29/04/2012 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

In Northern Ireland: more arguments this week about exactly how much

paid the wealth -- the welfare reform will bring.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1679 seconds

Hello and welcome to Sunday politics in Northern Ireland. David

Cameron has been accused of not doing enough to help poorer people

in tough times, what more can our politicians do? Is there still a

chance to make changes and ease the pain some have warned is bound to

come? Also on the programme: The short

sittings and poor debates, R MLAs doing the business on the hill?

They are not doing anything else of scrutiny so the evidence shows no

work at all schedules for April and May. And we will have news of some

unwanted guests in the Department of Justice.

While the Social Development Minister has repeatedly cautioned

against breaking parity on the welfare bill, we have heard a lot

this week about the need to make changes to reflect the needs of

Northern Ireland. Are we a special case? You are very welcome to the

programme. Simon, have you been overly defensive about the

children's Commissioner's report this week? We recognise there are a

lot of people out there because of the economic downturn who were in

pain. For many that is compounded by the spectre of a welfare reform.

Trying to ease those concerns has not helped by this report. Its

evidential base is out of date and figures are included that the

Department for Social Development does not recognise where they have

come from. They would say they are from the website. They say they are

on the website or provided by the Department. There are figures that

are simply do not stack up. Some of the language is incredibly clumsy.

If you go to page 11 of the report it seems to suggest that the

Assembly should consider limiting the family size of those who on

benefits. I am sure that the Children's Commissioner who is

charged with protecting the rights of children would not be advocating

a Chinese style policy. What they are saying is that when it comes to

a 6th child, should benefit be withdrawn to try ended centre by

his people not to have huge families if they cannot afford it,

is it a bad idea? I think it is an outrageous decision -- suggestion

that the Assembly should social engineer families. I would call

upon the Children's Commissioner to come forward immediately and

clarify the status of this suggestion because it is an

outrageous suggestion and I would hope that the Children's

Commissioner who was meant to protect children would not advocate

such a position. What do you make of this report? Whether the

statistics are right or wrong, I think with our own eyes we can see

there are problems in society. I think we can see that austerity is

biting very hard on families. Families with one child, three

children, five children, six children... When it comes to big

families, should people make decisions, people who have plenty

of money make decisions all the time about their family size?

think everyone should make decisions about their family size

but it should not be legislated for. That is the key. People should have

the wisdom and common sense to recognise how many children are

they can adequately provide for. Rather than having more children

than they can provide for they should use, shall I use the term?

Restraint. It is not up to the Government to dictate how many

children a family should have a. Thank you very much. Sinn Fein --

Sinn Fein's Alex Laski chairs the commission, this is all about

parity. Do you fundamentally disagree with parity? This has been

used to kill off any discussion about the way we administer the

system of benefits. I understand Parity and it is a huge issue and I

cannot dismiss it. It is a big issue. There are some people who

would say that they agree with it so they are entitled to have that

view but not everyone shares that. It is not easy for you because

you're not in the social development committee, you are on

the committee but you do not hold the ministerial position. We have a

statutory responsibility as a scrutiny Committee. Across all of

the parties in the past year, I have chaired this committee in the

past year and we have taken a range of presentations. The commissioner

has the responsibility to bring forward reports, no matter what the

content is a. We have discussed with the trade union sector, we

have had presentations from a whole raft of organisation says... Lots

of people are really unhappy... Department themselves, last year,

gave us a figure and after the introduction of the new welfare

changes, that department quoted a figure of a reduction in the

overall money of �450 million. Others have written that figure to

more than 700 million. I would say to people let us deal with the fact.

Scrutiny committee only deal with facts and evidence and we will do

that robustly. What can you do for the people along watching today who

feel they will be badly hit, their children will end up being reduced

into a poverty situation, what can you do to make a difference to

them? Is the answer nothing? answer is not nothing and should

not be nothing. Parity should not be seen as, there is parity so

there was nothing we can do. There was a halt system to underpin this

new put -- reform. They are a raft of sanctions which are very

draconian so we are saying that if we do not have the same type of

housing stock as exists elsewhere, how can we penalise people for

having to live in a home that they cannot move out of, to something

more suitable for their family size? So we should not be capping

money for that and they should not be sanctions. We are looking at

areas of flexibility so we're trying to agree on a range of ways

in which we can do things Tiffany to meet the needs of people here.

What we know and everybody has agreed on this is that there will

be a significant reduction in the money available through the

benefits system. The benefits system is designed to support

people who were vulnerable, who fall out of any -- employment and

so one. That is a system which is a fail-safe mechanism. The benefit

levels are supposed to be at subsistence level. What we are

talking about here is �450 million being taken out. That means people

will lose money, family by family. Most of the changes we have heard

about so far I Nasir that -- methods of payment. It may not take

on board the payment to the head of household. Are we may pay directly

to the landlord in said of the tenant. That will not help people

who have mental health issues and will get their DLA cut. We have put

a fair amount of concentration into this. Some of these measures relate

to both departments and we are concerned that people who have

mental health issues, and we have a very high rate of that unfortunate

the... Are you satisfied they will not be targeted? It is probably

easier because if you have a broken leg you can see it, but a mental

health issue is not visible. There is sympathy towards that but no

more than that at this point in time. I have been the chair of this

committee in the past year and I have not raised it every week to

grab a headline that I have refused to do that. When the legislation

comes before you, what can you do? What fundamental differences can

you make? What we are doing at the executive level is we are looking

at areas of what we call flexibility. That will allow

agreement on what those flexibilities may actually be. How

can we administer the system better? How do you assess people

with mental health issues? We have a private company at the moment

that has been given a contract to assess people. They are not even

fully qualified medical professionals. We have had a long

argument about medical health practitioners and medical health

professionals, it is very difficult to work it out. We're interested in

the process by which people will be assessed for these particular

conditions and they have been a lot of problems around that. What we

will be looking for is how the system can be administered better

in the interests of people that we all represent here. We will

certainly be watching with interest. Thank you. Tomorrow the Assembly

will debate a DUP private member's motion about the Chancellor's plan

to limit tax relief on charitable donations. Since the executive has

no power, why is it being raised at Stormont? It will raise -- it will

use up some time during the plenary session. There are concerns that

MLAs are running out of things to to talk about. The Assembly is

adjourned. Monday's plenary at the Assembly ended after just four

hours. Members have had an early bath on several occasions recently.

It seems there's just not enough to talk about. This is a farce. We

turn up here two half days a week to discuss the notions and to fill

the time and try and put a face on But is the Assembly really so

unproductive? In the last mandate, 69 bills passed through and

received Royal Assent. Three of these were from private members.

Since the new Assembly began last summer, three bills have reached

Royal Assent. During the last mandate in Scotland,

53 bills were passed, but a larger proportion - a total of 13, came

from private members. In this parliament, two bills have reached

Royal Assent. We are not even a year into current

Assembly and things do take time to be drafted up, and given the

circumstances in NI there are more hurdles to be overcome and so

things tend to be slower. This Former Deputy Speaker agrees

that the recent lack of business is frustrating, and he has a possible

solution. I suppose one way of getting round this is reducing the

today's, Monday and Tuesday, two one-day and using that extra day

either for specific constituency business or even more importantly,

I think, committee business. In all legislatures it is the committee

business which is where the work is done really.

But according to a former senior official at the Assembly, the

committees aren't as busy as they could or should be, either. Half

the committees are not doing an inquiry at the moment. So few bills

at legislation in front of them. They are not doing any financial

scrutiny except the Personnel Committee. The evidence... Some of

the fall would work programmes shown no work at all schedules for

April and May. The L in MLA stands for legislative

and since there's not much in the way of actual legislation coming

through the executive, this would seem to be the perfect opportunity

for members to introduce their own bills. And that's what's happening

here today. The Green Party's Stephen Agnew is

launching a consultation on his proposed bill aimed at co-

ordinating children's services. should be judged in this Assembly

term by the end of it on what decisions have been passed and how

that legislation will improve life for people in Northern Ireland or

the governance of Northern Ireland. Beverages are sold in all

parliament out legs... Some observers feel the Assembly is

occasionally wasting their time on matters that might be worthy but

are now not pressing. While there is space for no other business,

people will select these because there is nothing else to discuss.

The absence of legislation creates a huge space for Mr. I thing the

Assembly is left feeling that there are full-time members of full-time

salaries doing full-time -- part- time jobs. What is the point in

tomorrow's motion when you have no power to change it? I think it is

important that from time to time and we bring forward the concerns

of their constituents. In this case it is charities that will have

concerns about the changes the rules and Westminster are having on

Northern Ireland. It is important we project our boys from the

Assembly on the national voice as well when it is appropriate. I

think it is unfair to criticise the Assembly because we have not passed

a lot of legislation. We have only been back in recession since last

year and legislation is not all we do. There is constituency work as

well as committee work and the committees are busy despite what he

said in nappies. Legislation is not the only way in which a minister

can act to improve lives of people in Northern Ireland. There are lots

of things going on. They have been over 100 questioned and fashions in

the Assembly and there have been 70 oral statements... People don't

expect their lives to change because they have locally

accountable government. It does not always require legislation to do

that. If you look at the piece on Scotland's, they have only had two

Bills pass this session and they do not have the problems that we have

in terms of the system. They have a one-party government and it should

be easier for them to get legislation through the system.

you go out and talk to people, how can you change the perception?

appreciate the perception is there and it is far from ideal what we

have. We are encumbered by the system we have. Because you have

ministries moving from one party to another, different ministers from

different parties will have different priorities and one

different legislation. The conclusion of legislation can take

two years. There is a lot of legislation in the pipeline and

what you will probably see is something similar to the last

session where towards the end there will be about 30 bills in the last

18 months. That is far from perfect but we have a different system and

we cannot move legislation as quickly as a majority government.

The perception is exactly as you have identified. This mandate

commenced one year ago. Part and parcel of the current problem is

the fact that if you cast your mind back, the programme for government

was not agreed until March of this year. That was 10 months later.

Within that ten-month period, what happened, we had a lock of talk

about things that did not affect the individual's life and

livelihood and how people go about their lives in Northern Ireland.

The First Minister during a debate on the publication on the programme

for government, that stated that what they wanted to do was change

people's lives. I am assuming that what they wanted to do was change

people's lives for the better. No one would suggest for a moment that

within the past 10 months anybody's life in Northern Ireland has been

changed for the better. We see everything going from bad to worse.

That is what the perception and the reality out on the streets is. That

is why people are becoming more and more disenchanted with politics...

In fairness we have had a missions in the past couple of weeks and we

are in tough economic times. What did I hear last week, people were

saying, what are they talking in the Assembly? They have a 10 - --

they have entertained some monks and some sheikhs. It is perception.

They do not seek delivery. If you do not have a programme of

government for 10 months and remember what a programme of

government is meant to be, it is the context of setting the Budget

and the context in which you set your economic strategy if you have

one and two investment strategy. Everything has been done, cart

before horse. When you're in the Assembly, it was more than down --

down and that. There was very little time to do anything because

Assembly was collapsing (centre. It think it is unfair to characterise

everything that is going on as being an interesting. We were

debating health and security issues. These are important people. We are

trying our best to turn this country around. The point is that

it is not giving delivery. system that we have is a very

difficult system and it is distinct and different from elsewhere.

have to leave it there, we are completely out of time. Thank you

very much indeed. And now for a look at the political headlines in

60 seconds. The Attorney-General told the High

Court why he is prosecuting Peter Hain over his memoir.

That organisation responsible for regenerating Londonderry faced

questions about irregular spending. I am confident we will deal with

what is going on. We got it wrong and we will put it right.

The IRA murders of senior I r -- RUC officers were authorised by

Martin McGuinness has been rejected. I certainly would not be giving my

opinion that you will go home with no money. Staying with four legs,

we have heard of unwanted guests in the Justice Department. Rats,

vermin, to have their money through a place of work and the damage and

debt that it brings, is not very pleasant at all and is is something

that the Department want to get to grips with very quickly.

A certain irony in the politicians in Dublin discussing conflict

resolution and yet we have had some security alert some problems here.

I was in Dublin yesterday at the rugby with thousands of people from