25/11/2012 Sunday Politics South East


25/11/2012

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And in the South East: Are MPs putting political popularity over

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2253 seconds

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proper patient care when it comes Hello, and Natalie Graham and this

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is the Sunday Politics in the south-east. Coming up, our new

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squatting laws which led to a Sussex MP being pelted by

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protesters a distraction by the real problem of housing shortages

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in the region? Joining me in the studio is the Labour leader of

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Hastings Borough Council Jeremy Birch, and Professor of journalism

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at Kent University, Tim Luckhurst. Jeremy and the rest of Hastings had

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been celebrating news that the town's pier is going to get �11.4

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million of Heritage Lottery funding so it can be restored. The 140

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year-old pier has hosted Jimi Hendrix and Rolling Stones gigs in

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the past. Then it burned down, the plan is it for its to return to the

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glories of its past. A lot of economic hopes in breast --

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Hastings rest of the plan, is it dangerous to rest so much on one

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structure? This is a conservation and heritage project, but it is

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also a regeneration project. You can revive that part of the

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seafront with a new pier, then businesses will look at the other

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sections of the area. We want to draw visitors from our old town

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which is great further along into further part of Hastings. It is not

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the only show in town, there are any -- there are plenty of other

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things going on in Hastings. The pier, and iconic structure, it

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would make a big difference to the town. Piers art... It is iconic me

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because Pink Floyd played there in 1968, it was the last time that Syd

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Barrett played with them. It is not just iconic, a real part of rock

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legend. The services at two Sussex

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hospitals are going to be streamlined. The changes at the

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Conquest in hating and the DGH in Eastbourne were overlay --

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overwhelmingly voted through on Friday, despite strong protests led

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by local MPs. Similar plant in Kent have also led the vocal opposition.

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Have these protests flown in the face with evidence suggesting week

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bickering surges -- services is good for patients?

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It is an issue that brings people in the south-east out to march

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through the streets. They want major health services like accident

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and emergency consultant led maternity, orthopaedics and surgery

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available in their town. Their MPs have been marching with them,

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saying local services can mean saving local votes. Not everyone

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thinks these politicians are fighting for the best interests of

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their constituents. If you campaign for having all your services and

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not consolidating special services, the evidence shows that patients

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are not going to get the best- quality care. We simply cannot

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replicate high quality care in every hospital. There is a long

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history of politicians campaigning for the local health services, but

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we need to get Blom that. We need amateur response from politics -- a

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we need to get beyond that. We need a mature response from politicians,

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to say what are safe and sustainable services, not to be

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sentimental about Lord Coe -- local services. Think strategically, what

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is the best possible set of services for my constituents?

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number of local district hospitals in England has decreased by 85% in

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the last 50 years. That is because medical advances have meant a clear

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trend towards fewer, larger hospitals with special care units

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particularly in emergency care. Experts argue that centralising

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services saves money and lives. Evidence on the NHS in London

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suggests that out-of-hours emergency surgery can be unsafe if

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hospitals struggle to get adequate senior staff. It said centralising

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services would mean at least 500 fewer deaths per year. Stroke care

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in the capital has been centralised into eight highly specialised units.

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It is estimated that will mean an extra 400 lives are saved each year.

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That is where plans were put forward in East Sussex to

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concentrate emergency and high risk orthopaedic and General surgery at

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the Conquest and strokes services at the District Cama Hospital. The

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medical director in charge of these plans says just 15 people each day

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would have to travel further for their car -- care. Less than 1% of

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patients. Fundamentally it is about insuring that the depth of

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experience in vibrant specialist units are able to provide that high

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quality service. In order to provide those services seven-days-

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a-week, we need staff to provide that. Providing that staff, so

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duplicating that staff, on two sites, is not clinically

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sustainable and is also not find it is sustainable. I think very simply,

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-- financially sustainable. I think very simply, we are securing the

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future of both our acute hospitals for the patients. Four years ago,

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plans to centralise consultant led births in Hastings, leaving an only

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need her -- only a midwifery unit in he Eastbourne, were defeated by

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campaigners. But in Kent, similar calls did not succeed. There were

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concerns about mothers in Labour travelling further to the new unit

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in Pembrey, but one year on, the hospital says outcome and patient

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satisfaction have improved. Now maternity services in East Kent

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have been centralised as well. Over in Brighton, the Royal says its --

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the Royal Sussex County Hospital is specialised trauma centres serving

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the whole of the south-east. If you are in the back of an ambulance,

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you go past on the most hospital but what you get at the end of it

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is a much better all-round quality of care. So what you get is a much

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greater chance of you recovering fully from it. There has been a lot

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of Alliance from the hospital as a building, as a place where a lot of

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services is deliverance. A model is changing and needs to change,

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because there are a lot of people sitting in a hospital bed to could

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be treated elsewhere. Concentrating services is helping the NHS make

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budget cuts of �20 million by 2014. But drawn up campaigns to save

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local hospitals can be an expensive process. Petitions are launched,

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judicial reviews, appeals are made. Ultimately that is taxpayers' money

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being spent by the local NHS trust that does not want to lose

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particular services, and it can go on for years. A huge amount of

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money is spent on these appeals. Ultimately the same decision is

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made. Campaign marches make a great photo opportunity but are our MPs

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but of political popularity eggheads -- putting political

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popularity ahead of communicating the constituents the case became

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she -- the case for change? Joining us from Eastbourne is the town's

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Liberal Democrat MP Stephen Lloyd, who has been a vociferous campaign

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in favour of maintaining existing services at his local hospital. It

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sounds as though these changes are in the best interests of your

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constituents say you would be serving the better if you are

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supporting the hospitals. There are so many things I disagree with that

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report that they do not know where to start. Let me keep -- keep it

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straight forward, that is the road between DGH and Conquest. That is

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one of the worst roads in the south coast. In the last six years, we

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have had 70 fatalities, 4000 accidents, 700 desperately...

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You there, we have rehearsed these arguments very many times. There is

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a new road being built. In that report, 1% of patients are affected.

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The overwhelming support is for the changes because the inconvenience

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is outweighed for the better care they will receive in Hastings.

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is 15 patients per day which is 5000 per year. That is 5000 people

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travelling from Eastbourne and the surrounding area to the Conquest of

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a rotten wrote in serious emergency cases. We are talking about

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clinicians, I have got over 95% of consultants at DGH saying it would

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be the wrong move to move orthopaedics to the Conquest, and

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Rousham or surgery. Why do they think that, when the Royal College

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of Physicians, the NHS Federation, the King's Fund, the national

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clinical advisory team, all feel this is the right thing to do for

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patients? Even on the report to talk about, the consultant they set

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down here was not a role consultant, he was from London. -- a rural

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consultant. When you have got that percentage of DGH senior clinicians

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saying a strongly as they do that they disagree, I have got a list.

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Why do they disagree? Could it be they just do not like change?

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when you have got that sort of percentage, it was 99%. I think for

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was only -- I think there was only one DGH consultant who agreed. At

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the board meeting a couple of days ago, it is -- it was news, our

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local GP commissioning body did not agree with sending orthopaedics and

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general surgery to be Conquest. I have to tell you clearly, part of

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the four tests that the government says Amy reconfiguration plans have

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to agree with says that GP commissioning body has to support

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it. You have not explained to me why... Mr Lloyd, you have not

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explained to me why... I am not a commission. If I had spent lord

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knows how many years as an NHS consultant, I would be able to give

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you clinical advice. When you have got that many clinical conditions...

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There are fewer deaths in high- volume hospitals, patients spent

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less time in hospital, they will get better care, senior doctors

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seven days a week. At the moment stroke services in your local

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hospital are not making local standards. This is good for your

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constituents. On the stroke, that is a fair point. Our campaign has

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never been against any specialised groupings per say. It is on

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specifics. Gemmell surgery. The chief executive, I saw in the paper

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last week, was talking about 15 people per day, but his 5000 people

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in the year. The roads in Eastbourne are falling and that

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road is not going to be done a miraculously in the next year, it

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is going to be done in the next few years. At the minute it is a

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desperately unsafe road. I have too many senior police she --

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commissions across the Place St this will be unsafe and this will

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downgrade the hospital. And when I hear that from serious people, I

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fight the corner and that is it what we are doing in Eastbourne and

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the surrounding area. Thank you for joining us.

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Jeremy Birch, this affects people you represent in Hastings. What is

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your view on the changes? The plan is that strokes centres would be

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centred in Eastbourne, orthopaedics and general surgery in Hastings. I

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think a hospital trust has to reassure people. It has got to say,

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it strikes services are in Eastbourne and people believe that

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strikes services time is of the effort -- essence, in the time it

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will take, patience to go from Hastings or other pasts of East

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Sussex into Easebourne, that safety will not be compromised, they will

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be treated in good time. There is overwhelming medical evidence that

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people who travel to East poor will get much better care. He was not

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reassured? I understand the position in London where people

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have been revived better because of having a centre of excellence. East

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Sussex is not London. You do not have another hospital just down the

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road, you have 70 miles in between these two hospitals. The trust has

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to reassure us in Hastings were stripped and the diseases are a

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bigger issue because of diet and deprivation, you have got to

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reassure us that time will not affect us. This is an interesting

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one for politicians. They will lose votes if they do not oppose the

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changes. I think that is probably right. Let's face it, local

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politicians have been fighting ever since the Second World War II

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maintain the 195 -- 9225 model health service for the General

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Hospital in every community. It is a lovely idea of people like it but

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people are better treated by centralist services. When the you

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think we will hear MPs, only one in the Commons has come out in favour

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of centralisation. Do you think we will see a change in MPs' views on

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a hospitalisation? I think they will go on speaking on behalf of

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their constitution -- constituents but they should not because it is

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in the interests of their constituents for centralised

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services. There have MP Mike Weatherley was

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pelted with missiles buyer group of protesters when he arrived to us

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make a speech about changes to the law about squatting. Is this focus

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on squatters distracting attention from the real problem of

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homelessness and housing shortages in the south-east? Mike Weatherley,

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the Member for Hove, joins us from Westminster. Have you recovered?

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Yes. I think the protest was much more violent battle introduction

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suggested. I was not injured but to a 5 ft of staff were, one still has

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printed -- two of my female staff were, one still has the bruises.

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You want to go further with this legislation so you are prepared for

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more pelted with missiles? I hope not. This is an attack on democracy.

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I was invited by the university to have a forthright debate, but what

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I did not want to was to be hijacked by a bunch of thugs or

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anarchists, some of which work into extremely violent, and all their

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intentions were work to make sure the arguments were not heard. We

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had very good arguments as to why a homelessness and empty properties

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need to be highlighted by its otters need to be criminalised.

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have taken on an organised group of squatters, we have a tradition of

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squatters in this area, is that not distracting from the issue of

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homelessness? We need to separate homelessness and squatters.

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Homeless people are vulnerable people that need to be looked after.

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Any compassionate society or need to look after their horrible people,

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these often people with mental health problems. Squatters tend to

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be wet sadly, they have I phones and mummy and daddy in detached

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houses in Berkshire. They are not homeless people. You are getting --

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you are saying there is a distinction, but the charity crisis

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says 40% of people who are rough sleepers rely on squatting. The

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empty properties are available. That is entirely wrong. I had a

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meeting with the CEO of Crisis, and that 40% includes homeless people

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who call into a doorway and leave the next day. We are talking about

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people who go into a property, then print out a notice from a website

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saying they cannot be moved. So why was the Law Society, the Criminal

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Bar and the Metropolitan Police all against this new law because they

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said the existing dress passing laws were adequate? The existing

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laws were inadequate. A lady died in my constituency and her daughter

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and son were going through the probate process. What they were

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doing that, trying to sell the property, squatters moved in. It

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took them 13 years -- 13 weeks and �10,000 to kick out squatters. They

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were not highlighting homeless issues or empty property issues,

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they just wanted somewhere to live for free as long as they could.

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That is what we had to stop. Luckhurst, is this a sledgehammer

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to crack and not? Mike's case there, you would have sympathy with that,

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but a lot of other people can get caught up in this. Festival, I

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would like to say it is astonishing -- a first of all, I think it is

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astonishing that someone could be literally stoned at university and

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that his terrible. Abolishing the rights for squatting is a criminal

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no-brainer, it is not a policy from one side or another one side or

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another. It is about saying if you own a house, people cannot steal it

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from you simply buy it occupied it. All of us would support that.

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Homelessness is an entirely separate issue. We have to look

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after the homeless and be a compassionate society. We have laws

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in place to do that. We have laws in place which place obligations

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upon local authorities to house people who are homeless and we

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should encourage people to seek their help and not squat. Isn't the

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problem of squatters quite small compared to the people that need a

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home and empty properties that should be used? There is a big

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issue here and I wish that Mike Weatherby would be a bit more

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upbeat about the challenges we have got about the on homelessness. The

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government is looking at abolishing housing benefit for under 25. Where

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others people going to go? At the moment they have made it the case

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that anyone up to the age of 35, you are not entitled to a flat, you

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are entitled to a single room. There is no question, everyone

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believes that homelessness will go up and you'll get a witless young

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people who will turn to squatting. But he will get young people who

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have no roots. Let's give the last word to market -- Mike Weatherley.

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We should do much -- mortar but enter properties back into use, and

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absolutely, the government has put a lot of money into homeless

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initiatives. The break must be made between homeless people and

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squatters. Squatters are trying to get something from nothing whereas

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aromas people need to be looked after, absolutely. -- homeless

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people. Now let's have a look at the round-

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up of the 60 seconds political week. The mayor of London Boris Johnson

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told business leaders that building a new forum way hub airport in the

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Thames estuary was the only way for the UK to compete on the world

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stage. But the boss of budget airline Ryanair dismissed the

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scheme as. It seemed, stupid, hare- brained. Sally burka, the wife of

:59:30.:59:40.
:59:40.:59:41.

the Collins -- Commons Speaker, suspended her but account. She

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caused controversy. A Christian counsellor in Brighton is

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consulting lawyers of the losing and its appeal against expulsion

:59:46.:59:50.

from the Green group. He was suspended in September after voting

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against plans to lift the ban on same-sex marriage. And while the

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south-east MEP Nigel for Russia might be no fan of the colleagues

:00:02.:00:08.

in his European Parliament, the fan -- it is mutual. We are paying a

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salary to Nigel Farage, that is the biggest waste of money.

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I think he took out quite well. Let's talk about Twitter. You are

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on their a lot, and so are you, we are all the publishers, and Sally

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because it was caught out, she is not the anyone. She was very silly

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but she has also advertised an important issue, people who use

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Twitter and other social networking sites need to realise they are

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publishing, that there are laws governing what they can publish,

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published -- journalists have known about them for hundreds of years.

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The rest of the population now need to understand that if they publish

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something they have to take responsibility for their actions.

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You are a former journalist, so you are probably quite careful with

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what you put on Twitter. I think she was a twit! You have to be

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careful, there are restrictions on all mediums and you have to

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apologise. If you make mistakes. What did you think of the

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comeuppance of Nigel Farage? There is a great line -- it is a lot --

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great line but there is a lot of money that can be saved in the

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European Union which is a lot more that Nigel Farage is paid per.

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big problems are still there for David Cameron and the other parties.

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The only thing I do not agree with Nigel Farage on his that I do not

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