13/10/2013 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland


Andrew Neil and Mark Carruthers are joined by the new Scottish secretary Alistair Carmichael, Ken Clarke, Chris Huhne and Labour MP Diane Abbott.

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 13/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!



Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's


Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he


has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps


going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.


Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne


will be with us. We'll ask him for the inside scoop.


And in Northern Ireland, the Prime Diane Abbott will


And in Northern Ireland, the Prime Minister came and delivered his best


sales pitch, says we've misunderstood the problem


of human trafficking and that men are the forgotten victims.


And with me, as always, three pundits who we try to shuffle out of


a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an


Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if their lives depended on it


throughout the programme. Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving


to the left or right? Last week, a chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen


a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could


indicate he moved back to the middle. New shadows Work and


Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the


Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools


after all. Here he is on the BBC earlier this morning.


I've one message for you and viewers. If you are a group of


parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting up a


school in areas where you need new school place, the Labour Government


will be on your side. That's free schools. We are in favour of


enterprise and innovation. It will schools. We are in favour of


be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It


will have properly qualified teachers in these schools. And


thirdly, systems of financial accountability. What is going on


with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael


Gove's policy. I'm not sure if the policies have


changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and free


schools. A significant change of tone. It was interesting the


reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge


of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.


Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying


Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip


from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of


need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,


we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set


these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,


so far the debate has been polarised. You've had the Michael


Gove uber reformers in the department. This weekend, we've had


leaked memos from one of Michael Gove's advisers which are extreme


views about the state of education. And on the other side teaching


unions. It hasn't led to a healthy debate which represents what parents


want out of schools or employers. This is a huge move from the Labour


Party to sound more reasonable. They have been silent on education which


is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?


They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free


schools for those who have them? You only apiece the focus groups by


changing the policy substantially. I always thought a test for this


Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed Miliband would promote Blair rights,


it is clear he did, it is whether they would be allowed to be Blair


rights. When Stephen Twigg carried the education portfolio it was clear


his own views were closer to the Government than he was allowed to


let on. He was constrained. There is no point of giving Tristram Hunt


this job if he is not allowed to say what he thinks. I wouldn't mind


betting privately he thinks free schools should be available beyond


just areas of need. He hasn't yet defined need. It could be, we've run


out of places or the existing schools are so bad we need schools.


If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they


are in schools rated as unsatisfactory that's no different.


He wanted to say he was in favour of higher educational standards and


rigour, he had to tell the audience he has a Cambridge PhD to attack


Michael Gove. That was difficult for Tristram Hunt he had to mention


that. Is that worth something, a PhD from Cambridge? Obviously to him it


is. He said they would demand proper teaching qualifications. That could


count him out. He does some teaching? Independent schools do not


have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never


been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow


free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to


say that. Watch this space. The dust settled


after the party resufficients. Do the Tories look a bit more like


Britain. Do the Tories look more like Labour? Here's guiles.


#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,


rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping


beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in


and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street with


a smile on their face after going to see the boss. The once who are to be


sacked, they usually go round the back. Not this time. No, something


new alerted us all. The-PM started it. It was an extraordinary day. I


can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties


changing ministerial teams at the same time. The fact is that


resufficient happened on Twitter. Not that the press stopped watching


the door as well. News was a bit slow in coming until Alastair


Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm


disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been


able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one


imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and


on... And on... And on! #4 The welcomer, who was


simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of


the Home Office in conspiracy to let Norman Baker sing a tune.


the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic


cone... # #. The brutality of the Liberal


Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet


Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory


ranks were shifting too. The PM keen to boost the numbers of telegenic


women walking into Government and turning perceptions around. He


tipped a so-called flatcap to men from the north or more humble


backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends


of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers were


learning of Labour's changes. Labour too knows the value of new young


blood striding into the limelight. Again some with TV experience of


that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de peer row would be hard to describe


as hard left. But Blairbrushing the past out of the picture seemed to be


the name of the day. Liam Byrne moved from higher profile roles.


With Diane Abbott also gone, was this really a Blair right cull? It


depends what you mean. Blair right used to mean someone who wanted Tony


Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely


with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain set


of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair


rights within the party. But we are seeing the group around Tony Blair


are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was


over. New bees were sharing the spoils of winner while ousted


ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or one


angry ex-wife bemoaned their dismissal.


Disappointment in politics is disified. How much much someone


standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get


someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying!


And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins


us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used


in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm


hearing you loud and clear. Why have you agreed to run a department? That


you wanted to abolish six years ago? Hello? Maybe our connections are not


so great after all. Alastair Charmichael. Can you hear me? I can


hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.


Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department


you wanted to abolish six years ago? Because this is the, probably one of


the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure


that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about


the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of


Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is


true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a


real voice in that debate. What have you that Michael Moore didn't have?


Look, I think Michael Moore did an excellent job. The work he did


delivering the Edinburgh agreement to ensure we got a proper, fair,


clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to


the Scottish Parliament was a substantial piece of work. I'm not


comparing myself to Michael. He's a friend of mine. I will say that as


we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself. I


will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to


remain part of the UK. This isn't just some abstract debate about


nationhood, sovereignty, this is a real debate about people's jobs,


their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot


more. For that, I relish the challenge. I understand that. But if


you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no --


poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing


pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to


save the Liberal Democrats in Scotland? And lieu, you misread the


situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think


anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people


who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn out


next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for


that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own


party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You


were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in


fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the


Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for


everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for


a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could


have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and


for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in


British politics for the last three-and-a-half years, Liberal


Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition Government. I would not have


survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I


was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.


So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.


As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also of


the referendum vote, opinion polls are a snapshot. They are not a


prediction of what will happen in the future. I will be out there


putting the case. Neither the next election nor the referendum is one


or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against


is the complacency which says because we are a good margin ahead


today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.


Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal


Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the


real poll in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.


You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should


David Cameron face him? I am happy to face anybody who wants to


debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex


Salmond and the Scottish Nationalists to portray this as some


sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy


and English conservativism, which it is not. This is a debate that has to


be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David


Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is


not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,


the person who should be debating with Alex Salmond is Alistair


Darling. He has got a Scottish name and his family hails from the


wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described


the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were


you referring to the campaign or Alistair Darling? I was not


referring to Alistair Darling. I think what I was saying is that as


we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we


are now campaigning for people 's hearts because if you look at the


range of papers the Government has published, it is pretty clear the


arguments lie in relation to the head. I am not giving up the battle


for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as


somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland to


remain part of the UK. You come from an island that has eight


distilleries and I understand you haven't even had a single


celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips. Not


supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the 1st


of November, I will be doing it in aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if


anybody wants to go to their website, they can donate. It is


worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister


who many thought might get Reef -- we shuffled but didn't is Ken


Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,


more women and more ethnic minorities, where did you fit in? I


would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it is


difficult to replace them. I enjoy it. It is a great privilege to have


a role in Cabinet and I will carry on as long as David wants me to do.


I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have


survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this


reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,


asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my


role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings


of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.


You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why do


you keep going? What do you hope to achieve in politics? I am mostly a


political anorak, I have been since I was very small, by the process of


politics but the older I get I get more concerned about the good


governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems


is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is very


difficult and I find it fascinating. The old argument that attracts every


decent person into politics, you might be able sometimes to make a


bit of difference, and I try to do that. I try not to hark back on my


experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the


Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on


Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain


adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda


on Britain's membership to the EU? I am always for holding people


accountable to the long-term and medium term consequences of


decisions they take as representatives, but this is a


generational thing. I am in a minority now and my colleagues have


firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of


Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is one


of the most important things in politics. It will determine


Britain's place in the modern world and determine whether our


politicians are able to look after the living standards, the economy,


the safety against terrorism. Last the living standards, the economy,


summer you said that only extreme nationalists wanted a silly EU


referendum. It follows your party must be full of extremely silly


nationalists. The people who are desperate to have a referendum are


all the people who actually want to leave the European Union. The


referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get


across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing you


read in the newspaper about what the commission is or is not doing, do


bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a


leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from


there we can have a greater influence in events. That is not


just how the politicians get on the world stage, it is how the


politicians look after us when we face danger from terrorism is


spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being


threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will give


us a referendum. I had other engagements on the Friday concerned.


It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be


seen voting for something your heart is not in. Let's be honest here.


Look, many of your colleagues I have interviewed say that if the choice


was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and


leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in


even on the status quo, wouldn't you? I haven't spent so long


supporting the EU to leave now if I got chance. I think our economy is


much stronger than it would have been if we were outside the EU. We


have continued attracting investment, as in Washington last


week. We are trying to roll forward the prospect of free trade and I


have to reassure Americans that we are not likely to leave the EU to


make sure they will invest here. That is true but it also needs


reform. The cry for reform, which is echoed in other countries,


particularly Germany, is a good one. Even if David Cameron came back with


nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?


Going off to be a small economy, and one which is dwindling in comparison


with others, in the modern world it would be dangerous. I also think the


dangers of the Middle East and the dangers of some of the countries


between EU and Russia are considerable, we shouldn't


disengage. I will take that as a yes. I do think reform can


strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree


with me, I trust they will be persuaded when David delivers his


reforms. The latest poll gives Labour a ten point lead over the


Tories and the reason why it has a ten point lead is because UKIP are


up there with 18% of the vote and ten point lead is because UKIP are


the Tory vote has slumped in the Paul to 27%. How would you see off


UKIP? By saying you need a strong Paul to 27%. How would you see off


and effective Government. We faced terrible problems. Every Government


I have been in has been behind in the polls. This Government is not as


popular as the previous Government I have served in under the three


previous prime ministers. When you get an election, people have to ask


themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this


country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I


don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not see


off UKIP. People will not listen to that. When people answer an opinion


poll, they tell you how annoyed they are by something that has recently


upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government


I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you


have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern


us? They did take over a calamitous situation, and there are very


important problems to be decided going forward. UKIP represents


anti-immigration, anti-foreigners, anti-Europe, anti-politics but I


don't think it will get 18% of the opinion -- the polls in any


election. Thank you. Once upon a time, a


politician whose career ended in disgrace might choose to lie low for


a while, perhaps to spend a bit more time tending the tulips and doing


the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from


prison only five months ago but the former Energy Secretary is already


back in the public eye - a column in the Guardian, a job with a renewable


energy firm, even the odd TV interview. So is he working on a


political rehabilitation? Chris Huhne, welcome to the Sunday


Politics. The answer to that is clearly know, and thank you for


inviting me back. You have set your career in politics is over so what


does the future hold for you? I am happy doing what I am doing, I am


passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things


on that front in terms of business and work for think tanks and


non-governmental organisations, and I am doing a column for the Guardian


on Mondays. You obviously get a lot of material from the Sunday Politics


to write about. Have you embarked on political rehabilitation? It was


clear from the point of view of the George when I was sentenced, he


said, this is not about rehabilitating you, because I had


not offended for ten years, it was actually about stopping people like


you, Andrew, Ron doing the same thing. It was a deterrent effect for


the public. That is I think why the prosecution was brought. I had not


offended for ten years on this, either in terms of speeding


points... But you are out to rehabilitate yourself in the public?


I have been a journalist, rehabilitate yourself in the public?


coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own


identity? My view is that the Coalition agreement is for the whole


Parliament, and the Lib Dems are going to stay, and should stay. What


would be a good result for the Lib Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, 15


seats? I think it will be an interesting election because I think


you will have essentially three party leaders, all of whom are


unpopular. It is almost unprecedented that they have


negative ratings so it will be a battle between the walking wounded.


In those circumstances, in my view, the Lib Dems can come out very


well. But you will lose seats, won't you? It is far too early to say. If


the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections, you


could come fourth on fifth behind the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's


leadership be in jeopardy? I've been in countless cycles where we've had


very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general


election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in


jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I


think he'll lead the party into the next general election. I expect


we'll do much better than most people think. If we are heading for


another hung Parliament, which is what the Liberal Democrats want.


Let's be honest, you'd rather be in coalition with the Labour Party than


have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to


colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour


Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of


the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is


absolutely colleagues in the party, it is


the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because


we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't


take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to


coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with


either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer


Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It


is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things


that your voters have voted for. If you get that with one party rather


than another, that's fine. You stand up for Liberal Democrat values, not


for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping


up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a


temporary price freeze? There's been pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a


sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which


led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift


everybody automatically to the lowest possible tariff. So


unfortunately we're at the stage in the political cycle where we are


getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when we


are trying to encourage investment. When the market can give us some of


the lowest gas and electricity prices in Europe. Britain has


son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian


prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our


base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look


at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after


all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after


. The Conservatives are claiming there are


people. Why not cut some of these taxes and


people. Why not cut some of these nones sense. It is coming


people. Why not cut some of these should no better. One the-hip ok


people. Why not cut some of these about this is one person who added


green taxes is George Osborne with the


green taxes is George Osborne with that? We put it into the coalition


green taxes is George Osborne with agreement because the Conservatives


green taxes is George Osborne with not want it. We do not need it to


drive decarbonisation of the electricity system. It was a revenue


raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about


green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,


wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style


press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it


refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither here


nor there. The Guardian gives me a great platform. If it doesn't sign


up to what you believe in will you support it? No because I'm sure


they'll allow me to make that that point. I think newspapers will sign


up for it. They've had a collapse in public trust and confidence in


recent years. Unparalleled. They need a third party endorsement to


say these guys have cleaned up their act. If they are going to get trust


back and they will. When they haven't signed up, which they won't,


you can You're watching the Sunday politics.


Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll talk to


welcome to Sunday politics in Northern Ireland. They came, they


saw, but will be invest? The Prime Minister made no apology. To analyse


the outcome of the investment conference I am joined by a former


chairman of investment NI, Stephen Kingon. We start today by looking at


a week which saw two murders and a series of highly disruptive alerts.


The racist was just yesterday. The M1was closed in both directions


The racist was just yesterday. The while the army carried out


controlled explosions, causing major delays for drivers. It was later


declared and elaborates post. In another case it is not quite


unclear, but regardless of who is responsible for these deaths it is a


tragedy for their families. We still have a lot of work to do to bring


the entire community along with us in this process of conflict


transformation. What kind of impact is it having your home city of


Derry? There has been a lot of anger across the city. There was a rally


which was well attended. There is a strong feeling that people in the


city do not want to return to the past. People felt that they had


moved on with the City of Culture. If one puts aside the terrible


events of the murders, more unfortunate and more worrying idea


attempted bomb attacks. That is worrying people very severely. The


City of Culture still has some way to run. It has been pretty


City of Culture still has some way successful so far from a public


City of Culture still has some way relations point of view. There has


been a lot of good things said about relations point of view. There has


the way that it has unfolded. Is there a real fear that dissident


republicans are responsible and that they are making a point? We have to


put the murder to one side. That has got faces a thick origins, we have


to wait for the investigative process... You think it can have


more to do with criminality than political ideology? That is the


assumption, yes. We have to separate the murders. What we have to look at


is the fact that we have significant sections of the community who feel


disaffected from the peace process. That includes the recent situation


in Derry, but also in north Belfast. The continuous marching debate that


is going on and off first. -- in north Belfast. Society as a whole


has responsibility to reach out and bring people into the process and


address issues that they have that are outstanding to make them feel


part of the journey. We will hear more from both of you. Against that


backdrop, the Prime Minister was here selling Northern Ireland to


international to the owners -- international developers. But the


debate? David Cameron made no apology about selling the benefits


of Northern Ireland. A big challenge remains here. The


state sector is too big and the private sector is too small. We need


to rebalance the Northern Ireland economy. Every politician here in


Northern Ireland is committed to making sure that that rebalancing


takes place. We are all agreed that we need to work on corporation tax


so that we can make a final decision on the devolution of these powers by


so that we can make a final decision next autumn. I make no apology for


being a bit of a salesman today. Some say it is a bit undignified for


a Prime Minister. I say nonsense. I am passionate about the power of


business to create jobs and growth and I am passionate about what


Northern Ireland has to offer. I am here today with the berries and poor


message. Put your money in Northern Ireland and be part of this


incredible success story. I am joined by Stephen King in, a former


chairman of Invest NI. -- Stephen Kingon. We get in front of the Chief


chairman of Invest NI. -- Stephen Executive is coming in here that we


would not necessarily get to see without the investment conference.


would not necessarily get to see It is only part of the process. It


is a marketing event and then we have detailed work to follow up to


nature that the investors that have have detailed work to follow up to


logic will deliver those on the ground. Is it your view that having


the Prime Minister involved and wrapping this in an international


investment conference actually gets people into the room that you would


not get access to under other circumstances? The event itself gets


not get access to under other Chief Executive is in that we would


not otherwise see. The same thing happened in Washington. But also we


get a chance for investors who are already here to give the sort of


story and testament to the potential investors. That is much more


powerful than anything that we can do locally. 75% of companies who


invest in Northern Ireland, as I understand it, reinvest. Once you


get the FDIC it is very important. understand it, reinvest. Once you


But that is only one segment. We have to increase the number of


entrepreneurs and spin out companies that is part of the strategy. Wheels


will have to scale and make our business development better -- we


also have to. How do you judge the success or otherwise of this


conference, how will we know if it has been a success? What we will see


over the next 18 months to three years are various announcements.


Some of them will have started at this conference. It takes a long


time to do the detailed negotiations and then it takes longer to put the


jobs on the ground because you have a situation where it, if you do a


deal, you get a member of jobs from more to. But it takes several years


to put those jobs on the ground. This is a continuous process. But


other regions we give their eye teeth to -- would give their eye


teeth to have the profile that we have as a small region within a


country. You said that foreign have as a small region within a


direct investment was part of the approach. But encouraging local


entrepreneurs you have said is also important. Is Invest NI doing enough


to encourage that part of the economy? Yes, if you look at the


investment that Invest NI Putin, more than 50% goes indigenous


companies. Foreign investment is very important as well because it


shows to people that we are internationally competitive and it


brings skill sets and industries that we do not always have your. It


allows us to build a base. Even the that we do not always have your. It


208 conference which came just that we do not always have your. It


before the global financial crisis, we did see things like the New York


Stock Exchange and the City comment. Paul Gosling, URI financial


journalist, do you think invest NI Paul Gosling, URI financial


is doing enough for that part of the framework -- you are a financial


journalist? One of the fundamental problems we have is the shortage of


skills and graduates in Northern Ireland. One third of graduates go


off to Great Britain, half of those do not return. Those are the people


that we would be expecting to set up businesses. Head we change that? We


need to increase the number of people who become graduates. Those


need to increase the number of are the people who will set up


businesses and enable other investors to come in. One of the


things we need to recognise when we talk about foreign direct


investment, there was a report done talk about foreign direct


for the Scottish Government a few days ago that said that Northern


Ireland has the lowest quantity of foreign investment. We're not


setting the high-value operations here. But we were told that London


was just second to Londoners for as all of this was concerned. We have


the second highest level of FDIC here, but it is not always the kind


of FDI that we want. The figure of one third of graduates going off to


UK universities, only 2% are going to universities in Northern Ireland.


But it is the Republic of Ireland who are bringing in high skill jobs


for graduates. Why not bring more of them into the Republic of Ireland,


encourage them to study there, where they are much closer to home and


more likely to return with the skills that they have required. It


is as much about quantity as quality? We need to look at


corporation tax so that we can create profit sectors. Let's hear


the thoughts. Let's take a look back at the political week that was in


the company of Stephen Walker. Northern Ireland met global


investors with open arms, but it was against the backdrop of two murders


investors with open arms, but it was and security alerts. These


dissidents appear to have stepped up their activities over the past


couple of days, obviously deliberately aimed at undermining


any positivity that might come out of this conference. One-woman's


story reignited the debate over abortion. We cannot ignore the


voices that are speaking in terms of the pain, the trauma and the


anxiety. I am very concerned that people report to me that they are


made to feel like beggars and in 2013 and there simply should not be


happening. And Martin McGuinness told us a


bedtime story. We were lucky enough that we were allocated the Queen 's


bedroom. I do not want you to tell anybody. But I had a little snooze


on her bed. Stephen Walker reporting. It has


been dubbed the British FBI and in England, Scotland and Wales it is


already tackling organised crime, child protection and cyber crime.


But the National Crime Agency will have limited powers here because


Sinn Fein and the SDLP block the legislation. The DUP is not happy


and they wanted implemented without fully. Dolores Kelly, the danger has


to be that Northern Ireland is no more vulnerable than it needs to be


in the face of international organised crime. I do not accept


that. I recognise that there needs to be greater coordination across


that. I recognise that there needs all of the different agencies and we


want to see a National Crime Agency operate here, but we wanted to do so


with the highest level of confidence from the public and the highest


level of transparency and indeed that it is fully accountable to the


policing board and that no operations can take place without


the agreement of the chief constable. Which is a separate


question from the one I asked you, that we are more vulnerable at the


Mormons? The chief constable has said that he gets the highest level


of confidence. We want the one secretary and others to listen and


also enable the legislation to be brought forward to give us what we


need to ensure that the highest level of confidence in policing is


continued into the future. You cannot have it both ways. We are


either more vulnerable at the moment and come under the wing of the NCA,


or we do not need the NCA. It will not take long to sort it out. It has


taken a very long time so far. People are not listening who ought


to be listening. The SDLP is not alone in this. If we look at the


wider debate, not just in the UK Government, with Yvette Cooper. We


have also had Hillary Clinton speaking recently and there is


have also had Hillary Clinton greater transparency being called


for in the USA. Thankfully we are democracy but it does seek to ensure


that the policing structures actually accountable and


operational. We need those democratic protections and


reassurances. Douglas Kelly hinting very strongly that perhaps people


like yourself are not listening -- Dolores Kelly. With respect, we have


worked with the chief constable and we have the greatest level of


accountability in any part of the UK. We will have a situation in


which the NCA will not have constable powers in Northern Ireland


and indeed on any NCA issue, the chief constable would be accountable


to him and the chief constable would be accountable to the board. But


what we are seeing, unfortunately, is a degree of outdated dogma from


Sinn Fein and the SDLP. But is it? We are in a situation where


organised crime has become increasingly sophisticated and is


moving beyond borders. Under range of issues, different child sex boy


to -- exploitation. This is making things difficult for criminals. That


is nothing that any sensible person would want to adopt it. I hope we


can find a solution. I think that the chief constable has the greatest


erect informant in the NCA of any chief constable in the UK -- the


greatest direct involvement. International fraud, cyber crime,


this is not about local police accountability, it is about the


bigger scale of international crime and at the moment not everyone is


happy that we are covered in the way that we should be. We have been


working with others to make sure that our concerns can be met. How do


you respond to the idea that it is outdated dogma? What is outdated is


a level of scrutiny required from the intelligence agencies with the


tools that are available to them. Hillary Clinton and Yvette Cooper


made that very clear. And the former intelligence director of MI5 and MI6


has said that there is a greater need for better intelligence


accountability across those security sectors. You have to take that


seriously. Dolores Kelly has says it is not about her being a national


list. With respect, I think it is about some people being speaks in


list. With respect, I think it is that regard. We need to tackle key


issues. If it is not brought in the fully in Northern Ireland it links


issues. If it is not brought in the us and with the online protection


Centre which is vital. That would be denied to Northern Ireland. The


danger from a Northern Ireland point of view is not simply that current


criminals are allowed to have an easier time, but we will be seen as


the weak link in the chain and we will see a situation in which


criminals will be coming to Northern Ireland, exploiting that situation


for their own ends. I cannot let you go without asking you about the


other issue of the week as far as your party is concerned. A High


Court ruling that a lifetime ban on gay men donating blood is a


rational. And a damning indictment of the way that Edwin Poots has


conducted himself. With respect, Edwin Poots will look at the


judgement. We have tried to provide the best possible health protection.


That has been at the forefront of what we have tried to do throughout


this. Completely out of line with the rest of the UK. There has been a


debate misinterpretation because there has been a range of... This


was the case until a few years ago. There are degrees of band... People


are concerned that the Minister has used his own prejudice in making


this decision. That is actually what people are concerned about. One has


to wonder what is the legal advice, the judges very clearly saying that


the minister acted outside of the framework. Thank you very much


indeed for coming in to join us. Patricia McBride and Paul Gosling


indeed for coming in to join us. are still with me. Patricia McBride,


indeed for coming in to join us. do you have reservations about where


we are? I am seriously concerned about the fact that ministers using


public funds to fund what appears to be his own religious or ethnic


agenda, not only the ban on gay men donating blood but also on adoption


and other issues. He made dispute it, but the evidence appears to


point in that direction. I think we need to have a cohesive policy which


is reasonable. We need to acknowledge the fact that blood


donation is vital to maintaining life here. The more donors that we


can have the better. There is no reason for this and that has been


shown both in the UK and in Ireland. There is no reason for this


ban. To see the obvious, we need to leave religion out of the centre of


politics in Northern Ireland because this seems to come out of a


politics in Northern Ireland because religious belief rather than a


rational decision-making process. I imagine as a former Victims'


Commissioner, we had the current Victims' Commissioner at Stormont


this week saying that victims are being made to feel like beggars by


the thick arms and survivors service which she says is not acceptable --


victims and survivors service. I think that Katherine Stone is


absolutely right in what she has said this week. Two years ago when


the establishment of the service was being discussed, my colleagues and I


warned ministers and officials around the model of assessment that


was being used. We said that the level of clinical assessment was not


appropriate for the needs of victims and survivors and had the capacity


to re-traumatised people. That seems to be what has happened in this


instance. But her position has been disputed. The level of assessment is


simply not appropriate to the needs of many victims and survivors who


need practical help and assistance, who do not need medical assessment


in order to be able to pay fuel who do not need medical assessment


bills for example. Is this something that you take an interest in?


Certainly. Northern Ireland is bogged down with his history but we


also need to deal with the trauma of victims. We need to deal with the


to Andrew. Ed Miliband reshuffled his


ministerial team this week with some commentators calling it the purge of


the Blairites, but one poor lamb who fell victim to this perch was Diane


Abbott, not somebody who worshipped at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on


the backbenches means she can pursue other interests such as attending


the Cheltenham literary Festival, and where she joins us now. Welcome.


Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He talked about message discipline. I


think the thing that did it for them was me coming out on Syria. This was


think the thing that did it for them a purge of the Blairites, how did


you become collateral damage? I have no idea but the fact that I was the


one member of the front bench to go public about my concerns on Syria


probably tipped my enemies in the party machinery over the edge. But


he went your way on Syria, in the end he agreed with your line on


Syria so why would that be for dismissal? I agree with you - you're


fired. Because I actually spoke up and it was the fact that I spoke up,


which was like a pebble falling in a forest or something. I am glad I


spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like people around them than who are


outspoken, who speak their minds? I think he's convinced he needs people


who read from the scripts. People get scripted and people were


increasingly upset that even though get scripted and people were


I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr


Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his


best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour


Party chose the right Miliband. I will remain loyal to him on the


backbenches. You're going to be loyal? However, I want to join in


the debate. You're going to be loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both


in public and private when others were bitching about him behind the


scenes. When it comes to policy, from the backbenches, I hope to be


involved in the debate particularly around nick policy. Et's see how


loyal you are. You must be happy with all this new tough talk on


welfare and free schools? Well, I think both Rachel and Tristram are


very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The


issue of free schools, they are one thing. But diminishing the role of


local authorities is another. There are a lot of group of childrens,


particularly with special needs, who need strong local authorities. I'm


particularly with special needs, who sure Tristram will be aware of that.


As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories


have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms


of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would


you? What are you on, and lieu? I haven't seen the detail of Rachel's


new position. You have to wait and see the detail. It is in the papers.


You haven't stopped reading the papers. It was the Observer. When


will you announce you're running for Mayor of London? I have no plans to


announce that I'm running for Mayor Mayor of London? I have no plans to


of London. No plans. That's what Michael his I will Tyne used to tell


me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the


same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know


you're going for it. I know you're going for it. Everybody knows you're


going for it. Just fess up to your old mate! ! I have no plans to run.


If you did run, who would be, what would be your biggest threat other


than yourself? I think there's a lot of very talented candidates, David


Lammy, Tessa Jowell, Sadiq Khan. They are all talented. I would have


to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of


getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of our


most loyal viewers of This Week and were taxi drivers and their wives.


I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if


you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love


This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love


you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy


chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is


what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this


great programme to go and do something else in politics. She


wanted to do something serious. She had taken what appeared to be a low


position but taken it extremely serious and was committed to the


issues. I'm quite disappointed for her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a


thing. You just mentioned about London mayor, did Diane not ask to


step down? No, she got fired. Someone who's an eminent person on


this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's


missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy


man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.


So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.


We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,


you're not insured for. That thanks for being with us.


Does she have a chance of being Mayor of London? She's very well


known as Michael pointed out. That is important. People who are outside


known as Michael pointed out. That the party fold have traditionally


done well in the mayoral election. The job of being a London mayor is


running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.


There may be problems with her campaign. We're agreed she is


running? That was a transparent bid for it. She's potentially a very


compelling Coll ticks. People have her down as a London Borough


left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said


he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What


do you think? I thing about Diane Abbott is she has a fantastic way of


connecting. She has a really good way of connecting wi people. She


would be a very strong candidate in the contest to be the Labour


candidate. It will probably be a Labour win next time. Depends, if


Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger


for Labour that Diane is the big personality liked by the party


activists that wins the party primary but isn't necessarily a shoe


in come the London general election? That's true. London is traditionally


a Labour city. But Boris managed to win as an outsider. There are big


dangers for Labour with that. I think, as I said before, somebody


who seems a bit independent from their own party machinery tend to do


well. Londoners respond to that. We've only had mayors so far that


were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.


Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing


than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't just stray on Syria, it was immigration.


Why was Jeremy brown replaced by Norman Baker at the Home Office?


This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those


people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into


coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there are


some holy areas of policy, sacred areas which they will defend. That


includes civil liberties. In the Home Office, that incident with the


immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went


down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home


Office it is crucial you have somebody there to put a shield on


that. We've had fun at his appointment, there's a proper


purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg has won the argument against the


left, Vince Cable on the economy, away day in July, briefings say


DrCable's been put in his box. He's won the argument on economic policy


against the left. When it comes to the touchstone issue in the Home


Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The


Guardian. This is important for Liberal Democrat voters. T's


something else going on which is that Nick Clegg has to keep his


parliamentary party happy. That involves giving them ministerial


jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats losing their jobs, Michael Moore,


Jeremy Browne, are Lunn lucky because vacancies have to be created


for number people to come in. By 2015 an astonishing number of


Liberal Democrat MPs will have been on the payroll. It is effective


party management. I want to move on to press regulation. Brian Leveson's


famous report, appeared before the parliamentary select committee. I


will run you a clip from Connor Burns, out of the Westminster


consensus. I bitterly regret politicians got involved in this. We


moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord


Leveson wanted a system the press took a lead on. Voluntary


self-regulation. This is state involvement which I worry about


profoundly. He sits on the media select committee which does


interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier


he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed


Royal Charter. I think he's totally wrong. I think he thinks they


should. But he did say they would. I think he's wrong. They won't sign


up. All the mood music when that Royal Charter was agreed on Friday


was they would not sign up. It is interesting that the Government,


Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't


sign up, the Royal charter will go ahead. I cannot control the Labour


sign up, the Royal charter will go Party and the Liberal Democrats.


What you might do, she's saying, the industry is wind the clock back to


what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,


Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory


regulation. Maria Miller says you may not like this sort of


regulation, stat industry -- statutory legislation but if you


don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing


the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.


Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't


work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was


going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers


now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route


and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will take


it to strains Bowring where freedom of the press is enshrined. They will


fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in


that. The big political question going forward is which of the party


leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press


regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband


the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian


Leveson. You appoint a judge who loves rules, anti-press, you


shouldn't be surprised with what you got in the Leveson report? I big


chunk of press will look at David Cameron saying, you were the guy who


opened this. You may not have intended what will happen. If he had


a majority Government he wouldn't have appointed Brian Leveson. If


they face more punitive fines over Labour ale cases they take that to


Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to


suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of


Human Rights. They'll have to suspend that. We must never come out


of the European Convention. suspend that. We must never come out


Churchill was behind it. He was indeed. But it is actually a major


constitutional issue whether you regulate the press or not. There was


constitutional issue whether you a lot of ill feeling that this Marie


ya miller statement was snubbing out on Friday afternoon. Somebody said


freedom of the press too important to sneak out on afully afternoon.


The whole subject should be treated with respect. We've run out of time.


I'll be back next Sunday with the Communities Secretary Eric Pickles


at our usual time of 11.00am. If Communities Secretary Eric Pickles


it's Sunday, it is the Sunday politics.


Andrew Neil and Mark Carruthers are joined by the new Scottish secretary, Alistair Carmichael, Conservative cabinet minister Ken Clarke, former Liberal Democrat cabinet minister Chris Huhne and Labour MP Diane Abbott.

Download Subtitles