29/01/2012 Sunday Politics North West


29/01/2012

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And in the North West: Salford says yes to an elected

:01:22.:01:24.

mayor, but it looks like Liverpudlians will not get any say

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:01:34.:01:35.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2023 seconds

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in the matter at all. We bring you Welcome to the Sunday Politics in

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the North West. In the next 20 minutes:

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Salford says yes to an elected mayor, but it looks like voters in

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Liverpool will not even get asked. We talk to the city's leader.

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A big week in local politics here, then. Before we get to that, let's

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meet this week's MPs. Today, we welcome the Labour MP for

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Rochdale, Simon Danzcuk, and the Conservatives MP for Morecambe and

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Lunesdale, David Morris. David, I gather you have been flirting with

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a former career this week. Yes, I have written a song before the

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local community. It has been a reawakening of warm up former

:36:01.:36:08.

career at that I had. You used to write songs for Rick Astley. I did.

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25 years ago. I'm a politician now, there is that turn up for the

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book's! Any artistic ambitions yourself, Simon? Not really. I'm

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not good in terms of artistic endeavours. Just before the general

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election, I did at turn-on karaoke and I think that cost me about 50

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volts, so best avoided! Glee will speak you in a minute.

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It's time to ask how should our councils be run? On Thursday, there

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was a referendum in Salford where people voted to get a directly

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elected mayor. But in Liverpool, the council leader has decided

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there is no need for a referendum and plans to switch to a mayor

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through a special council meeting. I have been to both cities to

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consider the contrast. Campaigners triggered a referendum

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in Salford. But there was no rush to the polls. Turnout was just 18%.

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The number of votes cast in favour of guests was 17,000.

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That was 56% of voters opted for a mayor. You are backtracking.

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least it stirred up passions on the council. The existing system of a

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council leader elected by fellow councillors rather than voters will

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soon end. I am a democrat and I made it clear up my preference for

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the other system. But, in May, I will be making it clear that my

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intention, if I was lucky enough to be the candidate, would be to make

:37:50.:38:00.
:38:00.:38:02.

the system work. Campaigners are hoping for more radical change.

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Hopefully this will be a beacon to other cities that if you commit and

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vote, you can make the change in inner-city is run. Here, the Labour

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Party is planning to hold a vote in council. Opponents say that is not

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right. You have to give people a chance to care. The Government has

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suggested we have this referendum. It is the right people to say he

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they are governed. And we found quite a few people who do want a

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say. It is their city, so they should have the right to choose.

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They it has not been picked to was, but I believe we should have the

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vote. Joe Landers and should know better because he has always been

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for Liverpool and all this and he has been decision that seems to be

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just for himself. But Joe Anderson has also seized the political

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initiative. Joining me now from Liverpool is

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the Labour leader of the city council, Joe Anderson. You heard in

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that report that there are certainly a number of people of

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Liverpool who would like icy on this. Yes, well, this is not about

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to Jo Anderson, this the but the opportunity for Liverpool. -- this

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is about the opportunity for Liverpool. I simply said to

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government, what difference does the city media make in terms of a

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or Conservative government players back point of view. -- Conservative

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Government's point of view. This is a very big decision for the council

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and am wondering why you're going making it rather than allowing the

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city to decide as they have in Salford. It is a big decision for

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the whole of the city. We have no associated a fund for the city, we

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have Nicola seated significant powers. I would go out and campaign

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in a referendum if we had one, asking for people to vote for that

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and I guess that they would support it. Rather than waste money, which

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does get on with this now. What does accept the money, the powers,

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-- let us accept the money, the powers. It makes a significant

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difference. Oh why did you change your mind on this issue? I am

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looking back at Adam previous interview that you gave. This is a

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quote. You said it is something I have never aspired to be. The

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powers held by the leader of the Council are significantly greater

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than what used to be. It in the powers that I hold a quite

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significant and are enough. Why did you change your mind?

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circumstances have changed. We have been negotiating with government

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for last four months. I asked them what the difference was. I was

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right to make that statement at that time, because there was no

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difference. Now, there are �134 million difference. Other powers

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not enough? I he can the poor has been a fit we have negotiated

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enough power as -- new powers? how can the powers be enough that

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we have had to negotiate new powers? Of course, things had

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changed. They are not the same and that is why we have negotiated with

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government. Is there actually a deal in place, because we see this

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letter that has been leaked from the Nick Clegg, saying it is

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important to clarify that no deal, including Liverpool's proposal is

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contingent on having an elected mayor. You could have these powers

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if you were going for a mayor or not. Nick Clegg also told us they

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would be no increase in tuition fees. If he gives us an assurance,

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but we can have this money, plus the money that we have Nicolas

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:42:27.:42:33.

Smith, we will say OK. The fact is, Nick Clegg cannot do this. But you

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:42:43.:42:43.

for talking to us. This is Conservative policy. The want to

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see more of these measures? Personally, I do not have an

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opinion one way or another in terms of a referendum. As long as we have

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more democracy and more public say in her local services are run

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although we have to Westminster. is a curious situation, from

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Labour's point of view. What Labour government had previously and the

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view is now is that are directly elected mayors are the right thing.

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Why are the right in Liverpool and not Salford? I think Joe Anderson

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is doing a good job. What did not mention is that all the

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consultation done in years gone by clearly showed that they were in

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favour of a directly at elected mayor for Liverpool. It was not a

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referendum, but it showed that there was an appetite. Compare that

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to Manchester, a previous consultation showed that there was

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no appetite for a directly elected mayor.

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Now, how important is your schooling on your future life

:44:02.:44:10.

chances? It is sometimes thought that an education at an independent

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school, where parents pay fees, can open doors which would otherwise

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remain closed. But is it fair that very bright, but less well off

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pupils do not get the same chance? In the past, governments have run

:44:20.:44:22.

assisted places schemes, giving grants to those pupils. They were

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last abolished in 1997. But now one charity wants to bring them back.

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Naomi Cornwell reports. It's one of the most famous schools

:44:30.:44:36.

in the country. Entry to Manchester Grammar is fiercely competitive.

:44:36.:44:46.
:44:46.:44:48.

It's one of the most famous schools in the country. But for years it

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has been proud of its efforts to take in pupils from every

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background. We have had a long-term commitment to educating pooper

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:45:04.:45:04.

children. -- poorer. From 1945, it was one of around 200 grammar

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schools that received a direct grant from the Government which

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guaranteed that a quarter of their places were given free to talented

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scholarship children. The scheme was cut when Labour returned to

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power in the 1970s, but a few years later Margaret Thatcher

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reintroduced a similar scheme, only to be abolished again by Labour in

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1997. Fast forward 15 years, and there are new calls for the

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Government to fund places at independent schools for bright

:45:23.:45:26.

children from poorer families. With free places for those whose parents

:45:26.:45:29.

are below a certain income, then fees increasing according to a

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family's means. When you look at our universities and or professions,

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students from other independent schools tend to dominate. We want

:45:40.:45:45.

those positions, some of them to go to people from less privileged

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backgrounds. The Sutton Trust would like the Government to meet half

:45:49.:45:52.

the cost of the scheme while the schools or charitable foundations

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pay for the rest. And this school wants to be part of it. Our problem

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is that for every boy that we accept, and get a bursary to, there

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is another boy who is perfectly capable of walking in the way that

:46:05.:46:10.

we need our boys to work, for them to flourish, but we have to turn

:46:10.:46:17.

away. These are children from poorer families who want to be here,

:46:17.:46:27.
:46:27.:46:30.

who are capable of keen year, but cannot afford it. It is an idea the

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Sutton Trust has already trialed at this school in Liverpool. Between

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2000 and 2007 entry to Belvedere School was based on merit alone.

:46:38.:46:40.

Previously, few pupils had come from surrounding Toxteth, a

:46:40.:46:43.

relatively disadvantaged area. But under the scheme, the social mix

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became more diverse, with 30% of pupils on free places, 40% paying

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partial fees and only 30% paying full fees. A former head girl

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remembers the benefits of having friends from different backgrounds.

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Looking back, you can see that we had a variety of people from lots

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of different backgrounds and I think that added to the school and

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was a positive thing. It meant that French it for form that might not

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have otherwise. It has now changed from an independent school to an

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academy. But a study by the University of Buckingham found that

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the scheme had been generally successful, with the first group of

:47:16.:47:19.

girls to reach GCSE age gaining the highest results ever seen at the

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school. But one major teaching union is against the idea and

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thinks the money could be better spent in the state system. For a

:47:25.:47:28.

start, it is interesting this has been put forward at the time of

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recession when a lot of people are taking their children out of

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private schools because they cannot afford them. It seems a little bit

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of a coincidence that this has, but at this time. The reality is that

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this is money that is being taken away from comprehensive schools

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that are presently using it and is yet another step in the at up --

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direction of dismantling the state education system. The Sutton Trust

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has received cross party support for its research into how to widen

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social mobility. But the Government's only official line on

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the proposals is that it values all contributions to the education

:48:03.:48:05.

debate. So, can this kind of scheme assist

:48:05.:48:09.

social mobility? Well, joining me now is someone who certainly thinks

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so. John Denny is the chief executive of Cosmopolitan Housing

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Association. They have estates in Cheshire and Liverpool and they are

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offering to pay for one boy from one of those estates to go to Eton.

:48:20.:48:27.

So why are you doing this? I've been the direct answer to that is,

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why not? If you look at some of the estates that my organisation and

:48:31.:48:35.

others walking, no matter where you come from on the education debate,

:48:36.:48:41.

there is a genuine lack of aspiration and I wonder where that

:48:41.:48:51.
:48:51.:48:52.

lack creeps in sometimes. He -- where that -- where it that lack

:48:52.:48:58.

creeps in sometimes. Aspiration is a good thing, but it seems extreme

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that they have to go all the way to Eton. Like most things, if you look

:49:04.:49:10.

at the total package, the work that the group does, we had schemes on a

:49:10.:49:13.

drug rehabilitation on Criminal defenders, we create more

:49:13.:49:17.

apprentices in Merseyside and Cheshire than most other

:49:17.:49:25.

organisations put together, but equally, on our estate, there are

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children at that with the support and help can achieve great things

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and I do not been there should be taken away by anyone. My job as a

:49:33.:49:39.

chief executive is to weave my way through some of these politics, but

:49:39.:49:44.

introduce the seeds of aspiration in a positive way. Has there been

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much interest in its offer? They are has been an awful lot, at some

:49:48.:49:52.

of that good, some of the bat. If you sit in of the grip of resident

:49:52.:50:00.

in Merseyside or Cheshire. -- if you sit with a group of resident in

:50:00.:50:05.

Merseyside and Cheshire, the initially react saying that it is

:50:05.:50:10.

not for the likes of them. I think it is for the likes of them.

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Ultimately, most people turn around and say, yes, this is about having

:50:17.:50:27.
:50:27.:50:28.

faith in that the children on their estates. What do you think? I think

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it is good. It sounds a bit like a gimmick, to pet project. I do not

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have a problem with it. What are we to see is the Government putting

:50:40.:50:43.

money into state education so that more children have a better chance

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of getting on in terms of aspirations and a meeting their

:50:48.:50:52.

desired aspirations and getting on in life. That is not happening at

:50:52.:51:02.
:51:02.:51:05.

the moment. David Morris? I think it is marvellous what is going on.

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I think the assisted places scheme should never have been scrapped and

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the first place and I hope the government look at the way of

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bringing some kind of a scheme back. The thing that would be better?

:51:19.:51:23.

Ultimately, what you're saying is that local schools are not good

:51:23.:51:29.

enough. I am not saying that. I think the system lets kids down. If

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you are born on one other estates, the chances of you succeeding are

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considerably less than someone being born at two or three miles

:51:37.:51:40.

away. That link between affluence and education has never been broken

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and will not be broken. It we all worked towards the perfect model

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that takes place in Sweden, with equitable access to all forms of

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education, I would love to get to that. The reality of that taking

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place and where we're waiting for that to happen, from my perspective,

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this could that are not realising their potential, but is a -- it is

:52:03.:52:11.

too high a price to pay. It should be about creating a more equal

:52:11.:52:18.

society. We were moving towards that with the Labour government.

:52:18.:52:22.

But social mobility went down in the Labour government. In terms of

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getting people free school meals, the gap narrowed. In terms of

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aspirations, this is about people having the opportunity to get on.

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One of the big problems is that the government are not focusing on

:52:40.:52:44.

employment. We have mass unemployment yet again. That would

:52:44.:52:52.

put more children on to free school meals. I think diversity in

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education, the Government is addressing that. A school in my

:52:57.:53:02.

constituency closed down and I had a direct input in getting it

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reopened again. It was dormant, closed, and sealed. It is now

:53:07.:53:17.
:53:17.:53:18.

reopened. That is proof and the pudding and -- that is the proof in

:53:18.:53:23.

the pudding. Now it's time for our 60 second

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roundup of the week's events, with Gill Dummigan.

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It has been revealed that Liverpool's world famous waterfront

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could be in danger of losing its world heritage status because of a

:53:34.:53:37.

�5.5 billion planning application. UNESCO has urged the council and

:53:37.:53:46.

developers to go back to the drawing board.

:53:46.:53:48.

Backers for a military-style school run by former soldiers in Oldham

:53:48.:53:51.

say they have found potential premises. The Phoenix, as it would

:53:51.:53:54.

be called, could open as one of the Government's new free schools.

:53:54.:53:57.

Salford City Council is calling for payday lenders to be banned, or

:53:57.:54:00.

have their interest rates capped. They say people often do not

:54:00.:54:06.

realise what they are signing up to. A buyer really believe that someone

:54:06.:54:11.

will commit suicide as a result of borrowing this type of money.

:54:11.:54:17.

believe. Back in Liverpool again and city

:54:17.:54:19.

council leaders want a club that hosted the British National Party's

:54:19.:54:22.

annual conference to have its licence revoked. There were

:54:22.:54:24.

protests outside the Cricketers Arms in Wavertree last October. The

:54:24.:54:34.
:54:34.:54:41.

club's owners say they have done nothing wrong.

:54:41.:54:46.

You are taking on that pay-day lenders. I think they are a Neville

:54:46.:54:56.
:54:56.:54:57.

Lawrence. -- and abhorrence. It in pursuit -- I think we should

:54:57.:55:02.

legislate against them. I agree with the David about that. The good

:55:02.:55:06.

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