Browse content similar to 09/02/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. Rising flood water, | :00:38. | :00:46. | |
a battered coastline, the winter storms forced the Government to take | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
control. Is it hanging the Environment Agency out to dry? | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
Embarrassment for the Government is the Immigration Minister resigns | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
after he discovered he was employing a cleaner with no right to work here | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
for seven years. Ed Miliband promised an end to what he called | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
In the south`east, who should pay in the Labour Party, | :01:10. | :01:17. | |
In the south`east, who should pay for our children to get to school? | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
We look at the Kent bus pass In London after two days of | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
disruption in the capital the Mayor Boris Johnson will be talking to ask | :01:25. | :01:34. | |
about strife on the Underground All of that and after a week of very | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
public coalition spats can David Cameron and Nick Clegg keep the | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
coalition show on the road? Two senior party figures will go head to | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
head. And with me, Helen Lewis, Nick Watt and Iain Martin who would not | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
know they Somerset Levels from their Norfolk Broads, but that will not | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
stop them tweeting their thoughts. We start with the strange Case of | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
the Immigration Minister, his cleaner and some lost documents | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
Yesterday Mark Harper tendered his resignation, telling the media he | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
had discovered the cleaner who worked for him for seven years did | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
not have the right to work in the UK. The Communities Secretary Eric | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
Pickles said he had done the honourable thing. I was sad to see | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
him go, he was a strong minister. Had he been a member of the public | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
he would not have done anything wrong, but he set himself a very | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
high standard and he felt that standard and honourably stood down. | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
This would seem like a good resignation, maybe unlike the | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
Baroness Scotland one years ago on a similar issue, but have we been told | :02:48. | :02:55. | |
the full story? We wait to see that. Labour have picked up saying he is | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
an honourable man, that the reason why he resigned is these very owners | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
checks that landlords and employers will have to perform on employees | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
over their documentation. The most interesting line is that, we do not | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
require them to be experts or spot anything other than an obvious | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
forgery. The suggestion that there is the document he was presented | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
with originality, which he lost was on home office paper and was perhaps | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
not entirely accurate. That is the embarrassment. He is the minister | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
putting through a bill that will demand tougher checks on people and | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
he himself did not do enough checks to discover she was illegal. There | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
is an odd bit where he involves the home office later to check her out | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
as well. He writes a resignation letter and he has to hold himself to | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
pay higher standard. He has done the David Laws approach to this, resign | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
quickly and he can come back. David Cameron wants him to return swiftly | :04:02. | :04:09. | |
to the frontbenchers. He is a state school educated lad. He is the kind | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
of Tory that the Tories are in short supply of. He is a rising star. I | :04:16. | :04:23. | |
would caution on this idea that it is customary that whenever anyone | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
resigns, it is always thought they will come straight back into office. | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
If only the outside world worked like that. It is not, in a company | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
if the HR person resigns, he is such a great chap he will be back next | :04:38. | :04:45. | |
week. There is a silver lining for David Cameron is he has been able to | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
move Harriet Bond up as he moves everyone up. But nobody will see her | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
in the whips office because she is not allowed to appear on television. | :04:57. | :05:02. | |
And if you three want to resign Do not hate you are coming back next | :05:03. | :05:10. | |
week. But we will do it with honour. It has been a hellish week for | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
residents of coastal areas with more storms bringing more flooding and | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
after Prince Charles visited the Somerset Levels on Tuesday the | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
Government has been keen to show it has got a grip on the situation at | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
last. For last weekend's Sunday Politics I | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
made the watery journey to the village of Muchelney, cut off for a | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
whole month. Now everyone has been dropping in. First it was Prince | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
Charles on a park bench pulled by a tractor. He waded into the row about | :05:45. | :05:59. | |
how the floods have been handled. Next it was the chair of the | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
Environment Agency, Lord Smith, who faced angry residents. Sought the | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
river is out. That is precisely what we are going to do. Where he faced, | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
a resident, he did not need that many. David Cameron went for a look | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
as well and gave the region what it wanted, more pumps, more money and | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
in the long-term the return of dredging. There are lessons to | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
learn. The pause in bridging that took place from the late 1990s was | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
wrong and we need to get dredging again. When the water levels come | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
down and it is safe to dredge, we will dredging to make sure these | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
rivers and stitches can carry a better capacity. The Environment | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
Secretary Owen Paterson has not been seen again because he is recovering | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
from emergency eye surgery. In the meantime the floodwaters rose ever | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
higher. Some residents were told to evacuate. In Devon the railway was | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
washed away by the waves leaving a big gap in the network. Look at the | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
weather this weekend. If you can believe it, the storms keep rolling | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
in. What is the long-term solution for flood prone areas of the | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
country? I am joined from Oxford by the editor of The Ecologist | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
magazine, Oliver Tickell, and by local MP Tessa Munt. Tessa, let me | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
come to you first. What do you now want the Government to do? I want it | :07:37. | :07:44. | |
to make sure it does exactly as it promises and delivers what every | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
farmer and landowner around here knows should have been done for | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
years. First, to solve the problems we have right now, but to make sure | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
there is money in the bank for us to carry on doing the maintenance that | :07:58. | :08:03. | |
is necessary. Was it a mistake not to do the dredging? When the waters | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
start to subside does dredging become a key part of this? Yes, of | :08:07. | :08:14. | |
course. It is something the farmers have been asking for four years | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
When you wander along a footpath by a river and you see trees growing | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
and there is 60% of the capacity only because there is silt, it needs | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
to have a pretty dramatic action right now and then we need to make | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
sure the maintenance is ongoing Oliver Tickell, was it a mistake to | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
stop the dredging? If the dredging had happened, the land would not be | :08:43. | :08:51. | |
covered in water for so long? Clearly it is necessary to do at | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
least some dredging on these rivers and in particular because these | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
rivers are well above ground level. They are carrying water that comes | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
down off the hills well above the level of the flood plain on the | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
Somerset Levels. They naturally tend to silt up. But the key thing is | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
that is only a small part of the overall solution. What we need is a | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
catchment wide approach to improve infiltration upstream and you also | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
need to manage the flood plain on the levels and upstream so as to | :09:29. | :09:35. | |
have active flood plain that can store water. This idea it is just | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
about dredging is erroneous. Dredging is a part of it, but it is | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
a catchment wide solution. Dredging is only a small part of the solution | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
he says. Yes, of course it is. But look here. With the farmer is | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
locally, the landowners, they know this land will carry water for a few | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
weeks of the year, that is not a problem. But this water has to be | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
taken away and there is a very good system of drainage and it works | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
perfectly well. In my area there are serious problems because the | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
dredging has not taken place. There are lunatic regulations around were | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
when they do do some of dredging, the Environment Agency is asked to | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
take it away because it is considered toxic waste. This is | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
barmy. We need to take the stuff out of the rivers and build the banks up | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
so we create protection in the future. We have to make sure the | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
dredging is done but make sure the drainage works well and we have | :10:45. | :10:52. | |
pumps in places and we have floodgates put onto the rivers. We | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
need to make sure repairs are done more quickly. All right, let me go | :10:57. | :11:04. | |
back to Oliver Tickell. Is it not the case a lot of people on your | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
side of the argument would like to see lands like the Somerset Levels | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
return to natural habitat? Looe I would like a degree of that, but | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
that does not mean the whole place needs to turn into wilderness so it | :11:19. | :11:28. | |
will remain agricultural landscape. Everybody, all the interested | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
parties who signed up to a document called vision 2034 the Somerset | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
Levels envisages most of the area of the Somerset Levels being turned | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
over to extensive grassland and that is what it is best suited for. Let | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
me put that to Tessa Munt. Have you signed up to this where you will end | :11:50. | :11:58. | |
up with extensive grassland? I have seen it, but grass does not grow if | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
water is sitting on this land for weeks and weeks. What you have to | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
remember is a lot of the levels are managed very carefully and they are | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
conservation land and that means cattle are allowed to go out at | :12:14. | :12:19. | |
certain times of the year and in certain numbers. It is well managed. | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
Do you accept it should return to grassland? Grassland, fine, but you | :12:24. | :12:32. | |
cannot call land grassland in the flipping water is on it so long that | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
nothing grows. It is no good at doing that. You have got to make | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
sure it is managed properly. Drainage has been taking place on | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
this land for centuries. It is the case the system is there, but it | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
needs to be maintained properly and we have to have fewer ridiculous | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
regulations that stop action. Last year the flooding minister agreed | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
dredging should take place and everything stopped. Now we have got | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
the promise from the Prime Minister and I thank Prince Charles for that. | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
Is it not time to let the local people run their land rather than | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
being told what to do by the Environment Agency, central | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
Government and the European Union? The internal drainage boards have | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
considerable power in all of this. They wanted to dredge and they were | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
not allowed to. The farmers want to dredge that is what is going to | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
happen, but they have signed up to a comprehensive vision of catchment | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
management and of environmental improvement turning the Somerset | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
Levels into a world-class haven for wildlife. It is not much good if | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
your house is underwater. The farmers themselves, the RSPB, the | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
drainage boards, they have all signed up to this. The real question | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
now is how do we implement that vision? You give the money to the | :14:05. | :14:12. | |
drainage boards. At the moment they pay 27% of their money and have been | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
doing so for years and years and this is farmers' money and it has | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
been going to the drainage boards and they pay the Environment Agency | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
who are meant to be dredging and that has not happened. We have to | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
leave it there. We have run out of time. | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
Last week saw the Labour Party adopts an historic change with its | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
relationship with the unions. Changes to the rules that propelled | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
Ed Miliband to the top. Ed Miliband was elected Labour leader in 20 0 by | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
the electoral college system which gives unions, party members and MPs | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
one third of votes each. This would be changed into a simpler one | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
member, one vote system. A union member would have to become an | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
affiliated member of the party. They would have to opt in and pay ?3 a | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
year. But the unions would have 50% of the vote at the conference and | :15:11. | :15:16. | |
around one third of the seats on the National executive committee. The | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
proposals are a financial gamble as well. It is estimated the party | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
could face a drop in funding of up to ?5 million a year when the | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
changes are fully implemented in five years. The leader of the Unite | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
trade union has welcomed the report saying it is music to his ears. The | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
package will be voted on at a special one of conference in March. | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
And the Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna joins me now for the | :15:48. | :15:55. | |
Sunday Interview. Welcome back. In what way will the unions have less | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
power and influence in the Labour Party? This is about ensuring | :16:00. | :16:05. | |
individual trade union members have a direct relationship with the | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
Labour Party. At the moment the monies that come to us are decided | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
at a top level, the general secretaries determine this, whether | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
the individual members want us to be in receipt of those monies or not so | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
we are going to change that so that affiliation fees follow the consent | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
of individual members. Secondly we want to make sure the individual | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
trade union members, people who teach our children, power via - | :16:34. | :16:42. | |
fantastic British businesses, we want them to make an active choice, | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
and we are also recognising that in this day and age not everybody wants | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
to become a member of a political party. We haven't got much time The | :16:55. | :17:05. | |
unions still have 50% of the vote at Labour conferences, there will be | :17:06. | :17:15. | |
the single most important vote, more member -- union members will vote | :17:16. | :17:29. | |
than nonunion members, their power has not diminished at all, has it? | :17:30. | :17:39. | |
In relation to the other parts of the group of people who will be | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
voting in a future leadership contest, we are seeking to move | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
towards more of a one member, one vote process. At the moment we have | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
the absurd situation where I, as a member of Parliament, my vote will | :17:54. | :18:02. | |
count for 1000. MPs are losing. . They still have a lot of power. I am | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
a member of the GMB union and the Unite union, also a member of the | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
Fabians as well so I get free votes on top of my vote as a member of | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
Parliament. We are moving to a system where I will have one vote | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
and that is an important part of this. You asked how many people | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
would be casting their votes. The last time around, under the | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
old system, up to 2.8 million ballot papers were sent out with prepaid | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
envelopes for people to return their papers were sent out with prepaid | :18:37. | :18:46. | |
turnout. The idea that you are going to see a big change... Even if | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
your individual party members. In one vital way, your purse strings, | :18:52. | :19:04. | |
your individual party members. In the unions will be more powerful | :19:05. | :19:05. | |
than ever because at the moment they have to hand over 8 million to | :19:06. | :19:16. | |
than ever because at the moment they fraction of that now. They will get | :19:17. | :19:18. | |
to keep that money, but then come the election you go to them and give | :19:19. | :19:28. | |
them a lot of money -- and they will have you then. They won't have us, | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
as you put it! The idea that individual trade union members don't | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
have their own view, their own voice, and just do what their | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
general secretaries do is absurd. They will make their own decision, | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
and we want them to make that and not have their leadership decide | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
that for them. Let me go to the money. The Labour Party manifesto | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
will be reflecting the interests of Britain, and the idea that somehow | :20:00. | :20:06. | |
people can say we are not going to give you this money unless you do | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
this or that, we will give you a policy agenda which is appropriate | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
for the British people, regardless of what implications that may have | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
financially. They will have more seats than anybody else in the NEC | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
and they will hold the purse strings. They will be the | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
determining factor. They won't be. Unite is advocating a 70% rate of | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
income tax, there is no way we will have that in our manifesto. Unite is | :20:36. | :20:43. | |
advocating taking back contracts and no compensation basis, we would not | :20:44. | :20:56. | |
-- there is no way we would do that. How many chief executives of the | :20:57. | :21:07. | |
FTSE 100 are backing Labour? We have lots of chief executives backing | :21:08. | :21:15. | |
Labour. I don't know the exact number. Ed Miliband has just placed | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
an important business person in the House of Lords, the former chief | :21:19. | :21:30. | |
executive of the ITV, Bill Grimsey. How many? You can only name one | :21:31. | :21:39. | |
Bill Grimsey, there is also John Mills. Anyone who is currently | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
chairman of the chief executive With the greatest respect, you are | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
talking about less than half the percent of business leaders in our | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
country, we have almost 5 million businesses, not all FTSE 100 | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
businesses, not all listed, and we are trying to get people from across | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
the country of all different shapes and sizes. Let's widen it to the | :22:08. | :22:22. | |
FTSE 250. That is 250 out of 5 million companies. The largest ones, | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
they make the profits and provide the jobs. Two thirds of private | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
sector jobs in this country come from small and medium-sized | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
businesses, and small and medium-sized businesses are an | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
important part of a large companies supply chains. So you cannot name a | :22:41. | :22:51. | |
single chairman from the FTSE 2 0, correct? I don't know all the | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
chairman. Are you going to fight the next election without a single boss | :22:59. | :23:09. | |
of a FTSE 250 company? I have named some important business people, but | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
the most important thing is that we are not coming out with a manifesto | :23:13. | :23:22. | |
for particular interests, but for broader interest. Let me show you, | :23:23. | :23:32. | |
Digby Jones says Labour's policy is, "if it creates wealth, let's kick | :23:33. | :23:46. | |
it" . Another quote, that it borders on predatory taxation. They think | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
you are anti-business. I don't agree with them. One of the interesting | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
things about Sir Stuart's comments on the predatory taxation and I | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
think he was referring to the 5 p rate of tax is that he made some | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
comments arguing against the reduction of the top rate of tax | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
from 50p. He is saying something different now. Digby of course has | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
his own opinions, he has never been a member of the Labour Party. Let me | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
come onto this business of the top rate of tax, do you accept or don't | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
you that there is a point when higher rates of income tax become | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
counter-productive? Ultimately you want to have the lowest tax rates | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
possible. Do you accept there is a certain level you actually get less | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
money? I think ultimately there is a level beyond you could go which | :24:44. | :24:49. | |
would be counter-productive, for example the 75% rate of tax I | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
mentioned earlier, being advocated by Unite in France. Most French | :24:55. | :25:07. | |
higher earners will pay less tax than under your plans. I beg your | :25:08. | :25:15. | |
pardon, with the 50p? Under your proposals, people here will pay more | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
tax than French higher earners. If you are asking if in terms of the | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
level, you asked the question and I answered it, do I think if you reach | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
a level beyond which the tax burden becomes counter-productive, can I | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
give you a number what that would be, I cannot but let me explain - | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
the reason we have sought to increase its two 50p is that we can | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
get in revenue to reduce the deficit. In an ideal world you | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
wouldn't need a 50p rate of tax which is why during our time in | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
office we didn't have one, because we didn't have those issues. Sure, | :25:57. | :26:07. | |
though you cannot tell me how much the 50p will raise. In the three | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
years of operation we think it raised ?10 billion. You think. That | :26:13. | :26:22. | |
was based on extrapolation from the British library. It is at least | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
possible I would suggest, for the sake of argument, that when you | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
promise to take over half people's income, which is what you will do if | :26:32. | :26:38. | |
you get your way, the richest 1 currently account for 70 5% of all | :26:39. | :26:49. | |
tax revenues. -- 75%. Is it not a danger that if you take more out of | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
them, they will just go? I don't think so, we are talking about the | :26:57. | :27:05. | |
top 1% here. If you look at the directors of sub 5 million turnover | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
companies, the average managing director of that gets around | :27:09. | :27:23. | |
?87,000. Let me narrow it down to something else. Let's take the .1% | :27:24. | :27:32. | |
of top taxpayers, down to fewer than 30,000 people. They account for over | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
14% of all of the income tax revenues. Only 29,000 people. If | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
they go because you are going to take over half their income, you | :27:44. | :27:50. | |
have lost a huge chunk of your tax base. They could easily go, at | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
tipping point they could go. What we are advocating here is not | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
controversial. Those with the broadest shoulders, it is not | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
unreasonable to ask them to share the heavier burden. Can you name one | :28:07. | :28:16. | |
other major economy that subscribes to this? Across Europe, for example | :28:17. | :28:24. | |
in Sweden they have higher tax rates than us. Can you name one major | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
economy? I couldn't pluck one out of the air, I can see where you are | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
coming from, I don't agree with it. I think most people subscribe to the | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
fact that those with wider shoulders should carry the heavy a burden We | :28:42. | :28:48. | |
have run out of time but thank you for being here. | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
Over the past week it seems that Nick Clegg has activated a new Lib | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
Dem strategy - 'Get Gove'. After a very public spat over who should | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
head up the schools inspection service Ofsted, Lib Dem sources have | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
continued to needle away at the Education Secretary. And other | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
senior Lib Dems have also taken aim at their coalition partners. Here's | :29:07. | :29:30. | |
Giles Dilnot. It's unlikely the polite welcome of these school | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
children to Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg and his party colleague | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
schools minister David Laws would be so forthcoming right now from the | :29:37. | :29:38. | |
man in charge of schools Conservative Michael Gove. Mr Laws | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
is said to have been furious with The Education secretary over the | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
decision to remove Sally Morgan as chair of Ofsted. But those who know | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
the inner working of the Lib Dems say that's just understandable. When | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
you have the department not being consulted, it would be possible for | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
him to not publicly comment. The remarkable thing would be if he | :29:54. | :29:56. | |
hadn't said anything at all. We should be careful to understand this | :29:57. | :30:07. | |
is not always part of a preplanned decision. There is a growing sense | :30:08. | :30:17. | |
that inside Number Ten this is a concerted Lib Dem strategy, we also | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
understand there is no love lost between Nick Clegg and Michael Gove | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
to say the least, and a growing frustration that if the Lib Dems | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
think such so-called yellow and blue attacks can help them with the | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
election, they can also damage the long-term prospects of the Coalition | :30:35. | :30:42. | |
post 2015. One spat does not a divorce make but perhaps even more | :30:43. | :30:44. | |
significant has been Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander s | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
recent newspaper interview firmly spiking any room for George Osborne | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
to manoeuvre on lowering the highest income tax rate to 40p. All this | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
builds on the inclusion in Government at the reshuffle of | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
people like Norman Baker at the Home Office and Simon Hughes at Justice | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
people who are happier to publically express doubt on Conservative | :31:00. | :31:01. | |
policy, unlike say Jeremy Browne who was removed and who has made plain | :31:02. | :31:14. | |
his views on Coalition. It is difficult for us to demonstrate that | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
we are more socialist than an Ed Miliband Labour led party. Even if | :31:19. | :31:27. | |
we did wish to demonstrate it, doing it in coalition with the | :31:28. | :31:33. | |
Conservatives would be harder still. Nonetheless a differentiation | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
strategy was always likely as 2 15 approached, so is there evidence it | :31:38. | :31:43. | |
works? Or of the work we publish shows the Lib Dems have a huge | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
problem in terms of their distinctiveness, so attacking their | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
coalition partners or the Labour Party is helpful in showing what | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
they are against, but there are bigger problem is showing what they | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
are for. And one Conservative MP with access to Number Ten as part of | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
the PM's policy board says yellow on blue attacks are misplaced and | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
irresponsible. At this stage when all the hard work is being done and | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
the country is back on its feet the Lib Dems are choosing the time to | :32:17. | :32:24. | |
step away from the coalition. That is your position, but do you suspect | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
coming up to the next election we will see more of this? I think the | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
Lib Dems are about as hard to pin down as a weasel in Vaseline. And | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
with the public's view of politicians right now, and wants to | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
be seen as slicker than a well oiled weasel? And we have Lib Dem peer | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
Matthew Oakeshott and senior Conservative backbencher Bernard | :32:52. | :33:01. | |
Jenkin. Matthew, the Lib Dems are now picking fights with the Tories | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
on a range of issues, some of them trivial. Is this a Pirelli used to | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
Lib Dem withdrawal from the coalition? I do not know, I am not | :33:11. | :33:18. | |
privy to Nick Clegg's in strategy. Some of us have been independent for | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
some time. I resigned over treatment of the banks. That is now being | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
sorted out. But what is significant is we have seen a string of attacks, | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
almost an enemy within strategy When you have Nick Clegg, David Laws | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
and Danny Alexander, the three key people closest to the Conservatives, | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
when you see all of them attacking, and this morning Nick Clegg has had | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
a go at the Conservatives over drug policy. There is a string of | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
policies where something is going on. It is difficult to do an enemy | :33:56. | :34:02. | |
within strategy. I believe as many Lib Dems do that we should withdraw | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
from the coalition six months to one year before the election so we can | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
put our positive policies across rather than having this tricky | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
strategy of trying to do it from within. Why does David Cameron need | :34:17. | :34:24. | |
the Lib Dems? He probably does not. The country generally favoured the | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
coalition to start with. Voters like to see politicians are working | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
together and far more of that goes on in Westminster then we see. Most | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
of my committee reports are unanimous reports from all parties. | :34:39. | :34:46. | |
Why does he need them? I do not think he does. You would be happy to | :34:47. | :34:54. | |
see the Lib Dems go? I would always be happy to see a single minority | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
Government because it would be easier for legislation. The | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
legislation you could not get through would not get through | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
whether we were in coalition or not. The 40p tax rate, there | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
probably is not a majority in the House of Commons at the moment, | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
despite what Nick Clegg originally said. It does not make much | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
difference. What makes a difference from the perspective of the | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
committee I chair is historically we have had single party Government | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
that have collective responsibility and clarity. The reason that is | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
important is because nothing gets done if everybody is at sixes and | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
sevens in the Government. Everything stops, there is paralysis as the row | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
goes on. Civil servants do not know who they are working for. If it | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
carries on getting fractures, there is a bigger argument to get out If | :35:50. | :35:56. | |
it continues at this level of intensity of the enemy within | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
strategy as you have described it, can the coalition survived another | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
16 months of this? It is also a question should they. I never | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
thought I would say this, I agree with Bernard. Interestingly earlier | :36:10. | :36:17. | |
Chuka Umunna missed the point talking about business support. | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
Business is worried about this anti-European rhetoric and that is a | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
deep split between the Liberal Democrats and the UKIP wing of the | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
Tory party. That is really damaging and that is something we need to | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
make our own case separately on Do you get fed up when you hear | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
constant Lib Dem attacks on you What makes me fed up is my own party | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
cannot respond in kind because we are in coalition. I would love to | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
have this much more open debate I would like to see my own party | :36:51. | :36:57. | |
leader, for example as he did in the House of Commons, it was the Liberal | :36:58. | :36:59. | |
Democrats who blocked the referendum on the house of lords and if we want | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
to get this bill through it should be a Government bill. We know we can | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
get it through the Commons, but we need to get the Liberals out of the | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
Government so they stop blocking the Government putting forward a | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
referendum bill. And put millions of jobs at risk? I am not going down | :37:17. | :37:26. | |
the European road today. It strikes me that given that the attacks from | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
the Lib Dems are now coming from the left attacking the Tories, is this a | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
representative of the failure of Nick Clegg's strategy to rebuild a | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
centrist Liberal party and he now accepts the only way he can save as | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
many seats as he can do is to get the disillusioned left Lib Dem | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
voters to come back to the fold The site is we have lost over half our | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
vote at the last election and at the moment there is no sign in the polls | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
of it coming back and we are getting very close to the next election I | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
welcome it if Nick Clegg is starting to address that problem, but talking | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
about the centre is not the answer. Most Liberal Democrat voters at the | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
last election are radical, progressive people who want to see a | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
much fairer Britain and a much less divided society and we must make | :38:23. | :38:25. | |
sure we maximise our vote from there. We know what both of you | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
want, but what do you think will happen? Do you think this coalition | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
will survive all the way to the election or will it break up | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
beforehand? I think it will break up beforehand. Our long-term economic | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
plan is working. The further changes in policies we want to implement to | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
sustain that plan are being held back by the Liberal Democrats. When | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
will they break up? It has lasted longer than I thought it would, but | :38:58. | :39:02. | |
it must break up at least six months before the election. Do you think it | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
will survive or not? The coalition has delivered a great deal in many | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
ways, but it is running out of steam. It depends what happens in | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
the May elections. If the Liberal Democrats do not do better than we | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
have done in the last three, there will be very strong pressure from | :39:24. | :39:32. | |
the inside. You both agree. Television history has been made. | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up: I will be | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
looking at the Hello. I'm Julia George. Thhs is the | :39:43. | :40:00. | |
Sunday politics in the South East. Coming up, should 16`year`olds and | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
17`year`olds get the vote. We hear from the teenager who is delanding | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
just that. With me is Stephdn Lloyd, Liberal Democrat MP for Eastbourne | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
and Greg Clark, cities minister and Conservative MP for Tunbridge Wells. | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
Our very own South East coalition. Thank you both for joining ts. In | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
one moment we will talk abott attempts to shave money frol a | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
transport budget. The other option is to increase council tax, but a | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
rise of 2% triggers a referdndum. One of your colleagues, Greg Clark, | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
the Communities Minister, Eric Pickles, would like that reduced to | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
1.5%, because he doesn't want councils to go over that before a | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
Conservative comes about. Hd's calling councils like Medwax and | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
East Sussex democracy dodgers, because they're just under 2%. | :40:49. | :40:56. | |
Shouldn't democracy be about the voters making a decision, not about | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
a minister imposing something? It isn't. I took the Bill throtgh | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
Parliament that scraps the capping system that was there. It used to be | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
the case that councils were told how much they could increase by and that | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
was it. We have said, get rhd of that and replace it with a | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
referendum. It seems reason`ble to me, as is happening in Brighton | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
There is a difference betwedn the Conservatives and Liberal Ddmocrats | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
about where that should be. Eric Pickles wanted it to fall to 1. %. | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
In real terms ` I'm not surd there is. You have to set it to what the | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
threshold would be. There is a discussion if Government and you | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
come up with a level and 2% has been settled on. You are not in `greement | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
with Eric Pickles that it should be lower? I would like it to bd frozen. | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
Let me be clear about that. It's a big bill for people and we have | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
provided the funds to freezd it It doubled under Labour and I think if | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
reductions can be made ` Percentages aren't very helpful. Medway, band E, | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
increased by 1.99% it's 43 pence a week and East Sussex is the same on | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
1.5% increase. All the grandstanding about standing up for peopld and the | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
cost of living, a penny on the minimum wage, that would achieve | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
almost the same thing? I wotld say ever little helps. Everyone is | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
feeling cash strapped. It's important that across all sdctors we | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
look to make economies. This coalition has been successftl in | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
providing funds to freeze council tax where they did double under | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
Labour and the council tax hs a big bill for people and I think it's | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
right to be economical. Stephen Lloyd, should councils have to run a | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
referendum at all, why not let them set their taxes and they will be | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
judged by the people at the next election? I think the counchls are a | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
complete staplebles. Eastbotrne Borough Council is capping ht. We | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
are not putting it up. I'm disappointing that East Sussex are | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
choosing to put it up. 43 pdnce a week, is it worth senior ministers | :42:55. | :43:00. | |
giving councils a hard time and calling them democracy dodgdrs over | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
43 pence a week? I think on such an issue, Eastbourne is not putting it | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
up and I think it's good. It's zero council tax. Eastbourne is half as | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
much again as for example mx own council here in Tunbridge wdll | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
wells, so it's `` Tunbridge Wells, so it's quite high. Eastbourne is | :43:19. | :43:27. | |
only ?220 a year for band E. The key thing to remember here is that | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
actually a lot of our Conservative colleagues agree with us th`t Eric | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
Pickles did overstep the mark. I don't think it's unreasonable to | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
hold 2%. CeG put the Bill through Parliament and I reiterate, | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
Eastbourne it's not going up at all in April. We'll take a look at what | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
council tax pays for. We'll look oT what pays for our children to get to | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
school. In Kent there is a generous bus pass, funded by local t`xpayers, | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
children get unlimited bus travel for under ?100 a year, but to save | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
money the Kent County Counchl decided on drastic changes, which | :44:03. | :44:04. | |
meant some parents would be seriously out of pocket. Sole | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
parents and heads got angry and many lined up to sign petitions, but then | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
this week in a surprise movd, crehad a change of heart. | :44:14. | :44:21. | |
This is the bus pass that's caused a political storm in Kent. 13`year`old | :44:22. | :44:32. | |
Alliah uses her Freedom Pass to get to school ten miles away. For ? 00 | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
it gives 11`16`year`olds unlimited travel throughout the countx, but | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
plans to scrap the card and replace it with another scheme could have | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
cost some Kent families an dxtra ?1,000 a year to get their kids to | :44:47. | :44:53. | |
school. Alliah's mum began ` campaign against the changes, a | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
Conservative District Counchl lore. ?1,000 to send children to school is | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
a lot of money. The fact th`t there was no consultation. Nobody knew | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
about it, I believe if you can spoken to parents and spoken to the | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
schools we may have been able to come up with a much better hdea of | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
what people actually want. The Freedom Pass is hugely popular, used | :45:14. | :45:19. | |
by 29,000 young people. It's a discretionary service, the only one | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
of its kind in the country, but it's expensive, costing ?13.5 million a | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
year. As the campaign gained momentum, headteachers encotraged | :45:29. | :45:35. | |
parents to back it and 9,000 people signed on`line petations `` | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
petitions. Then came the surprise news Kent County Council, who were | :45:41. | :45:43. | |
facing mounting anger from thousands of parents, have made a U`ttrn on | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
plans to change the Freedom Pass used by schoolchildren. Out of the | :45:48. | :45:50. | |
blue, the council seemed to buckle under the weight of popular opinion | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
and announced revised plans for a new transport scheme for yotng | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
people. It's twice the cost of the original pass at ?200, for tnlimited | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
week`day travel from 8.00pm. Opposition parties have said it s a | :46:05. | :46:08. | |
humiliation for the Conserv`tive`led council and another critic says KC C | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
has egg on its face, but wh`t do campaigners think? It's going to | :46:14. | :46:16. | |
cost me now ?400 to get the two children to school. It would have | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
cost ?1,000 with the previots proposal. Yes, it's a U`turn and I | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
am very happy with what thex've done. With Kent's selective school | :46:28. | :46:36. | |
system and many rural villages, thousands of children take the bus. | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
corner, looking to claw back ?2 3 corner, looking to claw back ?2 3 | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
million over the next three years. Something has to give. But ht's the | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
lack of consultation that's upset many people. The section rightly or | :46:51. | :46:59. | |
wrongly that KCC have had the discussion behind closed doors. That | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
actually this is not a decision that has been taking place in full | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
council, with proper scrutiny. Public transport will always be an | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
emotive issue. It affects pdople's lives, but some political p`rties | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
believe there was never any need to meddle with the Freedom Pass. To put | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
it foo context, the amount that the council is trying to save from the | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
move is dwarfed by some of the individual road projects. It's a | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
very car`centric council and when you are looking at where thd | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
priorities might be, you cotld look at taking out one of the ro`d | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
projects around the county `nd that would pay for the pass over three or | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
four years. Ten and 11`year`olds will find out which secondary school | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
they'll be going to next month. Parents just want reassurance that | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
they will be able to afford to get their kids to school and sthll | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
there's uncertainty, becausd the new scheme is only a proposal. Will this | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
idea get backing? We'll find out at a council meeting this week. Joining | :47:59. | :48:08. | |
me now is David Brady, in charge of transport policy and the ch`nge of | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
heart. Opposition parties h`ve described this as a humiliation Do | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
you feel you've got egg on xour face? Not in the least. We were | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
asked by our financial people to find a ?5 million saving in the | :48:21. | :48:26. | |
Freedom Pass and three months ago we create add a scheme involving the | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
pre`loaded smart card that would give people the best deal possible | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
at the time for the money wd could afford. Interestingly, the bus | :48:38. | :48:44. | |
companies, who are private sector, profit`centred, realised th`t that | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
scheme was going to hurt thdir revenue. Whereas we maintain | :48:49. | :48:55. | |
relations with the bus comp`nies at all times, they came to us `nd said, | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
well, this is going to hurt us. This is all about the bus companhes and | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
benefitting them, nothing to do with the parents in their many thousands | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
who have signed petitions who say it's unfair? We obviously lhsten. We | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
predicted that people would not like this scheme. If this isn't for `` is | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
for the sake of the bus companies, taxpayers' money is going to support | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
the bus companies. Is that acceptable? We obviously pahd | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
considerable amounts of mondy to the bus companies to provide thd Freedom | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
Pass. There's a deal there. There's a contract there. We don't pay the | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
full fares to the bus companies That's the point of the contract | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
that we have with them. We remunerate them at an agreed rate. | :49:41. | :49:44. | |
Aren't they rather holding xou to hostage. This is discretion`ry. No | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
other council offers anything as generous as this, even the secondary | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
position you have fallen back to. I'm just corious to know whx this is | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
being done for the benefit of the bus companies? No, it hasn't. We | :49:57. | :50:02. | |
have had the bus companies come to the table and we have, betwden us, | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
hammered out a scheme which doesn't protect their position. Thex will | :50:08. | :50:12. | |
lose revenue, but it will provide a better deal for the public. I still | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
get the same level of savings, so there's no U`turn there. Well, there | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
is, because there's a U`turn on provision for 16`18`year`olds. The | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
County Council had made it clear there would be provision for them to | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
school and college. That has gone. That is a U`turn. Not at all. What | :50:31. | :50:38. | |
we were able to provide for 16`plus students with the smart card scheme | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
was low access. It was ?100, but we were only able to load the smart | :50:44. | :50:50. | |
card with ?250 credit. You have even taken that away? We have reduced the | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
cost of the existing travel card. How much do they have to pax now? | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
?400, which gives them a benefit of ?380 per card and that is pretty | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
good value and don't forget, it s discretionary as well. We don't have | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
to provide it and we get no funding from the Government. Why do it at | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
all then? This is discretionary No other council offers somethhng as | :51:11. | :51:14. | |
generous as this. We are in cash`strapped times, so it seems as | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
though some sharp`elbowed pdople and I was assuming it was the p`rents, | :51:19. | :51:23. | |
but it turns out it's the bts companies, have persuaded you to do | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
something differently? Becatse we could. You can't now. The fhnances, | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
you have to savings hundreds of millions over the next few xears? | :51:31. | :51:36. | |
That's right. The Freedom P`ss was devised in 2007 when the financial | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
situation was very different. Obviously, people make commhtments | :51:43. | :51:46. | |
about their children's educ`tion, based on the assumption that the | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
Freedom Pass will be there for them during the period of their time at | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
secondary school. You pit ptll it at some point in the future? It would | :51:55. | :51:58. | |
be the last thing I would w`nt to do. Thank you very much for joining | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
us. A commitment there to continuing an | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
expensive discretionary service which councils are under prdssure to | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
cut back and keep council t`x low. Stephen, what do you think what is | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
going on, because you don't have this level of subsidy? We don't I | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
wish we could. I think all power to democracy and all power to the | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
parents who clearly have julped up and down. It was the bus colpanies. | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
I know. I think that the parents ran a very effective campaign and all | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
power to them. It's good for their children and I think they'vd got a | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
very good deal, so congratulations democracy. CeG Clark, given all of | :52:38. | :52:43. | |
this started with a campaign to bring in subsidised bus travel and | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
the one thing we have ended up with is not that, would you say the | :52:48. | :52:50. | |
Conservative`led Kent Countx Council have made a hash of this? As you | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
said in your report, this is the only council in the south`e`st and | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
the only council in the country apart from London, where for young | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
people, going to school and college, you can get a free transport. I m | :53:05. | :53:10. | |
asking you not about the orhginal idea, which has been running for | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
years, but the way they've handled changing it has been a complete | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
mess? They've listened to consultation. I think ` I h`d a very | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
good session with some of md constituents last Friday in a school | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
and they said this is a really important scheme and they v`lue it | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
and it gives testimony the chance to get to school. Why not come up with | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
the idea. They didn't listen. They didn't listen to parents. You heard | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
it in the report. The schemd hasn't chand yet. They are just making the | :53:37. | :53:39. | |
change in the weeks ahead. Taf listened. I think `` they'vd | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
listened. I think they've come up with a exclusion. Which doesn't | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
provide what they set out in the first place. It provides a great | :53:49. | :53:52. | |
deal for young people, for teenagers across Kent that isn't available | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
anywhere else. I think it's a tribute to the innovation that Kent | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
is capable of and the excellent service that on one of the lower | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
council taxes in country thdy manage to pri this service that is valued | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
by young people in my consthtuency. Why are pensioners more serve | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
deserving in this country of entirely free bus travel and | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
children could can't work and bring if their own wages and who have to | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
go to school every day are not, have we got it the wrong way arotnd in I | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
don't think it's more deserving I think historically now nor ` number | :54:28. | :54:29. | |
of years there's been an acceptance that pensioners have paid in for | :54:30. | :54:36. | |
many, many years and there hs across parties a strong view that free | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
services also help retain independence for the longer term. | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
The challenge in the whole `usterity programme and we know we ard coming | :54:45. | :54:47. | |
through it, but the reality is that we are still short of money out | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
there. I think it is going to be something that is going to be | :54:53. | :54:54. | |
debated at the general election I suspect that the parties ard going | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
to come forward with some dhfferent views. My own strong view is that I | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
do think younger people, people seeking work should, I think, get | :55:05. | :55:10. | |
some sort of support, perhaps that pensioners get and young people | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
don't. We'll bring a young person in, because we are joined bx a | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
17`year`old old to talk abott the voting age, but Solomon Curtis, you | :55:19. | :55:23. | |
live in Hastings and travel to Tunbridge Wells every day. Who pays | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
for it? Well, my family pay for it. I think just in terms of wh`t | :55:30. | :55:36. | |
Stephen and ceG `` Greg werd saying, it seems like bus companies have | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
been influential in that and in terms of older people, I thhnk young | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
people and elderly people h`ve the same needs. You think you should get | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
free transport to school or subsidised? I feel sympathetic for | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
local authorities because they've been imposed with this austdrity | :55:54. | :55:55. | |
programme and they've got to make cuts, but I think actually when you | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
see profit`making companies you have to look at them and say is there | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
some form of corporate responsibility? The ?13.5 mhllion | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
that Kent County Council ard paying, would it it just be easier to | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
completely subsidise and renationalise it? We'll comd on to | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
the real reason you're here, but thank you for that. Solomon Curtis | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
here to talk for votes for 16`17`year`olds. You are up to | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
Westminster to lobby MPs. Why should you get the vote? Well, there's this | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
saying, which I was brought up with, and it was no taxation without | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
representation. The fact is 16`year`olds are able to pax tax. | :56:39. | :56:44. | |
There's that simple fact and I think it's antidemocratic not to support | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
giving a 16`year`old a vote, but we have the most educated generation in | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
history. We have fixed`term elections now which means that some | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
people pay not vote until a day before their 23rd birthday hn a | :57:01. | :57:03. | |
general election. That's five really important years. You talk about | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
taxation. Five`year`olds wotld earn money, and some do performing, they | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
pay tax, so we should give them a vote? They don't pay tax as | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
individuals. That goes into a pot, which I believe if it is taxed isn't | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
paid by them, because five`xear`olds pay VAT. We are all charged tax at | :57:26. | :57:29. | |
the same level, whatever our age. Absolutely, but are we directly | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
taxed? 16`year`olds are dirdctly taxed. I think that's the m`in | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
thing. We'll see what these guys. Greg, we expect young peopld to | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
serve their country and thex can marry and pay tax, so why not vote? | :57:45. | :57:48. | |
18 has been the age. When it comes to tax, as you said, everyone pays | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
VAT and it doesn't carry an entitlement to vote. On the council | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
tax, 16 and 17`year`olds ard excluded from paying it. I think | :57:59. | :58:02. | |
that argument about paying tax doesn't work. I think there are | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
strong arguments for this. H spend a lot of time talking to sixth formers | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
and I agree, there is a high degree of interest in political issues I'm | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
sure Stephen and I find in our post bag that a long of young people are | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
engaged with big campaigns, so I don't think the taxation issue is | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
the best course. Why doesn't David Cameron agree? You seem sympathetic, | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
but when Downing Street spoke about it last year, they said that the | :58:30. | :58:32. | |
Government has to plans to change the law. What does that say about | :58:33. | :58:35. | |
the Government's attitude to young people? It shows that the argument | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
that Solomon is making, there are a number of people making it. It's a | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
live debate and a lot of people `` You could be persuaded? Yeah. I can | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
understand the arguments for it For example, political parties, we all | :58:49. | :58:53. | |
want to have young members, and members of parties who are 06 are | :58:54. | :58:58. | |
allowed to vote in the affahrs of political parties, so that hs | :58:59. | :59:03. | |
accepted by them. I think a particular example you talkdd about | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
16`19`year`olds with the Kent Freedom Pass, but the cuts to that | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
would not have been that silple if 16`year`olds had the vote. Let me | :59:11. | :59:20. | |
quote Polly Toynbee. But thhs is what she says, "Don't vote `nd you | :59:21. | :59:25. | |
don't count. Democracy forgdts and you know one cares what you think | :59:26. | :59:29. | |
and the Government will spend lesson you and your ilk." I think `bout the | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
Kent Freedom Pass, if that were true, they don't have the vote, but | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
the County Council introducdd, without any requirement to do so, a | :59:40. | :59:44. | |
free travel card costing ?1.5 million, because it's `` ?13.5 | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
million, because it's the rhght thing to do. The party that I'm a | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
member of obviously wants to think about the next general election | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
Stephen, do you support votds for 16`17`year`olds? I do. It's not a | :00:01. | :00:04. | |
huge priority of mine and I'll give you an example why. I was speaking | :00:05. | :00:08. | |
to a group of young people who came to my constituency last week. | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
They're doing some interview for the college. One of the `` one of them | :00:13. | :00:18. | |
med made a strong `` of thel made a strong point, at this age wd are | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
studying politics and we ard at college and it's actually a live | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
issue. We are quite interested. What we found with a lot of our older | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
brothers and sisters, who are 2 and 22 they have fallen into thd Russell | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
Brand nonsense of there's no point if voting because they're all | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
thieves, so an argument for younger people is that you catch thdm. Are | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
you persuaded? We didn't get a question from Greg, but we got, "I | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
can see the arguments." Hopdfully he will come on Wednesday and we can | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
lobby him. Thank you very mtch indeed for coming in. Nice to meet | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
you. Now for a round`up of the other events you might have missed this | :01:00. | :01:10. | |
week. Over to James Fitzger`ld. The weather is not normal. The | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
conditions aren't normal and life isn't normal. Another week of wild | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
weather. Government released ?1 0 million of emergency money, but | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
there's still no`one scheme planned for the South East. The Envhronment | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
Agency says the flood barridr can't protect Tunbridge. Dover wants to | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
revive the western docks, creating hundreds of jobs. The MP welcomed | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
the news, but is desperate for more details. It's important to `nswer | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
how they'll get the money and what their plan is. Gatwick Airport is | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
extending the reach of a nohse compensation scheme, which gives out | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
thousands to homeowners needing to installment loft instalation. Helen | :01:54. | :02:00. | |
Grant, Maidstone MP says shd will be sounding a triumphant fanfare a | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
century after World War One. Drn said last year that commemoration of | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
conflict could be a celebration of sorts. Clear clear The flooding goes | :02:08. | :02:19. | |
on. Nigel Farage says we should divert foreign aid. Do you `gree? | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
David Cameron has said that ?13 million is going to go to this, so | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
the action has been taken. No, I don't. It's classic Farage tsing a | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
subject that affects a lot of people for political gain. I think it's | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
wrong and he's right. The Government is giving money which is important. | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
Thank you. We will have to leave it there. Thank you very much hndeed | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
for watching. Natalie is back next week with more. | :02:44. | :02:44. | |
Londoners who otherwise may not have a voice. Both of you, thank you so | :02:45. | :02:55. | |
much. Andrew, it is back to you Can David Cameron get a grip on the | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
floods? Can UKIP push the Conservatives into third place in | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
the Wythenshawe by-election on Thursday? Is the speaker in the | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
House of Commons in danger of overheating? All questions over the | :03:08. | :03:15. | |
weekend. Let's look at the politics of the flooding. Let me show you a | :03:16. | :03:22. | |
clip from Eric Pickles, the Communities Secretary, earlier on | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
the BBC this morning. We perhaps relied too much on the Environment | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
Agency's advice. I apologise. I apologise unreservedly and I am | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
really sorry we took the advice of what we thought we were doing was | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
the best. The Environment Agency is being hung out to dry by the | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
Government and the Government has taken over the running of the | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
environmental mess in the Somerset Levels. It is turning into a serious | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
crisis by the Government and even more so for the people who are | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
dealing with the flooding. There is no doubt that what has been revealed | :04:03. | :04:09. | |
is it is not just about what the Government did or did not do six | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
months ago. What is being exposed is an entire culture within the | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
Environment Agency, fuelled often by European directives about dredging | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
and all manner of other things, a culture grew up in which plants were | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
put ahead of people if you like All of that is collapsing in very | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
difficult circumstances by the Government and it is difficult for | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
them to manage. Chris Smith would save the Environment Agency is | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
acting under a law set by this Government and previous governments | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
and the first priority is the protection of life, second property | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
and third agricultural land and he is saying we are working within that | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
framework. It is an edifying spectacle, they are setting up Lord | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
Smith to be the fall guy. His term of office comes at the end of the | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
summer and they will find something new. But the point Lord Smith is | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
making is that dredging is important and it was a mistake not to dredge, | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
but it is a bigger picture than that. I am no expert, but you need a | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
whole skill solution that is looking not just bad dredging, but at the | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
whole catchment area looking at the production of maize. It is harvested | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
in autumn and then the water runs off the topsoil. You see the | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
pictures of the flooding, it is all topsoil flooding through those | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
towns. What you have got to have in the uplands is some land that can | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
absorb that water and there are really big questions about the way | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
we carry out farming. Chris Smith was meant to appear on the Andrew | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
Marr show this morning, but pulled back at the last minute. There must | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
be doubts as to whether he can survive to the summer. Where is the | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
chief executive of the Environment Agency? I agree with Nick that Chris | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
Smith has been setup in this situation. David Cameron went to the | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
Somerset Levels on Friday for about half an hour, in and out, with no | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
angry people shouting at him. You to a farm. It is agreed he has had good | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
crisis. But we are seen as being a London media class who does not | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
understand the countryside. You can imagine David Cameron in a pair of | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
wellies. If this was happening in Guildford, it would not have dragged | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
on for so long. Looe it is interesting how they are saying the | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
Environment Agency has put words in front of everything else. The | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
great-great-grandson of Queen Victoria thinks people should be | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
sacked at the whim. He is talking about how the Environment Agency | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
spent ?31 million on a bird sanctuary. It turns out the bird | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
sanctuary was an attempt to put up a flood defence system for a village | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
which has worked. That village has been saved. They compensated some | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
farmers for the farmland they were not going to be able to farm and put | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
a flood defence system further back to protect this village and then | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
they built a bird sanctuary. It was not ?31 million to create a bird | :07:27. | :07:28. | |
sanctuary, it was to save a village and it worked. But in 2008 the | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
Environment Agency was talking about dynamiting every pumping agency | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
There was a metropolitan mindset on the part of that agency. If it does | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
what Owen Paterson, who is now off in an eye operation, suggested a | :07:46. | :07:51. | |
plan to fix this, they will find a lot of what they want or need to do | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
will be in contravention of European directives. The Wythenshawe | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
by-election. There is no question Labour is going to win, probably | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
incredibly convincingly, one poll showing 60% plus of the vote. It | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
would be surprising if Labour was in any threat up there. The issue is, | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
does UKIP beat the Tories and if so, by how much? The latest poll was | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
showing it in second place as nip and tuck, but the feeling I have is | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
UKIP will do better. And they have got a great local candidate. The | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
Tories have not parachuted somebody in and they have got a local man in | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
and that will help them. We have all been waiting to see if the Tories | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
lose their head, but they might go chicken earlier than that. Will UKIP | :08:45. | :08:53. | |
come second? It looks like that A poll this week showed that Labour is | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
way ahead and UKIP possibly second. But it is an important by-election | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
for UKIP. If they do well in the European elections, they should | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
still be on a roll. They did really well in by-elections last year. If | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
they do not do well, is it because they are not on payroll? Or in | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
Manchester they have a fantastic leader of the council? Will UKIP | :09:17. | :09:23. | |
come a good second? I think they will and if they do not, it might | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
suggest Nigel Farage is losing its slightly. One thing to look out for | :09:28. | :09:34. | |
is how little Labour are attacking UKIP. Their election strategy relies | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
a lot on UKIP taking Tory votes But it could also take Labour votes | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
Particularly in the north and we shall see. The results will be out | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
on Thursday night. The Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bird , | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
his interventions have become more frequent and something was strange. | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
Have a look. I am grateful to the honourable gentleman. Order, the | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
Government Chief Whip has absolutely no business whatsoever shouting from | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
a sedentary position. Order, the honourable gentleman will remain in | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
the chamber. If we could tackle this problem. I say to the honourable | :10:21. | :10:28. | |
member for Bridgwater, be quiet if you cannot be quiet, get out, it is | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
rude, stupid and pompous and it needs to stop. Michael Gove. Order. | :10:33. | :10:51. | |
You really... Order. You are a very over excitable individual. You need | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
to write out 1000 times, I will behave myself at Prime Minister 's | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
questions. He was talking to the Education Secretary and it is not | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
1000 lines, it is 100 lines, at least it was in my day. Is he | :11:08. | :11:16. | |
beginning to make a fool of himself? There was only one over excitable | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
person there and that was the speaker and he is losing the | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
confidence of the Conservative MPs, but he never had that in the first | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
place. But he is an incredibly reforming speaker. He has this | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
strange idea that Parliament should hold the Government to account. It | :11:33. | :11:39. | |
will never catch on. It means very frequently there are urgent | :11:40. | :11:44. | |
questions. The other day he called a backbench amendment on the | :11:45. | :11:47. | |
deportation of foreign criminals. He could have found a way not to call | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
that. He is a real reformer and the executive do not like that. That is | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
true and he has allowed Parliament to flourish which has given us room | :11:58. | :12:05. | |
to breathe at a time of a coalition Government when Parliament has more | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
power. That is all that enough to overcome these increasingly mannered | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
and some of them may be preplanned interventions? The last one was last | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
week, and last week the speaker had a rather stressful week with the | :12:23. | :12:30. | |
tabloids. Something is clearly up. I think it is a real shame. I think | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
many of us when he was elected did not think he would make a great | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
speaker and there are people like Douglas Carswell and Tory rebels who | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
have said he is a fantastic speaker. He has given the Commons room to | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
breathe and he has called on ministers to be held to account when | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
they do not want to be. What do you think? He is seen as anti-government | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
and he is pro-backbencher and that is what people do not like. People | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
like Douglas Carswell are actually very strongly in support of him We | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
carry the interventions every week on Prime Minister 's questions and | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
we see them every week and they are getting a bit more eccentric. If I | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
was having to keep that under control, I would be driven slowly | :13:22. | :13:28. | |
mad. But his job is easier than mine. But if you look at his | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
deputy, Eleanor Laing, she is very robust, but she is calm. Chap who | :13:33. | :13:40. | |
does the budget is excellent. We are on throughout the week at midday on | :13:41. | :13:49. | |
BBC Two. We will be back next Sunday at 11. If it is Sunday, it is the | :13:50. | :13:51. | |
Sunday Politics. | :13:52. | :13:59. |