05/02/2012 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

Hello. It has been branded a laughing stock and an obstacle to

economic recovery, the planning process has taken many knocks, not

least, over the time it takes to make a decision. Plans for a hotel

and golf course near the Giant's Causeway have been considered for

12 years. Now a decision is a minute, but dozens of other major

developments are still stuck in the planning process. Do we have to pay

an environmental price to benefit the economy? In a moment, we will

hear from the minister. But first, with us for the next 20 minutes, we

have at Lesley Macaulay, a member of the Conservative Party,

Professor deja Heenan. Good morning to both of the year. Lesley, you

jump ship from the Ulster Unionist Party two weeks ago. What made you

go? I am very excited about our new party, the Northern Ireland

Conservative Party. I am proud of the strategy that we have put

together and our mission statement and our policies. But why did you

leave the Ulster Unionists? I like what we are doing in Northern

Ireland. We are building up a new policies and we are going to be

making Northern Ireland into an Enterprise Zone. But those are not

policies that are that much different from what the Ulster

Unionists say they will do. We will have a direct link with the UK

government and we will have a seat on the board of the Conservative

Party. It does show for all of the political parties that you cannot

take your support for granted. the last few years, the Ulster

Unionist Party has been called a broad church. If we follow that

analogy, people in Northern Ireland are losing faith in the broader

church. You need to know what you Party stands for and you must unite

behind that vision. The Ulster Unionists are in disarray. I think

they need to get behind closed doors, sort out what the future of

the party will look like, and if people at that stage want to leave,

let them leave. This kind of public wrangling is unseemly and people

are very switched off by it. When this article first appeared, should

this have been done then? This has been going on for three weeks and

it is the story that keeps on going. We needed decisive leadership at

the start to bring people in to say, let's have a moratorium. There are

lots of different stories and we have got to say, let's come

together and decide what the issues are. Stay with us.

He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. New plans for a

shopping centre is just one of a number of proposals awaiting a

decision by the Environment Minister.

This area has been trading well through the recession, but the

dynamic of this market town could be about to change. This

development site on the outskirts has been in the pipeline for more

than a decade. This week, Jim Shannon went to meet the

Environmental Minister. For his part, Alex Attwood is giving

nothing away, but I understand that he will make a final decision

within weeks. If he gives it the go-ahead he will find himself, not

for the first time, at war with the local town centre traders. Out of

town retailing is doing nothing. It has a massive Betjeman's will

affect. We do not know where these shoppers will come from. --

detrimental effect. The Castlebawn proposal is being

considered as an Article 31, a special category for major planning

applications, the type most likely to be controversial and to end up

at the Planning Appeals Commission or in court under judicial review.

Another is the city airport's proposal to extend its runway.

Ryanair pulled out over the delay in gaining permission. And that is

not the only issue here. The impact of aircraft noise has caused a long

running dispute between the airport and the residents. The Minister

wants to break the logjam and to that end he's about to appoint a

public examiner who'll study the levels of aircraft noise and report

back to him in the summer. After that, it's likely that other issues

like the airport's runway expansion plan will be able to move ahead

thru the planning system. At the beginning of January, there were

more than 50 major planning applications under Article 31.

These include some of the most controversial developments in

Northern Ireland. Alex Attwood has told his officials that he intends

to clear at least half of these, and perhaps more, by the summer.

What I have done is consistent with my authority and I have actively

managed these applications. All of them count in a way that creates

certainty. It brings people to a conclusion so that developers and

communities and no one way or the other what will happen. --

communities and no one way or the other.

The Minister was hearing the concerns of environmentalists at an

event in Stormont this week. Representatives of the construction

industry were there also, and they say the Minister's commitment to

efficiency is not replicated throughout planning. The main

blockage has been the lack of individuals wanting to take

decisions. What we need to see is an urgent fast-tracking of the

planning reform. The way in which Northern Ireland's

land and marine resources are managed is being overhauled, not

least with the transfer of planning powers to local councils. The

Minister has often said that he is looking across the water for

inspiration. This leading expert in planning says a new vision is

needed. What we have seen happening in the devolved UK is how the

different planning regimes have tried to concentrate on how they

might improve the efficiency and -- effectiveness and also the equity

of planning. If we look to see what has been happening in Scotland,

they have been working on the modernisation of the planning

system for over 10 years. These things cannot happen overnight. We

have to think of a culture change where all of the parties are

involved in putting a planning system into action that will work.

With me now is the environment minister. Let's look at the City

Airport first of all. What can they tell us that Europe department

cannot? Since 2006 there has been a legacy issue, long before I came

into being a minister, that there was a nuisance issue with the

airport. So I came in, and for the first time in a long time, there

was some doubt. They had a public examination involving the abuse of

the airport and the effect on the committee. -- the views. The

significance of this is that there will be certainty for everyone and

it will enable the airport, if it wishes to, to have for the

commercial development. We can make a judgment on that at a certain

time. Is that passing the buck said that you can tell residents that it

it goes against them you can point the finger to England? There is a

standard process where you bring in people to give advice. Why can we

not assess so much noise? Why can we not do that? That I decide this

is what we will do, then I would be in court, challenged by either the

airport or the residents. In any case, this matter should be

determined in a public process, giving everyone an opportunity to

influence it, and then I will make a decision. I will not hide from

the decision. I make decisions on critical issues that have been

hanging around for too long. So you will go through all of these

controversial issues, it gets decisions on them, but how can you

assure the public that there will not be more court cases and three

will be sitting here with no decision in another five years?

People are entitled to challenge what they think is a bad policy and

the courts can make a determination on that. What I hope is that

because I have demonstrated, perhaps more than any other

minister in recent times, a very firm commitment to our

archaeological heritage at protecting the environment, and the

cars come on the other hand, I have demonstrated that I am determined

to make a planning application that is a economically significant,

people might say that he has got the balance right. If I make a

judgment call, they will take it to the courts. Has it been down to

ministerial decisions in the past? I think there is too much

challenging of our decisions through the courts. But how do you

stop that? Is that the fundamental block, that the decisions are not

made in a tight way? Why not have each side say their piece during

the planning process and then the decision is made as much some

people think there is too much say during the planning stage. There

are people with the resources or the opportunity. I am a believer in

reform. I believe that Northern Ireland has been served very well

by reform. I will judge myself and hope that I am judged by that level

of reform. I inherited 50 or so planning applications of

significant economic development. 21st January and the end of

February, one-quarter of those will have been decided. Between now and

the end of the summer, are many more will be decided. You have to

make decisions and make it in the right time and make sure that you

protect the environment on one hand and make sure that the economy is

fit. But out of the one that you have planned and made decisions on,

you must have an idea of how those are going to go. What percentage of

those will go to court? De and ask the developers and the applicants.

-- go and ask. I cannot legislate against someone going out and

seeking judicial review. The courts have responsibility here. I support

very strongly that our courts now use judicial review to interrogate

public policy decisions across policing, justice and planning. But

maybe there is not an issue -- maybe there is an issue about the

door being too widely opened and that should be more managing --

were managed. I can apply good practice and ensure that no stone

is left unturned to get those decisions out the door and also

demonstrate that there is no compromise in going forward. Let's

look at the research published this week. It says that accusations of

corruption and indecisiveness in the planning service exists and

that it is all in a shambles. think there is some truce -- truth

in what they say. There is evidence that demonstrate the planning

system is getting more and more fit for purpose. Over 90 % of wind

farms have been approved. Nearly 85 % of individual wind turbines have

been approved. I think that is a vital statistic and we should build

on it. Renewables is the single biggest economic option that more

than Ireland has given the quality of the tide and wind. We face the

Atlantic. I think that is a snapshot of the view of insiders

around the planning system. There is also good evidence, especially

now that there is a new senior management team, that every stone

is being unturned and there is dramatic reform similar to the

Scottish system. Why has it taken so long? It should not have taken

so long. But why did it take so long? You must know. It is not an

easy decision. There is a world heritage status and that

environment lobby is very strong and we have a lot to a value. In my

view, there were parts of the planning system that do not bring

forward advice in good time and that should not have happened, and

in any case, there is a ministerial responsibility when it comes to

planning applications to say to the planning system, it is time to make

a decision so bring a foreword the advice. That is what I said. 10

days ago I went out and walked the land and I looked at the Bush mills

and the sand dunes along the Giant's Causeway and I will make a

decision before Valentine's Day. I have some other business with

family on Valentine's Day. Lesley, this is part of your constituency

and where you live a. A wider people saying about the decision

and do you think they will -- what are people saying about the

decision and what do you think they will say? Planning needs to be

faster and easier. A needs to be a more simple. From what I here,

especially people in a bush Mills, they are saying they want this new

golf resort. It is about jobs at the end of the day. It is going to

be affecting the construction industry and long-term jobs for the

wider community. We have to take into consideration lots of things

that are important. We have to seem open for business. There are

planning applications that have been sitting there for two years.

There are some that had been there for longer than that. A that part

of the argument, we always have to decide between the economy and the

environment? -- is that part of the argument. You cannot do what needs

to be done without the proper infrastructure and the proper

building blocks and the key to that is the planning system. The

consultation around the review noted that Arab planning system was

so expensive -- noted that our planning system was so expensive

and outdated. It looks like it could be 2016 before we even see

the decentralisation to district councils where they would be able

to have a leadership on local issues. We cannot afford to wait

until 2016 for reform. Reform is vital if we are going to get the

economic reform we need. -- economic system we need. It has to

be known that the system is tied up in bureaucracy and has been for 10

years. The experts said it took Scotland 10 years. How do we change

some of the things that were mentioned? We need to have a

reformed system that is fit for purpose, a planning system that is

fit for purpose. It needs to be faster and legally proofed in order

to protect the environment and get decisions out the door. Delay has

been a character of the planning system and it cannot be if we are

going to go forward. But we have to simplify it and make it more

understandable. That is why the planning system in Scotland, where

they have a single policy statement with an overview from the

government and a political statement about how it fits into

the economy, is the way I will go. That will take me two years and in

the meantime I will radically reform the planning system on a

case by case, policy to policy basis. But you may not even be

there for those two years. It will be an SDLP policy. When I came in,

I took forward the SDLP government thinking. Whoever might successor

might be, the critical issue is, will ministers be able to use their

power. There are ministers who do not know the difference. Here is a

look at our week in 60 seconds with The week began with David and Tom

going head-to-head in a row that changed the political temperature

at Stormont. I said it is cold in this part of the House! As David

lost his job, the policing Board had other jobs to worry about, the

ones that PSNI were offering to ex officers. The debate has to be had.

Jobs were also to the fore when one council unveiled its �100 million

investment package. People are frightened by it. Vince Cable

dropped by to offer his support to local firms. And in Fermanagh, it

was reported untapped gas could supply Northern Ireland for decades.

Anything that has been when it offers cannot be bad. After years