Browse content similar to 17/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Most secondary schools have opted to become academies. Should they | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
beat privatise? Should any state school be run for profit? | :01:36. | :01:46. | |
:01:46. | :01:46. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2117 seconds | :01:46. | :37:04. | |
I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics in the South East. | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
Coming up later. Could there be life in Kent's dying nuclear site | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
in Dungeness after all? Why new proposals for nuclear power could | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
help revive a local industry? Joining me in the studio today is | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
Conservative MP for Dover and Deal Charlie Elphicke and the leader of | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
the Labour Group on Brighton and Hove City Council Gill Mitchell. | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
Welcome. We'll talk about schools in a moment but let's start with | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
vulnerable children. Medway Council is failing to protect them. A | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
damning Ofsted report says children are not seen quickly enough when | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
they may be at risk. Inspectors have demanded immediate changes, | :37:34. | :37:44. | |
:37:44. | :37:49. | ||
the councillor in charge of children's services has apologised. | :37:49. | :37:54. | |
I think what they should do is in the first instances look at what | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
Kent began Hal Kemp has turned around their services and improved | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
the quality. The lessons learned could be applied. But there was | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
certainly a lot of money involved. The caseload was so high. It is | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
very difficult at the moment with budgets so tight. It is a very | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
challenging time for local government. We should not lose | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
sight of that. They should learn the lessons and hopefully they will | :38:22. | :38:32. | |
:38:32. | :38:34. | ||
put their services back on track. He showed many be ring-fenced. If | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
we cannot protect vulnerable children, what is the local | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
authority for? It is the fact that early intervention grant funding | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
has been cut from local authorities and what you are seeing is that | :38:46. | :38:51. | |
valuable early work which helps to keep children out of needing the | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
production of local authorities being cut back and therefore more | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
of the hard end, if you like, of work falling on be be killed social | :39:01. | :39:10. | |
workers and this Urdd -- is the problem. -- beleaguered. We would | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
want to make sure that those child- protection services were adequately | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
funded but also adequately managed and where we could, we would be | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
wanting to shore up the early support for vulnerable children, | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
vulnerable families. It is not just a problem for vulnerable families. | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
This is a local authority that has terrible problems in terms of | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
primary school results as well. English and mathematics results the | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
worse in the country. Is it just failing its children? I think it | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
needs a focus on improving primary schools and clearly they need to | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
look at how they are doing with young children and young people and | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
how they can give them the better chances and better opportunities in | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
life. There is no quick fix. They need to look at what Kent did to | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
turn around services and the investments across the country on | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
how to make our primary schools really great. When you see they are | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
failing in terms of primary schools, is this an authority that looks -- | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
meets to take a long hard look at children? It is difficult that once | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
you get that level of decline two actually turn things around quickly | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
but it is important to that parents have confidence in those schools | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
and we have a slightly different issue with Brighton and Hove. We | :40:28. | :40:32. | |
have a crisis of school places but luckily, our primary schools are | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
pretty good. Every parent wants a good local school for their child. | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
If your child does well does it matter who's running the school and | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
how? The Head Teachers' union says it does matter. They're hold a | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
meeting in Kent later this month urging schools to resist the | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
pressure to become an academy. But it may be too late to hold back the | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
tide. Nearly two thirds of Kent's secondary schools are already free | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
of local government control. And they're being joined by a growing | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
number of primaries. Can the government continue to fund them | :40:59. | :41:09. | |
:41:09. | :41:10. | ||
all? Lucinda Adam went to find out. It is an education revolution. Most | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
secondary schools in Kent and Medway anile academies or free | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
schools. They had broken away from local authorities and instead get | :41:18. | :41:22. | |
funding directly from central government. They are free to decide | :41:22. | :41:29. | |
what they teach and how they manage their finances. In Kent, 71 out of | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
101 secondary schools are academies or are in the process of converting. | :41:33. | :41:39. | |
In Medway, all but two schools have switched over. And in East Sussex, | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
it is just under half. Academies began under the Labour government | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
as a policy designed in deprived areas but under the coalition | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
government, that policy has been expanded so now all schools can | :41:55. | :42:03. | |
apply and so many have because they get more autonomy and more money. | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
Academies get �25,000 to convert and hundreds of thousands of pounds | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
towards improving buildings. Some have even been bailed out of | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
financial difficulty. But with so many, the scheme is now a billion | :42:17. | :42:24. | |
pounds over Budgett. The government now faces exactly what they were | :42:24. | :42:33. | |
taught about. The demand is not sustainable. Some head teachers in | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
the south-east now say they feel under pressure to convert. And -- | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
an academy gets 10 % more funding but that many would otherwise have | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
gone to the local authority. Kent County Council's school Budgett has | :42:47. | :42:54. | |
been slashed from �15 million to just �2.5 million. It is now | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
stripped to the bowler and we are struggling to deliver our statutory | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
responsibilities and the more schools that converter academies, | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
the money diminishes even faster to an extent where you would have | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
negative money to still deliver the statutory services, such as school | :43:12. | :43:16. | |
transport, support to children with learning difficulties through the | :43:16. | :43:24. | |
state and in process and access to specialist support. This trust is a | :43:24. | :43:29. | |
chain of academies. It says it is getting good results from schools | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
collaborating to share good practice and training its own | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
teachers. Its chief executive thinks the academy system is the | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
way forward. If you look at the number of academies, that is the | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
number of governing bodies who feel that is the best for the future of | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
pupils in that school. It is very positive and I think we will have | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
more and more academies as time goes on. A be you think we could | :43:52. | :43:58. | |
have a situation with the 100 % academies? -- do you. The that is | :43:58. | :44:05. | |
probably the future. But can the government afford it? There's | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
nothing worse for a head teacher, its treasurer of a governing body | :44:09. | :44:16. | |
of a school, to not know where the next payroll is going to come from | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
and if you take it to its logical conclusion, they could be | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
struggling to pay a role in a few years' time. The now it has been | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
suggested that profit-making private companies could have a role. | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
Education secretary Michael Gove has already allowed one profit -- a | :44:32. | :44:42. | |
school to be allowed to run for profit in Suffolk. The idea of | :44:42. | :44:46. | |
frankly bringing in a private company would be able to make a | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
profit out of education and education our youngsters, I think | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
most people would find that horrible. What becomes the driving | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
force is actually the return, the dividends, for those shareholders | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
of that given company. I do not think private companies should make | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
a profit. That is not the way to go. This is money from the public purse. | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
On the money that we get, we spend on the pupils within our academies. | :45:13. | :45:20. | |
That is the way you raise standards. I do not think it should be for | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
chains like ours to make a profit. As the number continues to grow, | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
how does the government planned to pay for them? By expanding the | :45:29. | :45:39. | |
:45:39. | :45:49. | ||
system to all schools, as it bitten You're a pretty intimately involved | :45:49. | :45:55. | |
in government decisions about key policies like education. How does | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
the government continued to fund the Academy's programme? It is | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
quite straightforward. The amount of money that was being spent on | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
schools that were in local authority control is now being | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
spent on schools that are academies. The only difference is, you were | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
talking about 10 % of the Budgett going to local authorities, it is | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
now going direct to schools. It is not costing any more by having | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
academies. It is just that the money is in the hands of the school | :46:22. | :46:28. | |
or schools and they are able to buy services more effectively than | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
local authorities. And none Academy schools disadvantaged? You heard | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
the leader of the council saying they are struggling to deliver for | :46:38. | :46:47. | |
the rest of their schools. Ali getting to a point where schools | :46:48. | :46:57. | |
:46:58. | :47:02. | ||
will have to become academies? -- are we. I do not think so. There | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
are some local authorities where almost none have converted. | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
Generally speaking, if a lot have converted in a local authority it | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
says something about what they think of the local authority and if | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
they are looking at the kind of numbers you are talking us looking | :47:15. | :47:22. | |
at, if they are looking at leaving at that rate, it says something | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
about be services. And they think they can get a better deal by going | :47:27. | :47:35. | |
it alone. This is a transitional cost which is effectively the | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
�25,000 which really just goes on legal fees. There is a cost of | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
moving from one form of governance to another. But it is a one-off. It | :47:43. | :47:51. | |
is not on overall cost. How much truth is there the Independent on | :47:51. | :47:59. | |
Sunday has said that leak memos suggest that they are thinking of | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
privatising academies. We have to be very careful using words like | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
privatisation. One of the people in the film talked about there being | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
horror that private companies would be involved. Money is spent in | :48:15. | :48:20. | |
special schools from profit-making companies. About a third of | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
nurseries are run by profit-making companies. Are they doing very good | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
job. The people using them would probably have no idea they are | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
making a profit. That comes to the heart of it. What matters in the | :48:31. | :48:40. | |
end is what works. I think that we are in a situation where we have a | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
pretty good education system in this country but Ofsted said that | :48:43. | :48:48. | |
up to 40 % of teaching is not good enough. That means maybe a third of | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
schools are underperforming. We need to look at every possible | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
solution. Academies are one part of it. Potentially we may need to look | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
at whether the profits sector can make -- play a role. I am sure that | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
parents just what a good local school. Do you think we should be | :49:05. | :49:15. | |
:49:15. | :49:16. | ||
allowed schools to be run for a profit? You referred to the school | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
in Suffolk where the governors have appointed a private company to run | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
the school for them. That is an interesting model. Governors are | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
bound by their obligation to the welfare of the child. They have | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
appointed a company to run the school. That is quite different to | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
having the board of directors of a company being the governors. There | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
is an important distinction. I think there is some future in | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
allowing governing bodies which themselves are charities tour. | :49:41. | :49:51. | |
:49:51. | :49:58. | ||
Private providers to run parts of the school. -- to appoint. Clearly | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
academy status does not guarantee good result. Parents are interested | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
in getting the best results. And opportunities for their children. | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
You're right. There is an issue with Christchurch Academy. I was | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
there last week and I met with the interim principle. He has a great | :50:13. | :50:21. | |
plan to turn things. They are making sure that people -- children | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
get the best chances in life. It will take a year to be visible. But | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
the key thing is that what is in progress. You have head teachers | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
taking real responsibility immediately without all of the | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
county council level bureaucracy. On this very subject of failing | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
academies, it is a horrible word to use about any school but it is not | :50:41. | :50:47. | |
just the situation in Christchurch Academy. 16 schools in Kent failing | :50:47. | :50:55. | |
to reach key benchmark. If a failing school can be turned into | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
an academy, what do you do would be failing Academy? That is a very | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
good question. On average, they have performed better than | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
comparative schools. That does not mean to say that every academy has | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
been a success. Some of them have taken over in really trying | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
circumstances. Some of them have taken over in difficult | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
circumstances. If there is a problem with an Academy, then we | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
need to look at other options. One option is looking at chains of | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
academies. The research I have done suggests they are even more | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
effective at raising results. But if that does not work, that is | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
where we do have to contemplate whether Iraq skills and resources | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
in the private sector that we can put to work for the most | :51:37. | :51:43. | |
disadvantaged children. Would you ever be happy with the schools | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
being run for profit in the state sector? Absolutely not. This is | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
rather a circular argument. What we are losing sight of is that the | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
only way that the Conservative government now was giving any money | :51:54. | :52:00. | |
at all for new schools as if they are free schools or academies, over | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
which local authorities -- local bodies have no control. Every time | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
one pops up and is established, that is less money coming to the | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
local authority. What we need still is a democratically accountable | :52:11. | :52:16. | |
local educational authority who can have the power to intervene to | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
raise standards, to achieve what we have just talked about, the synergy | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
between schools, so that they can learn from each other, who can put | :52:25. | :52:31. | |
forward a fair admissions policy and manage this process. We are in | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
the worst possible world now where there is such uncertainty about | :52:34. | :52:39. | |
future school provision. We are now talking about future funding being | :52:39. | :52:45. | |
at risk. All parents warned -- what is a good local school. That is | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
being increasingly difficult to promised parents two years down the | :52:49. | :52:59. | |
:52:59. | :53:03. | ||
line. Could experimental technology help save Kent's nuclear industry? | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
A report by government scientists due to be published later this year | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
will set out nuclear options for the UK, including the building of | :53:09. | :53:11. | |
smaller reactors powered in new ways. Shepway Council wants to | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
develop a new reactor in Dungeness, but the government says NO. So does | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
the South East have any sort of nuclear future? Joining me from our | :53:18. | :53:26. | |
Westminster studio is energy expert Malcolm Grimston. What do you think | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
should happen? The difficulty with the Dungeness site is that it is in | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
a very important area of natural beauty, the shingles there are | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
quite a rare habitat. They are designated at a European level. | :53:42. | :53:52. | |
:53:52. | :53:55. | ||
Actually since the de commissioning of the station on the site, if it | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
is taken apart more rapidly, there may be space there to put the works | :53:58. | :54:03. | |
for a new reactor in the course of the next 10 years or so. But it is | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
a difficult argument. What I think is clear is if United Kingdom does | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
aim to replace all of its current UK stations -- nuclear stations | :54:12. | :54:18. | |
with nuclear power plants to make sure we are not to wind -- too | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
dependent on imported gas, Dungeness would have to come into | :54:21. | :54:28. | |
the picture. Kent is short of capacity of all sorts. And there is | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
the supportive workforce locally. And the infrastructure in place. | :54:33. | :54:40. | |
used a lot of energy in the south- east. Yes, and if you include | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
London into the south-east, by a long way, the south-east and London | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
has the biggest energy deficit in the United Kingdom. Back large | :54:47. | :54:54. | |
amounts of electricity are imported from the North, the existing Cole | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
stations in Nottinghamshire and Yorkshire, for example. And | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
transporting electricity, you need wires, that is unsightly. You waste | :55:02. | :55:11. | |
energy through that. Are they a genuine alternative technologies? | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
You could dazzle us with a fast reactors and fusion. I do not have | :55:16. | :55:23. | |
a degree in physics. Are there different techniques? In theory, | :55:23. | :55:31. | |
yes. But at the moment, no. The report is really looking beyond the | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
year 2030 and there are a number of quite exciting approach is to | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
nuclear energy which could be exploited them. Nuclear energy is | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
not like wind and water which we have been using for thousands of | :55:40. | :55:47. | |
years. The problems with those is you do not get the energy necessary | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
when you want it. They have been the search for a long time and very | :55:51. | :55:57. | |
little has emerged by way of an answer. There are ways of getting | :55:57. | :56:04. | |
energy from uranium which are quite different from the reactors but | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
none of those is ready at the moment. I think to get us through | :56:07. | :56:11. | |
the immediate future, which has a lot of nuclear power plants and | :56:11. | :56:16. | |
Cole plants, come into the end of their lives in the next 10 to 15 | :56:16. | :56:26. | |
:56:26. | :56:37. | ||
OK. Thank you. It is good to have you with us. You want to see an | :56:38. | :56:43. | |
extension of renewables. They are so much more expensive in terms of | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
how much it costs to produce the energy. 14 % of the population is | :56:48. | :56:55. | |
in fuel poverty. Nuclear is the issue -- is the cheapest source of | :56:55. | :57:00. | |
energy. Any energy policy, you do need security of supply. It has to | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
be low carbon. And yes, it has to be affordable. But that does not | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
mean to say that we cannot stop investing in renewable energy. | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
Because the one thing that of course is so contentious around the | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
production of nuclear energy is the disposal and we have just seen that | :57:17. | :57:27. | |
:57:27. | :57:36. | ||
has created quite a high a Test cap in Cumbria. It never made any sense | :57:36. | :57:44. | |
will stop we have a nuclear energy industry in Kent. The work force | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
should be put to work in a village macro. What is standing in the way | :57:49. | :57:57. | |
is a man-made Beach. I say that the zero carbon energy production is | :57:57. | :58:07. | |
:58:07. | :58:16. | ||
more important to our environment A Kent butcher says he wants to | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
sell horsemeat legitimately because his customers are curious to try it. | :58:22. | :58:29. | |
The supplier has said to us, he does sell it. Dame Kelly Holmes | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
treated this me -- this week that she is fed up of the government | :58:35. | :58:42. | |
ignoring her calls for more P lessons. We need to make sure that | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
we give young children the opportunity to try all scored -- | :58:45. | :58:55. | |
:58:55. | :58:57. | ||
sports. Potholes in the south-east have reached Third World standards | :58:57. | :59:05. | |
and that is damaging the economy, according to the RAC. And he says | :59:05. | :59:11. | |
it will be his most unique gig so far. Playing the House of Commons | :59:11. | :59:21. | |
:59:21. | :59:23. | ||
next month for a charity supporting A very quick thought on horsemeat. | :59:23. | :59:30. | |
I would not eat it but I am glad that he is labelling it. I do not | :59:30. | :59:36. |