15/07/2012 Sunday Politics South West

This morning the Prime Minister has appealed to backbenchers and

In the south-west, the latest round in the battle between concrete and

countryside. And the cider makers who say minimum pricing could put

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1809 seconds

Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the south-west. Coming up.

Createding over 25... We will be reliving the moment a Devon

backbencher became the darling of the Parliamentary sketch writers.

With me this week are the Labour MP Alison Seabeck and the Liberal

Democrat peer John Burnett. Welcome back to both of you. John, you are

one Liberal Democrat who doesn't share your party's enthusiasm for

the Lord's reform bill. Do you any after this week it is off the

agenda in practise? I think that is very likely. I was delighted to see

the result in the Commons, and I said well done members of the House

of Commons. Independent MPs is something that the public don't

realise but it is growing a great deal. Some it is calls

rebelliousness n the last Labour administration we had a few

rebellions, and, in this, 2000 10 intake, there are some very

thoughtful, very independent MEPs of Parliament. You have always been

independently minded, what do you think the message the electorate,

the people you want to vote for you are getting from your leadership's

perceived obsession with this issue? It is going to be confused.

We have to put an end to that sharpish. We have two-and-a-half

years before the next general election, but the whole business of

the Lords reform, we, most of us support Lords reform but not these

proposals, it very much like the euro argument, I have opposed the

euro, and people were saying, oh, go into the euro, forget the

consequences. It's the same. It's the same mind set. Go into House of

Lords reform, forget the consequences. Alsong, you basically

support Lords reform, aren't you playing a potentially dangerous

game supporting the Tory rebels? What is important here, and John

has made the point very very clearly, and well, is that this is

a complex issue, it has to be properly thought through, it has to

be properly debated, and our big beef about the the way it was being

put forward was it was going to be pushed through, at enormous haste,

through the House of Commons, without a chance to really get

under some of the key worries that we have in the Commons about where

primacy will sit, you know, which House will be the twhaun is final,

takes the final decision and so on, those issues have to be properly

resolved. Otherwise we will end up with an entirery unproductive body,

that is constantly ping-ponging backwards and forward. I have to

ask you, do you share your Liberal Democrat colleague Lord Oakeshott's

sthrue the present House has a lot of "Has beens and deadbeats" in it.

Speaking for myself, probably yes. I really don't they is a helpful

view at all. There are wonderful people in the House of Lords,

distinguished, knowledgeable, learned. I mean, it is a pathetic

comment to make. That is the strength of the place. That is bun

of the things that needs to be taken forward. We need to ensure

you have that degree of experience, and ex feerz. We need to take the

programme forward. Now the Government says making more

decision locally is crucial to solving the affordable housing

skrie, but what happens when the locals are in bitter disagreement

as o whether new houses are needed or unsnes in west Cornwall a

planning row is heading for the high Court. It may be watched

carefully else are. -- elsewhere. This Cornish field may look

ordinary enough, but it is at the centre of a legal row that could

have implications for planning policy across the County, and

beyond. Thvingsfrpblgts is about a local community, -- this is about a

local community having what it want, localism rests in the community,

not in Truro County Hall. Last year, Cornwall Council gave the go-ahead

for 25 affordable homes to be built just outside the village near

Redruth, but the parish council is arguing show only half that number

is needed and it has won the right to a judicial review in the high

Court. All the evidence we have is no way are they going to fill 25

homes with people, from the village. The first basis for the legal

challenge is that Cornwall Council's policy at the time

indicated only round 12 homes should be bit on a slight this. The

second is that councillors based decision on data that exaggerated

local housing need. This is the application form for home choice,

the system the council uses to allocate social housing akos the

County. It's the use of that register as an argument for

development that is under scrutiny. The council says there is currently

25,000 people across Cornwall on the housing register. And it says

the number with a kebgsthoun the village easily justifies the 25 new

house, one of those who agrees is 30-year-old Nigel greenle. She

still living with his mum in the village, despite working full-time,

can't afford place of his own with his pregnant girlfriend. There is a

lot of people on the housing bloist have been here all their lives and

getting placed up Penzance or round further out I would be nice to be

back in the village. Lawyers for the parish council say not everyone

on the register is such a clear-cut case. Headline data is used, and

there is insufficient drilling down on it to establish what real local

need is based on that data. If we win, then Cornwall Council will

have to review its use of the data across the County. The parish

council says the community supports legal action, but one resident who

happens to be the councillor in charge of planning doesn't.

spend �6,000 money when there is weeds, play equipment that needs

repair, the pressure council ought to prioritise where they spend

their Monday. I don't believe as elected member for that area and

resident of the village, that the parish council is acting

responsibly. This new development is the kind of thing plans in the

village. The councillor says the housing register is an accurate

measure of need and homes like the are needed there. If the scheme is

lost in the high Court, 25 families, not people, 25 families with a

local connection will not have a house to live in in the village.

Cornwall Council is standing by its interpretation of the pre-policy,

and is consulting on a new strategy, with a target of 48,000 new homes

over the next 28 years. The review will be held in October and is

being watched closely. John, doesn't this just prove that the

more local you make the decision making, the fewer homes you get

built? I am afraid that is true. That is absolutely true. The facts

of the matter are there are is a big picture, in housing, and then

there is the local picture the big picture is, we have household

growths of 230,000 per year, last year planning permissions granted

were 90,000, houses built 100,000 - - 100,000, we are in a housing

crisis, the south-eastern we face up to that the the better. We

produced new planning policy, because of the NIMBY objections,

a NIMBY case in your view? I am not saying that, because I don't know

enough ant that, but I understand the councillor defending his area,

that is his job. It is not his job see the big picture that,st

Government's job to see the big picture, his job is to look after

his electorate, and his electorate, lect him to deal with matters such

as the matters that within councillors's purview, in Britain

at the moment we have a colossal need for housing, and if we don't

meet that need, it is going to cause more and more problem. We

have a rolled up problem. Alsong, I don't think you are going to

disagree, you a keen advocate of Labour's top down tar fete for

house building when you were in power. Find. That is why you a

strategic overview policy. If you take the figures from the south-

west, but in 2010 there were 20,000 homes being built, by the time we

got to 2011/12 you are down to 13,000 homes being built. We have a

need for 27 thousand new, we have 27 thousand new households being

formed in the South Westry year. There is an enormous short fall. We

have half the housing we need, and therefore, every decision that is

taken locally, which a cuts numbers in half again, is putting enormous

pressure on, and the localism bill, we were clear, sorry Martin to

persist on this, we were clear that the changes that were being brought

in by this Government on planning would lead to more action in the

Courts. This is the first exam thooful localism. You talk about

figures, the figures are hotly disputed -- disputed generally. Nez

are Government figures. What about the sthaition the housing waiting

list season an accurate gauge. People exaggerate their

circumstances to get on it. There is an issue about the accuracy but

a lot of Local Authorities... much of an issue A significant

issue, depends on the competency of the council. They may well, in all

honesty, have a jn win case, because if you look at Portsmouth

for example. Went through the list and they managed to take 5,000

households out of it. But that still left a significant demand

over and above the houses being built, so there is a job of work to

be done on some Local Authority housing lists to ensure they are

accurate. I can't comment on Cornwall, I don't know. It doesn't

get away from the fact we have a housing crisis. I try to be

objective. You weren't billing enough house, it's a finance

problem as well. We o have to get to grips with it. It's a major

problem for the poor young people of today. This week the Government

said it was delaying consultation on minimum pricing for alcohol.

That is small consolation for traditional cider makers in the

region. They claim it could be disastrous for their businesses. We

forced Matt to spend a day surrounded by cider, to find out

more. This should be a peaceful time of year for cider makers, it

is too late the prune and much too early to pick. Especially given the

rotten weather. All you do is keep an eye on the crop, and hope for

some sun. But cider makers in the south-west are worried about

proposals for a minimum unit price on the alcohol they sell. The same

to stop supermarkets and shops from offering very cheap booze, but

since traditionally made cider is quite strong, the new rule could

have a dramatic effect on price. This is a typical purchase from the

shop. This is a 20 litre box, that is often purchased for parties,

barbecue, sports events, this retails at �40. But if minimum

pricing were introduced, this is likely to set anybody back an extra

�30 or �35. Scotland the minimum unit price has been set at 50 pence.

A consultation exercise is under way to set a level for England. It

is expected to be round 40 pence a unit. But campaign groups like the

National Association of Cider makers say higher price also have

no effect on binge drinkers but could drive members out of business.

If this type of measure were introduced. People wouldn't come

out here, sales would drop and you think you have to close down. If

you don't get the sales. Because the figures being mentioned would

have such a great impact on customer viewpoint. That threat to

San cider makers is worrying some south-west MPs. We have had a

fantastic rensnans the cider industry, and aping growing in the

south-west. We have a lot of sales from farms direct, so it is cheap,

direct to the consume e and these prices would be hiked massively if

the Government went ahead and introduced minimum pricing, put a

lot of producers out of business. summer's evening in the resort of

knew I can. The Government estimated irresponsible drinking an

the soebstheeb so often follows costs the UK �21 billion a year,

and reducing that is the priority. If poem are selling ultra

Cheapsideer direct from the farm gates, then, yes, of course they

would be taken in by minimum pricing, but it won't be reason to

believe set pwhin mum price for one and another for anothers. But the

huge threat to cider makers is ultra cheap chemically based cider,

sold at 18 pence a unit in the supermarkets. Supporters of minimum

pricing say it is a crucial part of the plan to reduce anti-social

behaviour drinking, but the concerns still remains that an

entire cottage industry... Just like this can of cider could end up

down the drain. Alsorpbg I know you support minimum pricing, you saying

along with Sarah Wollaston that any pain the small cider producers have

to endure is a price worth paying for the broader Bennetts? I think

we should try minimum pricing. is what this means. No, I have come

from the camera event, which -- CAMRA event, a huge number of cider

producers there, and they do take a view, the people I was talking to,

that minimum pricing spwhouant a threat to their very specialised

and high quality... It is not really to pubs. I want to see

people back in pubs actually. I think pubs are having a

particularly hard time at the moment. This might be a mechanism

to do that. What do you say to these people? This is more complex

on whether people buy White Lightning. That is their point.

people buying alalcohol. Online purchase of alcohol is rocketing.

We have parents buying high volume alcohol for children, which isn't

responsible. We will have to wait and see, but the Government are

clearly consuls -- consulting on this and I am sure they will listen

to the farm gate producers. I am a true liberal and believe in open

markets and free markets, why punish the vast majority of law

abiding people, no people must learn to take responsibility for

themselves, and responsibility for their children. It's a lesson they

should learn at school. They should learn it at home. That is easy to

say It is easy to say, if they cross the loin, then they will be

punished. Alison, your colleague Ben Bradshaw doesn't share you view.

He says because it is targeting cheap drink this is penalising the

poorest people. It is not the middle class quaffers of fine

wines: Not all the ciders at the farm gate are cheap. They are good

quality and sometimes organic. Sarah is right. You know, yes, they

will be get scooted up a bit, into the mix, but I am not sure how many

young people turn up at farm gates trying to buy Cheapsideer. John, I

wasn't pointing at you, it is time now for our regular round up of the

political week in 60 seconds. Flooding misery prompts a visit

from the Environment Secretary. Government will spend more than �2

billion on bidding new Flood defences, so properties can be

better proprotected. But still no Government deal with the insurers

to gather protection beyond next summer. Dairy farmers demand better

prices for their milk and get a thumbs up from the high Court for a

badger cull and hold on to your seats. Ann-Marie Morris. Thank you.

Instant fame for the Newton Abbott MP as she steals the show at Prime

Minister's Questions. Will the Prime Minister confirm he will

support a further round of applications this autumn and the

funding is available so business, universities... Obviously a sketch

writers had a field day. A few people commenting on the sketches

said this is serious, she was the woman taking on the braiing

disruptive oppressive at mo fear in the House of Commons. Do you agree

with that? Yes, she came out absolutely fighting and a bit like

a volcano erupting, with great passion, and an Marie I know quite

well and she is normally, a little bit more subdued so she felt

strongly about what she was doing, I have to say that place is a bear

pit. Some times if you are not close to the microphone,

particularly as a woman you find yourself shouting, in order to get

over that baying mob, that is sitting there at Prime Minister's

Questions, mine I have no idea quite what was the driver behind

her on this occasion, but, she certainly made her point. Well, she

did! John, I suppose it was quite arguably a clever way of following

the leader of the opposition, and asking what some might describe as

a congratulatory question. I have to make a confe, I don't want tch V.

It's the first time I have seen it in the studio no now. I think, I

have never met her. I think she is courageous but she will have

learned a lesson. What Alison has just said. When you are going to

ask a question on Prime Minister's Questions you must get yourself

under a microphone. Once you have done that, you know what you are

going to say and you stick to it. It's the job of the speaker to

ensure that everyone is heard. it wasn't the case it was just

people yelling too much? There is plenty of yelling but the Speaker