Browse content similar to 29/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Maureen, folks. Welcome to the programme. David Cameron should out | :00:38. | :00:46. | |
his scheme to help house-buyers. Is he merely stoking a new house price | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
bubble? As the activists gather in Manchester for their party | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
conference, we will have the results of an exclusive survey of Tory | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
councillors. I will be speaking to William Hague. Ed Miliband has made | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
headlines with his pledge to freeze energy prices for 20 months but as | :01:05. | :01:11. | |
the new policy stack? Caroline Flint to intimate. -- joins me. And on | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
Sunday Politics Scotland: A plum slot for the Scottish Conservative | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
leader at conference - speaking before the PM. Do the Tories "get" | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
Scotland ahead of the referendum? With me are a trio of top political | :01:22. | :01:37. | |
commentators. All three will be With me are a trio of top political | :01:37. | :01:44. | |
tweeting their thoughts, or in some cases just their thought through the | :01:44. | :01:53. | |
show, using the hashtag #bbcsp. The Conservative Party conference gets | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
under way in Manchester this afternoon. We have already been | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
bombarded with a series of policy announcements, a tax break for | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
married couples of up to £200 per year, more money on life extending | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
cancer treatments and, last night, the news that the second stage of | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
the Chancellor's Help To Buy scheme will start next week. That is | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
brought forward from the start of next year. David Cameron says it is | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
all about helping hard-working people. Right now, you can't get, | :02:19. | :02:28. | |
it's very difficult to get, a 90% or 95% mortgage. That means a typical | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
family with two people earning 20,000, 25,000, they are being | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
asked, to buy an average house, they 20,000, 25,000, they are being | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
are being asked to find a £40,000 deposit. They can afford the | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
mortgage payment, but they can't get the mortgage. They can't buy their | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
flat or house. As Prime Minister, I'm not going to stand back while | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
people's aspirations to get on the housing ladder, to own their own | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
flat or home, is being trashed. That is why we need to act. A predictable | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
attempt by party leadership to kick-start the conference with | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
eye-catching policies. The polls show a big bounce for Ed Miliband | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
and the Labour Party, with decent numbers for UKIP. What do party | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
activists think about David Cameron's leadership and the | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
challenge posed by UKIP? Adam Fleming has been meeting Tory | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
councillors as they travel to their party conference. | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
For the Conservatives this weekend, all roads and trams lead to | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
Manchester for their party conference, and as a scene setter we | :03:28. | :03:36. | |
asked ComRes to survey councillors are Finland and Wales. Councillors | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
asked ComRes to survey councillors like Tom, packing for conference at | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
home in Wellingborough. Immigration is an issue for him. He thinks there | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
are pros and cons. But we found that 54% of his colleagues feel | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
immigration has had a negative impact on the UK. I think it | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
reflects into this wider issue of our relationship with Europe. People | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
are very concerned about the possible influx of ovarian and | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
Romania emigrants. Obviously the issue of Europe is very big. -- | :04:08. | :04:18. | |
Ukrainian. His colleagues in Corby are worried about the rise of the UK | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
Independence Party. In our survey, nearly a quarter of Conservative | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
councillors thought that their party should make a pact with UKIP. The | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
concern is, yes, will they take votes away from ourselves in 2015? | :04:31. | :04:38. | |
If that happens, maybe we don't get back in. Maybe a partnership is the | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
way to go. It depends what they want and we want. But we should be | :04:43. | :04:50. | |
talking about them. A pact? Depends what they say, anything is possible. | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
What would you like to see? Ideally, from my point of view, a national | :04:55. | :05:07. | |
pact. David Cameron arrived in Manchester last night. Around the | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
same time as these activists from London. I broke the news to them | :05:13. | :05:21. | |
that in our survey just 26% of Tory councillors think that the prime | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
ministers in touch with the lives of ordinary people. The same at all | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
Conservatives, you don't judge people by their background. It's not | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
where they come from, it is where they are going to. It is not a | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
where they come from, it is where problem that he is a bit on the posh | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
side? Cull you might describe him like that, I would not use those | :05:40. | :05:47. | |
words. Explain your T-shirt, it is a phrase that a senior Cameron person | :05:48. | :05:55. | |
is alleged to have used about you? It is a humorous way of letting the | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
party now that we are here to say what we think. Members are | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
important. We are not going away any time soon. A sentiment you will hear | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
a lot at this conference, because just 22% of councillors in our | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
survey said that David Cameron was any good at listening to the people | :06:09. | :06:16. | |
that work hard for his party. That was Adam. Joining me now from the | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
Conservative Party conference in Manchester, Foreign Secretary | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
William Hague. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Good morning. Over one in | :06:24. | :06:33. | |
five Tory councillors in our survey support a pact with UKIP at the next | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
election. Why do you think that is? If it is one in five, it means a | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
large majority did not want a pact with UKIP at the next election. They | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
have noticed that UKIP, in local elections, has been receiving votes, | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
some of which would otherwise have been for the Conservatives. I think | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
we have to make sure that people understand that at a general | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
election they are choosing between a Conservative and Labour Government, | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
as David Cameron as Prime Minister or Ed Miliband. If people want to | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
get a referendum on Europe, the only way to do that is to have David | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a general election is different from | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
the local government perspective. It is pretty unusual, some might say | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
unprecedented, for a large chunk of one of the big parties in this | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
country to want to go into coalition one of the big parties in this | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
with a smaller party before an election. When has that ever | :07:23. | :07:31. | |
happened? Looking at your survey, three times as many didn't want to | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
do that. As ever, with a survey, with statistics, you can highlight | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
it whichever way around you want to. The point is, we are not having | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
pacts with other parties, electoral pacts with other parties. You rule | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
it out? That is not going to happen. What we do want is to have a pact | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
it out? That is not going to happen. with the voters, if you like, as we | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
have often done in the Conservative Party. We have won over the voters | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
of other parties to support our policies and Prime Minister. That is | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
important with those people that say they want to vote for UKIP. By | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
default, they would produce a Labour government in the exact opposite of | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
many of the things they intend, if they would otherwise vote | :08:12. | :08:14. | |
Conservative and decide to vote for UKIP instead in a general election. | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
That could help to produce a Labour government. The chairman of the 1922 | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
committee, the elected voice of Conservative backbenchers, he says | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
your party should spell out what had once back from the European Union | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
before next year's European actions. Do you agree? We will be spelling | :08:35. | :08:43. | |
out some things in the European elections. I will be talking about | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
this later on today. For instance, about the need the UK and the | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
European treaties the concept of ever closer union, a concept that in | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
Britain we have never really believed in. We would like that to | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
be changed, with all of the consequences that would flow from | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
that. We will be setting out the examples and principles of the | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
changes we want to say. Certainly over the next year, not only before | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
the European actions but the general election, if you are saying, let | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
have the exact list of anything that we are going to be able to | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
negotiate, that is difficult because there will be a negotiation of a new | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
deal in Europe if David Cameron as Prime Minister after the next | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
election. To some extent, that has to be negotiated. Only 11% of your | :09:29. | :09:37. | |
own councillors feel that people in their area think that George Osborne | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
is in touch with ordinary people. Why is he seemed to be so aloof? It | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
is not for me to explain why people say what they say in surveys. The | :09:46. | :09:53. | |
important thing is what we are delivering for the country. What | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
George Osborne is delivering his renewed economic growth. 1.4 million | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
new jobs in the private sector, help for hard-working people, by reducing | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
the tax for 25 million of them. The Help To Buy scheme that we are | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
highlighting today. That is what really matters to people, actually, | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
I think you will find. Let's talk about helping ordinary people. Ed | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
Miliband is guilty freeze energy prices. What are you going to do | :10:20. | :10:28. | |
about energy prices, we already asked energy companies to put people | :10:28. | :10:36. | |
on their lowest tariffs. This has not been amended. -- implemented. | :10:36. | :10:45. | |
Why not? This is going to happen within this government. It is going | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
to happen within this government when the... Why hasn't it happened | :10:51. | :10:58. | |
now? People are suffering now from rising energy prices. It has not | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
happened because my colleagues have been implimenting it. In the case of | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
Ed Miliband's policy, if you are asking why it has not yet happened | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
under this Government, it didn't even survive a few our's scrutiny in | :11:10. | :11:16. | |
opposition. In a few hours he had to concede that if there was a big | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
change in oil prices then the policy would not work. The trouble is, it | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
would dry up some of the investment in the energy industry. I don't | :11:23. | :11:32. | |
think it is a credible promise. For a party that presided over council | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
tax bills doubling in the next government, -- last government, it's | :11:37. | :11:47. | |
not very credible. Why is George Osborne going against the European | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
Union to protect banker bonuses? Well, we don't want to see the | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
European treaties used in a way that they should not be used. It's not | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
necessarily over this particular issue. It is over the power that the | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
European Union has over our lives and over this country. Can the | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
bankers look after themselves? We should be able to decide those | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
bankers look after themselves? We things in our own country. We have | :12:09. | :12:17. | |
never signed up to such matters in European institutions. If you allow | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
one thing that wasn't meant to be decided to be decided, you find | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
one thing that wasn't meant to be there are another ten or 20 things | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
that affect many other people. We are very vigilant about what we call | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
competence creep, with the European Union taking more powers than it was | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
meant to have. That is one of the reasons why people do want a | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
referendum, do want a new deal in Europe. That is what we intend to | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
give them. Let's look at in competence creep. A big city | :12:44. | :12:51. | |
institution, ICAP, fined for fixing the LIBOR rates. The founder of that | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
company has donated £5 million to your party. Shouldn't you give it | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
back? Aren't you ashamed to accept that money? He has donated his own | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
money to the Conservative Party. Which he made out of ICAP. As people | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
have to other parties, people are free to do that and they should be | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
free to do that. I am not aware of any plan for that to be repaid. | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
Because you can't afford to. Let's recap this. We have seen Tory MPs | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
parrot propaganda lines from the energy companies this week. We have | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
the Chancellor going to court energy companies this week. We have | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
fight for unlimited banker bonuses. We have a top Tory donor the centre | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
fight for unlimited banker bonuses. of yet another city scandal. Ed | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
Miliband is right when he says you lot are on the side of the vested | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
interests so the rich and powerful, isn't he? Well, again, look at the | :13:39. | :13:47. | |
record. I just did! 1.4 million extra jobs in the private sector, 25 | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
million people with a tax cut, a Help To Buy scheme which is going to | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
help so many people, particularly young people have the house that | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
they need and deserve for the future. Council tax bills held down, | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
welfare reform so that it pays to work. Actually, this is a government | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
achieving things for hard-working people and that will be highlighted | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
to this conference. While President Laugharne he's | :14:11. | :14:25. | |
talking about peace, the Iranians are speeding up their nuclear | :14:25. | :14:32. | |
weapons programme. -- is talking. It would be hard to say from week | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
to week whether it is speeding up or slowing down but they are | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
continuing with it. That is why we say the new message - the new words | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
- from Iranian leadership are very welcome. I said that to the Foreign | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
Minister in New York over the last few days but it is the actions that | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
will count. At the moment, the nuclear programme continues. We | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
have agreed to commence negotiations on that and that will | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
be a very important test as to whether actions will match the | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
words. When will we know it if we are being strung along? He has | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
strung as a long in the past as a nuclear weapons negotiator. When | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
will we know if he is not just doing that again? Over the next few | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
weeks, it will be a very important time. He has said there should be | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
more transparency over the Iranian nuclear programme. It is not | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
transparent in many regards at the moment. The atomic agency is asking | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
for information that is not being given. One test is, in the coming | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
weeks, will they give more information? The information that | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
the international of authority is asking for about their nuclear | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
programme. We will be able to form a view of this in the coming weeks | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
or months. It is important we test their new willingness to talk to us | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
and negotiate with us. It is important to find out whether they | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
are serious about it. You are asking, is the nuclear programme | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
really continuing? Are they really going to be realistic about | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
negotiations and offer something they have not offer before? | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
Speaking of being strung along, what sanctions would President | :16:20. | :16:28. | |
Assad face if, in six months - the Year, Syria still has a chemical | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
weapons arsenal. In the resolution we voted through the UN Security | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
Council on Friday night, is the commitment that the Security | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
Council will take measures under Chapter seven of the UN Charter in | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
the event of non-compliance. Does that allow full force? I did not | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
catch that. Does that allow for force? It is similar to the | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
Security Council resolution about Iraq, which most people concluded | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
in not allow full force. It does not specify that. It talks about | :17:06. | :17:13. | |
terms seven of the charter. That is a message of the whole UN Security | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
Council that there will be measures - there will be consequences - if | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
the Assad regime does not comply. Russia has a lot riding on this. It | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
has a big commitment. I have spent a lot of time at my Russian | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
counterpart over the last week. Russia has said, this is something | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
you will have to do. We will work with Russia and others very closely | :17:38. | :17:43. | |
to check there is compliance will this resolution. Given the progress | :17:43. | :17:49. | |
that has been made, you must be very glad that the British House of | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
Commons stopped your rash to force against Syria. -- rush. The reason | :17:53. | :18:06. | |
Commons stopped your rash to force has happened is because there was a | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
credible threat of military action. President Obama did not get it | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
through Congress. They have not had the vote in Congress. There is no | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
other explanation as to why the policy changed. It was because | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
there was a debate about military action in the West that the policy | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
changed on theirs. That is why it changed. We were not in a rush for | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
military action. The boat put to the House of Commons was to have | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
another Aotearoa after the inspectors reported. It was before | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
we got to that point that the inspectors reported. It was before | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
Russian and Syrian policy changed. We need to make sure that works in | :18:50. | :19:02. | |
practice. Thank you. What do you make about this rushing forward | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
with the help to buy scheme which was meant to start next year - | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
coming forward mad to the next couple of weeks? I think it is a | :19:11. | :19:20. | |
terrible policy. The Treasury Select Committee, Perez a | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
fundamental problem with the Government having an interest in | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
mortgage lending. -- there is a fundamental problem. It should have | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
been set much lower to exclude London and the South East where | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
houses are dramatically overvalued. Many economists think freezing | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
energy prices is a terrible policy. These policies can be popular. If | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
you have no chance of getting a deposit, the Government will make | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
that possible because it will guarantee a big chunk of the | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
deposit. Do not forget George Osborne tried every single lever. | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
It looked like he could not do anything to get the economy moving. | :20:01. | :20:07. | |
It is moving. They have pulled it forward and there are signs it is | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
recovering. The reason why they are doing this is they want to show | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
this week at the conference there are real sort of understandable | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
issues you can explain very simply that really up going to improve | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
people's lives. The Conservatives were slightly spooked by Ed | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
Miliband's speech last week. The language used by David Cameron this | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
morning was that the tax policy was nuts. Much more cautious and -- | :20:38. | :20:47. | |
language about the energy price freeze. They are nervous that Ed | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
Miliband may be touching a nerve on that one. What we will get this | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
week, I suggest, his Tory populism to counter Miliband populism. I | :20:56. | :21:02. | |
week, I suggest, his Tory populism think we will see that and it will | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
be a mistake. As long as it is think we will see that and it will | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
about The Picture, they are on relatively strong ground. When the | :21:11. | :21:18. | |
political conversation changes to more fiddly things, particularities | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
of energy prices or living standards, things that are some way | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
below that picture, I do not think they can win a bidding war with the | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
Labour Party. It is about borrowing against a party that stands for the | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
rectitude at a macro economic against a party that stands for the | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
It is about getting the conversation back to where | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
It is about getting the before the Labour conference, which | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
is unemployment, GDP growth and the warming economic picture. That does | :21:47. | :21:54. | |
not pay energy bills. Does not sound that the Tories have anything | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
not pay energy bills. Does not to counter the price freeze. -- it | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
does not sound. They have had a week to think about a great attack | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
line and they do not add anything. They have just said, the lights | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
will go out. Now they're saying, it will not | :22:12. | :22:27. | |
the credibility test. Ed Miliband said, if there were a big spike in | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
energy prices, he would not be able to keep his freeze in those | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
circumstances. to keep his freeze in those | :22:36. | :22:45. | |
credibility test. It to keep his freeze in those | :22:45. | :22:45. | |
politically acute announcement but it is about credibility. Being seen | :22:45. | :22:45. | |
as serious and grown-up is worth it is about credibility. Being seen | :22:45. | :22:52. | |
more than any burst of popularity. My worry about the announcement is | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
more than any burst of popularity. with the election campaign, it | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
begins to lose credibility, begins to seem a banana republic. It looks | :23:01. | :23:10. | |
a lot less wise than it did last week. I disagree. Every time energy | :23:10. | :23:14. | |
bills go up and they will continue to go up, it will be a reminder of | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
how much people are being hit in the pockets. People know by energy | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
prices are going up. There is a structural change in the world that | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
was not there before - China and India. These energy companies may | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
be making huge profit but, at the end of the day, what is driving up | :23:33. | :23:40. | |
the cost of fuel is China and India. Ed Miliband, great man that he is, | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
I am not sure he can take on the people Sammir on that one. How dare | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
you! -- the People's Army. Ed Miliband came out fighting at | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
Labour's Conference in Brighton last week. Dogged by criticism over | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
the summer of his leadership style and lack of policies, Mr Miliband | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
tried to demonstrate his strength of character with a series of bold | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
announcements, and attempted to position himself on the side of | :24:03. | :24:09. | |
ordinary Brits. The Labour leader told party members he would stand | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
up to the strong and take on the vested interests that hold back our | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
up to the strong and take on the economy. In a speech in which he | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
jokingly referred to himself as an action hero, Mr Miliband promised | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
to switch the forthcoming business action hero, Mr Miliband promised | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
tax cut from large firms to smaller businesses. He said he would force | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
big firms to train at an apprentice every time they bring in a worker | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
from outside the EU. He hinted that increasing the minimum wage would | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
be increased. He bowed to take on developers with a use it or lose it | :24:40. | :24:47. | |
threat to landowners and pledged to build 200,000 homes each year by | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
threat to landowners and pledged to 2020. He promised to freeze energy | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
prices and reset the energy market. The next Labour government will | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
freeze gas and electricity prices until the start of 2017. That | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
freeze gas and electricity prices provoked a rash of headlines - | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
hailing the return of red Ed macro. It has also given him a spike in | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
the polls. And Labour's Shadow Energy Secretary Caroline Flint | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
joins me now for the Sunday Interview. | :25:16. | :25:25. | |
Ed Miliband says, our energy market is broken and does not work. In | :25:25. | :25:34. | |
what way is that market to date different from the one Labour left | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
behind in 2010? We have six companies that dominate the energy | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
sector. It is the same. They generate energy, and sell it on to | :25:45. | :25:52. | |
us. What we recognise and Ed Miliband recognised when he was | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
Secretary of State and asked for more information from the company | :25:56. | :25:58. | |
Secretary of State and asked for is on hold serve costs and profits, | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
all the things we have done to mitigate against that in terms of a | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
warm front programme and everything else has not dealt with the | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
fundamental problem that the Horsell market is too secretive and | :26:08. | :26:15. | |
it is too much about such supply. - - the wholesale market. We have | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
been raising with the Government in a co-operative way the argument for | :26:19. | :26:25. | |
resetting the market. It has got worse in terms of speed at which | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
prices have gone up. Labour put wholesale and retail together. It | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
was the start this dates back to Margaret Thatcher and the | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
privatisation. We took some reforms to reset the market. We have | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
realised it was not working and it was broken and we need to reset it. | :26:45. | :26:50. | |
Ed Miliband will be the first to say we did not do enough from 2005 | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
onwards. Let's have a look at what happened to energy prices under the | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
Labour government. Electricity up 67%, gas up 139%. Overall prices up | :27:00. | :27:08. | |
by 48%. The market was broken and the Government as well. From 2005, | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
we saw prices biking as wholesale prices went up. The tick action on | :27:14. | :27:21. | |
the one Front programme, decent homes for social housing. -- we | :27:21. | :27:28. | |
took action on per warm front programme. Trying to do things | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
around social obligations needs to be looked at. Gas and electricity | :27:33. | :27:39. | |
bills are high partially as a consequence of the market you | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
presided over but as a consequence of Labour policy. Beds have a look | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
at the breakdown of dual fuel - gas and electricity bill. -- let's have | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
a look. The supply costs of getting it to us and so on. The policies | :27:56. | :28:02. | |
that were introduced by your government - Green levies - are | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
adding almost 10% to has told energy bills. £112 on average bill | :28:06. | :28:14. | |
of 1188. You have put the bill up. Eight -- social and green | :28:14. | :28:24. | |
obligations amount to £112. That helps the poorest insulate homes. | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
Overwhelmingly, looking at your graph and the figures I have, | :28:29. | :28:35. | |
wholesale costs are worth more than half. What we have seen, based on | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
figures we now have, in Eni macro, a wholesale costs fell by 39% and | :28:41. | :28:49. | |
that was not reflected in our bills. Do you have plans to do anything | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
about the £112? If you took that off, you could cut bills by 10% | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
tomorrow. Or if you were in power. It is important that restimulate | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
the opportunity to grow clean energy. It -- we stimulate. If we | :29:04. | :29:12. | |
do not have clean energy, we will be beholden for ever-more to fossil | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
do not have clean energy, we will fuels that are depleting. It will | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
create jobs and bring in investment will start in the last few years, | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
we have seen investment in renewable energy half. -- in | :29:25. | :29:31. | |
investment. If I could go back to competition in the markets, | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
whatever advance there are, looking at whether the money raised through | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
energy companies to deliver energy efficiency, is that doing as well | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
as it might? Could it be better delivered by another agency? They | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
are fair questions. We need to get ahead of that and look at the | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
market. Can we make the market will competitive make sure when there is | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
downward pressure on wholesale prices, that is reflected on our | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
bills? That is the bigger picture argument. Also the freeze to help | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
people during that period. As you complain about the energy | :30:04. | :30:17. | |
prices, it was as a result of your actions. Ed Miliband introduced the | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
climate change act. He admitted prices would have to rise to pay for | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
decarbonisation. He said, we are prices would have to rise to pay for | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
going to minimise the costs as much as possible, but it is true there is | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
not a low-cost energy future out there. It is important that we | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
address the pressures on bills, but also recognise that if we are going | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
to build a better future where we can have more home-grown British | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
energy and, in the long-term, cheaper, we need to invest in | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
renewables. Truth is it is about the market. I acknowledge I acknowledge | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
eyes what you say about the 112. I am not going to disagree. But | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
wholesale prices have fallen. They fell in 2009, we got a reduction in | :30:59. | :31:08. | |
bills of 5%. Which are saying that the big companies are overcharging | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
customers. We are seeing profits going up, but we haven't seen the | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
amount of investment suggested by going up, but we haven't seen the | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
those profits coming through. But that £125 is going to get worse, | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
because your leader said in his speech in Brighton that Labour will | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
have a world leading commitment in Government to take out all carbon | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
from energy generation by 2030. That is not that far away. By 2030, no | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
more coal generation, no more gas generation, only much more expensive | :31:37. | :31:43. | |
nuclear and much more expensive renewables. It cannot be done | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
without bills going up even further? Hang on a second. The 2030 target to | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
remove carbon from the electricity supply, we have said we | :31:53. | :32:11. | |
your commitment is to get rid of all carbon from power generation by | :32:11. | :32:20. | |
2013. Only electricity. So you still have gas? We will need gas for | :32:20. | :32:27. | |
decades to come. We will still need gas the decades to come, we are only | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
talking about electricity supply. You will be increasingly dependent | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
on expensive nuclear, EDF are currently demanding the double of | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
the market price, and renewables which are four times the market | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
price, our bills are going up under your policies. And the Coalition 's | :32:46. | :32:54. | |
policies, too. On the clear, we did take a decision that we needed to | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
revitalise our nuclear power sector help us meet our targets in terms of | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
clean energy and make sure it could do the heavy lifting. Totally agree. | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
The government at the present time are engaged in discussions with EDF | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
about what the price should be, I don't know what that's going to be. | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
It's important that stands up to scrutiny in terms of value for | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
money. But I go back to our market reforms. We won't just have a | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
contract the difference for nuclear, we will have it for renewables as | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
well. That makes it even more important that we have a transparent | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
markets in which energy is bought and sold so we can have a riposte | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
reference price in which those issues can be judged against. -- | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
robust. Michael Gove recognised at the other night that the market | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
wasn't working, the Daily Telegraph use the term cosy cartel, and we | :33:47. | :33:52. | |
have former advisers to David Cameron and former ministers saying | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
something needs to be done and I'm surprised David Cameron doesn't | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
acknowledge that. You are going to freeze prices for 20 months and then | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
you will, with a new regulator. Will that regulator have the power to | :34:04. | :34:12. | |
control gas and electricity prices? What the regulator will have existed | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
at a rate responsibility to monitor the wholesale cost will get doesn't | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
have. -- statutory responsibility. As result, it will have the power | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
that if the wholesale prices fall, it can force the energy companies, | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
if they don't pass on reductions in bills, but it will not have what we | :34:31. | :34:38. | |
see in some parts of the EU, in 15 countries, they have a variety of | :34:38. | :34:43. | |
price controls which at things below inflation and what have you. In | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
France, Spain, Italy. It won't do that, because we are looking at a | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
temporary price freeze to reflect the reduction in wholesale prices in | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
the last few years to give the British public some respite from | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
ever climbing bills while we get our reforms, because of the end double | :35:00. | :35:07. | |
this, what we want is a competitive market that is more transparent. But | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
we do believe it is right that we need a regulator that has much more | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
of a role in making sure that market is working effectively. Are you | :35:15. | :35:20. | |
accusing the energy companies of profiteering? I am accusing them of | :35:20. | :35:27. | |
overcharging, yes, of overcharging, of not passing on wholesale | :35:27. | :35:30. | |
reduction in costs to their customers. I am accusing the | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
companies of making profits in a way which undermines the consumer. | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
Because I do believe that the level of profits that they have passed on | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
to their shareholders is high compared to the reductions they | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
could have provided the consumers. Let's look at the evidence. In the | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
last fiscal year, they made combined earnings of £4 billion. | :35:58. | :36:12. | |
Where in these figures is the profiteering? My figures, their | :36:12. | :36:21. | |
reporting to the regulator and to work done by other organisations, | :36:21. | :36:28. | |
show that in Centrica 's case, they have something like an eight button | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
to return on profit margins on the retail side, that goes up to | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
something like 24% on their generation side. They have passed | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
on, in terms of their profits, something like 74% through dividends | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
to their shareholders... But they're just invested £3 billion! I am just | :36:46. | :36:53. | |
reporting the information that has been passed on to the regulator. But | :36:53. | :37:00. | |
they have never accused them of profiteering. I have... Can I do is | :37:00. | :37:08. | |
finish my point. It is acknowledged that across the sector, across the | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
big six, something like 60% of the profits have gone over to | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
shareholders as dividends, in the guise of Centrica, it is 74%. In | :37:17. | :37:23. | |
that example, even though they have their highest profit margins, they | :37:23. | :37:26. | |
have invested the least. So I think it is fair to question... None of us | :37:26. | :37:33. | |
really know what the true price of energy is and that is why our policy | :37:33. | :37:41. | |
to reform is necessary. Finally, if they continue putting prices up, | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
even after your price freeze, if they don't invest in the way they | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
do, do you rule out wholesale nationalisation? Absolutely, I want | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
a more competitive market and that is why we are resetting | :37:54. | :37:55. | |
Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up: | :37:55. | :38:10. | |
"Better Together" or Better Apart? We've heard from Yes Scotland, now | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
it's the turn of the pro-union campaign as both sides tussle over | :38:13. | :38:24. | |
who will debate with whom. I think I will keep my eyes set on the Prime | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
Minister, on the organ grinder, in this particular campaign. You could | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
hardly do it with somebody who has no control over these issues. Nice | :38:32. | :38:38. | |
try, but no one is going to fall for it. We'll put that to the leader of | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
the "Better Together" campaign, Alistair Darling. And a prime slot | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
for the Conservative leader Ruth Davidson at the party's conference | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
in Manchester - do the Tories now "get" Scotland? Two weeks ago we | :38:49. | :39:00. | |
heard from the First Minister as the one year countdown started to the | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
referendum. With 353 days to go now, we'll talk to his main opponent. But | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
the two men won't speak to each other as the argument rages about a | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
TV debate showdown. With that issue and more, here's Steven Godden with | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
his "capital look" at ""Better Together"". Take a stroll through | :39:13. | :39:21. | |
the centre of Edinburgh and almost everywhere you turn, there is an | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
unmistakable landmark, but the political climate, what you see is | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
great piles of and mortar, and it depends on your own perspective. | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
Take the castle. An early stronghold of Scottish kings, today it | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
generates millions as a tourist attraction, but the centuries it has | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
also been home to British army soldiers, assemble, ""Better | :39:42. | :39:48. | |
Together"" supporters say, of the protection and security offered by | :39:48. | :39:55. | |
the union. The big banking institutions were at the centre of | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
the recent financial collapse, but supporters of the union would argue | :39:59. | :40:05. | |
it is -- its interconnectedness helped people whether the storm and | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
it would do again if necessary. With the year to go milestone having | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
passed by with much fanfare, campaigners are taking their message | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
to the doorsteps in a bid to hammer it home. The main message we have | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
seen from "Better Together" is it has the rest of both worlds, at the | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
moment this is not a debate between Scotland and the rest of the UK, it | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
moment this is not a debate between is a bait here about the best future | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
for Scotland and from our point of view, we have the best of both | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
worlds, we can take decisions here in Scotland but we are part of a | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
whole, a community of nations across these islands will stop stop. | :40:42. | :40:52. | |
Supporters of independence have a different perspective. According to | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
them, Scotland is being led down a dark path that plays on a fear of | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
the unknown, the accusation is that the "Better Together" campaign are | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
attempting to scare voters by suggesting that in an independent | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
Scotland, a fright looks round every corner. Accused of being short on | :41:09. | :41:16. | |
answers, yes Scotland say the upcoming paper will flesh out the | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
campaign for independence insisting project fear, as it has been dubbed, | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
is destined to fail. The important thing is, get the government you | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
vote for in Scotland, we don't often get that. Set the agenda, take part | :41:29. | :41:37. | |
in democracy, and let's make your community and your country what you | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
want it to be. I think that's the bonus that people are tapping into. | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
As for the debate itself, something of an awkward triangle has emerged. | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
Alistair Darling, the leader of the better campaign in pain, wants to | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
debate with Alex Salmond, who says he's not interested, and he says he | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
wants to debate with the organ grinder, David Cameron. This week, | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
David Cameron has written to Alex Salmond says he won't face him and | :42:04. | :42:10. | |
he should face Alistair Darling instead. One of those questions that | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
need to be answered ahead of the big Western next September. | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
I'm now joined live from Edinburgh by the former Labour Chancellor and | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
leader of the "Better Together" campaign, Alistair Darling. Thanks | :42:20. | :42:27. | |
for joining us. First, let's look at this TV debate issue. The Prime | :42:27. | :42:33. | |
Minister, reiterating that he wouldn't debate with Alex Salmond | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
and it was up to you to debate with him. But Alex Salmond says David | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
Cameron is in an impossible position. He is willing to step in | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
and take part in the debate but not actually debate the issue itself. We | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
know what Alex Salmond is up to here, he wants to make this a | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
contest between Scotland against England. People aren't going to fall | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
for that. This is a debate we need to have within Scotland is to the | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
future of our country. Where do we stand, where do we go from here? | :43:03. | :43:09. | |
When Sami people get their information from television, it | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
would be a huge mistake not to have a debate between those of us who | :43:13. | :43:20. | |
live in Scotland, who have about on this referendum, as to the key | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
issues, whether it is Europe, pensions, we saw bogus claims being | :43:23. | :43:30. | |
made this week, all in relation to the currency of the future of our | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
country. Alex Salmond 's problem is not David Cameron, it is that he is | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
failing to convince the people of Scotland, it is an argument he needs | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
to have within Scotland not outside. But who do you percent apart from | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
the voters of Edinburgh South West? I am part of a campaign seeking to | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
persuade people that we are stronger together as part of the UK. In this | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
campaign there will be two opposing sides, "Better Together" against the | :43:59. | :44:05. | |
SNP side. It is up to each of us to decide who we put forward but I can | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
see what Alex Salmond is up to, he wants to make it at contest between | :44:09. | :44:14. | |
Scotland and England, he wants to create divisions where there | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
shouldn't be. Rather than continuing this silly posturing, he would be | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
better to knuckle down join with us, speak to the broadcasters and see | :44:22. | :44:26. | |
what we can arrange. Instead of calling it posturing that you not | :44:26. | :44:31. | |
think it is natural progression from the two men signing the Edinburgh | :44:31. | :44:40. | |
agreement? David Cameron has made clear that he regards this as being | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
a matter of the people living in Scotland who are going to vote in | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
the referendum next year. He has said it is up to the people of | :44:49. | :44:54. | |
Scotland. Alex Salmond is saying he does not want to debate with the | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
people of Scotland, he wants to debate with someone else. David | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
Cameron has said he's not going to debate, so why doesn't he accept | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
that, we should start dealing with issues that matter, like pensions. | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
When you have Nicola Sturgeon saying that somehow we can retire earlier | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
and it was affordable, but then admitted that she had no idea what | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
the cost was, or when we discovered that Scottish schemes would have to | :45:22. | :45:25. | |
be fully funded, this is one issue which the Scottish people deserve to | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
have debated so that people can actually understand the risks, they | :45:30. | :45:34. | |
can understand what the Nationalists are offering. If the pensions is | :45:34. | :45:43. | |
anything to go by, it will be an act of fiction. With Alex Salmond saying | :45:43. | :45:49. | |
he wanted to debate with the organ grinder, what does that make you? Do | :45:49. | :45:55. | |
you find that offensive? Know, if you have no Alex Salmond for long | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
enough, these things run off your back. -- if you have known him. I am | :45:58. | :46:06. | |
not bothered about name-calling. The people of Scotland, there is every | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
chance that if this remains as a political spat that people will turn | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
off. None of us can afford that. This is the biggest issue affecting | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
people living in Scotland, within 300 years. We deserve better than | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
political posturing. What we are entitled to is a proper debate where | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
we can look at the facts and reach a decision in a grown-up way, that is | :46:29. | :46:36. | |
what I will pursue. We are looking at the one-year countdown, two weeks | :46:36. | :46:41. | |
on from that, how significant is the one-year countdown for your | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
campaign? The campaign will gather pace between now and next September, | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
I have already said on numerous occasions, it's a ludicrously long | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
campaign but that was Alex Salmond 's decision. What we need to do | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
between now and then is look at the things that will matter in deciding | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
whether or not we want to become independent, look at things like | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
what currency we will use. If there isn't a currency union, what does | :47:08. | :47:14. | |
that mean for Scotland? I mentioned pensions. You can't have a debate | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
that depends upon all these claims being made, which falls apart | :47:19. | :47:24. | |
whenever experts look at them. In issues like Europe, defence, these | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
are the issues people want to see discussed, they want to consider the | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
facts before it comes to a decision. We will continue to make a positive | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
case for being part of the UK, we will also not be put off challenging | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
some of the lead Chris claims being made by the Nationalists which we | :47:41. | :47:48. | |
have seen fall apart. The King at the polls, do you sometimes think it | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
will be fine, do you think you are in danger of being complacent? -- | :47:52. | :47:58. | |
looking at the polls. The don't knows could play a big part in the | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
campaign. I have been around long enough to know that opinion polls | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
are all very well. There are a lot of people who have to make their | :48:10. | :48:12. | |
minds up, people can shift either wager in the course of what is a | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
very long campaign. This campaign won't be finished until the polls | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
close in September next year. It is better to be ahead and behind, let's | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
not kid ourselves, but there is an awful lot of uncertainty around and | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
all the more reason why people in Scotland are entitled to have a | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
grown-up debate on television and the other media so they can discuss | :48:33. | :48:41. | |
these issues. The things that will affect their job prospects, their | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
security in their old age and what is looking best for Scotland as a | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
whole. A lot of that could be resolved with the publication of a | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
white paper coming out in November. I know you are ready and waiting to | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
pounce on currency, pensions, debt. Do you think this mega C -- negative | :48:57. | :49:03. | |
response could backfire on "Better Together"? Every time I'd do | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
interviews like this I make the Together"? Every time I'd do | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
point that there is a positive case for remaining part of the UK in | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
terms of the opportunities that come for our people, as well as the fact | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
we can share risks. You mentioned the collapse of the banks five years | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
ago, which I couldn't have done if I was just crying on a Scottish | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
Treasury, it wouldn't have been big enough. There is our influence on | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
the EU and the cultural and emotional ties between the countries | :49:31. | :49:37. | |
of the United Kingdom. But in Russian to this white paper, I am | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
seriously concerned, as a result of what we saw, that the Scottish | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
Government is producing statistics which are highly dubious and dodgy. | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
Frankly, I expect better and there is a real risk that the civil | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
service, who will serve fearlessly... | :49:55. | :50:01. | |
We have spoken about pensions but I want you to pick up on the point | :50:01. | :50:07. | |
about the scaremongering. I know Better Together they scaremongering | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
Bingle but this has been a fairly negative campaign so far. Let me | :50:12. | :50:18. | |
finish. What is the real positive case for the union? What is the | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
positive case for remaining in the United Kingdom? I will give you two | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
examples of what you call negativity. We asked where the legal | :50:27. | :50:32. | |
opinion was that nothing would change as far as Europe concerned. | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
There never was a legal opinion. You may say that is negative, I think a | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
public service was done there in exposing that claim for what it | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
was. Secondly, I will mention pensions again. You cannot go around | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
saying, don't worry, we will pay you more pensions... You have mentioned | :50:50. | :50:56. | |
pensions several times. I have. What is the positive case for Britain? | :50:56. | :51:02. | |
Let me finish this. What I am saying is that women people make claims | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
that don't stand up, you call it negative asking about them but I | :51:07. | :51:13. | |
think people deserve to know. -- I am saying that when people make | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
claims. If you look at the big economic case, for jobs and | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
prospects, you have a market of 60 million people, not 5 million. If | :51:23. | :51:30. | |
you take away our universities, some are world-class, they have access to | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
UK research funds which would not have. If you look at the vast | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
resources the images can draw on because whilst it might be | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
administered separately it is part of one that stretches across the | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
United Kingdom. Also, it is not just the opportunities which we depend | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
upon to get jobs but the risk-sharing. The fact that we have | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
an ageing population that is spread across the shoulders of 60 million, | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
not 5 million. We have huge benefits from being able to share those risks | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
if something goes wrong, as we have seen in the banking crisis. I have | :52:04. | :52:06. | |
mentioned, there are very many powerful cases. We have one of the | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
oldest economic, social and political unions and it works | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
because there are strong ties and bonds between the two others. You | :52:15. | :52:18. | |
asked for the positive case, there it is. I want one final point. | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
Results this week revealed only 80% of people here think they are | :52:23. | :52:29. | |
Scottish and British. That was quite a surprising result and perhaps bad | :52:29. | :52:35. | |
news for your campaign. You may consider yourself to be Scottish and | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
are now less Scottish than believing -- for believing we are better as | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
part of the United Kingdom. This was a snapshot in 2011. You're talking | :52:43. | :52:48. | |
about Paul's earlier, it is very interesting. I believe we can | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
convince the majority of people that there is a strong and -- strong case | :52:52. | :52:59. | |
for being Better Together as part of the United Kingdom. We will continue | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
to do so and ask hard questions. Alistair Darling, thank you very | :53:03. | :53:05. | |
much. The north-west of England is hosting | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
this year's UK Conservative party conference. Thousands of Tories from | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
across Britain are heading to Manchester and many from Scotland | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
are heading south too. The party appears to be taking the referendum | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
seriously, with Ruth Davidson being granted an absolutely plum slot this | :53:16. | :53:26. | |
year. The PM arrived in Manchester | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
yesterday evening. At this stage, David Cameron needs to start putting | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
the trips an election footing for 2015. -- the troops. The Tories have | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
a good news story to tell the economy as looks like there is | :53:39. | :53:44. | |
turning. Labour perhaps have their own positive tale with a plan to | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
freeze energy prices. It comes across as being on the side of the | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
people. While the Conservatives might be regarded as a little | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
distant. The Tories will want to ensure they side with ordinary folk. | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
There is also a very clear message to voters in Scotland. All the facts | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
and figures stack up for the UK but I want to say very clearly that we | :54:06. | :54:13. | |
want you to say. We think that the United Kingdom is better off with | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
Scotland insider, not just dropped on being better off. He was the man | :54:16. | :54:22. | |
who enabled the referendum to happen. Although Mister Cameron | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
doesn't want to be the Prime Minister who lets Scotland leave the | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
UK on his watch. The Tories are hypersensitive to the needs of | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
Scotland. The Strathclyde omission is looking at more powers for | :54:34. | :54:37. | |
Holyrood. To be clear, the menu of what is on offer will be made after | :54:37. | :54:43. | |
the referendum. All the party leaders, conservative, Liberal | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
Democrat, leader, -- labour, have all said that there is an open | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
discussion and debate about what powers can be devolved, how we get | :54:51. | :54:56. | |
into an even better shape. Let's have that debate after discovering | :54:56. | :55:01. | |
whether Scotland wants to stay or go. Ruth Davidson is the woman | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
leading the party's charge in Scotland. The Tories claim they have | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
been revitalised by the referendum campaign. A commitment to the fight | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
ahead is evident from where they have decided to place her speech, | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
right before the PM's Before we came on-air this morning, I caught up | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
with the Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson before she | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
headed to conference. I began by asking her if the Tories | :55:22. | :55:30. | |
now "got" Scotland. First of all, I don't accept the premise of your | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
question. I am passionate about Scotland and the Conservatives that | :55:35. | :55:37. | |
I know are passionate about Scotland and the United Kingdom. We have said | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
that we want to take a full part in the campaign going forward. We are | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
the most committed on the union side of any of the three men parties, as | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
polling has shown. -- three main parties. We strongly believe that | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
Scotland's best days are ahead of it, as part of the United Kingdom. | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
Will then not BACs of unknown faces in the crowd? Not many Scottish | :56:00. | :56:06. | |
Tories. On the contrary. We'll take a big contingent. If you're talking | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
it elected Westminster MPs then we would like have more but our MSP | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
group will be down. Over 100 councillors across Scotland, an | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
activist based and over 1000 people have said that while they are not | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
members of the Conservative party, they want to stand and fight with us | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
on this issue. A big issue to Margaret Thatcher at the | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
conference. If Scotland finally getting over her, do you think? Are | :56:33. | :56:38. | |
you finally put in her memory to rest to help revitalise your party? | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
If you are talking about Margaret Thatcher's popularity, good to | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
remember that her general election in 1979 when she recorded a double | :56:45. | :56:51. | |
the votes that Alex Salmond got in 2010 or 2011. She had a residence in | :56:52. | :56:59. | |
Scotland but was very rising. Not just in Scotland but right across | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
the UK. While there were many people that think, in fact, she has been | :57:03. | :57:11. | |
voted Scotland's best and worst peacetime feminist by Scots. She | :57:11. | :57:17. | |
does polarise. Not just by the contribution that she made, not just | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
across the UK, but in terms of fighting the cold war, fighting for | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
freedom. -- peacetime Prime Minister. It is right and proper | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
that at the Conservative party conference, that we recognise her | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
achievements. You are writing in one of the Sunday newspapers about the | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
changing Conservative party. I have the toxic legacy, as many people | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
have been putting it, is now over. -- perhaps the toxic legacy. I never | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
called at that. Do you think you are now trying to get over that, to | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
refresh the party? Are you trying to put that images? We are working hard | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
in Scotland. After 1997, when we lost all of our MPs at Westminster, | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
it was very difficult for the party, it was hard for us not to be trendy | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
little bit and we perhaps did. We perhaps spent too long talking to | :58:07. | :58:11. | |
ourselves and are not different people across the country. I am | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
trying to change that. Working very hard to bring forward policies, | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
bring forward people to generate policies that matter to them, | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
perhaps not Conservatives. We are also changing the face of the | :58:23. | :58:26. | |
Scottish Conservative party. We are attracting a large number of younger | :58:26. | :58:31. | |
people, people in the 18-25 age group in our second best voting | :58:31. | :58:36. | |
group. We are seeing a new generation of conservatives become | :58:36. | :58:44. | |
elected. More than one third of our councillors in the 2012 election | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
have never stood before, many in their 20s and 30s. We have a good | :58:47. | :58:51. | |
young candidate at the more or less. You will see changes in the future. | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
Lots of changes on the face of it but do you think it could still be | :58:56. | :59:01. | |
regarded as the nasty party? In a new book, serialised in the Sunday | :59:01. | :59:06. | |
Telegraph, David Cameron is quoted as talking about Same Sex Marriage | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
Bill "if I had known what it was going to be like, I would not have | :59:09. | :59:14. | |
done it. " Does that suggest that is the real face of the Conservative | :59:14. | :59:19. | |
party question why absolutely not. I have had on relations with the prime | :59:19. | :59:23. | |
ministers and he is 100% committed to Same Sex Marriage Bill stop he | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
believes that love is love and commitment is commitment and that | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
the time is right for people who love each other and are committed to | :59:30. | :59:33. | |
have that recognised by the state and not have the Government tell | :59:33. | :59:36. | |
them that their love is less valid than other people. He feels | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
incredibly strongly about that and so dry. But Ed Miliband stole a real | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
market on the Conservative party with his promise to freeze energy | :59:45. | :59:52. | |
prices if he becomes PM. What can the Conservatives do? It looks like | :59:52. | :59:57. | |
you are on the side of a vested interest and not of ordinary people. | :59:57. | :00:03. | |
First of all, I think it was a headline grabber from Ed Miliband, I | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
will give you that, but it started to fall apart is that as he said it. | :00:06. | :00:11. | |
Not with ordinary people. Your own commentators have said so. If you're | :00:11. | :00:16. | |
looking at how to be on the side of ordinary people, look at what we | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
inherited and what a Conservative government has done. 1.4 million new | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
private-sector jobs. 25 million people having their taxation cut. | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
2.4 million taken out of tax altogether. That matters, not just | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
because of the numbers but, because it is the best way to improve | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
people's life chances, prosperity and opportunity, to make sure that | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
they get a job and work. That those jobs are there and that they get to | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
take, keep more of that money and run pocket. So this is the fight for | :00:48. | :00:55. | |
more of -- for the 2015 election Mister Mark when it comes to the | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
referendum, yours seem at the conference is why Britain is put | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
together. Looking at the Scottish census result when most people see | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
themselves as Scottish and not British, that is not good for the | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
Conservatives, is it? I do not recognise how you have got from one | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
to another because I feel Scottish, I would always say that I am | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
Scottish first and British after. But that does not mean that I did | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
not want to remain part of the United Kingdom. I think that is true | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
for a number of Scots and if we are... And you are using research | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
there, if you're looking at boat across the country, consistently, a | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
number of Scots say they feel the same. There are 11 months to go | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
until the referendum and we will fight for every vote. We will show | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
why we are better off financially, have more stability, safer, but the | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
opportunities that we have going forward are standing with our | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
friends and neighbours in the other home countries. Let's look at what | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
might be an offer after the referendum if there is a no sold. | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
The Strathclyde commission will vote back. Will you give the Scottish | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
people a real genuine offer about what might be available. -- if there | :02:11. | :02:19. | |
is the no vote. What we have said and have been perfectly transparent | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
from the beginning, we have asked Lord Strathclyde to go away with | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
experts, real leaders in their field, not just in politics and how | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
Westminster and Holyrood works, not just constitutional law, not just | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
economics at business people and the sort of people for whom it is | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
important that you have the constitutional right but it is what | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
you do with it that counts. How do we make life better for ordinary | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
Scots? How do we have devolution improve the life chances and job | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
prospects of Scots? The only restriction is that I have given a | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
Strathclyde commission and panel of experts is that they have to come | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
back a good time before the referendum so that the people of | :02:59. | :03:00. | |
Scotland can see what they come up referendum so that the people of | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
with. I am not going to prejudge what the come back with something | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
and I have not put any restrictions on what they look at. They can look | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
at any of policy that they so wish that that will return back before | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
the referendum so that people can see what is on the table. | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
You're watching Sunday Politics Scotland from the BBC and the time | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
is just after midday. In a moment, we'll be taking a look at the Week | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
Ahead with our guests of the day - the blogger Kate Higgins and Richard | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
Sullivan, Chair of the Glasgow Conservative Association. But first, | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
let's cross to Graham Stewart for Reporting Scotland. | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
Good afternoon. The flu vaccine is being offered for | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
the first time to every child in Scotland, in the form of a nasal | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
spray. It's part of the country's largest ever immunisation programme, | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
which has been launched by First Minister Alex Salmond, who received | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
the vaccine in a surgery in Aberdeenshire. A fifth of the | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
Scottish population will be offered a free flu vaccine, including people | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
aged over 65 and those with conditions that put them at greater | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
risk. The First Minister is urging eligible Scots to get protected | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
before the winter. A climber has died in Wester Ross. | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
Around 1:45pm yesterday, the emergency services were called to a | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
man who had collapsed in the Beinn Dearg hills. Attempts to revive him | :04:10. | :04:17. | |
failed and he died. Next of kin are being informed. | :04:17. | :04:28. | |
Now for a look at today's weather. A cracking afternoon of weather | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
across the country, including those areas that had cloud and rain | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
yesterday. Much better. There will be a bit of a breeze from the south | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
east and certainly across eastern parts, more cloud. In that sunshine | :04:40. | :04:46. | |
in the West, feeling warm. Even for the Northern Isles, after a damp, | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
cloudy morning, improving the dry and bright conditions. Staying dry | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
and settled into the season. That is the forecast for now. | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
That is all for now. Thanks Graham. Now in a moment, | :05:00. | :05:06. | |
we'll be discussing the big events coming up this week at Holyrood, but | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
first, seven names will be in the election | :05:08. | :05:24. | |
to replace the former MP. The Scottish and UK governments were set | :05:24. | :05:32. | |
to agree an early decision. The two governments should strike a deal | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
before Christmas. Supporters were clear about the consequences. MSPs | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
at Holyrood discuss controversial plans to scrap the need for evidence | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
to be backed up uncorroborated income rated court cases. Nearly two | :05:44. | :05:52. | |
thirds of people in Scotland identify themselves as Scottish | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
only, according to results from the latest census. It was the first | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
survey to include a question on national identity. And a new shared | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
equity scheme designed to help people get onto and up the housing | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
ladder was unveiled by the Scottish Government. They said the scheme | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
could be a game changing initiative for the industry. Now let's look at | :06:12. | :06:19. | |
the big stories of the week and what's in store for the week ahead. | :06:19. | :06:25. | |
Joining me now is the Burdz Eye View blogger Kate Higgins and Chairman of | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
the Glasgow Conservative Association, Richard Sullivan. | :06:29. | :06:39. | |
Thanks to joining me. First, let's look at it together. The Alistair | :06:39. | :06:47. | |
Darling interview, this arguing going on about who will debate with | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
whom, what do you make of what he had to say? Let's set out people 's | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
rentals. A list that Darling is effectively a backbench opposition | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
MP with too much time on his hand. Alex Salmond is the Democrat can the | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
elected First Minister of Scotland. There is an issue about parity and | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
respect. David Cameron is his equivalent in the UK in terms of | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
being elected Prime Minister. There is no doubt that the debate should | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
be between the two democratically elected leaders of Scotland and the | :07:19. | :07:26. | |
UK. Why make it Scotland versus the UK, that is his point? That is what | :07:26. | :07:32. | |
the debate could be seen as? The issue is that David Cameron is the | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
issue of the UK -- promised of the UK and a supporter of the union. | :07:39. | :07:48. | |
Alex Salmond is it critically elected leader -- the democratically | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
elected leader of Scotland, that is who the debate should be between. I | :07:52. | :08:01. | |
think the point made about McHattie parity is a good one. But I is | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
essentially a debate between a Scot against another Scot. He is always | :08:07. | :08:13. | |
telling the Prime Minister to keep out of Scotland 's business, so he | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
really is just wanting to cherry pick as to when he wants to engage | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
with the Prime Minister or not, which is wrong. Better to die -- | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
"Better Together" is led by Alistair Darling, I think he's the best | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
person to abate against. But who does Alistair Darling represent? The | :08:31. | :08:39. | |
same point as what was said about Alex Salmond presenting Scotland, he | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
doesn't in terms of this debate, he represents the people who agree with | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
him. Otherwise they would be 100 isn't agreement that Scotland should | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
be independent. The same goes for Alistair Darling can he represent | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
the Scots like me. But nobody elected Alistair Darling. The people | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
elected Alex Salmond and the SNP to form the Scottish Government. | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
Knowing full well that a referendum on independence was part of the | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
platform. So they voted for the SNP and our First Minister to lead | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
Scotland in that debate, nobody elected Alistair Darling into his | :09:14. | :09:20. | |
position. What do you make about the more general debate, we have had the | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
set piece interviews from Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling, what | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
about the debate going ahead for the year? I think it's really exciting, | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
it is hotting up, we are off the presses and into the substance of | :09:33. | :09:39. | |
the debate. And there are big issues to be debated, I found it helpful in | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
terms of setting a deadline for when people need to put forward their | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
options and their case to the people of Scotland so we all have time to | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
do that. I have to say the Scottish Government is working to that | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
timetable, it will publish its White Paper well before Christmas, when we | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
get the options from the various parties, who knows, whether we get | :10:00. | :10:06. | |
them before the referendum or not remains to be seen. A campaign that | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
is too long, as Alistair Darling was saying? I think so, a lot of people | :10:11. | :10:19. | |
are feeling the fatigue of this, but I think both parties have to up | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
their game. I think there is a year to go, we are getting to the issues, | :10:22. | :10:28. | |
I do a lot of the issues we have had so far, pensions, Europe, they need | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
to be clearer and less duplicity between both groups. Because there | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
is counter argument counterargument. I think it should be a more honest | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
debate. Let's look at your party, you restore what of the Tory party. | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
We have this interview with Ruth Davidson. The party... | :10:50. | :10:59. | |
Do you agree? Yes, I spoke at a public meeting during the week where | :10:59. | :11:07. | |
got a random applause for everything I set and the Labour candidate | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
didn't, or indeed the nationalist. I do know that is my own charisma | :11:13. | :11:20. | |
perhaps! But I have been a candidate at various elections since 2004 and | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
the reception of the doors to buy have personally had has changed, it | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
is warmer. What do you make of Ruth Davidson 's leadership? She able to | :11:31. | :11:37. | |
shed the toxic brand? As it was regarded by many? I think one of the | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
things that is positive is as Ruth says, they are bringing in younger | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
people into politics. I might not agree with younger people supporting | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
the Conservatives but more people in politics is a good thing. But she's | :11:51. | :11:58. | |
up against it. She is detoxifying the brand but she has her UK | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
counterparts coming out and taking us into legal battles to defend the | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
bankers, you have the hated bedroom tax doing its worst in terms of | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
hitting the most vulnerable in Scotland as well as other welfare | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
reforms and you have also got news of the latest Tory donor to be mired | :12:14. | :12:21. | |
in a city scandal. If that is the justification, she has her work cut | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
out. One other story, a call for the shake-up of the Yes campaign, Blair | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
Jenkins has been handed an almost impossible task, a quick reaction | :12:32. | :12:40. | |
from you? It is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. It is the | :12:40. | :12:46. | |
product, not the way it is structured. Blair Jenkins, an | :12:46. | :12:54. | |
impossible task? They say they have clearly defined goals and everything | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
is where they want it to be. Yes Scotland has always been about a | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
grassroots campaign, it is huge, it grows day by day. Margo should be | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
listened to carefully, she has important things to say, what we | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
need to do is make sure there is a role for all the fantastic people | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
who are on the advisory board, because they are fantastic at taking | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
the positive message of what independence could mean two Scots | :13:20. | :13:24. | |
will stop I've heard them speaking at panels, I think there is a role | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
for all of them to play. We will have to leave it there, thank you | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
both very much. That's all from the us this week. I'll be back at the | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
same time next week. Until then, goodbye. | :13:38. | :13:41. |