19/02/2012 Sunday Politics South West

In the South West... The Conservative councillors putting up

council tax. One Tory leader explains why his council has

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1717 seconds

Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South West. The burger van man

who says he may have to go back on the dole because the government

scheme which helped start his business isn't good enough. And to

discuss that and more, I'm joined by Plymouth Conservative MP Oliver

Colville and Labour Peer Larry Whitty. We have seen Council

deciding whether to put up council tax and the Government offered an

incentive not to do so. Do you think this is a good idea or

potentially stirring up problems? This is the right thing to do

because families at the moment are feeling the pinch in Plymouth and

we need to make sure that they will not be hit particularly badly and

that is why we need to keep all the costs down to the basic minimum.

Nobody wants to see the council tax go up? No, and people in the south-

west pay very high council tax but there seems to be a basic

contradiction in policy and I have said that we need to allow local

government to make up its own mind. Whereas, Eric Pickles, in favour of

localism, his overriding local autonomy and not allowing the local

councillors to set their own budgets and be answerable to their

electorate. A hold that thought. We welcome back to this. Welcome. This

is the news that various local authorities have been deciding

whether to increase council tax. Devon and Somerset Fire Authority

voted to put up their share of the tax, joining a group of rebels in

region defying considerable pressure from the government to

freeze it. Opting for an increase means rejecting the offer from Eric

Pickles of a one-off payment for the next financial year, equivalent

to a 2.5% rise. Our political editor, Martyn Oates, has been to

the South Hams to ask the council leader why he won't be accepting

the government's money. Follaton House, the seat of local government

in Devon and South Hams and in a knot is, Blair and Brown might have

held the country in the group but here, the Tories waited and longed

for a Conservative Prime Minister. It is a bitter irony that after all

the hoping and campaigning to get you a lot on to the government

benches, your own life as a local councillor can suddenly get more

uncomfortable. There is a greatly heightened risk that you will be

kicked out of power altogether over a protest vote nationally. Then,

helpful suggestions from Whitehall as to how you should manage your

financial affairs. Take the pronouncement from on high that all

councils have a moral duty to accept the government's one-off

payment and freeze council tax. Take the money and get costs down

and recognise that a lot of people haven't had a big increase in their

salary so show some respect to the population and stop trying to grab

money from hard-pressed families. Despite receiving that

characteristically forthright advice, this council has decided to

say no to the Government's money and yes to that 2.5% hike in

council tax. I talked to the council leader. The local

government minister has joined his bus in saying that council tax

increases like cures are a cake in the teeth for the taxpayer and they

treat the local electorate with contempt. Do you think so? We don't

believe so. We have taken a lot of consideration over whether to put

up council tax or take the pay freeze and we believe for the South

Hams, it is better in the long term to put council tax up and we

believe this way, we can maintain the services for some time to come.

Is there not a conflict between this year and the Government

because councils saying no to the government body is because it is a

one-off payment and that means you must register council tax in years

to come? Eric Pickles says the point of this is to reduce council

tax? We are the people making decisions, not the Government. The

Government are giving us an opportunity to do this in a

different way but we have this black hole after one year, when the

freeze disappears, how do we felt that? We asked Eric Pickles what he

thought of authorities putting up council tax and he says that this

is about councils lacking leadership and being controlled by

their officers. That his former colleagues to say. Members here in

the council work closely with offices and they give us the

evidence and we make decisions. I would argue with Eric Pickles on

those kind of points. It does look like the Council in Devon, which

will increase council tax, is the council it shares its chief

executive with you? On the face of it, you could say that that officer

has a lot to say about that but in this case, each can some it's a

decision and the officers give us evidence and members have come to

this view. You are a conservative, as is Eric Pickles. Is it helpful

for the Government to say you have complete freedom to do things like

this but then to make it very clear what they think you should do and

be rich in public for doing that? do not think that is right because

if they give us freedom, let's get on and do it and if they wanted to

control us like the previous government, so be it. They cannot

have this both ways. There can be little disagreement that a freeze

at Follaton House this year would tie the hands of councillors and

future. It this council decided to accept the government's 2.5%

payment, and then try to maintain that together with another 2.5%

increase the following year, that would mean a demanding an increase

of around 5% from the South Hams tax payer in one go. Under old

rules, that would run the risk of capping from Whitehall but now the

increase of anything more than 3.5% has to be subject to a local

referendum. Which could well make it politically impossible. Martin

boats reporting. Are you disheartened by this? To Tory

authorities turning down the government offer of the incentive

not to increase council tax and also the Farran authority in the

region, clearly concerned that they cannot do as much unless there is

more money. It is great that local people can make local decisions.

But there has been pressure from the Government. There has been an

incentive given to keep the council tax down and I am disappointed and

I hope that in Plymouth, Plymouth City Council will make sure that

they do not end up increase -- increasing the council tax because

that will impact on hard-working families. The worry is that in the

long term, this will impact anyway and if you make these cuts, in the

long term you will have less services? There is a lot of

evidence to suggest that whether budgets have been kept under

control, what happens is the local authorities make sure that they

took more with less money. That is a difficult argument but there is a

large amount of evidence that it that works, but its work well.

you think these councils can do more with less money? They had a

lot of time under Labour wildly spending money. Now this is coming

down. There must be some room for cuts to be made? There can be

efficiencies achieved in local government and it is obvious that

every council has to assess their own services and what they can --

their income base can take. But there seemed to be contradictions

that if you are really moving towards greater localism, you

cannot have Whitehall saying no further. And then finding other

money to compensate for obeying Whitehall. That seems to be a

contradiction in terms, it isn't localism or is it saving money.

this? It is an incentive, encouraging the authorities to make

sure that they do not go out and spend lots of money and make sure

that the end up keeping their council tax down and that is

actually what people want to see happen. Are you worried about the

fact that the Farrah Prunty rejected this? One so again, this

is a local decision. I am sad at the fact they have made this

decision but the other point is that over the years we have

expected local-authority used to do more and more. What I hope we can

start doing is allowed them to get on with things and not keep telling

them all the time what to do. does appear like that? I don't

think so. We're giving them an incentive to do this, if they want

to go down that route. If not, they have the right to say no. But don't

increase it too much, or they will face a referendum. Stay with us. On

Monday, we were told the banks had failed to meet targets for lending

to small businesses. On Wednesday, unemployment figures went up again

across the South West. Now small business leaders in the region say

the Government should be doing more to help people without a job set up

on their own. There is a scheme designed to encourage the

unemployed to turn themselves into entrepreneurs. It's called the New

Enterprise Allowance. But critics say it's often too little, too late.

Tamsin Melville reports. Business is not exactly sizzling for Stephen

Capewell. After spending eight months unemployed, he had high

hopes for this snack van near Truro. With a �1000 loan under the

Government's New Enterprise Allowance, or NEA, he set up in

November. But the winter months have been tough and he's struggling.

I just do not see how �1,000 today, how you can set up any viable

business on that. It used to be �5,000 and that has been cut. And

it is the main thing that should be helping people get back into work.

At its launch, critics said this scheme wasn't flexible enough.

Stephen's case seems to prove their point. My payments will finish in

10 weeks and if I am then back on benefits, that cost them hundreds

of pounds each week so what does not make sense. I do not understand

why. The DWP says it doesn't currently have any plans to raise

the amount provided by the NEA scheme. But it says it is

monitoring it and welcomes any feedback. So is what's on offer

really enough to keep people out of the job centre for good? As well as

the �1000 loan, the NEA offers a �1,275 allowance over 26 weeks and

mentoring support. But the voice of small businesses in Cornwall

believes it's what happens next that's the key. We are not saying

that this is a bad scheme but it does not go far enough. And that is

the thing. The danger is that that public money could be wasted on a

lot of very good businesses that just need more help and I think it

is looking up at next step which is important. And it's only available

to those claiming Jobseekers Allowance for six months or more,

which some finance experts say is the wrong approach. Let's get this

started sinner, let's catch those people who are prepared to take the

risk. Offer this on day one when somebody has become redundant work

cannot find a job. Say that we have this package of support. The owner

of this new shop in Tavistock says it wouldn't have existed if it

wasn't for the NEA. But crucially, he's also put in his own money and

got a charitable grant. And those administering the scheme in Devon

and Cornwall say they've helped create more than 100 local

businesses over a year. And with dozens more in the pipeline,

there's bound to be mixed results. The �1,000 is a catalyst which has

enabled lots of businesses to start. I am sure that a lot of businesses

would value more money. But �1,000 is enough to enable them to get off

the ground. Inevitably, there will be failures. Because a number of

businesses that start, significantly, a large amount of

them fail. The Government wants to see the creation of up to 40,000

new businesses under the NEA by 2013. Back at the snack van,

there's some doubts. �40,000. That's a big number. But without

the support, I cannot see this happening. Previous governments

have tried similar schemes to turn the unemployed into entrepreneurs.

Whether this one will work for people like Stephen remains a

matter of debate. You had the man, �2,000 isn't enough to get even a

business like a burger van off the ground and he needs more money.

Remember, the country's public finances are in a bad state and we

don't have lots of money to throw around. The fact that the

Government is doing this is a positive sign because what we need

to do is make sure that there is growth in the private sector

because that is where the growth welcome from and we have seen in

Plymouth that the public sector has had to take quite a big cut. We

need to make sure that the private sector has been incentivise. And

anything that can do that is important. Would it be a better

idea to offer less businesses more money? No, you need to spread the

core and all over the place. And let's remember that the budget is

taking place next month and that will have a very real impact

because it will be part of a package of activities that the

Government will be trying to do. Loughry, it is basically a good

idea? The burger van was struggling but the shop was doing well. It is

a good saying, this is needed? principle, yes. So is the loan

indemnity. I support both of these. But this isn't enough, it is part

of a bigger problem that there is no wonder coming forward to new

businesses and small businesses in general from the banks. Your first

point was that the banks have failed to meet their targets,

particularly small businesses. And of the banking system was working

properly, and we then provided the money, and yes, they had indemnity

from the Government but not lot of public money, so I think the real

problem is that banks and their attitude to small businesses.

important to get the bank's lending money and finding ways to make that

happen. But at the end of this, the Government is doing its part by

making sure that there will be this incentive to encourage people to go

out and develop their businesses. wonder if a lot of these businesses

which will be set up under the scheme will be service businesses,

burger vans, shops, and what is actually needed his investment in

education for things like high-end skills which will bring more

economic growth to erase in general? So that people can buy

their Burger? I had an interesting number of days in my constituency

and I first went to see the JobCentre here, and they were very

positive about what it is that we can do to try to turn ourselves

around. I then that a local person who was a local cook and he told me

about taking on an apprentice. Apprenticeships? They are important.

It is part of... Loughry, what do you make of this? Training is

important. Some apprenticeships are not actually sufficient in quality

to give you any way to set up your own business so unit to be

encouraged as an opera -- as an entrepreneur and also go to schools.

Now our regular round-up of the political week in 60 seconds. The

Eden Project's Tim Smit spoke out against the Government's decision

to cut subsidies for geothermal power. It is a total disgrace. It

is a betrayal of British technological power. Anti-nuclear

protestors occupied the site of the proposed Hinkley C reactor in

Somerset. A new anti-wind turbine protest group has been set up in

Cornwall. Is it right to put so much reliance on went when there

are other forms of renewable energy shortly going to be available?

Councillors in Torridge reckon they can manage without a chief

executive and say others should do the same. In some councils there

will be a need for a Chief Executive and in others, there is a

possibility that they could run without one. School leavers in

Cornwall have been told they could get a pioneering council bursary if

they stay in education. And figures from St Petroc's reveal the number

of people sleeping rough in Truro has more than doubled in the last

year. That Was the Week in 60 seconds. Lots of stories on energy.

We had 10 Smith from the Eden Project says the Government isn't

investing enough in geothermal energy. Should more be done? I do.

I am a very big supporter of all forms of green energy and it is the

biggest challenge for this generation of politicians worldwide

and if we get this wrong, the world isn't a pretty bad state. He is

right on geothermal. I do not like blanket opposition to wind farms,

although there will be some sites and support for Mika energy as well.

Anything that isn't fossil fuel, we should encourage. In terms of the

market environment and in government support. Why is the

Government not doing more? They do a significant about. By according

to terms with. We can't do enough for everybody but in the last

couple of weeks, if you remember, the climate change Minister came to

Bristol and announced that we would be the area for a number of marine

science parks as well. I thoroughly agree with Barry. We have got to

find an alternative way. German is investing heavily in its

geothermal? Should we not get in their early? There are a series and

a package of energy issues we need to do and we have to be very

careful because we need to reduce energy... We must stop you. That's