04/03/2012 Sunday Politics North West

The fan from the North West of England to the United States of

America. We travel over the pond to find out more about elected police

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1775 seconds

Hello. I am Annabelle Turton. In the next 20 minutes.

From the North West of England to the United States of America. We

travel across the pond to find out more about elected police

commissioners. Let me introduce you to work to my

guests of the day. Jake Berry the Conservatives have MP. And Yasmin

Qureshi the Bolton MP. He issue of the week of the moment

for you is what? For me Pehrson like, we knew it apprentices into

work. -- for me personally. I want to say to people we can do

something as MPs, go out there and run a campaign and get people back

into jobs. There has been some criticism in the past that these

apprenticeships are not going to the right people. They're going to

people alder, 25 years plus. He may have been in the past. The way the

new Government has set the funding up, all the funding is aimed at

those between the ages of 16 and 24. Not already in employment or

training. It has encouraged people to get our young people a chance to

get does life skills. I have met people and end a few people who are

now saying, I am 65. I started as an apprenticeship -- as an

apprentice. Yasmin, what about you? A reorganisation of the NHS is a

big concern. And funding for the Fire Services in the metropolitan

areas. If with the firefighters, do they get their money through the

council tax, is as a separate settlement for them? He this is a

separate settlement. This is over three years. They are not happy

with their way the settlement is going to be carried out and the

cuts they will have to make. It is an important area and I want to

debated by to it. I will get a debate about to get on Wednesday

morning next week. We're going to move on to our top story tonight.

It is about council tax. Wirral Borough Council approved

plans to cut council tax by 3%. The Conservative led Cabinet had its

budget has the support from the Lib Dems. Chorley this may also

announced a reduction of 1% of am not -- while promising to increase

spending. However, some councils are raising their council tax. This

week on Radio 4, the local Government Minister Grant Shapps

lamb BASSA local authorities are rejecting the Government's offer of

a one-off grant to freeze council tax. He said they were setting

themselves up for failure. It is a folly and a mistake. It is avoiding

raising the council tax by more than 3.5% at the point to which a

referendum which -- would have been triggered. He says there has to be

our public referendum in council tax want to raise council tax above

3.5%. Do you think your boss was being hard there Collingham

democratic dodgers? People would say they lose something cynical

about local authorities raising it just enough to avoid having a

referendum. If there is that argument, take it out to the

parlour -- to the public. He should not be afraid of the electorate. We

have already spoken about Wirral and Chorley you have gone out and

said we could cut council tax and still maintain your services. SIM

isn't a place where council-tax was going up I would ask, how can

Chorley and will do it? The figures did not add up. The one of

Government grant being offered did not make up financially and they

needed to raise council tax. This Government has prioritised freezing

council tax. We are in difficult economic times. I am disappointed

that Preston felt they couldn't take this money. My own view is

take the money that is available now, used that to freeze council

tax and extra have another conversation about why you should

be going with your budgets. Yasmin Qureshi, what are your views on

this? We had a fine 60 million savings. You would except that it

got out of control with Labour? think what people forget is

different parts of the country have different economic situations. You

cannot compare Wigan with Chorley or Charlie with Preston. Bolton...

Bolton is managing to freezer. is different to other parts of the

country. Bolton has been more successful and more process --

prosperous than other parts of the country. There are so many people

who are socially and economically to provide. He cannot treat them

all the same. It would be disappointing to here if you lived

in Wigan or in Preston to think you're council was turning

Government money away. It is available now, I say ticket. Give

everyone who is there who was for you in the elections, the

opportunity to have a one-year tax break. -- council tax break. Her it

is said to be the biggest single reform to a police service and a

generation - the introduction of elected police commissioners. Those

voted into power in November will control budgets, set policing

priorities and have the power to fire chief constables have they

failed to perform. The idea Commissioners is something of an

alien concept in the UK. Peter Marshall has been to America to

find out more about the philosophy behind it.

Everyone would want crime rates to head south, but should we be

looking West for inspiration? This is Springfield, Massachusetts. It

is the birthplace of all basketball and Dr Suess of Cat In The Hat fame.

It is a beautiful city in parts, but it has an ugly problem.

There were 19 mergers here last year - drugs and guns have a

problem. William J Fitchet is a city's police commissioner. There

is no set model in the US - commissioners can be civilian

administrators are like William J Fitchet long-time police officers.

They can be elected or appointed. Today he is launching his new

initiative, Operation Badge, he has met and listen to residents sunset

policing priorities to tackle or issues. There is no question that

of the public is not on board with your mission and you with your

objectives than those objectors are much more difficult to obtain. So

when all things, communication is so vital. So these patrol men no

longer spend their day reacting to 9/11 cols. They have been freed up

to go proactive - to look for trouble and tackle it.

commissioner's sole function is to relate to the community. He has

enabled us to utilise any resources renewed. Away get more free time to

catch bad guys and that is what we do. The commissioner can also drive

through change. Take for example, a shot spotters system which was his

baby. What you're about to say happens in real time. When a gun is

fired in Springfield... Thanks to our network of

microphones covering three square miles of the city centre and

computers and every patrol car, this is how long it takes for every

policeman on the streets to know there has been a shooting. And

exactly what happened. We are on the scene within minutes.

So this a Maridjan police commissioner his hands on - a mix

of high ranking chief and police authority. But he controls an area

not much bigger than Blackpool. -- so this American police

commissioner. Our system will be different,

commissioners or represent larger constabulary areas. They will all

be civilian administrators - remove from day today policing. But the

poll is -- the philosophy appears similar - listen to communities -

give them a voice and set priorities accordingly. I remind

police chief constables the first duty is to the community they serve.

This will put the public and the driving seat for the first time to

ensure that their priorities and fighting crime are reflected. A so

all our police and authorities will go - replaced by a single

commissioner elected every four years. As well as answering to us,

the commissioner will be scrutinised by a police and crime

panelled - mainly local councillors. Elections take place on November

15th. Umesh -- commissioners could come from any background. Lord

Prescott says he will stand. Falklands veteran Simon Weston is

interested that, as is former Crimewatch presenter Nick Ross.

Locally, former Merseyside MPs Jane Kennedy and Peter Kilfoyle want to

stand, as does Manchester Central MP Tony Lloyd. But critics here say

it is a waste of money that would better be spent on more frontline

officers. Elected commissioners say they will be guilty of short-term

populism, with election, not effective pulsing their priority.

I am joined by two guests. A why are you so in favour? I think

this is the biggest shake-up for the police service within a

generation. For too long I think the public haven't had a loud

enough voice with regard to their policing. Policing involves us all,

we are all interested in how the police perform. And I think this is

a tremendous flagship policy by the coalition Government to give the

public of Lancashire and the wider country a real voice. If you look

at the present system, the police are authorities - they are in

invisible bunch of people. Let me bring in councillor Kemp. I think

this is a crackpot idea. I have said it before. I did it on behalf

of the Local Government Association. Why? We will have elections. We

will be talking about policemen on the beat. The Police Commission

does not have much power or responsibility. But he doesn't have

much responsibility - what is wrong with that? The least will have

aspirations that the job is worth something and do something. -- that

people will have aspirations. There are hundreds of police plans on

Merseyside. I attend A1 for my reward. So one man cannot know what

the needs are for so many people. will pick up on that - Lancashire's

police commissioners said he had concerns. His it is not about one

person. It is not one person who is going to decide on this. The

commissioner will build a team around him. It is like saying the

police constable it is one person. He has an executive team around him.

Let's go back to the central point, you talk about the police and

authorities. Let's look to what our Lancashire Police Authority dead...

Has I am going to stop you there. But we need to broaden this out.

With unpleasing there is a huge democratic deficit. We police in

this country via consent. I found out this week that the Chief

Constable of Lancashire and his top team all have private healthcare at

over �12,000 a year. How many people in Lancashire or want that

is what I wore my police money spent on? But can one and eventual

change that? He can sell local priorities. We all prioritised her

girlie and speed cameras. So who will be manning the force? Their

Chief Constable will have day today running of the force. The

commissioner will set priorities. That is what people care about. If

my house is broken into, if well that they followed up or will there

be a policeman with a speed camera at the end of my road every day?

mentions about the club Chief Constable's private health

arrangements. That is in the terms of -- terms and conditions of

employment. I think that is irrelevant. The Labour Party now

supports private healthcare! We're talking about the role of elected

commissioners. It is �180 million being wasted when we are making

cuts in police services, it is a waste of money. Let me bring in

councillor Ken. People want to be involved in local police priorities.

No one has ever come into my office and said there is a problem in

Southport. They will meet to work with my community and work with the

police station and work with their people and other groups to solve

local problems. Adding a police commissioner will add nothing to

deal with that. You are missing a trick that if you did put up

candidates, you could control that policy. You could change that are

the better. Away are putting up candidates. We don't like these

positions. We do not like elected positions. You cannot pretend

they're not there. We will fight them on this local basis. I have

heard a lot of nonsense. You have not read the relevant act. This is

an ideal opportunity. There is a disconnect between the general

public and the police service. And as Jake has alluded to, the police

service cannot police without the full support of the public. And

this is an ideal opportunity to give the public of Lancashire a

voice. A voice that they do not have at the moment. Do you know how

many people, any names, of any relevant police as 30 members?

is irrelevant. No, it isn't. Always a 30s exists there. I have regular

meetings at my local police station. I speak to inspectors and I pass on

the concerns of my constituents. I think any police constable does not

know what the priorities and concerns are of the people in that

area are, then you are sadly lacking their judgement of their

capabilities. Just hold on one second. I openly admit I probably

cannot name one-person unlike police and authority in Lancashire.

They are like the invisible people. People do not know how to hold them

into account. They should be able to be held to account. People need

to know who their local councillors are, where to go far a problems

setting problem. They want to see the problems being dealt with

immediately. An elected police commissioner will not be able to do

that. And the structure will be weakened and take-away that

localism that most people rely on. This is a classic case of fear of

the unknown. At a time when reckoned cuts are being made, to

raise �180 million on another -- unnecessary Commissioners as a

complete waste of money. There were five referendums in the Labour

referendum. To oppose one, when you had five Enya referendum is one

that beggars belief. Someone else has also announced

their interest in the police commissioner role in Lancashire.

That is Ibrahim Master who wants to stand as a Labour candidate.

Let's have a look at this week's events of David Saville.

David Morris, the Mark -- MP for more common line -- and his ilk as

asked David Cameron for assurance that the management of the

arresting hospitals of Morecambe Bay Trust will be in for it. It has

been investigated of the deaths of seven babies and has been warned

that an accident and emergency unit could be closed unless standards

improve. It is being turned around at that were needs to be undertaken

with all speed. A hostel for young homeless mothers

and their babies and Manchester is closing after 30 years. Manchester

City Council is cutting funding to the charity which operates a must

have -- a hostel. They say it is because of Government cuts.

Charlie council says it will still be able to increase spending even

though it is reducing council tax by 1%. -- Chorley Council. They say

�1 million will be spent on community police officers, improve

the environment and creating jobs. And a hospital trusts in the North

West of agreed to publish a monthly update on the safety and quality of