23/06/2013 Sunday Politics North West

comes under fire and higher prices for higher education. But is it ever

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2113 seconds

finances under the spotlight. High prices for higher education, but

who's really counting the cost? And joining us on the programme we have

the Shadow Health Secretary and the MP for Bury North. We have had the

care quality commission this week and the problems with Morecambe Bay

health trust. we need full transparency in the NHS and we are

calling on Jeremy Hunt to implement all of the recommendations of the

report. Into the Stafford Hospital scandal. What are your concerns?

must never lose sight of the fact that at the heart of this is an

enormous personal tragedy for the families involved and let down by

our NHS. What we want to see out of this is a new culture of openness

and transparency, that must be accepted right across our NHS.

continuing fallout from the alleged cover-up of an internal report into

handling of the quality care commission 's hospital, particularly

whether we can now trust the commission to oversee improvements

at the trust. An organisation in turmoil, the

public confused and politicians angry. As we saw, a culture within

the NHS has been allowed to develop within which secrecy has been picked

ahead of patient safety and care. Joshua died eight days after he was

born. His father has been fighting to expose the truth about the

hospital. I recognised they were feelings. I did not realise the

extent. I felt physically ill when I read about the cover-up.

families have been struggling to be heard, that is now felt to be

because the care quality commission had self-interested its primary

concern. There is a moral crisis of accountability. There are people

prepared to take high salaries but they will not take responsibility

when things go wrong. the names of those accused of trying to delete

the internal critical review were originally redacted from the

report, but then revealed after mounting pressure. They are very

serious allegations and they should have serious consequences if they

are proven to be right. I will back the sea QC to the Hilton trying to

make sure that justice is done. -- quality care commission. Even though

there is new leadership, the feelings that have been outlined

here are such that we cannot consider the regulator fit for

purpose -- feelings. The Health Secretary has turned down a visit to

the hospital. We are joined by the head of health

policy at Manchester business School.

Labour created the care quality commission. Why did it go so badly

wrong? I think that for the people of barrel, -- Barrow, it is the

hospital that went wrong as well as the Quality Care Commission. It is

too dreadful episode they together. The Quality Care Commission do some

very good work across the country, but I am appalled and saddened at

what has happened here. It is inexcusable and appropriate action

should be taken against those involved. But it was labour that

created it. They created the regulatory system. But it didn't

work. What we are seeing is that the regulatory system is in need of

review and change and it is quite the case that the people of Barrow

have been let down and that is why we really need to make sure that the

recommendations that were in the report into Mid Staffordshire,

particularly in relation to transparency, need to be followed.

Why'd you set up an inspector regime which consists of inspectors who

were generalists rather than specialists? The new regime needs to

look at the holder talented of the health and social care system rather

than having different regimes for different parts. But you can still

have specialists. I absolutely understand that. I do not understand

why we have ended up with the situation that we have in Barrow. It

is inexcusable and hopefully we will have the proper transparency that

people who work in the NHS as well as patients who use the NHS deserve.

Is it because the government was putting the hospital under pressure

to become a foundation trust and the Quality Care Commission, which to

some extent answers to the government, wanted to not give it

any bad marks because that would have made it more difficult to

become a trust? to be fair, there is no evidence that there was any kind

of instruction from government that that is the case. but they would not

be a direct instruction, but indirectly was that an issue?

not think so. We need to have a thorough and quick review into the

feelings of the Quality Care Commission. The real story should

not be about the Quality Care Commission and the report, that has

become the story. Quite frankly it is shocking and pollen that they

have tried to delete and cover up what they have found. The real story

should be what happened at Barrow and what we will do to put that

right. What lessons should we draw from this? Directory main lessons.

First, for those staff and organisations like Quality Care

Commission who identify pure practice and wrongdoing, they need

to have resilience in terms of putting their case. Eventually they

were heard. But it has taken us far too long. But we should not need

whistleblowers. Absolutely right. Your practice was identified years

ago. -- bad practice. I think there are two more lessons actually. One

is that I think that the NHS at senior levels needs to draw from a

much broader pool of talent in taking on these very different jobs.

If you would at who takes on these very senior positions across the NHS

there is too much of a club culture. You therefore have a narrow lens and

two narrower range of expertise and that is why you get mistake after

mistake. Is it a job for the organisation? The third lesson is

that this is the third reorganisation in ten years, and

that is partly the responsibility of politicians who, when they come into

power, cannot resist restructuring the NHS and because it is a complex

job these organisations take a while to become competent. My message to

politicians is, think twice before restructuring you may have more

blood on your hands. but they cannot help it, they cannot resist it.

cannot resist it, but they should. It is not a train set. What is your

view in terms of reorganisation, and NHS reorganisation in general. The

professor is saying that there is too much of it, it is too

destabilising. We now have a settled position in the NHS. We have a

settled system and I do not think that anyone is suggesting that there

should be any giant reorganisation of the NHS. That is because it is

happening at the moment. It has happened and we have a settled NHS.

What this does demonstrate is that these incidents at Barrow happened

in 2008 when the last government had been in power for 11 years. This

demonstrates once and for all that it is not just about money. What

ever anybody thinks, there were billions of money being poured into

the NHS. Do you think it is the government 's fault? What I am

saying is that it is not just about the amount of money that goes into

the NHS that determines the outcome. And in any system people can was

make mistakes, regardless of the amount of money being put into the

system. You can still have mistakes made. Human error can take place.

Would you agree with that, professor? I would turn extent. At

the heart of the trouble with the NHS is the organisational culture

and claim it. It is a culture of bullying and intimidation and an

over focus on the part of both political parties around targets and

performance overriding care and compassion. We cannot expect staff

to provide care and compassion are they themselves are being believed

and intimidated. How to be overcome that? we need to implement

everything that has been recommended in the report into everything that

we do for the future of the NHS, and particularly that duty of

transparency. We need to get a pride back into working with the NHS

because there are thousands of really good doctors and nurses and

sometimes we forget that actually the NHS performs a incredibly well

in comparison with other international health care systems on

safety and care. Thank you very much.

There is an unusual mixture of relief and stress on our university

campuses at the moment. Students relieved exams are over, staff

worrying about business. Salford University is cutting courses and

the University of Bolton is making staff redundant.

Attracting students as a University challenge. These are Salford

students at the sharp end of broadcasting. The university has

spent �13 million at this facility at media city. Meanwhile, the

language department has been closed and several courses have been

scrapped. This is the Vice Chancellor, overall student numbers

are down, so is this and you -- is this a new dimension? many

universities have had to discontinue languages because there are not

sufficient students who want to study them. We are College of arts

and technology, we are focused on that. Although languages are

important to us they do not damage our concept as the University.

students have also got tough decisions to make about the future.

Whether to go to university, and which one. I'm thinking of taking

economic 's with politics. It is important because for what I want to

do I want to go into politics. Everybody I have spoken to who has

not gone to university has regretted it. Everyone who has says it is the

best three years of their life. people still excited about

university? After tuition fees, people are still considering what

they are doing. It does not affect me, by the time I have to pay it

back I will be earning enough money to be all right. Liverpool

University as part of the Russell group, which represents the top 24

leading research universities in the UK. New halls of residence and

science labs are being built as part of major investment. You'll mag

International students are really important to a university like ours.

There has been major investment abroad, whether University in China

catering for 10,000 students, many of which will come to Liverpool for

part of their degree. we have had major increases in the areas where

we have not previously been able to recruit. Other universities in the

north-west are also going global. The University of Central Lancashire

has links with India and is looking for further expansion. But there has

been criticism of this. This is risky investment and we are

concerned that this is a knee jerk reaction. These students at

Liverpool University have just finished their second year and are

looking for summer jobs. With an average debt of around 30 thousand

pounds looming, is it worth it? not do very many hours in

university, I do not get very much contact time. But you have to put a

lot of work in yourself. I recommend going, you get your qualifications.

But you learn to go up and you become who you are going to be.

People always forget about the fun element. Universities still insist

they are the best form of career investment, but in challenging

times, universities are dealing with a degree of uncertainty.

When university fees were increased we were told that �9,000 would be a

rather unusual fee. It has turned out to be the norm. if British

universities, and our universities here in the north-west, our great

success stories, we must not lose sight of the fact that these

universities are sent surely independent, autonomous

institutions. It is up to them what level of fees they charge. As we

have seen, there are some enormous success stories at Manchester and

Liverpool. We have seen individual students do benefit from a

university education. But are you not concerned about the students who

may be put off going because of those high fees? we have seen no

evidence of that. Falling student numbers. the latest figures show

that the 2013 figures are up on the 2012 figures. but they are not up as

much in comparison with the drop the previous year. I remember when

students were introduced and people said that it would be the end of

universities. That did not happen and it will not happen now. Our

universities are thriving and there are thousands of students every year

who want to go and attend university. Would you drop the cap

completely? Personally I would. I do not see any likelihood of that

happening. That is my own personal view, I do not think it will happen

any day soon. What is the problem with, for example, Salford deciding

to drop its language courses? What we are seeing is students have

carefully considered how they want to spend that amount of money and

they have decided that that is not value for money. I am personally

saddened that Salford 's decision, not least because I graduated from

Salford University and have some fond memories of my time there. But

the real issue here is that this is the other side of the coin of the

debate we had a couple of years ago about tuition fees. A lot of focus

was on the trebling of tuition fees and I voted against that measure

because I feared that particularly for young people in a constituency

like the one that I represent, that would be a major block for them

pursuing a future in higher education. But the other side of

that, and not really many people picked up on it at the time, was

that the government was also cutting its sectoral -- central grants. That

means that some of the small universities are now struggling in

the free marketplace. but Salford University as the example says they

will concentrate on what they are particularly good at, and languages

is not our focus. Really they will focus on what brings in the students

and the fees, that is part of the problem with the marketplace in

higher education. What I would like to see as opportunities for young

people from Greater Manchester in the north-west who may not have the

opportunity to go and study foreign and white, but will have the

opportunity to take a degree course on their doorstep and Greater

Manchester. -- go and study far and wide. We are seeing that the best

will thrive. It will be up to each university to offer the best package

that they can, and those that do offer the best package, they are the

ones that will survive and thrive. It is time for the rest of the week

's news in 60 seconds. Nigel Evans has been rearrested over

new allegations of indecent assault. The Conservative MP and Commons

Deputy Speaker denies the allegations.

The Manchester -based co-operative bank is selling shares for the first

time in 140 years. The UK 's largest mutual has other financial -- a

financial black hole to fill. This school cost �25 million but the

council says it is not attracting enough pupils to be viable.

Pensioner power on parade in Blackpool to protest against

dwindling incomes and attacks to universal benefits.

And it was less of a loving and more of a case of mistaken identity.

President Obama repeatedly called the Chancellor Geoffrey, confusing

him with his favourite 80s soul singer.

It is an easy mistake to make. Andrew, we have the comprehensive

spending review coming up and news this week that there are further

cuts coming our way. How'd you feel about that? I am really concerned

about that. My local constituency councils have been at the forefront

of the cuts that have already been pushed the way. I am not sure that

those two councils, are another of other councils, will be able to cope

with another 10% of cuts. everyone has to tighten their belts?

absolutely. As a country we have got to start living within our means.

The government have already gone a long way towards balancing the books

but there is further to do. As we will hear this week from the

Chancellor, we will hear the measures that will have to be taken

if we are to start once more to live within our means and balance the

books. Which means more cuts. has to be done fairly and the

problem is when you look at the evidence, the cuts have so far

really targeted the Northern Metropolitan councils

disproportionately. I want to make sure that this does not do the

same. Because the Northern councils are more aligned on public money?