15/01/2012 Sunday Politics South West

And in the South West: The next big public sector pay row

- union's must have thought it couldn't get any worse, but the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1692 seconds

debate about local pay rates is Hello and welcome to the Sunday

Politics in the South West. Coming up: $NEWLINE The women who want the

right to ride, and the landowner who says their demands are

atrocious. To discuss that and much more,

we've brought together town and country in the form of Alison

Seabeck, Essex girl and Plymouth MP, and Somerset farmer Neil Parish, MP

for Tiverton and Honiton. Alison, what has your highlight

been of this first week? Well, appearing on the inaugural Abersoch

of the show of course! I very much hope the government will listen to

what has been said this week, that common sense has broken out at

Westminster. I was delighted that David Cameron has raised the issue

of having a referendum in Scotland as to whether they should remain

part of the Union. I am very much the Unionists and I think this is

where all the main parties of Westminster can get together and

say there are benefits of the United Kingdom, so that when we go

out to trade with the rest of the world, we are at the United Kingdom

without separate Scotland. Our embassies are promoting more and

more trade to the developing world. Let's bring the United Kingdom

together and not split is a part. Let's have the referendum straight,

in or out, and then we can talk about enhanced demolition after

that. The very first debate back at

Westminster this week focused on the Government's plan to look at

introducing local pay rates in the public sector. The present national

pay scale means public sector workers in a region like this one

tend to be much better off than their private sector equivalents.

According to the government, that damages private sector

competitiveness. Business organisations like the CBI agree,

but unions say the changes would downgrade the region to even more

of a low-wage economy. Tamsin Melville reports.

Public sector workers across the south-west were out in force in

November, striking over pensions and sending strong messages to the

government. George, if you weren't itching for a fight yesterday, you

will be today. Issues affecting public sector workers are always

keep in the south-west, where they make up more than one quarter of

the workforce. The 1,000 strikers that filled this wall represent

just a tiny fraction. In Cornwall alone it is estimated there are

50,000, and if you add in Devon, Dorset and Somerset, they around

300,000 - enough to fill the at 300 times. So when the Chancellor used

his Autumn Statement to announce a review of national pay rates for

public servants, local alarm bells were going off. In a low pay region

like the south west, it would seem the only way for public sector

wages would be down. Not a popular concept with those on the front-

line. I am doing the same job in carrying out the same

responsibilities, so why should I be paid any differently, whether it

is less or more than a counterpart who is expected to do exactly the

same thing as me? Do you think all that good teachers will think, why

should I be getting paid any less, and move somewhere else? It exactly.

I think particularly well-qualified pick -- teachers are going to be

snapped up by other areas. And why not? Unions representing people

like Stacey are furious. It's just another attack on pay and it will

be extremely divisive between public and private sector workers,

particularly between public sector workers to work around the country.

At all we were trying to get away from the fact that the south-west

was worse off than London and the south-east, I thought were trying

to narrow these gaps, not make them worse. But Institute for Fiscal

Studies research shows the South west has the biggest public-private

pay gap in England. Men working in the public sector here are likely

to earn around 8% more than men with similar skills in the private

sector. So do Ministers have a point that scrapping national pay

rates could be good for business and boost the economy in regions

that are over-dependent on the public sector? If what you've got

is a whole gang of roles in the public sector which are paid that

much more for very similar jobs, it just stews that market. So you

really can see why the government would think along these lines. It's

not just about teachers and nurses, it's about a whole plethora of

administrators and people who do similar jobs in the private sector.

That is why you need a much wider review. But at Westminster this

week, some MPs have been questioning had driving down pay

could possibly boost local economies. The Chancellor has asked

how it could be implemented and how it would work, and there is no

consideration of the overall economic impact of this proposal.

George Osborne has as the independent pay review bodies to

report back in July. Meanwhile, unions are warning public sector

workers won't see their wages go down without a fight.

Alison, surely everybody agrees we need to stimulate the private

sector. We need to stimulate the south-west, and I don't think

Westminster understands this region. If you give the importance of those

public sector salaries to this region, particularly cities like a

mad, if you were to reduce those salaries, it would have a

considerable negative effect. We have a large number of paid workers

not comparable with public sector workers at all. The reason why

Cornwall is a convergence area of objectives 1 and 2 is simply

because it is low wage. I genuinely think this really has to be

carefully thought through. Government policies impact in a

range of different ways. If we won the private sector to grow down

here, we have to have transport links. Government, if you are

looking at this, look at it very carefully. Labour introduced local

pay. Yes, and we didn't extend it. It was almost like the pilot. It

threw up a number of disparities and inequalities, but most

important for me is I don't think people in Westminster, whatever

government, understand the south- west economy well enough and they

do not understand how important some of those public sector jobs

and incomes are. Neil, a lot of businesses will be in favour of

this change. Tim Jones from the Business Council agrees with Alison,

he says if you give the economy of the region as a whole, this would

be under reasonable and devastating. You have to look at the whole

picture. There is an argument that paying the public sector more

drives private sector costs up, but we also live in an area where we

have high-priced houses, so I think what the review body has to look at

is not just the disparity between wages and the cost of living in the

south-west, and that is where Alison and I can agree on. If the

previous government started it with the Prison Service, that actually

look now and see what effect that has had, and seek where some

positive sides can be. But in the end if it is actually just going to

reduce overall salaries in the south-west, with people still

finding it difficult to get housing and accommodation, then I think we

have to be very careful. I think it's something that needs to be

looked at but are not sold on it one way or the other yet, because I

think we have to look at the impact right the way through.

When the last government introduced the so-called Right to Roam

legislation it was hailed by ramblers as a long-overdue victory

after more than a century of campaigning. Many landowners, of

course, took a rather different view. Conflict is now brewing again

in the green fields of Somerset as horse-riders attempt to reclaim

around 200 bridleways before the legal deadline expires. We sent

A call to action on Dartmoor. The reason? Public access to a disputed

right of way. The protest ultimately failed, but it showed

the depth of feeling when it comes to the countryside. Now, a plan by

South Somerset Bridleways Association to reinstate 200

rights-of-way has alarmed landowners. I don't it is very good,

what they've done. In fact, it is borderline atrocious. This

bridleway opened in 2009. It is on a disused railway, but there are

many historic bridleways and for Pat's -- footpads. Take this three-

mile track near Taunton, used by horse-riders. It is not officially

a right of way, but that could change, as an application has been

handed into reinstated. Time is running out. If bridleways on

claims on his struggle evidence by 2026, that is the closure date and

no-one will be able to claim a bridleway on their land. They

should still be able to do it on use evidence, but that is a

different matter. The challenge access groups is to get ways on to

definitive maps. Taunton Deane Bridleway Association has filed

over 200 applications. Others fear claims could top -- could cost

taxpayers in Somerset alone over �1 million. It doesn't cost anything

for users to put in applications, but it costs money to defend it. If

they don't, then what happens is potentially the claim could be

successful and the landowner would have a right of way which perhaps

shouldn't be there. So again costs landowners many tens of thousands

of pounds to defend a claim. reinstatement claim could take

years to evaluate and has disappointed landowners and farmers.

Just because something was there in the past, doesn't mean it is

appropriate use today. Farmers have changed, these farms are factory

floor. Their working environments, and some of the historic roots are

not always conducive with working practices. It would be far better

to look for negotiation. James Small, seem to be chairman of the

end you left, believes there should be compromised, with permissive

path. -- the NFU. Access is open and is being used by new

generations of course riders and cyclists already. They are seeing

the benefits. So what is more beneficial to the public, roots

that they can use that are safe where they can see the countryside,

or something that is seeing -- sitting in a dusty County Hall for

the next 20 years? Even those making claims admit the system is a

ludicrous and overly complex for all concerned. There is another

prizes which landowners can do which is dedicating the land as

bridleways. If they did that, it would cut out all of this procedure

that we have to go to. On the other hand, we feel it must be done

because we don't want to be in danger of future generations losing

the roots. Well, we heard from one Somerset landowner in the film

there. We have another one here. Do you agree with the farmer in the

film? Well, I am a farmer and I do agree because I think the idea we

must build on these permissive path, rather than this idea of historic

bridleways... It might be right through the middle of a bridleway.

If you're growing maize or crops, it is very difficult to reinstate

it there. It does it matter that you have to go round the edge of

the field now. So that is what worries me - it is far too rigid.

Better to go forward with co- operation with the landowners,

because in the wake -- end, that is the way for a party going to work.

If there is acrimony, there will always be problems. They say the

law works for the law-abiding, and I think that works for both sides

of this argument. I think we should get farmers and users of these

packs to gathers to get compromises and permissive paths. The idea of

forcing through lots of obsolete roots does not make sense to me.

Alison, you seem to be nodding. Do you agree? It's one of these

arguments which is polarising. In the build up to the Right to Roam,

the debates were very difficult at times. So I think there is some

scope in this a round permissive path ways. But equally, riders are

generally very responsible people, and they do use the land sensibly

in the main. Most of them will not go straight through a field. They

have enough intelligence not to. So there ought to be some progress

made, but clearly people have rights and there is a deadline, and

they should, I think, expressed their applications. But within that,

they ought to be scope for discussion and the offers from

local landowners to say, well, I would rather you didn't use this

big barbel open this it up so you can get from eight to be safely. --

from A to B. What worries me is when you try to move it that path,

there is always objection and it is difficult. So these pacts have to

be treated with more flexibility. That is what worries me.

It's time now for our round-up of the political week in 60 seconds.

The campaign to save though Portsmouth rescue helicopter

reached Downing Street. We have two diverse saving people who would be

drowned higher not been for the fact that the Portland helicopter

was then a matter of minutes. Embarrassment in Plymouth that the

City Council even discussed fights to fight back plans to fight crime

by limiting the number of foreign students in shops.

Another Plymouth politician asked the government to improve our

railways before extending high- speed rail to Scotland. When the

motorway is stopping at Exeter, we desperately need to increase a rail

connectivity to the rest of the country. And in North Devon, bin

men were told they need to work harder and stop throwing sickies.

The national average is 12 days here, not the 18 the we have been

talking about. Alison, you have a history of

working on maritime safety. This is a very specific issue. When you

have an issue like that as an MP, when do you let go and say, I am

furious about this but a decision has been made? It is a very

difficult decision to take, actually. Part of you will be

saying, I have to keep going with this, but you are right, you reach

a wall where you just can't take it any further. Whether it is an issue

like that or an issue for a constituent, there comes a point

where you actually have to step back and say, the decision has been

taken. I think this is the case with the coastguards, sadly.

think you should fight to the end. I'm a big supporter of digging in.

You are there to fight the corner, and I know whatever political party

you are, at the government makes a decision that may not be to your

liking. But my view is that you keep going, and some you win, some

you lose. But I know there comes a moment where that you think you're

wasting your time, but I think you should keep that fight going. The

railways, we have to get not only the main line down to Plymouth, but

we have to get the Waterloo to Honiton line. Lots of things can be

done to boost things in a constituency. I am always after

improvements to the motorway. I think we should and block the the

area around Stonehenge and worked northwards. There are times when

the legislation is there and you can't change it. So then it becomes

a matter of where to take the battle next a new start again,

perhaps coming at it from a different angle. With a different

set of ministers! What of his business in Plymouth this week? The

City Council has apologised and said it was an oversight that this

proposal was ever considered. Limiting the number of foreign

students in shops because that might be a way to reduce crime?

was a very poorly worded statement and clearly got quite a lot of

coverage. We are a city with lots of students but most of the people

apparently involved are sort of the 18-14 yards language students

coming over for a couple of weeks. They tend to go around in large

groups. Lots of shops will have signed up in London saying

"children, two at a time". The fact that this was identifying foreign

students actually sent a whole range of wrong messages out about

the city and it needed to be retracted. I think it was wrong

because in the end you have to make sure there you please those shops

properly. It does it matter who is doing a shoplifting, let's sort it

out. It does send a very bad message to those foreign students

that we are inviting into Plymouth quite legitimately for language

school. So it was one of those things which was appallingly badly

handled. What we actually want to get is more people to Plymouth,

more people in the West Country, but also those shopkeepers actually

want better policing and better security so that shoplifting

doesn't take place. So therefore I think singling out one individual