:290:28:32

this. The Commons is going to vote

on this many, many times. We have

0:28:320:28:38

also had a hugely important vote not

only in the referendum on the 23rd

0:28:380:28:41

of June but also on Article 50.

But

will that vote allow any changes to

0:28:410:28:45

it? Hilary Benn seemed to think that

the Commons would be able to shape

0:28:450:28:51

the deal with the vote. But actually

is it going to be, saying, take it

0:28:510:28:55

or leave it at all what we have

negotiated?

Our Prime Minister

0:28:550:29:00

negotiates on our behalf

internationally. It's

0:29:000:29:05

well-established precedent that

after an agreement is reached

0:29:050:29:07

overseas, then it is considered in

the House of Commons.

What if it was

0:29:070:29:13

voted down in the House of Commons?

Well, the legal effect of that would

0:29:130:29:17

be that we left the European Union

without any kind of deal, because

0:29:170:29:20

the key decision was on the voting

of Article 50 as an irreversible

0:29:200:29:25

decision.

Is it irreversible,

though? We understand, may have had

0:29:250:29:30

legal advice saying that Yukon

stopped the clock on Article 50.

0:29:300:29:34

Would it not be possible if the

Commons voted against to ask the

0:29:340:29:38

European Union for a little bit more

time to try and renegotiate?

There

0:29:380:29:41

is a debate about the reversibility

of Article 50. But the key point is

0:29:410:29:49

that we are all working for a good

deal for the United Kingdom and the

0:29:490:29:55

I'm concerned that some of the

amendments to the legislation are

0:29:550:29:59

not about the nature of the deal at

the end of the process, they're just

0:29:590:30:02

about frustrating the process. I

think that would be wrong. I think

0:30:020:30:09

we should respect the result of the

referendum.

Will it be by next

0:30:090:30:12

summer, so there is time for

Parliament and for other

0:30:120:30:15

parliaments?

I certainly hope that

we get that agreement between the

0:30:150:30:18

two sides, and the recent European

summit seemed to indicate a

0:30:180:30:23

willingness from the European side

to be constructive. But one point

0:30:230:30:27

where I think Hilary Benn has a

point, if we do secure agreement on

0:30:270:30:31

a transitional deal, that does

potentially give us more time to

0:30:310:30:34

work on the details of a trade

agreement. I hope we get as much as

0:30:340:30:39

possible in place before exit day.

But filling out some of that detail

0:30:390:30:43

is made easier if we can secure that

two-year transitional deal.

0:30:430:30:51

That is interesting because a lot of

Brexiteers what the deal to be done

0:30:510:30:58

by the inflammation period, it is

not a time for that.

I fully

0:30:580:31:06

recognise we need compromise, I am

keen to work with people across my

0:31:060:31:11

party in terms of spectrum of

opinion, and with other parties as

0:31:110:31:14

well to ensure we get the best

outcome.

Let me ask you briefly

0:31:140:31:19

before you go about the possible

culture of sexual harassment in the

0:31:190:31:23

House of commons and Theresa May

will write to the Speaker of the

0:31:230:31:29

House of Commons to make sure there

is a better way that people can

0:31:290:31:32

report sexual harassment in the

House of commons. Is that necessary?

0:31:320:31:37

A better procedure is needed. It is

sad it has taken this controversy to

0:31:370:31:42

push this forward. But there is a

problem with MPs who are individual

0:31:420:31:47

employers. If you work for an MP and

have a complaint against them,

0:31:470:31:52

essentially they are overseeing

their own complaints process. I

0:31:520:31:55

think a role for the House of

commons authorities in ensuring that

0:31:550:32:00

those complaints are properly dealt

with I think would be very helpful,

0:32:000:32:04

so I think the Prime Minister's

letter was a sensible move.

So you

0:32:040:32:08

think there is a culture of sexual

harassment in the House of commons?

0:32:080:32:12

I have not been subjected to it or

seen evidence of it, but obviously

0:32:120:32:19

there is anxiety and allegations

have made their way into the papers

0:32:190:32:22

and they should be treated

appropriately and properly

0:32:220:32:26

investigated.

Thank you for talking

to us.

0:32:260:32:28

Thank you for talking to us.

0:32:280:32:30

Next week the Lord Speaker's

committee publishes its final report

0:32:300:32:32

into reducing the size

of the House of Lords.

0:32:320:32:34

With over 800 members the upper

house is the second largest

0:32:340:32:37

legislative chamber in the world

after the National People's

0:32:370:32:39

Congress of China.

0:32:390:32:40

The report is expected to recommend

that new peerages should be

0:32:400:32:43

time-limited to 15 years and that

in the future political peerage

0:32:430:32:46

appointments will also be tied

to a party's election performance.

0:32:460:32:50

The government has been under

pressure to take action to cut

0:32:500:32:53

members of the unelected chamber,

where they are entitled

0:32:530:32:56

to claim an attendance

allowance of £300 a day.

0:32:560:33:00

And once again these expenses

have been in the news.

0:33:000:33:03

The Electoral Reform Society

discovered that 16 peers had claimed

0:33:030:33:06

around £400,000 without speaking

in any debates or submitting any

0:33:060:33:08

questions for an entire year.

0:33:080:33:12

One of the Lords to be

criticised was Digby Jones,

0:33:120:33:15

the crossbencher and former trade

minister, he hasn't spoken

0:33:150:33:18

in the Lords since April 2016

and has voted only seven times

0:33:180:33:21

during 2016 and 2017.

0:33:210:33:25

Yet he has claimed around

£15,000 in this period.

0:33:250:33:28

When asked what he does

in the House he said,

0:33:280:33:31

"I go in and I will invite for lunch

or meet with inward

0:33:310:33:34

investors into the country.

0:33:340:33:35

I fly the flag for Britain."

0:33:350:33:38

Well, we can speak now

to Lord Jones who joins us

0:33:380:33:41

from Stratford Upon Avon.

0:33:410:33:45

Thank you very much for talking to

us. You provide value for money in

0:33:450:33:50

the House of Lords do you think?

Definitely. I am, by the way, very

0:33:500:33:57

keen on reform. I want to see that

15 year tide. I would like to see a

0:33:570:34:02

time limit, an age limit of 75 or

80. I would like attendants

0:34:020:34:07

definitely define so the whole

public understood what people are

0:34:070:34:11

paying for and why. The £300, as a

crossbencher I get no support, and

0:34:110:34:18

nor do I want any, speech writing,

secretarial assistance, none of

0:34:180:34:26

that, and the £300 goes towards

that.

Whilst you are in there

0:34:260:34:30

because we will talk about the

reform of the Lords in general, but

0:34:300:34:35

in terms of you yourself, you say

you invite people in for lunch, is

0:34:350:34:39

it not possible for you to take part

in debates and votes and ask

0:34:390:34:42

questions at the same time?

Have you

ever listened to a debate in the

0:34:420:34:48

laws? Yes, many times.

Yes, many

times. You have to put your name

0:34:480:35:00

down in advance and you have to be

there for the whole debate.

You have

0:35:000:35:08

to be around when the vote is called

and you do not know when the book is

0:35:080:35:11

called, you have no idea when the

boat is going to be called.

This is

0:35:110:35:15

part of being a member of the House

of Lords and what it means. If you

0:35:150:35:22

are not prepared to wait or take

part in debates, why do you want to

0:35:220:35:25

be a member? It is possible to

resign from the House of Lords.

0:35:250:35:30

There are many things members of the

Lords do that does not relate to

0:35:300:35:34

parrot fashion following somebody

else, which I refuse to do, about

0:35:340:35:39

speaking to an empty chamber, or

indeed hanging on sometimes for

0:35:390:35:44

hours to vote. There are many other

things that you do. You quote me as

0:35:440:35:49

saying I will entertain at lunchtime

or show people around the House,

0:35:490:35:53

everything from schoolchildren to

inward investors. I will meet

0:35:530:35:57

ministers about big business issues

or educational issues, and at the

0:35:570:36:00

same time I will meet other members

of the Lords to get things moving.

0:36:000:36:05

None of that relates to going into

the House and getting on your hind

0:36:050:36:09

legs, although I do go in and sit

there and learn and listen to

0:36:090:36:13

others, which, if more people would

receive and not transmit, we might

0:36:130:36:19

get a better informed society. At

the same time many times I will go

0:36:190:36:23

after I have listened and I am

leaving and if I have not heard the

0:36:230:36:28

debate, I will not vote.

Voting is

an essential part of being part of a

0:36:280:36:34

legislative chamber. This is not

just an executive committee, it is a

0:36:340:36:39

legislature, surpassing that law is

essential, is it not?

Do you really

0:36:390:36:45

believe that an MP or a member of

the Lords who has not heard a moment

0:36:450:36:49

of the debate, who is then listening

to the Bell, walks in and does not

0:36:490:36:55

know which lobby, the whips tell

him, they have not heard the debate

0:36:550:36:59

and they do not know what they are

voting on and they go and do it?

0:36:590:37:04

That is your democracy? Voting seems

to be an essential part of this

0:37:040:37:10

chamber, and you have your ideas

about reforming the chamber. It

0:37:100:37:14

sounds as though you would reform

yourself out of it. You say people

0:37:140:37:18

who are not voting and who are not

taking part in debate should no

0:37:180:37:22

longer be members of the House.

I

did not say that. I said we ought to

0:37:220:37:28

redefine what attendance means and

then if you do not attend on the new

0:37:280:37:33

criteria, you do not have to come

ever again, we will give you your

0:37:330:37:37

wish. I agree attendance might mean

unless you speak, you are going.

0:37:370:37:42

Fair enough, if that is what is

agreed, yes. Sometimes I would speak

0:37:420:37:47

and sometimes I would not. If I did

not, then off I go. Similarly after

0:37:470:37:53

15 years, off you go. If you reach

75 or 80, off you go. Why do we have

0:37:530:37:59

92 members who are only there

because of daddy.

You are talking

0:37:590:38:05

about hereditary peers. You would

like to reduce the House to what

0:38:050:38:08

kind of number?

I would get it down

to 400.

You would get rid of half

0:38:080:38:15

the peers there at the moment? You

think you are active enough to

0:38:150:38:18

remain as one of the 400?

No, I said

that might well include me. Let's

0:38:180:38:26

get a set of criteria, let's push it

through, because the laws is losing

0:38:260:38:31

respect in the whole of the country

because there are too many and all

0:38:310:38:35

these things about what people pay

for. I bet most people think the

0:38:350:38:39

money you get is paid. It is not, it

is re-funding for all the things you

0:38:390:38:44

have to pay for yourself. But I

understand how respect has been lost

0:38:440:38:49

in society. Let's change it now.

Let's get it through and then, yes,

0:38:490:38:54

if you do not meet the criteria, you

have got to go and that includes me.

0:38:540:38:59

Lloyd Jones, thank you for talking

to us.

0:38:590:39:01

Lloyd Jones, thank

you for talking to us.

0:39:010:39:04

It's coming up to 11.40,

you're watching the Sunday Politics.

0:39:040:39:06

Coming up on the programme,

we'll be talking to the former

0:39:060:39:09

business minister and Conservative

MP Anna Soubry about the Brexit

0:39:090:39:12

negotiations and claims of sexual

harassment in Parliament.

0:39:120:39:22

Hello, and the warmest of welcomes

to your local part of the show.

0:39:220:39:27

Coming up, MPs warn

of a new health scandal

0:39:270:39:30

affecting tens of

thousands of women.

0:39:300:39:38

I'll be asking Labour's public

health spokeswoman, Wearside MP

0:39:380:39:40

Sharon Hodgson, why she believes

an independent enquiry is needed.

0:39:400:39:44

And taxpayers' money

was used to buy this

0:39:440:39:45

airport in Scotland.

0:39:460:39:47

So should the same happen

to Durham Tees Valley

0:39:470:39:49

Airport?

0:39:490:39:50

Well, the Tees Valley Mayor

Ben Houchen, thanks so.

0:39:500:39:52

He's here with me

in the studio today.

0:39:520:39:54

But first, there's

been the first rise

0:39:540:39:56

in spending on social care

for the elderly in seven years.

0:39:560:39:58

Yet the region's

councils say they are

0:39:580:40:00

still struggling to provide personal

help or places in care homes for all

0:40:000:40:03

of those who need them.

0:40:030:40:04

Unless this problem is sorted

out there are fears

0:40:040:40:06

the frail and elderly could get

stuck in hospital beds creating a

0:40:060:40:09

winter crisis for the NHS.

0:40:090:40:12

Sharon Hodgson, there is more money

available, partly from the

0:40:120:40:14

Government, partly it

has to be said from

0:40:140:40:16

the council taxpayer

across the

0:40:160:40:17

region as well.

0:40:170:40:18

Is that going to help

a council like Sunderland in

0:40:180:40:21

your area to cope

better this winter?

0:40:210:40:23

Well, we're not going to say no

to any extra help but it's a drop

0:40:230:40:26

in the ocean to the size

of the cuts for Sunderland.

0:40:260:40:29

My local authority, that had cuts

of £15 million since

0:40:290:40:32

2010, which is 20% of their social

care budget so any money that comes

0:40:320:40:37

in, yes, it is desperately needed

but it really is a drop in the ocean

0:40:370:40:41

because it is not enough.

0:40:410:40:45

Ben Houchen, the

Prime Minister says,

0:40:450:40:47

they are looking for a long-term

solution to this but Sharon Hodgson

0:40:470:40:51

said a lot of the councils say that

there's immediate need for even more

0:40:510:40:54

money to help councils

across the north east.

0:40:540:40:56

What would you say to that?

0:40:560:41:03

The Government and the Chancellor

committed £2 billion up

0:41:030:41:06

to 2020 of new money to social care

funding and there is an immediate £1

0:41:060:41:09

billion package available in 17-18.

0:41:090:41:10

So there's immediate

funds available.

0:41:100:41:12

But I think there's a wider issue

here we need to look at.

0:41:120:41:15

Some fundamental

reforms to social care.

0:41:150:41:16

We have a more elderly population.

0:41:160:41:20

We have people with

more complex needs.

0:41:200:41:24

The consultation that the Government

has currently put out to

0:41:240:41:26

look at this is extremely important

on a wider discussion we have to

0:41:260:41:29

have on social care.

0:41:290:41:30

Presumably not the revival

of that plan that was

0:41:300:41:32

the manifesto that would involve

lots of people not keeping their

0:41:320:41:35

houses?

0:41:350:41:36

Not if I have anything

to do with it.

0:41:360:41:38

OK.

0:41:380:41:45

Your counterpart in Manchester

has powers over some

0:41:450:41:47

aspect of health and social

care, the mayor there.

0:41:470:41:49

Would that help if you had that

power in Teesside, or

0:41:490:41:52

would you rather steer

clear of responsibility

0:41:520:41:54

for something that is a very

difficult policy area?

0:41:540:41:56

It is a very difficult

policy area and we

0:41:560:41:58

see in Manchester they are

struggling with the concept of

0:41:580:42:00

devolved health and social care

as their responsibility.

0:42:000:42:02

I am very much

concentrating on economic

0:42:020:42:04

regeneration and job creation which

is the portfolio that I've been

0:42:040:42:07

given.

0:42:070:42:08

Would it be better if you were

across all authorities?

0:42:080:42:10

In the long term that is something

that may come along.

0:42:100:42:13

We are talking about

a second devolution deal,

0:42:130:42:15

with Government, social

care and health care

0:42:150:42:25

care are not in that

at the

0:42:290:42:31

minute.

0:42:310:42:34

Because of the maturity

of the organisation we have.

0:42:340:42:37

But central government and local

politicians are very aware of this

0:42:370:42:40

as a long-term journey and ideally

we want to get to a point where we

0:42:400:42:43

are ready to take on those

responsibilities but I do think it

0:42:430:42:46

is some way in the future.

0:42:460:42:48

OK.

0:42:480:42:49

Sharon Hodgson, this

is such a serious problem.

0:42:490:42:51

At the moment there is a danger

that Labour just plays

0:42:510:42:53

politics, and of course calls

an opposition debate this week,

0:42:530:42:56

to try and embarrass the Government.

0:42:560:42:57

Politicians do that.

0:42:570:42:58

But actually what the public

want is a long-term

0:42:580:43:00

solution to this.

0:43:000:43:01

They want you and the other

parties to sit down and

0:43:010:43:04

come up with a solution

you can all agree on.

0:43:040:43:06

Well, yes, that would be great.

0:43:060:43:08

And we have got a plan.

0:43:080:43:09

We have said in our

manifesto and since

0:43:090:43:11

we would put an extra 8 billion

into social care with all the other,

0:43:110:43:15

have a real national health

and social care service.

0:43:150:43:17

Given the Government's changes why

don't you to sit down with the

0:43:170:43:20

Conservatives because

the problem is someone

0:43:200:43:21

comes up with a plan

and the

0:43:210:43:23

opposition rubbishes

it and votes it down.

0:43:230:43:24

Yes.

0:43:240:43:25

We would if they had a plan.

0:43:250:43:27

Barbara Keeley, my shadow minister

who covers social care and

0:43:270:43:29

mental health, has said time

and time again she would be happy

0:43:290:43:32

to sit down if there was something

on the

0:43:320:43:34

table to discuss.

0:43:350:43:36

If there was a real plan.

0:43:360:43:37

But when you've even got Ben

saying what was in the

0:43:370:43:40

manifesto even he would distance

himself from, they need to come

0:43:400:43:42

forward with a plan.

0:43:420:43:43

And what we have heard this

week, the care B and B

0:43:430:43:46

aspect, whoever came up with that,

thankfully everyone is

0:43:460:43:48

distancing themselves from it

but that was just crazy.

0:43:480:43:50

We need real proposals on the table.

0:43:510:43:52

I'm sure that is an issue

we will come back

0:43:520:43:55

to.

0:43:550:43:56

Staying with another

health-related issue, and the

0:43:560:43:57

Government is currently coming under

pressure to hold an enquiry on what

0:43:570:44:00

has been described as an ongoing

public health scandal affecting

0:44:000:44:03

thousands of women.

0:44:030:44:04

Many have been left

in permanent pain because of

0:44:040:44:06

mesh implants.

0:44:060:44:07

The implants are usually used

to treat organ prolapse

0:44:070:44:09

and incontinence.

0:44:090:44:10

But there have been

reports of serious

0:44:100:44:12

complications linked

to this surgery.

0:44:120:44:13

Last week the chair of the Health

Select Committee, Conservative MP

0:44:130:44:16

Sarah Wollaston, said, an absence

of data and cavalier practice had

0:44:160:44:18

exposed woman to unacceptable risks.

0:44:180:44:19

Our reporter has been

speaking to Lorna about what

0:44:190:44:22

happened to her when she had a mesh

implant to fix a bowel problem.

0:44:220:44:25

Within 12 months I was aware that

I was becoming seriously unwell.

0:44:250:44:28

The symptoms included

seizures, pain,

0:44:280:44:29

weight loss, and explosive,

foul smelling diarrhoea.

0:44:290:44:35

I was really frightened.

0:44:350:44:41

I initially went to the GP

and I said, I feel like I have

0:44:410:44:45

got a monster in my body

and it is try to spit it out.

0:44:450:44:51

So eventually I saw

a hospital consultant.

0:44:510:44:58

There seemed to be

for me long periods of

0:44:580:45:00

medical inertia.

0:45:000:45:01

Eventually by August 2013

I was really frightened.

0:45:010:45:05

And I walked into a hospital

department and I said, I begged for

0:45:050:45:08

help, somebody help me.

0:45:080:45:15

24 hours later I was

undergoing emergency surgery.

0:45:150:45:17

I had a perforated

bowel and I was septic.

0:45:170:45:20

My marriage collapsed.

0:45:200:45:21

So I find myself alone.

0:45:210:45:24

My career collapsed.

0:45:240:45:26

I had to leave work.

0:45:260:45:29

My ill health was clearly

becoming indefinite.

0:45:290:45:33

It challenged my

faith at the time as

0:45:330:45:35

well.

0:45:350:45:37

So emotionally, psychologically,

spiritually, and

0:45:370:45:41

physically, I felt

harmed at every level.

0:45:410:45:46

And what was quite concerning at

that time as well is

0:45:460:45:49

that there was very little help

from the welfare state.

0:45:490:45:53

I am in constant pain

and I never know from which day

0:45:530:45:56

to the next the pain

levels are going to be.

0:45:560:46:01

I get constant migraines,

I now have fibromyalgia,

0:46:010:46:07

so I get a lot of muscle pain,

joint aches, I am constantly cold.

0:46:070:46:13

Self-esteem is low.

0:46:130:46:14

Self-confidence is low.

0:46:140:46:16

My ability to socialise is affected.

0:46:160:46:19

Further use of the mesh

should be suspended

0:46:190:46:21

and there should be

a

0:46:210:46:23

public enquiry.

0:46:230:46:26

Labour has called for

an immediate halt to the use of

0:46:260:46:28

mesh implants.

0:46:280:46:30

Sharon Hodgson is the party's

shadow public health

0:46:300:46:32

minister.

0:46:320:46:35

No-one could listen to Lorna's story

there without having

0:46:350:46:37

huge sympathy and horror at

the complications that she has gone

0:46:370:46:40

through.

0:46:400:46:41

But there is a danger that Labour

could be overreacting to

0:46:410:46:44

this?

0:46:440:46:45

Because the medical experts say

in the vast majority of cases

0:46:450:46:48

these implants provide

great benefits to women.

0:46:480:46:49

It's only a minority

where there are problems.

0:46:490:46:53

That might be right.

0:46:530:46:55

This is why we have called

for a full halt to any

0:46:550:47:03

more of these things

being put into women

0:47:030:47:05

and a full enquiry into

the

0:47:050:47:07

numbers of women affected and why.

0:47:070:47:17

Because it might be the case,

there is arguments, 1-3% of

0:47:200:47:23

women affected, or up to 15%,

which the campaign groups

0:47:230:47:25

are saying it's more like 15%.

0:47:250:47:26

Yes, that could be 85% of women

have no problem and it

0:47:260:47:29

transforms their life.

0:47:290:47:30

But it ruins the life of the others.

0:47:300:47:32

If that was a car or

a washing machine or a

0:47:320:47:35

tumble dryer that there was 1-3%

blowing up and causing devastation

0:47:350:47:38

anywhere near what we've heard,

it would be recalled.

0:47:380:47:40

There would be a huge pause.

0:47:400:47:41

We know that happens.

0:47:410:47:42

But why when it is

something that has

0:47:420:47:44

been put into women's bodies,

and women aren't told

0:47:440:47:46

what the negative consequences

could be, it is a quick

0:47:460:47:49

20 minute procedure,

the tour that will

0:47:490:47:51

transform your life,

deal with

0:47:510:47:54

your stress incontinence

or your bowel problem.

0:47:540:47:57

They are not told that there

could be these awful side-effects

0:47:570:48:00

which ruin their lives.

0:48:000:48:02

I take that point but

the problem is if you shut

0:48:020:48:05

this off, even for a period, there

is a danger here for the women who

0:48:050:48:10

have got not life-threatening

problems, but they are embarrassing,

0:48:100:48:13

inconvenient, debilitating problems

that these are supposed to tackle.

0:48:130:48:16

And the alternatives

have problems too.

0:48:160:48:20

So you are going to deny a treatment

that is working for people

0:48:200:48:23

to lots of women in the meantime.

0:48:230:48:25

We had a debate last

week on this and

0:48:250:48:28

there was a number of women

who were able to travel came

0:48:280:48:31

to the debate, sat in on the debate,

and after the

0:48:310:48:35

debate we had a full meeting in one

of the committee rooms and this was

0:48:350:48:38

one of the things raised.

0:48:380:48:39

And I spoke to a lot

of the women and I said,

0:48:390:48:42

knowing where you were before, your

problem, whatever it was, the reason

0:48:420:48:47

you had the sling or the mesh

or the tape as they now call it,

0:48:470:48:50

put in, knowing what you know now,

would you have had it done?

0:48:500:48:53

How bad was your life

before compared to now?

0:48:530:48:55

And every one of them, obviously

these are the women affected, every

0:48:550:48:58

one of them said they wouldn't.

0:48:580:49:01

Because they said that the problems

0:49:010:49:10

before were mild to moderate and now

they are devastating effects.

0:49:100:49:12

I also spoke to

the surgeon, a Harley

0:49:120:49:15

Street surgeon, she is one of the

best in the country, who spends four

0:49:150:49:18

hours a time to remove these,

because they get incorporated into

0:49:180:49:21

the women's bodies, bowels,

bladders, vaginas, and she said

0:49:210:49:23

that often other procedures,

physiotherapy and

0:49:230:49:25

other methods aren't

0:49:250:49:27

tried because this is just seen

as a quick cheap fix.

0:49:270:49:30

Other things should be tried.

0:49:300:49:31

But you are asking us

to perhaps place our

0:49:310:49:34

faith in a minority

of the

0:49:340:49:35

medical profession and some

politicians rather than what appears

0:49:350:49:37

to be the majority of

the medical profession.

0:49:370:49:40

This could cause panic

to women that have

0:49:400:49:42

these.

0:49:420:49:44

They might think, I want to get

it taken out, which is

0:49:440:49:47

another complicated

and dangerous procedure.

0:49:470:49:48

Exactly.

0:49:480:49:50

And the procedure to

get it taken out is

0:49:500:49:52

awful, devastating, and a huge

operation to have it taken out.

0:49:520:49:56

This is why we need the pause.

0:49:560:49:59

America has it as a

high risk procedure.

0:49:590:50:01

Canada has a pause.

0:50:010:50:08

Other countries,

Scotland paused in 2014.

0:50:080:50:11

We just need to pause

and look again.

0:50:110:50:15

I think woman, knowing of this,

women need to know what could

0:50:150:50:17

happen, then it is up to them,

with their doctors,

0:50:170:50:20

to decide what they do next.

0:50:200:50:21

Thank you.

0:50:210:50:24

Whether it is railways

or the water industry,

0:50:240:50:26

nationalisation is a policy more

often associated with the Labour

0:50:260:50:29

Party.

0:50:290:50:30

But when it comes to the future

of Durham Tees Valley Airport

0:50:300:50:33

it seems to be the Conservatives

making the running.

0:50:330:50:35

The airport has seen

its passenger numbers nosedive

0:50:350:50:37

from around 900,000 in 2006

to just 130,000 last year.

0:50:370:50:47

Tees Valley mayor

wants to bring back

0:50:490:50:50

into public ownership

to revive its fortunes.

0:50:500:50:52

But how would that work and is it

a good week to spend tax

0:50:520:50:55

payers money?

0:50:550:51:03

I have been to Scotland

where something similar has

0:51:030:51:05

already been attempted.

0:51:050:51:06

Prestwick airport at its peak.

0:51:060:51:07

30 miles south of Glasgow

in Ayrshire, a gateway to

0:51:070:51:10

the world.

0:51:100:51:11

Even Elvis stopped here once.

0:51:110:51:12

And Prestwick today

is still just about rocking.

0:51:120:51:18

But like Durham Tees Valley Airport

has had a turbulent decade.

0:51:180:51:23

Passenger numbers have plummeted at

Prestwick, down 75% since 2005, in

0:51:230:51:30

2013 the existence of the airport

was in question. Its future under

0:51:300:51:34

its then private owner was bleak.

The Scottish Government stepped in,

0:51:340:51:39

buying Prestwick for £1. For years

later on it is yet to recapture its

0:51:390:51:44

glory days but passenger numbers are

rising again. The local MP says

0:51:440:51:48

public ownership is the key to

revival.

0:51:480:51:51

Knowing that you are not having to

just love from year to year, that

0:51:510:51:55

you have got a backer that is stable

and committed to the future of the

0:51:550:52:01

airport, means that the team can

knuckle down and work out how to

0:52:010:52:05

attract, whether British maintenance

work, cargo, passengers.

Even though

0:52:050:52:09

this is just one of five arrivals

today this is an airport that is no

0:52:090:52:14

ambitious, there are even plans to

become the UK's first spaceport. Is

0:52:140:52:18

this a model for a publicly owned

airport in Teesside? Do not get too

0:52:180:52:24

carried away. At the last count this

airport was still using £9 million

0:52:240:52:35

per year and its survival was only

secured with £40 million of loans

0:52:350:52:38

from the Scottish taxpayer. That

debt has led to some serious

0:52:380:52:40

questions being asked. The Scottish

Parliament in Edinburgh. It has

0:52:400:52:42

emerged it could take 15 more years

for that to be clear. Some are not

0:52:420:52:45

convinced taxpayers get a good deal

when politicians by airports.

0:52:450:52:50

I am sceptical whether the public

will ever see a return on their

0:52:500:52:54

investments, that is public money

that could be used on schools,

0:52:540:52:58

hospitals. That is a situation

similar to that in the north-east of

0:52:580:53:01

agreement where the regional airport

at Newcastle, Leeds Bradford, and a

0:53:010:53:06

smaller airport in the middle, I

wonder how viable batters.

If it was

0:53:060:53:10

viable it would not be public

support. Even Ben Houchen's

0:53:100:53:16

counterparts at Hollywood have not

been entirely won over to political

0:53:160:53:20

intervention.

At the time it was the right thing

0:53:200:53:22

to do to take into ownership to

safeguard those local jobs. That is

0:53:220:53:27

very important. But it cannot stay

in public ownership in the long

0:53:270:53:30

term. I want to see yet returned as

soon as possible to private

0:53:300:53:33

ownership. I want to be successful.

I want the public purse to be

0:53:330:53:38

refunded every penny that has been

spent to date.

Perhaps even a short

0:53:380:53:42

burst of public ownership could

benefit Durham Tees Valley Airport,

0:53:420:53:54

charting a Pattullo Bible, except

that nobody has offered to sell this

0:53:540:53:57

airport for £1.

Labour sees the

mayor would be better moving on from

0:53:570:53:59

that place. It is pie in the sky. It

is not going to happen. Ben Houchen

0:53:590:54:02

has not made an offer to buy it.

Accept it is just for the purpose of

0:54:020:54:07

getting elected and move on to

journeyman transport needs of the

0:54:070:54:11

area and not pursue these flights of

fancy.

And the owner says it has a

0:54:110:54:16

good plan to secure the future of

Teesside airport. So will following

0:54:160:54:21

the Prestwick pattern even be an

option?

0:54:210:54:25

Latest octave Ben Houchen, the Tees

Valley mayor about that and other

0:54:250:54:29

issues he has been tackling in his

first six months in the job.

0:54:290:54:35

This is pie in the sky, the airport

is not for sale, you make the

0:54:350:54:39

promise in the heat of an election

campaign, do you want to go back on

0:54:390:54:43

it?

Not at all. I am committed to

trying to deliver my election

0:54:430:54:48

pledge. Having been brought up in

the area I know the importance of

0:54:480:54:52

the airport, not just for flights to

go on holiday, but for economic

0:54:520:54:55

importance. We have got a massive

regeneration project which is trying

0:54:550:55:01

to attract inward economic

investment, and having an airport

0:55:010:55:05

for work passengers is just as

supported as those flights. There is

0:55:050:55:10

an economic case that we need a good

local airport. We talk of Newcastle,

0:55:100:55:15

the catchment area for Teesside is

larger than Newcastle. There is an

0:55:150:55:20

economic arguments that Teesside

airport can thrive.

I want to

0:55:200:55:23

deliver on that pledge. Even if you

did manage to buy, you can see from

0:55:230:55:27

what has happened at Prestwick, they

have saved it from potential

0:55:270:55:32

closure, but at a potential drain on

the public purse. You have got lots

0:55:320:55:35

of things you want to spend money

on.

The bill can do more than one

0:55:350:55:40

thing at a time. When Andy talks

about other transport priorities we

0:55:400:55:45

have already launched our road

infrastructure plan for a bypass

0:55:450:55:48

road, improving the a 66 corridor.

You can only spend each £1 once,

0:55:480:55:55

every £1 you spend on the airport 's

money you cannot spend on bus

0:55:550:55:59

services, roads, railways.

That is

right that I was elected on the

0:55:590:56:03

mandate, of buying the airport, the

public have given me a clear mandate

0:56:030:56:06

that that is what they want me to

spend their money on. Having been

0:56:060:56:15

given that mandate to pursue my

pledge I make sure the economic

0:56:150:56:18

pledge Stapp sap, to see to the

public this is the plan. But it is

0:56:180:56:21

not for sale. I am in discussion

with the owners. They have not

0:56:210:56:26

turned red and said it is not for

sale. I have another meeting in

0:56:260:56:29

coming weeks to talk about the

details proposition. It is a

0:56:290:56:34

sensitive negotiation at the moment.

Don't you think, as a conservative,

0:56:340:56:39

this is bizarre, you probably

believe that private-sector

0:56:390:56:44

companies are better at running

these institutions, rather than

0:56:440:56:48

politicians? You are saying you

could run it better than this

0:56:480:56:51

private company that has a plan for

this airport.

There are a number of

0:56:510:56:56

options on the table. The end goal

of what we do with the airport is

0:56:560:57:00

open to debate. We have seen some

public and private partnerships in

0:57:000:57:06

Manchester and Newcastle were public

sector has majority ownership but I

0:57:060:57:10

good strong private provider. The

mix of what could happen is not as

0:57:100:57:17

straightforward as becoming the new

chief executive of the airport.

The

0:57:170:57:21

former Redcar steelworks site, a

Corporation setup, when might we see

0:57:210:57:26

jobs move on to that site?

We

watched public consultation last

0:57:260:57:30

week, that last for six weeks,

please get involved and give us your

0:57:300:57:34

feedback. We have been very clear

that because of the significant road

0:57:340:57:40

infrastructure and broad

rationalisation we should expect to

0:57:400:57:42

see construction jobs starting next

year and depending on how

0:57:420:57:45

negotiations go with some of the

partners we hope to be able to carve

0:57:450:57:48

out some projects at some point next

year. Do you need more money? We

0:57:480:57:55

need Government money and I have

been lobbying extremely hard with

0:57:550:57:58

the treasury and the budget to get

money into the area to kick-start

0:57:580:58:02

that project. The Prime Minister is

behind it and I am trying to make

0:58:020:58:07

sure that the rest of the ministers

are behind it because it is

0:58:070:58:09

something we need to get this

project off the ground because it

0:58:090:58:13

ultimately means regeneration of the

area which means jobs for local

0:58:130:58:16

people.

Thank you. Electric cars,

even driverless vehicles, are the

0:58:160:58:23

future, and one north-east MPs

revealed that she bought one but not

0:58:230:58:27

without some problems. Here is that

story and the rest of the news in 60

0:58:270:58:30

seconds.

Bishop Auckland MP is now the proud

0:58:300:58:38

owner of a Nissan Beef electric car

but she told the Commons more

0:58:380:58:42

vehicle charging points when needed

and better advice from garages.

The

0:58:420:58:48

men in the garage were not good at

explaining how it worked. Out of the

0:58:480:58:53

20 people they employed, only one

really understood it. That sales

0:58:530:58:57

force also has to understand how

these things work.

Plans for the

0:58:570:59:04

continued overnight closure of an

urgent care centre in North Tyneside

0:59:040:59:07

have been condemned by an MP and a

mayor. It comes as a hospital

0:59:070:59:15

appears to reopen its 24 hour

service. Councillors in Hartlepool

0:59:150:59:20

have a new waterfront masterplan

with a hotel and watersports

0:59:200:59:26

activities.

And Ukip Euro MP has called victory

0:59:260:59:33

in attempt to stop subsidising

bull-fighting in Spain. The

0:59:330:59:38

amendment is passed, it is yet to be

confirmed.

0:59:380:59:42

One bit of extra news. North East

has been appointed Brexit Minister

0:59:420:59:51

for the House of Lords.

I want to talk about electric cars,

0:59:510:59:57

have you got one?

Not yet. It was

interesting what Helen said. She

0:59:571:00:01

made a very good point. One of the

things that is always put us off

1:00:011:00:08

getting one is the distance, how far

you have got to go. We go up and

1:00:081:00:13

down the country quite a bit. The

new Nissan Leaf that is manufactured

1:00:131:00:21

later this year is going to be 60%

further capacity, it will go 235

1:00:211:00:28

miles, nearly enough to get you to

London, but with regard to the sales

1:00:281:00:34

pitch, for people who are put off by

the distance, one of the things that

1:00:341:00:40

the seals men are supposed to remind

people is that for a holiday or the

1:00:401:00:45

odd long journey the amount of money

you are saving, you could have a

1:00:451:00:49

hired car that could do that

journey, but 235 miles, and a

1:00:491:00:55

charging point at service stations.

As the infrastructure good enough at

1:00:551:00:59

the moment? Probably not but

hopefully in time it will be. We

1:00:591:01:04

need the super fast ones to be at

service stations and then getting

1:01:041:01:07

around the country will not be a

problem.

Ben Houchen is there a

1:01:071:01:14

mayoral vehicle, as it electric?

It

is not electric. The north-east has

1:01:141:01:18

more than 1000 electric charging

points. I believe it may still be

1:01:181:01:23

the most connected for electric

vehicles. On an adjacent point we

1:01:231:01:27

are working hard to go a step be on

the electric vehicles, we are

1:01:271:01:32

working with governments to see if

we can come up with the pilot for

1:01:321:01:35

automated vehicles, as a pilot area,

to test that technology. We have got

1:01:351:01:40

a great supply chain in the Tees

Valley. We have got the Nissan being

1:01:401:01:43

produced in the north-east and

Sunderland as well, we have a

1:01:431:01:46

heritage of car production. Diesel?

I have a diesel car but the

1:01:461:01:53

long-term vision of moving to new

technology weather in manufacturing,

1:01:531:01:57

industrial, cars, I am always in

favour of.

Thank you. That is about

1:01:571:02:01

it for this week. I form in my

driverless car, that is what my

1:02:011:02:06

passengers tell me it feels like

when I am at the real. I will be

1:02:061:02:10

back here, same time, simplest, next

Sunday, Liberal Democrat MP Vince

1:02:101:02:15

Cable

1:02:151:02:15

With that, it's back to Sarah.

1:02:161:02:25

Now, the much anticipated

EU Withdrawal Bill,

1:02:251:02:27

which will transfer EU law into UK

law in preparation for Brexit,

1:02:271:02:31

is expected to be debated

by MPs later next month.

1:02:311:02:35

Critics have called it a "power

grab" as it introduces so-called

1:02:351:02:38

Henry VIII powers for Whitehall

to amend some laws without

1:02:381:02:41

consulting parliament,

and it faces fierce resistance

1:02:411:02:45

from opposition parties

as well as many on the government's

1:02:451:02:48

own backbenches, with 300 amendments

and 54 new clauses tabled on it.

1:02:481:02:53

We're joined now by the Conservative

MP Anna Soubry who has been a strong

1:02:531:02:57

critic of the legislation.

1:02:571:03:01

Thank you very much for joining us.

Before we talk about the withdrawal

1:03:011:03:06

bill, I would like to bring up with

you that the Prime Minister has just

1:03:061:03:10

sent a letter to the Commons Speaker

John Bercow asking for an

1:03:101:03:14

independent body to be established

to investigate claims of sexual

1:03:141:03:19

harassment in Parliament. What are

your thoughts on that?

A very good

1:03:191:03:23

idea, sounds like a great deal of

common sense. I had already this

1:03:231:03:28

morning sent a request to the

speaker asking for an urgent

1:03:281:03:31

statement from the Leader of the

House as to what could now be done

1:03:311:03:35

to make sure that any complaints

actually against anybody working in

1:03:351:03:41

Parliament, to extend the

protections that workers throughout

1:03:411:03:44

the rest of businesses and in other

workplaces have, they should now be

1:03:441:03:48

extended into Parliament and asking

for an urgent statement from the

1:03:481:03:52

leader. Clearly the PM is well onto

this and it is a good idea. We have

1:03:521:03:57

to make sure everybody who works in

Parliament enjoys exactly the same

1:03:571:04:01

protections as other workers, so I

welcome this.

This should maybe have

1:04:011:04:06

happened a long time ago. We hear

stories of harassment that has been

1:04:061:04:11

going on for decades, but until now

it has been difficult to work out

1:04:111:04:14

who you could complain to about it.

It is my understanding that my Chief

1:04:141:04:20

Whip and the previous deputy Chief

Whip, and Milton, shared that view

1:04:201:04:24

and have shared that view for some

time but found it difficult to get

1:04:241:04:29

all the agreement necessary. Anyway,

we are where we are and we are

1:04:291:04:33

making that progress, but

1:04:331:04:44

my Chief Whip and the previous

deputy Chief Whip wanted this done

1:04:451:04:48

some time ago.

That is an

interesting point. Let's move on to

1:04:481:04:50

the much anticipated EU withdrawal

bill which will finally be debated.

1:04:501:04:52

You have put your name to an

amendment which is calling for a

1:04:521:04:55

vote on the final agreement in

essence, do you really believe that

1:04:551:04:58

that will be a meaningful both

offered to the Commons?

Yes, if you

1:04:581:05:02

look at the terms of the amendment,

it would deliver exactly that. It

1:05:021:05:07

would give members of Parliament the

opportunity to debated and voted on

1:05:071:05:12

it. It would be an effective piece

of legislation and would go through

1:05:121:05:16

both houses and should be done. One

of the problems with this process is

1:05:161:05:21

that Parliament has been excluded

from the sort of debate and

1:05:211:05:25

decisions that would have enabled

the government to move forward in

1:05:251:05:30

progress and form a consensus so we

get the very best Brexit deal.

We

1:05:301:05:40

have been excluded, that has been

wrong in my view, but by the end we

1:05:401:05:43

should not be excluded. The

government have made it clear that

1:05:431:05:45

whilst there may well be a boat if

you win on this amendment, it will

1:05:451:05:48

be a take it or leave it vote. This

is a deal you should accept, or

1:05:481:05:53

there will be no deal.

If you look

at the amendment we put forward

1:05:531:06:00

there will be other alternatives.

This is all hypothetical because we

1:06:001:06:03

want a good deal and it is difficult

to see that the government would not

1:06:031:06:07

bring a good deal to the House in

any event. But this is hypothetical,

1:06:071:06:13

it would mean Parliament would say

to government, go back and seek an

1:06:131:06:18

extension as we know it is there in

Article 50. It is perfectly possible

1:06:181:06:24

with the agreement of the other

members of the EU to seek an

1:06:241:06:28

extension so we continue the

negotiations and we get a deal that

1:06:281:06:32

is good for our country. It keeps

all options open and that is the

1:06:321:06:36

most important thing.

How many

Conservative MPs really would take

1:06:361:06:41

that option in those circumstances?

It is only if you get enough votes

1:06:411:06:46

that you would be able to ask the

government to go back and

1:06:461:06:49

re-negotiate.

1:06:491:06:59

Have you for that?

For give me, but

you are jumping way down the line. I

1:07:021:07:06

am talking about an amendment that

keeps the options open. I am not

1:07:061:07:08

speculating as to what would happen,

I am not going there, it is far too

1:07:081:07:11

speculative. Let's get this bill in

good shape. The principle of this

1:07:111:07:15

bill is right and we need to put

into British domestic law existing

1:07:151:07:20

EU laws and regulations into our

substantive law. We all agree that

1:07:201:07:25

must happen. It is the means by

which we do it that causes problems

1:07:251:07:31

and we have this argument and debate

about what we call the endgame.

I am

1:07:311:07:37

sure we will talk about this many

more times before we get to that

1:07:371:07:40

vote. I will turn to our panel of

political experts. Listening to the

1:07:401:07:46

tone of what the remainders are

trying to achieve with the EU

1:07:461:07:52

withdrawal bill, will be achieved?

You can hear that tussled there,

1:07:521:07:57

they want the maximum space and room

for Parliament to have a say. But

1:07:571:08:02

they have to be careful. The reason

is that clock is ticking and if you

1:08:021:08:08

have a situation which may seem to

be more interested in finding

1:08:081:08:14

different things to object to and

saying no to, it is not getting a

1:08:141:08:18

good deal and it does not look good

for the remainders in this argument

1:08:181:08:22

and they will have to come through

with their proposals. I do not mind

1:08:221:08:27

Parliament saying it should have a

big say, but what do you do if

1:08:271:08:30

Parliament says this is not good

enough? The government must simply

1:08:301:08:36

say, I am sorry we have run out of

time. The 27 will say they cannot be

1:08:361:08:42

bothered to have another round

either. They have to be strong, but

1:08:421:08:46

realistic about what their role in

this is.

Do you think the people

1:08:461:08:50

putting this amendment who say they

want a binding vote in parliament

1:08:501:08:55

are doing it because they think

Parliament should have a say or

1:08:551:08:59

because they want to obstruct it?

They do not think people should have

1:08:591:09:04

a say in the first place, they think

people got it wrong, so they need

1:09:041:09:08

more clever people than the voters

to have final say.

Or they believed

1:09:081:09:16

taking back control means Parliament

should have the final say.

1:09:161:09:19

Parliament said they would like to

give that decision back to the

1:09:191:09:22

people. This is the issue. It seems

to me that people like Anna Soubry

1:09:221:09:28

are trying to delay of the

transition period a bit longer.

1:09:281:09:32

These negotiations will take as long

as they have got. The EU will take

1:09:321:09:37

it to the wire and if we do not get

a decent deal, and one of the

1:09:371:09:45

reasons is the level of incompetence

on this government's part I have to

1:09:451:09:48

say and the other one will be the

people who want to remain

1:09:481:09:53

undermining them. They undermined

the government at every single stage

1:09:531:09:59

and they undermine Britain's

interests.

It is the timing of all

1:09:591:10:03

of this that is crucial and whether

the government can get a deal in

1:10:031:10:06

time.

There will be a meaningful

vote, whether it is an shined in

1:10:061:10:12

legislation or not, there cannot be

an historic development as big as

1:10:121:10:17

this without Parliament having a

meaningful vote. I meaningful,

1:10:171:10:22

having the power to either stop it

or endorse it. You cannot have a

1:10:221:10:27

government doing something like this

with no vote in the House of

1:10:271:10:30

commons. When you say it will go to

the last minute I completely agree,

1:10:301:10:37

but last-minute in reality means

next summer. It has got to get

1:10:371:10:42

through the European Parliament and

the Westminster Parliament and quite

1:10:421:10:45

a few others as well.

The trouble

with invoking Parliament is if it is

1:10:451:10:52

driven solely by remain, I would

love to say what people in the

1:10:521:10:57

league side think. I disagree with

Julia, I do not think you could say

1:10:571:11:04

people had their say and the terms

with which we leave are left open

1:11:041:11:08

and only the government should have

a say in it, Parliament clearly

1:11:081:11:12

should have a say in it.

Do we want

a good deal or not?

It does not mean

1:11:121:11:20

anything if you do not do it by next

summer I suggest.

Does that leave

1:11:201:11:26

Parliament any room for changing the

deal or is it simply take it or

1:11:261:11:30

leave it?

It will have to have that

rule because it cannot simply be

1:11:301:11:35

another of these binary votes were

you accept the deal or no Deal.

1:11:351:11:38

There has to be some space.

How can

a few MPs in the House of Commons

1:11:381:11:45

change a deal that has been agreed

by the member states?

Because of the

1:11:451:11:50

sequence, a huge if by the way, if

they vote down the deal that the

1:11:501:11:55

government has negotiated, the

government will have to re-negotiate

1:11:551:11:59

or there will have to be an

election. This will be a moment of

1:11:591:12:03

huge crisis, our government not

getting through its much topped

1:12:031:12:05

about...

It is a mini Catalonia.

I

think it would be as big as

1:12:051:12:15

Catalonia, but with the implication

that there would have to be a

1:12:151:12:18

practical change in the deal because

if Parliament has not supported

1:12:181:12:21

it...

It is a remain fantasy that

this deal can be put off and off

1:12:211:12:27

until they get something that is as

close to remaining as they can

1:12:271:12:31

possibly get. I am very much for

trying to get the best and avoiding

1:12:311:12:36

the worst, but there is an unreality

to that position if you keep trying

1:12:361:12:43

to do it again and again, at some

point people will want clarity.

I

1:12:431:12:49

labour putting forward a realistic

proposition?

I thought Hilary Benn

1:12:491:12:54

was very realistic this morning, I

wish he was more in the driving seat

1:12:541:12:59

of Labour policy. He made clear

where he disagreed and he made clear

1:12:591:13:04

where he thought the negotiations

had gone off track or were bogged

1:13:041:13:07

down. I worry a bit about the Labour

position being incoherent, but that

1:13:071:13:15

is kept that way by the present

leadership because as far as they

1:13:151:13:19

are concerned the government is

suffering enough, why should they

1:13:191:13:23

have a position? Hilary Benn said we

needed to have clarity about the

1:13:231:13:28

timetable. It is like reading an

insurance contract and finding the

1:13:281:13:32

bit where you might get away with

it. That is not a policy.

1:13:321:13:35

That is not a policy.

1:13:351:13:38

That's all for today.

1:13:381:13:39

Join me again next Sunday

at 11 here on BBC One.

1:13:391:13:41

Until then, bye bye.

1:13:411:13:46

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