14/07/2013 Sunday Politics South East

government plans to protect marine wildlife risking putting the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2221 seconds

fisherman of Hythe Bay out of Sunday Politics in the South East.

Coming up later: Do we get the politicians we deserve? There are

question marks about the way political parties choose their

candidates to become MPs and concerns have been raised about the

Unite union's backing for Labour candidates, including two in Sussex.

So should ordinary voters get a bigger say? Well, joining me in the

studio today to discuss this and other topics is the Labour

parliamentary Candidate for Gillingham and Rainham, Paul Clark,

and the Conservative South East MEP Daniel Hannan. First, this weekend

sees the opening of a new food bank in Shoreham. Charities say more

people in the area are struggling to feed their families and are

currently having to travel to a food bank in Worthing. Earlier this week,

the Archbishop of Canterbury defended the Church's involvement in

food banks after a conservative minister suggested more people were

using food banks simply because they could. Daniel Hannan, the fact

there's a food bank now being opened in Shoreham, is that a sign that

coalition policies are failing people here in the South East?

the use of food banks went up ten times over the last government, so

no. You can't possibly draw that from that. Food banks did not exist

until just over a decade ago. The reason that use has increased its

because people are now referred by job centres to food banks directly,

which has been a long-standing demand of the charity that set them

up in the first place and who are delighted that this is now happened.

There is a real issue of getting the balance right. It is an important

part of the coalition policy that working should always pay. You

shouldn't be better off on benefits than you are in work, and that

involves making some difficult choices. You mentioned the trust are

delighted that these referrals are coming in, but they say there is a

clear link between benefit delays or changes to benefits and the fact

that the number of people relying on food banks has gone up. Benefit

delays are falling. No system is perfect, but the time taken is down

and the number of cases processed immediately is a higher percentage,

but the real issue is, are we being fair to those who are paying their

taxes and striving and then find that they are taking home less? Of

hope for would agree with me on this. You have got to get the

balance right, but clearly the trust is not happy that they have seen

152,000 people in the last three months which is three times the

level in 2012. The minister is not living in the real world of the

things it is just because people go along because they can get free

food. The Archbishop Canterbury did make the point that a lot of this

was about the failure in delivery, it wasn't because people were being

denied an offence, it was because there was a problem in the system

perhaps. But the trust report says that 20%, it actually is because of

direct benefit changes, changes to the invalidity benefit... But those

changes have only coming very recently since April. Before that,

we did see an increase, so it does suggest... And ten years before

that. What this is showing us, as far as the coalition government is

concerned, they think this is working because there are more

people now that do need to come and get food vouchers. I have to tell

you, where we were doing two or three a week, we are now giving

vouchers to three a day. That is not because we want to give them away,

it is because people need them. from Daniel Hannan and Paul Clark

later, but now, as campaign slogans go, "Save The Green-tongued Spoon

Worm of Hythe Bay" isn't the most well known, but the new Marine

Conservation Zones planned by the government are designed to do just

that. Hythe Bay is one of five zones proposed in the South East and due

to come into operation later this year. But local fisherman are

furious that their traditional fishing waters could become

off-limits, damaging their livelihoods. They say the government

have been taken in hook, line and neighbours the green tunnels C worm

and the sea mouse -- green-tongued worm. They live on the soft bed here

in Hythe Bay. The covenanters browsing to create a Marine

conservation zone here to protect them, but that fishermen from highs,

and other places nearby who rely on the basis that could put them out of

business. It is who we are. It is in the blood. I don't want to be the

last in the line of the family here. It would be devastating to a lot of

livelihoods. Completely unnecessary, that is the worst thing

about it. There's no evidence to prove that fishing harming the green

tongues prune worm. But fishermen say the population of spoon worms is

on the increase. The fishermen 's MP has raised the issue in Parliament.

Now he has secured a visit from the fisheries minister, Richard Benyon,

next week. The fishermen have an interest to sustain them. The marine

life, both living in the sand and also on the seabed, has been

preserved as well. Fishermen also recommended other areas where more

conservation provision could be introduced and wouldn't affect the

current fishing. The fishermen themselves understand why

conservation zones might be necessary, they are just challenging

why Hythe Bay is included. This area could become the new Hythe Bay

compensate -- conservation zone. What is key is what status the

government gives it. The seabed will be closely monitored. But if it is a

so-called recovery zone, controls will be much tighter to protect the

marine life living on the seabed will stop that could mean a total

ban on fishing here. This family does 90% of their fishing in what

could become the zone. They say they would be forced to sell their boat

and fish shop and wouldn't be able to supply local restaurants. Terry

thinks ministers and conservationists misunderstand local

fishing methods. They are under the impression that the trawling done in

that area is using big heavy trawls seen on TV by millions of people.

But it is not anything like that at all. The area we fish, the tools

used in that area are really light and just skim over the top. Anything

living there is not harmed. The mud gets washed away in the storms and

it comes back and the fish is in abundance every year. The fishermen

have done no harm whatsoever. We look after it ourselves, it is our

future. These fishing boats to the British High Court victory over

industrial scale trawlers this week as the government ruled fishing

quotas could be redistributed in favour of smaller vessels. But

fishermen say this new threat could be even more harmful to their

industry and communities. Hythe Bay is known locally as the million

pound Bay, so an estimation of just �3000 on the annual value of fishing

here has been laughed out of the water. You could look dashing could

put a lot more zeros on the end of that. Every fishermen down there,

there's fishmongers, restaurants, but more so tourism. A lot of people

come down to the beach to look at the boats. It is a big tourist

attraction. To lose them would be a major upset. The government is due

to announce his decision in September, but when the minister

visits on Wednesday, can he convince the fishermen is interested in

conserving their future as well as that of the creatures who share the

sea below's this has left a very bad taste in our mouth. We feel that we

have been hijacked. It is not fair. So has the government been fair to

fishermen? Lucinda caught up with Richard Benyon. They have been very

vocal and very correct in the way they have lobbied. We have a

consultation which is ended and we are examining all the 40,000

responses we have had. We will make a decision in the autumn. The point

is that we are able to consider not just the environmental factors but

also the activities like fishing and make sure that we're trying to get

the balance right. It is all down to not just what we say in terms of the

lines on the map, but how we manage that Marine conservation zone which

will mean whether they are able to continue making a living or if we

will impact on their lives. That is the message I absolutely get other

want to make sure we're getting it right for them and the environment.

D-Link they think they are listened to? If it does come in, it is a

permanent change. They tell me they don't feel like they have been

consulted. In a macro that is one of the problems we have had. 127 sites

coming forward, if they're going to stop people doing things in the

seas, we have got to have a really good idea about what is there and

some really good scientific evidence. Frankly, there wasn't the

scientific evidence to back up a lot of the 127 sites that were brought

forward. So we had to go and find it. I'm absolutely determined that

we are fair that if there are absolutely vital valuable seabed

features that are being destroyed by certain activities, we have got to

protect them. That is part of our natural heritage, it is part of our

duty and society wants that. But if we can live together, and there are

so many activities which are not harmful to the environment, fishing

activities that are not harmful, they should be allowed to continue,

and so it is a question of making sure we have got the right evidence,

making sure we are proportionate in how we do the management plans and I

hope we can find a solution that means everyone will be happy.

Well, I certainly know they question the science they think they hope to

show you some of their evidence on Wednesday. You will understand

people say I listen to much to fishermen, and fishermen say listen

to much the scientists. It is a balance. But fishermen say that that

will be their business gone. What they do happens? That presupposes

that it will happen. Lester C. This could be designated and given the

status, conservation objectives that allows them to continue their

business. I hope that is the case. -- let just see. There is only

fishermen over posts over the last three decades who have gone out of

business for a variety of reasons because they haven't been enough

fish them to catch. The system of managing their fisheries has been so

wrong. We are gradually turning that around and trying to make sure that

we have sensible management of our fisheries and then people can move

what they do in certain areas, there are some highly mobile fleets that

will be catching fish of one post one day and another the next. I

recognise the fact that local fishermen like the ones at Hythe Bay

are inshore fishermen, they have a knowledge of those waters that go

back generations. These are not people who can suddenly upped sticks

and go to another part of the will stop I want to make sure that we're

working with them -- go to another part of the sea. I want to make sure

we're working with them and I'm not be judging any decision we are about

to make but I do have a very strong affinity for local fishing

communities. Sure they will have a lot to show you on Wednesday. Thank

you very much. Daniel Hannan it doesn't sound like anyone is

particularly happy with this. Is it a fudge from the Minister? He is a

decent guy and he is playing a bad hand as well as he can. The reason

it is a bad hand is because the deck has been stacked against every UK

fisheries Minister since Edward Heath gave away the richest renewal

rate area around our coast. How can you defend a skipper in the

south-east of England to tie up his boat when he knows that there are

foreign vessels plundering the same waters. Conservation has to depend

on ownership to have got an incentive on preserving stocks.

one of these zones could be in the Medway S three, would you support

that -- estuary? It is right with the minister says in terms of

getting the balance right, but if you're going to end up, and if the

scientific evidence says that there should be a zone, then he will have

to make that decision. But at the same time you have to recognise that

there are families at the end of this who are affected, and therefore

the government would need to put in place popper supports to help those

families relocate or find other ways forward. I do say that this week we

have seen the decision from the High Court for the fisheries industry

which is welcome now that they can have some of those spare quotas

allocated to small fisheries rather than large. Questions were raised

this week over the Unite Union's involvement in two Labour selections

in Brighton and Hove. It comes as the Conservative Party sends out

ballot papers for their European election candidates, with the Leader

of the Conservative Group in the European Parliament and South East

MEP Richard Ashworth failing to win automatic re-selection. So how

democratic are the two main parties when it comes to selecting their

candidates? Paul Clark, Labour have been in the headlines over this. It

is a huge issue for Labour with the backing of the unions being such a

big popper for them but now it has come to, how do you think Ed

Miliband can prove to people that he is taking control of this and that

places like Brighton where it is suggested that it could've happened,

but it could have been? He needs to continue to do the work it started

when became leader where he said about opening up the party,

engagement with communities about the formulation of ideas, policies

and meeting the aspirations of people across the length and breadth

of the country. That is why we had re-founding Labour and that has

opened up the party in various ways. That is what he has started,

and then of course this week we have seen his announcement in terms of

wanting to actually make sure that individual trade union members make

a decision as to what parties they want that money to go to, and in

addition, he had said about primary selection for certainly the

elections in 2016 in London and then looking at constituency parties.

seem pretty sure it didn't happen in Brighton, but have you checked the

party list? Bretigny-sur-Orge let me say to this. We have nothing to fear

because I can tell you, 20 years ago, on the floor of the party --

let me say this. Have nothing to fear. Something that happened in

Falkirk, it has been referred to the police in the right way. The reason

I say Brighton has been kept out... It is my home constituency, I don't

know if you are on Twitter, but I remember the delighted tweet saying

congratulations to Nancy that the Unite candidate. Is said Brighton

and Kent town and Hove weather to that were being... The spotlight

very much on Labour at the moment and their links with the unions, but

went comes the Conservatives, people shocked that they didn't make the

top of the list. Someone was saying it was because they were too much of

a Europhile. As a transparent way to select candidates? -- is it? They

don't change hands from one party to another. The MPs in those seats,

they are only going to lose their jobs if they lose the right to wear

the red or blue rosette on polling day. Whenever there is a conflict

between what local people want and what their whips want, irrational is

that MPs and the overseas is to go with what their whips want. The

great thing about primaries say abolish safe seats. They allow

everybody to have a say in who should be the label conservative or

Lib Dem candidate. They haven't way around the cost is that when

there is an election happening anywhere, you should give any party

or any group of citizens the right to piggyback that collection and

require the retaining officer... say it would get rid of safe seats

and we have a lot of safe seats in Kent. Which ones do you think we

might see getting kicked out if we had open primaries? Xxx an MP who

gets a reputation for voting with his party rather than what his

constituents want... If there is an MP who is corrupt or useless or

consistently facing the wrong way... We have run out of time but

we have got time for a round-up of is very concerned by video footage

appearing to show Sussex officers catering and kicking a suspected

shoplifter to the ground. An investigation has been launched.

Sussex police say the action was necessary to safely arrest the man.

Will become more common in the UK. The green councils strikes back.

Following a decline in the city's recycling rates, giant communal

recycling bins will be laid out. With a 10% cut to its budget, Kent

County Council has announced this week that it needs to save a further

�239 million by 2018. It is hit central government witty hard over

the last few years. And finally, the Archbishop of Canterbury is handing

it... That hope the bank takes criticism better than the king did.

Applecart, we heard the Archbishop of Canterbury talking about

quantitive easing. He seems like a very outspoken leader of the church?

He has the right position to be able to contribute to greater to

democracy, and he does see through the church organisations what is

really happening on the ground. So when he spoke out about food banks

earlier on, is because he knows from what is happening on the streets.

How do you think politicians react to someone of his stature speaking

in that way? Here speaking as a private citizen. It is at Regis. It

hits people who are dependent on a fixed income. It has been an

absolutely scandalous thing by which wealth is removed from the poor and