Browse content similar to 21/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning from Manchester, where the Labour Party are gathering | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
for their annual conference as British politics adjusts to what | :00:13. | :00:14. | |
the rest of the UK. in Scotland might mean for | :00:15. | :00:53. | |
Scotland's decision to vote 'no means more powers heading north | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
But what about Home Rule for England? | :00:59. | :01:06. | |
Independence for Scotland has been his life's work. Alex Salmond tells | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
us why he is stepping down after losing Thursday's vote. And we've | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
Also coming up: people who want to be | :01:17. | :01:27. | |
Also coming up: As these gods are promised lore of a | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
say over their lives, 400 mhles of those, we ask | :01:32. | :01:32. | |
But what is the next devolution step for the capital? With me, the best | :01:33. | :01:47. | |
and brightest political panel in the business, at least that is what they | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
pay me to say every week. Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and, this week, we have | :01:52. | :01:54. | |
done some devolution ourselves to other areas, and we have Sam Coates | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
from the times. The union survived, but only at the cost of more powers | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
for the Scottish parliament and enshrining the formula that gives | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
Scotland a privileged position when it comes to public spending, which | :02:09. | :02:13. | |
has MPs on both sides of the Commons of in arms. The Scottish question | :02:14. | :02:20. | |
has been answered for now. Suddenly, the English question takes centre | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
stage, doesn't it? Absolutely. It has a grubby feel, when that vow was | :02:27. | :02:33. | |
put to the Scottish people, that they hoped would swing the vote | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
there was nothing about English only votes. It was unconditional? The | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
Tory proposal did talk very core justly about looking at the | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
proposals by a former clerk of the House of Commons that looked at this | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
issue. That was very cautious. - cautiously. These proposals will not | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
get through Westminster unless David Cameron addresses the English-only | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
issue. You look at people like Chris Grayling in the Sunday Telegraph. | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
Alistair Darling on the Andrew Marr Show said you could not have a link | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
between what you are giving Holyrood and English-only MPs. Back on says, | :03:10. | :03:11. | |
is welshing on the deal. -- comic he They were furious that he gave away | :03:12. | :03:27. | |
these tax powers and inscribed the Barnett formula. They said they | :03:28. | :03:35. | |
weren't going to vote for it. It is a shameless piece of opportunism. | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
Now they can say that Labour are the ones that don't trust you and don't | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
want to give you more powers. He knows it is going to be a tight | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
timetable. The idea of getting a draft of this out by Burns Night, | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
most people would say, given they had six years to set up Scottish | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
parliament, the idea we will solve these huge constitutional questions | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
in four months is absurd. But they don't care about the constitutional | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
questions, the one they care about is English votes? There is a simple | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
reason they won that. If you look at the MPs in England alone, the Tories | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
have a majority of 59, an overwhelming bias, and if you strip | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
out Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland, so this has become a | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
partisan issue. The question is whether David Cameron can follow | :04:24. | :04:25. | |
through on the promise. He said he would link the two Scottish powers, | :04:26. | :04:32. | |
but it's not clear you will get either before the general election. | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
It's not but the purpose is to cause Labour Party discomfort, and it is. | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
You can see with date -- Ed Miliband this morning, they find it very hard | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
to answer the question, why shouldn't there be English votes for | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
English laws? Ed Miliband this morning was saying how London MPs | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
get to vote on London transport and English MPs don't outside of London | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
and it is confusing, but Labour is in a difficult position. They were | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
before the Prime Minister made his announcement. The yes side triumphed | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
in Glasgow, the largest city in Scotland, a Labour heartland, and | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
the Prime Minister is saying that if Labour don't agree to this by the | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
time of the general election, he is handing a gift to the SNP, that that | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
would be the party that the natural Labour voters would vote for to see | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
off the plan. It's not just Tory backbenchers. There are Labour | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
backbenchers saying there should be in which bodes for English laws | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
Even people in the Shadow Cabinet think it is right. The cases | :05:32. | :05:38. | |
unarguable. If you say her chewing a partisan way, you can't sell it to | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
the country. Ed Miliband is on course to have a majority of about | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
20, and you take the 40 English MPs, and he hasn't got it. This is a | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
coalition government where the Conservatives haven't got really to | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
be in charge, they have put in sweeping laws. Labour should | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
probably take the bullet on this one. Let's leave it for the moment. | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
But don't go away. As they struggle to keep the United Kingdom in one | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
piece, David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg promised to keep | :06:11. | :06:13. | |
something called the Barnett Formula. | :06:14. | :06:15. | |
It wasn't invented in Barnet, but by man called Joel Barnett. | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
And it's how the UK government decides how much | :06:19. | :06:20. | |
public money to spend in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. | :06:21. | :06:23. | |
It's controversial, because it's led to public spending | :06:24. | :06:25. | |
being typically 20% higher in Scotland than in England. | :06:26. | :06:27. | |
Well, some English MPs aren't happy about that. | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
I'm joined now by the Tory MP Dominic Raab. | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
Welcome to the Sunday Politics. How can the Prime Minister scrap the | :06:36. | :06:43. | |
Barnett Formula when he has just about to keep it on the front page | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
of a major Scottish newspaper? If we are going to see financial | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
devolution to Scotland, more powers of tax and spend, it's impossible | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
not to look at the impact on the wider union, and there have been | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
promises made to the Scottish and we should do our best to deliver them, | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
but there have been promises made to the English, Welsh and Northern | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
Irish. If you look at the Barnett Formula which allocates revenue | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
across the UK, it is massively prejudicial to those other parts. We | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
have double the number of ambulance staff and nurses compared to | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
England. The regional breakdown is more stark with double the amount | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
spent on social housing in Scotland than in Yorkshire and the North West | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
and the Midlands. The Welsh do very poorly on social services for the | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
elderly. What are we saying? That they need our children, patients and | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
the elderly are worth less than the Scots? That's not the way to have a | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
sustainable solution. I understand the distribution impact of the | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
Barnett Formula, but Westminster politicians are already held in | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
contempt by a lot of people and to rat on such a public pledge would | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
confirm their worst fears. Your leader would have secured the union | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
on a false prospectus. First of all, it's clear from the Ashcroft | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
poll that the offer made in the Scottish newspaper had zero effect | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
and if anything was counter-productive to the overall | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
result because two thirds of swing voters in the last few days voted | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
for independence. But we can't keep proceeding without looking at the | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
promises made to the English. We said in the referendum that we would | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
have English laws -- English votes on English issues. The Liberal | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
Democrats, in their manifesto, pledged to scrap the Barnett | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
Formula. We have to reconcile all of the promises to all parts of the UK, | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
and Alex Salmond talks about a Westminster stitch up, but what he's | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
trying to do is, with gross double standards, is in French stitch up in | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
rapid time, which would be grossly unfair to the rest of the rest of UK | :08:45. | :08:53. | |
-- is contrive stitch up. What is unfair about the current spending | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
formula? The extra money Scotland gets from Barnet, is covered by the | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
oil revenues it sends to London Scotland is only getting back on | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
spending what it pays in tax. There is no analysis out there that | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
suggests it is the same amount. Having voted to stay in the UK. Let | :09:11. | :09:18. | |
me give you the figures. Last year revenues were 4.5 billion, and the | :09:19. | :09:24. | |
Barnett Formula was worth 4.5 billion to Scotland. It is awash. A | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
huge amount of British taxpayer investment has gone into extracting | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
North Sea oil, and if we move to a more federal system, we would need | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
to look at things like the allocation of resources, but the | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
Barnett Formula has been lambasted as a national embarrassment and | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
grossly unfair by its Labour Party architect, Lord Barnett. So what we | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
need is to change this mechanism so it is based on need. The irony is, | :09:51. | :09:55. | |
when the Scots allocate Avenue to the -- revenue to their local | :09:56. | :09:58. | |
authorities, it's done on a needs basis, and what is good for Scotland | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
must be good for the rest of Britain. One final question. The | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
Prime Minister is now making his promise of more home rule for | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
Scotland conditional on English votes for English laws. Why didn't | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
he spell out the condition when he made his bow to the Scottish people? | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
Why has this condition been tacked on by the Prime Minister? In the | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
heat of the referendum debate lots of things were said, but the truth | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
is that Parliament must also look at this and make its views known, and | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
English MPs as well. You will find that conservative as well as a lot | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
of Labour MPs would say, we cannot just rush through a deal that is | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
unsustainable. It has to be good for all parts of Britain. Yes, we should | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
deliver on our promises for more devolution to Scotland, but let s | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
deliver on promises to be English, and Northern Irish. Why are they | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
locked out of the debate? Let's leave it there. Thank you for | :10:55. | :10:55. | |
joining us. The man responsible | :10:56. | :10:57. | |
for taking Scottish nationalism from the political fringes to within | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
touching distance of victory, Alex Salmond, has a flair for dramatic | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
announcements, and he gave us another on Friday | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
when he revealed he's to stand Friends and foes have paid tribute | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
to his extraordinary career. In a moment I'll be speaking to | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
Alex Salmond, but first here's Adam Fleming with | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
the story of the vote that broke The BBC's HQ on the Clyde, the whole | :11:15. | :11:37. | |
place converted into a studio for Scotland's big night. You know what | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
you need for big events, big screens, and there are loads of them | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
here. That one is three stories high, and this is the one Jeremy | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
Vine uses for his graphics. The other thing that is massive is the | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
turnout in the referendum, it is enormous. It was around 85% of the | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
electorate, that is 4 million ballot papers. First to declare | :11:58. | :12:08. | |
Clackmannanshire. No, 19,000. 1 ,000 and 36. The first Noel of the night, | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
and there were plenty more. -- the first no vote. The better together | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
campaigners were over the moon, like Jim Murphy, who had campaigned in | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
100 different towns. I don't want to sound schmaltzy, but it makes you | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
think more of Scotland. It makes you small tree. Yes, 194,779. Around | :12:29. | :12:38. | |
five a.m., the Yes campaign applauded as they won Scotland's | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
biggest city, Glasgow. Dundee went their way as well, but just for | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
areas out of 32 opted for independence. How many copies have | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
you had? This is my second cup of tea on the morning -- how many | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
copies. He was enjoying the refreshments on offer, but the yes | :12:56. | :12:59. | |
campaigners were not in a happy place. We are in the bowels of one | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
of the parts of the British establishment that, I've got to say, | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
has probably done its job in this referendum, because I think the BBC | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
has been critical in shoring up the establishment and have supported the | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
no campaign as best as they could. But there was no arguing with the | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
numbers, and by sunrise, the BBC called it. Scotland has voted no in | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
this referendum on independence The result, in Fife, has taken the no | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
campaign over the line and the official result of this referendum | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
is a no. There we go, on a screen three stories high, Scotland has | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
said no to independence. As soon as the newsprint was driving north of | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
the border, the focus shifted south as the Prime Minister pledged more | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
devolution for Scotland but only if it happened everywhere else as well. | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
Just as Scotland will vote separately in the Scottish | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
Parliament on their issues of tax, spending on welfare, so to England, | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
as well as Wales and Northern Ireland, should be able to vote on | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
these issues, and all this must take place in tandem with and at the same | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
pace as the settlement for Scotland. It began to dawn on us all that we | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
might end up doing this again. See you for an English referendum soon? | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
Northern Ireland. There could be another one in Scotland. But not | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
next weekend? Give me a break. There was no break for Nick, because Alex | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
Salmond came up with one last twist, his resignation was as leader, my | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
time is nearly over. But the Scotland, the campaign continues, | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
and the dream shall never die. So, the referendum settled, the | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
Constitution in flux, and a leader gone. All in a night work. | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
Alex Salmond is to stand down as First Minister of Scotland. He shows | :15:03. | :15:08. | |
no signs of going quietly. Last night, I spoke to the SNP leader in | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
Aberdeen and began by asking him if it was always his intention to | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
resign if he lost the referendum. I certainly have thought about it | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
Andrew. But for most of the referendum campaign I thought we | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
were going to win. So, I was... Yeah, maybe a few months back I | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
considered it. But I only finally made up my mind on Friday lunch | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
time. Did you agonise over the decision to stand down? I'm not | :15:38. | :15:46. | |
really an agonising person. When you get beaten in a referendum, you have | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
to consider standing down as a real possibility. Taking responsibility | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
and politics has gone out of fashion but there is an aspect, if you need | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
a campaign, and I was the leader of the Yes Campaign, and you don't win, | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
you have to contemplate if you are the best person to lead future | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
political campaigns. In my judgement, it was time for the SNP | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
and the broader yes movement, the National movement of Scotland, they | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
would benefit from new leadership. In your heart of hearts, through the | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
campaign, as referendum on day approached, you did think you were | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
going to win? Yes, I did. I thought for most of the last month of the | :16:30. | :16:36. | |
campaign, we were in with a real chance. In the last week I thought | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
we had pulled ahead. I thought the decisive aspect wasn't so much the | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
fear mongering, the scaremongering, the kitchen sink being thrown at | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
Scotland by orchestration from Downing Street, I thought the real | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
thing was the pledge, the vow, the offer of something else. A lot of | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
people that had been moving across to independence saw within that a | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
reason to say, well, we can get something anyway without the | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
perceived risks that were being festooned upon them. You were only | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
five points away from your dream. You won Scotland's largest city | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
There is now the prospect of more power. Why not stay and be an | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
enhanced First Minister? Well, it is a good phrase. I'm not going away, | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
though. I'm still going to be part of the political process. In | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
Scotland, if people in Aberdeenshire wish to keep electing me, that is | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
what I will do. But I don't have to be First Minister of Scotland, | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
leader of the Yes Campaign, to see that achieved. The SNP is a strong | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
and powerful leadership team. There are a number of people that would do | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
a fantastic job as leader of the party and First Minister. I've been | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
leader of the party for the last 24 years, I think it is time to give | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
somebody else a shot. There are many able-bodied people that will do that | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
well. -- many able people that will do that well. I'm still part of the | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
national movement, arguing to take this forward. I think you are right, | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
the question, one of the irony is developing so quickly after the | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
referendum, it might be those that lost on Thursday end up as the | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
political winners and those that won end up as the losers. When we met | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
just for the vote, a couple of days before the vote, you said to me that | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
there was very little you would change about the campaign strategy. | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
Is that still your view? Yes. There are one or two things, like any | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
campaign, there is no such thing as a pitcher campaign. I would refer | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
not to dwell on such things. I will leave of my book, which will be | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
called 100 Days, coming out before Christmas. Once you read that, I | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
will probably reveal the things I would have changed. Basically, | :19:02. | :19:05. | |
broadly, this was an extraordinary campaign. Not just a political | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
campaign, but a campaign involving the grassroots of Scotland in an | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
energising, empowering way, the like of which in on of us have witnessed. | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
It was an extraordinary phenomenon of grassroots campaigning, which | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
carried the Yes Campaign so far almost to victory. If Rupert Murdoch | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
put his Scottish Sun behind you would have that made the difference? | :19:31. | :19:39. | |
If ifs and ands were pots and pans... Why did he not? I would not | :19:40. | :19:46. | |
say that, you have form with him that I do not have. I'm not sure | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
about that. I was very encouraged. The coverage, not in the other | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
papers, The Times, which was extremely hostile to Scottish | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
independence, but the coverage in the Scottish Sun was fair, balanced | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
and we certainly got a very fair kick of the ball. In newspapers I | :20:06. | :20:15. | |
would settle for no editorial line and just balanced coverage. We | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
certainly got that from the Scottish Sun and that was an encouragement. I | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
think you saw from his tweets, certainly in his heart he would have | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
liked to have seen a move forward in Scotland and I like that. He said if | :20:29. | :20:39. | |
you lost, that was it, referendum wise, for a generation, which he | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
defined as about 20 years. Is that still your view? Yes, it is. It has | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
always been my view. It's a personal view. There are always things that | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
can change in politics. If the UK moved out of the European Union for | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
example, that would be the sort of circumstance. Some people would | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
argue with Westminster parties, and I'm actually not surprised that they | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
are reneging on commitments, I am just surprised by the speed they are | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
doing it. They seem to be totally shameless in these matters. You | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
don't think they will meet the vow? You don't think there will keep to | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
their vow? They are not, for that essential reason you saw developing | :21:21. | :21:23. | |
on Friday. The Prime Minister wants to link change in Scotland to change | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
in England. He wants to do that because he has difficulty in | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
carrying his backbenchers on this and they are under pressure from | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
UKIP. The Labour leadership are frightened of any changes in England | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
which leave them without a majority in the House of Commons on English | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
matters. I would not call it an irresistible force and immovable | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
object, one is resistible and one is movable. They are at loggerheads. | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
The vow, I think, was something cooked up in desperation for the | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
last few days of the campaign. I think everybody in Scotland now | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
engines that. -- recognises that. It was the people that were persuaded | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
to vote no that word tricked, effectively. They are the ones that | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
are really angry. Ed Miliband and David Cameron, if they are watching | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
this, I would be more worried about the anger of the no voters than the | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
opinion of the Yes Vote on that matter. If independence is on the | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
back burner for now, what would you advise your successor's strategy for | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
the SNP to be? I would advise him or her not to listen to advice from | :22:39. | :22:45. | |
their predecessor. A new leader brings forward a new strategy. I | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
think this is, for the SNP, a very favourable political time. There | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
have been 5000 new members joined since Thursday. That is about a 25% | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
increase in the party membership in the space of a few days. More than | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
that, I think this is an opportunity for the SNP. But my goal is the | :23:06. | :23:16. | |
opportunity for Scotland. I would repeat I am not retiring from | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
politics. I'm standing down as First Minister of Scotland. On Friday | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
coming back to the north-east of Scotland, I passed through Dundee, | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
which voted yes by a stud -- substantial margin. There was a line | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
of a song I couldn't get out of my head, and old Jacobite song, | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
rewritten by Robert Burns, the last line is, so, tremble falls wakes, in | :23:42. | :23:49. | |
the midst of your glee, you've not seen the last of my bonnets and me. | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
So you are staying a member of the Scottish Parliament, shall we see | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
you again in the House of Commons? What does the future hold for you? | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
Membership of Scottish Parliament is dependent on the good folk of | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
Aberdeenshire east. If they choose to elect me, I will be delighted to | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
serve. I've always loved being a constituency member of Parliament, I | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
have known some front line politicians that regarded that as a | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
chore. I'm not saying they didn t do it properly, I am sure they did But | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
I love it. You get distilled wisdom from being a constituency member of | :24:32. | :24:33. | |
Parliament that helps you keep your feet on the ground and have a good | :24:34. | :24:36. | |
observation as to what matters to people. I have no difficulty with | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
being a constituent member of Parliament. Can you promise me it | :24:41. | :24:51. | |
will never be Lord Salmond? Yes Thanks for joining us. Great | :24:52. | :25:01. | |
pleasure, thank you. Now, the independence referendum is over the | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
next big electoral test is a general election. It is just over seven | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
months away. In a moment I will be talking to Chuka Umunna, but what | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
are the political views of the men and women fighting to win seats for | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
the Labour Party? The Sunday Politics has commissioned an | :25:21. | :25:22. | |
exclusive survey of the Parliamentary candidates. | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
Six out of seven Labour candidates say that the level of public | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
spending during their last period of office was about right. 40% of them | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
want a Labour government to raise taxes to reduce the budget deficit. | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
18% favour cutting spending. On immigration, just 15% think that the | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
number coming to Britain is too high. Only 7% say we generous to | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
immigrants. Three in ten candidates believe the party relationship with | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
trade unions is not close enough. Not that we spoke to think it is too | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
close. Or than half of the candidates say want to scrap the | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
nuclear deterrent, Trident. Four in five want to nationalise the | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
railways. If they are after a change of leader, Yvette Cooper was their | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
preferred choice. Chuka Umunna came in fourth. And he joins me now for | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
the Sunday interview. Why is Labour choosing so many | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
left-wing candidates? I don't think I accept the characterisation of | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
candidates being left wing. I don't think your viewers see politics in | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
terms of what is left and right I think they see it in terms of what | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
is right and wrong. Obviously, many of the things we have been talking | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
about, how we ensure that the next generation can do better than the | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
last, how we raise the wages of your viewers, who are currently working | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
very hard but not making a wage they can live off, that is what they are | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
talking about and that is what the public will judge them on. But they | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
want to raise taxes, they don't want to cut public spending, they want to | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
re-nationalise the railways, they don't think there is too much | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
immigration, they want to scrap Trident. These are all positions | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
clearly to the left of current party policy. But that is your | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
characterisation. If you look at our policy to increase the top rate of | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
tax to 50% for people earning over ?150,000, that is a central | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
position. It is something that enjoys the support of the majority | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
of the public. Trident? If you talk to the British public about | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
immigration, yes, there are concerns about the numbers coming in and out, | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
yes people want to see integration, yes, people want to see people | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
putting a contribution before they take out, the people recognise, if | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
you look at our multicultural nation, we have derived a lot of | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
benefits from immigration. I don't think your characterisation of those | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
positions, that is your view... It's not, it is their view. They are | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
saying... You describe it... You described those positions as left | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
wing positions. I am saying to you that I actually think a lot of those | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
positions are centrist positions that would enjoy the support of the | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
majority of your viewers. I don t think your viewers think the idea of | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
the broadest shoulders bearing the heaviest burden in forms of tax are | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
going to see it as a way out, radical principle. They want to | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
scrap Trident, not party policy It isn't. | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
I think that 73... Well, we will have 400 Parliamentary candidates at | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
the time of the next general election, not including current MPs. | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
This is 73 out of over 400 of them. I think we also need to treat the | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
survey with a bit of caution. They are not representative? You are | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
basically quoting the results of a small percentage of our | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
Parliamentary candidates. It's pretty safe to say when you look at | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
their views, they might be right or wrong, that's not my point, it's | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
fairly safe to say that new Labour is dead? Again, I don't think people | :29:05. | :29:11. | |
see things in terms of gold -- old or new Labour. We are standing at a | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
Labour Party. We are a great country, but we have big challenges. | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
We want to make sure that people can achieve their dreams and aspirations | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
in this country. Too many people are not in that position. Too many | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
people worry about the prospects of their children. Too many people do | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
not earn a wage they can live off. Too many people are worried about | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
the change. We have to make sure we are giving people a stake in the | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
future. That is a Labour thing, you want to call it old or new come I | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
don't care. It's a choice between Labour and the Conservatives in | :29:43. | :29:52. | |
terms of who runs the next government. That one of your | :29:53. | :29:54. | |
candidate we spoke to things that the party's relationship with the | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
unions is to close. 30% of them think it should be closer. You have | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
spoken to 73 out of 400 candidates. Why should the others be any | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
different? It's a fairly representative Sample. Many people | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
working on this set are the member of the union, the National union of | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
journalists. People that came here to this Conference would have been | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
brought here by trade union members. Do you think the relationship should | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
be closer? I think it is where it should be. It should not be closer? | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
I think that trade unions help create wealth in our country. If you | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
look at some other success stories we are in the north-west, GM | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
Vauxhall is there because you have trade unions working in partnership | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
with government and local employees to make sure we kept producing cars. | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
I'm not asking if unions are good or bad, I'm asking if Labour should be | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
closer. You are presupposing, by the tone of your question, that our | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
relationship is a problem. Let's turn to the English question. Why do | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
you need a constitutional conversation where you have to | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
discuss whether English people voting on English matters is | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
unfair? We want to give the regions and cities in England more voice, | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
but let's get it into perspective, we have had a situation where the | :31:11. | :31:18. | |
Scottish people, as desired buying rich people, have to remain part of | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
the UK -- by English people. What is the answer to the question? I don't | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
want to get to a situation where people have voted for solidarity | :31:29. | :31:30. | |
where you have a prime ministers talking about dividing up the UK | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
Parliament. Let me put this point you. Most Scottish voters think it | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
is unfair that Scottish MPs get to vote on English matters. That comes | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
out in Scottish polls. Why don't you see it as unfair? If the Scots see | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
it as unfair, why don't you? This is an age-old conundrum that has been | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
around for 100 years and it's not so simple. You're talking about making | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
a fundamental change to the British constitution on a whim. It's not | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
just an issue, in respect of Scottish MPs. As a London MP, I can | :32:02. | :32:08. | |
vote on matters relating to the transport of England and transport | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
is a devolved matter in London. In Wales, there are a number of | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
competencies that Welsh MPs can vote on and they've been devolved to | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
them. So with all of these different votes, you will exclude different | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
MPs? I think the solution is not necessarily to obsess about what is | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
happening between MPs in Westminster. That turns people | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
politics. We need to devolve more. I think we should be giving the cities | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
and regions of England more autonomy in the way that we are doing in | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
Scotland, but I've got to say, Andrew, it's dishonourable and in | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
bad faith for the Prime Minister to now seek to link what he agreed | :32:44. | :32:48. | |
before the referendum to this issue of English votes for English MPs. | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
That is totally dishonourable and in bad faith. You have promised to | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
devolve more tax powers to Scotland. What would they be? This is being | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
decided at the moment. I cannot give you the exact detail of what the tax | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
powers would be. Could you give us a rough idea? There is a White Paper | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
being produced before November and there will be draft legislation put | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
forward in January. Your leader has vowed that this will happen. And you | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
haven't got a policy? You can't tell us what the tax powers will be? I | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
can't tell you on this programme right now. But we have accepted the | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
principle on further devolution on tax, spending on welfare and we will | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
have further details in due course. Your leader promised to maintain the | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
Barnett Formula for the foreseeable future. Why is that fair when it | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
enshrines more per capita spending for Scotland than it does for Wales, | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
which is poorer, and more than many of the poorer regions in England | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
get? Why is that fair? We have said that in terms of looking at go - | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
local government spending playing out in this Parliament, we have | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
looked at what the government has done which is having already | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
deprived communities having money taken away from them and wealthier | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
communities are getting more. We accept that the Barnett Formula has | :34:03. | :34:09. | |
worked well. How has it works well? There is a cross parliamentary | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
consensus as they don't know what to do about it. Why has it works well, | :34:13. | :34:17. | |
when Wales, clearly loses out? I'm not sure by I accept that when you | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
look at overall underspend -- government spending. It is per | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
capita spending in Scotland, which is way ahead of per capita spending | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
in Wales, but per capita incomes in Scotland are way ahead of Wales Why | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
is that fair Labour politician? We have said we want to have more | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
equitable distribution. You haven't, you have said you will keep the | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
Barnett Formula. I'm not sure necessarily punishing Scotland is | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
the way to go. The way that this debate is going, what message does | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
it send to the Scottish people? I want to be clear, I am delighted | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
with the result we have got. The unity and solidarity where | :35:00. | :35:01. | |
maintaining across the nations of the United Kingdom. All of this | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
separatist talk, setting up different nations of the UK against | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
each other goes completely against what we've all been campaigning for | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
over the last two years, and we shouldn't have any truck with it. | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
Coming onto the announcement on the minimum wage, you would increase it | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
by ?1 50 to take it to ?8, which would be over five years. That is | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
all you are going to do over five years. Have you worked out how much | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
of this increase will be clawed back in taxation and fewer benefits? Work | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
has been done on it. How much? I can't give you an exact figure. The | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
policy pays for itself. The way we have looked at this, we looked at | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
the government figures, and if people are earning more, they would | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
therefore be paying more in income tax and they will be receiving less | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
in benefit and will pay out less in tax credits, so we are confident | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
that this will pay for itself. I'm not asking about the pavement, I'm | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
asking what it means for low paid workers will stop they will get an | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
extra 30p per hour -- about the payment. How much of the 30p to they | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
get to keep? In terms of what they get in the first instance, somebody | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
on the minimum wage now, with our proposal, would get in the region of | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
?3000 a year more than they are at the moment. That is before tax and | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
benefits. How much do they keep I cannot give you an exact figure Why | :36:29. | :36:35. | |
don't you give me an exact figure if you've done the modelling? We are | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
talking about some of the lowest paid people in the country, and I | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
would suggest to you that going down this route, they would face a | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
marginal rate of tax of 50 or 6 % and they will not keep most of this | :36:49. | :36:51. | |
increase you are talking about. I don't accept your figures. But you | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
haven't got any of your own. I just don't have any in my head I can give | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
you right now. Don't you think out policies before you announce them? | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
Of course we think our policies before we announce them but we are | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
confident people have more in their pocket and will be better off with | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
the changes proposed, and we are also seeking to incentivise | :37:13. | :37:14. | |
employers to pay a living wage as well. At the end of the day, as I | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
said, the economy is recovering great, but we know, at the moment, | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
it's still not delivering for a huge number of your viewers and we're | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
determined to do something about it. The status quo is not an option And | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
even joining me. Twice in three days. You can't have too much of a | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
good thing. I am mad. He said that, not me. | :37:36. | :37:37. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. We | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now for | :37:41. | :37:42. | |
Coming up here in twenty minutes, we'll be joined by John Prescott to | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
talk about the challenge facing Labour as their conference starts | :37:49. | :37:50. | |
First though, the Sunday Politics where you are. | :37:51. | :38:01. | |
I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics in the South East. | :38:02. | :38:03. | |
Labour's promising an ?8 an hour minimum wage, | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
more house building and scr`pping Police and Crime Commissiondrs. | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
As the Party conference beghns, we'll ask Deputy Leader Harriet | :38:11. | :38:12. | |
Harman whether Labour's doing enough to win votes in the South E`st. | :38:13. | :38:19. | |
Joining me in the studio today are Sam Gyimah, a Government Minister | :38:20. | :38:21. | |
for the Constitution, whose responsibilities will no doubt | :38:22. | :38:23. | |
Simon will stand for Labour at the General Election in the Dartford. | :38:24. | :38:33. | |
Make no mistake the politic`l fall`out from Scotland's no vote is | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
One question has been answered, but many more now demand our attention. | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
Sara Neville reports on the political response in the South East | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
As is one debate closes, another begins. | :38:48. | :38:58. | |
I have long believed that a crucial part missing from this | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
and now the millions of voices of England must also be heard. | :39:02. | :39:12. | |
But what does a vote 400 miles away in Scotland lean | :39:13. | :39:19. | |
the prosperous counties of Kent Surrey and Sussex, politically | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
The English question has suddenly become the biggest question | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
Until Thursday, it was the Scottish national question. | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
now the questions are all about the governance of England | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
The governance of towns likd Maidstone, | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
the administrative heart of Kent. | :39:43. | :39:44. | |
But how much devolution will there be for England and should | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
Scottish MPs be able to votd on English matters? | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
Nigel Farage was quick to m`ke his position clear, | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
getting his letters in the post to Scottish MPs, | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
imploring them not to vote on English issues. | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
Once we have sorted out the structure of the United Kingdom | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
maybe there is an argument for more devolution down to county council | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
I personally would be in favour of that. | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
As part of his commitment to Scotland, | :40:16. | :40:17. | |
David Cameron has promised to keep the public funding system that | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
currently means people in Scotland received more government money than | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
My constituents want to know why we are subsidising Scotland in | :40:26. | :40:33. | |
the way we have been doing `nd also why Scottish MPs vote on | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
English`only matters in the House of Commons. | :40:37. | :40:39. | |
with some of the Prime Minister s own MPs. | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
I would only support any devolution of more powers to Scotland | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
The first would be that the Barnett formula is scrapped | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
and that Scottish MPs should not be allowed to either vote on nor take | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
part in debates on any meastres that have been devolved to the | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
Those are the 2 two conditions on which I would support the plans | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
Cameron has a particular problem with Conservative rebels | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
in the south east, largely because he is facing a real challenge | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
He might want to be moderatd and sensible about the Englhsh | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
question but in the south`e`st he is going to be pushed by his own MPs to | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
do something quite radical `s they are under pressure from UKIP. | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
That is a pressure that is only going to build | :41:33. | :41:34. | |
in the run`up to the general election. | :41:35. | :41:46. | |
But the let's ask is whether the professor is right. He says the | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
Government of England is now the burning political question. Coming | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
up to the general election, will you be campaigning on English | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
governance? What is referendum has thrown up is that we have got to | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
deal with the Scottish question which is more devolution, as all | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
main political parties commhtted to. In order to deal with that, | :42:13. | :42:16. | |
we've also got to deal with the issue of England. As the Prhme | :42:17. | :42:20. | |
Minister said on Friday, th`t means English votes for English l`ws. But | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
is that a vote winner? I understand that politicians think this is | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
important is it important on the doorsteps? You heard Norman Baker | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
said that people are asking him about the Barnett formula and the | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
West Lothian question. Has `nyone ever really ask you that on the | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
doorstep? It is important bdcause it is about fairness. We need to make | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
sure that if a Scottish MP hs going to vote or should not be able to | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
vote on the tax of my consthtuents pay on the other way around. But | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
will you campaign on this? We will. The Prime Minister has said that we | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
have got clear proposals and hoping forward draft clauses and c`mpaign | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
on it. Simon, will you? I h`ve been going around the doorsteps for the | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
last year and a half and for people priorities are housing, jobs, cost | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
of living, transport and chhldcare. Nobody has talked to me abott the | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
Barnett formula or the democratic deficit for England. It may well be | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
an issue that we have to look at but what the 3 party leaders promised | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
before the Scottish referendum vote was that they would all givd | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
devolution and greater powers to Scotland. That is not negothable and | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
they cannot start now. David Cameron cannot start making false promises. | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
You cannot deal with Scotland without dealing with what is that | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
the heart of this. But David Cameron made that promise and then came out | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
last Friday... The Barnett formula is common to most people here in the | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
south`east, manifestly unfahr. There is a case to look at the Barnett | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
formula but not now, not in nine months. But you said there was not | :44:02. | :44:09. | |
this morning. I think at thhs stage dash`mac some stage we will have to | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
look at the Barnett formula, once we decide what devolution we w`nt for | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
England. But I want to see devolution being a federal system | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
from the bottom up. It can lean good things, involving a local councils, | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
regions, bringing them into our democratic process. We will get onto | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
devolution in a moment. A qtick thought. UKIP are making it running | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
on this. This is painful because there will be Tory backbenchers who | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
will want to matches arguments and this causes problems for yotr | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
letter. The Prime Minister promised on Friday that we are going to | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
deliver English votes for English MPs. The Prime Minister is the only | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
1 who can deliver. What Nigdl Farage is talking about this is unspecified | :44:55. | :45:01. | |
devolution to county council level. An English parliament, incrdasing | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
the cost of English politics, and we have got from proposals and a clear | :45:07. | :45:10. | |
timetable and the Prime Minhster has pitted firmly on the bulletdd | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
agenda. Many people think it is entirely unreasonable. We hdard a | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
little earlier David Cameron said on Friday... | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
on Friday that he would now look at how to "empower our great chties." | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
But what does that mean for us in the South East? | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
And what might a change in the political set up mean to our taxes, | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
Joining us here in the studio is David Hodgd who is | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
the leader of Surrey County Council, but also chair of the | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
`` I tried to wade through this document last night, your plan for | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
giving county council is more power, tell me in the simplest terls, what | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
you want for county council now What we actually believe should | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
happen now... There is a lot of talk about the Barnett formula btt the | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
people who have to deal with the Barnett formula everyday I local | :45:58. | :46:01. | |
government. That is myself `s the chairman of the County Council | :46:02. | :46:07. | |
network and others. We have to deal with the facts of that now. | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
Parliament has allowed it to continue for 30 years withott ever | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
doing anything about it. Wh`t we now need is somewhere along the line we | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
have to get involved in those discussions with William Hague, how | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
do we have a fairer funding system for local government? Is thhs all | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
about getting more money or is it about more power? The key bdhind the | :46:27. | :46:31. | |
one place, one budget philosophy is very simple. It is the vision that | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
we believe that as the county councils have saved 40% of funding | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
over the last four years, and in funny that his 260 million `nd we | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
are on for another 70,000,000 this year, we believe that we have the | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
capacity and size to look at how we could actually run public sdrvices | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
better. What do you want power to do? Power to reduce the costs of | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
public services and ensure that they work better together. According to | :47:02. | :47:07. | |
this document, power to raise council tax to whatever levdl you | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
want to without a referendul. We think that you cannot have ` 1 size | :47:12. | :47:19. | |
fit all county council level over the country. You cannot havd a | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
system whereby the Government gives power and funding to Manchester and | :47:23. | :47:29. | |
yet children in Mainstone and East Sussex do not have that samd | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
funding. The whole system is flawed. Let's bring our guests in. Do we | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
want county councils, famind, to have more power? We have he`rd a lot | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
from Westminster about citids but we are dominated by County Council | :47:46. | :47:52. | |
politics here. We have a re`l mishmash of who we are reprdsented | :47:53. | :47:55. | |
in this country will stop wd need to look again at how all of those are | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
involved in our democratic possess. That involves the way Parli`ment | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
operates and also other things. This was an issue 1970s, long before | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
Nigel Farage was out of short trousers. This is not a UKIP issue | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
and we need to have an honest debate but we cannot start in 6 months | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
David Cameron tried to hit the ground running and suggesting this | :48:21. | :48:24. | |
is what we need today. Able in the street may want to talk abott this | :48:25. | :48:27. | |
at some point but I do not think they won't David Cameron to tell | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
them what is going to happen. But they might quite like the idea of | :48:32. | :48:34. | |
the local County Council having more power. This is mentioned by Nigel | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
Farage and David also. Do the people of the South Eastern feel energised | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
by the idea of... I know thd people of cities like Manchester do but do | :48:46. | :48:51. | |
people really want their cotnty councils having more say in their | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
lives? People feel energised by David Cameron's promise of | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
devolution. William Hague's committee... Can we stop talking | :49:00. | :49:04. | |
about the national angle and talk about it at a local level. Can I | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
finish? William Hague will look at all aspects, including the local | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
angle. We should not confusd the issue of the funding issue for local | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
government, about which I h`ve complained for many years, with the | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
big national question, which is that if we go ahead with devoluthon as it | :49:23. | :49:28. | |
has been discussed for Scotland a Scottish MP will vote on English | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
income tax whereas an English MP cannot fork on Scottish income tax. | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
That night but this is really important. Do people really trust | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
and have more confidence in the local politicians? This was | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
suggested by the green lettdr of Brendan dash`mac Green leaddr of | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
rating and all. The City Cotncil for a start, do people really bdlieve | :49:50. | :49:54. | |
that when they have not had there beens empty? Do people really trust | :49:55. | :50:03. | |
their local politicians? I think there is no doubt about it, the | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
evidence is clear, that people trust local councillors more than as a | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
Parliament. But the public `re not asking for county councils to be | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
raising their income tax more than they have already. Nobody is asking | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
for that, which is what you want. The people want to ensure that where | :50:21. | :50:23. | |
there is a demand for those services and when you have people of 65, 75 | :50:24. | :50:30. | |
and 85 in the county areas `re almost double the area in inner | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
London and receive the lowest funding for those people, the system | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
is broken. We need a fundamdntal look at the local government | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
settlement system. Let me go back to the people and what they thhnk about | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
this. You're in the south`e`st we are so close to London, do we really | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
feel eliminated by Westminster politics as those in the North do? | :50:54. | :51:03. | |
Now but we have a lot of problems in Dartford that are shared by London | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
but we did not benefit from the solutions of transport and housing. | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
There are cancelled here th`t should have a voice and that should matter | :51:14. | :51:17. | |
to the Democratic process. H wanted to say thank you to David. Ht has | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
been great having you with ts. Now, it's been a very different | :51:20. | :51:21. | |
beginning to the annual polhtical party season, dominated as ht has | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
been by the fallout This week is | :51:25. | :51:26. | |
the Labour gathering and so, travelling up to Manchester will be | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
many parliamentary candidatds who will stand in constituencies | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
across the south east, like Simon. A little earlier I spoke to | :51:33. | :51:34. | |
the Deputy Leader of the I began by asking her what Labour | :51:35. | :51:37. | |
can say this week that will resonate on the doorsteps of south e`st | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
at the general election. Well, obviously we think thdre | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
are people in Sussex, Surrex, Hampshire who actually are | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
feeling the problems that are coming | :51:50. | :51:51. | |
from this government, with the cost`of`living rising and their | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
pay not getting better, with trouble It is not as if | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
the south east has not got lany of the same problems that other people | :51:58. | :52:04. | |
get fed up with all around Dngland. And also, not only | :52:05. | :52:08. | |
the economic situation and their own family budgets but also the issue | :52:09. | :52:12. | |
of the fact that England is too centralised and certain things need | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
to be changed and decisions made to So you would support devolution to | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
a county council level, to Kent County Council and | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
Suffolk County Council? Actually, the local authorities | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
throughout England, and that includes the ones where Labour is | :52:33. | :52:36. | |
running the councils and whdre the are saying that the country is too | :52:37. | :52:39. | |
centralised and it could work better if more decisions | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
were made at local level and more Because there are particular | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
problems in the south`east which people in the south e`st often | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
feel London, although it is not far away geographically, | :52:55. | :52:59. | |
does not understand and thex could There needs to be | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
a proper discussion about this and Ed Miliband has said we will | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
set this in motion, including And in autumn of next year, we will | :53:08. | :53:10. | |
have a constitutional convention to bring it all together and work out | :53:11. | :53:18. | |
what it means, including what it means for the | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
House of Commons and MPs. But it is not just London that | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
people feel abstracted from. They do not feel that Labour has | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
got anything to offer them. You were completely wiped | :53:30. | :53:32. | |
off the map in Kent There are small gains in pl`ces | :53:33. | :53:35. | |
like Crawley but not elsewhdre What have you got in partictlar | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
to attract voters in our region We have been making some progress | :53:40. | :53:47. | |
and winning more council se`ts but yes, it is true that in 201 we | :53:48. | :53:52. | |
were very far back in the polls Since then, I think, people have | :53:53. | :53:59. | |
seen that despite the fact that they have been working harddr and | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
the government tells them that the recovery is there, a lot of people | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
have felt that there might be a recovery but their season thcket has | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
gone up much higher than thdir pay and it is a headache | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
trying to get the right child care to work in a way that they want to | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
to support their families. So I think that we have got | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
a whole range of measures to put forward to people at | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
the next general election when they Will those include capping | :54:27. | :54:30. | |
rail fares and will they On both of those | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
and also a freeze on energy bills. And if you look at childcard, we | :54:36. | :54:44. | |
need women to be going out to work and they need to be going ott to | :54:45. | :54:48. | |
work for their own household budgets so we are saying 25 hours of free | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
nursery provision a week for three and four`year`olds and then | :54:53. | :54:59. | |
if parents want to top up and have more hours then thdy can | :55:00. | :55:02. | |
pay for that themselves but they would have 25 hours free, | :55:03. | :55:04. | |
which I think would be, you know, a very important step forward | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
and will appeal to many people. How many seats do you think you | :55:09. | :55:16. | |
need to take in the south e`st to look like a credible force `gain | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
in English politics? I think it is about appealing to | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
people in the south east and I am not | :55:23. | :55:25. | |
a pollster or political comlentator, I am somebody who actually listens | :55:26. | :55:36. | |
to people in the south east, talks to them and actually then | :55:37. | :55:39. | |
brings to the Labour Party those points of view to get the policies | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
which can deliver for peopld. I will leave the predictions to | :55:43. | :55:45. | |
your commentators but I think that actually there are | :55:46. | :55:47. | |
people in the south east who want change every bit as much as people | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
in the West Midlands or the North. Let's pick up on one of the big | :55:51. | :56:02. | |
conference announcements. Ed Miliband has said that he would like | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
to see the minimum wage increased to ?8. We have talked about thd living | :56:08. | :56:17. | |
wage, which various county councils voted against for their staff. He | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
stings and said they would not survive higher salary commitments. | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
What do you say to them? I think it is the question of what sochety you | :56:26. | :56:32. | |
want to live in. A just sochety or an answer society. I do not think it | :56:33. | :56:37. | |
pounds per hour is too much to pay your stuff. Think about how much it | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
costs to get to London to work. Ed Miliband is not promising ?8 per | :56:43. | :56:50. | |
hour. He is saying that by 2020 The national minimum wage we ard | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
delivering an above inflation national minimum wage. This is it | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
pounds per hour. By 2020 it is derisory. What we are offerhng is 2 | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
things. Because of our long`term economic plan you have got `n above | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
average increase in minimum wage. Number 2 we are offering an income | :57:14. | :57:18. | |
tax free ?10,000 of your earnings as a result of which 26 million people | :57:19. | :57:25. | |
have had... How much do you earn? That is a good question. Thd point | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
is that we should allow people to keep more of what they earn and we | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
are delivering that by giving ?10,000 free of income tax. They | :57:35. | :57:40. | |
will be a lot of people on ` fraction of what... It is not about | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
me. Do you think the spare to get paid ?8 per hour to be paid on? It | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
is derisory when you do not have an economic plan. So you think you re | :57:52. | :57:57. | |
going to give more than ?8 per hour by 2020? We all deliver... H am | :57:58. | :58:04. | |
going to move on. What will minimum wage be? We are already delhvering | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
an above average increase. H wanted to move on to house`building. You | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
know this in Kent as a board when, we have seen major protest `bout | :58:14. | :58:19. | |
thousands of new homes planned for Kent villages. How do you pdrsuade | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
people that you will deliver and that it is good for people? I was | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
talking about this when it was the question of garden cities. Xou do | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
not want garden cities in places where there are green belts. What he | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
wanted to do is build those affordable houses in places like the | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
industrial wastelands of constituencies like Dartford. There | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
is a huge swathes of land lxing empty. That is why the idea from | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
Labour to say to developers is use it or lose it is so important and | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
that is why we need to have collaboration so the infrastructure | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
goes in before the housing hs built. Enjoy your party conference I know | :58:59. | :59:01. | |
you're going straight off after the show. | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
And now for a round`up of the other political events that | :59:05. | :59:06. | |
you might have missed this week with James Fitzgerald. | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
I look forward to flying back into Manston at some point in thd future. | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
Manston campaigners were told in a ministerial visit that thdy have | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
got the government's support to reopen the airport. | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
American firm RiverOak conthnues to insist it has the funds. | :59:21. | :59:23. | |
I don't want to say is a slam dunk | :59:24. | :59:26. | |
but we are in a pretty good position. | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
With scenes of rubbish`strewn streets reminiscent of industrial | :59:31. | :59:32. | |
action last year, Brighton's refuse workers went on strike | :59:33. | :59:34. | |
We want to be recognised for the job we do. | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
They keep holding back and holding back. | :59:39. | :59:41. | |
The authority says it cannot meet their financial demands. | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
The Health Secretary, Jeremx Hunt, met staff at the Medway Marhtime, | :59:45. | :59:46. | |
saying that faster progress is needed | :59:47. | :59:49. | |
to take the challenged hospital out of special measures. | :59:50. | :59:52. | |
We are doing a lot but I think the hospital management | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
would be the first to say that more needs to be done. | :59:56. | :59:58. | |
And the Government may give France ?12 million to boost security | :59:59. | :00:01. | |
at Calais to stem the flow of migrants | :00:02. | :00:04. | |
trying to illegally enter the UK through the port. | :00:05. | :00:13. | |
That's all we've got time for from the South East this wedk. | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
The quick thought. Will ?12 million. Problem? The answer is to work with | :00:22. | :00:33. | |
the EU. Is the boundless general estate going to solve the problem in | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
colour? Speed, it is an important step and let's see what happens | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
Desperately sad scenes. Simon Thomson. Natalie will be here | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
live next week with more politics the Conservative mayor's policy No | :00:44. | :00:58. | |
more time I'm afraid. Andrew, back to you. | :00:59. | :01:06. | |
Welcome back the to Labour conference, where we're joined | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
by the latest hot new stand-up comedian on the Manchester circuit. | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
I speak of course of former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott. | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
In between giving tub-thumping speeches to rally | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
the party faithful this week, he's appearing at the Comedy Store. | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
He was also of course the man behind the last attempt to solve | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Our political panel is with me as well. John, we have got Scottish | :01:26. | :01:36. | |
votes for Scottish laws, and more Scottish votes for Scottish laws, | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
why not English votes for English laws? That's an English parliament | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
in a major constitutional change and that is what has started. I | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
certainly don't agree with that I campaign for powers to be given to | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
the regions. When I first tested it in the Northeast, I lost. Why? | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
Because they said they were not the same powers you are giving to | :01:57. | :02:01. | |
Scotland. So, basically, we must do that, decentralised, not just with a | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
Westminster Parliament. As you know, in 32 years I produce the | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
alternative. You've kept that for 32 years? I took it off my shelf and | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
everybody was talking about it now, but they weren't in 1982. This was | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
my five plan. 200 meetings all around the country -- five-year | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
plan. You wrote this morning, not 35 years ago, that this was a plot to | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
turn Westminster into a Tory dominated English parliament. But if | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
that is how England had voted, it's not a plot, it's democracy. You can | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
get reform in a more federal structure, and even English | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
parliament does fit into the federal structure and that is what the | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
Liberals say, but you need a fairer representation. It might be quite | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
radical, and we could get rid of the Lord's, and have representation in | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
the region there. It can't be done in two weeks. Alex Salmond, he's | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
assuming he has been sold out, and it was less than a week ago they | :03:05. | :03:07. | |
remain the announcement. We have to get it carried out will stop but | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
don't connect it to the English parliament that fixes it in their | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
favour. It may be pretty low politics from David Cameron to come | :03:19. | :03:20. | |
up with something that was not in the vowel -- a bow on the front page | :03:21. | :03:27. | |
of the daily record, but if they do not agree with what he said at the | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
time of the general election, he will say two in which voters, if you | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
want real protection in England vote Conservative, and if you want | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
Scottish MPs deciding on your level of taxation, vote Labour. He is | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
scared to death of UKIP may have been saying it for a while. In the | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
constitutional changes have to see what is fair and equitable, the same | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
with the Barnett fallen -- formula. But what you have to do is get a | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
fair system. It takes time to discuss it. I was doing a 32 years | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
ago and nobody wanted to know. We had better start a debate, and don't | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
mixed up the constitutional type of English parliament with what we are | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
promising in Scotland. It is about trust and politics. So the turnout | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
of the north-east regional assembly and they voted against it. The | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
turnout that the police and crime commissioners was low. How'd you get | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
people interested in the process and it doesn't feel like a conversation | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
in smoky rooms and you go back to British people and tell them what | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
you decided? If you look at the turnout in Scotland whether they | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
were interested in, now it is phenomenally interesting. It is | :04:34. | :04:35. | |
about real power, having real influence. What they said to me in | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
the north-east, they said we know you have an idea for devolution and | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
you will give us assemblies but it doesn't have the power of Scotland, | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
but now we are talking about equity, similar distribution of | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
power and similar resources. The English people are entitled to that. | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
They have been robbed of it for too long. Labour has long struggled with | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
what it should do over devolving power to the regions and you came up | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
with regional assemblies. Ed Miliband has a different idea of | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
city regions. Aren't they the same idea of yours but without a | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
democratic accountability? Can we really trust the greater region of | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
Manchester or Birmingham to deliver if there is not the same kind of | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
democratic link with the people I live in whole, and it stops on the | :05:19. | :05:24. | |
boundary of the Pennines -- the city of Hull. We have city regions from | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
Labour because I failed in the north-east to get the assemblies in, | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
and now we have to look at those options. Do you work through city | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
regions? Mainly in the north, I might say. Even the federal | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
structure they talk about my be in the North or Midlands with | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
Birmingham, but there are a number of options and that is where I | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
believe that what the White Paper should do is to put those options | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
in. Instead of having to put them together, state what you want to do | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
in the English regions. Leave it to the legislation, which is what will | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
happen with the Scottish, and once you've agreed it, you do it after. | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
You have to start the radical debate about giving the English regions, | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
not centralised in London, but decentralised. Do you need to have a | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
separate English parliament? Wouldn't it just satisfy the English | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
if you simply said to MPs, when it's in English matter in the House of | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
Commons, stop interfering? I would disagree with that. I would say put | :06:22. | :06:24. | |
the option in the White Paper. The White Paper seems to be talking | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
about Scotland. If you don't put the commitments to what you want to do | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
with the English regions, people might say I'm not supporting that. | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
Put the framework in the White Paper, but a different timetable. | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
Devolution in this country has been to a different timetable, whether | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
it's Wales, Northern Ireland. Start looking fundamentally at it and the | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
Labour Party should be leading the debate. Let's come the no campaign | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
lost Glasgow. The cradle of British socialism. -- let's come to | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
something that happened with the referendum as the no campaign lost | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
Glasgow. Is it a sign that the Labour Party are finding it hard to | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
what -- hold on to their traditional working class vote question mark its | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
different in Manchester. They would say it is a message about | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
decentralisation. If we change the message a bit maybe. We have been | :07:17. | :07:25. | |
thinking that now it is that either the Labour Party to recognise it is | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
not the old message and old areas that will win it. I remember | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
covering the 1997 referendum in Scotland and you gave a tub thumping | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
speech in a big hall in Hamilton and you really connected. Obviously it | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
was a different referendum because that was about a parliament, not | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
independence and Alex Salmond was on your side, but you, and Ingush MP, | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
an English minister, connected to the core Labour voters in a way that | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
Ed Miliband is failing to do -- an English MP. You make a fair point. | :07:54. | :08:02. | |
In the big rally, I had to point out I was Welsh. Enough of this. Get on | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
with it. What I was saying there was that I supported you, as I did for | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
30 odd years when Labour MPs were against any thinker Scotland. I | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
support you, but I expect you to come in with your Scottish MPs and | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
make sure the English get their share of the powers and resources | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
and that is what that speech was about, and by God, it's as relevant | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
today as it was then. I haven't got any Scottish MPs, I live in | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
Knightsbridge. Did you get the vote? No. What would you have done? I | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
can't tell you. You would have voted yes, come on. I'm interested. What | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
do you want to hear from the speech by Ed Miliband? People are wondering | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
about where Labour stands. There are many issues we have flown around, | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
and we've done the discussion just now. What he has got to do where he | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
started off on the minimum wage You are trying to deal with those left | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
behind. Those are the bottom. That is the Labour message. The National | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
Health Service is our creation and we have to say it will be saved If | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
you can save all of these bankers with all the money and say you | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
haven't got the money for the NHS, say where we stand. That will be the | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
priority. The third one, housing. I have had a revolutionary idea that | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
you can buy a house without a deposit and without the interest or | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
paying the stamp duty, and you buy it by rent. The government gives | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
?150 billion guaranteed housing for up to 600,000. Get down to ordinary | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
people who can use their rent to buy the house. It's happening in the | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
north-east. Why are they not listening to you? You have said more | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
to connect with ordinary people in three minutes than we will probably | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
hear in an hour. I've been telling them, made, and we have a commission | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
coming out. People don't want commissions, they want action. I | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
say, I know what we do, housing health, the people. That is our | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
language. That is why we are Labour. That a lot of people run away. I | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
think in Glasgow, they wondered about that. If you turn up on the | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
same three platforms, and I know it's a critical thing to say, they | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
think in Scotland it is a coalition. I don't like coalitions. It looks | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
like a coalition, didn't it? Maybe it was saved because Rupert Murdoch | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
started the The Times about the polls and he couldn't even get the | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
sun to say that they wanted. We haven't got time. I wondered how | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
long it would take is to get to repot Murdoch. You beat the record. | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
-- to Rupert Murdoch. Labour is quite behind on the economy, and | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
people are looking at Labour, trying to work out if they can trust you to | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
the stewards of the economy given 2010. Under Labour 's plans there is | :10:55. | :11:00. | |
20 billion of cuts to make in the next Parliament. Will we hear | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
anything about that? It is about the proportion of debt to GDP. I know it | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
sounds historic, but our debt when we came in in 1997 was a proportion | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
of GDP, and you must know this, and that was less than Thatcher's. Why | :11:17. | :11:22. | |
did we get done on debt? You guys run around saying a lot about it, | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
but the fact is it was worse under Thatcher. Thatcher is now seen as a | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
hero. If you look at the debt, it is still a problem. Gordon Brown did an | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
awful lot to solve those problems, but they were still left with us. | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
What we have to have is a sensible discussion like we had on devolution | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
and now we are talking about finances. Let's look at the public | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
sector debt and the price we pay. We need to be putting the record | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
straight. The problem is they tell me, John, we have to look to the | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
future not the past. We are getting screwed on the past and we have to | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
change it and perhaps Gordon Brown coming in could do something. | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
Finishing on the future, when we did a poll of the Labour candidates you | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
were watching on the big screen when it came up that their favourite | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
to succeed Ed Miliband was Yvette Cooper, why did you shout no! That | :12:15. | :12:24. | |
is alive. -- alive. -- that is not true. I know resistance is not | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
strong. What did that mean? You can't get away with anything at | :12:28. | :12:44. | |
a Conference, John. I was dropping comments them to pick up everywhere, | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
I do not wear -- nowhere they got that one from. Good to have you | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
back. Round of applause for former Deputy Prime Minister. That's it for | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
today. Don't applaud them, they are useless. | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
my guests. I'll be back here at Labour conference for the Daily | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
11:30am tomorrow when we'll bring you live coverage of the speech by | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
We're here all week, and next Sunday you can find us in Birmingham for | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:17. | :13:22. |