23/09/2012 Sunday Politics South East

Gough and in the southeast corner canoe afford to keep it using the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2010 seconds

Hello. This is the programme for the South East. How much more can

you afford to pay go you drink it? There is another big rise on the

way, but Kent MPs argue that you should be exempt. Joining us is

that Norman Baker and Paul Clark, who was Labour MP for Gillingham

from 1997 until the last election. Welcome to both a view. Let's start

with Nick Clegg. Two years ago, you'd he's our reviewers by

suggesting that you might consider resigning over tuition fees. It --

you teased our viewers. The camera is all yours. Do you want to say

sorry today? This is our biggest mistake. We made a promise with the

best of intentions. We could not deliver and we should not have made

a promise that we could not deliver. The other two parties wanted to

increase the fees and we cannot get a deal on it and it was a deeply

disturbing moment for me. I was not teasing voters. I was very close to

resigning. I think Nick Clegg had been absolutely right to make an

apology. Two and a half years later? People are prepared to

listen to him now and I think he is right to do it and I think people

will respect that he said that when most politicians would and. Let us

not forget that this -- most politicians would not. Let us not

forget that in 2001 the Government promised there would be in no top

up fees. He broke two promises. your broker to promises. Finds the

response that there has been across the internet end terms of a parody

is that have been done on the hollow apology, it is a hollow

apology and that is how it is being seen. This is one U-turn. This was

not after the election. There is documented evidence that Danny

Alexander said that we would not go to the wire on this if we were in a

coalition. The whole point, of course, was to win back support. He

wanted to wipe the slate clean with this apology. How big is the task

and the southeast? In 2000 m, Labour got 30 % of the vote -- go

into 1010, Labour got 30 % of the vote. The Liberal Democrats had to

seats. -- two seat. Recent opinion polls gave the Conservatives 33 %

and the Liberal Democrats 11 %. If people in the South East vote along

those lines, Labour would gain six seats from the Conservatives and

the Green Party and the Liberal Democrats will at least -- lose 1.

This does not take into account local variations. We have been to

Eastbourne this week to find out how serious the situation really is.

This is one of the sunniest places in Britain, and in recent years,

the Sun has been shining on the Liberal Democrats here. This is one

of the most will rubble at Lib Dem seats. The Lib Dems have often been

the party of the protest vote, benefiting from disillusioned Left

wing of and right-wing voters. But now their high profile is losing

them support. This man used to be the mayor of Eastbourne and a Lib

Dem, but he recently joined the Labour Party. I was a liberal back

in the early 60s and then I became a Lib Dem. I switched, first of all,

because I thought it was a wrong of the Lib Dem at leadership to go

into a coalition. Then Ed Miliband was elected and wanted to get back

to socialist principles and that is what I wanted to go to the Labour

Party. I think that people did not vote for a right wing party and

they feel betrayed. He has not the only one to jump ship. Lib Dem

membership in the southeast has increased, but will the voters

trade in their support as well? At this market, we spoke to 20 people

who voted Lib Dem end the last general election and three-quarters

said they would vote for them again and one-quarter said they would not.

The main reason given was because the party joined the coalition. If

this pattern was followed in the whole constituency, the Lib Dems

could lose their seat. I feel disillusioned. I think they make

lots of promises that were very important. I devoted Lib Dem

tactically because I thought they would help Labour but it went the

other way. It has not dampened my support. I would still vote for the

Lib Dems. It is not just the next general election where the Lib Dems

might struggle. They have always relied on its local support, but at

last year's council elections, they lost half of their seats in the

southeast. When it led them to lose her seat was Alex Hull. I have been

disillusioned with the mistakes that we have made. I think the Lib

Dems have done more than they had been able to get across. Nick Clegg

is not a dramatic leader but he does a lot behind the scenes. I

will stay for now but I can hop off at any minute. Some commentators

say that both Lib Dem seats could be in danger. The Liberal Democrats

look extremely likely to lose their seats in Eastbourne and they could

also be used in Lewis. The question is, are they cite the less

unpopular than their Conservative opponents? The evidence seems to be,

amongst the people that matter most, the Liberal Democrats are less

popular than the Conservatives are. That is the truth about it,

political parties die off. They can cease to have a role in national

politics. I think the Liberal Democrats are facing this sort of

crisis. Eastbourne is the only town and the southeast where... There

could be serious consequences when the next election rolls around.

Norman Baker, what have you done as a constituency MP to make people

vote for you? I have done what I have always do, which is to put my

constituents first. I think we need to protect the health service from

the organisational changes that can impact badly upon them locally and

the various campaigns that any MP it would run if they are worth

their salt. Every year, going back to when we were in opposition, the

story is the same, the Lib Dems are on their way out. I have been

dealing with that for 25 years on this programme and every time it

has been strong. If you take Eastbourne, there is a man down

there who as an MP and he is doing really well done a. -- is an MP and

he is doing really well down there. If you go back in time, this is how

it has always been. We have to factor in that we have local

support, and that means that we have a stronger seats. I am not

pessimistic. I think we are doing better than the Conservatives did

in the last election. This kind of the media frenzy is overstated.

am not sure it is a media frenzy, it is just a question. You are

going to seek re-election? I think that will be a matter for the local

party. I am always interested to serve my party. When the big issues

-- what are the big issues for the people a Gillingham going to be?

Jobs, skills, these are critical issues. Transport, of course, and

defending the marshes from an airport. Why do so few people want

to be members of any of the parties? Pemba cent of people do

not want to be part of a party. -- 10 %. For I think this is incumbent

on all of us as politicians. have not really got this across.

You only need to look at an opinion poll that has been done in terms of

Liberal Democrats. Half of people feel that they have been

ineffectual in terms of the coalition. Things like the people

premium, that was slated yesterday by the inspector, and civil

liberties, areas where the Liberal Democrats used to excel. Let's come

back to the issue of re-election. It could be 2015 or sooner, but of

course, one of the issues that will be significant for you is, who is

leading a party? Will it still be Nick Clegg? Is he a leader or a

liability? The Deputy Prime Minister has been talking to our

political Editor about one of the hottest topics here in the

southeast, what he thinks the Government should do about airport

expansion. Everybody agrees we need this hub capacity to give us

connections to Asia and other places. That is good for the

economy but there are a lot of ideas about how you do it. Some

people think you can build a real link between Heathrow and other

places, and then maybe an amalgamated airport. I do not know

if that stands up to scrutiny. I do not know if the idea of using

Birmingham airports at increased capacity is a good idea. You were

against any increase capacity in airports. We are not against the

idea. There should be increased capacity and the meddlers so where.

We are anxious about what it means for -- in the Midlands somewhere.

We are anxious about what it means for the country. We are very clear

that we do not think that a third Heathrow runway works. It would

probably fill up with them a matter of years and you would have to keep

building on. Crucially, let's remember, 60 % of a noise pollution

in Europe is related to West Lodnon and Heathrow we do not agree with

that -- and Heathrow. We do not agree with that. We are not

convinced about the third runway at Heathrow but we will look at it

with an open mind. We are you rule out Thames Estuary? I am not

persuaded by that airport. I am not an aviation expert. My party is not

persuaded by it but we are a party that is reasonable and will listen

to evidence and we do not have that yet. We will not have it in full

until after the general election. You have apologised for breaking up

your pledge on tuition fees. Thousands of students are going to

protest against this policy. Now that you have apologised, how can

you ask them to vote for you? It was an undeliverable pledge. I am

being very open about it. We made a pledge that we could not stick to

and it was a mistake and I have said that I am sorry. I clearly

will learn from that, we will learn from that. You must learn from your

mistakes and I made it very clear that we will make sure that we will

make a pledge that we are sure we can deliver as a party. I am very

proud of the fact that we had four commitments on the front page of

our manifesto, pupil premium on money for schools, no income tax on

the first �10,000 you earn, sorting out the economic mess left behind

by Labour and pushing for political reform. There's for commitment that

we had our ones that we have started. -- those four commitments.

You are in danger of losing Eastbourne and the next election.

You are paying a price for this coalition cannot argue?

coalition, are you? You were wiped off at Hastings. We are active on

the ground and we are explaining our side of the story. It is a

story that is difficult and controversial and we made mistakes,

but where we have delivered more apprenticeships, we have delivered

more work than this country has seen in 20 years. We have had a

large cash increase. These er things where we expect them on the

doorstep. We not -- these are things. I hope that, as we continue

to explain our story, our fortunes will increase as well. Thank you

very much. Norman Baker, you are clear that Heathrow should not have

a third runway, but your leader is clearly leaving the door open on an

estuary airport. He said he has not persuaded but the evidence could

persuade him. I did not quite hear him say that. We have got a

commission and we need to not judge the outcome cancer we see the

evidence. He said himself he was a persuader. I am not persuaded. I

think it is a bit of a mad scheme and it will be hugely expensive to

get infrastructure out there. There is Montgomery, and there is lots of

ammunition underneath there. We do not want clarity from Nick Clegg?

We do not want him to rule it out here and now? The fact of the

matter is that at the last general election, we went into it with a

commitment of no expansion of airports and the southeast. We

stopped the third home -- runway at Heathrow. You have described the

idea of having a airport hub in this area absolute madness. But a

massive infrastructure project would bring in growth in jobs.

had a project at the Thames Gateway and that was about giving people

skills for the jobs and giving them their jobs and that is how you

deliver, through other regeneration programmes. The reason why I

personally believe an estuary airport would not work, it would

not stack up financially, but also, whispered something like six years

in government actually looking at all of the -- we spent something

like six years in government actually looking at all of this.

The Independent Commission, all that is about his kicking this into

long grass and taking the decision after the general election. I think

it is about tying up policy with high-speed rail. We need to look

elsewhere in the country. What did you make of Nick Clegg in the

interview? Did he come across as a leader? It now, I do not think he

comes across as a leader to the vast majority of people. He seems

indecisive. I think he did come across as a leader. As it happens,

my experience of Lib Dem leaders, Nick Clegg is the best we have had.

The we will stay with transport. Can you afford to keep commuting?

The Government says that season tickets can increase by an average

of 6%. Anybody travelling from Canterbury to London are already

pays �4,500 a year. Passengers have been stung by its massive rises and

rail fares defined high-speed services that many of them do not

even use. - occur to find rail services. -- to find high-speed

rail services. Let's talk about this number, 6%. Despite what has

been in the papers, it is important to put this on the record. There

has been a policy that was introduced in 2004 of increasing

rail fares above inflation every year, and in the southeast, his

party did increase them. It is not a question of negating that. That

has already happened. Isn't it time now to cut a bit of slack? They

have had such a steep rises to fund high-speed rail, isn't it time to

cut them a bit of slack than everybody else that these things

have been paid for? That decision was taken by the last government. I

understand the reasons even though I do not agree with it. The issue

is this, we have the biggest rail programme going on since Victorian

times and the Lib Dems will want to take some credit for that. This has

to be paid for somehow. The rail is not as efficient as it should be.

As soon as we can he do that, we will start lowering the affairs.

is Liberal Democrat policy to seek a real-terms cut in rail fares.

This is another election commitment to make things cheaper and easier

for people that you cannot keep. have been driving down the cost of

rail fares. They have been driven down from where they could have

been. We are also seen the biggest rail expansion since the Victorian

times. They put up a rail fares every ear. He is right, you did

that. -- he put up rail fares every year. He is right, you did that.

Your government is suggesting, very clearly, that there will be RPI

plus three in 2012 and 2013. Across the country, there is no return.

What the investment was in the southeast, if you remember in 1997,

we had a policy that dated back to the 30s and 40s. Now it is up to

date. Ask any transport officials what the money was a four. What we

are saying is that we should keep the RPI plus 1% above inflation.

Let me ask, do you still believe that increasing rail fares is

neither sensible or defensible, as you said to me across the despatch

box on 20th January 2009? He I want to end the Era of above inflation

rail fares. We are electrifying hundreds of miles of track. They

have all me a lecture fide nine. would love to see you end a

coalition together! Time now for a regular round-up for the political

week. Here is our political UKIP leader Nigel Farage's

relations with the European Union have got an frostier. A fine has

been imposed after this rant against the EU President. You have

the charisma of a damp rag and the appearance of a low-grade bank

clerk. For Martin Bell was supporting and Barnes in her bid to

become police commissioner. The government has finally given the go

ahead to the �650 million redevelopment of these dockyards.

No such decision on a Airport and the Thames estuary, but Crispin

Blunt said: It is blindingly obvious. That will teach David

Cameron in the reshuffle! Is Jarmila too young to stand for

election as a councillor? There have been allegations of ageism. A

18 are too young? No, we should get more young people involved in

politics also go luck to him. have a great way to end the show. -