21/10/2012 Sunday Politics North West

And in the North West: Two officers killed in the line of

duty, now the PCC candidates tell us what they will do to fight back

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2291 seconds

Hello and welcome. To Greater Manchester officers

killed on duty. The candidates for police commissioner it tell us how

they will combat crime. The work they have done is splendid but they

cannot do it on their own. It is bad but this takes place in our

city. The focus this week is on but Police and Crime Commissioner

elections. To be clear, we will be voting across the North West to let

one Commissioner for us. It will be Cheshire, Cumbria, Greater

Manchester, Lancashire, and Morsi side. There are 24 candidates. --

Merseyside. My guests are at this sheet

superintendent of Lancashire Police and Dr Stuart Wilks-Heeg an expert

from Liverpool University. How do you think he's police

commissioners will change the way that we experience policing?

think they will change it greatly. In order to be elected and stale

let it be have to be popular. It is bringing an X Factor culture to the

very serious business of policing which is a great concern. There is

a paradox in that these could be the most important elections we

will have this year but not many people are interested. It is the

first national elections we have had across England and Wales since

the general elections. For parties it is very important. But the

turnouts are expected to be low. Last month there was shock after do

killings of police Constable's Nicola Hughes and Fiona Bone it in

Manchester. They have tried to shake off their feeling that

Manchester has a history of violent crime in the police.

The deaths of two police officers. A stark reminder of Manchester has

gone problem. And challenge what the new police commissioner. -- a

challenge for the new police commissioner.

How do you tackle the problems with guns question mark -- with guns?

need to use the technology and internet and all the other types of

new technologies. I doubt here in Moss Side need residents demand an

end to the killing. A 12-year-old has lost an eye in an attack which

has shocked. In 1990 as newspapers called Manchester gone - Chester.

What more could be done? -- gun. The work they have done has been

that but they cannot do it on their own. You what to work with local

communities? Yes, to make the communities feel safe enough to

pass information on to the police. Guns are harder to come by and the

number of shootings has reduced dramatically. There were 16 last

year compared to 125 years ago. No fewer than 100 criminal gangs are

operating in the county. One candidate says that if you want to

get rid of the guns you have to break up the gangs. -- 120, five

years ago. We need to see the break-up of those crime gangs. This

is not the Mafia. We do not terrorise whole communities. But it

is bad. It is a bad reputation and it is bad it that it takes place in

our city. It is the job of the Police Commissioner to decide

priorities and be realistic about what can be achieved. There has

always been an element of gang crime in Manchester even from the

1960s. You always find that in a big city and it is a case really of

continuing to build up your intelligence, continuing to work

with the community and getting the community on your side. You will

never eliminate it? You will never eliminate it anywhere. Anti-social

behaviour and car crime, the new commissioner will man to -- will

face a lot of demands but and crime will be prominent.

Since that film was made a magistrate Roy Warren has already

thrown his head in to the ring -- hat into the ring as an independent

candidate. I would ask the community to report anybody that

they know that has a gun. All this sudden, it has escalated. We now

get on to the issue of whether it beat police should be carrying guns.

We are joined in the studio by a woman who has worked to improve

community relations with the police and Moss Side in Manchester. What

you hope to see from their police commissioner? I think I along with

many others it is hoping to see that they will go native. When we

have worked with them closely in the past and they have connections

to the grass roots, it is said that they have gone native. We're

looking for someone who is prepared to do that and to understand the

communities that they represent. Appear to understand how these

people left and we had a lead. a you like this idea? -- people

love and wear a lounge. Absolutely people can go they're directly and

expressed their needs and there are issues for their neighbourhoods.

Different neighbourhoods at different issues when it comes to

policing. You cannot paint as over with the same rash across the board.

Different communities have different issues and the need to

know who to go to it they have an issue. The idea of this is that it

is somebody that community groups can get in top two and have

response. Yes but the one Police Commissioner for an area the side

of Manchester, it is due. They will not have the time to have that

connection with the different groups. They cannot do that and

harp work done with their operational side of policing. I do

not think it has been well thought through. They will not deliver what

people expect. Listening to the candidates they talk about gangs.

Some of it sounded vague. Are you worried that police commissioners

might jumping to tactics to link police officers had to do their

jobs? Yes, they're going to. I have heard what some of them are saying.

Policing is very complex and sensitive and their jumping in and

the thinking that they know it all and it is looking like it could be

a problem. Is there at the potential for conflict between the

police commissioners, but politicians and that police

Constable's? Inevitably there is. It will happen in some cases but

perhaps not every where. We had an uneasy balance with power and

policing between at the Home Secretary, then Chief Constable and

police officers. This is really set up to be a struggle in some areas

between big personalities. What you make of the argument that the

police commissioner is going to have so many different communities

in such a wide area but they will not be able to do what you want and

to do? That could be an issue but what we have to look at... There

are a couple of things that were saying there -- that were being

said there about how people work in partnership across stay cold has

just sold certain issues. Community groups work and its independent

adviser groups work, the excess and do some fantastic work. Police

commissioners can feed into those groups as they feed into the police

commissioner. One person cannot do that job by themselves so they're

going to have to have sup commissioners or feelers out there

that they feed into. -- sub commissioners. But police

commissioner would been making up overall decision. It sounds like

you to design a better system for But if you want to find out more

about who is standing on -- in your area or you can go to our website.

area or you can go to our website. area or you can go to our website.

You can click on your area there. The new commissioners are not just

dealing with the police but they are also dealing were generally

with Clarine two. We will be speaking to an organisation the

help victims. -- with cream it too. We will be speaking to people to

see what they want. I see my dad standing at the bottom of the

stairs was blood all over his face and I thought, it is real. She was

attacked by masked men in her own - met in her home. The robbers left

lasting scars. Your home is no longer warm any more and I had to

move out. They hit my dad on the head when the key men. He now has

epilepsy as a result. -- when the came in. We're both still on

medication. They were animals and they just wanted to wreck the place

to pieces. This is this war has won a part in the riots. It was a

complete mess. We were in that back of the store and they were at front

of the store. It must been scary. Yes, they're adrenalin was going.

How will these commissioners help these people? They will come

strolled out purse strings directly spending money on victim support

services. It it will make it up rents, the public are sceptical.

While some were in 19% think it is important to listen to victims only

one in five think that commissioners will improve by

victim Support. I do not think that it will make a difference, I cannot

see her. This woman is not holding out hope as she is critical after

an alleged assault on her husband. All the victims say the same story,

the art and victim but 90% of the time the police treat them as if

the idea then there will stop this man was impressed by individual

officers during the riot but less so by policy. I do not know what

this commission are well to put say that they cannot do any harm at the

at the people were going to stand up well local area. That has to be

a good thing. You envisage these police commissioners making a

difference? I would hope so, the only thing I can say is that people

to support because it is horrible. It is your worst nightmare. She has

nothing but praise but at least but regardless of individual experience

is what opposites it seems a common consent that Britain's voice is

need to be heard by new commissioners.

We have a member of the victim Support in the North West. Some

scepticism in at least police commissioners will make much of it

for us to victims. It will be a statutory policy that they have to

listen to the voices of victims. That will influence their policy of

the go forward. Operationally, chief constable are going to need

to take that message through to how police officers deliberate on the

ground. It is going to be about listening to what happens in local

communities and the big area is that they are working with or not

going to be all same. It is making sure that true voice of victims is

had clearly. Someone else at exit a good idea. I can see where he is

coming from and it is great in one ear rear at you're asking 1% to do

all communities up large areas. There are so many different

communities and to rights of victims, you need a fantastic

amount of knowledge. Some of them are coming in than you that they

know it all and the need to understand the problems that they

will face otherwise it will not work. Your reaction? Having met

that candidates in all it is very good of their communities. But

somehow let it do not realise what it has about in their area. It is

going to be a challenge. Democratic wintered you it is

something that you will come. welcome priority setting being at a

local level however I do have real concerns about concentrating power.

That is going to be on the hands of one person. It is clear what it up

stops, but we are really talking about amass a set of

responsibilities being transfer from at least at the rate used to

his new role. The argument has always been that people do not know

the police authority and they do not listen to what people want. If

you have a single and that show you will break up the right and them.

There is real logic that and just the same argument for mayors. It

also gives the media a focal point. But it is a lot to police in one

person's hands and it starts going wrong and I am not sure that

they're scrutinising panels or ought to the task. Is there an

argument that we look at it and support groups you see that they

would like this sort of character. Is a feeling it at the police are

not do that side of the job well enough? I think the police can

always improve in dealing with victims. One of the problems here

is that you do not want to just do what the people much at the let us.

Some think the people at -- why it or at people you need to listen to.

-- quieter. You think it is better to have at hand that it that is a

former police thought was that? I think that defeats the whole

purpose. I think you want to chief executive at understands private

and public sectors and can get a grip sweat but problems. But the

job might be to pick for anyone to do. -- get to grips. How would be

going to find money for the other things like that in support?

really have to look at how they are going to slice up the cake. It is

going to be a challenge. The back of the matter is that if you do not

victims held at the centre of the story there is no justice.

Here is Chris Rider now what the rest of the political news week in

60 seconds. Back on track, he would have

thought it? Virgin trains can continue to operate for nine months

across the West Coast main line. And for lying hide their owners at

Manchester airport make a move to buy Stansted airport.

Drugs experts from Manchester University reported that smoking

cannabis was no worse than eating junk food. One doctor said that

drugs education in schools was a waste of time.

After ten years at indecision, finally, at his kitchen. Liverpool

football club stays where it is and develops the ground. The news that

the fans but not for the residents but need to move.

The Fusiliers march on Westminster to stop them from disbanding the

regiment. Feelings are running high. Ministers meet to less than an this

Government is not unknown to make a U-turn. -- do not listen.

We have tried to explain why these elections matter at it that has not

worked out about this? #remember, remember it 15th

November. You are collecting the police can make a -- police crime

commissioner. Make sure you vote. That is one on your playlist but

how do you get someone to be interested in these elections?

There will not be any state subsidised election pamphlets but

you would have been other elections. I'm not sure that a web site is in

a book of the candidates have to get out across but territories. But

I do hope that everyone and all will do what the hands engage with

the electorate. Do you worry that the turnout is quite low? Some

people in it might be as low as 15%. As that I looked the legitimacy of

the job from the start? It does. People do not know about the police

Crown Commissioners and many do not know about the elections. It has

not been publicised and the candidates because of the cost

limitations are not getting their message across the wide areas.

has been difficult for those independent candidates to come

forward. Yes that is always difficult for independence that do

not have the infrastructure that political parties hat. It is

another reason why political parties will dominate.