13/10/2013 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's

Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he

has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps

going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.

Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne

will be with us. We'll ask him for the inside scoop.

And in Northern Ireland, the Prime Diane Abbott will

And in Northern Ireland, the Prime Minister came and delivered his best

sales pitch, says we've misunderstood the problem

of human trafficking and that men are the forgotten victims.

And with me, as always, three pundits who we try to shuffle out of

a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an

Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if their lives depended on it

throughout the programme. Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving

to the left or right? Last week, a chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen

a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could

indicate he moved back to the middle. New shadows Work and

Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the

Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools

after all. Here he is on the BBC earlier this morning.

I've one message for you and viewers. If you are a group of

parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting up a

school in areas where you need new school place, the Labour Government

will be on your side. That's free schools. We are in favour of

enterprise and innovation. It will schools. We are in favour of

be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It

will have properly qualified teachers in these schools. And

thirdly, systems of financial accountability. What is going on

with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael

Gove's policy. I'm not sure if the policies have

changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and free

schools. A significant change of tone. It was interesting the

reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying

Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip

from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of

need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,

we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set

these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

so far the debate has been polarised. You've had the Michael

Gove uber reformers in the department. This weekend, we've had

leaked memos from one of Michael Gove's advisers which are extreme

views about the state of education. And on the other side teaching

unions. It hasn't led to a healthy debate which represents what parents

want out of schools or employers. This is a huge move from the Labour

Party to sound more reasonable. They have been silent on education which

is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?

They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free

schools for those who have them? You only apiece the focus groups by

changing the policy substantially. I always thought a test for this

Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed Miliband would promote Blair rights,

it is clear he did, it is whether they would be allowed to be Blair

rights. When Stephen Twigg carried the education portfolio it was clear

his own views were closer to the Government than he was allowed to

let on. He was constrained. There is no point of giving Tristram Hunt

this job if he is not allowed to say what he thinks. I wouldn't mind

betting privately he thinks free schools should be available beyond

just areas of need. He hasn't yet defined need. It could be, we've run

out of places or the existing schools are so bad we need schools.

If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they

are in schools rated as unsatisfactory that's no different.

He wanted to say he was in favour of higher educational standards and

rigour, he had to tell the audience he has a Cambridge PhD to attack

Michael Gove. That was difficult for Tristram Hunt he had to mention

that. Is that worth something, a PhD from Cambridge? Obviously to him it

is. He said they would demand proper teaching qualifications. That could

count him out. He does some teaching? Independent schools do not

have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never

been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow

free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to

say that. Watch this space. The dust settled

after the party resufficients. Do the Tories look a bit more like

Britain. Do the Tories look more like Labour? Here's guiles.

#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,

rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping

beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in

and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street with

a smile on their face after going to see the boss. The once who are to be

sacked, they usually go round the back. Not this time. No, something

new alerted us all. The-PM started it. It was an extraordinary day. I

can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties

changing ministerial teams at the same time. The fact is that

resufficient happened on Twitter. Not that the press stopped watching

the door as well. News was a bit slow in coming until Alastair

Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm

disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been

able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one

imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and

on... And on... And on! #4 The welcomer, who was

simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of

the Home Office in conspiracy to let Norman Baker sing a tune.

the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic

cone... # #. The brutality of the Liberal

Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet

Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory

ranks were shifting too. The PM keen to boost the numbers of telegenic

women walking into Government and turning perceptions around. He

tipped a so-called flatcap to men from the north or more humble

backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends

of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers were

learning of Labour's changes. Labour too knows the value of new young

blood striding into the limelight. Again some with TV experience of

that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de peer row would be hard to describe

as hard left. But Blairbrushing the past out of the picture seemed to be

the name of the day. Liam Byrne moved from higher profile roles.

With Diane Abbott also gone, was this really a Blair right cull? It

depends what you mean. Blair right used to mean someone who wanted Tony

Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely

with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain set

of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair

rights within the party. But we are seeing the group around Tony Blair

are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was

over. New bees were sharing the spoils of winner while ousted

ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or one

angry ex-wife bemoaned their dismissal.

Disappointment in politics is disified. How much much someone

standing here might want it to be the case, you are unlikely to get

someone coming out of that do going "how could." And running off crying!

And the brand, spanking new Scottish Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins

us from Orkney on a line that hasn't been used since the fleet was used

in the outbreak of World War I! I wasn't around at the time. I'm

hearing you loud and clear. Why have you agreed to run a department? That

you wanted to abolish six years ago? Hello? Maybe our connections are not

so great after all. Alastair Charmichael. Can you hear me? I can

hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.

Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department

you wanted to abolish six years ago? Because this is the, probably one of

the most important jobs in British politics at the moment. To ensure

that Scotland remains part of the UK. Even when I was talking about

the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs of Scotland -- representation of

Scotland within Whitehall, there was always a job to be done. That is

true in spades now. I will focus on making sure the UK Government has a

real voice in that debate. What have you that Michael Moore didn't have?

Look, I think Michael Moore did an excellent job. The work he did

delivering the Edinburgh agreement to ensure we got a proper, fair,

clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to

the Scottish Parliament was a substantial piece of work. I'm not

comparing myself to Michael. He's a friend of mine. I will say that as

we go forward into this, this is now about the actual debate itself. I

will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to

remain part of the UK. This isn't just some abstract debate about

nationhood, sovereignty, this is a real debate about people's jobs,

their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot

more. For that, I relish the challenge. I understand that. But if

you're being put in there to save the union, every pole has the no --

poll has the no campaign margin alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing

pretty well to save the union. I suspect you've been given the job to

save the Liberal Democrats in Scotland? And lieu, you misread the

situation if you -- Andrew, you misread the situation new think

anybody is going to be the person who will save the union. The people

who will save the union are the people of Scotland if they turn out

next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for

that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own

party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You

were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in

fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the

Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for

everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for

a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could

have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and

for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in

British politics for the last three-and-a-half years, Liberal

Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition Government. I would not have

survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I

was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.

So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.

As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also of

the referendum vote, opinion polls are a snapshot. They are not a

prediction of what will happen in the future. I will be out there

putting the case. Neither the next election nor the referendum is one

or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against

is the complacency which says because we are a good margin ahead

today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.

Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal

Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the

real poll in the Scottish Parliamentary elections.

You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should

David Cameron face him? I am happy to face anybody who wants to

debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex

Salmond and the Scottish Nationalists to portray this as some

sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy

and English conservativism, which it is not. This is a debate that has to

be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,

the person who should be debating with Alex Salmond is Alistair

Darling. He has got a Scottish name and his family hails from the

wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described

the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were

you referring to the campaign or Alistair Darling? I was not

referring to Alistair Darling. I think what I was saying is that as

we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we

are now campaigning for people 's hearts because if you look at the

range of papers the Government has published, it is pretty clear the

arguments lie in relation to the head. I am not giving up the battle

for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as

somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland to

remain part of the UK. You come from an island that has eight

distilleries and I understand you haven't even had a single

celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips. Not

supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the 1st

of November, I will be doing it in aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if

anybody wants to go to their website, they can donate. It is

worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister

who many thought might get Reef -- we shuffled but didn't is Ken

Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,

more women and more ethnic minorities, where did you fit in? I

would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it is

difficult to replace them. I enjoy it. It is a great privilege to have

a role in Cabinet and I will carry on as long as David wants me to do.

I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this

reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,

asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.

You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why do

you keep going? What do you hope to achieve in politics? I am mostly a

political anorak, I have been since I was very small, by the process of

politics but the older I get I get more concerned about the good

governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems

is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is very

difficult and I find it fascinating. The old argument that attracts every

decent person into politics, you might be able sometimes to make a

bit of difference, and I try to do that. I try not to hark back on my

experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the

Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

on Britain's membership to the EU? I am always for holding people

accountable to the long-term and medium term consequences of

decisions they take as representatives, but this is a

generational thing. I am in a minority now and my colleagues have

firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is one

of the most important things in politics. It will determine

Britain's place in the modern world and determine whether our

politicians are able to look after the living standards, the economy,

the safety against terrorism. Last the living standards, the economy,

summer you said that only extreme nationalists wanted a silly EU

referendum. It follows your party must be full of extremely silly

nationalists. The people who are desperate to have a referendum are

all the people who actually want to leave the European Union. The

referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get

across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing you

read in the newspaper about what the commission is or is not doing, do

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

there we can have a greater influence in events. That is not

just how the politicians get on the world stage, it is how the

politicians look after us when we face danger from terrorism is

spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being

threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will give

us a referendum. I had other engagements on the Friday concerned.

It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be

seen voting for something your heart is not in. Let's be honest here.

Look, many of your colleagues I have interviewed say that if the choice

was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and

leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in

even on the status quo, wouldn't you? I haven't spent so long

supporting the EU to leave now if I got chance. I think our economy is

much stronger than it would have been if we were outside the EU. We

have continued attracting investment, as in Washington last

week. We are trying to roll forward the prospect of free trade and I

have to reassure Americans that we are not likely to leave the EU to

make sure they will invest here. That is true but it also needs

reform. The cry for reform, which is echoed in other countries,

particularly Germany, is a good one. Even if David Cameron came back with

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

Going off to be a small economy, and one which is dwindling in comparison

with others, in the modern world it would be dangerous. I also think the

dangers of the Middle East and the dangers of some of the countries

between EU and Russia are considerable, we shouldn't

disengage. I will take that as a yes. I do think reform can

strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree

with me, I trust they will be persuaded when David delivers his

reforms. The latest poll gives Labour a ten point lead over the

Tories and the reason why it has a ten point lead is because UKIP are

up there with 18% of the vote and ten point lead is because UKIP are

the Tory vote has slumped in the Paul to 27%. How would you see off

UKIP? By saying you need a strong Paul to 27%. How would you see off

and effective Government. We faced terrible problems. Every Government

I have been in has been behind in the polls. This Government is not as

popular as the previous Government I have served in under the three

previous prime ministers. When you get an election, people have to ask

themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this

country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I

don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not see

off UKIP. People will not listen to that. When people answer an opinion

poll, they tell you how annoyed they are by something that has recently

upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government

I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you

have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern

us? They did take over a calamitous situation, and there are very

important problems to be decided going forward. UKIP represents

anti-immigration, anti-foreigners, anti-Europe, anti-politics but I

don't think it will get 18% of the opinion -- the polls in any

election. Thank you. Once upon a time, a

politician whose career ended in disgrace might choose to lie low for

a while, perhaps to spend a bit more time tending the tulips and doing

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

prison only five months ago but the former Energy Secretary is already

back in the public eye - a column in the Guardian, a job with a renewable

energy firm, even the odd TV interview. So is he working on a

political rehabilitation? Chris Huhne, welcome to the Sunday

Politics. The answer to that is clearly know, and thank you for

inviting me back. You have set your career in politics is over so what

does the future hold for you? I am happy doing what I am doing, I am

passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things

on that front in terms of business and work for think tanks and

non-governmental organisations, and I am doing a column for the Guardian

on Mondays. You obviously get a lot of material from the Sunday Politics

to write about. Have you embarked on political rehabilitation? It was

clear from the point of view of the George when I was sentenced, he

said, this is not about rehabilitating you, because I had

not offended for ten years, it was actually about stopping people like

you, Andrew, Ron doing the same thing. It was a deterrent effect for

the public. That is I think why the prosecution was brought. I had not

offended for ten years on this, either in terms of speeding

points... But you are out to rehabilitate yourself in the public?

I have been a journalist, rehabilitate yourself in the public?

coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own

identity? My view is that the Coalition agreement is for the whole

Parliament, and the Lib Dems are going to stay, and should stay. What

would be a good result for the Lib Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, 15

seats? I think it will be an interesting election because I think

you will have essentially three party leaders, all of whom are

unpopular. It is almost unprecedented that they have

negative ratings so it will be a battle between the walking wounded.

In those circumstances, in my view, the Lib Dems can come out very

well. But you will lose seats, won't you? It is far too early to say. If

the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections, you

could come fourth on fifth behind the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's

leadership be in jeopardy? I've been in countless cycles where we've had

very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general

election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in

jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I

think he'll lead the party into the next general election. I expect

we'll do much better than most people think. If we are heading for

another hung Parliament, which is what the Liberal Democrats want.

Let's be honest, you'd rather be in coalition with the Labour Party than

have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to

colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour

Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of

the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is

absolutely colleagues in the party, it is

the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because

we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't

take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to

coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with

either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer

Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It

is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things

that your voters have voted for. If you get that with one party rather

than another, that's fine. You stand up for Liberal Democrat values, not

for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping

up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a

temporary price freeze? There's been pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a

sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which

led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift

everybody automatically to the lowest possible tariff. So

unfortunately we're at the stage in the political cycle where we are

getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when we

are trying to encourage investment. When the market can give us some of

the lowest gas and electricity prices in Europe. Britain has

son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian

prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our

base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look

at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after

all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after

. The Conservatives are claiming there are

people. Why not cut some of these taxes and

people. Why not cut some of these nones sense. It is coming

people. Why not cut some of these should no better. One the-hip ok

people. Why not cut some of these about this is one person who added

green taxes is George Osborne with the

green taxes is George Osborne with that? We put it into the coalition

green taxes is George Osborne with agreement because the Conservatives

green taxes is George Osborne with not want it. We do not need it to

drive decarbonisation of the electricity system. It was a revenue

raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about

green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,

wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style

press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it

refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither here

nor there. The Guardian gives me a great platform. If it doesn't sign

up to what you believe in will you support it? No because I'm sure

they'll allow me to make that that point. I think newspapers will sign

up for it. They've had a collapse in public trust and confidence in

recent years. Unparalleled. They need a third party endorsement to

say these guys have cleaned up their act. If they are going to get trust

back and they will. When they haven't signed up, which they won't,

you can You're watching the Sunday politics.

Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll talk to

welcome to Sunday politics in Northern Ireland. They came, they

saw, but will be invest? The Prime Minister made no apology. To analyse

the outcome of the investment conference I am joined by a former

chairman of investment NI, Stephen Kingon. We start today by looking at

a week which saw two murders and a series of highly disruptive alerts.

The racist was just yesterday. The M1was closed in both directions

The racist was just yesterday. The while the army carried out

controlled explosions, causing major delays for drivers. It was later

declared and elaborates post. In another case it is not quite

unclear, but regardless of who is responsible for these deaths it is a

tragedy for their families. We still have a lot of work to do to bring

the entire community along with us in this process of conflict

transformation. What kind of impact is it having your home city of

Derry? There has been a lot of anger across the city. There was a rally

which was well attended. There is a strong feeling that people in the

city do not want to return to the past. People felt that they had

moved on with the City of Culture. If one puts aside the terrible

events of the murders, more unfortunate and more worrying idea

attempted bomb attacks. That is worrying people very severely. The

City of Culture still has some way to run. It has been pretty

City of Culture still has some way successful so far from a public

City of Culture still has some way relations point of view. There has

been a lot of good things said about relations point of view. There has

the way that it has unfolded. Is there a real fear that dissident

republicans are responsible and that they are making a point? We have to

put the murder to one side. That has got faces a thick origins, we have

to wait for the investigative process... You think it can have

more to do with criminality than political ideology? That is the

assumption, yes. We have to separate the murders. What we have to look at

is the fact that we have significant sections of the community who feel

disaffected from the peace process. That includes the recent situation

in Derry, but also in north Belfast. The continuous marching debate that

is going on and off first. -- in north Belfast. Society as a whole

has responsibility to reach out and bring people into the process and

address issues that they have that are outstanding to make them feel

part of the journey. We will hear more from both of you. Against that

backdrop, the Prime Minister was here selling Northern Ireland to

international to the owners -- international developers. But the

debate? David Cameron made no apology about selling the benefits

of Northern Ireland. A big challenge remains here. The

state sector is too big and the private sector is too small. We need

to rebalance the Northern Ireland economy. Every politician here in

Northern Ireland is committed to making sure that that rebalancing

takes place. We are all agreed that we need to work on corporation tax

so that we can make a final decision on the devolution of these powers by

so that we can make a final decision next autumn. I make no apology for

being a bit of a salesman today. Some say it is a bit undignified for

a Prime Minister. I say nonsense. I am passionate about the power of

business to create jobs and growth and I am passionate about what

Northern Ireland has to offer. I am here today with the berries and poor

message. Put your money in Northern Ireland and be part of this

incredible success story. I am joined by Stephen King in, a former

chairman of Invest NI. -- Stephen Kingon. We get in front of the Chief

chairman of Invest NI. -- Stephen Executive is coming in here that we

would not necessarily get to see without the investment conference.

would not necessarily get to see It is only part of the process. It

is a marketing event and then we have detailed work to follow up to

nature that the investors that have have detailed work to follow up to

logic will deliver those on the ground. Is it your view that having

the Prime Minister involved and wrapping this in an international

investment conference actually gets people into the room that you would

not get access to under other circumstances? The event itself gets

not get access to under other Chief Executive is in that we would

not otherwise see. The same thing happened in Washington. But also we

get a chance for investors who are already here to give the sort of

story and testament to the potential investors. That is much more

powerful than anything that we can do locally. 75% of companies who

invest in Northern Ireland, as I understand it, reinvest. Once you

get the FDIC it is very important. understand it, reinvest. Once you

But that is only one segment. We have to increase the number of

entrepreneurs and spin out companies that is part of the strategy. Wheels

will have to scale and make our business development better -- we

also have to. How do you judge the success or otherwise of this

conference, how will we know if it has been a success? What we will see

over the next 18 months to three years are various announcements.

Some of them will have started at this conference. It takes a long

time to do the detailed negotiations and then it takes longer to put the

jobs on the ground because you have a situation where it, if you do a

deal, you get a member of jobs from more to. But it takes several years

to put those jobs on the ground. This is a continuous process. But

other regions we give their eye teeth to -- would give their eye

teeth to have the profile that we have as a small region within a

country. You said that foreign have as a small region within a

direct investment was part of the approach. But encouraging local

entrepreneurs you have said is also important. Is Invest NI doing enough

to encourage that part of the economy? Yes, if you look at the

investment that Invest NI Putin, more than 50% goes indigenous

companies. Foreign investment is very important as well because it

shows to people that we are internationally competitive and it

brings skill sets and industries that we do not always have your. It

allows us to build a base. Even the that we do not always have your. It

208 conference which came just that we do not always have your. It

before the global financial crisis, we did see things like the New York

Stock Exchange and the City comment. Paul Gosling, URI financial

journalist, do you think invest NI Paul Gosling, URI financial

is doing enough for that part of the framework -- you are a financial

journalist? One of the fundamental problems we have is the shortage of

skills and graduates in Northern Ireland. One third of graduates go

off to Great Britain, half of those do not return. Those are the people

that we would be expecting to set up businesses. Head we change that? We

need to increase the number of people who become graduates. Those

need to increase the number of are the people who will set up

businesses and enable other investors to come in. One of the

things we need to recognise when we talk about foreign direct

investment, there was a report done talk about foreign direct

for the Scottish Government a few days ago that said that Northern

Ireland has the lowest quantity of foreign investment. We're not

setting the high-value operations here. But we were told that London

was just second to Londoners for as all of this was concerned. We have

the second highest level of FDIC here, but it is not always the kind

of FDI that we want. The figure of one third of graduates going off to

UK universities, only 2% are going to universities in Northern Ireland.

But it is the Republic of Ireland who are bringing in high skill jobs

for graduates. Why not bring more of them into the Republic of Ireland,

encourage them to study there, where they are much closer to home and

more likely to return with the skills that they have required. It

is as much about quantity as quality? We need to look at

corporation tax so that we can create profit sectors. Let's hear

the thoughts. Let's take a look back at the political week that was in

the company of Stephen Walker. Northern Ireland met global

investors with open arms, but it was against the backdrop of two murders

investors with open arms, but it was and security alerts. These

dissidents appear to have stepped up their activities over the past

couple of days, obviously deliberately aimed at undermining

any positivity that might come out of this conference. One-woman's

story reignited the debate over abortion. We cannot ignore the

voices that are speaking in terms of the pain, the trauma and the

anxiety. I am very concerned that people report to me that they are

made to feel like beggars and in 2013 and there simply should not be

happening. And Martin McGuinness told us a

bedtime story. We were lucky enough that we were allocated the Queen 's

bedroom. I do not want you to tell anybody. But I had a little snooze

on her bed. Stephen Walker reporting. It has

been dubbed the British FBI and in England, Scotland and Wales it is

already tackling organised crime, child protection and cyber crime.

But the National Crime Agency will have limited powers here because

Sinn Fein and the SDLP block the legislation. The DUP is not happy

and they wanted implemented without fully. Dolores Kelly, the danger has

to be that Northern Ireland is no more vulnerable than it needs to be

in the face of international organised crime. I do not accept

that. I recognise that there needs to be greater coordination across

that. I recognise that there needs all of the different agencies and we

want to see a National Crime Agency operate here, but we wanted to do so

with the highest level of confidence from the public and the highest

level of transparency and indeed that it is fully accountable to the

policing board and that no operations can take place without

the agreement of the chief constable. Which is a separate

question from the one I asked you, that we are more vulnerable at the

Mormons? The chief constable has said that he gets the highest level

of confidence. We want the one secretary and others to listen and

also enable the legislation to be brought forward to give us what we

need to ensure that the highest level of confidence in policing is

continued into the future. You cannot have it both ways. We are

either more vulnerable at the moment and come under the wing of the NCA,

or we do not need the NCA. It will not take long to sort it out. It has

taken a very long time so far. People are not listening who ought

to be listening. The SDLP is not alone in this. If we look at the

wider debate, not just in the UK Government, with Yvette Cooper. We

have also had Hillary Clinton speaking recently and there is

have also had Hillary Clinton greater transparency being called

for in the USA. Thankfully we are democracy but it does seek to ensure

that the policing structures actually accountable and

operational. We need those democratic protections and

reassurances. Douglas Kelly hinting very strongly that perhaps people

like yourself are not listening -- Dolores Kelly. With respect, we have

worked with the chief constable and we have the greatest level of

accountability in any part of the UK. We will have a situation in

which the NCA will not have constable powers in Northern Ireland

and indeed on any NCA issue, the chief constable would be accountable

to him and the chief constable would be accountable to the board. But

what we are seeing, unfortunately, is a degree of outdated dogma from

Sinn Fein and the SDLP. But is it? We are in a situation where

organised crime has become increasingly sophisticated and is

moving beyond borders. Under range of issues, different child sex boy

to -- exploitation. This is making things difficult for criminals. That

is nothing that any sensible person would want to adopt it. I hope we

can find a solution. I think that the chief constable has the greatest

erect informant in the NCA of any chief constable in the UK -- the

greatest direct involvement. International fraud, cyber crime,

this is not about local police accountability, it is about the

bigger scale of international crime and at the moment not everyone is

happy that we are covered in the way that we should be. We have been

working with others to make sure that our concerns can be met. How do

you respond to the idea that it is outdated dogma? What is outdated is

a level of scrutiny required from the intelligence agencies with the

tools that are available to them. Hillary Clinton and Yvette Cooper

made that very clear. And the former intelligence director of MI5 and MI6

has said that there is a greater need for better intelligence

accountability across those security sectors. You have to take that

seriously. Dolores Kelly has says it is not about her being a national

list. With respect, I think it is about some people being speaks in

list. With respect, I think it is that regard. We need to tackle key

issues. If it is not brought in the fully in Northern Ireland it links

issues. If it is not brought in the us and with the online protection

Centre which is vital. That would be denied to Northern Ireland. The

danger from a Northern Ireland point of view is not simply that current

criminals are allowed to have an easier time, but we will be seen as

the weak link in the chain and we will see a situation in which

criminals will be coming to Northern Ireland, exploiting that situation

for their own ends. I cannot let you go without asking you about the

other issue of the week as far as your party is concerned. A High

Court ruling that a lifetime ban on gay men donating blood is a

rational. And a damning indictment of the way that Edwin Poots has

conducted himself. With respect, Edwin Poots will look at the

judgement. We have tried to provide the best possible health protection.

That has been at the forefront of what we have tried to do throughout

this. Completely out of line with the rest of the UK. There has been a

debate misinterpretation because there has been a range of... This

was the case until a few years ago. There are degrees of band... People

are concerned that the Minister has used his own prejudice in making

this decision. That is actually what people are concerned about. One has

to wonder what is the legal advice, the judges very clearly saying that

the minister acted outside of the framework. Thank you very much

indeed for coming in to join us. Patricia McBride and Paul Gosling

indeed for coming in to join us. are still with me. Patricia McBride,

indeed for coming in to join us. do you have reservations about where

we are? I am seriously concerned about the fact that ministers using

public funds to fund what appears to be his own religious or ethnic

agenda, not only the ban on gay men donating blood but also on adoption

and other issues. He made dispute it, but the evidence appears to

point in that direction. I think we need to have a cohesive policy which

is reasonable. We need to acknowledge the fact that blood

donation is vital to maintaining life here. The more donors that we

can have the better. There is no reason for this and that has been

shown both in the UK and in Ireland. There is no reason for this

ban. To see the obvious, we need to leave religion out of the centre of

politics in Northern Ireland because this seems to come out of a

politics in Northern Ireland because religious belief rather than a

rational decision-making process. I imagine as a former Victims'

Commissioner, we had the current Victims' Commissioner at Stormont

this week saying that victims are being made to feel like beggars by

the thick arms and survivors service which she says is not acceptable --

victims and survivors service. I think that Katherine Stone is

absolutely right in what she has said this week. Two years ago when

the establishment of the service was being discussed, my colleagues and I

warned ministers and officials around the model of assessment that

was being used. We said that the level of clinical assessment was not

appropriate for the needs of victims and survivors and had the capacity

to re-traumatised people. That seems to be what has happened in this

instance. But her position has been disputed. The level of assessment is

simply not appropriate to the needs of many victims and survivors who

need practical help and assistance, who do not need medical assessment

in order to be able to pay fuel who do not need medical assessment

bills for example. Is this something that you take an interest in?

Certainly. Northern Ireland is bogged down with his history but we

also need to deal with the trauma of victims. We need to deal with the

to Andrew. Ed Miliband reshuffled his

ministerial team this week with some commentators calling it the purge of

the Blairites, but one poor lamb who fell victim to this perch was Diane

Abbott, not somebody who worshipped at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on

the backbenches means she can pursue other interests such as attending

the Cheltenham literary Festival, and where she joins us now. Welcome.

Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He talked about message discipline. I

think the thing that did it for them was me coming out on Syria. This was

think the thing that did it for them a purge of the Blairites, how did

you become collateral damage? I have no idea but the fact that I was the

one member of the front bench to go public about my concerns on Syria

probably tipped my enemies in the party machinery over the edge. But

he went your way on Syria, in the end he agreed with your line on

Syria so why would that be for dismissal? I agree with you - you're

fired. Because I actually spoke up and it was the fact that I spoke up,

which was like a pebble falling in a forest or something. I am glad I

spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like people around them than who are

outspoken, who speak their minds? I think he's convinced he needs people

who read from the scripts. People get scripted and people were

increasingly upset that even though get scripted and people were

I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr

Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his

best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour

Party chose the right Miliband. I will remain loyal to him on the

backbenches. You're going to be loyal? However, I want to join in

the debate. You're going to be loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both

in public and private when others were bitching about him behind the

scenes. When it comes to policy, from the backbenches, I hope to be

involved in the debate particularly around nick policy. Et's see how

loyal you are. You must be happy with all this new tough talk on

welfare and free schools? Well, I think both Rachel and Tristram are

very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The

issue of free schools, they are one thing. But diminishing the role of

local authorities is another. There are a lot of group of childrens,

particularly with special needs, who need strong local authorities. I'm

particularly with special needs, who sure Tristram will be aware of that.

As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories

have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms

of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would

you? What are you on, and lieu? I haven't seen the detail of Rachel's

new position. You have to wait and see the detail. It is in the papers.

You haven't stopped reading the papers. It was the Observer. When

will you announce you're running for Mayor of London? I have no plans to

announce that I'm running for Mayor Mayor of London? I have no plans to

of London. No plans. That's what Michael his I will Tyne used to tell

me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the

same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know

you're going for it. I know you're going for it. Everybody knows you're

going for it. Just fess up to your old mate! ! I have no plans to run.

If you did run, who would be, what would be your biggest threat other

than yourself? I think there's a lot of very talented candidates, David

Lammy, Tessa Jowell, Sadiq Khan. They are all talented. I would have

to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of

getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of our

most loyal viewers of This Week and were taxi drivers and their wives.

I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if

you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love

This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love

you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy

chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is

what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this

great programme to go and do something else in politics. She

wanted to do something serious. She had taken what appeared to be a low

position but taken it extremely serious and was committed to the

issues. I'm quite disappointed for her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a

thing. You just mentioned about London mayor, did Diane not ask to

step down? No, she got fired. Someone who's an eminent person on

this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's

missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy

man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.

So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.

We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,

you're not insured for. That thanks for being with us.

Does she have a chance of being Mayor of London? She's very well

known as Michael pointed out. That is important. People who are outside

known as Michael pointed out. That the party fold have traditionally

done well in the mayoral election. The job of being a London mayor is

running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.

There may be problems with her campaign. We're agreed she is

running? That was a transparent bid for it. She's potentially a very

compelling Coll ticks. People have her down as a London Borough

left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said

he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What

do you think? I thing about Diane Abbott is she has a fantastic way of

connecting. She has a really good way of connecting wi people. She

would be a very strong candidate in the contest to be the Labour

candidate. It will probably be a Labour win next time. Depends, if

Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger

for Labour that Diane is the big personality liked by the party

activists that wins the party primary but isn't necessarily a shoe

in come the London general election? That's true. London is traditionally

a Labour city. But Boris managed to win as an outsider. There are big

dangers for Labour with that. I think, as I said before, somebody

who seems a bit independent from their own party machinery tend to do

well. Londoners respond to that. We've only had mayors so far that

were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing

than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't just stray on Syria, it was immigration.

Why was Jeremy brown replaced by Norman Baker at the Home Office?

This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those

people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into

coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there are

some holy areas of policy, sacred areas which they will defend. That

includes civil liberties. In the Home Office, that incident with the

immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went

down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home

Office it is crucial you have somebody there to put a shield on

that. We've had fun at his appointment, there's a proper

purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg has won the argument against the

left, Vince Cable on the economy, away day in July, briefings say

DrCable's been put in his box. He's won the argument on economic policy

against the left. When it comes to the touchstone issue in the Home

Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The

Guardian. This is important for Liberal Democrat voters. T's

something else going on which is that Nick Clegg has to keep his

parliamentary party happy. That involves giving them ministerial

jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats losing their jobs, Michael Moore,

Jeremy Browne, are Lunn lucky because vacancies have to be created

for number people to come in. By 2015 an astonishing number of

Liberal Democrat MPs will have been on the payroll. It is effective

party management. I want to move on to press regulation. Brian Leveson's

famous report, appeared before the parliamentary select committee. I

will run you a clip from Connor Burns, out of the Westminster

consensus. I bitterly regret politicians got involved in this. We

moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord

Leveson wanted a system the press took a lead on. Voluntary

self-regulation. This is state involvement which I worry about

profoundly. He sits on the media select committee which does

interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier

he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed

Royal Charter. I think he's totally wrong. I think he thinks they

should. But he did say they would. I think he's wrong. They won't sign

up. All the mood music when that Royal Charter was agreed on Friday

was they would not sign up. It is interesting that the Government,

Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't

sign up, the Royal charter will go ahead. I cannot control the Labour

sign up, the Royal charter will go Party and the Liberal Democrats.

What you might do, she's saying, the industry is wind the clock back to

what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,

Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory

regulation. Maria Miller says you may not like this sort of

regulation, stat industry -- statutory legislation but if you

don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing

the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.

Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't

work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was

going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers

now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route

and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will take

it to strains Bowring where freedom of the press is enshrined. They will

fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in

that. The big political question going forward is which of the party

leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press

regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband

the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian

Leveson. You appoint a judge who loves rules, anti-press, you

shouldn't be surprised with what you got in the Leveson report? I big

chunk of press will look at David Cameron saying, you were the guy who

opened this. You may not have intended what will happen. If he had

a majority Government he wouldn't have appointed Brian Leveson. If

they face more punitive fines over Labour ale cases they take that to

Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to

suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of

Human Rights. They'll have to suspend that. We must never come out

of the European Convention. suspend that. We must never come out

Churchill was behind it. He was indeed. But it is actually a major

constitutional issue whether you regulate the press or not. There was

constitutional issue whether you a lot of ill feeling that this Marie

ya miller statement was snubbing out on Friday afternoon. Somebody said

freedom of the press too important to sneak out on afully afternoon.

The whole subject should be treated with respect. We've run out of time.

I'll be back next Sunday with the Communities Secretary Eric Pickles

at our usual time of 11.00am. If Communities Secretary Eric Pickles

it's Sunday, it is the Sunday politics.