14/10/2012 Sunday Politics South East

And in the South East, fighting the freeze, while Brighton's Green

Party is considering defying the Government by putting council tax

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2172 seconds

Hello and misses the Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming

up later - a one-man-band all the biggest threat to the Tories in the

South East? How serious is the challenge posed by UKIP? Our guests

at Damian Collins the Conservative MP for Folkestone and Hythe and the

leader of UKIP, Nigel Farage who is also the MEP. This England.

Unfortunately was unable to make it to the studio to Mesa joins us from

London. Malcolm to. Scallop wars have broken and the Channel. Sussex

fishermen have been returning with tales of tangling with French

counterpart over lucrative Scot ground. About 40 French ships

surrounded a British vote on Monday. About 15 miles off the French coast

and threw stones and shouted abuse. -- British vote. The French are

angry that the British are exempt from rules designed to replenish

stocks. It seems unfair that the French went to fish stocks finding

out the British got there first. pick a lot of my constituencies in

Kent will not have many sympathies with the French fishermen who have

caused as many dismays but this should not be a stand off in the

high seas. What the British are doing our legal, but it does not

seem very fair on people nurturing stocks. The French fishermen are

very good at interpreting laws in their own way without caring if it

is fair to us. Not much diplomacy here from Damian. Nigel will you be

more diplomatic? No! I am a great sympathise with the British fishing

fleet. The Conservative Party have almost destroyed it up by signing

as a to a common policy. This dispute about scallops, our

fishermen are angry because our percentage of the cod quota is 7%.

Getting back to this particular issue, the French have been

refraining from fishing them all summer and by the time they come

back, the British have got there first. If you're a fisherman, you

have to have quota or you go for things off quota. Given that our

fleet only have 7% of the Channel cod quota and the French have 77,

we have to fish for other things and brightly the whole thing is

ludicrous to what we ought to do is draw a line in the Channel and

declare each half national waters, that would work and would be

perfectly fair. OK, we will leave it there for now. The grey is on

Brighton and Hove City Council are considering raising council tax

bills -- the Greens on Brighton and Hove City Council, in defiance of

the Government. At the Tory party conference,

ministers made it clear that they wanted local authorities to free

his bills and by using a stick and carrot tactics often cash

incentives for those two comply -- Brighton and Hove is the only place

in the country where the Greens are the largest party. Have a different

agenda politically and a different view of local politics from the

Government. This week, the local government minister Eric Pickles

made it clear what he thinks about council tax. Conference, I believe

in lower taxes. Whereas labelled doubled the council tax, we have

worked with councils for the last two years to freeze it. This year,

we are offering an additional fund to help councils freeze their bills

again. But here in Brighton and Hove, the message was not well

received. Rather than freeze council tax, the council has been

planning to put it up. They are talking about a 3.5% increase. To

ease pressure on council services. Brighton and Hove City Council is

responsible for managing things like emptying bins, sweeping

streets and running libraries. In all, it provides over 800 services

and employs around 6,000 staff. The Green Party wanted to put council

tax up last year but was defeated and says it may try to do the same

thing again. Council tax bills in Brighton and Hove are currently

�1,482 a year for an average house in band D. 85% of this bill is set

by the council. The rest by a fire and police authorities. If the

council's charges rose by 3.5%, bills would go up by �44. A

suggestion that is met with scorn by the Green Party's opponents.

They are crazy. We are said that the council tax should be frozen

from day one. We said this last year and we succeeded last year but

they did not want to do and right up until the end, they tried to

increase the council tax by 3.5% but fortunately, Labour joined us

to defeat that. I have said from day one, the cut tax should be

frozen. This is what people want. And now we have an offer from the

Government to freeze council tax. How can it make any sense to

increase it? Does anyone want to pay more council tax? I think it is

high enough already. I live in the city centre so it is already quite

steep. I would be against it because I fear we pay enough

already. I do not know how I would be able to pay it, really. What of

the question is slightly different? Would people be prepared to play

less than �1 per week to keep libraries and other services

running as they are now? Yes, but that changes it probably, that

sounds more achievable.? If that was signed and sealed, then of

course but they can say these things and it is interesting that

it does not happen. I do not want any more council tax. The Greens

have minority control of the council and given the Tory

opposition, they would need Labour support. And then they would have

to hold a referendum. Imposed by the Government which would cost

around �300,000. Earlier this year, the Government said councils had to

hold a ballot if they wanted to raise council tax by over 3.5%. But

it has just lowered that two 2%. The point about referenda is that

they are yes or no questions. Politics are not usually about that,

it is about how much so this is a misfit between the sort of issues

it is dealing with and the way the Government is doing this. The

Government is doing this to make sure that it can put a limit on

what local councils do. Technically they are saying it you can do it

with a majority support but we know it is difficult to vote for tax

rises. That is like turkeys voting for Christmas so unless you are

voting for tax rises on billionaires, you will not get it.

If they do manage to find allies to pursue the rise, they will be

taking a stand because the Government and will be out of lamb

with virtually every other council in the country.

I am joined by the leader of Brighton and Hove City Council,

Jason Kitcat. What do you need the money for? We are facing the

highest per-capita cuts by any council in the region. We need to

make up from the huge pressure that all of our services are having to

deliver for our citizens, but it -- whether that is libraries, keeping

the seafront in order, keeping the streets clean. These services

depend on us as a council to provide funding. But also as the

report pointed out, he face an uphill struggle to face residents

that they might feel differently if they knew what this money was going

to go towards. I know this is hypothetical, because you have not

have the final budget through from government but what specifically

with this extra money go towards? number of areas we will look at to

use this money for. The Government has cut council tax benefit by

about 80% fall last and so there are the very poor and working

people who will be hit by these changes so that money will reduce

the impact of benefit cuts. We are talking about �3 million. If you

went for that 3.5%, that is not a lot in the context of a budget of a

city council like yours, that will not cover that much. The benefit

reduction in the year ahead will be worth about �2.5 million so that

increase would close the whole. The book libraries we operate cost tens

of thousands of pounds per year so �1 million could save many branch

libraries. The Government is offering new �2 million if you

don't go through this. Why do not go for that? That is one off money.

This is a one off grant and what it effectively masks is the cost of

these phrases. We also have to note that this is a government to

proclaim they are local list and that they are restricting what

councils can and cannot do -- they are in to localism. One of the few

things we are left to decide on his varying council tax. Will to people

in the City are already concerned about we were spending their money.

The cemetery is installed on the seafront. And we have not installed

any so the trees. You are planning to spend thousands of pounds.

are seeking a grant to renew a shed for the solar panels on the railway

which needed to be replaced 10 years ago. If we are successful

with the ground, that will go ahead. The shed will be closed by the

railway board if we do not act on it so the oldest electric railway

in the country is depending on us to take action. 45,000 is the

amount you said you would put into that. Other examples, the revenue

increase from raising parking charges. Lots of people you are

already getting quite a lot of extra money from them since you

have been in power. They may feel that but it is an inevitable

consequence because of the cuts imposed on this council by the

Government. Let's just remember the fact that the freeze last year

added an additional 3.6 million black hole to our budget thanks to

the work of the Tory and Labour parties locally. The chances of

this going ahead of very slim, aren't they? Us to you can persuade

your colleagues on other parties to back you? I need to talk to the

other group leaders and itself of the Conservatives have made their

minds up there we are in conversation with all of them. We

are trying to seek consensus, and we owe it to the citizens of the

City to protect services and come to a clear budget which protects

budgets and services and delivers value for money. We are doing that.

On we have done very well year on year and we are getting good

ratings from the external audits we are getting. Been two, it good luck

with persuading your colleagues on the council. Damian Collins, we

heard from Jason Kitcat that he is blaming the Government for this,

lowering the threshold for the referendum. He is now trying to do

things but he says that goes against localism. We want local

people to have a say and if authorities want to increase

council tax, they can ask people for their consent. There does not

sound like the people of Brighton will go for that. It comes on

following increases in parking charges. The reason the Government

has wanted to help councils freeze council tax, our local authority

has managed that for two years, we know that when people have less

money to spend it is a fixed cost and it makes a real difference so

all councils should really be looking at spending and sake, what

can we save and what can we do to freeze the council tax? Giving

local authorities more control over their budget, it is a good thing

that in this case they want to go to the people and ask the people

through a referendum whether they would be prepared to put up more

money. Back is a matter for them and it is that they should go to

the people and ask them. I think there was a no. Nigel Farage joins

us now from Westminster. You want to keep government control of local

government so you would applaud what the Greens are doing. I think

it is up to elected councils to live in that their taxes and be

judged at elections but on top of that I think if local residents

want to hold a referendum, whether it is on the scale of the Budget,

green belt development, ugly wind farms, then I think local residents

should have a right. As a general principle, central government has

far too much say over local government in this country and as

far as the Greens are concerned, I help always called Dan the

watermelons. Great on the outside but they are very road on the

inside. -- very red. So there should be up to spend council tax

as they wish? If I was on the council in Brighton, I would be

opposed to these increases and certainly opposed to the parking

charges brought in but this is our local democracy and how it works

and given there are checks, that is how it should be. Damian Collins,

do you agree? People in Brighton will have their say and I think

they will probably say no. It is always easy for any public bodies

to say, we cannot find savings. On the whole, savings can be made and

I think the public have a right to demand that any spending which his

discretion, any place where we have a bit more control over the pennies

being spent is a good thing. A long live on now and talk about the UK

Independence Party. On the effect that is having on politics and the

South East. It was once mocked as the provisional wing of the Rotary

Club and over the past seven years, UKIP has doubled its share of the

vote in the region. In Damian's constituency, it has almost

quadrupled the vote. How worried are you by this threat, Damian?

should never underestimate any voice in politics and a welcome

UKIP's contribution to the debate. I look forward to having a general

election campaign against a UKIP candidate like added in the last

election. The issue of European membership prosaic matter which is

important, tremendous Fox and change in Europe and the people

want to know what their deal with Europe will be. It is not the top

issue at my surgeries, it is not the issue that people of raised

with me, they are worried about their own living situation. It is a

big issue at Westminster, lot of your colleagues feel strongly that

if David Cameron had been more Euro-sceptic he would have won the

election out right. Maybe that he should do a deal with Nigel to get

ahead in the next election? I am not a great believer in a packed

and alliances to win elections. We should have the election campaign

and UKIP do well in European elections and that support has not

translate through to a general election. The general election will

be won by the party that has the best policies to maintain the

living standards and job creation the country needs. That is the

issue that is central to people's lives. That will determine how they

vote. Nigel Farage, you fought the last general election yourself and

the danger that you always face is that you do not win anything

yourself, you split the right-wing vote and letting the Lib Dems or

Labour win. His store at the UKIP did well in European elections and

its existence was seen as a protest vote against our membership of the

European Union. While it is fully justified, the party today has

evolved and changed. We are not talking about who governs Britain,

we are talking about how that Britain should be governed and that

is what we have got - a broad manifesto talking about education,

green taxes, open-door immigration, talking about the thing that we

think need to happen. But these are the issues at Damian's constituency.

One gets raised in everybody's post back and surgery, our policies like

open-door immigration at a time of rising unemployment. -- those are

Policies. The things that get talked about and certainly I could

talk to about are why are we giving �50 million a day to a European

Union whose accounts have not been signed off for the past 17 years

when the money is needed at home? Surrey, Nigel, we will come back to

you in a minute. Your party leader started talking about a new

settlement for the European Union. He stopped short of a referendum

which is what Nigel would like him to commit to. What would you like

him to do, or would you like a referendum? The important thing is

concerned about what Britain's relationship with Europe will be.

It is quite clear that Europe is changing. Europe may need new

powers to solve the crisis. Britain will not be part of that and the

Conservative Party campaign is for us to stay out of the eurozone. But

if Europe changes, our relationship will change as well. Most people

will want the kind of free trade arrangement that we had when we

joined the Common Market in the 1970s. If we can get that New Deal

and get powers back that we want, it is right that we get some

consent for that new deal. David Cameron has been talking about but

a lot of that is the correct approach. At the moment, if he said

if we had a referendum, people would say what that means for them.

Now a be in the next Parliament? my constituency, one person makes

toys and distributes them to 16 retail outlets across the European

Union, and I am sure that if they have a referendum, they would ask

what it would mean for the business. These are the questions that people

need to get an answer for. Nigel, you have been dismissed as a

provisional wing of the Rotary Club and you have been dismissed as

David Cameron call to fruitcakes and closet racists. I know you were

fined recently for your outburst in the Europe. Against Herman van

Rompuy way. I am not. I am not having this, I called Herman van

Rompuy a damp rag, Boris Johnson was talking about dishcloths are.

This is ludicrous. You do not think you're helping yourself with us,

and? You said yourself that David Cameron has accused us of being

closet racists, eccentrics and lunatics and I put a bit of fun by

saying someone has got the charisma of a damp rag and suddenly I am the

biggest bully in Europe. No apology from me. Now it is time for the

regular round up all the politics Did David Cameron no more than he

was letting on when he spoke to us about the cost of commuting in the

South East last week? I am not satisfied by what is happening on

the railways. Annual increases would be 1% above inflation just

under 3%. Thanet District Council is facing a judicial review over

his decision to suspend live animal exports through Ramsgate. The

authority which owns the port took the decision after 40 sheep have to

be put down. A plans by Paramount for a �2

billion theme park could impose the sight of a new Thames crossing. A

council leader says the application for the park is the most favourable

of three possible routes for a third crossing.

And Boris has been banging the drum for industry airport again. After

calling for a review into aviation capacity to be speeded up, he took

his message to the Conservative Party conference. We are going to

sort out our Aviation capacity problem, aren't we? Yes. But we

will not bowler third runway. -- build a third runway. I know you

did not go to hear his speech in Birmingham, but what about Boris as

a future leader of the Conservative Party? He is a great popular figure

and we need characters and personalities in politics. We have

got a good leader but I think Boris, like every other member of the

party, is behind David Cameron. is not ruling it out. Not, long

term. We will have a look at that when the time comes but he is a

great figure and we will continue to enjoy him. Nigel Farage, he

would give you a run for your money. I like Boris, he's great and he

believes we should have a referendum on Europe and believes

that British business needs a break and he is the only Tory politician

who you could talk to as a UKIP member. Maybe you could do a deal.

What I will push for is an in Out referendum and if David Cameron

does not wake up to the fact that is what nearly 80% of its own

voters want, he is doomed to lose the next general election by a big

margin. Iron-clad Nigel managed to get that in about a question about

Boris. By due to be aimed efficient one-club golfer than to be a Tory

Prime Minister who has let down millions of Conservative voters.

Nigel Farage, it is a shame we couldn't have you in the studio.