Browse content similar to 02/04/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It's Sunday Morning and this is the Sunday Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
The Government has insisted that Gibraltar will not be bargained | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
But the territory's chief minister says the EU's proposal | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
After a momentous week, Britain's journey out | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
Can the Prime Minister satisfy her critics at home | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
We speak to the former Conservative leader, Michael Howard. | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
And we have the lowdown on next month's local elections - | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
what exactly is up for grabs, who's going up and who's going down? | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
And in the South East, as the Prime Mininster | :01:09. | :01:10. | |
begins her Brexit negotiations, we go out and about. | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
What do you think her priorities should be? | :01:13. | :01:18. | |
changing their minds. MPs from opposing sides give the view from | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
there constituencies. And with me, as always, | :01:22. | :01:29. | |
the best and the brightest political panel in the business - | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott and Tom Newton Dunn who'll be | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
tweeting throughout the programme. For the people of Gibraltar, Clause | :01:35. | :01:39. | |
22 of the EU's draft negotiating guidelines came as something | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
of a shock. The guidelines propose | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
that the Government in Spain be given a veto over any future trade | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
deal as it applies to The UK Government has reacted | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
strongly, saying Gibraltar will not be bargained away | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
in the Brexit talks. Here's the Defence Secretary, | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
Michael Fallon, speaking We are going to look | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
after Gibraltar. Gibraltar's going to be protected | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
all the way, all the way, because the sovereignty of Gibraltar | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
cannot be changed without the agreement of the people | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
of Gibraltar and they have made it very clear they do not | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
want to live under Spanish rule and it is interesting, I think, | :02:23. | :02:24. | |
in the draft guidelines from the EU that Spain is not saying | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
that the whole thing is subject Michael Fallon earlier. Steve, is | :02:28. | :02:39. | |
this a Spanish power grab or much ado about nothing? It could be both. | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
Clearly what is happening about this negotiation and will happen again | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
and again is that at different points individual countries can | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
start playing bargaining cards. They will say, if you want a deal, you | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
have to deliver this, UK. Spain is doing it early. It might turn out to | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
be nothing at all. It is an early example of how to delete recruit | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
after Article 50 is triggered, the dynamic -- how after Article 50 is | :03:12. | :03:19. | |
triggered, the dynamic changes. At certain points, any country can veto | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
it. It gives them much more power than we have clocked so far. Donald | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
Tusk, the head of the European Council, he went out of his way to | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
say Britain mustn't deal by laterally, with individual | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
countries, it has to deal with the EU as a block. Was it mischiefmaking | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
to add this bit in about Spain? Those two things do not tally. I | :03:44. | :03:51. | |
think on our part, when I say we, I mean the Foreign Office and Number | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
10, we dropped the ball. By excluding Gibraltar from the letter | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
of Article 50, they gave an opportunity to the Spanish to steal | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
the narrative. Why this is important, presentation, things | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
looked like they were going quite well for Theresa May when she handed | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
over the letter, for a few hours, and suddenly, you have this | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
incredible symbolism of Gibraltar. For Brexiteers, the idea that there | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
could be some kind of diminishment or failure in relation to Gibraltar, | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
it would be a very symbolic illustration of things not going | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
entirely to plan. Forget the detail, it does not look great. Gibraltar | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
got mentions in the white paper. They did not get a mention in the | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
Article 50 notification. Do you think the British Government did not | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
see this coming? To be honest, I do not think it would make a bit of | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
difference. Theresa May could have an entire chapter in her letter to | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
Donald Tusk and the Spanish and the EU would have still tried this on. | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
For me, it was as much a point of symbolism than it was for any power | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
grab. It was a good point to make. You need to know, Britain, you are | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
not in our club, we will not have your interests at heart. Officials | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
after the press conference, they went on to talk about it saying it | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
is a territorial dispute. It is not! Gibraltar is British. It is very | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
much a shot across the bow is. Whether it comes to pass, it is | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
still yet to be seen. I feel we will be chasing hares like this for the | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
next few years. There will be many other examples. They are greatly | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
empowered by the whole process. Britain has not really got... It has | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
got to wait and hear what their interpretation of Brexit is. They | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
will negotiate, we will negotiate accordingly. I have some sympathy | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
about the letter, the Article 50 letter. They agonised over it, so | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
much to get right in terms of balance and tone. It would have been | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
absurd to start mentioning Skegness and everything else. Why not! | :06:11. | :06:21. | |
Skegness, what did they do? It is a real example of how the dynamic now | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
changes. The Spanish royals are going to come here in a couple of | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
months, that could be interesting. It will be good feelings breaking | :06:31. | :06:36. | |
up, I am sure. -- breaking out. So, after a historic week, | :06:37. | :06:44. | |
the UK is now very much But will it be a smooth | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
journey to the exit door? Or can we expect | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
a bit of turbulence? Are you taking back | :06:51. | :06:52. | |
control, Prime Minister? Big days in politics usually | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
involve people shouting and the Prime Minister getting | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
in a car. It is only a few hundred metres | :06:58. | :06:59. | |
from Downing Street to Parliament. But the short journey is the start | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
of a much longer one and we do not know exactly | :07:03. | :07:05. | |
where we will all end up. This is a historic moment | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
from which there can Moments earlier, this Dear John, | :07:11. | :07:12. | |
sorry, Dear Don letter, was delivered by Britain's | :07:13. | :07:21. | |
ambassador in Brussels to the EU He seemed genuinely upset | :07:22. | :07:24. | |
to have been jilted. Back in Westminster, | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
hacks from around the world were trying to work out what it | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
all meant for the So, here it is, a copy | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
of the six-page letter The letter reaffirms the PM's | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
proposal to have talks on the exit deal and a future trade deal | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
at the same time. It also mentioned the word | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
"security" 11 times and stated a failure to reach agreement | :07:52. | :07:53. | |
would mean cooperation in the fight against crime | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
and terrorism would be weakened. Later, our very own Andrew got | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
to ask her what would happen if Britain left the European | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
policing agency, Europol. We would not be able to access | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
information in the same way as we would as a member, | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
so it is important, I think, we are able to negotiate | :08:14. | :08:16. | |
a continuing relationship that enables us to work together | :08:17. | :08:18. | |
in the way that we have. That night, the | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
Brexiteers were happy. We did not have a Mad | :08:21. | :08:22. | |
Hatter, but now we do. Down the street, even the Remainers, | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
having a Mad Hatters' tea party, I am not sure that is | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
actually Boris, though. The next morning, the papers | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
suggested Theresa May would use security as a bargaining tool | :08:42. | :08:56. | |
and threaten to withdraw the UK's cooperation in this area | :08:57. | :08:56. | |
if no deal was struck. Downing Street denied it, | :08:57. | :08:57. | |
as did the Brexit Secretary. We can both cope, but we | :08:58. | :08:57. | |
will both be worse off. That seems to be a statement | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
of fact, it is not a threat, David Davis had other | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
business that morning, introducing the Great Repeal Bill, | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
outling his plans to transfer all EU law into British | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
law to change later, It is not without its critics | :09:10. | :09:11. | |
but the Brexit Secretary said, among other benefits, | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
it would make trade talks easier As we exit the EU and seek | :09:17. | :09:18. | |
a new deep and special partnership with the European Union, | :09:19. | :09:25. | |
we are doing so from a position where we have the same | :09:26. | :09:27. | |
standards and rules. It will also ensure we deliver | :09:28. | :09:29. | |
on our promise to end the supremacy of European Union law | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
in the UK as we exit. There was, though, a small | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
issue with the name. The Government hit an early hurdle | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
with the Great Repeal Bill. Parliamentary draughtsmen said | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
they were not allowed Great(!) | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
so it is just the Repeal Bill. So far, it had been | :09:51. | :09:58. | |
a tale of two cities. By Friday, there was another, | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
Valletta in Malta, where EU leaders were having a meeting | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
and President Tusk, yes, him again, set out draft guidelines | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
for the EU Brexit strategy. Once, and only once, | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
we have achieved sufficient progress on the withdrawal can we discuss | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
the framework for our Starting parallel talks | :10:17. | :10:19. | |
on all issues at the same time, as suggested by some in the UK, | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
will not happen. The EU 27 does not and will not | :10:23. | :10:31. | |
pursue a punitive approach. Brexit in itself is | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
already punitive enough. The pressure on Theresa May to get | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
the Brexit process going has now gone and the stage is being set | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
elsewhere for the showdown But face-to-face discussions | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
are not likely to happen Before May or early June. No one is | :10:49. | :10:58. | |
celebrating just yet. We're joined now from Kent | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
by the former Conservative The EU says it will not talk about a | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
future relationship with the UK until there has been sufficient | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
progress on agreeing the divorce bill. Should the UK agree to this | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
phased approach? Well, I think you can make too much about the sequence | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
and timing of the negotiations. I assume that it will be a case of | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
nothing is agreed until everything is agreed and so any agreements that | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
might be reached on things talked about early on will be very | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
provisional, so I think you can make a big deal about the timing and the | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
sequence when I do not think it really matters as much as all that. | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
Don't people have a right in this country to be surprised of the talk | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
of a massive multi-billion pound divorce settlement? I do not | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
remember either side making much of this in the referendum, do you? No. | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
A select committee of the House of Lords recently reported and said | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
that there was no legal basis for any exit fee. We will have to see | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
how the negotiations go. I think some of the figures cited so far are | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
wildly out of kilter and wildly unrealistic. We will have to see | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
what happens in the negotiations. As one of your panel commented earlier, | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
there will be lots of hares to pursue over the next couple of years | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
and we should not get too excited about any of them. Would you accept | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
that we make... It may not be anything like the figures Brussels | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
is kicking around of 50, 60 billion euros, do you think we will have to | :12:50. | :12:57. | |
make a one-off settlement? If we get everything else we want, if we get a | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
really good trade deal and access for the City of London and so on, | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
speaking for myself, I would be prepared to make a modest payment. | :13:09. | :13:11. | |
But it all depends on the deal we get. What would modest be? Oh, I | :13:12. | :13:21. | |
cannot give you a figure. We are right at the start of the | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
negotiations. I do not think that would be agreed until near the end. | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
The EU says that if there is a transition period of several years | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
after the negotiations, and there is more talk of that, the UK must | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
remain subject to the free movement of peoples and the jurisdiction of | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
the European Court of Justice, would that be acceptable to you? It | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
depends on the nature of the transitional agreement. We are | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
getting well ahead of ourselves here. You cannot, I think, for any | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
judgment as to whether there should be a transitional stage until you | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
know what the final deal is. If there is to be a final deal. And | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
then you know how long it might take to implement that deal. That is | :14:08. | :14:14. | |
something I think that it is really rather futile to talk about at this | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
stage. It may become relevant, depending on the nature of the deal, | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
and that is the proper time to talk about it and decide what the answer | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
to the questions you pose might be. Except the EU has laid this out in | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
its negotiation mandate and it is reasonable to ask people like | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
yourself, should we accept that? It is reasonable for me to say, they | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
will raise all sorts of things in their negotiating mandate and we do | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
not need to form a view of all of them at this stage. Let me try | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
another one. The EU says if they do agree what you have called a | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
comprehensive free trade deal, we would have to accept EU constraints | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
on state aid and taxes like VAT and corporation tax. Would you accept | :15:00. | :15:07. | |
that? Again, I am not sure quite what they have in mind on that. We | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
will be an independent country when we leave and we will make our own | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
decisions about those matters. Not according to know that -- to the | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
negotiating mandate. As I have said, they can put all sorts of things in | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
the negotiating guidelines, it does not mean we have to agree with them. | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
No doubt that is something we can discuss in the context of a free | :15:33. | :15:38. | |
trade agreement. If we get a free trade agreement, that is very | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
important for them as well as for us, and we can talk about some of | :15:43. | :15:43. | |
the things you have just mentioned. Can you please leave a 20 without | :15:44. | :15:56. | |
having repatriated full control of migration, taxis and the law? I | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
think we will have repatriated all three of those things by the time of | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
the next general election. How high would you rate the chances of no | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
deal, and does that prospect worry you? I think the chances are we will | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
get the deal, and I think the chances are we will get a good deal, | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
because that is in the interests of both sides of this negotiation. But | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
it is not the end of the world if we do not get a deal. Most trade in the | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
world is carried out under World Trade Organisation rules. We would | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
be perfectly OK if we traded with the European Union, as with | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
everybody else, under World Trade Organisation rules. It is better to | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
get the deal, and I think we will get the deal, because it is in the | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
interests of both. Let me ask you about Gibraltar. You have campaigned | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
in Gibraltar when the sovereignty issue came up under the Tony Blair | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
government. The EU says that Spain should have a veto on whether any | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
free-trade deal should apply to the Rock. How should the British | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
government replied to that? As it has responded, by making it | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
absolutely clear that we will stand by Gibraltar. 35 years ago this | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
week, Andrew, another woman Prime Minister Centre task force is | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
halfway across the world to protect another small group of British | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
people against another Spanish-speaking country. I am | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
absolutely clear that our current woman Prime Minister will show the | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
same resolve in relation to Gibraltar as her predecessor did. | :17:40. | :17:50. | |
This is not about Spain invading Gibraltar, it is not even about | :17:51. | :17:52. | |
sovereignty, it is about Spain having a veto over whether any | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
free-trade deal that the UK makes with the EU should also apply to | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
Gibraltar. On that issue, how should the British government respond? The | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
British government should show resolve. It is not in the interests | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
of Spain, really, to interfere with free trade to Gibraltar. 10,000 | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
people who live in Spain working Gibraltar. That is a very important | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
Spanish interest, so I am very confident that in the end, we will | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
be able to look after all the interests of Gibraltar, including | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
free trade. Michael Howard, thank you for joining us from Kent this | :18:29. | :18:29. | |
morning. Although sometimes it seems | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
like everyone has forgotten, there are things happening | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
other than Brexit. In less than five weeks' time, | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
there will be a round of important domestic elections and there's a lot | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
up for grabs. Local elections take place | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
on the 4th of May in England, In England, there are elections | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
in 34 councils, with 2,370 The majority are county councils, | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
usually areas of strength Large cities where Labour usually | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
fares better are not Six regions of England will also | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
hold elections for newly created combined authority mayors, | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
and there will be contests for directly elected mayors, | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
with voters in Manchester, Liverpool and the West Midlands | :19:11. | :19:17. | |
among those going to the polls. In Scotland, every seat in all 32 | :19:18. | :19:19. | |
councils are being contested, many of them affected | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
by boundary changes. Since these seats were last | :19:23. | :19:24. | |
contested, Labour lost all but one Meanwhile, every seat in each | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
of Wales' 22 councils All but one was last elected | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
in 2012 in what was a very strong year for Labour, | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
though independent candidates currently hold | :19:40. | :19:40. | |
a quarter of council seats. According to the latest | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
calculations by Plymouth University Election Centre, | :19:44. | :19:45. | |
the Tories are predicted to increase their tally by 50 seats, | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
despite being in government, But the dramatic story in England | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
looks to be with the other parties, with the Lib-Dems possibly winning | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
100 seats, while Ukip could be seeing a fall, | :20:00. | :20:02. | |
predicted to lose 100 seats. Though the proportional system | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
usually makes big changes less likely in Scotland, | :20:08. | :20:09. | |
the SNP is predicted to increase both the number of seats | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
they hold, and the number In Wales, Labour is defending a high | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
water mark in support. Last year's Welsh Assembly elections | :20:15. | :20:23. | |
suggest the only way is down, with all the parties making modest | :20:24. | :20:26. | |
gains at Labour's expense. Joining me now is the BBC's | :20:27. | :20:28. | |
very own elections guru, Professor John Curtice | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
of the University of Strathclyde. Good to see you again. Let's start | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
with England. How bad are the selection is going to be for Labour? | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
Labourer not defending a great deal because this is for the most part | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
rural England. The only control three of the council they are | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
defending and they are only defending around 500 seats, I nearly | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
a quarter are in one county, Durham. Labour's position in the opinion | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
polls is weakened over the last 12 months and if you compare the | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
position in the opinion polls now with where they were in the spring | :21:05. | :21:16. | |
of 2013 when these seats in England were last fought, we are talking | :21:17. | :21:18. | |
about a 12 point swing from Labour to conservative. The estimate of 50 | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
losses may be somewhat optimistic for Labour. Of the three council | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
areas they control, two of them, Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire, | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
could be lost, leaving labourer with virtually a duck as far as council | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
control is concerned in these elections in England. In England, | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
what would a Liberal Democrat reserve urgently great? That is the | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
big question. We have had this picture since the EU referendum of | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
the Liberal Democrats doing extraordinarily well in some local | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
by-elections, gaining seats that they had not even fought before, and | :21:48. | :21:56. | |
in other areas, doing no more than treading water. We are expecting a | :21:57. | :21:58. | |
Liberal Democrat skin because the lost the lot -- the lost lots of | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
ground when they were in coalition with the Conservatives. It is | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
uncertain. A patchy performance may well be to their advantage. If they | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
do well in some places and gain seats, and elsewhere do not do | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
terribly well and do not waste votes, they may end up doing | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
relatively well in seats, even if the overall gaining votes is likely | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
to be modest. The elections for mayors, they are taking place in | :22:23. | :22:53. | |
the Labour will that be a hefty consolation prize for the Labour | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
Party? It ought to be, on Teesside, Merseyside, Greater Manchester. We | :22:57. | :22:58. | |
are looking at one content very closely, that is the contest for the | :22:59. | :23:01. | |
mayor of the West Midlands. If you look at what happened in the general | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
election in 2015, labourer work nine points ahead of the Conservatives in | :23:05. | :23:06. | |
the West Midlands. If you look at the swing since the general | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
election, if you add that swing to where we were two years ago, the | :23:10. | :23:11. | |
West Midlands now looks like a draw. Labour have to worry about a | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
headline grabbing loss, and the West Midlands contest. If they were to | :23:15. | :23:16. | |
lose, that wooden crate -- that would increase the pressure for | :23:17. | :23:18. | |
their own Jeremy Corbyn to convince people that they can turn his | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
party's fortunes around, and in truth at the moment, they are pretty | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
dire. The West Midlands has Birmingham as its heart. | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
Chock-a-block with marginal seats. It always has been. I always | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
remember election night and marginal seats in the West Midlands. | :23:38. | :23:44. | |
Scotland, the SNP is assaulting Labour's last remaining power base. | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
The biggest prizes Glasgow. Will it take it, the SNP? Whether the SNP | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
will gain control of Glasgow is uncertain. If you look at what is | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
happening in local government by-elections let alone the opinion | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
polls, in 2012, when these seats were last fought, Labour did | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
relatively well, only one percentage point behind the SNP who were rather | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
disappointed with the result compared to other elections. No sign | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
of that happening this time alone -- this time around. Polls put the SNP | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
ahead. By-elections have found the SNP advancing and Labour dropping by | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
double digits. Labour are going to lose everything they currently | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
control in Scotland, the SNP will become the dominant party, the | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
question is how well they do. In Scotland there is a Conservative | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
revival going on. The Conservatives did well in recent local government | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
by-elections. At the moment, Labour are expected to come third north of | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
the border in the local elections, repeating the third they suffered in | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
the Holyrood elections last year. In Wales, Labour is expecting to lose | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
control of a number of councils. They are the main party in 12 of 22 | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
local authorities. How bad could it be? We're expecting Labour to lose | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
ground. In the opinion polls when these seats were last fought, | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
labourer in the high 40s. Now they are not much above 30%. Cardiff | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
could well join Glasgow was no longer being a Labour stronghold. | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
Look out for Newport. Some of the South Wales councils that Labour | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
control, Labour is probably too but occasionally, Plaid | :25:26. | :25:41. | |
Cymru surprises in this area. They managed to win the Rhondda seat in | :25:42. | :25:43. | |
the assembly elections. Jeremy Corbyn has said he wants to be | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
judged on proper elections, council elections as opposed to opinion | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
polls, but even if he does as badly as John has been suggesting, does it | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
affect his leadership? I think it does on two counts. It will affect | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
his own confidence. Anyone who is a human being will be affected by | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
this. He might go into his office and be told by John McDonnell and | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
others, stand firm, it is all right, but it will affect his confidence | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
and inevitably it contributes to a sense that this is moving to some | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
kind of denoument, at some point. In other words, while I understand the | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
argument that he has won twice in a leadership contest, well, within 12 | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
months, I wonder whether this can carry on in a fixed term parliament, | :26:29. | :26:35. | |
up until 2020, if it were to do so. On two France, it will have some | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
impact. I am not seeing it will lead to his immediate departure, it will | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
mark, but if these things are as devastating as John suggests, it | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
will have an impact. Tom, I'll be looking at a Lib Dem fightback? That | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
is the $64,000 question. It would seem that we should be. One massive | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
reason we're not having a general election a time soon, apart from the | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
fact that Theresa May does not believe in these things, she | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
believes in pressing on, it is because Tory MPs in the South West | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
who took the Lib Dem seats, they were telling Number 10 they were | :27:14. | :27:16. | |
worried they were going to lose their seats back to the Lib Dems. | :27:17. | :27:20. | |
The Lib Dems never went away and local government. They have got | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
other campaigners and activists. It looks credible that they will be the | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
success story of the whole thing. Ukip leader, Paul Nuttall, he says | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
this will be the most difficult local elections his party will face | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
before 2020. A bit of management of expectations. It is unlikely to be a | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
good time for Ukip. They are right to manage expectations. The results | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
will be horrible for Ukip. I agree with Tom about the Lib Dem | :27:51. | :28:11. | |
threat to the Tories. Talking to some senior figures within the Tory | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
party earlier this week, I was picking up that they are worried | :28:15. | :28:16. | |
about 30-40 general election seeds being vulnerable to the Lib Dems | :28:17. | :28:19. | |
because of the Labour collapse. I would normally agree with Steve | :28:20. | :28:21. | |
about the resilience of politicians, the capability of withstanding | :28:22. | :28:23. | |
repeated blows, but Jeremy Corbyn is not in the normal category. I think | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
he is, in the sense that although he get solace from winning leadership | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
contest, anyone who leads a party into the kind of, it is not going to | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
be that vivid, because they are not defending the key seats. If they | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
were to win Birmingham, say, and get slaughtered by the SNP in Scotland, | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
it will undermine what is already a fairly ambiguous sense of | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
self-confidence. We need to leave it there. Thank you, John Curtice. | :28:49. | :28:50. | |
Well, with those elections on the horizon, is Labour where it | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
Former leader Ed Miliband was on the Andrew | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
Marr Show earlier and he explained the challenge Labour faces | :28:57. | :28:58. | |
It is easier for other parties, if you are the Greens or the | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
Liberal Democrats you're essentially fishing in the 48% pool. | :29:04. | :29:05. | |
If you are Ukip, you are fishing in the 52% pool. | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
Labour is trying to do something much harder, | :29:10. | :29:11. | |
which is to try and speak for the whole country, | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
and by the way, that is another part of | :29:15. | :29:16. | |
Our attack on Theresa May, part of it is she's | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
Ignoring the verdict going into this, saying, | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
let's overturn it, looks like ignoring the 52%. | :29:27. | :29:28. | |
By the way, there is more that unites Remainers | :29:29. | :29:34. | |
and Leavers than might first appear, because they share common | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
concerns about the way the country is run. | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
Joining me now is the Shadow Health Secretary, Jon Ashworth. | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
Welcome to the programme. Alastair Campbell told me on the BBC on | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
Thursday that he is fighting to reverse the referendum result. Ed | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
Miliband says that Remain needs to accept the result, come to terms | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
with it. Who is right? We have to accept the referendum result. I | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
campaigned passionately to remain in the European Union. The city I | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
represent, Leicester, voted narrowly to remain in the European Union. | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
Sadly the country did not. We cannot overturn that and be like kinky | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
nude, trying to demand the tide go back out. We have to accept this | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
democratic process. We all voted to have a referendum when the relevant | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
legislation came to Parliament. How bad will the local elections before | :30:34. | :30:41. | |
Labour? Let us see where we get to on election night when I am sure I | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
will be invited on to one of these types of programmes... The election | :30:48. | :30:56. | |
date, the following day. But it does look like you will lose seats across | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
the board in England, Scotland and Wales. What did you make of what | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
Steve Richards said about the impact on Jeremy Corbyn's leadership? We | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
have to win seats, we cannot fall back on the scales suggested. No, | :31:10. | :31:17. | |
your package was right, it tends to be Tory areas, but generally, we | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
have to be winning in Nottinghamshire, Lancashire, those | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
types of places because they contain a lot of the marginal constituencies | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
that decide general elections. The important places in the elections | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
are towns like Beeston, towns you have not heard of, but they are | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
marginal towns in marginal swing constituencies. We have to do well | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
in them. We will see where we are on election night but my pretty is to | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
campaign hard in these areas over the next few weeks. Even people who | :31:52. | :31:59. | |
voted Labour in 2015, they prefer Theresa May to Mr Corbyn as Prime | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
Minister, a recent poll said. Isn't that extraordinary? I have not seen | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
that. I will look it up. It was you Government. -- YouGov. It is | :32:11. | :32:17. | |
important we win the trust of people. You are not winning the | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
trust of people who voted for you in 2015. We have to hold onto people | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
who voted for us in 2015 and we have to persuade people who voted for | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
other parties to come to us. One of the criticisms I have of the debate | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
that goes on in the wider Labour Party, do not misunderstand me, I am | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
not making a criticism about an individual, but the debate you see | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
online suggests that if you want to get people who voted Conservative to | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
switch to Labour it is somehow a betrayal of our principles, it was | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
not. Justin Trudeau said Conservative voters are our | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
neighbours, our relatives. We have to persuade people to switch from | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
voting Conservative to voting Labour as well as increasing our vote among | :33:08. | :33:15. | |
nonvoters and Greens. It seems like you have a mountain to climb and the | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
mountain is Everest. Another poll, I am not sure if you have seen this, | :33:20. | :33:25. | |
in London, the Bastian of Labour, the Bastian of Remain, Mr Corbyn is | :33:26. | :33:35. | |
less popular than even Ukip's Paul Nuttall. That is beyond | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
extraordinary! I do not know about that. The most recent set of | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
elections in London was the mayoral election where the Labour candidate | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
city: won handsomely. He took the seat of a conservative. We took that | :33:51. | :33:57. | |
of a conservative. It was a year ago. We did well then. You had an | :33:58. | :34:09. | |
anti-Jeremy Corbyn candidate. I think he nominated Jeremy Corbyn, | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
from memory. We have not got elections in London but our | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
elections are in the county areas and the various mayoral elections... | :34:17. | :34:27. | |
What about the West Midlands? In any normal year, mid-term, as the | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
opposition, Labour should win the West Midlands. John Curtis says it | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
is nip and tuck. It has always been a swing region but we want to do | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
well, of course. We want to turn out a strong Labour vote in Dudley, | :34:42. | :34:48. | |
Northampton, those sorts of places. They are key constituencies in the | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
general election. Does Labour look like a government in waiting to you? | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
What I would say is contrast where we are to what the conservative | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
garment is doing. I asked you about Labour, you do not get to tell me | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
about the Conservatives. Does it look like a government in waiting to | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
you? Today we are exposing the Conservatives... Reminding people | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
the Conservatives are breaking the pledge on waiting times of 18 weeks | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
so lots of elderly people waiting longer in pain for hip replacements | :35:23. | :35:29. | |
and cataract replacements. Yesterday the Housing spokesperson John Healey | :35:30. | :35:31. | |
was exposing the shortcomings in the Help to Buy scheme. The education | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
spokesperson has been campaigning hard against the cuts to schools. | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
Tom Watson has been campaigning hard against some of the changes the | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
Government want to introduce in culture. The Shadow Cabinet are | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
working hard to hold the Government's feet to the fire. Does | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
it look like a government in waiting? Yes. It took you three | :35:55. | :36:00. | |
times! There is a social care crisis, schools funding issue, a | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
huge issue for lots of areas, the NHS has just got through the winter | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
and is abandoning many of its targets. You are 18 points behind in | :36:10. | :36:17. | |
the polls. We have to work harder. What can you do? The opinion polls | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
are challenging but we are a great Social Democratic Party of | :36:24. | :36:28. | |
government. On Twitter today, lots of Labour activists celebrating that | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
the national minimum wage has been in place for something like 16 years | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
because we were in government. Look of the sweeping progressive changes | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
this country has benefited from, the NHS, sure start centres, an assault | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
on child poverty, the Labour Party got itself in contention for | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
government. I entirely accept the polls do not make thrilling reading | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
for Labour politicians on Sunday morning, but it means people like me | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
have to work harder because we are part of something bigger than an | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
individual, we are in the business of changing things for the British | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
people and if we do not do that, if we do not focus on that, we are | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
letting people down. Is Labour preparing for an early election | :37:10. | :37:17. | |
question Billy burqa? Reports in the press of a war chest as macro for an | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
early election? The general election coordinator called for a general | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
election when Theresa May became Prime Minister. We are investing in | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
staff and the organisational capability we need. By the way, the | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
Labour Party staff do brilliant work. A bit of nonsense on Twitter | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
having a go at them. They do tremendous work. Whenever the | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
election comes, they will be ready. Jon Ashworth, thank you. | :37:45. | :37:52. | |
Hi, I'm Natalie Graham and this is The Sunday Politics | :37:53. | :38:07. | |
Coming up later, we have been out and about in Canterbury, | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
And we have been asking people there what they think | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
Joining me in the studio today are Peter Kyle, | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
the Labour MP for Hove and Portslade, and Diane James, | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
formerly of Ukip, but now sitting as an independent MEP for the | :38:21. | :38:22. | |
South East. Welcome to you both. | :38:23. | :38:29. | |
Now, Diane was briefly the leader of Ukip last year, for 18 days. | :38:30. | :38:32. | |
She took everyone by surprise when she stood down, | :38:33. | :38:34. | |
saying she "didn't have sufficient authority or support | :38:35. | :38:36. | |
of her colleagues to implement what she thought was necessary". | :38:37. | :38:38. | |
Since she left the party, its leader Paul Nuttall failed | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
to win the Stoke by-election and, last week, the party's | :38:42. | :38:43. | |
only MP Douglas Carswell followed Diane's lead, | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
declaring himself an Independent last weekend. | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
So, this is the first chance we have had to talk to you about all that. | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
You said at the time it was personally and | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
Do you regret standing as leader now? | :39:00. | :39:02. | |
No, I do not regret standing as leader. | :39:03. | :39:04. | |
I would have loved to have continued, but I made it very plain | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
in my statement why I stood down, why I relinquished the leader-elect. | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
Remember, I did not actually finalise everything. | :39:11. | :39:12. | |
I would have loved to have continued, | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
but it was not going to be possible and Ukip is now going to go on | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
Again, it has been a few interesting months for the party | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
At the time of your departure, Nigel Farage | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
said your standing down was "an act of irrational selfishness". | :39:29. | :39:30. | |
I met with Nigel only a couple of weeks ago, in Strasbourg. | :39:31. | :39:39. | |
I understand why he said those words. | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
Ukip is effectively his baby and he is very protective of it. | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
He had hoped to hand over the mantle of leadership to me. | :39:48. | :39:50. | |
There it is, in terms of his statement. | :39:51. | :39:58. | |
Words are words and I am a much stronger person | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
then having that sort of thing hurt me. | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
You stood down as leader, but then decided to leave the party. | :40:06. | :40:07. | |
Why do that? That is quite a different thing. | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
Well, I think the issue for me was very much that I wanted | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
Paul to have a fresh start and a fresh sea and, | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
effectively, aa fresh environment to operate in as the new leader. | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
He did not need me there in the background and, potentially, | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
a lot of individuals, both in the media and members, | :40:29. | :40:30. | |
such as those in the NEC, constantly saying, | :40:31. | :40:32. | |
"Would Diane have done that? Would Nigel have done that?" | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
He has got a very good relationship with Nigel. | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
He did not need his predecessor there, | :40:40. | :40:40. | |
almost haunting him, in the background. | :40:41. | :40:43. | |
But again, he has had an interesting time ever since | :40:44. | :40:45. | |
You described Ukip as an opposition party in waiting when you took | :40:46. | :40:51. | |
It is not exactly like that now, now that it has lost its only MP, | :40:52. | :40:59. | |
Is it a party in decline, now that you are on the outside? | :41:00. | :41:07. | |
I do not think it is a party in decline. | :41:08. | :41:09. | |
I actually spoke to the media quite a bit the day | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
With all due respect to my colleague here | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
from the House of Commons representatives of the Labour | :41:16. | :41:17. | |
Party, I made the point that, for Labour to stop Paul, | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
personally, to stop Paul Nuttall, the leader of a political | :41:21. | :41:22. | |
opposition party, and to stop Ukip, it was worthwhile sacrificing | :41:23. | :41:25. | |
Copeland, which I think the strategy was. | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
As that is not in this area, we are not going to dwell on that. | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
Are you saying losing was all part of the strategy? | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
No, for Labour, it was all about stopping him in that | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
Surely that is what by-elections are all about? | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
But I feel I could explain, or give an explanation, as to why | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
Paul and Ukip did not take that by-election. | :41:52. | :41:53. | |
No, I don't think it is. No, I don't think it is. | :41:54. | :41:58. | |
What I do believe is happening is an evolution, in terms | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
If you go back to the Coalition, for example, the referendum result. | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
You can look at the general election. | :42:06. | :42:07. | |
And there is a need for an alternative political voice. | :42:08. | :42:18. | |
If you go back to just this Tuesday, with some of the programming | :42:19. | :42:21. | |
on the BBC, in particular, and Andrew Neil's programme, | :42:22. | :42:23. | |
who would have thought that three political party leaders would | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
have been interviewed after the Prime Minister | :42:27. | :42:27. | |
Diane, your actions speak very differently to your words. | :42:28. | :42:40. | |
You are talking about being an alternative political | :42:41. | :42:42. | |
voice, but you cannot really do that being an independent. | :42:43. | :42:44. | |
You have left to become an independent and the only | :42:45. | :42:46. | |
Ukip MP has left to become an independent. | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
All the people in leadership roles are moving away | :42:52. | :42:52. | |
from the party, so how can you become an alternative voice? | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
You say you want to be an alternative voice | :42:56. | :42:57. | |
Well, thank you for the interruption. | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
But let us look at what is happening, in terms of | :43:01. | :43:03. | |
I don't think it is necessarily going to be political parties. | :43:04. | :43:07. | |
Almost every, shall we say, political party, seems | :43:08. | :43:09. | |
to have a shadow, in terms of the movement. | :43:10. | :43:11. | |
are going to have amovement shadowing them. | :43:12. | :43:19. | |
are going to have a movement shadowing them. | :43:20. | :43:21. | |
I'll talk to Peter now about the nature of opposition. | :43:22. | :43:23. | |
Whether or not Ukip look like an opposition party in waiting, | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
there have been a few times recently when | :43:27. | :43:27. | |
the Labour Party do not exactly like the official opposition. | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
What it seems like is that the people | :43:31. | :43:32. | |
holding the government's feet to the fire over a range of issues, | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
whether it is national insurance contributions | :43:36. | :43:36. | |
of fairer schools funding, is Conservative backbench MPs, | :43:37. | :43:38. | |
We do live in very strange political times, but the Labour Party does | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
We are a broad movement and we are a significant force, both in | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
Parliament and up and down the country, running | :43:49. | :43:49. | |
We are a serious political force and we are broadly moving in | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
the direction of delivering fairness and that we are speaking up for... | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
But Theresa May is not very scared of you, is she? | :44:02. | :44:03. | |
She laughs when Jeremy Corbyn asks something at Prime | :44:04. | :44:05. | |
She is more scared of her own backbenchers, | :44:06. | :44:08. | |
you might argue, than the people sitting opposite. | :44:09. | :44:17. | |
What I do agree with in your analysis, and I do want to | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
be really open about this, is that we do live in very strange | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
political times, in that the referendum was | :44:25. | :44:25. | |
delivered because a very small number of MPs in the Tory party, | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
in a governing party that had no majority at all, | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
because it was in coalition, they basically | :44:32. | :44:38. | |
bullied Cameron and Osborne into delivering the referendum. | :44:39. | :44:40. | |
So, a small number of conservatives have a | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
disproportionate impact on the way the government is acting | :44:43. | :44:44. | |
That is the weirdness in British politics and political | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
discourse right now. That is where the nub of it is. | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
And what I find strange, if you don't mind me | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
saying, is look at Gisela Stuart - a prominent Labour MP and prominent | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
Six MPs out of 230. I would say that was unanimous. | :44:57. | :45:02. | |
So, after months of debate and discussion, the government | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
invoked Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty this week, | :45:08. | :45:09. | |
kick-starting talks on the terms of Brexit. | :45:10. | :45:11. | |
So, as we embark on negotiations, what matters most to people | :45:12. | :45:13. | |
Bhavani Vadde went to Canterbury, to gauge the mood. | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
This medieval gatehouse used to mark the separation of Canterbury | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
This week, the Prime Minister triggered the start of | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
negotiations to another historic separation - | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
that of Britain's divorce from the European Union. | :45:30. | :45:32. | |
The Article 50 process is now underway. | :45:33. | :45:34. | |
And in accordance with the wishes of the British people, | :45:35. | :45:36. | |
the United Kingdom is leaving the European Union. | :45:37. | :45:38. | |
This is an historic moment from which there can be no | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
So, if they had the chance, what would voters in the South | :45:42. | :45:52. | |
East say to Theresa May at this historic moment? | :45:53. | :45:58. | |
Morning. Hi. | :45:59. | :46:11. | |
So, in terms of the South East, what should the Prime Minister | :46:12. | :46:20. | |
be prioritising in these talks with the EU? | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
We are taking that question to the streets of Canterbury. | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
The referendum result here closely mirrored the way | :46:30. | :46:30. | |
So, what are people's thoughts this week? | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
Well done, Mrs May! Well done! | :46:38. | :46:43. | |
None of the politicians know what they are doing. | :46:44. | :46:45. | |
The fisheries have had a very hard time of it from Europe. | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
They just need clarification, to get their fishing fields back again. | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
Please let me feel secure and let me finish my | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
Well, I would say, "Theresa, go ahead." | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
She has triggered Article 50 this week. | :47:11. | :47:23. | |
Is this not important for the South East? | :47:24. | :47:25. | |
This is quite a rich part of the world. | :47:26. | :47:27. | |
You can see in the street today, thousands of tourists come | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
here, spending money, in Canterbury. Absolutely no difference. | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
She is saying she's going to be making this deal for everybody. | :47:35. | :47:37. | |
But I bet she is not going to make it for everybody. | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
It will be just for the 'Euro-septics'. | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
You have got to sort out the ports, Theresa, OK? | :47:46. | :47:47. | |
There's a lot of agriculture around here. | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
There is a lot of Polish, Latvian - Eastern European people. | :47:54. | :47:56. | |
When it comes to all these people not being allowed in, the farmers | :47:57. | :47:59. | |
The notion that may be harder in the future to travel | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
to the Continent and live on the Continent is a bit | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
So, that is the word on the street, and this politics professor, | :48:09. | :48:12. | |
who teaches in Canterbury, believes that, amongst other things, | :48:13. | :48:14. | |
the issues of border security, what will replace | :48:15. | :48:16. | |
the Common Agricultural Policy and immigration will be key | :48:17. | :48:18. | |
I think one of the things MPs in the South East have to make | :48:19. | :48:27. | |
clear is that there are, sort of, collective | :48:28. | :48:29. | |
South East interests which are different from the | :48:30. | :48:31. | |
Absolutely crucially, it does have this border aspect and | :48:32. | :48:40. | |
it does bear a lot of the consequences of whatever | :48:41. | :48:42. | |
the relationship is with France, for example, | :48:43. | :48:44. | |
with what we have in place, for instance, with regard to | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
The people we spoke to in Canterbury still seem polarised, even though | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
the formal process of leaving the EU has now started. | :48:54. | :48:55. | |
I will ask you first, Peter, how do you feel | :48:56. | :49:08. | |
I really want to get stuck into this debate, | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
because there are massive issues at stake. | :49:14. | :49:15. | |
The first priority for me is that we make sure we hold | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
to government's feet to the fire on trade. | :49:20. | :49:21. | |
There is no institutional memory in our country | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
any more of trading with the EU outside of the EU. | :49:26. | :49:27. | |
Last year, we had massive tailbacks trying to | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
The conservative estimate is that there will be five times | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
more border crossings once we leave the single market. | :49:39. | :49:40. | |
The government has promised that what comes next | :49:41. | :49:42. | |
and I am quoting verbatim - "exactly the same as we have now". | :49:43. | :49:51. | |
They have to deliver on that, because the stakes are incredibly | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
high for our economy here, particularly in the South East, | :49:55. | :49:56. | |
Diane James, I will ask you the same question. | :49:57. | :50:01. | |
How did you feel when Article 50 was finally triggered? | :50:02. | :50:04. | |
I am pleased, but I am almost rather anxious, | :50:05. | :50:06. | |
in a way, because the debate that is starting is very much | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
more of Project Fear, particularly from | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
the EU at the moment. Project Revenge, Project Penalise. | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
Penalise the UK for even having the temerity | :50:19. | :50:19. | |
Is that not what you are accusing Peter of when he raises concerns? | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
I have looked at the six points that the Labour Party have | :50:25. | :50:32. | |
announced, in terms of, if you like, their checks - | :50:33. | :50:34. | |
I looked at some of them and I thought, | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
well, it ignores the UK's acknowledged lead on | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
There are other aspects for me that show clearly that | :50:42. | :50:49. | |
the Labour Party is committed to remaining in the European Union | :50:50. | :50:52. | |
and will not be supporting the government. | :50:53. | :50:54. | |
That raises another question for me, which is what are my Labour MEP | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
colleagues going to be doing in Brussels? | :50:58. | :50:59. | |
Are they going to be siding with the EU, rather than | :51:00. | :51:01. | |
Everything you have said is the politics of grievance. | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
Now, it is your job to go ahead and deliver it. | :51:08. | :51:12. | |
You cannot sit here and say, we have triggered this | :51:13. | :51:14. | |
divorce, we want the other party to sit back and roll to one side and | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
Of course they're going to negotiate heart. I expect you as a pioneer of | :51:19. | :51:39. | |
the position we are endowed not to sit here and complain. I am not | :51:40. | :51:49. | |
complaining. I am criticising the positioning the European Union has | :51:50. | :51:58. | |
taken up until now. That we are going to institute thesis and more | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
checks for people crossing the Channel. These are the exact same | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
threats that we have made. This was not mentioned that the Labour Party | :52:11. | :52:21. | |
have said. It is not even something they can agree on. If we make big | :52:22. | :52:33. | |
promises to the public that leaving the United Kingdom -- European Union | :52:34. | :52:37. | |
will make big changes to immigration, to fisheries. The | :52:38. | :52:47. | |
government have said they did not want to restrict the labour going to | :52:48. | :52:54. | |
our economy. The majority of that comes from and with the European | :52:55. | :53:02. | |
Union. They did say last week immigration local up-and-down | :53:03. | :53:10. | |
according to our economic needs. It is a clear message of what people | :53:11. | :53:19. | |
accept is the issue of control. I am not a member of the Conservative | :53:20. | :53:29. | |
Party. What I want to see is a programme which interacts with | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
sectors of industry to actually resolve the numbers we need, the | :53:36. | :53:41. | |
expertise we need and the amount of seasonal workers we need. If the | :53:42. | :53:49. | |
public understand that, I think the numbers then start to dilute. We are | :53:50. | :53:58. | |
going to stick with Brexit. As the Brexit negotiations progress, | :53:59. | :54:00. | |
they will be scrutinised in detail by the public, | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
MPs, and experts from all In Parliament, a special | :54:04. | :54:05. | |
Select Committee has been set up to look in detail at the work | :54:06. | :54:08. | |
being done by the government Their first report was due to be | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
published this week, but has been delayed, | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
after a group of MPs walked out because, in their view, | :54:16. | :54:17. | |
the tone of the report One of those MPs is | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
the Conservative, Maria Caulfield. She joins us now from Newhaven | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
in her constituency. So, what happened at that meeting? | :54:24. | :54:25. | |
Did you storm out? The committee has already published | :54:26. | :54:48. | |
two reports. We asked the government to produce a white paper over the | :54:49. | :54:52. | |
negotiations with the European Union. A second report has called | :54:53. | :55:05. | |
for the likes of European nationals to be Peter Wrekenton guaranteed. We | :55:06. | :55:13. | |
have produced two reports. Both of has seen action. We have got the | :55:14. | :55:21. | |
third due out. That is looking at the White Paper produced in | :55:22. | :55:28. | |
scrutinising, so I cannot reap report on alert at the moment. It | :55:29. | :55:35. | |
was just the speculation as to whether you had walked out. This is | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
just the beginning, so to do that at the stage does not board well. Most | :55:40. | :55:48. | |
of meetings are in public. The reports can be read as well. I | :55:49. | :55:56. | |
cannot comment on Private meetings within the committee and the | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
discussions before we produce the report. We want the MPs to come | :56:04. | :56:10. | |
together to hold the government to account to get the best possible | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
deal for the United Kingdom. I can confirm that the third report will | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
be published on Tuesday. You have been talking to people within the | :56:22. | :56:33. | |
constituency. Are you concerned that people will be disappointed with the | :56:34. | :56:36. | |
negotiations? I do not think they will be disappointed. We want the | :56:37. | :56:48. | |
government to make a stand on the status of the European Union | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
nationals living of and we want a commitment on alert. We will be | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
pushing to make sure that the British farming and fishing sectors | :57:00. | :57:08. | |
are supported. We also have a lot of people working in education and | :57:09. | :57:17. | |
universities. There is a favourite very diverse range of people with in | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
this constituency. That is why I will be holding a number of clinics | :57:22. | :57:27. | |
for people to come and express their concerns and their wishes to make | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
sure that the is heard. Thank you for joining us. You really remain MP | :57:33. | :57:51. | |
any remain constituency. Hope all you represent your constituency? Is | :57:52. | :57:54. | |
it your job to frustrate the government? I think we have to go | :57:55. | :58:07. | |
through all this old legislation. These are very complicated. People | :58:08. | :58:17. | |
are desperately worried that the biggest export market is about to | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
disappear. We have to be really careful. We need to understand the | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
consequences of everything before we do it. I just want to make sure we | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
do it right. Diane, in practical terms, though that you Ukip does not | :58:36. | :58:45. | |
even have an MP, who do they hold the government fee to the fire? If | :58:46. | :58:56. | |
people were to compare the six points which came from Ukip, which | :58:57. | :59:10. | |
were much more realistic. But they cannot put any pressure in | :59:11. | :59:16. | |
Parliament on personal MPs. I appreciate that. But they still | :59:17. | :59:19. | |
think they have to be listened to. And now it is time for some | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
of the other news you may have missed in Sixty Seconds, | :59:25. | :59:28. | |
with Rajdeep Sandhu. A property mogul is being | :59:29. | :59:29. | |
investigated by Kent Police and the Equality and Human Rights | :59:30. | :59:31. | |
Commission over Fergus Wilson, who owns hundreds | :59:32. | :59:33. | |
of buy-to-let properties in Kent said he did not want "coloured | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
people renting his homes He says it is an economic decision, | :59:38. | :59:39. | |
based on cleaning costs. At the end of the day, | :59:40. | :59:43. | |
it is up to me who goes The Equality and Human | :59:44. | :59:46. | |
Rights Commission said his remarks were "truly | :59:47. | :59:51. | |
disgusting and unlawful". A cash-strapped primary school | :59:52. | :59:52. | |
is asking parents to donate St John's Primary School | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
in Crowborough held a non-uniform Instead of donating to charity, | :59:56. | :59:58. | |
pupils were asked to bring The headteacher said schools | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
were under huge financial strain. A report by the Chief Inspector | :00:03. | :00:09. | |
of Prisons says there has been an increase in people | :00:10. | :00:11. | |
being detained by Sussex Police It says limited access to hospital | :00:12. | :00:13. | |
beds result in too many vulnerable Sussex Police says their focus | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
is on keeping people safe. That is all we have got time | :00:18. | :00:29. | |
for from the South East this week. My thanks to our guests for today, | :00:30. | :00:32. | |
Diane James and Peter Kyle. We are off air for a couple of | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
weeks, as Parliament is in recess. We will be back after Easter, | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
with all the political news and chat in the South East. | :00:40. | :00:41. | |
Bye for now. So, what will be the effect | :00:42. | :01:05. | |
of new tax and benefit changes Will the Government's grand | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
trade tour reap benefits? And are the Lib Dems really | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
going to replace Labour, To answer that last question, | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
I'm joined by from Salford by the Lib Dem MP, Alistair | :01:14. | :01:26. | |
Carmichael. Michael Fallon sirs the Lib Dems | :01:27. | :01:37. | |
will replace Labour. How long will it take? We will have to wait and | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
see. Anyone who thinks you can predict the future is engaged in a | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
dodgy game. I have been campaigning with the Liberal Democrats in | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
Manchester... You must not mention... You know the by-election | :01:54. | :02:01. | |
rules. It is only an illustration. Across false ways of the country, | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
the Liberal Democrats are back in business -- across whole swathes of | :02:06. | :02:14. | |
the country. Part of the reason why we are getting a good response is | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
because the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn has taken such a | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
self-destructive path. Even if you do pretty well in the local | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
elections, it you have to make up lost ground from the time you did | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
very well in previous times, you used to have 4700 councillors. It | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
will take you a long while to get back to that. You will get no | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
argument from me that we have a mountain to climb. What I'm telling | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
you is, and if this is not just in this round of elections, it is in | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
the other by-elections in places like Richmond, and in by-elections | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
write the length and breadth of the country since last June, the Liberal | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
Democrats are taking seats from the Labour Party under Conservative | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
Party, and not just in Brexit phobic areas. Not just in Remain areas. But | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
in places like Sunderland as well which voted very heavily for Brexit. | :03:14. | :03:19. | |
In fact, that vote was in large part as well a protest against the way in | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
which the Labour Party really has taken these areas for granted over | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
the years. That is why the ground is fertile for us. In the local | :03:31. | :03:33. | |
elections which is what we are discussing today, why would anybody | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
vote for the Liberal Democrats if they believed in Brexit? Mr Farren | :03:40. | :03:46. | |
has said he wants to reverse works. If you are Brexit supporter and you | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
are considering how to cast your vote, first of all, I think you will | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
be looking at the quality of representation you can get for your | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
local area and you are right, we have a lot of ground to recoup from | :04:00. | :04:08. | |
previous elections, we lost 124 seats, communities have now had a | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
few years to reflect on the quality of service they have been able to | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
get and they have missed the very effective liberal Democrat | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
councillors they have had. This is not just about whether you are a | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
believer or remainer, ultimately, that is an issue we are going to | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
have to settle and we will settle it not in the way the Government is | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
having by dictating the terms of the debate, but by bringing the whole | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
country together. I think that is something you can only do if, as we | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
have suggested, you give the people the opportunity to have a say on the | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
deal when Theresa May eventually produces it. The only way you could | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
really replace Labour in the foreseeable future would be if a big | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
chunk of the centre and right of the Labour Party came over and join due | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
in some kind of new social democratic alliance. -- joined you. | :05:04. | :05:11. | |
There is no sign that will happen? I do not see whether common purpose is | :05:12. | :05:14. | |
anymore holding the Labour Party together. That is for people in the | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
Labour Party to make their own decisions. Use what happened to the | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
Labour Party in Scotland. -- you saw. Politics moved on and left them | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
behind and they were decimated as a consequence of that. So was your | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
party. It is possible the same thing could happen to the Labour Party and | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
the rest of the UK. Politics is moving on and they are coming up | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
with 1970s solutions to problems in 2017. Alistair Carmichael, thanks | :05:46. | :05:53. | |
for joining us. Let us have a look at some of the tax and benefit | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
changes coming up this week. The tax changes first of all. The personal | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
allowance is going to rise to ?11,500, the level at which you | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
start to pay tax. The higher rate threshold, where you start to play | :06:09. | :06:15. | |
at 40%, that will rise from currently ?43,400, rising up to 40 | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
5000. -- pay. Benefit changes, freeze on working age benefits, | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
removal of the family element of tax credits and universal credit, that | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
is a technical change but quite an impact. The child element of tax | :06:35. | :06:41. | |
credit is going to be limited to two children on any new claims. The | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
Resolution Foundation has crunched the numbers and they discovered that | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
when you take the tax and benefit changes together, 80% go to better | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
off households and the poorest third or worse. What help -- what happened | :06:58. | :07:06. | |
to help the just about managing? The Resolution Foundation exists to find | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
the worst possible statistics... It is not clear the figures are wrong? | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
They are fairly recent figures and I have not seen analysis by other | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
organisations. The Adam Smith Institute will probably have some | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
question marks over it. Nobody should be surprised a Tory | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
government is trying to make the state smaller... And the poor | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
poorer. The system is propped up by better off people and so it will be | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
those people who will be slightly less heavily taxed as you make the | :07:41. | :07:48. | |
state smaller. Theresa May will have to stop just talking about the just | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
about managing. And some of her other language and the role of the | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
government and the state when she sounded quite positive... She | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
sounded like a big government conservative not small government. | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
In every set piece occasion, she says, it is time to look at the good | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
the government can do. That is not what you heard from Mrs Thatcher. | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
Tony Blair and Gordon Brown would not have dared to say it either even | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
if they believed it. It raises a much bigger question which is, as | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
well as whether this is a set of progressive measures, the Resolution | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
Foundation constantly argued when George Osborne announced his budget | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
measures as progressive when they were regressive when they checked | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
out the figures, but also how this government was going to meet the | :08:41. | :08:44. | |
demand for public services when it has ruled out virtually any tax | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
rises that you would normally do now, including National Insurance. | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
There are a whole range of nightmare issues on Philip Hammond's in-tray | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
in relation to tax. The Resolution Foundation figures do not include | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
the rise in the minimum wage which has just gone under way. They do not | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
include the tax free childcare from the end of April, the extra 15 hours | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
of free childcare from September. Even when you include these, it does | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
not look like it would offset the losses of the poorest households. | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Doesn't that have to be a problem for Theresa May? It really is a | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
problem especially when her narrative and indeed entire purpose | :09:27. | :09:28. | |
in government is for that just about managing. What Mrs May still has | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
which is exactly a problem they have at the budget and the Autumn | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
Statement is that they are still saddled with George Osborne's | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
massive ring fences on tax cuts and spending. They have to go through | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
with the tax cut for the middle classes by pushing up the higher | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
rate threshold which is absolutely going to do nothing for the just | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
about managing. When they try to mitigate that, for example, in the | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
Autumn Statement, Philip Hammond was told to come up with more money to | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
ease the cuts in tax credits, came up with 350 million, an absolute... | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
It is billions and billions involved. Marginal adjustment. A | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
huge problem with the actual tax and benefit changes going on with what | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
Mrs May as saying. The only way to fix it is coming up with more money | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
to alleviate that. Where will you find it? Philip Hammond tried in the | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
Budget with the National Insurance rises but it lasted six and a half | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
days. I was told that it was one of the reasons why the Chancellor | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
looked kindly on the idea of an early election because he wanted to | :10:37. | :10:42. | |
get rid of what he regards as an albatross around his neck, the Tory | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
manifesto 2015, no increase in income tax, no increase in VAT, no | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
increase in National Insurance, fuel duty was not cut when fuel prices | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
were falling so it is hardly going to rise now when they are rising | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
again. This is why, I suggest, they end up in these incredibly | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
complicated what we used to call stealth taxes as ways of trying to | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
raise money and invariably a blow up in your face. Stealth taxes never | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
end up being stealthy. It is part of the narrative that budget begins to | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
fall apart within hours. You have to have sympathy, as Tom says, with | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
Philip Hammond. No wonder he would like to be liberated. The early | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
election will not happen. The best argument I have heard for an early | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
election. The tax and spend about at the last election was a disaster | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
partly because the Conservatives feared they would lose. Maybe they | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
could be a bit more candid about the need to put up some taxes to pay for | :11:45. | :11:51. | |
public services and it is very interesting what you picked up on | :11:52. | :11:53. | |
Philip Hammond because he is trapped. So constrained about... You | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
can also reopen the Ring fencing and spending and the obvious place to go | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
is the triple lock, OAP spending. Another case for an election. He | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
cannot undo the promise to that demographic. We will not get to 2020 | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
without something breaking. The Prime Minister, the trade secretary | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
and Mr Hammond, they are off to India, the Far East, talking up | :12:22. | :12:29. | |
trade with these countries, I do not know if any of you are going? Sadly | :12:30. | :12:36. | |
not. Will it produce dividends? The prime Minster is going somewhere | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
too. No, it will not, the honest answer. No one will do a trade deal | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
with us because we cannot do one because we are still in the EU and | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
they need to know what our terms will be with the EU first before | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
they can work out how they want to trade with us. This is vital | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
preparatory work. Ministers always go somewhere in recess, it is what | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
they do. We will not see anything in a hurry, we will not see anything | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
for two years. They have to do it. Whatever side of the joint you are | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
on, Brexit, remain, we need to get out there. -- the argument. We | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
should have been doing this the day after the referendum result. It is | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
now several months down the line and they need to step it up, not the | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
opposite. You can make some informal talks, I guess. You can say, Britain | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
is open for business. There is a symbolism to it. What a lot of | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
energy sucked up into this. Parliament is not sitting so they | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
might as well start talking. We have run out of energy and time. That is | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
it for today. We are off for the Easter recess, back in two weeks' | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
time. If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. Unless it is that | :13:51. | :13:52. | |
used to recess! -- Easter recess. Marine Le Pen has her eyes | :13:53. | :14:21. | |
on the French presidency. As she tries to distance herself | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
from her party's controversial past, we follow the money and ask, | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
"Who's funding her campaign?" I think I've died and gone to | :14:29. | :14:52. | |
heaven. Saluti. Chin-chin. So, can anybody speak Italian? | :14:53. | :15:01. | |
No. Non parlo italiano. Can ten Brits looking for | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
a new life start again? | :15:06. | :15:18. |