10/06/2012 Sunday Politics South East

In the south-east: as 16 more councils apply for funding, we ask

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1707 seconds

if Portas Pilot Scheme could really I am Julia George and this is the

Sunday politick show in the south- east. Coming up: is it an

environment of necessity or a disaster? We examine how so-called

green EU proposals could change farming in the region -- this is

the Sunday Politics Show. Joining me is the Tory MP for Hastings and

Rye Amber Rudd and the Green MP for Brighton Pavilion Caroline Lucas.

Why do some of us die younger than others? Money? A report by Brighton

and Hove top doctor says that poor people in the City are dying up to

10 years earlier than rich people. Caroline Lucas, you have spoken

before about alcohol pricing on the Sunday politick show. Would you put

a figure on it per unit that would save lives. There has been a lot of

research done and most people think a figure of around 50p is probably

what is needed. I think we do need some pretty urgent government

action on this because a lot of the issues people talk about when it

comes to lifestyle or alcohol, a lot of people put all of the

responsibility on the individual. The government also has a

responsibility. We need to think about access to healthy food. Are

people living in poor areas able to get proper access to affordable

healthy food? Amber Rudd, it is not just Brighton and Hove. We know

that in Margate for instance there is a 15 year discrepancy between

life expectancy. I imagine the problems are similar in Hastings?

We have seen that the figures are getting wider. I wholly agree that

we need to do something about alcohol. We need to have minimum

alcohol pricing levels because the price of alcohol bought at off-

licences has fallen by about 30%. The other problem we have in

Hastings is smoking. Smoking has reduced in those parts of the

country but in Hastings it has stayed stubbornly high. I know that

the public health laboratories feel that is the main area to do

something about. I opened a new stop-smoking clinic just a few

weeks ago. How do you save a dying high

street? Margate and Dartford have recently received grants under the

Portas Pilot Scheme. We found out that 16 more towns in our region

are applying in a second round of funding. The maximum grant is just

�100,000 which does not go far. 84% of local councils in the south-

east are currently bidding for money to revitalise their high

streets. It is an extension of a government scene which recently saw

Margate and Dartford among the first towns nationwide to win a

share of the money. The Sunday politick showed -- the Sun the

Politics Show has shown that many towns are hoping to win in the

second round. I am the leader of Dartford council. You have probably

heard... Dartford's approach... different to markets. -- to

Margate's. By winning, they will get advice from retell export Mary

Portas who recently carried out a High Street review for the

government. She visited Margate last year. Margate will get a one-

off payment of �100,000. Dartford will get �79,000. Just how far will

this money go? As this shop manager is well aware of doing up the High

Street does not come cheap. We had the shop front put back to how it

would have been originally in 1890 and that has cost around �150,000.

That is just one shot. �79,000 to spend on the whole town, that is

just throwing a pebble in the lake. I do nothing the money will go

anywhere. Margate will use its money for pop up shops and a job

club. Dartford will open up central spaces to classes and clubs. Will

this money provide a long-term solution? We think that the �79,000

is quite small. Quite frankly, much of what is proposed could easily

have been done anyway. I am a little bit surprised that the

council did not bid for the full amount of �100,000 because that

would have enabled them to do a number of other things. I am sure

there will be some worthwhile projects that can be done in the

short term but a number of the problems are more deep-seated and

they need to be addressed as well. One way of tackling this would be

to give small amounts to a larger number of towns. The successful

towns are geographically spread equally over the country. Barford

and Margate have the highest proportions of a vacant shops. One

other town in Lincolnshire has only one in 10 shops and tea.

decision was probably made on political rather than economic

grounds. The money has been spread evenly around the country. Let us

face it, �1.2 million is in itself an absolutely miniscule sum in

terms of regional development or regeneration. This is not enough to

make a significant difference even if it were all spent in one place.

Sir is this scheme little more than a token gesture? I think this is a

classic example of gesture politics. If the government really thought

that it could turn the tide of high street recession, it would be

spending and a awful lot more. �100,000 is the maximum sum

involved here. But that is only getting 79,000. �100,000 is a way

of seeing -- as saying that we want to be seen doing something but we

do not want to pay serious money because we do not think it will

work. Is it just a government PR exercise to mask a deeper problem?

Joining us now is Gareth Johnson the Conservative MP for Dartford.

The shop owner in that report sets it out rather well. It cost him

�150,000 for a new shop front. What meaningful change can you really

hope to achieve with �79,000? one is claiming it is a magic wand

that will make all of the challenges go away overnight. But

it is a vote of confidence in the potential that but that has as a

High Street. That is something that the Portas Pilot Scheme team

recognised. It is a well run local authority. That is why the bid was

successful. What are you going to do with �79,000? It is a boost to

lots of people coming in with good ideas. People sneer at the money

but it is quite surprising what a boost it can be followed, market

traders who have good ideas but need a lift to get going. You give

them �1,000, that helps to get the ball rolling. I am quite sure we

will see Dartford growing in popularity and in success. A school

for shopkeepers. What is the point of that if there are no shops?

will get the community involved. The money is part of a jigsaw that

needs to be put into place in order to make the town centre successful.

We need to the local authority with a can-do attitude. We need projects

that we have in Dartford like the park looking really good. We need

an extra bit of help in the town centre. That is what we hope to get

from this. Is it the reality that blue water the big shopping centre

killed at Dartford High Street and you should have fought harder and

earlier like Gravesend? Gravesend survive better than Dartford.

Aren't you trying to breathe life into wait corpse? I was brought up

in Dartford. The High Street was going downhill well before the

shopping centre was built. We cannot treat be two entities are

the same. We have to make sure that we do not have an attitude where we

will make the High Street better by holding the shopping centre back.

The shopping centre has been good for Dartford. The high street need

something different to get the community involved to breathe life

into the High Street. That is what the bid will help to ensure happens.

Amber Rudd, the professor said that the government want to be seen to

be doing something but they do not think it will work. I do not agree

at all. I think it is remarkable that 371 pits were put in. It is

not all about the money. It is also invigorating the community to look

seriously at their high street to see what can be done. I hope there

will be a lasting legacy. Will you get face down with Mary Portas?

it is determined... Mary Portas? Yes, Mary Portas is determined that

the 12 pilots will work so I think we will see her in Dartford. We

need a positive approach. The sort of negativity we saw from the

counsellor is exactly why Dartford has problems in the first place.

Brighton and Hove is bidding it next time. What with �100,000

achieved in a city like yours? There is a small amount. There is a

risk that it would be gesture politics. I think bigger changes

could be made by being able to reduce business rates so that you

can get shops being opened in run- down areas and getting the empty

shops back in business, we need to tackle the rise of the massive

supermarkets. We have now got a dozen Tesco's, 10 Sainsbury's in

Brighton. We also thank for a have a thriving independent local

trading sector but it is under threat. The government should bite

the bullet and look at things like monopoly rules to stop these huge

supermarkets sucking the life out of the cities. Doesn't Hastings

needed the money more than Brighton? I want to congratulate

Dodford put through gritted teeth. I think the point of this is

exactly what Caroline Lucas said. It is taking a high street...

we not have more of a joint approach from the government

because under this and the last government we have seen a loss of

around a quarter of our post offices, we do not have the

infrastructure now in our high streets. When do we get that back,

and post office closures should absolutely stop... We are going to

move on to rural areas. Farmers could be hit by European

Commission plans to introduce greener regulations from 2014. All

farmers would have to grow three crops at a time at least and 87% of

their land free from cultivation and retain some permanent grassland.

Critics say the arms could end up harming food production. We have

won in the tent -- one in 10 of the country's farms in this region.

During us now is the European Commission spokesman Roger wait. --

joining us now. Why it risked damaging our farmers further one

they are doing more than farmers in other European countries? The UK is

doing extremely well and farmers in Kent and Sussex in particular but

what we want is to raise the baseline. We want everybody in

Europe, or farmers in Europe, to do such a good job. What we are

planning a is the Common Agricultural Policy for the period

from 2014 and we face two fundamental challenges. We have got

an increase in demand in food and at the same time we have got

problems with our natural resources. There are problems with water, soil

and climate change and biodiversity loss. We have got to make sure we

can somehow combine the two and make sure that any increase in food

production comes in tandem with a green at agricultural policy.

us put up on food production. 7% of land set aside. People will be

thinking that they would like cheaper food. They want to know it

is cheap, readily available. Why make it harder? Why so that you

have to set aside some land? It is not set aside. I can make that

absolutely clear. Every farm has areas which are not in use. For

instance, hedgerows, grass tracks, field margins, a buffer strips

being used more and more in British farmers. It is precisely that which

we want to take. If there is an area of field that is not very

productive, we want to make sure the farmer does not feel that they

have to cultivate it does so to maximise their returns. If there is

a problem there, he should be leaving it as part of what we are

calling for an ecological focus area. The key point is it is not

set aside, it is maintaining those areas that are not very productive.

Let us look at the number of crops. You do not go to other industries

and sate, as well as making cars, you have got to make motorbikes as

well. Why are you increasing the regulatory burden? With the three

crops, we are looking to avoid monoculture. Bearing in mind that

the soil... His is an environment of public good. We are avoiding

farmers year in year out grow the same thing. They are planning

deeper... But we used British crop rotation. That is just as

successful as protecting the soil. If there is a certified crop

rotation scheme, we are willing to look at using that as a

contribution fully or partly to this whole grain requirement. I

underlined again that the whole point is that every farmer in

Europe does this. In the UK, in the south-east in particular, we have

many extremely good environmentally friendly farming practices. The key

point is that we do not just want it in some areas of Kent, we want

it in the whole of England and the whole of Europe. Thank you very

much. Let us bring Amber Rudd and Caroline Lucas back. I would have

thought you would be one of the biggest advocates of making farms

greener but you oppose these plans, why? I certainly support the

overall aim of making farms greener but I have reservations about the

way the commission is proposing to do it with a one-size-fits-all

approach across Europe. They are real concerns that without more

flexibility we will have some very perverse outcomes. For example,

there are risks that pastureland that the commission wants to see

looking after, the way they have announced it, there is a risk

farmers will get rid of that in the shorter term because it makes sense

to get rid of that. We need to say that we have a crisis of

biodiversity, yes, and we do need to make the Common Agricultural

Policy greener. It accounts for 41% of the EU budget. But you would

rather leave it up to farmers to decide how they do it? They need

more flexibility because the way this is being imposed means that we

could have some very perverse outcomes. You were talking about

crop rotation being keep rather than simply crop diversification.

These rules need to be looked at again. Their aim is right, making

the agriculture was system going up, but some of the detail needs to be

looked at again. Why are you so sure this could be damaging? That

is not what this delivers. This insists on a level of making things

greener. Our farmers are the gold standard at the moment for

environmental farming. They want to continue to do that. They do not

need more regulation. The whole idea of having won that type of

farming policy with its green requirements for the whole of

Europe is unrealistic. It is a Common Agricultural Policy.

should all have the same common outcome which is a green a way of

farming always with sustainable food production at the core. We

must have a way of delivering it where each country can deliver it

in its best way. But it seemed like he could see some movement and

concessions. They would take it into account before they consider

taking subsidies away. That is really important and I am hoping

some of the concerns we have will be ironed out because maybe it is

just a problem with the drafting or maybe people are having second

thoughts. We have to learn from the environmental schemes that are

already in place. Let us bring you to a round-up of

the week's other events in the south-east.

The Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg proved he is not afraid to

get his hands dirty as he carried out an oil check. It is not his

sudden Career Change, he was meeting apprenticeships. It comes

two weeks after Iain Duncan-Smith met apprenticeships -- apprentices

in Maidstone. Gordon Henderson welcomed a big

jobs boost at a steel factory. The company has been bought by a Saudi

it Arabian company. Lord Adonis accused the government

over endless dithering. The Institute of Civil Engineers

called for compulsory water metering to tackle the drought. It

seems like it is a case of water, water everywhere but not enough to

drop the hosepipe ban. Briefly picking up on water

metering. There is also a suggestion we should pay according

to what we are using water for. should certainly have more water

metering. They will have it in place by 2015 which is great news.

More expensive if you use it on your garden or your car? There is

no reason to have purified water to clean your car, you should use it