10/02/2013 Sunday Politics South West

In the South West, will the so- called bedroom tax ease our housing

crisis? And will council plans to cut beach

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2463 seconds

services damage the region's Hello. Why am Martin Oates. Coming

up: Has the male of Torbay -- email of Torbay changed his mind about

tourism? I don't recall saying that. We have

got it on tape. I would like to listen to the Tate, because I don't

recall that. I am joined by Alison Seabeck,

Labour MP, and by the Plymouth MP Robin Teverson. There was some good

news this week in terms of more money for flood defences in the

region, but it leaves this issue of people not being able to get flood

insurance. Many people get it now because a deal was struck between

the previous government and the insurers which runs out in five

months, and it has of being replaced. It is a worry for people

who have been flooded out. I spoke to the Secretary of State last week

and he assures me and others that those negotiations are going on.

The insurance industry is being tough about it. The Government is

determined to get that fixed. Hopefully it will be. In the

meantime, there are many people with white carpets who are

concerned about his. We have had people from the insurance industry

saying these negotiations are we problem. The Government recently

said the negotiations were going swimmingly. The insurance companies

are trying to give away as little as possible. They are putting

residents in a difficult position. The present deal, Alison, was

negotiated in 2008. It was agreed then that it would expire now. DQ

and -- is this a ticking bomb? original deal was that it would be

short term. The insurance companies would not have come to the table it

was a prolonged process. The point is that there are now 200,000

people or more he potentially have homes which cannot be insured after

June this year unless the Government can get the insurance

companies to broker a deal. hope they do. Five months and

counting. The so-called bedroom tax sounds as if it should belong in

the 18th century along with the window tax. David Cameron pointed

out that it is not pay tax at all, but a cut in housing benefit which

many people fear will cause problems for people in the South

West in a few months. It has been the family home for 17

years, but Michelle Kent says a hate -- each a change to housing

benefit called the bedroom tax is leaving her with a stark choice.

Lose out or -- move out or lose cash. This is not about bricks and

mortar. This is my home and I have been here for 17 years. From April,

working-age people in social housing deemed to have spare rooms

will get less housing benefit. Disabilities mean that Michelle

Clark work, but her home has three bedrooms and anyone of her three

children lives at home, so she will lose about �12 a week. I feel that

making somebody find some money from the bare minimum of what they

have got in the first place, I did then that is fair on anybody.

-- I did think that is fair. change, the Government claims, will

bring fairness back into the system. For two weeks, this has been under

scrutiny at PMQs, with Alison Seabeck raising the case of a

constituent whose son in the armed forces might not have a bedroom

when he comes home. There are many people in private rented

accommodation who don't have housing benefit and cannot afford

extra bedrooms, and we have to get control of housing benefit. We are

spending �23 billion on housing benefit, and we have to get back

under control. Critics argue that although the Government might be

right to tackle the housing benefit bill, this policy is not the right

way to do it, as there is simply not the social housing available

for people to downsize to. How can it possibly may sense to force

people into a situation where they cost the state more, not less, by

moving into the private rental sector?

The councillor in charge of housing in Cornwall echoes the Cup -- these

concerns. The bedroom tax will hit the people who need housing and

those people on low incomes. It will not deliver what the

Government wanted to deliver, which is for people to downsize. There

are not enough houses for people to downsize in tea. Michelle showed me

her third bedroom. You can see how small this is. Hair MP suggested

she could take in a lodger to cover her costs. Michelle thinks this is

ridiculous. Sarah Newton acknowledges that every case is

different. Cornwall council this financial year will be getting just

under �900,000, so where there are people who can't move, especially

people with disabilities to need a spare room, foster-parents, they

actually can have helped if they can't afford to make it up.

Government says the changes are not about forcing people to move, and

that it is expected most people will find a way to make up the

shortfall. With other welfare reform is about to a factor as well,

Michelle says that sometimes it is not that simple. The difference

with this is that it does not affect everybody, so those that he

desired effect cannot see what is going on and cannot see what it is

doing to people like me. Robin, you are a councillor in

Cornwall. Do you agree with your fellow councillor in that package

that it will be a problem to find smaller properties? Mark Kaczmarek

has a fair bit of knowledge about that. It is not quite as simple

about it -- as simple as that. We do have a small stock of social

housing. The Labour Party reduced the social housing stock by nearly

500,000 units. We have to live with that at the moment, though. Exactly.

That is why we need to use the current stock more effectively. We

do not have a lot of social housing being built. What we have to do is

try to make sure we have some mobility within that market, like

it is in the private sector. It the real problem is the 5 million

people nationwide that are on waiting lists, not even in houses

at the minute, but we have to help the one see what they're at the

moment. You talk about moving into the private sector. Ed Miliband

said it would be a bad thing to happen. He may be prejudiced

against the private sector... might be more expensive, which

would defeat the object, he is think. No, what we're trying to do

here, the object is, and it is a difficult process, because the

amount of investment in housing stock by the last government has

been minimal, is that we have to try to get the stock that we have

got working better, which means that the one million or so bedrooms

that are out there can provide better value for tax paper --

taxpayers. So Robin is saying that this is part of the inheritance

from the Labour Party. Also, he seems to be saying that if people

move into the private sector, this is part of the solution. This is

not part of the solution. We need more homes. Everyone is agreed on

that. The point about the private sector is that if more people are

beginning to the private sector, and I know because I met some

landlords in the South West recently, there are simply not the

private properties in the private sector either. So what you do is

put pressure on the private sector which means that prices go up

because there is a scarcity, housing benefit comes in for others

at a different level, and the housing benefit bill will continue

to rise. We have seen this in London where there is pressure on

the private sector. This is not the solution. It is a ham-fisted

attempt by the Government and it is hurting people. As the woman said

in the film, this is not just about the bedroom tax, but about council

tax benefit changes which will also hit the working poor, and they are

simply saying to me, why is David Cameron doing this to people like

us? What about the people who have their houses, Alison? It is all

about people you are lucky enough, they're all sort of challenge is

there, but there is a whole raft of people who cannot afford housing at

all and have no prospect of housing at all. That was the last

Government's doing. No, it wasn't. The social housing budget was cut

almost in half by Eric Pickles, so the blame for the lack of

building... 400,000 less social housing units in stock at the end

of the Labour government than at the beginning. That is a fact.

are putting the right to buy issue into the debate. The point is that

more houses that get build that -- that were built under the last

Labour government they are being built now. We were up to 210,000

houses a year. We need 250, and it was on an upward trend. We are now

seeing more homeless people, fewer planning applications. This

government is not building houses. Nationally, during the period of

the Labour government, there were no more than three digits, it never

got into the thousands of council houses that were built. Should

people be in bigger houses than they need? It is wasteful, isn't

it? No. We need to look at people occupy their homes, clearly. We

have a different mindset. The lady on the film, when she took her home,

it was her home for life. If you are starting to rent from scratch

now, you would say to people, this is your home, but we may need to

look at how will you cannot abide and if you need all your dreams. It

is really difficult to suddenly draw a line in the sand and say,

sorry, that is not your home any more and you cannot have your son

or your carer to come and stay. Disability and carers, that's

allowed, and foster parents as well. With respect, if you look at my

caseload and the people you are getting advice, and I have had

advice from Lord Freud himself about some of these people,

including the lady with the sun in the armed forces, it is entirely

contradictory. People need clarity and they are not getting it, and

some people are genuinely frightened that they will lose

their homes. Pensioners are excluded from this, people with

Careys and those who are foster- parents. We must move on.

Councils and coats, and all too familiar refrain, especially at

this time of year. -- councils and cuts. Torbay has the region's an

elected Mayor and has cut �10 million to balance the books. --

only elected Mayor. It has been a while since Torbay

was the destination of choice when it came to summer holidays. Glamour

may have faded from the English Riviera, but tourism is still its

most important business. No wonder that eyebrows were raised when the

Mayor announced a series of money- saving measures. The Tourist

Information Centre in Paignton will close for good, and on the beaches,

the day's blue flags might be removed for ever. I am not a local,

but I have been coming here for 10 years, and I live here now. I think

they drive people away, because people would come here. On the face

of it, 142,000 hand-cut in beach cleaning might seem like small beer,

given the cuts elsewhere. But many believe that tourism is the goose

that lays Torbay's golden egg. During the mayoral election

campaign, Gordon Oliver told the Sunday Politics that Torbay needed

to promote tourism a lot more. of the poorest regions in Europe...

I don't recall saying that. I didn't say that, but in Europe. I

would like his is an to the Tate. - - I would like to listen to the

tape. We are now one of the poorest

regions in Europe, yet be a Britain's second biggest holiday

resort. We need to market the be a lot more. There are many things

left undone. But Torbay is now faced with cuts

of �10 million. It seems the May a's approach has changed. We may

have our own local protocol which we can promote in end of the more

efficient way instead of paying out substantial sums for the Blue Flags.

There are other ways of doing these things, but it has not been to say

that there is a negative aspect to it. Torbay is not alone when it

comes to facing tough decisions. Cornwall's councillors on the verge

of pulling funding for this magnificent stately home. Just when

they thought it could not get any worse, local authorities in the

region are being asked to stump up thousands of pounds for essential

repairs to the South West Coast Path. If the current level of cuts

continues, by 2020, we will be able to do nothing but our statutory

duties, and that means we won't be able to support the local economy

to improve jobs and tourism in important parts of the country such

as Cornwall and Torbay. Central government is unlikely to offer any

sympathy, let alone financial help. What kind of abysmal, philistine,

reactionary government puts dispense above library books?

people who are putting distance above those things are people who

care about the General Service for the electorate. I have to say, the

honourable gentleman is a bit of a luvvie, so no doubt he is looking

very intensely at the drop in culture. Matthew Clarke could

easily be described as a lovely. He runs a bookshop and his chairman of

the Paignton Business Improvement District. He is warning councillors

to tread carefully. The real problem is that when you win an

award, like the Blue Flag, and then it is taken away, the publicity can

damage the reputation of an area. Curtin beach services might not be

the hardest decision Torbay's councillors face next week, but

given the importance of tourism to the day, some fear the long-term

economic consequences. We asked Gordon Oliver to join us

on the programme. He was unavailable, but we are pleased to

welcome Councillor Chris Lewis, one of his height of -- right-hand men.

He seemed to change his mind a lot, a your boss. Tourism is our in the

front line for cuts. What we have done is put a lot of money into

tourism in the last two years while he has been male. He pledged to

defend �50,000, which we have spent two about the day. During the

Olympics we had adverts on the Tube. We went to the Midlands and

promoted their. One of the problems is that a lot of people don't

actually know what Torbay years or what it has to offer. We have been

at their promoting it, promoted events. When the Olympic torch came,

it came through a 0.5 miles in Torbay. We had an enormous turnout

of 100,000 people. -- 8.5 miles. But Blue Flag beaches, that is a

benchmark which is well known everywhere, and you are throwing

away. You say that, but we are negotiating a to keep the blue flag

status. One of the criteria of is that you have to have somebody

there from the council to man the beach. We are doing that during the

summer months, during school holidays, but let me tell you that

I am a councillor near one of the best beaches in Torbay. We have not

had a blue flag there for two years. The numbers have not gone down.

People don't visit beaches because they are blue flags. There are lots

of brilliant beaches across the country which don't have blue flags.

We lost it because they came and inspected it on a date that we have

had enormous range, and the water did not come up to the normal

standard. That was one day. I think the blue flag is a bit of a red

herring. But councils make a huge fuss about it when they get it, and

there's a lot of bad publicity about it when they use it. I don't

think we get back because of -- bad publicity. What we need to do is

promote Torbay and get people coming their from the Midlands and

other areas, driving down. That's what we need, people coming to

Torbay. I don't think they make a judgment on the blue flag, but on

other things which Gordon Oliver as Mayer is starting to do. The

promenade needed a lot of work doing to it. We need more events.

Can I just brink Robin in. There are a lot of prominent blue Flag

beaches in Cornwall. Councils to trumpet this when beaches get Blue

Flag status. Is it pointless? it is pointless. It is part of a

tourism offer. I don't think it is as high-profile as it once was. Now

we have sorted out problems with sewage going out into the sea, it

is important. We are the premiere tourist area of the UK, and we're

proud to be so. But I would say that there are many of your beaches

in Cornwall that don't have the blue flag but still attract

enormous numbers of holidaymakers, and tourist strip. We keep the are

the ones to ourselves! Places like St Ives and other resorts do have

them. Can I bring Dalacin in, because there is this broader issue

of cuts to tourism. There are all sorts of complicated issues at the

moment, particularly for councils like Torbay and Plymouth who are

poorer councils with severe needs of one sort or another. There --

they are making difficult decisions. Plymouth has decided that tourism

is important and they are going to keep the investment they have got

to in tourism. Mount Edgecombe is now a potentially using one of its

main backers. That is a debate we need to have in Plymouth. That is

the end of this debate. Thank you very much.

Time now for our round-up of the Fishing reform takes a big step

forward as the European Parliament votes to rent discards in less than

one year. I think predominantly, a move in this direction has got to

be good. Dorset's first Police Commissioner

explains why he is putting up council tax. If we don't bring new

police officers in, we will be on the thin edge, and that is why am

asking the people of also to give 1p per day.

Some MPs say the 8.5 billion -- �8.5 million pot for rural councils

is not big enough. Weymouth council is looking for a Big Society

solution to save the town's Pavilion. The model which we have

where we put all the shows and sell the tickets and to all the

advertising, all of that, that is not sustainable. And this charity

for the homeless in St Austell is the first Cornish winner of the

Prime Minister's BID Society award. Robin, it is true that the

coalition is not closing the funding act in rural areas, that is

embarrassing for people like you. Yes, it would be wrong and

embarrassing. At the moment, it is widening, and I don't defend it.

Although Torbay and Plymouth do not have -- have their issues, rural

areas have about half the funding of their bin areas. The Labour

Party is banging on about Northern cities not getting enough money at

the moment. The funding reform is very complex, and I can remember

working for a local government minister in government when we did

into cheese sparsity into the process -- introduce sparsity into

the process. The revolt case is being made very loud and clear. I