22/01/2012 Sunday Politics South East

And in the south-east, angry farmers demand new laws to fight

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1767 seconds

the fly-tippers who keep on dumping Welcome to the Sunday Politics in

the south-east. Coming up. Living on the breadline. The towns where

child poverty is more than twice the national average. But first let

me introduce you to our guests of the day, the MP for Rochester Mark

Reckless and laider of Hastings Borough Council John Terry, they

will be here for the next 20 minutes with their views on the

most talked about events in the region. Let us start with the most

explosive story of the weeks. Plans for a massive hub airport in north

Kent. They will be included in a Government consultation on airport

expansion. We know that Boris Johnson is passionately in favour.

Mark Reckless, is there any that could persuade you this is a good

idea? No, it is a bad idea. Boris seems to think the peninsula is in

London. A new airport will be more expensive than expanding an

existing one. It would add between �50 and �80 every plane ticket.

Boris doesn't have any answers to the most basic of questions. How is

he going to persuade airlines to move there. It would be devastating

for environment. I don't think it is realistic or sensible. Every

time we talk about this on radio Kent we get more people saying they

like the sound of it. I think it's to do with jobs. Jeremy you would

like to have more jobs in your region. If somebody was offering to

put this in your backyard what would you be saying. It would be

hypothetical having an airport of that size anywhere near Hastings.

You would have to consider it wouldn't you. You would have to

weigh it up against the environmental impact, where ever it

is going to be. I think the Government has got itself in a

difficult position. It didn't want to expand Heathrow and now looking

at Boris island there is the potential to expand Gatwick, which

is reasonably linked to hastesings, I think we should look at the

existing airports and the potential there. When you were last in you

were talking about this idea to encourage people to get on the

housing lad e you would help them with their deposit what is the

latest. There has been a huge amount of interest. My worry is we

will be oversubscribed with the people who would like it. We now

that Kent County Council is loosely considering the idea, do you think

it's a good idea? The Government has aimed at the new build market.

In Medway we are keen to see generation and kick-start the

economy. If the Government through giving the support to mortgages can

help it that is something we would strongly support. Stay with us

because we have our big story. Imagine waking up to find someone's

dump their rubbish in your garden overnight. After you spend cash

getting rid of it someone else comes along and it happens again.

It is something farmers find themselves in with illegal fly-

tipping I seem there's is very little they can do about it. This

farm in Kent looks every inch the classic rural picture. Until you

see this. We have various thing, kitchen unit, plastic bags, hard

board. Local Authorities and the Environment Agency deal with fly-

tipling on public land. But when it comes to private land, like the

many farms spread across the south- east, the responsibility falls to

the land owners. And here it is their worst incident yet.

probably require a ten, 12 cubic yard skip for that. That is

probably going to cost you over �200 to hire. It will cost us two

men half a day's work, so we get up to �300, �400 just to deal with

this without any help from the council or local environmental

bodies and that is a costing we have to take onboard. And there

have been three flys into this in the last three months. In the last

month. On this site alone we are looking at over seven, 800 pounds.

How do you feel about that Aggrieved. Mark isn't alone. Last

year the National Farmers' Union set up a hotline to complain about

fly-tipping and one region stands out. The problem mainly occurs in

the south-east. The figures show that roughly 30% of the fly-tipping

incidents reported were in the south-east. We can only assume that

is because of the population of London, and the spreading of waste

out from that major centre of population. Farmers could be set to

suffer much more of this. The Government's farming department

DEFRA reported that fly-tipping on public land has decreased slightly.

Thought to be as an increase in enforcement action. There is

concern that the crackdown on fly- tipping on public land seems to

have led to an increase in fly- tipping on private land. Offenders

are less likely to get prosecuted as opposed to public areas where

councils have power to detect and prosecute. Although fly-tipping,

where ever it happens is a crime, councils have staff and covert

cameras to investigate. Private land owners can't do this, so they

think the Government should help them get rid of the waste that has

been tipped on their land We would like DEFRA first of all, to allow

land owners to tip fly-tipped waste without being charged for it. If

they have waist tipped on their land such as here, they have to

take it to the tip. They have to deal with it as nay see fit and in

the current circumstances they will get charged which seems unfair.

Most land we walk through is private land. To see rubbish like

this dumped, it is depressing and it is a crime. The problem on

public land isn't to be discounted. If someone illegally tips rubbish

there every 21 minutes there in the south-east. We have spoken to local

councils and it is costing many of them over �100,000 each every year.

But it is fly-tipping on private land that some would like the

Government to turn their attention to. I would like to say to DEFRA

farmers are suffering already from low prices and high costss they can

inafford to spend money on unnecessary things. This is a

criminal offence. Farmers are sick of paying for it and I would say do

something to help them. Farming is a crucial part of the rural economy.

But it is also struggling. Is it fair that farmers have to pick up

the fly-tipped waste? Along with the bill, for disposing of it?

Joining us from Hastings is Amber Rudd who is on the DEFRA Select

Committee. Nice to have you with us. Let us start with the question

attend of the report. Is it fair that farmers foot the bill when

they are victims? It is their land so when a crime is commit on their

land they are stuck with it. But in my conversations with farmers

locally, they have told me that depends very much on the council. I

mean I have been told some councils have done a good job with working

with farmers to make sure it is removed in a economical way. I take

the point as we crackdown, as we should, on the environmental crime

of fly-tipping on land generally, particularly public land, we have

to be careful it doesn't pop up in private land. What about hazardous

waste? That is very expensive and dangerous to get rid of. It is not

unreasonable they get help with the cost, if they have to take it to a

tip. They have to pay for it. Environment Agency will take

hazardous waste, but what they generally object to, is the fact

that just people get used to dumping waste in certain parts of

private land and that needs to stop. It is a crime, like any other. And

where it gets out of hand we need to have help clamping down on it.

It is our countryside isn't it. A lot of the private land we have

access to, we use it. It seems sad. Why do you think it happens on

private land? I think people who are go going to do the fly-tipping

we have seen haven't thought it through. They haven't thought

through what you say, this Sunderland we like to walk there,

that is our land to enjoy. Maybe we should have a public awareness

campaign, like the awareness campaign we have been having in

Hastings on dog fouling, that has been successful. What we should

look at is having a campaign to make people understand what they

are doing is a crime and it is antisocial and unnecessary. Mark

Reckless would you wanted any help, would you want a change in the law

so this was an area where farmerers didn't have to foot the bill?

we did in Medway to discourage householders doing this, we

restored free collection of bulky refuse, most of what we see like

this, it is commercial operator, people who are doing this as a

business, taking away, getting paid and dumping commercial waste. What

we really need is for the magistrates to take a very strong

line on this, when there is a prosecution, when the police do the

work, it is really important the courts send down really tough

sentences, to discourage this. Jeremy. From the perspective of a

Local Authority is there any money in the cough fers to help them?

an urban authority we are not faced with the same situation and we

clampdown ourselves on fly-tipping. The problem is finding out who is

responsible. Mark is right, what you showed, that wasn't an ordinary

householder putting a black bag on the wrong day, that was a business,

that business is committing an offence, the person who is shifting

it is committing an offence. Let us go back to Amber Rudd for a moment.

When you think about the material that was dumped there, there has to

be evidence in there. Surely it should be possible to find out who

is responsible. Agree. In that case I would hope they would involve the

police and clampdown and find somebody who did this. That is the

way to top stop it, make sure these actions have consequence, as Mark

said we need to make sure that the magistrates are tough. We need to

send a clear signal this isn't a acceptable form of behaviour. We

need to make sure people know it is a crime and it will have

consequences. The next story is relevant for Amber Rudd as well.

When people talk about poverty they probably don't think it's a big

problem in the south-east. They would be wrong. Some parts of Kent

Sussex and Surrey have a growing number of poor children. According

to the latest figures Hastings has more than twice the national rate

of child poverty and it is not just pockets of deprivation. The vast

majority of wards suffer greater child poverty han the national

average. Nearly half the children in Central St Leonards are

officially poor. In Kent Thanet has the biggest problem. Child poverty

rates are higher than the national average and the worst yair is

Newington. Nearly half the children come from poor families. Will

things improve? Not according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

It says child poverty will get worse not better, especially as the

coalition Government's austerity plans bite. You remember the ward

with the worst child poverty in the whole of the south. What does

poverty look like? It is ward with great potential and huge benefits

and opportunities there as well. What does it look like? It looks

like overcrowded flats, it look like poor quality accommodation, it

looks like children who are on the street because they haven't got

adequate opportunities in their home, it is children who haven't

got access to computers, they are at school with their peer, who have

access to a computer at home, which they can use for educational

purposes and leisure purposes, these youngsters don't have any of

those opportunities. Perhaps they come from a home where over

generations there has been unemployment and a lack of drive

and ambition. We will talk about aspiration in a moment. I want to

talk to Amber Rudd. What is going to improve the lives for these

families and children? It is a combination of education, and work.

On education, I am pleased to say that Hastings is getting 1.5

million pound this year on the pupil premium to help children, 2.5

million next year. We have two new academies being built. Hold on a

second. On education those two new academies were the last of the old

Labour academies. In fact where Michael Gove became Secretary of

State for education he stripped �11 million away from the St Leonards

academy. It nearly didn't get built. That is not true. The �70 million

combined going into the two academy, of which East Sussex County Council

is picking up about a third. They picked up �11 billion because that

was taken away from the Government. The council have footed the bill

because the money wasn't there from your Government. It is taxpayer

money, do you think the children mind where it comes from the

council or the Government. The majority is coming from the

Government 6789 what I am concerned about is these schools get built

and the family, the children have better opportunities than they have

had before. It is education, and it is worklessness, as Jeremy referm -

- referred to. You have families who have been unemployed for

generation, we are targeting through the Government families

like that so we can help them. We can help them get back to work, get

educated so we can end that cycle. The best thing to erads Kate child

poverty is education and work, those are the areas we will focus

on to take them out of poverty. us go back to Mark Reckless on this

one. On the subject of employment, it is a bit of a myth isn't it. It

is not the only problem by any means. Nearly 60% of the children

who live in poverty have at least one parent in work. Well, in the

short-term I think that the poverty we are speaking about, children

living in a household with 60% less of average income. You could

increase benefits. This year people on benefits are getting an

inflation rise. I think in the longer term, if we want to tackle

this problem, you have to make it more attractive for people to work,

compared to being on benefit. We have to ensure that jobs are there

for people trained, who are local, and not just always have more and

more in the way of immigration. are not seriously telling me what

the Government is doing in terms of austerity is improving the lot for

poor families. According to the campaign for poverty, child poverty

action group. The changes your Government has brought in will mean

a baby born to a low income family in April last year will be �1500

worse Ofcom paired to a sibling born in 2010. You are making them

poorer. I have read that report. What they haven't taken into

account for this year people on benefit they are getting inceefs 5%

when people in work are only getting 2%. We have o make sure

that work pays. That is why we are bringing in a universal credit, so

that the taper at which income is withdrawn when people get a job is

less, an we insist people go to work, help them get into that work

and don't allow this option of continuing to be on benefit,

without the pressure and expectation. So speaks a man

without children and doesn't know about the cost of childcare when

you work longer hours. I spoke to a senior teacher at Hastings academy.

She said poverty of aspiration is what we have. These children don't

dream o of doing amazing thing, they see their future the same as

their parents and grandparents. How do you help them? We have to break

the cycle. I want children to dream they can become any occupation they

become doctors, lawyer, MPs, rather than thinking their only aspiration

is to continue in whatever their family has been doing, which may

well be generational unemployment. That is something we have to break.

What worries me, in Hastings in particular, with 43% of people who

are employed in the public sector. I am not sure where the jobs are

going to be. One of the most selfish things is us as individuals.

Isn't it selfish to have children when you can't afford to bring them

up outside of poverty. You. Children are a blessing. The

important thing is to work with your family to make sure you give

your children the best opportunity. Thank you for joining us. Now, a

reminder of the other week's events Kent based Gurkhas may have won

over Joanna Lumley but they are facing their toughest battle after

being singled out for cuts by the MoD. Plans for Boris island airport

were floated again and saw the coalition partners at loggerheads.

The Prime Minister is apparently increasingly interested, but the

Liberal Democrat Transport Minister Norman Baker is emphatic in his

opposition. We do not support the building of a new airport.

Politicians paid tribute to Dave Leigh who died this week. A big man

in every way, he also left a big legacy, raising more than �2

million for charity. And David Cameron caused outraiming by

calling a veteran Labour MP a dinosaur. The honourable lady gets

a bit hysterical, in fact... Still at least he didn't tell her to calm

down dear. Let us pick up on the Gurkhas. Is that the end of the

line now? Will there be further redundancies or can they get on

with their work? I hope not. The Gurkhas have suffered a bigger cut.

Fewer came forward to take the voluntary redundancy, in Medway we

have a lot of Gurkhas and retired Gurkhas and the contribution they

have made is immense, I there won't be any more redundancies. We are

chuckling at the end with the insult. Is politics a world where

you have to get used to insults. What is the worst thing anybody has

said to you Jeremy? That is printable. There was a placard once

saying knock birch off his perch. I know Dennis scirn. He won't mind

being called a dinosaur. Will he take it as a compliment. He will

say if it is believing in socialist values at a time when the banks are

collapsing, when free markets don't work, perhaps dinosaurs get a bad

press. I don't think he will worry about it. What about you Mark? You

haven't been in the world of politics all that long, Shortly

after I was elected I won an award from my party's whips and it was in

the newspaper. There was one letter and fives a the risks of it.

Unbroadcastable. Before we go I probably owe you an apology