05/05/2013 Sunday Politics Scotland


05/05/2013

Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr with analysis of the local election results, including interviews with Grant Shapps and Saddiq Khan, and what next for UKIP with Godfrey Bloom.


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LineFromTo

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

:00:35.:00:37.

The so-called clowns had the last laugh in Thursday's local elections

:00:37.:00:41.

and now claim to be changing the shape of British politics. We'll be

:00:41.:00:47.

asking what next for Nigel Farage's UKIP. Where next for David Cameron?

:00:47.:00:51.

He's talking to a lot of men in white coats. Means they must all

:00:51.:00:54.

have gone to Eton. We'll get the thoughts of former party Chairman,

:00:54.:00:59.

David Davis. And how did young Edward fair?

:00:59.:01:02.

Average. And must do better, say some Labour folk. We'll be asking

:01:02.:01:08.

one of his biggest supporters why And coming up on Sunday Politics

:01:08.:01:11.

Scotland: What would Scotland stand to gain or lose on an international

:01:11.:01:14.

stage in the event of a "yes" vote in next year's independence

:01:14.:01:24.
:01:24.:01:24.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1785 seconds

:01:24.:31:10.

There are not many people with a coal miner in the Cabinet. The idea

:31:10.:31:15.

is that we get people in improvement in the country through

:31:15.:31:19.

the passion that we have. Let us see what we're in a couple of

:31:19.:31:25.

years' time. How did Labour fear? Not as well as they might have

:31:26.:31:34.

hoped. Labour picked up 291 council seats. That is only winning back

:31:34.:31:40.

what they lost in 2009. That was when Gordon Brown was very

:31:40.:31:46.

unpopular. That translated into gains in just two county councils.

:31:46.:31:51.

That was Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire. They hoped to take

:31:51.:31:57.

Staffordshire but that was dashed. They fell well short of the 350

:31:57.:32:05.

seats predicted. Some said that they should have won on the basis

:32:05.:32:10.

of local by-election promises. The national vote share was 29%. That

:32:10.:32:19.

is 9% down from 2012. Only the same as their actual results in 2010.

:32:19.:32:26.

On this project at national share of the vote, Labour polled 29%.

:32:26.:32:33.

That is what Gordon Brown got in 2010. Those results in at 2010 were

:32:33.:32:40.

for the entire country. No elections in Scotland, only

:32:40.:32:46.

Anglesey in Wales, no elections in London that is what we have been

:32:46.:32:52.

those percentages today. We did remarkable things in Government

:32:52.:33:00.

between 2007 and 2010. But we lost tens of thousands of members. We

:33:00.:33:06.

lost thousands of activists. We lost thousands of councillors. We

:33:06.:33:12.

were hollowed out by 2010. We tried to rebuild. We persuaded new

:33:12.:33:17.

members to become activists and to stand for a council in shire

:33:17.:33:25.

elections were historically we have done very well. You gained 200 and

:33:25.:33:34.

windy -- 291 this week. You have just came back the losses that you

:33:34.:33:38.

lost in one of the biggest losses in Labour's history. You have to

:33:38.:33:43.

remember that you have to build back from the hollow out. We had no

:33:43.:33:50.

ministers and some of these areas. We recruited a new members. We lost

:33:50.:33:55.

MPs in 2010. We turned members into activists and persuaded them to

:33:55.:33:59.

stand for council elections and had remarkable gains. We won

:33:59.:34:05.

councillors in seats that we are looking for it in at 2015. We did

:34:05.:34:13.

well in Stevenage, Carlisle, Crawley, we were in Lincoln. We're

:34:13.:34:20.

wanting to win backing these areas in 2015. He did well in the South

:34:20.:34:29.

and you did reasonably well in others. -- you did well in some

:34:29.:34:34.

areas, but all West Sussex and some areas of the South you didn't even

:34:34.:34:42.

come second, you came third. With respect, Andrew, we have over run

:34:42.:34:51.

these councils. You came third! Look at Harlow. Look how we did in

:34:51.:34:57.

Stevenage. We won seats in Dorset, for God's sake, he's a shire

:34:57.:35:02.

council elections. For a so-called One nation party you came third in

:35:02.:35:10.

some of these areas. People have been recruited since May 2010 and

:35:10.:35:14.

have been persuaded to become active and stand and they have won.

:35:14.:35:21.

You didn't even do that well in the North. In 1981 you want lots under

:35:21.:35:29.

Michael Foot. Under Ed Miliband did not win a lot of those. If the

:35:29.:35:32.

lesson you are trying to teach me is that it is good to have

:35:32.:35:39.

superficial winds in county council elections, that is not true. --

:35:39.:35:44.

superficial winds. We have new policies that can persuade people

:35:44.:35:49.

to get lost trust in 2015. If you look at the results on Thursday,

:35:49.:35:55.

where we needed to do well, we did remarkably well. We would have

:35:55.:35:59.

liked to have won more seats, but to have this one term and have

:35:59.:36:03.

these games we're very pleased. Miliband claims that the centre is

:36:03.:36:10.

moving left and he is moving with it. These elections give no grounds

:36:10.:36:16.

for that belief. And it Ed Miliband you were out of touch with public

:36:16.:36:26.

opinion. The reality is, the vote for UKIP wasn't just moving right.

:36:26.:36:31.

You were four points ahead. there are elections in Scotland,

:36:31.:36:36.

Wales, and in London. I except that we have to do better than we are.

:36:36.:36:40.

But the reason that people voted for UKIP was because people think

:36:40.:36:45.

that politicians have the answer is there it for the problems that they

:36:45.:36:49.

face. They can see that their wages are not rising as fast as their

:36:49.:36:54.

inflation is going. We're persuading people who vote and do

:36:54.:36:57.

not vote that we can make a positive difference to their life.

:36:57.:37:01.

I think Ed Miliband has shown in the last two years that he can do

:37:01.:37:09.

that. Can you just clarify it, you will not offer an in or out

:37:09.:37:18.

referendum on Europe? We think... Will you offer a referendum between

:37:18.:37:23.

now and the next election? That is way above Mike pay grade to draft a

:37:23.:37:30.

manifesto for at 2015. I can say that in May 2013 will were not -

:37:30.:37:37.

but we will not be promising a referendum. I am asking if you will

:37:37.:37:44.

offer a referendum between now and the general election, yes or no?

:37:44.:37:50.

Above my pay grade. You're in the shadow Cabinet. I cannot see what

:37:50.:37:54.

will be in the manifesto, but I can see just like that that it -- David

:37:54.:38:00.

Cameron, it is foolish of Alex Salmond to say that he would have

:38:00.:38:10.
:38:10.:38:12.

that referendum. It beats to uncertainty and it is madness.

:38:12.:38:22.
:38:22.:38:23.

is 11:30pm. You're watching The Hello and welcome to Sunday

:38:23.:38:29.

Politics Scotland. Coming up on the programme:

:38:29.:38:32.

Scotland's role on the world stage - an independent voice in the

:38:32.:38:35.

community of nations or staying part of the UK power base, maybe

:38:35.:38:42.

with an increased role? We will debate what we could gain or lose.

:38:42.:38:46.

We will look at how Scotland can help its farmers.

:38:46.:38:49.

And enter the clowns and fruitcakes - UKIP have the last laugh as their

:38:49.:38:52.

political opponents eat their words, but could their English election

:38:52.:38:56.

earthquake be felt here in Scotland?

:38:56.:38:59.

There are just 500 days left until the big decision on Scotland's

:38:59.:39:03.

future. Much of the debate this week has been on international

:39:03.:39:06.

affairs. If it is a "no", Scotland would continue to be represented in

:39:06.:39:10.

the world as part of the UK. A "yes" vote would mean Scotland

:39:10.:39:13.

speaking for itself. Would Scotland lose its diplomatic clout or would

:39:14.:39:16.

it gain from having its own voice? Glenn Campbell has been taking

:39:17.:39:26.
:39:27.:39:30.

soundings at the United Nations in Scotland is good at making a big

:39:30.:39:38.

noise in the Big Apple at least once a year. The annual Tartan Day

:39:38.:39:43.

parade brings a touch of Caledonian colour to 6th Avenue. But if there

:39:43.:39:49.

was a "yes" vote Scotland would need to make itself heard in New

:39:49.:39:54.

York. And that would be all year round. They would be a member of

:39:54.:39:59.

the United Nations. How would Scollan secure its own voice and

:39:59.:40:07.

its own fault here? Scotland would be very welcome at the un. It is

:40:07.:40:14.

highly in favour of self- determination. -- UN. If it is

:40:15.:40:19.

consensual. I do not see trouble in that, but it is a process that

:40:19.:40:27.

needs to be gone through. They should be backing to smooth the

:40:27.:40:33.

path towards a vote. Two-thirds of countries would need to support it.

:40:33.:40:40.

With the approval of other countries Scotland would become the

:40:40.:40:44.

world's 194th seed. It would sit next to Saudi Arabia and its

:40:44.:40:52.

nearest neighbour Senegal. That is where it would be alphabetically,

:40:52.:40:58.

but how would it established itself diplomatically? It would need to

:40:58.:41:02.

form alliances and partnerships, even the UK cannot do without those.

:41:02.:41:07.

The impact that the UK has would be lost to Scotland but Scotland would

:41:07.:41:12.

be speaking with the voice of Scotland. It would have to

:41:12.:41:17.

establish the impact through the performance of its individuals at

:41:17.:41:21.

the High Representative level, that's very important. So small

:41:21.:41:31.

countries need big hitters. The man who represents Europe's newest UN

:41:31.:41:37.

member is this man. We must recognise realities and to be

:41:37.:41:43.

realistic. We need to have in mind our national priorities and the

:41:43.:41:49.

strategies. Then you have to select. Any country can apply for a stint

:41:49.:41:57.

on the most powerful body. Here on the security panel, United Kingdom

:41:57.:42:03.

is one of a small number with a presence. Here at the veto

:42:03.:42:06.

decisions on War and Peace. In the event of Scottish independence, be

:42:06.:42:11.

UK Government says it would continue to occupy its seat here.

:42:11.:42:16.

But if that is legally accurate, we did also be politically acceptable

:42:16.:42:23.

to other countries? -- would it. That would depend on the nuclear

:42:24.:42:28.

submarine fleet being kept by David Cameron it in the event of Scottish

:42:28.:42:33.

independence. Foreign affairs committees say that the UK's place

:42:33.:42:38.

in the international order would be questioned. Otherwise this seasoned

:42:38.:42:44.

observer thinks that the UK would keep its clout. Some would say that

:42:44.:42:52.

Britain has changed, but in the case of the Soviet Union and Russia,

:42:52.:43:02.
:43:02.:43:02.

Russia all these they became a smaller entity, -- all fiercely,

:43:02.:43:07.

but I think the President is there and sit. As long as you were the

:43:07.:43:13.

official holder of bats eat it is your has no matter what you sizes.

:43:13.:43:23.
:43:23.:43:26.

-- of that seat. Mb -- in the event of independence Scotland would be

:43:26.:43:32.

the newest member. And it would be the challenge to make its own way

:43:32.:43:40.

in the world. Joining me now from our Edinburgh

:43:40.:43:43.

studio is the former leader of the Liberal Democrats Sir Mingis

:43:43.:43:45.

Campbell, a member of Westminster's Foreign Affairs Committee who co-

:43:45.:43:49.

wrote this week's report. And with me in the studio is one of the

:43:49.:43:51.

SNP's members of the European Parliament, Alyn Smith. He has

:43:51.:43:54.

lectured in Europe's capitals about the role of an independent Scotland

:43:54.:44:02.

on the world stage. Alyn Smith, it you recognise that the UK gets to

:44:02.:44:09.

inherit everything? Do you think Scotland would say it was a Co

:44:09.:44:16.

equal state? I think there is a matter of debate but we are no new

:44:16.:44:21.

thing in regards the United Nations. We are also an ancient democracy

:44:22.:44:26.

and nation. We are re-establishing ourselves within the world

:44:26.:44:30.

environment. This is as getting into the United Nations as Scotland,

:44:30.:44:34.

as ourselves. When you talk about Scotland becoming independent and

:44:34.:44:41.

having a long history of being an independent nation, the agreement

:44:41.:44:49.

was that we were Co people states in the beginning. Scotland is the

:44:50.:44:55.

new entity as regards the United Nations. We're fighting for that in

:44:55.:44:59.

the referendum. The cities of the UK in the eyes of other people as a

:44:59.:45:06.

matter for the UK, not us. He seems quite relaxed about the United

:45:06.:45:10.

Nations. How do you think it would proceed? But his effort was to

:45:10.:45:16.

become independence. I think everybody is quite relaxed about

:45:16.:45:21.

successful membership of the United Nations for Scotland. The body of

:45:21.:45:25.

opinion expressed in that package seems pretty clear that the rest of

:45:25.:45:29.

the United Kingdom would maintain the position of a permanent member

:45:29.:45:36.

of the Security Council with that important right of veto. But I do

:45:36.:45:41.

not think the United Nations would be the problem. As our report

:45:41.:45:50.

represents areas contrary reports to the SNP. Where there might be a

:45:50.:45:55.

fast track for or negotiation, there is no certainty that there

:45:55.:46:03.

would be a fast track for Accession. Many people in the business

:46:03.:46:12.

community believe it could be damaging to Scotland's interests. A

:46:12.:46:18.

report is based on written evidence. You will find it all on page 62.

:46:18.:46:23.

Some very distinguished professors of international relations and Lord

:46:23.:46:28.

who came and gave witness. Including Jeremy Greenstock who we

:46:28.:46:34.

saw in that package a moment or two ago. Let us stick with Pete UN

:46:34.:46:43.

right now. -- with the UN right now. Do you not think it could provoke a

:46:43.:46:48.

groundswell of opinion at the UN that the Security Council should be

:46:48.:46:54.

reformed? France and Britain -- and the UK might need to give that seat

:46:54.:47:00.

up. The question of reform of the Security Council has been on the

:47:01.:47:07.

agenda since 1988. It never gets to the top of the agenda. A new

:47:07.:47:12.

Security Council hat -- should have at 23 or 22 members. Any

:47:12.:47:16.

constitutional change in the Charter of the United Nations would

:47:16.:47:21.

depend on the United Kingdom's agreement. It remains a member of

:47:21.:47:25.

the Security Council, so we do not see agreement being reached that

:47:25.:47:28.

would have the effect of excluding the United Kingdom from that

:47:28.:47:34.

position. Looking at the SNP's position, despite the talk about

:47:34.:47:42.

Iraq and so-called legal war its -- wore as, giving that up would mean

:47:42.:47:48.

that the rest of the UK would not be able to match what the rest of

:47:48.:47:55.

the UK does anyway. We would be able to set our own priorities and

:47:55.:47:59.

articulate the more on the world stage. The idea that the UK is also

:47:59.:48:03.

acting in our interests is not the case, I do not think. In Brussels

:48:03.:48:08.

and see that the UK line and attitude is markedly different to

:48:08.:48:13.

her Scotland would do this. Just last week Our Home Secretary, and

:48:13.:48:16.

she is Our Home Secretary, flirted with the idea of getting rid of

:48:16.:48:23.

human rights. The idea that the UK it is representing, I do not think

:48:23.:48:29.

it is a failed state, but I do think we could do it better. Do you

:48:29.:48:34.

think it could be done better with than the United Kingdom? The report

:48:34.:48:38.

suggests an increased role for Scotland on the international stage

:48:38.:48:43.

but remembering -- but remaining part of the United Kingdom. I would

:48:43.:48:47.

say that that is delusional. International relations is binary,

:48:47.:48:51.

you are a member state or you were not. You can do all sorts of things

:48:51.:48:55.

with devolution, but the fact is, door at the top table or you were

:48:55.:48:59.

not. The whole point about independence is that we get to set

:48:59.:49:03.

our priorities and articulate them in various corners of the world.

:49:03.:49:10.

The UN needs reform, of Eastleigh, but we cannot put forward any of

:49:10.:49:19.

these points as anything but an independent state. With Labour, or

:49:19.:49:23.

Liberal Democrats and the SNP have increased the role of Scotland on

:49:23.:49:29.

the world stage. Absolutely and that will continue. Scotland has

:49:29.:49:33.

always been distinctive. But since the reforms of 1999, we have been

:49:33.:49:38.

able to give voice to that different politics. The more that

:49:38.:49:41.

continues and the more different we become, if we're on the right path.

:49:41.:49:47.

This is pretty much unstoppable. How much of this we did you have

:49:47.:49:52.

been putting that point in about increasing the role of Scotland's

:49:52.:49:58.

voice through the prism of the UK diplomatic affairs, a kind of

:49:58.:50:03.

federal structure when it comes to the international stage? I chaired

:50:03.:50:05.

a commission on behalf of the Liberal Democrats which made

:50:05.:50:11.

exactly that point. It was about the possibility of a federal

:50:11.:50:14.

relationship but when Scotland and the rest of United Kingdom. And

:50:14.:50:19.

also the possibility of an overall federal solution for the United

:50:19.:50:29.
:50:29.:50:29.

Kingdom's. But the reference to the board has, they were heavily

:50:30.:50:35.

affected to by the introduction of quotas. That is in America. It was

:50:35.:50:42.

all problem about cashmere goods. The reason that that was headed off

:50:42.:50:46.

was because the United Kingdom was able to go to the European Union

:50:46.:50:54.

and the strength of both bodies at the World Trade Organisation made

:50:54.:51:00.

sure that Scotland did not suffer - - which it would have done much

:51:00.:51:10.
:51:10.:51:33.

Let's that put that 0.2 Alan Smith. How would Scotland Act on the world

:51:33.:51:40.

stage? You always have to select your key issues but it is a very

:51:40.:51:48.

crowded marketplace. Look at the way we have been able to lead by

:51:48.:51:53.

example in terms of leading -- setting world leading climate

:51:53.:52:01.

change targets. You set your priorities and build alliances. She

:52:01.:52:05.

speaks about the EU intervening on or a half but we still have that as

:52:05.:52:10.

the Scottish member of the European Union. That is about what our

:52:10.:52:16.

priorities are and how we determine them and articulate them. Many

:52:16.:52:21.

smaller countries than us around Europe. Talk to them about

:52:21.:52:24.

independence and the just understand it. What we're going to

:52:24.:52:30.

debate and vote on and 2014 is that we can do this better. I do not

:52:30.:52:35.

think the UK is a failed state but we could do an awful lot better.

:52:35.:52:39.

could do a lot better than smaller states could move more quickly and

:52:39.:52:46.

focus on key issues? You will not be surprised to hear me say, not

:52:46.:52:50.

for the first time, that I think we are better together, but I think it

:52:50.:52:59.

might give us the influence of a state like Cyprus or Slovenia,

:53:00.:53:09.
:53:10.:53:11.

which I think detracts from the influence of the United Kingdom.

:53:11.:53:19.

The United Kingdom has a very sophisticated network of posts and

:53:19.:53:22.

ambassadors around the world. Scotland would not have access to

:53:22.:53:27.

that. When you take the issue of something like Scotch whisky and

:53:27.:53:32.

the importance of ensuring that is not subject to tariffs which make

:53:32.:53:38.

it difficult to export, then it is that over all diplomatic influence

:53:38.:53:44.

and a nationally which will serve us best. It will be a long time

:53:44.:53:53.

before it reaches the peak status of Whitehall. Thank you both.

:53:53.:53:55.

Scottish farmers have been left suffering by the atrocious weather

:53:55.:53:58.

conditions The NFU say almost 34,000 dead sheep had to be

:53:58.:54:01.

collected from the hills after the winter storms. This comes after the

:54:01.:54:04.

miserable, wet summer. As Laura Maxwell reports, a �6 million aid

:54:04.:54:14.
:54:14.:54:14.

package has been announced by the Scottish government.

:54:14.:54:21.

March 2012, and spring was picture- perfect. Temperatures soared to 23

:54:21.:54:27.

Celsius. March 2013 was a different picture with blizzards bringing

:54:27.:54:32.

down phone lines and cutting of entire communities four days.

:54:33.:54:38.

got up to another group just further up... Its in the claim

:54:38.:54:44.

clear of their where other victims were animals buried alive.

:54:44.:54:52.

Thousands of young lambs and sheep were lost. We are unable to get to

:54:52.:54:58.

most of these chic. My losses and in the region of 200 or 250 lambs.

:54:58.:55:04.

It is huge financially. Even before the snow thought, the Government

:55:04.:55:09.

promised have a million pounds to help remove dead livestock from the

:55:09.:55:15.

hills, and this week �6 million worth of aid has been announced

:55:15.:55:21.

targeted at those affected by the recent snow. We can meet in the

:55:21.:55:29.

coming days to look at how we can help the rest of the sector. The

:55:29.:55:32.

cost may be into tens of millions of pounds but we're still measuring

:55:32.:55:37.

the cost of the impact of the weather. It comes at the end of

:55:37.:55:43.

what has been a very difficult year. There was bricked in the Western

:55:43.:55:48.

Isles, sandstorms have covered fields, and in the Borders flooding.

:55:48.:55:54.

The weather has piled on the pressure. For most, the continual

:55:54.:55:59.

rain has been the overriding problem ruining many crops last

:55:59.:56:06.

year and making sewing this year very tricky. It has been totally

:56:06.:56:13.

impossible here to so any cereals. You always hope it will be a good

:56:13.:56:17.

year next year and that keep you going but it invariably is not. You

:56:17.:56:23.

are always hoping for. 2013 has been at devastating year for some

:56:23.:56:31.

of Scotland's livestock farmers and it is not looking much better for

:56:31.:56:35.

their arable counterparts. It is a waiting game to see if it will warm

:56:35.:56:40.

up and the rain will stop for warm enough for Scotland's farmers to

:56:40.:56:43.

see any signs of growth. I'm now joined in the studio by Nigel

:56:44.:56:51.

Miller, President of the National Farmers Union in Scotland. You are

:56:51.:56:57.

a farmer yourself, what has it been a like for you? You a piece was a

:56:57.:57:02.

very good overview of the climate and this has been that the Perfect

:57:02.:57:09.

Storm but it has gone on for I year and it has impacted on every sector.

:57:09.:57:13.

We did a survey in the winter and even then we knew it was bad,

:57:13.:57:19.

probably more than 80% of farmers had 20% less fodder than usual and

:57:19.:57:26.

when it came to winter crops, 30% had not managed to sow their usual

:57:26.:57:34.

quota. That was not a good position to be in with money running out. We

:57:34.:57:41.

had to renegotiate. A pretty difficult year and then going into

:57:41.:57:47.

2013, probably the coldest March on records. They're really

:57:47.:57:50.

overwhelming storm for a couple of days and then a difficult April as

:57:50.:57:59.

well. 2013 will not be a good year whatever we do now. We heard in the

:57:59.:58:02.

report the �6 million aid package from the Scottish government. How

:58:02.:58:08.

will you ensure that is targeted at the people that need it most?

:58:08.:58:12.

a lifeline and hopefully a bridge to help people get to the summer

:58:12.:58:19.

weather. The figures and the last few days say that of a 700 million

:58:19.:58:23.

has been stepped out in the UK terms, so it is not a huge amount

:58:23.:58:28.

of money but we think if we can target those businesses and farmers

:58:29.:58:33.

that have taken significant hits, and this is the kind of farm that

:58:33.:58:38.

might have lost 30% of their potential production, we can pause

:58:38.:58:41.

the spiralled downwards to give them a platform to become

:58:41.:58:51.

stabilised. These businesses will not begin to recover until 2014.

:58:51.:58:55.

the �6 million proportionate to what Scottish farmers contribute?

:58:55.:59:05.
:59:05.:59:07.

In many ways, we have a very close relationship with the land. A big

:59:07.:59:12.

part of the economy, we underpin the biggest manufacturing sector,

:59:12.:59:19.

food, and that generates millions of exports. It is very important

:59:19.:59:23.

and I think the Government has recognised that importance and the

:59:23.:59:26.

partnership the Government has with the food sector and farming shows

:59:26.:59:32.

how important it is to maintain, not just for food security but also

:59:32.:59:39.

to develop our industry and exports. It has been a sad and difficult

:59:39.:59:45.

time for farmers, perhaps difficult to detach yourself emotionally, but

:59:45.:59:50.

it is heavily subsidised. Many in this these would look on and say

:59:50.:59:57.

you received a lot of government support, is that there? This is the

:59:57.:00:01.

comet that comes up fairly often and the reality is the whole of

:00:02.:00:07.

Europe supports us quite heavily. They do it in different ways and it

:00:07.:00:12.

is about underpinning a core part of production. It is one thing that

:00:12.:00:17.

is vital for the whole of life and we are looking at doubling food

:00:17.:00:23.

needs over the next 20 years and that is extraordinary. Unless we

:00:23.:00:27.

look after the basic structure, we are going to find that food

:00:27.:00:31.

security becomes not just something we talk about but something that

:00:31.:00:37.

actually impacts on us every day. The Scottish government is setting

:00:37.:00:43.

up a working group with the industry. What might be discuss?

:00:43.:00:47.

That will be on Wednesday and it will be about targeting money to

:00:47.:00:55.

actually identify the ad is we know that the storms hit. We are also

:00:55.:00:58.

looking at other parts of Scotland where we know there have been

:00:58.:01:04.

significant issues. The mental health of farmers as critical as

:01:04.:01:10.

well? I have had a lot of members on the phone and these sort of

:01:10.:01:15.

losses are not easy to handle on the last year has not been easy.

:01:15.:01:20.

With the financial pressure, it is not easy and one of the telling

:01:20.:01:24.

factors is knowing that it is difficult going out and having to

:01:24.:01:29.

work until 10pm at night and being unsure. This package is a lifeline

:01:29.:01:39.
:01:39.:01:41.

for people like that. Now time for the news.

:01:41.:01:45.

Nigel Evans, the deputy Speaker of the House of Commons has said that

:01:45.:01:50.

allegations of sexual assault against him are completely false.

:01:50.:01:54.

He was released on bail last night after being questioned by police

:01:54.:02:01.

for several hours. Nigel Evans was questioned until

:02:01.:02:04.

late last night by police and emerged from his home this morning

:02:04.:02:09.

to a make this statement. I was interviewed by the police

:02:09.:02:13.

concerning two complaints, one of which dates back four years, made

:02:13.:02:18.

by two people who are well known to each other and who until yesterday

:02:19.:02:23.

I regarded as friends. The complaints are completely false and

:02:23.:02:28.

they cannot understand why they have been made especially as I have

:02:28.:02:33.

continued to socialise with one as recent play as last week. He was

:02:33.:02:38.

arrested yesterday and questioned on suspicion of sexual assault. The

:02:38.:02:41.

alleged victims are said to be men in their twenties and he was

:02:41.:02:47.

released on bail. He was selected as MP for Ribble Valley back in

:02:47.:02:54.

1992. He was elected as deputy Speaker in 2010. In the same year,

:02:54.:03:00.

he came out as gay saying he did not want another light. His

:03:00.:03:02.

colleague Philip Harman said a decision would have to be made

:03:02.:03:11.

about his future. We should treat people as innocent until proven

:03:11.:03:15.

guilty but it is difficult to carry out a high profile role under the

:03:15.:03:20.

scrutiny. He says he will not be standing down and says it is

:03:20.:03:26.

business as usual. The chairman of the BBC Trust has

:03:26.:03:30.

rejected calls for a separate inquiry into the activities of

:03:30.:03:37.

Stuart Hall at the BBC. He has admitted indecently assaulting 13

:03:37.:03:43.

girls from the 1960s until the 1980s. Lord Patten said that

:03:43.:03:46.

concerns about his behaviour could be dealt with by an inquiry already

:03:46.:03:56.
:03:56.:03:59.

been carried out by the BBC. Plainly, there was something about

:03:59.:04:04.

the celebrity culture in the 1960s and 1980s which meant people turned

:04:04.:04:09.

a blind eye to behaviour that was thoroughly unpleasant.

:04:10.:04:13.

Syrian state television said the scientific research centre has been

:04:13.:04:19.

hit by an Israeli missile strike. People in the area report hearing a

:04:19.:04:26.

massive explosion over night. What more do we know about this. There

:04:26.:04:31.

is very little hard information but what we can say fairly clearly is

:04:31.:04:35.

that there was at least one enormous explosion on the north-

:04:35.:04:43.

west edge of the city of Damascus. That is shown in footage posted on

:04:43.:04:48.

the internet by activists. The question is what was actually hit.

:04:48.:04:58.

The Syrian regime are saying it was a technical research institute.

:04:58.:05:07.

They are saying that the different kinds of targets were hit. That

:05:07.:05:12.

would be a bit surprising because Israel does not want to get

:05:12.:05:19.

involved in the conflict. They want to prevent arms from being handed

:05:19.:05:23.

over are coming through it and ran. What they're seeing off the record

:05:23.:05:29.

is there going for rockets and missiles that there may what to

:05:29.:05:34.

pass to his bluff. We are in the dark over what was actually hit.

:05:34.:05:38.

There is duty showing what they say were targets there but it includes

:05:38.:05:42.

things like chicken farms and some installations were not shown very

:05:42.:05:52.
:05:52.:06:03.

A former UK ambassador has told this programme that Scotland would

:06:03.:06:08.

be welcome as a member state to the United Nations but it would have to

:06:08.:06:15.

find its own way. Jeremy Greenstock said that the impact would be lost

:06:15.:06:19.

to an independent Scotland that it has with the UK. It would be to

:06:19.:06:24.

form alliances. The impact that the UK has would be lost to Scotland

:06:24.:06:29.

but Scotland would be speaking with the voice of Scotland, it would

:06:29.:06:33.

have the Scottish label. Impact would have to be established

:06:33.:06:38.

through the performance of its individuals at a high

:06:38.:06:46.

representative level. Two women died in a car crash yesterday.

:06:46.:06:53.

They died at the scene of this car crash near Ely. One boy and one man

:06:53.:06:58.

were also travelling by a car or and taken to hospital with serious

:06:58.:07:02.

injuries. The boy was then taken to the Southern General hospital by

:07:02.:07:07.

air ambulance in Glasgow. There were three games in the a SPL this

:07:07.:07:12.

afternoon. Celtic's game is getting under way

:07:12.:07:22.
:07:22.:07:29.

now., Nick play host to Hibernian. It will be cloudy across western

:07:29.:07:34.

Scotland. Rain will be light and patchy but become more persistent

:07:34.:07:39.

two words North Argyll later. The best of the sunshine is in eastern

:07:39.:07:45.

Scotland. Here we will see the highest temperatures, up to 18 or

:07:45.:07:51.

19 Celsius. It is quite mild but also breezy especially along the

:07:51.:08:01.
:08:01.:08:03.

West coast. We will be back at 650 Thanks, Graham.

:08:03.:08:06.

It was the revenge of the "clowns and fruitcakes", as UKIP's

:08:06.:08:08.

political opponents had characterised them. A powerful

:08:08.:08:10.

showing at this week's English local government elections means

:08:10.:08:13.

the party's influence is on the increase, down south at least. But

:08:13.:08:16.

what about the indirect impact in Scotland of UKIP's success story?

:08:16.:08:24.

Our political correspondent Niall This one celebrated, the

:08:24.:08:30.

Westminster mainstream were drowning their sorrows. UKIP's

:08:30.:08:34.

success made Nigel Farage the toast of his party. It left the Tories

:08:34.:08:40.

and Lib Dems crying into their beer. Instalment date struggle to make an

:08:40.:08:44.

impression. -- in Scotland they have struggled to make an

:08:44.:08:52.

impression. UKIP regularly finished last, in Edinburgh one of their

:08:52.:08:56.

candidates did as well as this pink when. Does that mean that Scottish

:08:56.:09:02.

people are up more pro-Europe than those down south? I don't think

:09:02.:09:12.
:09:12.:09:12.

there's the same antipathy to words the EU. We're not so worried about

:09:12.:09:18.

the loss of English identity. There is an anti-European view in

:09:18.:09:24.

Scotland but it is not one that UKIP are able to tap into. They

:09:24.:09:29.

want independent from Europe, not independence in Europe. They say

:09:29.:09:32.

that their numbers are at increasing its column because of

:09:32.:09:36.

disillusionment with Alex Salmond and the SNP. He would like people

:09:36.:09:40.

to think that we're going to govern our own country, but he is going to

:09:40.:09:47.

move directly under the heel of Brussels. People are fed up with

:09:47.:09:54.

the diktat from Brussels. That is coming across. You kept could do

:09:54.:09:59.

drive the Tories of their seats in Europe in the next elections.

:09:59.:10:05.

UKIP. We're confident that our support as well stand by us and we

:10:05.:10:10.

are working hard to keep our supporters. We have heard about the

:10:10.:10:13.

threat from UKIP in Scotland for a number of years, it has not

:10:13.:10:17.

materialised. We believe we will keep her supporters by giving them

:10:17.:10:22.

the best deals for Scotland. Despite strong results in local

:10:22.:10:25.

elections in England and Wales on Thursday, but party seems farther

:10:25.:10:34.

than ever to getting a foothold here in Holyrood. David Cameron's

:10:34.:10:44.
:10:44.:10:44.

commitment to hold a referendum on EU is widely seen as a reason to

:10:44.:10:49.

vote for Conservatives. It is clear that David Cameron and a Tories are

:10:49.:10:58.

running scared of UKIP. UKIP are all irrelevant thoughts to Scotland.

:10:58.:11:00.

They are dragging Scollan to the exit door rope Europe whether we

:11:00.:11:05.

want to go there are not, that is the Conservatives. The only

:11:05.:11:15.

Scotland has choice is by choosing independence. Nigel Briers has an

:11:15.:11:20.

image as an antidote to be elite of Westminster. So far that has not

:11:20.:11:29.

won many votes from the North of the border. But scholars place in

:11:29.:11:37.

the EU could still habits time cold. -- Scotland's.

:11:37.:11:40.

I'm now joined here in the studio by Dr Nicola McEwen of Edinburgh

:11:40.:11:42.

University's political department and the political commentator, Iain

:11:42.:11:50.

McWhirter is in Edinburgh. What evidence is there to say that

:11:50.:11:55.

Scotland is more pro-European? Scotland is not a nation of

:11:55.:12:00.

Europhiles but there is about more it pro-European feeling here.

:12:00.:12:04.

was recent evidence from a poll that asked exactly how it Scottish

:12:04.:12:10.

people would vote if a referendum on the UK happened over whether to

:12:10.:12:15.

withdraw from Europe or not. A comfortable majority favoured

:12:15.:12:19.

staying within the European Union. That is different from polls that

:12:19.:12:24.

take place in England. Do you agree with that? In the Sunday Herald

:12:24.:12:30.

today UKIP say that it is a problem in that Scotland's big cities. It

:12:30.:12:34.

is not. It is nothing like the antipathy towards immigration in

:12:34.:12:39.

some areas south of the border. Similarly, there is not the

:12:39.:12:45.

opposition to Europe. You do not have the transmission belts but

:12:45.:12:48.

that sort of Euro-scepticism in Scotland because the Tories are

:12:48.:12:52.

largely politically a relevant here and UKIP has made no progress

:12:52.:12:58.

whatsoever. It will upset the balance if you like of the whole

:12:58.:13:02.

debate over independence in Scotland, because the presumption

:13:02.:13:07.

this father has always been, you heard it from Sir Menzies Campbell

:13:07.:13:15.

earlier in this programme, that the SNP would damage staying in the EU,

:13:15.:13:21.

Scotland might be thrown out as a consequence of a voting "yes" in

:13:21.:13:26.

the referendum. But Scotland could find itself out of the EU by

:13:26.:13:35.

remaining with the UK. In the 2014, a few months before the referendum,

:13:35.:13:40.

we had the European elections. On this showing, UKIP are going to win

:13:40.:13:47.

it. England are put at just lurching to the right. -- are

:13:47.:13:56.

perhaps. I think UKIP will do well in the EU elections, it is their

:13:56.:14:00.

turf. So close to the referendum it will have an impact, but it is hard

:14:00.:14:05.

to see how it will have an impact. A lot depends on the parties that

:14:05.:14:11.

lose as a result of that. If a Labour Party holds up then it could

:14:11.:14:16.

make a UK election victory for them in at 2015 a little more likely.

:14:16.:14:20.

That potentially makes the union more attractive. On the other hand,

:14:20.:14:27.

if all of the mainstream parties do badly at UKIP's expense, the union

:14:28.:14:35.

looks less attractive for Scottish people. If Labour do well in people

:14:35.:14:40.

were think that the Conservatives will not be in power for too long.

:14:40.:14:44.

Could that have an influence in the referendum? It could but I think we

:14:44.:14:48.

will hear some quite Euro-sceptic noises from Labour in the next few

:14:48.:14:51.

months as well. They realise they cannot afford to stand aside from

:14:51.:14:57.

what is quite clearly a tide of opinion south of the border. Not

:14:57.:15:03.

only in terms of Europe, also on welfare reform, immigration, things

:15:03.:15:07.

like a gay marriage. We're seeing political culture south of the

:15:07.:15:11.

border moving quite rapidly towards the right. We have always -- we

:15:11.:15:15.

have already had Theresa May discussing that human rights might

:15:15.:15:20.

need to be suspended. We already have tighter immigration policies

:15:20.:15:24.

coming under way. And there is also this welfare reform agenda which

:15:24.:15:29.

has not been popular north of the border. Looking at this question a

:15:29.:15:33.

of Europe, perhaps we in Scotland ignore it slightly because we're so

:15:33.:15:39.

focused on independence. Yes, the focus on the you low mac has so far

:15:39.:15:43.

been about whether an independent Scotland would be entitled to join

:15:43.:15:51.

so far. -- EU. But this does take us on two issues of substance. If

:15:51.:15:55.

we look at the UK withdrawing from the European Union, that would

:15:55.:15:58.

create enormous challenges for Scotland whether it was independent

:15:58.:16:04.

or not. If you were looking at a vision of the independence that in

:16:04.:16:07.

bed sit in the British Isles, looking at a shared labour market

:16:07.:16:12.

and currency, that creates really big difficulties if you were

:16:12.:16:16.

looking at being within the European Union but the rest of the

:16:16.:16:23.

UK not being. What you make of that? Are we ignoring the European

:16:23.:16:28.

question to her detriment? I do not think it is being a ignored. Most

:16:28.:16:32.

of the last 12 months Europe has been the dominant issue in the

:16:32.:16:36.

referendum campaign. That is ever since Alex Salmond suggested that

:16:36.:16:39.

he had legal advice saying that Scotland would remain as a

:16:39.:16:44.

succession state. That was not quite the case. That is a different

:16:44.:16:53.

aspect, though. A different aspect from what? The debate about Alex

:16:53.:16:58.

Salmon to and the regulation on the Europe and so on. That is ignoring

:16:58.:17:04.

the UK debate on Europe. I am saying that that is how the you

:17:04.:17:07.

appear debate has been conducted north of the border. Clearly the

:17:07.:17:13.

UKIP advance is going to hold to that very significantly. As far as

:17:13.:17:19.

the case for Scotland remaining in de EU, most Scott was should people

:17:19.:17:24.

probably go along with that. -- most Scottish people. I do not

:17:24.:17:30.

think there is a huge demand for Scotland to be removed. There was

:17:30.:17:35.

an issue over fisheries which still continues to rankle in the North

:17:35.:17:38.

East but I do not think it is anything like the issue it was

:17:38.:17:41.

before. It is not because Scottish people are hugely enthusiastic

:17:41.:17:46.

about Europe, it is just that you look at opinion polls only about 6%

:17:46.:17:50.

of Scottish people see it as the most important issue in any

:17:50.:17:54.

election. It does not have the same political resonance as you see

:17:55.:18:03.

south of the border. We only to leave it there.

:18:03.:18:06.

Now, a leading Scottish QC has set out a number of proposals to

:18:06.:18:09.

radically reform the Scottish justice system. Writing in The Sun,

:18:09.:18:11.

Derek Ogg says his blueprint is controversial but it will help

:18:11.:18:14.

ensure fairness. He wants to see the three traditional Scottish

:18:14.:18:17.

verdicts - guilty, not guilty, not proven - replaced with just proven

:18:17.:18:20.

or not proven. Rationally, he says, a juror can not say "not guilty".

:18:20.:18:23.

The most they can say is that beyond reasonable doubt a case has

:18:23.:18:29.

been proved or not proven. There is a suggestion to cut the size of

:18:29.:18:33.

juries from the present 15 members down to 10. The majority verdict

:18:33.:18:37.

would be kept at 8 though. Jurors would also be allowed to access the

:18:37.:18:40.

internet as they have no legal training and should be allowed to

:18:40.:18:42.

research the subject matter. His biggest fear is that corroboration

:18:42.:18:52.
:18:52.:18:58.

could be axed. The QC says it is an The Scottish Government have given

:18:58.:19:04.

us this response. We welcome any plans to improve the efficiency of

:19:04.:19:10.

Scotland's Court, we are trying to create a more modern justice system

:19:10.:19:13.

that is fair and efficient. Joining me now in the studio is

:19:13.:19:22.

Derek Ogg QC. It is a controversial move. Is it fair for someone to

:19:22.:19:29.

move out of court when they have had a not guilty verdict, not

:19:29.:19:35.

proven leaves a cloud of suspicion. Not really. I really think we all

:19:35.:19:41.

know that we're not proven. If everyone understands that that

:19:41.:19:45.

means not guilty, been everybody does understand that if they walk

:19:45.:19:51.

out of the Crown Prosecution and the Crown Prosecution has not

:19:51.:19:56.

maintained their case against them, there are not guilty. The changing

:19:56.:20:00.

the meaning of these verdicts is that explains better to a jury what

:20:00.:20:03.

they're there to do. There are not there to look into somebody's heart

:20:03.:20:08.

or conscience, they cannot do that. There are not there to remember

:20:08.:20:13.

what happened, they were not there. But the at their to say that the

:20:13.:20:17.

case that has been brought in front of them, I be satisfied?

:20:17.:20:21.

Prosecutors are being told to prove that beyond reasonable doubt. Has

:20:21.:20:29.

that been done? It easy for it proved orators not proved. -- it is

:20:29.:20:38.

either a proved or it is not proved. What about lowering the number of

:20:38.:20:45.

Jura as? He would save �0.5 million simply in administrative costs to

:20:45.:20:53.

start with. A smaller number gives that number more time to talk about

:20:53.:20:59.

issues. It simply is a more manageable number. I would say in

:20:59.:21:03.

Scotland, if you go to the beginning of the jury system around

:21:03.:21:07.

the 12th century. There was no fixed number of forgeries then. It

:21:07.:21:17.
:21:17.:21:29.

was always just locals who were a Why are you making these comments

:21:29.:21:37.

now do? The reason I make the comments now it is because of a

:21:38.:21:43.

number of things combining together. The idea we can do away with

:21:43.:21:50.

corroboration which is the biggest safeguard in Scots law. There is no

:21:50.:21:55.

duty in minor cases but still in serious cases. The corroboration

:21:55.:22:01.

issue is there. The case with Chris Huhne where the dewy word this

:22:01.:22:06.

charged because the asked too many questions which the lawyer said

:22:06.:22:11.

where rather silly questions. They were mocked for wanting to make

:22:11.:22:16.

inquiry. The jury system is valuable and important to us but we

:22:16.:22:23.

want to bring it up to date and modernise it. That includes having

:22:23.:22:27.

access to the Internet, even a website dedicated to the particular

:22:27.:22:31.

trial they are involved in, and what are some of the consequences

:22:31.:22:35.

of Scots law and self defence and provocation and acting together

:22:35.:22:43.

with others. Briefly, do you have support from legal colleagues?

:22:43.:22:51.

There is an appetite amongst the legal profession for reform.

:22:51.:22:54.

Now in a moment, we'll be discussing what's making news in

:22:54.:22:57.

politics at Holyrood this week and next, but first, let's take a look

:22:57.:23:07.
:23:07.:23:08.

back at the Week in 60 seconds. Three soldiers from the Royal

:23:08.:23:11.

Regiment of Scotland where killed in Afghanistan went a vehicle was

:23:11.:23:17.

hit by a roadside bomb. Westminster's Foreign Affairs

:23:17.:23:21.

Committee say the UK's international status would suffer

:23:21.:23:28.

if Scotland became independent. Scotland's most senior prosecutor

:23:28.:23:30.

criticised the UK Business Secretary Vince Cable after he

:23:30.:23:35.

called for a quick decision on the prosecution of former bosses are at

:23:35.:23:38.

the Royal Bank of Scotland. The Scotch Whisky Association lost

:23:38.:23:41.

a legal challenge against government plans to introduce

:23:41.:23:49.

minimum unit price things. decision to appeal should not come

:23:49.:23:56.

up as a surprise. They should respect the democratic decision of

:23:56.:24:01.

these Scottish Parliament. Douglas Alexander said Scotland

:24:01.:24:06.

needs to find ways to disagree with it being disagreeable ahead of the

:24:06.:24:10.

independence referendum. That was the week that was. Let's

:24:10.:24:16.

now focus on the big stories and check out the week ahead.

:24:16.:24:19.

This week we have Peter McMahon from the Scotsman and the

:24:19.:24:29.
:24:29.:24:31.

journalist and author Kirsty Scott. Thank you for joining us. Updike

:24:31.:24:36.

issue this week has been the on line rolling story after Susan

:24:36.:24:46.
:24:46.:24:47.

Carmen was heavily criticised online. A story here about

:24:47.:24:53.

nationalism and fascism in Scotland on Sunday. For this is a very

:24:53.:24:58.

worrying that element. To have a debate in Scotland about

:24:58.:25:02.

independence and the constitutional future, it has to be conducted in a

:25:02.:25:07.

way that allows people to express strong views but where they are not

:25:07.:25:15.

vilified on either side. The point was made by Fiona Hyslop that if

:25:15.:25:25.
:25:25.:25:25.

you mention Scotland on Sunday, up a column today praises Douglas

:25:25.:25:28.

Alexander and cost are exactly the same thing. We have to have that

:25:28.:25:33.

and we have to have a civilised debate and cannot have trolling on

:25:33.:25:39.

end the side. Both sides are keen to point out that their victims are

:25:39.:25:45.

of this kind of behaviour. Most it is not fair to say that most of it

:25:45.:25:50.

is coming from the nationalist side. Nicholas Budgen said she had death

:25:50.:25:55.

threats so it is getting to a worrying level. It has always been

:25:55.:26:00.

there but it has built. It was a pretty bad couple of weeks for the

:26:00.:26:05.

Yes campaign in terms of currency and foreign affairs. A lot of

:26:06.:26:09.

issues they were on the back but about and he tends to see then that

:26:09.:26:14.

when people are just actually reporting, the end up having

:26:14.:26:22.

horrendous abuse targeted at them. They are just doing their jobs and

:26:22.:26:26.

back-up lot columns today are saying, line in the sand, this has

:26:26.:26:35.

to stop now. This kind of French is not doing anyone any favours.

:26:35.:26:44.

you see this behaviour stopping? I'd like to think it will. --

:26:45.:26:53.

fringe. You would hope perhaps that when senior figures in the SNP and

:26:53.:26:58.

the Labour Party speak out about it that those who are doing this might

:26:58.:27:04.

listen. What we have to do is focus on doing our jobs as journalists,

:27:04.:27:09.

presenting these stories as they come along. We should be analysing

:27:09.:27:17.

policies. We have to try and make sure it is a proper debate. That

:27:17.:27:22.

does not mean that people cannot have very strongly held views but

:27:22.:27:26.

we must be able to express them without these kinds of people

:27:26.:27:31.

intimidating them. We have always prided ourselves on being a

:27:31.:27:37.

tolerant nation. It is important to point out that some people within

:27:37.:27:45.

the SNP are getting similar abuse. Andrew Wilson is getting some

:27:45.:27:50.

hassle on line as a nationalist for complementing Douglas Alexander!

:27:50.:27:56.

Let's move on to the issue of UK it. Nigel Farage was in the Sunday

:27:56.:28:05.

Herald today with a clown's red nose. It is possibly been

:28:05.:28:10.

overstated. The media are very caught up in it but two-thirds of

:28:10.:28:16.

people who could what did not vote. It was a resounding success for

:28:16.:28:21.

them as they are but in terms of Scotland, we do not think they will

:28:21.:28:26.

have the same impact. The say they are now heading north and hoping to

:28:26.:28:36.
:28:36.:28:36.

set up in cities up here. England at moves to the right, what

:28:36.:28:41.

effect could that have on the independence referendum? I thought

:28:41.:28:47.

she made a very interesting point which is what about if you have

:28:47.:28:54.

independence where Scotland is tied to the pound Stirling currency and

:28:54.:28:59.

then the UK opts out of the EU? Where does that leave Scotland or

:28:59.:29:02.

any combination of Scotland voting for independence and then there is

:29:02.:29:09.

a blot on the EU. That is a huge extra dimension and I am not quite

:29:09.:29:15.

sure where they then stand on it in the SNP. Where they would stand on

:29:15.:29:21.

the pounds Stirling if the UK was moving out of Europe. The SNP may

:29:21.:29:26.

see it as quite handy to see that England is lurching to the right

:29:26.:29:31.

but why then tie yourself into a shared currency? It raises as many

:29:31.:29:38.

questions as answer has. What about the UKIP themselves making some

:29:38.:29:47.

progress in Scotland? I do not think it is as big an issue and

:29:47.:29:51.

when you look at where they did well in England it is particular ad

:29:51.:30:00.

is where they have been talking of immigration. You cannot ignore

:30:00.:30:06.

ordinary people's views that they have worries about it. I do not

:30:06.:30:10.

think Scots necessarily are that different, it is just not as bigger

:30:10.:30:15.

issue here. Up are Scots more pro- European than their English may be

:30:15.:30:20.

as? I think so and we always have been and 10 to have an

:30:20.:30:26.

Andrew Neil and Andrew Kerr with the latest analysis of the local election results, including interviews with the Conservative Party chairman, Grant Shapps, former Tory frontbencher, David Davis and shadow justice secretary, Saddiq Khan. He also asks what next for UKIP with Godfrey Bloom MEP.


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