Browse content similar to 19/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning everyone, and welcome
to the Sunday Politics. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:37 | |
I'm Sarah Smith. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:38 | |
And this is your guide
to all the big stories that | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
are shaping politics this weekend,
and a few of the smaller ones too. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:45 | |
Philip Hammond is getting ready
to deliver his latest Budget | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
on Wednesday and he's not short
of advice - to spend more, | 0:00:48 | 0:00:50 | |
show restraint, even
to stop being an Eyore - | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
but can he change the direction
of the country and his government? | 0:00:53 | 0:00:58 | |
Conservative Party darling
Jacob Rees-Mogg has | 0:00:58 | 0:01:00 | |
some advice of his own. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
He thinks the Chancellor
is being far too gloomy about Brexit | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
- he joins me live to explain why. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:08 | |
The former Leave campaign leader,
Gisela Stuart, will be here debating | 0:01:08 | 0:01:12 | |
with pro-EU campaigner
Alastair Campbell, after taking | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
a trip to her native Germany
to speak to businesses | 0:01:15 | 0:01:17 | |
about Brexit. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:21 | |
And, as we wait to find out what's
on the menu for this week's budget, | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
we're in a diner off
the A1 in Peterborough, | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
finding out who people most trust
with the economy - | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
Philip Hammond or John McDonnell? | 0:01:29 | 0:01:36 | |
Here, new Metro trains
or cash for schools - | 0:01:36 | 0:01:38 | |
what might the budget provide
for the North? | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
And the North East
councils which want to | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
deliver lower gas and electricity
bills in their areas. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:43 | |
All that coming up in the programme. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:50 | |
And with me for for all of it,
three journalists who've promised | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
not to show off like Michael Gove
by using any long economicky words - | 0:01:53 | 0:01:57 | |
although I'm not sure they really
know that many anyway - | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
it's Tom Newton Dunn,
Gaby Hinsliff and Iain Martin. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:03 | |
Let's take a look at the big
political stories making the news | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
this Sunday morning,
and as you might expect there's | 0:02:06 | 0:02:08 | |
plenty of speculation
about what might or not might be | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
in Philip Hammond's Budget. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
The Chancellor is promising a big
investment in new technology, | 0:02:13 | 0:02:15 | |
including driverless cars -
which could be on the road by 2021. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:19 | |
He's been interviewed
in the Sunday Times, | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
where he talks about plans to reach
the target of building | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
300,000 homes every year,
or the equivalent of a city | 0:02:25 | 0:02:28 | |
the size of Leeds. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:30 | |
That paper speculates that he's
attempting to turn from "fiscal | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
Phil" into "hopeful Hammond"
as he tries to set out | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
a vision for the country,
not just a list of numbers. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
The Sunday Telegraph thinks that
Mr Hammond is planning to offer | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
a pay rise to nurses as part
of a bid to take on Labour. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:44 | |
But that hasn't impressed
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
He's spoken to a number of papers
and is calling for an emergency | 0:02:47 | 0:02:50 | |
budget to invest in public services
and help struggling households. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
So that's a taste of what you might
hear on Wednesday and Mr Hammond | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
and Mr McDonnell have both been
appearing this morning | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
on the Andrew Marr Show. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
I think Britain has a very
bright future ahead of it, | 0:03:03 | 0:03:05 | |
and we have to embrace
the opportunities that | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
a post-Brexit world will offer. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:10 | |
They will be opportunities that
are based on huge change, | 0:03:10 | 0:03:12 | |
huge technological evolution. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:16 | |
It's not always going to be easy,
but the British people have shown | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
time and time again that we're up
for these challenges. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
For many people out there,
this is a depression. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
We've had people whose wages
have been cut by 10%. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
Nurses, for example. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
We've had people who are now... | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
1.25 million food parcels handed out
in the sixth richest | 0:03:33 | 0:03:37 | |
country in the world. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
That's what I call a recession
for large numbers of people. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:46 | |
We will be talking about Labour and
their economic policies in a moment, | 0:03:46 | 0:03:52 | |
but let's start with what we might
expect from the budget. We will talk | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
to our panel of political observers.
Philip Hammond is under pressure to | 0:03:56 | 0:04:00 | |
set out a bold vision and reset the
government's programme. Can we | 0:04:00 | 0:04:05 | |
expect that? No, we can't. We have
heard enough from the Chancellor | 0:04:05 | 0:04:11 | |
across various broadcast and his
article in the Sunday Times. I think | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
we will not be getting a bold
budget. His precise words short... A | 0:04:14 | 0:04:23 | |
short time ago were a balanced
budget. Some Tory hearts will think. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
They desperately want something to
go out and shout about, something to | 0:04:26 | 0:04:31 | |
capture people's imagination, and do
big and bold things, like how on | 0:04:31 | 0:04:35 | |
earth are they going to build those
new 300,000 houses a year? There are | 0:04:35 | 0:04:41 | |
good reasons why he has chosen what
appears to be a pretty staid, | 0:04:41 | 0:04:48 | |
Conservative budget, and that is
that they are probably unable to get | 0:04:48 | 0:04:53 | |
anything bold through Parliament.
His capital is so low among Tory | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
MPs. If you have a minority
government, it is tricky. We have | 0:04:56 | 0:05:05 | |
seen ministers on programmes like
this in the last few weeks putting | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
in the bids for what they would like
spending on, whether it be payment | 0:05:08 | 0:05:13 | |
for nurses or parliament. Would he
struggled to get something radical | 0:05:13 | 0:05:17 | |
through the Commons? Big ideas cost
money. That's the problem. Bold | 0:05:17 | 0:05:22 | |
ideas are controversial. In some
ways, Tory MPs are asking their | 0:05:22 | 0:05:29 | |
Chancellor to do the impossible.
Government is already doing | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
something big and bold, which is
Brexit. That has implications for | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
how much money is available, how
many risks you want to take with | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
everything else. What is crucial is
that he demonstrates a reputation | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
for competence. The reputation that
the Conservative government has for | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
economic competence, that many
people prefer them to Labour on the | 0:05:52 | 0:05:57 | |
issue of economic competence. The
worst thing he could do is come up | 0:05:57 | 0:06:01 | |
with a big, bold idea that
unravelled quickly. What they | 0:06:01 | 0:06:06 | |
absolutely don't want is to come up
with an exciting idea that falls | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
apart three days after the budget.
He is under pressure from | 0:06:10 | 0:06:15 | |
Brexiteers, who are suspicious of
him. Does he have to offer them | 0:06:15 | 0:06:18 | |
something? Part of his problem is he
has to offer so many different | 0:06:18 | 0:06:24 | |
people different things. This is
Philip Hammond trying to be and | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
dynamic. It is hard to tell
sometimes. At least in theoretical | 0:06:27 | 0:06:35 | |
terms. His longer-term difficulty is
that, if you look at the economic | 0:06:35 | 0:06:44 | |
cycle, we are getting to a point
where we are probably overdue, if | 0:06:44 | 0:06:49 | |
you put Brexit to one side, overdue
some kind of correction or downturn, | 0:06:49 | 0:06:55 | |
if you look what has happened to
asset prices globally. What will be | 0:06:55 | 0:07:00 | |
worrying for the Treasury is, just
as everyone is saying we should turn | 0:07:00 | 0:07:05 | |
on the taps and build this or that,
we might be at the top of a cycle, | 0:07:05 | 0:07:11 | |
and the Treasury will want to lose
something in the armoury in terms of | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
probably growing the deficit if
there are economic difficulties in | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
the next two years, and then there
is Brexit as well. It sounds | 0:07:19 | 0:07:24 | |
impossible. I think so. Talking to
his friends and colleagues over the | 0:07:24 | 0:07:29 | |
last few days, he had to make a
call, which was precisely how much | 0:07:29 | 0:07:34 | |
can I get away with, with my
political capital being as low as it | 0:07:34 | 0:07:40 | |
is, with the mixed problems he had
at the last budget, and a lot of the | 0:07:40 | 0:07:46 | |
party disliking his approach to
Brexit. He is damned if he is, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:51 | |
damned if he doesn't. Universal
Credit, we are expecting a reduction | 0:07:51 | 0:08:00 | |
in the time it takes to wait,
business rates, affected by high | 0:08:00 | 0:08:07 | |
inflation... I think we will see a
problem fixing budget which will | 0:08:07 | 0:08:12 | |
probably do quite a lot of important
spadework in many areas. We will | 0:08:12 | 0:08:17 | |
pick up on some of this later in the
programme. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:22 | |
Let's speak now to the Conservative
MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, this week | 0:08:22 | 0:08:25 | |
he helpfully launched an alternative
"budget for Brexit" and advised | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
the Chancellor to be less gloomy
about the consequences | 0:08:27 | 0:08:29 | |
of leaving the EU. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:33 | |
Thank you for joining us. Your
alternative budget is pretty | 0:08:33 | 0:08:37 | |
radical. Almost half corporation
tax, Cap Stamp duty to help the | 0:08:37 | 0:08:46 | |
London market. It seems you are
advocating the opposite from what we | 0:08:46 | 0:08:51 | |
will hear from your Chancellor on
Wednesday. There are two parts to | 0:08:51 | 0:08:55 | |
the proposals I suggested. One is
that we should show that after we | 0:08:55 | 0:08:59 | |
have left the European Union, the UK
is open to the rest of the world. It | 0:08:59 | 0:09:05 | |
is about opening up to the rest of
the world. Secondly, looking at the | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
modelling that has been done by the
Treasury and some other forecasters, | 0:09:09 | 0:09:14 | |
which has been so comprehensively
wrong. The forecasts made about what | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
would happen after Brexit have
turned out to be hopelessly false. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:26 | |
The team at Cardiff University have
done some modelling based on the | 0:09:26 | 0:09:31 | |
classical economic principles and
what happens if you move to free | 0:09:31 | 0:09:34 | |
trade that would be very positive
for the economy. You are predicting | 0:09:34 | 0:09:39 | |
a Brexit dividend of £135 billion,
which sounds fantastic. Why are you | 0:09:39 | 0:09:47 | |
right, and everybody else, including
the Bank of England and the | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
Institute for Fiscal Studies, why
are they all wrong? It depends on | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
the type of modelling. The modelling
that have been done by the Treasury | 0:09:55 | 0:10:00 | |
have been based on gravity models,
which work on the basis of the | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
nearness of the market and the size
of the economy you are trading with. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:08 | |
These have been wrong in the past.
They predicted that if we joined the | 0:10:08 | 0:10:14 | |
euro, trade would grow by 300%. That
was then revised down to 200%, but | 0:10:14 | 0:10:20 | |
it is fantasyland. The model I am
working on, by Sir Patrick Minford, | 0:10:20 | 0:10:27 | |
who has a record of getting these
things right. He was right about the | 0:10:27 | 0:10:35 | |
exchange rate mechanism, right about
the euro. Being right in the past | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
doesn't mean you are right about the
future. Why do you think the | 0:10:39 | 0:10:44 | |
Treasury will not pick up the same
numbers, if this is so obvious to | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
you? I think the Treasury was
humiliated by the errors in its | 0:10:48 | 0:10:53 | |
forecast prior to Brexit, and is
trying to defend its position. The | 0:10:53 | 0:10:59 | |
short-term economic consequences of
a vote to leave was one of the most | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
dishonest documents to come out of
the Treasury, purely a piece of | 0:11:02 | 0:11:08 | |
political propaganda. They are
wounded by that and sticking to the | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
same script, rather than looking at
other forecasts and other experts. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:16 | |
You think the governor of the Bank
of England is an enemy of Brexit, | 0:11:16 | 0:11:20 | |
and it sounds like you think the
Treasury is opposed to it. As the | 0:11:20 | 0:11:25 | |
Chancellor fallen under their spell
as well, and been persuaded to be an | 0:11:25 | 0:11:30 | |
enemy of Brexit? I have admiration
the Chancellor, but George Osborne, | 0:11:30 | 0:11:36 | |
his predecessor, was the architect
of Project Fear. He was too close to | 0:11:36 | 0:11:41 | |
the Bank of England and lost his
independence. That is what needs to | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
change. It is an opportunity in the
budget for Philip Hammond to show he | 0:11:45 | 0:11:52 | |
is putting aside the Treasury's
mistakes in the past. It is very | 0:11:52 | 0:11:56 | |
encouraging what he is saying this
morning, about a more positive | 0:11:56 | 0:12:01 | |
approach to Brexit. Lord Lawson has
accused Philip Hammond of being very | 0:12:01 | 0:12:06 | |
close to sabotage on Brexit. He says
we need a can-do man at the Treasury | 0:12:06 | 0:12:13 | |
and not a prophet of doom. I think
that Philip Hammond is an | 0:12:13 | 0:12:17 | |
exceptionally intelligent man, a
very thoughtful man. It is not a bad | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
thing to have a Chancellor who is
serious minded and steady, rather | 0:12:21 | 0:12:26 | |
than one who is a showman and uses
the Exchequer to interfere in | 0:12:26 | 0:12:33 | |
absolutely everything. I have a lot
of confidence in the Chancellor. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
When you launched your budget for
Brexit, you said the government has | 0:12:37 | 0:12:42 | |
to deliver the £350 million for the
NHS that was delivered during the | 0:12:42 | 0:12:48 | |
referendum, even though you didn't
think that promise should have been | 0:12:48 | 0:12:51 | |
made. Is that something they now
need to deliver wrong? It is. This | 0:12:51 | 0:12:56 | |
only happens once we have left.
Politicians have to recognise that | 0:12:56 | 0:13:02 | |
voters don't look at the small print
of electoral policies. If you put | 0:13:02 | 0:13:09 | |
£350 million on the side of a bus
and say it may be available for the | 0:13:09 | 0:13:14 | |
NHS, it is reasonable for people to
think that is a promise. Brexit was | 0:13:14 | 0:13:20 | |
won by the Leave campaign, so it it
is important that they deliver on | 0:13:20 | 0:13:26 | |
that promise. Politicians must keep
faith with voters and deliver on | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
implied promises, as well as ones
that are set out in detail. The | 0:13:30 | 0:13:35 | |
Cabinet will move on to talk about
the Brexit bill this week, and we | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
understand they may need to come up
with more money to satisfy EU | 0:13:39 | 0:13:44 | |
demands. The more money spent on
that is less money available for | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
things like spending on the NHS. Are
you worried about the size of the | 0:13:47 | 0:13:53 | |
exit bill? You have your finger on
the important point. The government | 0:13:53 | 0:14:00 | |
will have to choose whether to give
lots of money to the European Union, | 0:14:00 | 0:14:04 | |
or whether to spend money on UK
public services, and that will be | 0:14:04 | 0:14:09 | |
part of the negotiation. On all
these issues, it comes down to | 0:14:09 | 0:14:13 | |
choice is the government makes. I
would encourage the government to | 0:14:13 | 0:14:19 | |
choose our own domestic public
services rather than expensive | 0:14:19 | 0:14:22 | |
schemes in continent or Europe. Why
are you advocating that the | 0:14:22 | 0:14:26 | |
government should spend up to £2.5
billion on a no deal scenario? | 0:14:26 | 0:14:36 | |
It is important that we are ready to
leave in the event of no deal. If we | 0:14:36 | 0:14:41 | |
left with no deal we would on
current figures still be saving the | 0:14:41 | 0:14:47 | |
remains of 18 billion so we would be
saving 15 and a half billion against | 0:14:47 | 0:14:53 | |
paying for the financial framework.
To show we're ready on day one would | 0:14:53 | 0:14:58 | |
be money well spent and most would
be needed any way. We need to have | 0:14:58 | 0:15:06 | |
new customs arrangements in place
even if it is not for a no deal | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
situation. There are suggestions
that the Government might back down | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
on the idea of putting the time and
date of leaving the EU on the face | 0:15:13 | 0:15:17 | |
of the bill. Would you be Exxon
certained if that was -- concerned | 0:15:17 | 0:15:21 | |
if that was remove prd the bill? It
is in Article 50, unless Article 50 | 0:15:21 | 0:15:29 | |
is extended by the Council of Europe
we leave on 20th March 2019 and it | 0:15:29 | 0:15:39 | |
makes accepts that should be the
same in -- sense that should be in | 0:15:39 | 0:15:43 | |
same in domestic law. But that is a
secondary concern from my point of | 0:15:43 | 0:15:47 | |
view. It is important that we leave
on that date. Stay there if you | 0:15:47 | 0:15:52 | |
would. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:53 | |
We're joined in the studio
by the former minister | 0:15:53 | 0:15:55 | |
Stephen Hammond. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:56 | |
He's no relation to the Chancellor,
but he is a member | 0:15:56 | 0:15:59 | |
of the Treasury Select Committee
and he's one of the Tory MPs named | 0:15:59 | 0:16:02 | |
as "Brexit mutineers"
by the Daily Telegraph | 0:16:02 | 0:16:04 | |
this week - lucky him. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
I'm assured you're no relation to
the Chancellor. Let's just pick up | 0:16:06 | 0:16:12 | |
on what Jacob Rees Mogg was saying.
How important is it to you as a | 0:16:12 | 0:16:20 | |
rebel that the Government does put
the date on. I agree with Jacob it | 0:16:20 | 0:16:25 | |
is in the Article 50 process, the
key reason it is important is the | 0:16:25 | 0:16:31 | |
negotiations look like they're going
to be tricky and longer than we | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
expected and it may well be that we
are still negotiating up until March | 0:16:34 | 0:16:41 | |
2019. We could have a short couple
of weeks period of extension. Why do | 0:16:41 | 0:16:46 | |
harm to the economy by falling out
on a precise time? If those | 0:16:46 | 0:16:51 | |
negotiations need to be extended.
They won't go on for more than a | 0:16:51 | 0:16:55 | |
couple of weeks, because there will
be elections in Europe in June 2019 | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
and there is no chance of a new
commission or Parliament dealing | 0:16:59 | 0:17:04 | |
with this. Giving it flexibility and
with this flexibility the government | 0:17:04 | 0:17:11 | |
said it wants flexibility in
negotiations, why give all the | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
advantage to the other side? Part of
that was evidenced yesterday by | 0:17:14 | 0:17:20 | |
somebody suggesting they will ask
for the Margaret Thatcher rebate to | 0:17:20 | 0:17:24 | |
be suspended. That is as a result of
putting the date on the bill. You | 0:17:24 | 0:17:29 | |
did not agree with the Brexit
committee and think it is important | 0:17:29 | 0:17:32 | |
that we set the date and time? I
think it is perfectly reasonable to | 0:17:32 | 0:17:37 | |
set the date and time and I think
these negotiations fill the time | 0:17:37 | 0:17:42 | |
available. The United States and
Australia agreed a free trade deal | 0:17:42 | 0:17:47 | |
between April 2003 and February
2004. These things don't need to be | 0:17:47 | 0:17:53 | |
interm Knabl if both sides want to
agree. I think the British | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
electorate would be very concerned
if nearly three years after the vote | 0:17:56 | 0:18:02 | |
to leave, we still hadn't left. I
think most people expected that we | 0:18:02 | 0:18:05 | |
would have left by now. The
negotiations realistically to get | 0:18:05 | 0:18:09 | |
through the approval of the European
Parliament and so on need to be | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
completed by at the end of next
year, going up to the last minute I | 0:18:13 | 0:18:18 | |
don't think is real is tick. To move
on to talk about a trade deal and | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
getting that done, the EU need to
agree to move on and we need to | 0:18:22 | 0:18:29 | |
settle the divorce, cabinet are
going to be talking about the amount | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
that needs to be spent on that,
Stephen what manned, are you happy | 0:18:31 | 0:18:38 | |
for the Government to offer more? I
hope that the Government will stick | 0:18:38 | 0:18:42 | |
to the Florence speech in terms of
ensuring that we fulfil our | 0:18:42 | 0:18:48 | |
liabilities and obligations. I'm not
clear exactly whether that is 20 | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
billion or 40 billion and I'm not
sure the government is. If part of | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
the divorce bill is then some
settlement for getting the trade | 0:18:56 | 0:19:00 | |
deal, we will need to examine that
carefully. Jacob Rees Mogg, is this | 0:19:00 | 0:19:06 | |
that might spark another war in the
party if the cabinet suggest they're | 0:19:06 | 0:19:11 | |
prepared to pay more? I think we
need to go back to what you said, | 0:19:11 | 0:19:18 | |
that the - the EU said they want us
to settle the money first. The | 0:19:18 | 0:19:28 | |
Government doesn't need to follow
that. They need our money. If we | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
don't pay any money for the final 21
months of the framework, the EU has | 0:19:31 | 0:19:39 | |
about 20 billion pounds gap in its
finances and it has no legal | 0:19:39 | 0:19:45 | |
requirement to borrow. So it
insolvents or the Germans and the | 0:19:45 | 0:19:49 | |
others pay more. So our position on
money is very strong and we | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
shouldn't fall into the trap of
thinking just because Mr Barnier | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
said it it is as if he has received
tablets of stone like Moses, he has | 0:19:57 | 0:20:03 | |
not. There is a sense that the
Government feels a mo generous offer | 0:20:03 | 0:20:11 | |
would set a good tone, the kind of
approach that Jacob Rees Mogg | 0:20:11 | 0:20:15 | |
suggests would not make for smooth
relations. It probably wouldn't. But | 0:20:15 | 0:20:20 | |
we have to be clear what we are
paying for and what we are getting. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:25 | |
No one is suggesting we should hand
over money without proper scrutiny. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:31 | |
It may be appropriate to put money
to facilitate international trade to | 0:20:31 | 0:20:36 | |
secure jobs. We have to be careful
about the analysis about what the | 0:20:36 | 0:20:41 | |
scale and size of Brexit dividend is
and the size of payments will be. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:47 | |
You mustn't confuse gross and net
and there is disagreement about some | 0:20:47 | 0:20:53 | |
of the numbers. On that, Jacob Rees
Mogg in his budget for Brexit | 0:20:53 | 0:20:59 | |
suggests in five years time we would
have a 135 billion Brexit bonus. Do | 0:20:59 | 0:21:04 | |
you think it is real is tick. He is
using some analysis that has some | 0:21:04 | 0:21:11 | |
flaws. It is predicting a price drop
in the United Kingdom of 10%. Tariff | 0:21:11 | 0:21:18 | |
drops will only be 3 or 4%. It is
predicting huge productivity gains, | 0:21:18 | 0:21:25 | |
the likes of which we have not seen
in 20 years. Thirdly, despite his | 0:21:25 | 0:21:30 | |
view on modellers there is evidence
that they weren't and if you go into | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
the detail of the analysis, some of
the data is 14 years out of date. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:42 | |
Jacob Rees Mogg, you're being
hopelessly optimistic? I don't think | 0:21:42 | 0:21:47 | |
that right. I think the fall in
prices comes because you make the | 0:21:47 | 0:21:52 | |
economy more competitive and you
take away tariffs which reduces the | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
price of food by 20%. That is a big
reduction. Bear in mind that the | 0:21:56 | 0:22:03 | |
biggest tariffs hit food, clothing
and foot wear that, harm the poorest | 0:22:03 | 0:22:07 | |
in society the most. The gains from
productivity come from is in | 0:22:07 | 0:22:14 | |
additional tariffs. Leading to other
saving and further investment I | 0:22:14 | 0:22:22 | |
think the modelling done by the
professor is as good as modelling | 0:22:22 | 0:22:26 | |
can be. That doesn't mean it is
infallible. The failure of gravity | 0:22:26 | 0:22:32 | |
model is well known. Michael Gove
was accused of auditioning for the | 0:22:32 | 0:22:39 | |
job of Chancellor by using long
words. Do you know any good long | 0:22:39 | 0:22:45 | |
economic words? I don't think that
we want to get into this type of | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
business actually. I think all
Conservatives and Steven and I very | 0:22:49 | 0:22:53 | |
much agree on this, want to show as
united a front as we can manage. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:59 | |
There are differences on some
aspects of policy, but in terms of | 0:22:59 | 0:23:03 | |
individuals we want to stand
together and support the best | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
interests of the government. Thank
you. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:11 | |
Brexit Secretary David Davis
was in Berlin this week trying | 0:23:11 | 0:23:13 | |
to win the support of business
leaders there for a comprehensive | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
free trade deal with the EU. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
He warned them against putting
'politics above prosperity' | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
and reportedly got a bit
of a frosty reception. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:25 | |
Well, the former Labour MP
Gisela Stuart was one of the leaders | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
of the Vote Leave referendum
campaign. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:30 | |
We travelled with Gisela to Germany
to meet the business leaders | 0:23:30 | 0:23:32 | |
she says will help secure a good
trade deal for the UK. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
Here's her film. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
I was born and brought up
in this part of Germany, | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
and although I've lived in the UK
for the past 40 years, | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
and represented the constituency
of Birmingham and Edgbaston for 20 | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
years, my family still live here,
and I've kept many links. | 0:23:56 | 0:24:01 | |
I was chair of Vote Leave,
and together with only a handful | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
of other Labour MPs,
we campaigned to leave | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
the European Union because we
thought the country would be | 0:24:09 | 0:24:11 | |
better off outside. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:13 | |
It's hard to remember now, but back
in the 1970s, when we joined | 0:24:13 | 0:24:17 | |
the European Economic Community,
people thought that by joining | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
the club we would see the kind
of economic miracle Germany | 0:24:20 | 0:24:25 | |
experienced in the '70s back home. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
The "Deutsche Wirtschaftswunder"
would come to Britain. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
But, of course, it didn't. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:34 | |
Within a few short years
of the devastation of World War II, | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
Germany had emerged as
the largest economy in Europe. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:42 | |
Germany's extraordinary
success is down to | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
the pragmatism of its business. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:48 | |
German Mittelstand is family
dominated, forward-thinking, | 0:24:48 | 0:24:53 | |
long-term thinking, reliability,
are very important values. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:59 | |
Changing moods on a political
landscape and changing frameworks | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
are toxic for our way of doing
business, and we want | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
that to go away. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:12 | |
German business is not given
to making big political statements | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
out of step with government policy,
but talk to those in decision-making | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
positions, and it is clear
that they want to secure a good deal | 0:25:19 | 0:25:22 | |
with the United Kingdom. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
BMW employs almost 90,000
people here in Germany, | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
and exports just under
1 million cars annually. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:33 | |
The UK is a vital market. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:37 | |
What we are really seeking right now
is more clarity, more certainty, | 0:25:37 | 0:25:41 | |
because in our cycle of investment,
cycle of development, | 0:25:41 | 0:25:46 | |
it's about a seven-year or so period
that we look at, | 0:25:46 | 0:25:50 | |
but we are now, of course, starting
to think about what comes next, | 0:25:50 | 0:25:54 | |
and what we need to see now
is what is going to be | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
the trading relationship,
how are the logistics going to look, | 0:25:57 | 0:26:00 | |
what is going to be
the requirements for people | 0:26:00 | 0:26:02 | |
moving across the continent? | 0:26:02 | 0:26:05 | |
Because all of these things
are important to us today. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:07 | |
And, by the way, they will be just
as important tomorrow. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:11 | |
Berlin is well aware that
if the European Commission | 0:26:11 | 0:26:13 | |
is allowed to put up trade barriers
against Britain, it will be | 0:26:13 | 0:26:17 | |
German business, German consumers
and German employees | 0:26:17 | 0:26:19 | |
who will suffer. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:24 | |
TRANSLATION: I think it's very
important that we complete | 0:26:24 | 0:26:26 | |
the first phase successfully. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
The first phase of the negotiations,
which looks at the financial | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
consequences of Great Britain
leaving the EU. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:34 | |
And then it's not a question
of punishment payments. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
It's about when you are part
of a multilayer, contractual | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
obligation and you want to leave
that, then of course it takes | 0:26:40 | 0:26:44 | |
a whole lot of obligations
which you have to deal with, | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
so both sides are satisfied and can
live with the consequences. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:56 | |
It isn't everyone's interests
for the UK to part on good terms. | 0:26:56 | 0:27:00 | |
Of course there was going to be
upset when the UK voted to leave, | 0:27:00 | 0:27:03 | |
but creating uncertainty over
the terms of UK's exit will simply | 0:27:03 | 0:27:07 | |
have a disruptive effect
on exports to UK markets. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:12 | |
Far better to have a sensible,
amicable negotiation that results | 0:27:12 | 0:27:15 | |
both sides being able to trade
together and work | 0:27:15 | 0:27:18 | |
together post-Brexit. | 0:27:18 | 0:27:25 | |
Markus Krall is managing
director of Goetzpartners, | 0:27:25 | 0:27:26 | |
and heads the Financial
Institution Industry Group. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:28 | |
Is it true to say that,
if we negotiate Brexit well, | 0:27:28 | 0:27:33 | |
then a good Brexit can actually
strengthen the United Kingdom, | 0:27:33 | 0:27:35 | |
the European Union and Germany? | 0:27:35 | 0:27:37 | |
It's absolutely true. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:39 | |
I think that this
is about two things. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
One, about proving that
free trade is possible | 0:27:42 | 0:27:47 | |
between a European Union that is
smaller and a former member country. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
If you don't prove that free
trade is possible there, | 0:27:50 | 0:27:53 | |
then the question becomes,
what is Europe standing for? | 0:27:53 | 0:27:57 | |
Number two is, I also
believe the free trade, | 0:27:57 | 0:28:02 | |
free market and democratic and less
bureaucratic approach that Britain | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
has chosen as the path
into the future is a role | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
model for Europe. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:12 | |
The time has come both
for the United Kingdom | 0:28:12 | 0:28:15 | |
and for the EU to be more clear
about what kind of | 0:28:15 | 0:28:17 | |
deal we can achieve. | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
Both sides need to be bold. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
As long as we remain open to free
trade and sensible co-operation, | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
we can arrive at something that
will benefit both sides. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:31 | |
But one thing's obvious -
if we are an open and free trading | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
economy, we've got one big
cheerleader on our side, | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
and that is German business. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:42 | |
That was Gisela Stuart
setting out her case | 0:28:42 | 0:28:44 | |
and we'll be hearing
from the opposite side | 0:28:44 | 0:28:46 | |
of the argument in the coming weeks. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:48 | |
Gisela Stuart joins us in the studio
now, as does Alastair Campbell. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
He used to work for Tony Blair
in Number 10, set up | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
the New European Newspaper
to campaign against Brexit, | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
and is so pro-European that at this
year's Labour conference | 0:28:56 | 0:28:58 | |
he was heard playing Ode
to Joy on the bagpipes. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:00 | |
Welcome both of you. | 0:29:00 | 0:29:05 | |
We will start with your point in the
film, that you think the German | 0:29:05 | 0:29:10 | |
business once the EU to offer the UK
a generous deal because it is in | 0:29:10 | 0:29:15 | |
their interests, yet the president
of the German equivalent of the CBI | 0:29:15 | 0:29:19 | |
said that defending the single
market must be the priority for the | 0:29:19 | 0:29:24 | |
EU, and another says that the
cohesion of the remaining member | 0:29:24 | 0:29:30 | |
states remains the highest priority.
The president of the CBI just after | 0:29:30 | 0:29:36 | |
the referendum said that it would be
in nobody 's interest to introduce | 0:29:36 | 0:29:41 | |
tariffs and trade barriers. On the
UK side, I don't think there's a | 0:29:41 | 0:29:49 | |
full understanding that economic
interests are incredibly important, | 0:29:49 | 0:29:53 | |
that they are trying to cover
economic interests on the cohesion | 0:29:53 | 0:30:00 | |
of the 27. I think different
economic interests will raise the | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
head of different countries. The
German auto industry is as important | 0:30:04 | 0:30:12 | |
as the financial sector is here. The
banking crisis is far from over, but | 0:30:12 | 0:30:18 | |
the big riffs which were going on is
that the E U is losing its second | 0:30:18 | 0:30:24 | |
biggest net contributor. Countries
like Germany want a deal with the UK | 0:30:24 | 0:30:28 | |
that is a free open market. There
are other tensions in the EU that | 0:30:28 | 0:30:35 | |
wants to become more protectionist,
and that is a bad thing. Looking at | 0:30:35 | 0:30:39 | |
the film there with the Jacob
Rees-Mogg interview. No matter what | 0:30:39 | 0:30:47 | |
side of leave you are, it is
delusional and all driven by wishful | 0:30:47 | 0:30:52 | |
thinking. You could find a
businessman who says Brexit will be | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
good for Germany. The vast bulk of
British businesses think this is a | 0:30:56 | 0:31:00 | |
disaster, as do the vast bulk of
European businesses. One of the | 0:31:00 | 0:31:05 | |
delusions on which they ran their
campaign is the idea that they need | 0:31:05 | 0:31:10 | |
us more than we need them. That is
not true. Be you self about £80 | 0:31:10 | 0:31:16 | |
billion more in goods and services
into the UK than we do to them, and | 0:31:16 | 0:31:21 | |
Germany has one of the biggest
deficits. It is in their interest. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:25 | |
Of course it is, but it is a myth
that they need us more than we need | 0:31:25 | 0:31:31 | |
them. The damage that will be done
to us, even with a good deal. Let's | 0:31:31 | 0:31:38 | |
be frank, where these negotiations
are, Theresa May is either going to | 0:31:38 | 0:31:43 | |
end up with a bad deal and dumber or
no Deal. A bad deal is bad, and a no | 0:31:43 | 0:31:50 | |
deal is a catastrophe. You are
setting up ideas that which were not | 0:31:50 | 0:31:57 | |
there to begin with and knocking
them down. Delusional. 35 billion, | 0:31:57 | 0:32:04 | |
the Brexit bonus. If we had a
referendum, it was a democratic | 0:32:04 | 0:32:09 | |
decision. I know you don't like it
and that a lot of business would | 0:32:09 | 0:32:12 | |
have preferred to stay with the
status quo. We have had the | 0:32:12 | 0:32:17 | |
referendum. Undermining political
institutions is in no one's | 0:32:17 | 0:32:22 | |
interests. It is functioning
democracies which lead to economic | 0:32:22 | 0:32:28 | |
stability. Theresa May fought an
election Inc on a hard Brexit that | 0:32:28 | 0:32:35 | |
was rejected. As we heard from BMW,
there is uncertainty for business. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:48 | |
There will be elections, European
elections, in 2019. There will be a | 0:32:48 | 0:32:53 | |
change of the Commission and the
parliament. We have a narrow window | 0:32:53 | 0:32:58 | |
to implement the mandate for the
referendum which Parliament voted | 0:32:58 | 0:33:02 | |
for. So rather than you undermining
this country, why don't you work | 0:33:02 | 0:33:09 | |
together to get the best deal?
Because we totally disagree. You | 0:33:09 | 0:33:13 | |
don't want a good deal? I'm in
favour of a good deal, and I could | 0:33:13 | 0:33:19 | |
give them some advice as to how they
get a good deal. First, you have a | 0:33:19 | 0:33:25 | |
cabinet that has an agreed strategy.
18 months in, they don't have that. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:31 | |
I am not undermining a deal. I am
continuing to pose questions about | 0:33:31 | 0:33:36 | |
what they are trying to do and how
they are trying to do it. This is | 0:33:36 | 0:33:42 | |
democracy. Democracy is the ability
for Parliament, which is not doing | 0:33:42 | 0:33:47 | |
its job properly, and the public, to
keep scrutinising, and if they want | 0:33:47 | 0:33:51 | |
to change their mind, having the
right to do that. You were trying to | 0:33:51 | 0:33:58 | |
encourage the Taoiseach yesterday to
play hardball with the UK. I am on | 0:33:58 | 0:34:02 | |
the side of the UK, and I am worried
that if we go down the path that we | 0:34:02 | 0:34:08 | |
are being taken down, and Theresa
May and Boris Johnson and the rest | 0:34:08 | 0:34:12 | |
of them, this shambolic path, we are
going to do fundamental, lasting | 0:34:12 | 0:34:17 | |
damage to the country we love. I
don't care about the Civil Aviation | 0:34:17 | 0:34:22 | |
Authority. I care about Britain. --
I don't care about the European | 0:34:22 | 0:34:28 | |
Union. If every lorry going into the
UK today was stopped for just two | 0:34:28 | 0:34:36 | |
minutes, we would create an instant
17 mile traffic jam. These people | 0:34:36 | 0:34:42 | |
just don't care... I am not these
people! Let us not conflate... You | 0:34:42 | 0:34:52 | |
either decide that you are
implementing a democratic decision | 0:34:52 | 0:34:56 | |
of a referendum that was called and
over 17 million voted. You will not | 0:34:56 | 0:35:02 | |
stop me debating it. Just as Nigel
Farage... Stop talking about Nigel | 0:35:02 | 0:35:10 | |
Farrell Raj. Vote Leave was not
Nigel Farage. There is no desire in | 0:35:10 | 0:35:21 | |
Germany to punish the United
Kingdom. They are behaving | 0:35:21 | 0:35:26 | |
reasonably. There is a battle of
protectionism and free market going | 0:35:26 | 0:35:30 | |
on. If we implement this properly,
give businesses the kind of | 0:35:30 | 0:35:36 | |
incentives they want, we can get a
good deal. So you want a bad deal? | 0:35:36 | 0:35:42 | |
You are driven by wishful thinking.
Gisela Stuart, you are saying that | 0:35:42 | 0:35:49 | |
business will intervene to prevent
things like tariffs being put in | 0:35:49 | 0:35:53 | |
place? They are leaving it a bit
late to put pressure on. You will | 0:35:53 | 0:35:58 | |
find that business is laying out the
kind of things they need to get | 0:35:58 | 0:36:01 | |
those deals. I can find as much
fault with the speed of the | 0:36:01 | 0:36:06 | |
progress, but what I really do
resent is that you are actually | 0:36:06 | 0:36:10 | |
encouraging other countries to
undermine... Know I am not! I spoke | 0:36:10 | 0:36:19 | |
out in support of the Irish
Taoiseach because I spent a lot of | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
time with Tony Blair and his team on
the Good Friday Agreement. The | 0:36:22 | 0:36:26 | |
people who are driving this hard
Brexit without thinking it through, | 0:36:26 | 0:36:30 | |
still no answer on how you do Brexit
in our island without a hard border. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:36 | |
I think the Irish Taoiseach is right
to call out the government on the | 0:36:36 | 0:36:44 | |
incompetence and the fact they have
not thought it through. You accept | 0:36:44 | 0:36:48 | |
the result of the referendum and the
fact that we will be leaving the EU? | 0:36:48 | 0:36:53 | |
I accept the result of the
referendum, but I do not accept that | 0:36:53 | 0:36:58 | |
the country will definitely leave,
because the country is entitled to | 0:36:58 | 0:37:03 | |
change its mind. As the chaos and
costs mount, the public is entitled | 0:37:03 | 0:37:08 | |
to change its mind and will change
its mind. There is no evidence at | 0:37:08 | 0:37:13 | |
the moment. Come out with me! Allow
me to finish the sentence. There is | 0:37:13 | 0:37:22 | |
a changing of mind happening, a
crystallisation. Unlike you, I have | 0:37:22 | 0:37:28 | |
fought five elections and I have won
five elections. I have probably | 0:37:28 | 0:37:34 | |
spoken to more people like you. You
may do, I'm just saying, come out on | 0:37:34 | 0:37:39 | |
the road with me... 40% of the
population in the middle just want | 0:37:39 | 0:37:45 | |
us to get on with it. What that film
showed is that if you want to make | 0:37:45 | 0:37:51 | |
it a self-fulfilling prophecy that
it's a disaster, which I don't. I | 0:37:51 | 0:37:56 | |
want to implement a deal that is
good for British jobs. The rest of | 0:37:56 | 0:38:02 | |
the world is changing in terms of
technology. Currently, Germany | 0:38:02 | 0:38:09 | |
hasn't even got a government, and
nobody is laughing about that. And | 0:38:09 | 0:38:15 | |
they are stable without a
government! Let's leave it there. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:19 | |
It's coming up to 11.40,
you're watching the Sunday Politics. | 0:38:19 | 0:38:22 | |
Coming up on the programme,
we'll be looking at the latest | 0:38:22 | 0:38:24 | |
opinion polls and we'll bring
you the results of our moodbox | 0:38:24 | 0:38:27 | |
asking whether Phllip Hammond
or John McDonnell should be running | 0:38:27 | 0:38:29 | |
the economy. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:37 | |
Hello! | 0:38:37 | 0:38:39 | |
And a warm welcome to your
local politics show. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:41 | |
Now, it's nice and cosy
in the studio, but over the course | 0:38:41 | 0:38:45 | |
of this weekend and the last week
or two the cold winter weather | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
has started to bite. | 0:38:48 | 0:38:57 | |
As it does, we report
on the North East councils looking | 0:38:57 | 0:39:00 | |
to get into the energy business. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:01 | |
Could it be a way to deliver
lower gas and electric | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
bills for customers? | 0:39:04 | 0:39:05 | |
Well, talking about that
and all the week's political news | 0:39:05 | 0:39:08 | |
in the region, except perhaps
the misuse of sausage rolls | 0:39:08 | 0:39:10 | |
by certain unnamed bakeries,
the Conservative MP for Scarborough | 0:39:10 | 0:39:12 | |
and Whitby Robert Goodwill,
who is an education minister | 0:39:12 | 0:39:14 | |
as well, and the MP for Wansbeck
and Labour Party | 0:39:14 | 0:39:17 | |
chairman, Ian Lavery. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:18 | |
Welcome to you both. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:19 | |
But first, Teesside MPs this week
wrote to the Chancellor calling | 0:39:19 | 0:39:21 | |
upon him to address what they see
as a crisis in funding | 0:39:21 | 0:39:24 | |
for Cleveland Police. | 0:39:24 | 0:39:25 | |
The previous day, headteachers went
to Downing street to demand more | 0:39:25 | 0:39:28 | |
money for the region's schools. | 0:39:28 | 0:39:29 | |
And the Federation of
Small Businesses were next, | 0:39:29 | 0:39:31 | |
they want a cut in business rates
and action on broadband. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:34 | |
And then there's the little matter
of the £430 million required | 0:39:34 | 0:39:36 | |
for new trains on the Tyne &
Wear Metro, backed this | 0:39:36 | 0:39:39 | |
week by none other than
the former Chancellor | 0:39:39 | 0:39:41 | |
- remember him? | 0:39:41 | 0:39:42 | |
- George Osborne. | 0:39:42 | 0:39:43 | |
Well, when it comes to next
Wednesday's budget it seems | 0:39:43 | 0:39:45 | |
there are no shortage of ways
for Philip Hammond | 0:39:45 | 0:39:48 | |
to splash the cash. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:49 | |
Robert, would you accept that this
budget is make or break | 0:39:49 | 0:39:51 | |
for the Northern Powerhouse? | 0:39:51 | 0:40:00 | |
Well, we've seen tremendous
investment coming into the North - | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
when I was a roads minister we had
money going to the A1, | 0:40:03 | 0:40:06 | |
money on the Western bypass,
money at the end of the Tyne Tunnel, | 0:40:06 | 0:40:09 | |
so we have seen investment
in the north, and indeed | 0:40:09 | 0:40:11 | |
with the ending of the Crossrail
project we will see the rebalancing | 0:40:11 | 0:40:14 | |
I think of investment much more
between the north and south. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
But be in no doubt, it's very
important we continue | 0:40:17 | 0:40:19 | |
to invest in rail and roads,
because it's only with good | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
infrastructure that we can actually
develop the economy up here. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:24 | |
And businesses would agree with you,
and some of them might take issue | 0:40:24 | 0:40:27 | |
with the idea that it's not that
there's no investment, | 0:40:27 | 0:40:30 | |
that it's tremendous
investment that we've seen - | 0:40:30 | 0:40:32 | |
the problem is with the Northern
Powerhouse, | 0:40:32 | 0:40:33 | |
you've raised expectations to such
high levels on this idea, | 0:40:33 | 0:40:36 | |
and the perception amongst small
businesses, even allies | 0:40:36 | 0:40:38 | |
like George Osborne,
is that as yet the Government hasn't | 0:40:38 | 0:40:40 | |
delivered the big project that
would back up the | 0:40:40 | 0:40:42 | |
rhetoric with money. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:46 | |
Well, as I said we have a £44
billion roads investment strategy, | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
much of which is going to the north. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:58 | |
In my own area we've a project
in the pipeline for the A64, | 0:40:58 | 0:41:01 | |
connecting the East Coast to the A1. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:03 | |
Would you accept though that it's
not been good enough so far | 0:41:03 | 0:41:06 | |
to convince the doubters? | 0:41:06 | 0:41:07 | |
Well, I think what you need to look
at is across the board - | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
the money's gone into Manchester,
gone into Leeds. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:12 | |
We're looking at a high-speed three
across the Pennines, | 0:41:12 | 0:41:14 | |
and of course Anne-Marie Trevelyan,
my colleague in Northumberland | 0:41:14 | 0:41:16 | |
is very keen to see money
going into the A1, so it'll be | 0:41:16 | 0:41:20 | |
interesting to see what money
is there for projects like that. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:22 | |
Ian Lavery, when it comes
to helping us in the north, | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
what should be the number one
priority in the budget? | 0:41:25 | 0:41:27 | |
Transport investment,
public sector pay, | 0:41:27 | 0:41:28 | |
investment in our
hospitals - what is it? | 0:41:28 | 0:41:30 | |
All of those things. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:31 | |
But one thing's absolutely certain,
is that the North doesn't end | 0:41:31 | 0:41:34 | |
at Manchester, Leeds or Liverpool. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:35 | |
Between those areas
and the Scottish Borders, | 0:41:35 | 0:41:37 | |
where we live and we see on a daily
basis they complete | 0:41:37 | 0:41:40 | |
lack of investment... | 0:41:40 | 0:41:41 | |
-- the complete lack of investment. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:42 | |
-- the complete lack of investment. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:46 | |
You mentioned rhetoric -
plenty of rhetoric, | 0:41:46 | 0:41:49 | |
not enough finances,
not enough investment | 0:41:49 | 0:41:50 | |
in all the things that you mention. | 0:41:50 | 0:41:52 | |
What we would like to
see from the budget, | 0:41:52 | 0:41:55 | |
which would help the north-east,
we need to look at Universal | 0:41:55 | 0:42:00 | |
Credit, we need a post
on Universal Credit... | 0:42:00 | 0:42:02 | |
We need to look at infrastructure
programmes and investment | 0:42:02 | 0:42:04 | |
in the local economies,
when it look at the public sector | 0:42:04 | 0:42:14 | |
how we can rid ourselves of that pay
cap, | 0:42:16 | 0:42:18 | |
and also invest monies
in the public sector fully. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:20 | |
Sure. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:21 | |
And to be honest with you I expected
you to say that all of those | 0:42:21 | 0:42:25 | |
were a priority, and that's
the problem, isn't it? | 0:42:25 | 0:42:27 | |
If you are going to meet
all the promises that Labour makes | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
on all these issues,
there are very few that really | 0:42:30 | 0:42:32 | |
believe you can do that,
as John McDonnell seemed to suggest | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
this week by just taxing a few
businesses and the wealthy. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:38 | |
You are going to have to ask
all people to pay more tax, | 0:42:38 | 0:42:41 | |
and shouldn't you be
honest about that? | 0:42:41 | 0:42:42 | |
I think we are honest. At the
election you will recall that we | 0:42:42 | 0:42:45 | |
were the only party, the Labour
Party, who produced a great book | 0:42:45 | 0:42:47 | |
along with the manifesto...
Theresa May said it was incredible | 0:42:47 | 0:42:53 | |
you could fund that. But we were
quite clear, crystal clear, because | 0:42:53 | 0:43:01 | |
it is important that we are upfront
with the electorate, on how we fund | 0:43:01 | 0:43:07 | |
what we want. Robert, this week
there have been new powers added -- | 0:43:07 | 0:43:13 | |
handed to this transport body. With
the radical idea be to hand all the | 0:43:13 | 0:43:19 | |
money and all the power for Northern
transport to those who know it best? | 0:43:19 | 0:43:28 | |
We had a referendum about whether we
should have a regional level of | 0:43:28 | 0:43:32 | |
Government, and I think people want
more bureaucracy. You didn't worry | 0:43:32 | 0:43:36 | |
about bureaucracy when it came to
mayors in separate -- certain parts | 0:43:36 | 0:43:40 | |
of the country! We have MPs in
certain parts of the North of | 0:43:40 | 0:43:46 | |
England... We are getting
substantial investment in the North. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:52 | |
Look at the money that has been
going in on the western relief road. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:59 | |
Let's look at the Tyne & Wear Metro.
Would it be acceptable for the | 0:43:59 | 0:44:04 | |
Chancellor to say I'm not going to
give you the money directly, you've | 0:44:04 | 0:44:07 | |
got to do it from -- through a
private company? When I first went | 0:44:07 | 0:44:14 | |
to the Department for Transport we
looked at finance through the public | 0:44:14 | 0:44:17 | |
sector, and we decided for some of
the big road projects for the | 0:44:17 | 0:44:21 | |
Government to borrow money more
cheaply from the private sector. We | 0:44:21 | 0:44:27 | |
need to make sure we don't max out
on our credit card Bill like the | 0:44:27 | 0:44:31 | |
last Labour Government did. Trains
are generally owned by the rolling | 0:44:31 | 0:44:39 | |
stock companies that leads them out,
so the principle there is a | 0:44:39 | 0:44:42 | |
different one to having a PFI such
as the one we have for schools. I | 0:44:42 | 0:44:51 | |
personally think we should be
looking at the correct investment, | 0:44:51 | 0:44:55 | |
not just in the Tyne & Wear Metro
but also the line in Northumberland, | 0:44:55 | 0:45:00 | |
we should never forget
Northumberland, and that money | 0:45:00 | 0:45:05 | |
should be coming from central
government to invest in that | 0:45:05 | 0:45:09 | |
infrastructure, to connect time in
the north to the city regions. Now, | 0:45:09 | 0:45:14 | |
the cold weather is upon us, and the
difficulties faced by many try to | 0:45:14 | 0:45:18 | |
pay their fuel bills. 152,000
households in the north-east are | 0:45:18 | 0:45:22 | |
affected by fuel poverty. People who
spent more than 10% of their income | 0:45:22 | 0:45:28 | |
on gas or electricity.
The Government says the market is | 0:45:28 | 0:45:32 | |
broken, and it has promised to cap
bills on the most expensive tariffs, | 0:45:32 | 0:45:36 | |
an idea initially proposed by
Labour. Could there be another | 0:45:36 | 0:45:40 | |
solution to the problem of those
rising bills, in the shape of local | 0:45:40 | 0:45:43 | |
councils setting up their own energy
firms? | 0:45:43 | 0:45:48 | |
It is not just shop prices putting
people under pressure in Newcastle. | 0:45:48 | 0:45:52 | |
Businesses and the public are
feeling the strain from rising | 0:45:52 | 0:45:55 | |
energy bills. The owner of this
newly opened restaurant says the | 0:45:55 | 0:45:59 | |
cost of illiteracy is crippling.
They put their prices up 11% last | 0:45:59 | 0:46:05 | |
time, and inflation's going up to
2%. So they are making 9% of people | 0:46:05 | 0:46:12 | |
who haven't got the money, who are
struggling. And they are making | 0:46:12 | 0:46:15 | |
billions. With two small children,
Colin and Vicky have to keep their | 0:46:15 | 0:46:20 | |
home warm. Energy prices are going
up all the time. It is not just a | 0:46:20 | 0:46:27 | |
struggle for myself but the public,
everybody's struggling. I can never | 0:46:27 | 0:46:31 | |
understand the bills that they give
you, and all the units and this | 0:46:31 | 0:46:36 | |
price Purvis... It is all a bit
complicated. I can see why old | 0:46:36 | 0:46:41 | |
people wouldn't understand it. Fuel
campaigners say they can see why | 0:46:41 | 0:46:46 | |
some families are pushed to the
edge. We see 15% of older couples | 0:46:46 | 0:46:54 | |
and young people having to choose
whether to feed themselves and their | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
families and having to have the
electricity on. This is just the | 0:46:56 | 0:47:02 | |
start of the winter, so the problem
is only going to get worse. So is | 0:47:02 | 0:47:05 | |
this part of the answer? A council
run power station close to the banks | 0:47:05 | 0:47:09 | |
of the Tyne. Basically we've got two
identical power engines. It's | 0:47:09 | 0:47:18 | |
basically a very large 20 cylinder
engine running on natural gas. The | 0:47:18 | 0:47:23 | |
plant supplies electricity and heat
to public buildings in Gateshead and | 0:47:23 | 0:47:28 | |
from next year, hundreds of homes.
Backers say the result is cheaper | 0:47:28 | 0:47:33 | |
and greener energy. Customers are
getting a lower carbon, lower cost | 0:47:33 | 0:47:38 | |
source of energy. We discovered
their energy compared to the market | 0:47:38 | 0:47:41 | |
rate, and the comfort is coming from
a lower carbon source. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:49 | |
Are you having trouble finding the
right tariff for you? Don't worry, | 0:47:49 | 0:47:54 | |
Nottingham, help is here! Some
councils have gone further, | 0:47:54 | 0:47:58 | |
launching not-for-profit energy
suppliers that serve whole cities. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:03 | |
Nottingham's Robin Hood energy was
the first. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:06 | |
We are not about setting aside money
to pay dividends to shareholders or | 0:48:06 | 0:48:12 | |
two massive director -- directors'
salaries or bonuses, we are about | 0:48:12 | 0:48:18 | |
setting aside any profit to bring
back down the price. A number of | 0:48:18 | 0:48:23 | |
councils are considering following
suit, but this is potentially a | 0:48:23 | 0:48:25 | |
gamble with taxpayers' money, and
for customers it won't always be the | 0:48:25 | 0:48:30 | |
cheapest option. Here at University
-- at the Newcastle University, | 0:48:30 | 0:48:35 | |
experts point out the pitfalls.
Although these schemes look | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
promising, they face a lot of
serious challenges, so it is a | 0:48:38 | 0:48:42 | |
highly competitive market, there are
technical risks about how to | 0:48:42 | 0:48:46 | |
maintain the infrastructure itself
and make sure it is reliable and | 0:48:46 | 0:48:48 | |
efficient. Do you like the idea of a
council owned energy supplier? I am | 0:48:48 | 0:48:55 | |
not sure, but if it was a cheaper
option is to be something to look | 0:48:55 | 0:48:59 | |
bad. Not the council in the area I
live in, thank you. You don't think | 0:48:59 | 0:49:03 | |
they are up to running the energy
company? Not particularly, I | 0:49:03 | 0:49:09 | |
sometimes wonder why they are --
whether they can run the city. It is | 0:49:09 | 0:49:15 | |
still not quite clear the local
approach will work. | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
An endless supply of energy I
gather. Is this something councils | 0:49:18 | 0:49:22 | |
should be dabbling in when they have
to concentrate on many other things | 0:49:22 | 0:49:27 | |
with limited resources? I think it's
a great idea, it is visionary, it is | 0:49:27 | 0:49:32 | |
happening in other countries across
Europe, it is happening in America, | 0:49:32 | 0:49:36 | |
cities in America, looking at
producing their own electricity, and | 0:49:36 | 0:49:42 | |
it can only mean a good thing if
indeed the people in the region | 0:49:42 | 0:49:47 | |
themselves actually receive cheaper
energy. There is legislation placed | 0:49:47 | 0:49:49 | |
at the sports -- time, which
prevents local municipal owned | 0:49:49 | 0:49:55 | |
energy companies from providing
cheap energy, cheaper energy than | 0:49:55 | 0:50:01 | |
what is available on the grid. And
if this is to be successful, we have | 0:50:01 | 0:50:05 | |
got to help that it will be cheaper
for those in the region, moving | 0:50:05 | 0:50:12 | |
people out of fuel poverty, so if we
cannot get cheaper energy, then what | 0:50:12 | 0:50:16 | |
is the point?
Robert, would it be more effective | 0:50:16 | 0:50:21 | |
to see councils given this chance to
do this, rather than these caps | 0:50:21 | 0:50:26 | |
being proposed by all of you? We
have protections for people on low | 0:50:26 | 0:50:30 | |
incomes, a discount worth -- Ford to
people... And of course we have the | 0:50:30 | 0:50:38 | |
winter payments. But the problem is
not with suppliers, we have 60 | 0:50:38 | 0:50:42 | |
supplies at the moment, up from 13
in 2010, the problem is that 60% of | 0:50:42 | 0:50:48 | |
consumers particularly older people
are on a standard variable tariff, | 0:50:48 | 0:50:52 | |
and the Bill that is coming before
Parliament for us to consider is | 0:50:52 | 0:50:56 | |
that -- for those people to have
that tariff respected, a | 0:50:56 | 0:51:00 | |
safeguarding tariff. There are
people right now choosing as we | 0:51:00 | 0:51:05 | |
heard between heating and eating.
When is this cap going to appear? At | 0:51:05 | 0:51:11 | |
the moment, there are 60% of people
paying more than they should, so the | 0:51:11 | 0:51:16 | |
first point... And the market's has
proven that there are people who | 0:51:16 | 0:51:20 | |
will not shop around. When is that
cap would happen? The legislation | 0:51:20 | 0:51:24 | |
will be in Parliament by the end of
the year, meaning that Ofgem will | 0:51:24 | 0:51:29 | |
set that level at a fair level, to
prevent the situation where loyal | 0:51:29 | 0:51:33 | |
customers, those who do not
understand the market or have access | 0:51:33 | 0:51:41 | |
to the Internet, can get the best
deal. | 0:51:41 | 0:51:44 | |
A lot of suppliers out there... This
was classed as a Marxist policy by | 0:51:44 | 0:51:51 | |
the Conservatives when it was first
mentioned by Ed Miliband, and now... | 0:51:51 | 0:51:57 | |
Isn't the answer more competition?
The answer is not more competition, | 0:51:57 | 0:52:01 | |
the answer is to make sure, and what
the Labour Party says... The Labour | 0:52:01 | 0:52:09 | |
Party is quite clear, we would take
back into public ownership the | 0:52:09 | 0:52:14 | |
energy companies. You can only
control what you earn. Not what | 0:52:14 | 0:52:19 | |
we've -- we've got 30,000 people
dying every year because of the lack | 0:52:19 | 0:52:25 | |
of heat in their properties. And it
cost you £30 billion to £40 billion | 0:52:25 | 0:52:32 | |
to nationalise the national Grid. I
think saving 30,000 pupils's | 0:52:32 | 0:52:40 | |
people's lives should be top of the
agenda. What about those 30,000 | 0:52:40 | 0:52:48 | |
people. For many -- there's no doubt
what issue has been keeping MPs busy | 0:52:48 | 0:52:57 | |
this week, but we like to discover
what else has been going on in the | 0:52:57 | 0:53:02 | |
world of politics, other than you
know what. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:11 | |
Unemployment in the north-east
fell in the three | 0:53:11 | 0:53:13 | |
months to September by 6,000. | 0:53:13 | 0:53:14 | |
There was also a slight
drop in Cumbria. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:16 | |
The Bishop of Durham, the Right
Reverend Paul Butler, says he's | 0:53:16 | 0:53:19 | |
heard heartbreaking stories about
how Universal Credit is devastating | 0:53:19 | 0:53:21 | |
the lives of claimants. | 0:53:21 | 0:53:24 | |
He was speaking in the Lords. | 0:53:24 | 0:53:26 | |
A debate is to be held
over the plight of WASPI | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
women, who are fighting changes
to the state pension age. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:31 | |
Stockton North MP Alex
Cunningham urged the | 0:53:31 | 0:53:33 | |
pensions minister,
Hexham's Guy Opperman, | 0:53:33 | 0:53:34 | |
to engage with the women. | 0:53:34 | 0:53:38 | |
It won't go away, so why
doesn't the Minister engage | 0:53:38 | 0:53:41 | |
with the campaigners
to find a solution? | 0:53:41 | 0:53:43 | |
The Government has already
introduced transitional | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
arrangements costing
£1.1 billion, in 2011. | 0:53:46 | 0:53:47 | |
Newcastle councillors will decide
this week whether to hand | 0:53:47 | 0:53:50 | |
over the city's parks
to a charitable trust. | 0:53:50 | 0:53:52 | |
And finally, the National
Lottery's awarded Redcar | 0:53:52 | 0:53:58 | |
and Cleveland Council nearly £70,000
for a project about the history of | 0:53:58 | 0:54:01 | |
the iron and steel industry. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:03 | |
While £4,500 will go
towards exploring the | 0:54:03 | 0:54:05 | |
history of pigeon
fancying in Skinningrove. | 0:54:05 | 0:54:06 | |
Now, I do want to discuss one
other issue that I think | 0:54:06 | 0:54:09 | |
has come up in the Commons this
week, and which will no doubt come | 0:54:09 | 0:54:12 | |
up next week, which
is Universal Credit. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:19 | |
Robert Goodwill, there is growing
pressure from the Bishop of Durham | 0:54:19 | 0:54:23 | |
even within your own party to give
ground on this. A listening | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
Government should be able --
prepared to move on this issue. | 0:54:26 | 0:54:32 | |
About 8% of claimants are on
Universal Credit at the moment, that | 0:54:32 | 0:54:35 | |
is going to extent a 10% in January.
And yes, there are emergency | 0:54:35 | 0:54:42 | |
payments people can take to tide
them through, and that 50% of | 0:54:42 | 0:54:47 | |
claimants... I think the Government
will look at it, and certainly we | 0:54:47 | 0:54:51 | |
are getting feedback, but what is
fundamentally the case is that | 0:54:51 | 0:54:55 | |
Universal Credit is helping people
get on to work, but under the old | 0:54:55 | 0:54:59 | |
system people did not want to work
more than 16 hours, for every £1 | 0:54:59 | 0:55:03 | |
they lost they earned 96p. Universal
Credit is getting people into work, | 0:55:03 | 0:55:11 | |
but in the initial period we have to
get them the work they need. If the | 0:55:11 | 0:55:19 | |
Government does tackle this, will
that be enough, particularly as to | 0:55:19 | 0:55:23 | |
how they dealt with that help line
that was costing them money? Any | 0:55:23 | 0:55:27 | |
Government who proposes a policy
that is going to push more people | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
into poverty, including hundreds of
thousands of more children, should | 0:55:31 | 0:55:35 | |
really, seriously, look at
themselves. If I put in a claim for | 0:55:35 | 0:55:38 | |
Universal Credit today, then I would
not receive a payment until after | 0:55:38 | 0:55:43 | |
the New Year. I think the issue is,
Richard, will they tackle it? There | 0:55:43 | 0:55:51 | |
must be pressure put on the
Government to ensure that people | 0:55:51 | 0:55:55 | |
have got bread on the table for
their kids, they have, at this | 0:55:55 | 0:56:00 | |
particular point in the year, it
isn't Christmas. Any Government | 0:56:00 | 0:56:04 | |
pushing people into poverty should
look themselves seriously in the | 0:56:04 | 0:56:07 | |
mirror. We're going to have to move
on. The Prime Minister says she | 0:56:07 | 0:56:13 | |
wants to see many more new homes
built over the next decade, but how | 0:56:13 | 0:56:17 | |
many should there be in the
north-east and Cumbria? Our local | 0:56:17 | 0:56:22 | |
councillors have their view, with
plans for more than 180,000, but | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
that was before a new consultation
which appears to put the brakes on | 0:56:26 | 0:56:31 | |
some of those ambitions. It says
house-building should be | 0:56:31 | 0:56:35 | |
concentrated on where an affluent
population is expected to grow, so | 0:56:35 | 0:56:41 | |
that means fewer new homes in places
like Sunderland, Middlesbrough and | 0:56:41 | 0:56:45 | |
Carlisle.
According to the Government, the | 0:56:45 | 0:56:48 | |
formula will mean the right homes in
the right places. The context | 0:56:48 | 0:56:51 | |
calculation drawn up in offices in
Whitehall is based on the idea that | 0:56:51 | 0:56:56 | |
more homes should be built in areas
where house prices are high. | 0:56:56 | 0:56:58 | |
more homes should be built in areas
where house prices are high. Where | 0:56:58 | 0:57:00 | |
prices are cheaper, the opposite may
be the case. Most places in the | 0:57:00 | 0:57:06 | |
north-east, Cumbria and North
Yorkshire, would see few homes built | 0:57:06 | 0:57:09 | |
under the scheme. In total, | 0:57:09 | 0:57:12 | |
Yorkshire, would see few homes built
under the scheme. In total, 30,000 | 0:57:12 | 0:57:12 | |
fewer of the next decade.
Critics say both the data on which | 0:57:12 | 0:57:18 | |
the calculations are based on the
idea itself are deeply flawed. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:29 | |
Housing growth is a vital component
of our investment programme, without | 0:57:29 | 0:57:33 | |
it we do not attract the investment
or get those jobs. We may have to | 0:57:33 | 0:57:37 | |
temper what we would want to do. I
don't think we would be willing to | 0:57:37 | 0:57:41 | |
do that, I am not willing and the
Mayor is not willing. I think we | 0:57:41 | 0:57:45 | |
would have to work harder to attract
that investment, we would have | 0:57:45 | 0:57:48 | |
people who might go elsewhere when
they could live here and work in the | 0:57:48 | 0:57:52 | |
time. That has a knock on effect of
our investment programme, our | 0:57:52 | 0:57:55 | |
strategy. And I think ultimately it
means we have a Government that says | 0:57:55 | 0:58:01 | |
places like Middlesbrough and up in
the north are not necessarily worth | 0:58:01 | 0:58:04 | |
living or working in. Robert, with
all the talk from your party about | 0:58:04 | 0:58:10 | |
building new homes, it is ironic
that the formula could see fewer new | 0:58:10 | 0:58:16 | |
homes being built in the North?
House-building is at more than | 0:58:16 | 0:58:20 | |
double the level it was under the
last Labour Government in 2009, but | 0:58:20 | 0:58:26 | |
people want to buy homes, where they
will not -- where they want to live | 0:58:26 | 0:58:30 | |
and work. The measure the Government
has introduced focused -- focuses on | 0:58:30 | 0:58:37 | |
the area people cannot afford to buy
homes, but where jobs might be. So | 0:58:37 | 0:58:43 | |
you can't force people to live where
they don't want to live. According | 0:58:43 | 0:58:47 | |
to the formula, Scarborough should
be building over 6000 fewer homes | 0:58:47 | 0:58:53 | |
council wants them to build.
Presumably if you like the former | 0:58:53 | 0:58:57 | |
lady would support that? When it
comes down to it, we have plenty of | 0:58:57 | 0:59:08 | |
land allocated in the country to
build on, and the house-builders are | 0:59:08 | 0:59:14 | |
building houses and people are
buying those houses, we have seen | 0:59:14 | 0:59:17 | |
massive investment going into my own
area, in the Whitby area... Ian | 0:59:17 | 0:59:23 | |
Avery, this is just great --
realistic. -- knavery. -- Ian | 0:59:23 | 0:59:36 | |
Lavery, isn't it? House prices are
much higher in the South... The | 0:59:36 | 0:59:43 | |
consequences of this new criteria
will mean less homes in the north | 0:59:43 | 0:59:47 | |
again. Total inequality between the
north and the South, and why this | 0:59:47 | 0:59:52 | |
new criteria of affordability is
being introduced is beyond me. What | 0:59:52 | 0:59:55 | |
the consequences mean that there
will be less house-building in areas | 0:59:55 | 1:00:01 | |
like mine where new houses are
much-needed... But there is no point | 1:00:01 | 1:00:07 | |
in unrealistic targets in areas that
are losing population. We need | 1:00:07 | 1:00:12 | |
proportionate investment in the
north-east the same as we get in | 1:00:12 | 1:00:16 | |
other -- any other place in the
south-east for example, we talk | 1:00:16 | 1:00:20 | |
about Universal Credit, investment
in the regions... The sad and the | 1:00:20 | 1:00:29 | |
worst... Another bizarre aspect is
that Sajid Javid criticises the | 1:00:29 | 1:00:35 | |
council for not having a plan,
Conservatives wanted to cut the | 1:00:35 | 1:00:40 | |
house-building targets so --. We had
a change of control in | 1:00:40 | 1:00:47 | |
Northumberland County Council.
According to Sajid Javid, you got it | 1:00:47 | 1:00:50 | |
all wrong. Certainly Scarborough
Borough Council were one of the | 1:00:50 | 1:00:54 | |
first to come up with a plan. We've
seen housing being built in numbers, | 1:00:54 | 1:00:58 | |
large and people moving in. It took
nine years to come forward with a | 1:00:58 | 1:01:05 | |
core strategy. It was introduced in
February of this year, and within | 1:01:05 | 1:01:11 | |
days of the Conservatives taking
control of Northumbria County | 1:01:11 | 1:01:15 | |
Council, they withdrew the core
strategy against legal opinion, and | 1:01:15 | 1:01:20 | |
they have been severely admonished
by their own sector... What is going | 1:01:20 | 1:01:24 | |
on?! Much more on what this means
for Cumbria and the north-east in | 1:01:24 | 1:01:28 | |
next week's show. Follow me on | 1:01:28 | 1:01:31 | |
Philip Hammond will deliver his
Budget on Wednesday - | 1:01:39 | 1:01:41 | |
he's moved it to the Autumn
if you remember - and he'll be | 1:01:41 | 1:01:44 | |
hoping it can help re-define
the Government in the eyes | 1:01:44 | 1:01:47 | |
of the public. | 1:01:47 | 1:01:48 | |
But when it comes to
the economy, do people trust | 1:01:48 | 1:01:52 | |
the Conservatives, or Labour? | 1:01:52 | 1:01:53 | |
Here's Ellie Price
with the moodbox. | 1:01:53 | 1:01:57 | |
MUSIC: The Road to Nowhere
by Talking Heads. | 1:01:57 | 1:02:05 | |
All eyes will be on the Chancellor
this week as we find out | 1:02:05 | 1:02:08 | |
what he has been cooking
up in his Budget. | 1:02:08 | 1:02:11 | |
So we have pulled off the A1
near Peterborough to ask people here | 1:02:11 | 1:02:14 | |
who they trust with the economy -
is it the Chancellor, | 1:02:14 | 1:02:17 | |
Philip Hammond, or is it
Labour's John McDonnell? | 1:02:17 | 1:02:23 | |
No 7. | 1:02:23 | 1:02:27 | |
Which one's Tory? | 1:02:27 | 1:02:32 | |
I voted Conservative
for the last two | 1:02:38 | 1:02:40 | |
elections, don't feel very confident
now, so I'm going to swap. | 1:02:40 | 1:02:44 | |
If I said to you which
of these characters | 1:02:44 | 1:02:47 | |
would you trust with the economy,
what would you say? | 1:02:47 | 1:02:49 | |
The one who's currently
running it, because they | 1:02:49 | 1:02:51 | |
seem to be bringing
the deficit down. | 1:02:51 | 1:02:52 | |
Labour. | 1:02:52 | 1:02:53 | |
Why? | 1:02:53 | 1:02:55 | |
Because I'm an NHS worker. | 1:02:55 | 1:02:57 | |
For me, it's just about
spending, public spending. | 1:02:57 | 1:03:00 | |
Labour always overspend. | 1:03:00 | 1:03:05 | |
John McDonnell, I think
capitalism as we know it is tanked | 1:03:05 | 1:03:11 | |
and I think we need
a radical re-think. | 1:03:11 | 1:03:16 | |
Broken his egg, who do you trust
more on the economy? | 1:03:16 | 1:03:19 | |
No one. | 1:03:19 | 1:03:20 | |
Why? | 1:03:20 | 1:03:22 | |
Because they never come up trumps
with anything that they | 1:03:22 | 1:03:28 | |
reckon they're going to do. | 1:03:28 | 1:03:29 | |
If I had to make you
choose one of them? | 1:03:29 | 1:03:31 | |
The man that's there, Hammond. | 1:03:31 | 1:03:33 | |
I wouldn't trust
Philip Hammond with a | 1:03:33 | 1:03:35 | |
bag of marbles or a plastic ball! | 1:03:35 | 1:03:41 | |
Hello, Bob. | 1:03:41 | 1:03:42 | |
Oh, hello. | 1:03:42 | 1:03:43 | |
Who do you trust
more on the economy? | 1:03:43 | 1:03:44 | |
Oh, the Conservatives. | 1:03:44 | 1:03:46 | |
Do you?
Why's that? | 1:03:46 | 1:03:47 | |
I just think they're better
for the small businessman. | 1:03:47 | 1:03:50 | |
We need a Maggie or
a Winston Churchill, | 1:03:50 | 1:03:52 | |
somebody in there with
balls to say, right, | 1:03:52 | 1:03:55 | |
that's the direction
we are | 1:03:55 | 1:03:56 | |
going in, that's what
we are going to do. | 1:03:56 | 1:03:58 | |
I've got balls! | 1:03:58 | 1:04:01 | |
What are you doing? | 1:04:01 | 1:04:02 | |
Putting balls in holes
by the look of it! | 1:04:02 | 1:04:09 | |
I suppose the lesser of the two
evils is anything but Tory, | 1:04:09 | 1:04:12 | |
but I say that without a great
deal of conviction. | 1:04:12 | 1:04:14 | |
Having grown up in the '70s
with all the rubbish on the | 1:04:14 | 1:04:17 | |
streets, the strikes, the unions. | 1:04:17 | 1:04:19 | |
Re-nationalisation and they're
going to spend a lot of money | 1:04:19 | 1:04:22 | |
and increase taxes and it will pull
the country down. | 1:04:22 | 1:04:28 | |
I've seen an awful loft of all-day
breakfasts today, but it | 1:04:28 | 1:04:31 | |
is clearing up time here
at the diner and time | 1:04:31 | 1:04:35 | |
to reveal the Moodbox. | 1:04:35 | 1:04:37 | |
Take it away, Tim. | 1:04:37 | 1:04:39 | |
As you can say it was
a close-run thing, but | 1:04:39 | 1:04:41 | |
like any fiscally responsible
Chancellor, I've done my maths and | 1:04:41 | 1:04:44 | |
counted and Philip Hammond got six
more votes than John McDonnell. | 1:04:44 | 1:04:51 | |
Oh, chip, thank you very much! | 1:04:51 | 1:04:54 | |
That was Ellie and the entirely
unscientific Moodbox, | 1:04:54 | 1:04:56 | |
at the Stibbington diner near
Peterborough. | 1:04:56 | 1:04:59 | |
But for a slightly more scientific
understanding of how the public view | 1:04:59 | 1:05:02 | |
the parties on this and other
issues, let's have a look | 1:05:02 | 1:05:04 | |
at some recent polling. | 1:05:04 | 1:05:06 | |
Here's where the Conservatives
and Labour stood on the economy back | 1:05:06 | 1:05:09 | |
when the Prime Minister called
the snap election in April, | 1:05:09 | 1:05:12 | |
when the Conservatives had a big
lead, as they did in many | 1:05:12 | 1:05:15 | |
other areas. | 1:05:15 | 1:05:17 | |
The most recent poll by the same
company reckoned Labour had narrowed | 1:05:17 | 1:05:20 | |
the gap significantly,
as they have in other areas, | 1:05:20 | 1:05:22 | |
although they're still 10 points
behind the Tories on this issue. | 1:05:22 | 1:05:27 | |
And there was another survey much
discussed at Westminster this week, | 1:05:27 | 1:05:31 | |
showing that while the gap
between Theresa May | 1:05:31 | 1:05:36 | |
and Jeremy Corbyn has narrowed
drastically since that pre-election | 1:05:36 | 1:05:39 | |
period, Mrs May is,
despite her many problems, | 1:05:39 | 1:05:40 | |
still pretty much level-pegging
in polling terms or | 1:05:40 | 1:05:42 | |
even slightly ahead. | 1:05:42 | 1:05:44 | |
And when it comes to how
people intend to vote | 1:05:44 | 1:05:46 | |
while the Tories are behind,
there's no sign of a | 1:05:46 | 1:05:48 | |
big Labour lead yet. | 1:05:48 | 1:05:50 | |
Tony Blair thinks that,
given the current "mess" | 1:05:50 | 1:05:52 | |
inside the Government,
Jeremy Corbyn's party should be | 1:05:52 | 1:05:56 | |
10 or 15 points ahead. | 1:05:56 | 1:05:59 | |
Well, many in Labour will find it
easy to dismiss both Tony Blair | 1:05:59 | 1:06:03 | |
and the opinion polls, as they both
called the last election entirely | 1:06:03 | 1:06:05 | |
wrong, so what if anything do
these polls tell us? | 1:06:05 | 1:06:12 | |
Let's turn to our expert panel.
Labour are now eight points on the | 1:06:12 | 1:06:20 | |
economy, according to a poll. Why is
there a gap between Labour and the | 1:06:20 | 1:06:25 | |
Tories? There seems to be a
deep-seated reservation in the minds | 1:06:25 | 1:06:31 | |
of many voters. They look at Jeremy
Corbyn and John McDonnell and | 1:06:31 | 1:06:34 | |
imagine them in charge of the
country, the finances, national | 1:06:34 | 1:06:40 | |
security, and think... It is
unfashionable to point out in many | 1:06:40 | 1:06:43 | |
circles that Labour did not win the
last election, and it didn't win it | 1:06:43 | 1:06:48 | |
for that kind of reason. Jeremy
Corbyn is very good at attracting | 1:06:48 | 1:06:54 | |
and inspiring young people and
people who had not voted before. We | 1:06:54 | 1:07:00 | |
underestimated his capacity to do
that. But he wasn't great at turning | 1:07:00 | 1:07:06 | |
Tories to Labour, or sealing off
those final reservations. The | 1:07:06 | 1:07:11 | |
government have had a shambolic few
weeks. We are tripping over | 1:07:11 | 1:07:15 | |
resigning a cabinet ministers. They
are fighting like ferrets. A lot of | 1:07:15 | 1:07:19 | |
people are having a really tough
time and looking at the government | 1:07:19 | 1:07:22 | |
to help them, and are unimpressed
with what they see. But there seems | 1:07:22 | 1:07:27 | |
to be a final fence that Corbyn does
not seem to be able to get over. | 1:07:27 | 1:07:34 | |
Isn't Tony Blair right, that Labour
should be 15 or 20 points ahead? I | 1:07:34 | 1:07:39 | |
think he's completely wrong, and is
revealing he is out of date. I think | 1:07:39 | 1:07:44 | |
Labour are in a really good
position. If you look at what they | 1:07:44 | 1:07:47 | |
have achieved in the last year,
going into Christmas 2016, Corbyn | 1:07:47 | 1:07:53 | |
had just managed to avoid, had to
re-fight Labour leadership contest. | 1:07:53 | 1:07:59 | |
They were 20 points behind. Theresa
May was at the top of her game. | 1:07:59 | 1:08:06 | |
Through the general election and
beyond it, they have continued to | 1:08:06 | 1:08:11 | |
build their movement. They are very
effective on social media. I think | 1:08:11 | 1:08:15 | |
they are in a strong position, and
they need about 60 seats to win the | 1:08:15 | 1:08:21 | |
next general election. They will
probably start with 25 of those. The | 1:08:21 | 1:08:26 | |
fact that they are closing the gap
on the economy suggests that a lot | 1:08:26 | 1:08:30 | |
of voters are now giving them a
chance or a hearing, which they | 1:08:30 | 1:08:34 | |
certainly were not getting a year
ago. I think they have done very | 1:08:34 | 1:08:38 | |
well. Can they be confident with a
slim lead against the government? I | 1:08:38 | 1:08:44 | |
am slightly more with Tony Blair
than with Iain. This goes back to | 1:08:44 | 1:08:49 | |
that very general election result. A
huge turnout for Labour for Jeremy | 1:08:49 | 1:08:56 | |
Corbyn. If you asked that same 40%
of people today, do you want Jeremy | 1:08:56 | 1:09:04 | |
Corbyn to be Prime Minister? Where
you really voting for Jeremy Corbyn | 1:09:04 | 1:09:07 | |
to lead the British governmentanswer
is no, because Theresa May still, | 1:09:07 | 1:09:13 | |
despite the fact she is presiding
over a shambolic cabinet, she has | 1:09:13 | 1:09:17 | |
the most support for Prime Minister.
The last general election may have | 1:09:17 | 1:09:24 | |
just been a giant by-election,
because everyone was so short that | 1:09:24 | 1:09:30 | |
Theresa May would get in. The
Chancellor Philip Hammond gave | 1:09:30 | 1:09:34 | |
Labour a bit of a gift, when he
said, there were not any unemployed | 1:09:34 | 1:09:41 | |
people in Britain. A slip of the
tongue. Was that damaging? You have | 1:09:41 | 1:09:47 | |
to look at the context he was saying
it in, which will not be the context | 1:09:47 | 1:09:52 | |
of the Facebook meme you will get
shortly. He was asked about future | 1:09:52 | 1:09:59 | |
unemployment, and he was saying that
when technological advances came, | 1:09:59 | 1:10:10 | |
unemployment didn't materialise.
They would not be able to use that | 1:10:10 | 1:10:15 | |
against him so easily if it didn't
have something that people think | 1:10:15 | 1:10:20 | |
about the Conservative government,
which is that they are out of touch, | 1:10:20 | 1:10:24 | |
they have no idea about some people,
that they refuse to see what they | 1:10:24 | 1:10:27 | |
have done. People have that idea
about the Conservatives, so to drop | 1:10:27 | 1:10:32 | |
a bit of a clanger in that regard...
The budget is on Wednesday, and also | 1:10:32 | 1:10:39 | |
this week, the Brexit committee will
be meeting. What will they be | 1:10:39 | 1:10:43 | |
talking about and why does it
matter? What Stephen Hammond said to | 1:10:43 | 1:10:48 | |
you a few moments ago was
fascinating. Tomorrow is going to be | 1:10:48 | 1:10:51 | |
the big meeting. It is the
negotiations committee. Nine or so | 1:10:51 | 1:10:57 | |
ministers have recently been
included in that, like Michael Gove. | 1:10:57 | 1:11:01 | |
They are going to be talking about
the money, precisely how much they | 1:11:01 | 1:11:05 | |
offer in two weeks' time to meet
this deadline in the December | 1:11:05 | 1:11:10 | |
council for phase two. Michael Gove
and Boris Johnson want to add in | 1:11:10 | 1:11:14 | |
conditions. They want to say, we
will give you this as long as we get | 1:11:14 | 1:11:19 | |
that. What was fascinating with
Stephen Hammond just now was that he | 1:11:19 | 1:11:24 | |
revealed that it wasn't just the
Brexiteers in Cabinet who want a | 1:11:24 | 1:11:27 | |
more precise definition of what we
are going for, it is the remainers | 1:11:27 | 1:11:37 | |
as well. In the heart of the
government, David Davis is trying to | 1:11:37 | 1:11:42 | |
keep the bill as low as possible,
possibly around 30%. The divorce | 1:11:42 | 1:11:50 | |
Bill and future liabilities. Some in
the civil service have suggested | 1:11:50 | 1:11:56 | |
that it has to be 40 or above. What
it reveals to me is really, it's | 1:11:56 | 1:12:03 | |
another function of Britain not
really having a proper Prime | 1:12:03 | 1:12:07 | |
Minister. In normal circumstances,
of course the Cabinet is divided. A | 1:12:07 | 1:12:12 | |
strong leader would say, right, this
is what is happening. This is where | 1:12:12 | 1:12:16 | |
we are going. We will call it 35 or
40 billion. We will save to the | 1:12:16 | 1:12:22 | |
European Union, there is the check,
but it will not have a signature on | 1:12:22 | 1:12:26 | |
it until we are satisfied with the
next | 1:12:26 | 1:12:39 | |
stage. The government is hampered by
the lack of a strong personality who | 1:12:45 | 1:12:48 | |
could do that, make a political play
with other European leaders that | 1:12:48 | 1:12:50 | |
might break the deadlock. Presumably
that is why the full Cabinet have | 1:12:50 | 1:12:53 | |
not discussed what the future Brexit
deal will be. That is the | 1:12:53 | 1:12:55 | |
astonishing thing. There has been no
sort of vision of what Britain is | 1:12:55 | 1:12:58 | |
going to look like after Brexit. We
have got down in what the | 1:12:58 | 1:13:02 | |
negotiation position for tomorrow
will be. What does it look like in | 1:13:02 | 1:13:06 | |
terms of immigration, trade with the
rest of the world, what life will | 1:13:06 | 1:13:09 | |
look like for ordinarily... Ordinary
people? There are visions for this, | 1:13:09 | 1:13:15 | |
but they will not agree on one. Is
there such a thing as a Tory Cabinet | 1:13:15 | 1:13:21 | |
Minister who could have one single
vision without them all ripping each | 1:13:21 | 1:13:24 | |
other's heads off? Probably not.
Thank you. | 1:13:24 | 1:13:29 | |
That's all for today. | 1:13:29 | 1:13:30 | |
Join me again next Sunday
at 11.00 here on BBC One. | 1:13:30 | 1:13:33 | |
Until then, bye bye. | 1:13:33 | 1:13:36 |